--- Log opened Tue Feb 08 00:00:10 2011
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00:37 < joshcryer> OK seriously, I'm going to be fixated on using audio to navigate.
00:39 < joshcryer> It's inadequate for typing since I use a lot of jargon, but it can navigate my Chrome bookmark bar trivially.
01:14 < Utopiah> tried http://vimium.github.com ?
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01:38 < Lukas___> Good morning
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05:18 < joshcryer> Anyone getting the impression that the internet is finally being used for what it was best for? re: Egypt
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05:27 < joshcryer> http://egypt.alive.in/2011/02/08/dream-tv-interview-with-wael-ghonim-part-2-with-english-subtitles/
05:27 < Lukas___> Good morning lads and ladies
05:46 < drazak> kanzure: know any fab labs in buffalo?
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05:57 < uniqanomaly> http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg5bpyZp591qf6qofo1_500.png ahahah, this one is great
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06:07 < joshcryer> uniqanomaly, awesome, and somewhat ironic given Proudhon's nationality.
06:08 < joshcryer> Cuba will be next.
06:08 < joshcryer> BTW, apparently Google is now redirecting all searches from within Egypt to SSL.
06:09 < joshcryer> I think their "do no evil" vs "doing evil" score is being equaled out by their Egypt actions.
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07:26 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone.
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08:25 < kanzure> heh someone from switzerland has been trying to call me because she thinks i run diybio.org
08:26 < Lukas___> see, I wasn't the only one that called you
08:32 < kanzure> ?
08:32 < kanzure> if you want the actual data you can parse meetlog.txt
08:40 < Utopiah> http://www.goodiff.org tracking of semantic changes in web service policies.
08:45 < kanzure> http://openprotocols.net/hiring/
08:45 < kanzure> http://openprotocols.net/hiring/rough%20spec.pdf
08:45 < kanzure> i'm not convinced this is a good format (plain text)
08:46 < kanzure> http://apps.ycombinator.com/item?id=2191105
08:47 < kanzure> i really think this should be machine parseable but nobody is going to invest the time or thought to figure it out
08:48 < kanzure> i'm also a little annoyed that eric (a member of the diybio groups) isn't soliciting feedback from his community
08:55  * strages hates closed communities
08:58 < kanzure> ok emailed:
08:58 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_thread/thread/19df187ef1014735
09:05 < Utopiah> openprotocols.net makes me wonder again, any of you here have a smart solution to track duplicated experiment that would confirm/infirm an initial publication? (beside doing it manually)
09:07 < kanzure> what? without doing an experiment, you want to do the experiment?
09:08 < Utopiah> well not another lab since Im pretty I dont need to notify myself when I do sth
09:08 < Utopiah> s/well not/well no,/
09:11 < Utopiah> I was imaginating reading an article then subscribe to an RSS feed "Get notified when this is tested again by an independant lab"
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09:59 < mayko> Utopiah: I use google alerts to let me know when a paper is cited; replications of an experiment would presumably cite it. It would only work on published work, though
09:59 < mayko> were you thinking more of a lab to lab network?
10:01 < Utopiah> sounds like a solution but as you suggested it would have some noise and be limited to peer reviewed papers
10:05 < mayko> yeah it seems like there would have to be easy resources for sharing say .xls files and including alerts
10:05 < mayko> getting the info centralized would just need organization i guess?
10:06 < Utopiah> yes "just organization", isn't it what humans generally suck at? ;)
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10:13 < Utopiah> (asked "Eric" too, just in case)
10:15 < Utopiah> AFAIK http://www.springerprotocols.com doesn't do it either
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10:57 < mayko> yes herding humans: at least cats can be coaxed with tuna
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12:02 < ENKI-][> kanzure: http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/2963 <-- are you aware of this?
12:02 < ENKI-][> (you're probably IN it)
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12:18 < kanzure> huh
12:18 < kanzure> that's neat.
12:18 < kanzure> he should torrent all that footage
12:22 < ENKI-][> i think he's still working on torrenting geocities
12:22 < ENKI-][> you could contact him and offer to seed it, though
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12:43 < kanzure> fenn: michael anissimov wants to see your myvu
12:43 < fenn> why?
12:50 < kanzure> he wants to dump money for a 'scouter'
12:51 < kanzure> (on a related note, he's really into dbz)
12:51 < kanzure> so i told him he should throw money at you for parts and documentation for an open source well-documented project
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12:55 < ENKI-][> kanzure: and if it costs over nine thousand he'll have to crush it?
