--- Log opened Sun Jan 23 00:00:10 2011
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00:06 < fenn> omg it uses eval()
00:08 < fenn> oh, btw i'm talking about http://www.linux.com/community/blogs/python-stl-model-loading-and-display-with-opengl.html?blogger=Oliver+Marks
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01:53 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/irc/screenshot.png
01:53 < fenn> ok so i just need to see if this works on gnusha now
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01:56 < Lukas_> Good morning
01:56 < fenn> hm, need python-opengl and probably pygame and osmesa
02:01 < fenn> and imagemagick too. pleases and thanks yous
02:01 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/irc/stl_viewer.py
02:04 < fenn> oh, pygame specifically depends on x11
02:04 < fenn> blah
02:05 < fenn> also note that my crappy hack rotates in two axes :)
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02:39 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone.
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02:51 < Lukas_> Good morning
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03:06 < ferrouswheel> kanzure - the full time workers are the 6 (soon 7) person group working in Hong Kong that I'm the team leader for. I relocated from New Zealand for it, even though the pay is relatively crappy.
03:06 < ferrouswheel> 2 of them are from Xiamen.
03:12 < Lukas_> full time workers?
03:17 < JayDugger> ferrouswheel, what project do you discuss?
03:23 < ferrouswheel> JayDugger: project in Hong Kong using OpenCog to create intelligent game characters.
03:25 < ferrouswheel> Lukas_: in that we get to spend all our time working on OpenCog and intelligent agents - for a long time we'd been only doing OpenCog stuff part time or in our own free time.
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03:25 < Lukas_> interesting
03:28 < Lukas_> How is it progressing?
03:29 < ferrouswheel> we have a simple game world which we're building upon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SHQvw0j6Kk
03:30 < ferrouswheel> but most of the work is focussed on the back end at the moment, since that's the core of our project (that video was the result of a single person working on it)
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05:51 < kanzure> http://fennetic.net/irc/screenshot.png looks almost as bad as the povray output
05:52 < kanzure> libosmesa6 is now installed
05:52 < kanzure> why don't you have root or sudo
05:59 < Lukas_> Morning Kanzure
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07:22 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone.
07:33 < Lukas_> Good morning
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09:07 < kanzure> igniteamherst february 8th will have a talk on diybio called 'The past, present, and future of making stuff through biology'
09:09 < Lukas_> thanks
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09:38 < Lukas_> Kanzure, do you have a general price has to how much starting a DIYbio lab would cost (just equipment)?
09:41 < kanzure> meh at most a few grand
09:45 < Lukas_> few: 2,5, 10?
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10:16 < archels> Depends on what you would want to do, I guess?
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10:24 < kanzure> thingiview.js http://replimat.com/thingiview/examples/ (uses three.js)
10:31 < kanzure> is broken on my phone
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11:32 < AlonzoTG> om
11:32 < kanzure> how about this? http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/stl2pov/dremelfuge.png
11:32 < kanzure> letters are all flipped around incorrectly...
11:36 < kanzure> the x-axis label is in the wrong spot, unless it's labeling the x-axis itself (which is red)
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12:34 < kanzure> huh it occurs to me that the character 'z' is all wrong on thingiverse http://www.thingiverse.com/image:22440
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12:55 < kanzure> compare!
12:55 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/stl2pov/dremelfuge.png
12:55 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/stl2pov/dremelfuge2.png
13:09 < kanzure> ughh
13:10 < kanzure> kartik wants the grand prize to be for non-open source... ughh
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13:10 < Lukas__> Kartik?
13:14 < kanzure> what's the point of requiring "monthly blogging of contestants' progress" if they are not required to publish schematics, source code, or other actually useful details?
13:14 < kanzure> what's worse is that forrest higgs was the one suggesting this..
13:25 < Lukas__> Did the contest already begin?
13:39 < kanzure> Lukas__: has for a year..
