--- Log opened Thu Feb 03 00:00:10 2011
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03:39 < Utopiah> "Following the buyout of a bankrupt biotech company, I'm selling lab equipments and reagents... at BARGAIN PRICES." http://twitter.com/#!/emmanuel_2m/status/33108717247406080
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03:59 < ENKI-][> Utopiah: http://reviewfix.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/reanimator.jpg ?
04:07 < Utopiah> I think it's from http://www.manros-therapeutics.com
04:08 < Utopiah> http://fr.linkedin.com/in/edemaistre says he is (was?) co-founder
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07:49  * AlonzoTG is itching for a new electronics project,
07:59  * ThomasEgi is ordering parts for a new one :P
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08:24 < kanzure> hi Director_X
08:24 < kanzure> please tells us about your belly caps
08:25 < Director_X> lol
08:25 < Director_X> project IX
08:25 < Director_X> failed
08:26 < Director_X> I had a former employee who was going to try it out, but he backed out
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08:38 < kanzure> hi pseudotoob
08:38 < pseudotoob> pseudotoob
08:38 < kanzure> oh you're probably ENKI-]['s worse half
08:39 < ENKI-][> he doesn't speak unless spoken to
08:39 < ENKI-][> i can mute this one entirely
08:39 < ENKI-][> horray for markovsky codebase, eh?
08:44 < Director_X> thanks for bringing that up kanzure.  I think I'll start the project up again and test it out on my cat.
08:48 < ThomasEgi> Director_X, ... what project^?
08:48 < ThomasEgi> btw.. testing on animals is meany.
08:48 < ENKI-][> i'm glad that some of you aren't shy about unauthorized animal experimentation
08:48 < ENKI-][> does this involve vivisection?
08:48 < Director_X> it was an experiment to try to short circuit a taser
08:49 < Director_X> it is in the name of science
08:49 < ThomasEgi> Director_X, wear conductive clothing
08:49 < ThomasEgi> anything else wont work
08:50 < ThomasEgi> the name of scienec doesnt justify unncessary torture.
08:50 < Director_X> you don't think a latice of wires would short the taser?
08:51 < ThomasEgi> if it's dense enough. it will
08:52 < kanzure> microgrants platform for diybio http://www.rwjf.org/files/research/69748breakthroughstocures.pdf
08:52 < Director_X> I thought the caps might be good to attatch just in case the wires couldn't handle the voltage.  not sure if that is sound thinking though
08:52 < ThomasEgi> capacitors are 100% useless here
08:53 < Director_X> I'm joking about the cat btw.
08:53 < ENKI-][> don't make your conductive clothing out of steel wool
08:53 < kanzure> i should be more specific; that pdf recommends a microgrants platform for diybio be created
08:54 < Director_X> brb
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09:39 < ThomasEgi> Director_X, conductive surface, and , if possible. isolation towards your body.
09:39 < ThomasEgi> no caps no nothing. just plain old metal
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09:42 < Director_X> thanks ThomasEgi.
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09:52 < Director_X> Hey ThomasEgi, are you an electrical engineer by chance?
09:53 < ThomasEgi> indeed i am
09:54 < ThomasEgi> altho not yet graduated. but that doesnt really matter^
09:55 < Director_X> any guesses on this phenomenon?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY745NxZwsY&feature=related
09:59 < ThomasEgi> well. there are several effects
10:00 < ThomasEgi> there's the skin effects. where high frequency AC dont only penetrate into conductors to a certain depth,
10:00 < ThomasEgi> that would not work for regular grid-ac tho. i guess you simply need dry skin to not fry yourself
10:00 < ThomasEgi> in any case..
10:00 < ThomasEgi> DONT TRY AT HOME
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10:17 < Director_X> There has to be some kind of stage magic going on there.  He puts that thing in his mouth, next to all of those dental nerves, and doesn't flinch.
10:24 < ThomasEgi> he does that when connecting the 2 wires.
10:25 < ThomasEgi> electricity always takes the path of least resistance. and why flowing over nerves when there is a nice piece of metal?