13:21 < fenn> http://unpaper.berlios.de/  unpaper is a post-processing tool for scanned sheets of paper, especially for book pages that have been scanned
13:23 < fenn> hmm looks like it makes the text blurry, wtf
13:23 < fenn> can't be that hard to rotate text without fucking it up
13:24 < fenn> http://dailypackage.fedorabook.com/uploads/2007-06-26-unpaper.png
13:40 < kanzure> lol see pm fenn
13:47 < kanzure> so their idea for openprotocols.net is for people to "like" protocols and thus this will fix everything?
13:47 < kanzure> i'm not sure if i buy that
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13:54 < Utopiah> mayko: eric from openprotocol replied "That's an awesome idea, but isn't really something we've considered building.  Unfortunately, I think the google alerts method is the best way to do it."
13:54 < kanzure> they aren't even developers.. so i don't know why you emailed them :P
13:55 < Utopiah> hope :\
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14:06 < Lukas____> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X5GAOf1UlE&feature=feedu
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14:15 < ybit> fenn: thanks for the unpaper link
14:16 < ybit> Lukas____: that's probably the most advanced bionic arm i've seen
14:17 < Lukas____> Same here
14:27 < Lukas____> How long do you think it will be until it becomes affordable for poor college students?
14:28 < ybit> ENKI-][: thanks for the update on the two hands project, i was wondering if this was ever going to be completed
14:28 < ENKI-][> np
14:30 < ybit> Lukas____: it could be highly affordable if you attend research uni
14:31 < Lukas____> ?
14:31 < Lukas____> <ybit>: Working in a PhD lab, I assume
14:35 < ybit> i'm not sure if it requires obtaining your PhD, but several universities are working on prosthetic arms
14:39 < Lukas____> Interesting
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18:25 < kanzure> http://blog.automenta.com/2011/02/engineerables-and-generalizing-skdb.html
18:26 < kanzure> weird.
18:31 < kanzure> where is SeH hanging out?
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19:07 < kanzure> oh good god marc fawzi is still alive
19:07 < kanzure> "spoke to Ponoko (one of their people commented on a blog post i had on open hardware/manufacturing and diy bio) and they're releasing an API at some point in the future, which means there now can be apps that let people design things and then get them manufactured via any number of 3D manufacturers, like ponoko, shapeways, etc"
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19:11 < kanzure> who have i been cc'ing on the reprap grand prize document? jrayhawk do you want in on that email chain
19:12 < kanzure> oh, timschmidt too i guess
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19:45  * fenn points at sseehh 
19:48 < kanzure> hi sseehh
19:48 < kanzure> oh you're probably SeH
19:49 < sseehh> yes hi kanzure hi fenn
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19:52 < kanzure> sseehh: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/package_spec.yaml
19:58 < fenn> why are you showing him that?
19:58 < fenn> it's not exactly easily digestible material
20:00 < sseehh> kanzure: thanks i've got the repo cloned and have been looking thru it
20:00 < sseehh> fenn: i was thinking about how to generalize SKDB to abstract things
20:02 < fenn> sseehh: yeah, it's not supposed to be general purpose
20:03 < fenn> i don't want to get stuck in a mire of philosophy
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20:03 < fenn> also, in my view the big problem is getting good curated data
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20:05 < fenn> without funding or some sort of government assistance, data collection is going to be a slow, linearly increasing process
20:05 < sseehh> fenn: understood re: philosophy, its already very ambitious
20:05 < fenn> at least until (if) it becomes popular
20:06 < fenn> then we will have the opposite problem, lots of crap data
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20:06 < fenn> i'm not sure which is worse :\
20:07 < fenn> gah where did all the example packages go
20:14 < fenn> kanzure which is the right place to put skdb example packages, diyhpl.us or /srv/ikiwiki ?
20:17 < drazak> how far along is SKDB now?
20:18 < fenn> same as a year ago
20:18 < fenn> proof of concept stuff
20:24 < kanzure> fenn: right now skdb-get.py just clones from diyhpl.us' git server
20:24 < kanzure> so you should just use piny's "newrepo" command and push the examples
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20:26 < kanzure> what an awful netsplit
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20:29 < fenn> sseehh: some example packages http://diyhpl.us/cgit/threads/ http://diyhpl.us/cgit/screw/
20:32 < fenn> grr i'm so jealous http://brlcad.org/w/images/3/31/Hexbolt.png
20:33 < fenn> spent two weeks with opencascade and couldn't get helices to work
20:33 < fenn> (not an anatomically accurate thread, but whatever)
20:39 < fenn> i want to delete smari's django inventory stuff but i want to do it in such a way as to remove it from the history as well..