13:39 < kanzure> fenn: my solution to the gada prize nonsense; an extra clause in the GPL license, or a secondary license to apply with it, for whether or not derivatives can be submitted to the gada prize, or if derivatives-with-prize-sharing are allowed, or what.
13:43 < AlonzoTG> .
13:51 < kanzure> I guess including a "no derivatives in the gada prize" would make it "not quite GPL" but after the prize is over, that extra license wouldn't matter
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14:17 < kanzure> http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/58049-guys-i-need-your-help-exploring-plasmid-based-dna-mod-humans.html
14:17 < kanzure> "Hey guys, I need a bit of help here. My friends and I are exploring a temporary genetic modification by introducing a plasmid into our cells ( I am currently unsure of whether or not we will be using an AAV vector)."
14:17 < kanzure> "Should things go well, we will attempt to work towards a more permanent modification, though I am currently unsure of what form it will take."
14:17 < kanzure> "Here is our main problem - the immune system. If we introduce the plasmid, and it makes its way into the nucleus, any protein it produces will be instantly zerged by the immune system, effectively killing us in the process or at best severely damaging our tissue. I'd like to avoid that happening."
14:18 < kanzure> heh "Cause I mean, surely an educated biochemist would have better resources of information than a fairly low population gaming forum."
14:19 < Lukas__> XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
14:19 < Lukas__> 20+ rep points for finding that
14:19 < Lukas__> (I was hoping you wouldn't)
14:20 < kanzure> I SEE EVERYTHING incl. my ass
14:20 < QuantumG> hard to miss it
14:21 < Lukas__> *FACEPALM*
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14:22 < Lukas__> Anyway, in the issuing shit storm I managed to get someone interested in DIYbio
14:22 < Lukas__> which was worth it IMO
14:23 < kanzure> ensuing
14:25 < Lukas__> ensuing
14:25 < Lukas__> thank you
14:25 < Lukas__> I need to get off the computer and actually write something with my hands
14:27 < kanzure> eh.. http://f.cl.ly/items/1g1q1D3T3h0i0u3n332X/grinder2-01.png
14:28 < Lukas__> yup, what about it?
14:29 < kanzure> conspiracy theories are way overblown
14:30 < Lukas__> conspiracy theories?
14:58 < kanzure> on "khannea suntzu"'s blog she lists faye kane next to eliezer yudkowsky and ben goertzel.. nice?
14:59 < Lukas__> What did you mean by conspiracy theories?
14:59 < kanzure> it's not a conversation if i have to have both sides of it
15:00 < kanzure> the "mythical eye".. way overplayed
15:01 < Lukas__> I think they were just going for a cool factor
15:06 < Lukas__> Do you suggest something else?
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15:10 < kanzure> ha the biohack.me people are super-defensive "Well, we don't want to use any other community because I put a lot of time into this one, so we're not about to let you poach this." oh please..
15:10 < kanzure> i don't need this bullshit drama
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15:13 < kanzure> lichen: i just got a super-drama-inducing email from the biohack.me person..
15:14 < kanzure> On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Sovereign Bleak <sovereign.bleak@biohack.me> wrote:
15:14 < kanzure> >     Thanks Bryan, we dig you! Stop by the forums and say hello.
15:14 < kanzure> me: no i refuse to use yet another silo. Please join the broader community.
15:14 < kanzure> sovereignbleak: "Bullshit. A broader community is not an IRC channel and repo with zero media attention. I worked hard to put us where we are and you're not about to poach us with false overtures of kindness."
15:14 < kanzure> me: "Oh please. An IRC channel isn't the broader community, and I was never claiming otherwise."
15:14 < kanzure> didn't know how to write a better response
15:14 < Lukas__> O.O
15:14 < Lukas__> are you kidding me?
15:15 < kanzure> i'd like to minimize the drama so i'm just going to say i don't care
15:15 < Lukas__> err
15:15 < Lukas__> this will be take care of
15:16 < Lukas__> taken*
15:18 < lichen> kanzure: wat
15:25 < lichen> kanzure: ill see what i can do
15:25 < lichen> infighting is fucking dumb
15:25 < lichen> but i also dont think shutting down biohack.me is the answer
15:25 < kanzure> i didn't suggest that
15:26 < lichen> k
15:26 < kanzure> but creating new silos isn't particularly cool.. why not join diybio?