10:31 < Utopiah> Neuroscience: Browsing and the brain http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v470/n7332/full/470037a.html (no pdf :/
10:32 < ENKI-][> http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20110203.gif
10:33 < Director_X> i don't know man.  I think the guy is a human capacitor.
10:33 < kanzure> Utopiah: do you want the pdf
10:33 < ThomasEgi> Director_X, you can think what you want. but please dont try to bend physics with your imagination
10:33 < Utopiah> kanzure: yes, cant find it
10:34 < kanzure> phreedom: i really can't do everything on my own,
10:34 < kanzure> but a pyscholar irc bot would be realllly handy right about now
10:34 < kanzure> !fetch http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v470/n7332/full/470037a.html
10:38 < Director_X> lol.  I think the laws of physics are safe.
10:40 < ThomasEgi> then you have to accept the fact that a human body's not a capacitor (at least not to a extend you may wish for it)
10:44 < ENKI-][> kanzure: i hear you're playing with android. have you run into any trouble with the emulator? the binary was set up to work only with a particular version of glibc, and i'm refusing to recompile glibc just to get it working
10:46 < Director_X> umm...humans are conductive and do have some capacitance, but I think I get what you are saying
10:47 < ENKI-][> hm
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10:50 < ENKI-][> does your pyscholar thing output the text of papers as ascii, or does it just do abstracts and links
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10:59 < kanzure> ENKI-][: pyscholar is supposed to be like zotero except not built into a browser
10:59 < kanzure> it doesn't work at the moment and requires a developer (probably me, but i don't have time today)
11:08 < ENKI-][> kanzure: do you think it's feasible to get a bot to search locally-hosted documentation effectively given more or less freeform queries that it attempts to match semantically?
11:09 < ENKI-][> like, compute semantic distance and rank by that?
11:09 < ENKI-][> compute semantic distance for everything in the chatlogs and then for everything in the docs
11:11 < kanzure> not really- the semantic relevancy of terms surrounding a link to a pdf in this chatroom might not be appropriate since we don't always/consistently talk about the paper in question
11:11 < kanzure> maybe if the bot was paired up with mendeley or something
11:16 < timschmidt> well, reprap-dev and reprap-admin have been interesting lately
11:18 < timschmidt> probably didn't advance your cause any though, kanzure
11:18 < timschmidt> :-/
11:18 < kanzure> what didn't advance my cause?
11:19 < timschmidt> the recent bickering on the various reprap lists
11:20 < timschmidt> lots of people upset at the thought the developing their pet projects in the open would be good for RepRap
11:21 < timschmidt> either 1: because they'd like to make money from it first, or 2: because they just don't want to
11:21 < timschmidt> it's been interesting
11:21 < timschmidt> and no lack of similar motivations on the opposing side
11:21 < kanzure> it's probably just that they don't understand how this will all work out
11:22 < timschmidt> how so?
11:22 < kanzure> if you want interesting, there's been a huge thread on the thingiverse mailing list about future features and crap objects on thingiverse.com
11:22 < timschmidt> orly?
11:22 < kanzure> timschmidt: there's the usual misunderstandings about GPL, but bringing it into the hardware world generates even more misunderstanding and opportunities for education
11:22 < kanzure> for instance, "YOU MUST RELEASE NO MATTER WHAT!!" versus "you must release with your distributions" versus "you must release even if i don't buy from you"
11:23 < timschmidt> yes, there's some of that, but more of 'no one cares about what I'm doing, it can't possibly be relevant to anyone else's interests'
11:24 < timschmidt> and just recently I said "Source availability not only matters, it's crucial to the advancement of the community."
11:25 < timschmidt> which was followed up with "I think that you need to accept that that is your opinion and that it isn't anything resembling an article of faith within the Reprap community.
11:25 < timschmidt> Raising your opinion to the level of some sort of technological Sharia law simply isn't acceptable."
11:25 < timschmidt> which is awesome
11:25 < timschmidt> argument's over now though
11:25 < timschmidt> please don't get involved
11:25  * timschmidt is just reporting past events
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11:37 < kanzure> timschmidt: sure
11:37 < jebba> timschmidt, i saw the same thing. Yikes.  They need a reprap-misc list so all the non-dev stuff has an outlet.