20:40 < kanzure> removing it from the history will cause pain for everyone who has a cloned copy of skdb since forever
20:40 < gnusha> 26f2280 htmlerized version of the package specification
20:41 < fenn> gnusha should say what repo it's talking about
20:42 < fenn> and anyway when i said "not easily digestable" i wasn't referring to the fact that it was written i nyaml
20:42 < kanzure> yeah well, i've been meaning to do this anyway
20:42 < kanzure> jrayhawk: why isn't package_spec.html showing up in http://gnusha.org/skdb/doc/
20:43 < kanzure> is the ikiwiki post-receive hook really that screwed up
20:43 < fenn> please commit the source file too
20:43 < kanzure> this works so i know it's there somewhere.. http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/package_spec.html
20:43 < kanzure> fenn: it's by hand
20:43 < fenn> says it was made by docutils
20:44 < kanzure> i copied css from something i generated a while back
20:44 < fenn> oh i see
20:44 < fenn> nm
20:44 < kanzure> i'm an awful person
20:44 < kanzure> html by hand is devil's work
20:44 < fenn> yes, i'm going to just fix this and learn asciidoc
20:45 < kanzure> on a related note, http://psd2html.com/ recently pulled through for me on a paid project
20:45 < fenn> holy motherfucking shit "apt-get install asciidoc\n <snip> After this operation, 759MB of additional disk space will be used."
20:46 < kanzure> are you on gnusha doing that?
20:46 < fenn> no, but i think i should be
20:46 < fenn> i dont want all that texlive crap cluttering up my computer :)
20:47 < fenn> hmm i wonder why it's installing that, asciidoc only explicitly depends on python
20:48 < fenn> --no-install-recommends seems to work
20:48 < kanzure> i wonder if the ikiwiki hook just didn't run, or what.
20:48 < kanzure> jrayhawk: are you around
20:48 < kanzure> i'd really like to post a link to the file on OM for once
20:49 < fenn> you sure you pushed to the repo you expect to have updated?
20:49 < kanzure> yep.. gnusha.org/skdb/ is basically a symlink to the ikiwiki-compiled directory
20:49 < kanzure> check out /srv/ikiwiki/skdb/
20:49 < fenn> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/package_spec.html?id=26f228018a4a494ace53951502de28c0b4d8216a
20:50 < kanzure> what about it? that's the one with Content type: plain-text set
20:50 < kanzure> (in general, i think cgit *should* give me the plaintext view of the file)
20:51 < fenn> how do i make it not do that
20:51 < kanzure> hacking the cgit source code somewhere
20:51 < fenn> bah
20:52 < kanzure> ikiwiki should be either compiling the files or leaving them alone
20:52 < fenn> this mimetype stuff is such a pain
20:52 < kanzure> not eliminating them entirely..
20:52 < kanzure> oh wait, /skdb is /srv/www/diyhpl.us/skdb/
20:53 < fenn> that's what i was trying to say
20:53 < fenn> but then i got confused
20:53 < fenn> your directory mapping is fubar
20:54 < fenn> i dont like that there are two parallel copies of the same repos on the same server
20:54 < kanzure> yeah i have no idea what /srv/www/diyhpl.us/skdb/ is
20:54 < kanzure> it's not even a symlink to the ikiwiki thing
20:54 < kanzure> and it's not a git repo, so it's not a working directory
20:54 < fenn> huh?
20:55 < kanzure> well ikiwiki makes a working directory of your repo and places compiled copies of the files
20:55 < fenn> omg it's a soulless zombie
20:55 < fenn> a git repo with no .git directory
20:55 < kanzure> i'm going to switch gnusha.og/skdb to /srv/ikiwiki/skdb/ for a few moments and see how awful it is
20:57 < kanzure> oh hm.
20:57 < kanzure> http://gnusha.org/skdb/
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20:59 < fenn> is it supposed to look like that?
20:59 < kanzure> no.. that's not the ikiwiki-compiled directory
21:00 < fenn> i meant the html
21:00 < kanzure> oh, this? http://gnusha.org/skdb/doc/package_spec.html
21:00 < kanzure> yeah..
21:01 < kanzure> not bad for 20 minutes of html bullshitting
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21:01 < fenn> bbl
21:08 < kanzure> bryan@gnusha:/srv/git/skdb.git/hooks$ sudo ./post-update 867960c35ece75154d2944df8c0457779a62599d 26f228018a4a494ace53951502de28c0b4d8216a master
21:08 < kanzure> hrm.. that should have done it
21:10 < kanzure> oh well. i've manually placed the file in the directory for now.