15:27 < lichen> silo?
15:31 < Lukas__> separate, isolated groups
15:31 < lichen> ah
15:31 < lichen> i dont think any of this should be isolated
15:31 < Lukas__> Neither do I
15:31 < lichen> biohack.me just hasnt really been assimilated into the rest of the community since its largely a bunch of people who found each other without any knowledge of the rest of the community
15:32 < kanzure> exactly
15:32 < Lukas__> sounds about right
15:32 < lichen> i dont really see sovereign doing much to help join the community with the larger activities going on
15:33 < lichen> im not sure he realizes things have been going on prior to biohack.me
15:33  * lichen shrugs
15:33 < kanzure> sounds like a reasonable assessment to me (including the shrug)
15:33 < lichen> in either case, the irc channel i'm running isn't directly associated with that site, and isn't meant to be a replacement or in competition to the existing areas of discussion
15:33 < lichen> it's just a much more laid back place to talk than here, i guess
15:33 < lichen> from my idling
15:34 < lichen> i'll stick around here but i don't have much to add usually
15:36 < Lukas__> I believe there is some value of maintaining biohack.me - there is nothing wrong with the some 'friendly competition'  ( but the shit talking needs to go)
15:36 < lichen> yeah
15:36 < lichen> if everything gets tied into the same websites/framework/community then it gets a little bit too incestual
15:37 < Lukas__> yea
15:37 < strages> there's nothing wrong with there being multiple communities, especially if they're all open.  cross pollinated and make new things
15:37 < lichen> yeah
15:37 < Lukas__> yup
15:38 < lichen> thus why i'm keeping #biohack open
15:38 < lichen> despite other irc channels being around
15:38 < strages> having a non-ditributed community only brings about stagnation
15:38 < Lukas__> again, agreed
15:39 < strages> I'm just offering constructive thoughts
15:39 < Lukas__> sorry, I didn't intend to say you weren't
15:40 < Lukas__> I am just glad we are thinking along the same lines
15:40 < strages> no worries
15:41 < Lukas__> there needs to be a little more competition IMO, the open source is excellent for creating different forms of the same tech (since people can freely tinker), but I think a little 'racing' will get more people moving
15:41 < lichen> from what i'm seeing
15:41 < lichen> #biohack and biohack.me are built more about the low-tech (grinding) end of transhumanism
15:42 < lichen> this one seems to be a lot more involved
15:42 < strages> where is #biohack?
15:42 < lichen> irc.wutnet.net
15:42 < strages> k
15:43 < lichen> i made it like... a week and a half ago
15:43 < lichen> the channel, that is
15:43 < strages> why that network?
15:43 < lichen> because i'm a services operator on it
15:43 < strages> k
15:43 < lichen> and my friend owns the network
15:43 < Lukas__> that makes sense
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15:48 < Lukas__> Lichen, what is your name at biohack.me?
15:49 < lichen> lichen
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15:52 < Lukas__> I sent you a pm
15:52 < lichen> you know you could have just pmed me here
15:54 < Lukas__> ...
15:54 < Lukas__> as you can see, I am a newb
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16:31 < kanzure> fenn: you have sudo now
16:31 < kanzure> does openscad do headless yet?
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17:36 < gnusha> 1d471353fb76a7b91b15bb9e7ffe3d20f77f6a1e
17:38 < gnusha> 0f680a96846f7b093548192b5929c483b863392b
17:38 < gnusha> 0f680a96846f7b093548192b5929c483b863392b
17:38 < gnusha> 0f680a96846f7b093548192b5929c483b863392b
17:39 < kanzure> hrm that's not good
17:39 < kanzure> why would the tree be different?