11:38 < kanzure> they have reprap-users but nobody wants to use it "since reprap-dev is where the activity is!!"
11:38 < kanzure> maybe we can recommend openmanufacturing? *shrug*
11:38 < jebba> openmanufacturing?  You mean the expired domain!?
11:38 < timschmidt> and to be fair, whether or not reprap development is open source is a -dev issue
11:38 < jebba> ah, google list.
11:38 < kanzure> jebba: http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing
11:39 < kanzure> timschmidt: yeah, reprap.org development should be open source, since it's an open source project :P
11:39 < timschmidt> it's just that there are lots of people involved in the project that don't have previous open source dev'ing experience
11:39 < kanzure> but if you're forking the project into a private thing, then that's fine, but since it's private how will you collaborate?
11:39 < timschmidt> and some of them are very loud
11:39 < timschmidt> kanzure: right
11:39 < jebba> timschmidt, i was thinking similar. Even to me biz is -dev too, but i wouldnt dare broach the subject there.  But no one is really a -user yet. ;)
11:40 < timschmidt> kanzure: unfortunately, as the reply above shows, that's not universally acknowledged
11:40 < timschmidt> That wasn't a comment from a random, either.  That was Forest.
11:41 < kanzure> forest has been rather offensive lately :/
11:41 < kanzure> i mean, in some other interactions
11:41 < kanzure> i forwarded you the 30something emails
11:42 < timschmidt> no
11:43 < timschmidt> i don't think so
11:47 < kanzure> cat herding
11:52 < timschmidt> forwarding you the mail I send Sebastien...
11:54 < timschmidt> done
11:57 < kanzure> nice sentiments but why tell sebastien that?
11:57 < timschmidt> it was part of a larger conversation
11:58 < timschmidt> the gist being that some people of standing will probably get pissed and leave as the project grows.  c'est la vie.
12:00 < kanzure> ah okay.
12:06 < kanzure> in case anyone cares, anthony.aragues will also be committing some test.scad files to that one gitduino repository that we were talking about on the 28th last month
12:06 < kanzure> it's still buggy but i figure he really really wants to help out, so :)
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12:10 < kanzure> timschmidt: are you busy? :D maybe i can convince you to reformat package_spec.yaml for public consumption?
12:10 < timschmidt> I'll have time to look at it in a few short minutes...
12:11 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/package_spec.yaml
12:11 < timschmidt> I've had some ideas about dependency resolution, instruction compiling, etc.
12:11 < timschmidt> as well
12:11 < kanzure> html/pdf would be preferable
12:11 < kanzure> ok
12:12 < timschmidt> which I mention because they firm up requirement for the package spec
12:13 < kanzure> i think the 0.001 specification should be mostly this idea of (1) metadata and (2) put yer damn files in the damn folder and (3) revision control your sorry little butts
12:14 < kanzure> and it needs to be reformatted before it gets emailed out, because people will miss what it says and focus on its presentation instead :/
12:14 < kanzure> bbl busy busy busy
12:14 < timschmidt> ok, formatting I can do
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14:34 < kanzure> timschmidt: thanks
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15:21 < joshcryer> Director_X came back, awesome.
15:21 < joshcryer> I'll never understand body mod people, you can achieve the same thing with external additions.
15:22 < kanzure> what about heart valves
15:22 < kanzure> or prosthetic limbs
15:23 < joshcryer> Those aren't modifications those are replacements.
15:24 < joshcryer> Or in the case of some people, enhancements (blind people getting ocular implants, or people with seziures getting electronic treatment, etc).
15:24 < ThomasEgi> joshcryer, imagine wikipedia beeing hooked up right to your nerves
15:24 < ThomasEgi> makes a big different during an exam
15:24 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: i can imagine, but it's not hooked up
15:24 < kanzure> thank you
15:24 < joshcryer> ThomasEgi, sure, but at this point you are verging on upload territory.
15:24 < kanzure> and don't tell me eeg can do that
15:24 < kanzure> oops, i didn't mean to send "thank you"
15:24 < ThomasEgi> who's eeg?
15:25 < ThomasEgi> joshcryer, what do you mean by "verging on upload territory"?