21:10 < kanzure> http://gnusha.org/skdb/doc/package_spec.html
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21:43 < fenn> see kanzure this is why i say you take credit for my work
21:44 < fenn> "hey all i've thrown up a htmlerized package spec"
21:44 < kanzure> fenn: i don't deny it, i know this is a problem and you should be mad at me
21:45 < fenn> also you added like 1 word and then added yourself as a spec maintainer
21:46 < kanzure> you can remove me if you want :P
21:46 < kanzure> i won't editwar you
21:47 < fenn> oh i guess you've been adding stuff, nevermind
21:47 < kanzure> yeah well, one word isn't worth much
21:47 < kanzure> (git blame?)
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21:51 < kanzure> in case anyone cares, today i finished the 'reprap grandprize' draft for humanity+
21:51 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/gadastuff/reprapgrandprize.v0.3.pdf
21:51 < kanzure> and 'water liberation prize' just for kicks (i'm not particularly excited about it since it's non-open-source) http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/gadastuff/waterliberationprize.v0.1.pdf
21:51 < fenn> also it's not feasible
21:52 < fenn> i mean 1) we already have water filtration technology
21:52 < fenn> 2) it's not magic
21:52 < fenn> 3) why should it cost less than it currently costs?
21:52 < fenn> i want a $1 chip fabber
21:53 < fenn> do i get a prize?
21:53 < kanzure> don't ask me about this.. because i don't know.
21:53 < kanzure> fenn: yes
21:53  * fenn eats a cookie
21:53 < kanzure> prizes for all!
21:53 < kanzure> the Ben Lipkowitz TransHumanitarian Innovation Prize in Professional Industrial Engineering
21:54 < kanzure> but yeah, i'd rather be spending my time writing up a "please give tim schmidt $2,500 for doing an skdb-compatible open source AFM" or something
21:54 < kanzure> or, more usefully, perhaps a chromatography filter thingy
21:54 < fenn> heh you should start a new organization, WTH, world transhumanitarians
21:54 < kanzure> or WTF.. what terrible failure
21:55 < kanzure> speaking of wtf.. who the hell schedules a meeting for midnight?
21:55 < fenn> me
21:55  * kanzure goes to meet up with elevenarms
21:55 < kanzure> ycombinator, bitches!
21:55 < fenn> eh?
21:55 < kanzure> if you're around later i'll explain
21:55 < kanzure> cya
21:56 < fenn> y = lambda g: (lambda f: g(lambda arg: f(f)(arg))) (lambda f: g(lambda arg: f(f)(arg))
21:57 < kanzure> complain to #startups about the name if you want..
21:57 < fenn> "if you don't understand it, you're not a computer scientist"
22:13 < QuantumG> fenn: you mean if the parens matched?
22:14 < fenn> it's python
22:17 < fenn> in scheme that would look like this: (define Y (lambda (g) ((lambda (f) (g (lambda (arg) ((f f) arg)))) (lambda (f) (g (lambda (arg) ((f f) arg)))))))
22:18 < fenn> oh i was missing a paren
22:19 < fenn> bleck
22:22 < joshcryer> shaving helmet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bgRszdUdhQ
22:22 < joshcryer> ie, actual shaving
22:22 < joshcryer> it's lame if it's real :P
22:25 -!- phreedom_ [~quassel@109.254.17.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
22:30 -!- strages [~strages@wifi.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
22:35 < fenn> i like it
22:35 < fenn> i think it's real; there's no way they could have taken the helmet off and shaved his head in that amount of time
22:38 < drazak> kanzure: what are you guys planning on doing when you have something to solder that's BGA?
22:41 < fenn> toaster oven
22:41 < fenn> or hot plate
22:41 < fenn> but basically "don't do that"
22:41 < drazak> really? I'm not sure how those work :S
22:41 < drazak> I might email my university to get the BGA work done that I need
22:41 < fenn> you put the chip on the board, put the board on a hot plate, done
22:42 < drazak> yeah, I know
22:42 < drazak> and pray you have even heating
22:42 < fenn> could use a flat aluminum plate
22:42 < drazak> and that air currents don't move your chip too much
22:42 < fenn> pff
22:42 < drazak> and that your solder paste melts and wets properly
22:43 < fenn> yeah that's more of a problem because the solder on the chip will oxidize if not stored properly
22:43 < drazak> yeah, it's a big hassle
22:44 < joshcryer> fenn, it's been debunked. http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs020.snc1/2642_547613930379_24800851_33329724_643409_n.jpg
22:44 < joshcryer> (I didn't see it when I posted.)