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18:08 < gnusha> 439e561b429f6601a0172c15a1727856279f778d
18:09 < kanzure> hrm
18:09 < gnusha> 8fa05a87b8c7b762395604053f9af422d85b522c
18:09 < gnusha> 8fa05a87b8c7b762395604053f9af422d85b522c
18:09 < gnusha> 8fa05a87b8c7b762395604053f9af422d85b522c
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19:58 < kanzure> hi SovereignBleak
19:59 < kanzure> SovereignBleak: have you been to biologigaragen or the other hackerspace in your area?
20:06 < SovereignBleak> kanzure: I haven't, no. Are we cool man?
20:07 < kanzure> if you're going to attack me, no
20:08 < kanzure> otherwise sure
20:08 < SovereignBleak> I hope not. Just got a little thrown off by the email is all.
20:10 < kanzure> SovereignBleak: lichen made some comments in the backlog http://gnusha.org/logs/2011-01-23.log
20:11 < lichen> we've already discussed it
20:12 < kanzure> well, good work then
20:14 < SovereignBleak> kanzure: Okay, read through. I think lichen's last comments in the log covers it. We're definitely more about the low-tech, right-now-what-can-we-shove-into-ourselves stuff. I have no problem with cross pollination and I don't think there needs to be. I'd rather not have us brushed off as "another silo" not worth anyone's attention however.
20:15 < kanzure> diybio is also about low-tech
20:15 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio
20:15 < kanzure> http://bit.ly/diybionews ("no publicity" what?)
20:17 < SovereignBleak> kanzure: I'm not really seeing the stuff we're working on in there. Many of us are total amateurs getting by on whatever we can scrounge and I think we serve that appeal. Lepht's a strong example of that ethic.
20:18 < kanzure> diybio is like that too, except with some caution and anesthetic
20:18 < kanzure> i think you're just posturing
20:19 < SovereignBleak> kanzure: To me, that kind of language is super inflammatory. Let's be respectful here. I don't think that's fair to say.
20:19 < kanzure> "many of us are total amateurs" implying that everyone else is not? come on..
20:20 < kanzure> flattering but strange
20:20 < kanzure> was the anesthetic comment unfair?
20:22 < SovereignBleak> No, the posturing comment. kanzure, I think the only way we're going to get out of this without inflaming this is to agree-to-disagree. I don't want us to be enemies.
20:23 < kanzure> so you're disagreeing that diy bio/diybiohacking is amateur biohacking?
20:24 < lichen> i think what SovereignBleak is saying
20:24 < lichen> is that the community of biohack.me is closer related to body modding and piercing
20:24 < lichen> than low budget hard science
20:24 < SovereignBleak> I'd be inclined to agree.
20:25 < lichen> not that there's no overlap
20:25 < lichen> just a tendency of the community
20:25 < kanzure> i see.
20:30 < SovereignBleak> Okay, 5:30am, I have got to get some sleep. I love that anyone out there is doing the stuff we're doing and I think if we can avoid any shit talking (don't follow my example) we'll both do just fine.
20:31 < kanzure> ok
20:31 < kanzure> night
20:31 < SovereignBleak> Goodnight.
20:31  * kanzure added http://diyhpl.us:9000/s/george-whitesides-a-lab-the-size-of-a-postage-stamp
20:33 < lichen> why'd you dcc me sov
20:35 < SovereignBleak> Wanted to thank you for helping us come to a resolution. Okay, that's the last line I'll write for the night.
20:35 < lichen> ok
20:35 < lichen> good night sov
20:35 < SovereignBleak> Night.
20:42 < fenn> why is it called "grinding"? is it actually called that? does anyone self-identify as a grinder?
20:44 < kanzure> http://grinding.be/
20:44 < fenn> that's just a tech/transhumanist blog with occasional body mod articles
20:44 < kanzure> lichen: ping
20:44 < lichen> pong
20:45 < kanzure> yay the pingcon works maybe you know the answer for fenn
20:45 < lichen> its from the comic dr. sleepless i think
20:45 < lichen> there's a group of people called the grinders
20:45 < kanzure> doktor sleepless
20:45 < lichen> who are body modders
20:45 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doktor_Sleepless
20:45 < lichen> so grinding was picked up as a term for diy transhumanism
20:46 < lichen> ive never read the comicf
20:46 < lichen> i like the term though
20:46 < fenn> why are they called grinders?