15:25 < joshcryer> ThomasEgi, because for it to be an advancement it'd have to give you knowledge without learning it. If you're learning it you may as well be looking at it on a screen.
15:26 < joshcryer> ThomasEgi, if you can tap into brain inputs you are very close to being able to copy a brain wholesale.
15:26 < ThomasEgi> joshcryer, who cares. you have that knowledge accessible ;)
15:26 < joshcryer> ThomasEgi, heheh, fair enough, but I prefer glasses that have a nice screen as opposed to neural implants that require risky surgury.
15:26 < ThomasEgi> sure. onscreen-implant would be even more awesome
15:27 < joshcryer> Contact lenses would be cool.
15:27 < ThomasEgi> afaik there already are contact lenses with led-arrays
15:27 < joshcryer> Also, I am not sure that I would want my brain to have intuitive knowledge of all of wikipedia.
15:28 < ThomasEgi> na it's not intuitive knowledge
15:28 < QuantumG> I want the surgery because I want more than shit displayed on my vision
15:28 < joshcryer> It would allow wikipedia to effectively run my consciousness, covertly.
15:28 < ThomasEgi> it's still the same as typing into wikipedias search bar
15:28 < ThomasEgi> it's not hooked up to the brain
15:28 < QuantumG> I want more than the existing 5 senses
15:28 < ThomasEgi> but just to some nerves somewhere
15:28 < ThomasEgi> so you can braille-read articles
15:28 < joshcryer> QuantumG, me too, but I'll wait for an advanced body for that.
15:28 < joshcryer> Meat is so inefficient.
15:29 < joshcryer> ThomasEgi, vision is the fastest way to do input to the brain.
15:29 < ThomasEgi> QuantumG, you only have 5 senses???
15:29 < joshcryer> It's the largest part of the brain dedicated to sensory input.
15:29 < QuantumG> sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch
15:29 < ThomasEgi> joshcryer, that's true. but unlike HUD contactlenses, electrical electrodes are easily available :P
15:29 < ThomasEgi> acceleration is also a sense.
15:29 < ThomasEgi> temperature
15:30 < QuantumG> sure
15:30 < ThomasEgi> makes 7 already.
15:30 < joshcryer> That's touch.
15:30 < joshcryer> You cannot sense accelration without touch.
15:30 < ThomasEgi> you can^
15:30 < QuantumG> balance is technically touch too .. but whatever
15:30 < ThomasEgi> it's not^
15:30 < QuantumG> you get the point..
15:31 < ThomasEgi> balance is a skill.
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15:31 < ThomasEgi> so to say a feedback loop which includes your visual , alleleration and pressure senses , in combination with motoric actors aka muscles
15:32 < ThomasEgi> one could even argue there are  senses since translatorical and angular acceleration are "messured" seperately.
15:32 < joshcryer> If I were to do this, which I will probably some day, I'd have accelerometers in my setup, that would give me a visual feedback for which direction I'm moving in.
15:33 < joshcryer> Color for speed, etc, basic stuff.
15:33 < QuantumG> anyway, with today's technology one could easily have gps implanted in their brain and have native knowledge of their absolute position / velocity
15:33 < ThomasEgi> acceleration wont give you a preception of speed
15:33 < joshcryer> The speed of the direction.
15:33 < ThomasEgi> joshcryer, not even that.
15:33 < ThomasEgi> acceleration only give you a sense of the "change" of your speed.
15:34 < joshcryer> I am running forward, the top of the HUD would have a faint red.
15:34 < ThomasEgi> joshcryer, speed != acceleration
15:34 < ThomasEgi> it would only show something during the acceleration
15:34 < ThomasEgi> once you'r running it wont do a bit
15:34 < joshcryer> ThomasEgi, correct.
15:35 < ThomasEgi> you can meassure angular speed,tho.
15:36 < joshcryer> Did you guys see Willo Garages video updates?
15:36 < joshcryer> They showed off some neat robots.
15:36 < joshcryer> My favorite was the 'bug' that ran around the table.
15:36 < joshcryer> And. The Hightek robot from Japan.
15:36 < joshcryer> Which was ridiculously cool looking.
15:37 < joshcryer> Though its capablities were obviously due to the way it was made, with a focus on finding its center of gravity and whatnot.
15:38 < joshcryer> The bug, btw, was neat in that it had two wheels and there was an emphasis on over doing it, so it'd seem like it was about to drive off the table but then it just stopped and changed its mind. :)
15:39 < joshcryer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QQSv2IFCFo and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX24MTRMoww
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15:41 < joshcryer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX24MTRMoww#t=349s
15:50 < joshcryer> Aww, someone got a Chrome OS notebook. I didn't even know about this.
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15:56 < joshcryer> There, I just did their survey and wrote an awesome essay about how if they send me one I will change the world. Not really, it was pretty beggy. "I'm a poor indy dev hpl plsss!"
15:57 < kanzure> i filled one out a month ago.. told them they should give me one because our missions are similar
15:58 < joshcryer> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_nbMpFWUff3E/TUsp_pu5SOI/AAAAAAAAAHA/afcmCeEEDbc/s912/WP_000201.jpg
15:58 < joshcryer> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_nbMpFWUff3E/TUsp_9EbZ-I/AAAAAAAAAHE/enRpvne-79Y/s912/WP_000202.jpg
15:58 < joshcryer> Smiling box. :)
15:59 < QuantumG> http://www.freebase.com/view/en/falcon_9
16:16 < timschmidt> from what I could gather, they specifically avoided developers
16:17 < timschmidt> in favor of end user types
16:17  * timschmidt also filled out a form - the day they became available
16:44 < pasky> QuantumG: the sense of balance and acceleration is "technically touch" about as much as hearing is
16:45 < QuantumG> yeah true
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19:11 < kanzure> uniqanomaly__: do you do android app development?
19:24 < uniqanomaly__> nah
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19:56 < jennicide> kanzure
19:57 < jennicide> do you have a minute?
20:03 < kanzure> i might, what's up
20:04 < jennicide> has the h++ movement adopted an official term?
20:04 < jennicide> homotechnologus ?
20:04 < kanzure> transhumanism
20:05 < kanzure> transhuman/posthuman.. what have you.
20:06 < jennicide> is there a mission statement
20:06 < jennicide> or is it more a bunch of collective works
20:13 < kanzure> there's an organization called humanity+ which was originally 'the world transhumanist association'
20:13 < kanzure> http://humanityplus.org/
20:13 < QuantumG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIX5a9HouKM  <- did ya see this?  I wonder if they know how technocratic they sound
20:14 < kanzure> what is technocratic
20:15 < QuantumG> "Technocracy is a hypothetical form of government in which engineers, scientists, and other technical experts are in control of decision making in their respective fields."
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20:15 < QuantumG> and usually the primary means of maintaining it is the usual indoctrination of the young, etc
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20:33 < jrabbit> QuantumG: i think I've seen you before.
20:33 < QuantumG> probably
20:33 < jrabbit> Wait I think you're on slashdot no?
20:34 < QuantumG> yup
20:34 < jrabbit> Ah thats it.
20:35 < jrabbit> QuantumG: actually the technocracy movement left some interesting plans for nationbuilding
20:35 < jrabbit> like their "technate" idea that theres a aprticular size of nation that lets it have the ability to choose its own economic system
20:36 < QuantumG> I don't doubt it.. bit hard to get worse than the baboons who run the nations now :)
20:36 < jrabbit> Its not a great governance strategy but its a nifty look at technology and the state
20:48 < kanzure> QuantumG: does it worry you that people know you because of slashdot?
20:48 < kanzure> i mean, of all things..
20:49 < kanzure> "oh you're that guy who uses slashdot"
20:49 < QuantumG> hey, it's how I met you
20:53 < jebba> i didnt know you were on slashdot. wtf you do on slashdot? now?
20:57 < QuantumG> me? I occasionally post a sarcastic comment
20:58 < jebba> kanzure
20:58 < jebba> ah, i thought you meant like editor or an article today/recent or something
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20:59 < QuantumG> hell no
20:59 < jebba> heh
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21:12 < jrabbit> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12361948
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--- Log closed Fri Feb 04 00:00:10 2011