20:46 < lichen> >ive never read the comic
20:46 < fenn> it makes me think of repetitive video games
20:46 < ybit> sí
20:47 < ybit> same here
20:48 < lichen> yeah i dont play mmos
20:48 < fenn> "By the eighth issue, he has claimed that the world is merely a source of food for a race of tenth-dimensional animals (based on the Cthulhu Mythos stories) that feed on souls and live in a realm similar to Heaven; he claims these creatures killed his parents and that while he originally wanted to organise people against these creatures, he now just wants to kill the whole world to spite the monsters by starving them."
20:51 < kanzure> urghh i'm going to have to recompile openscad aren't i
20:51 < kanzure> this is stupid
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20:52 < delinquentme> kanzure, you have anything on the gibson method offhand?
20:52 < delinquentme> as related to PCR / thermocycling
20:53 < kanzure> for ligating dna?
20:53 < kanzure> http://2010.igem.org/Team:Cambridge/Gibson/Protocol
20:54 < delinquentme> haha amazing
20:55 < fenn> based on various conversations i've overheard, there's a lot of picky little things that can go wrong that aren't in that protocol
20:56 < kanzure> like any other protocol?
20:56 < fenn> apparently the master mix is very sensitive to tiny changes in concentration
20:56 < fenn> so you have to make a huge batch of it
20:56 < fenn> (which gets expensive quick)
20:58 < kanzure> timschmidt: is there a headless openscad?
20:58 < fenn> it's probably worth getting someone to download the original paper http://www.nature.com/nmeth/journal/v6/n5/full/nmeth.1318.html
20:59 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/venter/Enzymatic%20assembly%20of%20DNA%20molecules%20up%20to%20several%20hundred%20kilobases.pdf
20:59 < kanzure> there.
20:59 < kanzure> on another note, that's not venter is it?
20:59 < kanzure> iirc gibson works for venter?
20:59 < kanzure> oh venter is listed as a coauthor in the middle
21:01 < delinquentme> thats the way it looks from the paper
21:01 < delinquentme> gibson is @ the jcraig venter institute
21:05 < delinquentme> damn thermo fisher is a big player in the research market huh
21:06 < kanzure> and sigma-aldrich, merk, carolina biosciences, etc.
21:08 < kanzure> why does openscad depend on libglu1-xorg
21:08 < delinquentme> merck no?
21:09 < kanzure> merck
21:09 < delinquentme> theres a TF building here in pitt .. walk past it quite often .. lovely place .. and would be wild to work there
21:10 < delinquentme> but i dont think they're looking for someone to stir things up
21:10 < delinquentme> id imagine very much so .. standardized operations
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21:28 < kanzure> jrayhawk: do you have any suggestions for how i should deal with openscad?
21:28 < kanzure> it is heavily dependent on qt4 and other gui madness
21:28 < kanzure> should i break down and install xorg on gnusha? :/ or fail to support openscad files
21:28 < kanzure> i'm inclined to not support .scad in spite
21:33 < fenn> today's fun phyics fact: the planck mass expressed as energy is equivalent to 15 gallons of gasoline
21:34 < kanzure> peak planck?
21:35 < kanzure> you read it here first
21:35 < kanzure> 10^70 years before anyone else
21:37 < fenn> eventually we're going to run out of mass to fuse
21:37 < fenn> after accellerating a significant fraction of the universe back towards the center, of course
21:41 < kanzure> should i make an extra effort (right now) to support openscad?
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22:02 < kanzure> fascinating.. i think all of my iges2png and step2png scripts require xorg
22:02 < kanzure> i don't want to encourage users to be committing stl files
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--- Log closed Mon Jan 24 00:00:10 2011