22:44 < fenn> yeah i know :(
22:44 < joshcryer> Looking at the helmet it's kinda obvious because it only moves on the top of the head not the sides.
22:44 < joshcryer> My dream lives!
22:45 < fenn> one day we will have a true shaving helmet, and it will be good
22:46 < fenn> man, what a useless day today was
22:47 -!- strages [~strages@c-71-207-215-204.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:47 < jrayhawk> Are there still Ikiwiki problems for me to look at?
22:48 < fenn> yes
22:48 < jrayhawk> do tell
22:48 < fenn> something along the lines of: ikiwiki doesn't copy the committed html file to its rendered directory
22:49 < fenn> either that or kanzure pushed to the wrong repo
22:49 < jrayhawk> Hmm. I forget what plugin disables that. Let me see.
22:51 < jrayhawk> Works fine by default, at least.
22:56 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil]
22:57 < jrayhawk> jrayhawk@gnusha:~$ find /srv/ikiwiki/skdb/doc/ -user root
22:57 < jrayhawk> /srv/ikiwiki/skdb/doc/.ikiwiki/indexdb
22:57 < jrayhawk> /srv/ikiwiki/skdb/doc/index.mdwn
22:58 < jrayhawk> Same ol' same ol'.
22:58 < jrayhawk> I'm sure glad I made the rebuildrepo command so I don't have to invest serious effort in working out how Bryan thinks things are supposed to work.
23:00 < fenn> i dont get it, what was the problem? and what did you do?
23:00 < drazak> I'm considering building a Mendel
23:01 < jrayhawk> I'm still working things out, but, at the very least, bryan at some point ran stuff as root rather than letting the hooks do their thing.
23:02 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:03 < drazak> I think I can do the PCB inhouse, no problem
23:04 < jrayhawk> Ah, the 'rawhtml' plugin is needed.
23:04 < jrayhawk> I should probably just have a big 'turn on all the insecure stuf' button
23:04 < jrayhawk> stuff
23:05 < kanzure> can someone do a test commit of the file and see if it goes up on ikiwiki http?
23:05 < kanzure> im still at dinnermeeting
23:05 < jrayhawk> Just a second, fixing things
23:06 < kanzure> woo fixing things
23:07 < jrayhawk> Okay, that should be better.
23:07 < jrayhawk> http://diyhpl.us/skdb/package_spec.html
23:08 < jrayhawk> push(@{$conf->{add_plugins}}, "rawhtml");
23:08 < kanzure> why was /skdb/doc/thatfike working when i put the file ib doc/?
23:09 < kanzure> guess ill check if skdb/doc/ works there later
23:09 < drazak> fenn: I'm considering non-officially-kosher cost saving measures for a reprap
23:09 < kanzure> thx jrayhawk
23:09 < drazak> fenn: I can make a board in house, and source the electronics myself, that probably cuts 50 bucks
23:09 < fenn> i'm sure you can save more than 50
23:09 < drazak> I'm being conservative
23:09 < drazak> I'd like to get it under 300
23:10 < fenn> everything?
23:10 < jrayhawk> That's... a damned good question.
23:10 < drazak> fenn: yeah
23:11 < kanzure> im using an aliad in my apache config pointing to the working dir
23:11 < kanzure> alia
23:12 < fenn> drazak: i'm sure you can do that without even making any boards.. i could prove it, if i had better book-keeping
23:12 < fenn> assuming you don't have to pay for the plastic parts
23:12 < drazak> fenn: well you guys have a reprap right?
23:13 < jrayhawk> the doc directory is a legacy thing due to piny being overly fearful of deleting old stuff when configurations change, but I have no idea how package_spec.html wound up in there. There's no sudo activity from around that time.
23:13 < drazak> fenn: want to send me the plastic parts? :P
23:13 < jrayhawk> Which I guess means it... might've been related to a push... somehow?
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23:18 < fenn> he just put it in there a couple hours ago
23:18 < kanzure> jrayhawk i said in the logd i put it there
23:18 < kanzure> theres a link in the wildto it
23:18 < jrayhawk> oh, well, whatever, then
23:18 < kanzure> hours? god damn time travel
23:19 < jrayhawk> you should start a transtemporalist channel
23:21 < fenn> sorry, just finished "marooned in realtime"
23:22 < kanzure> are we grinding yet
23:23 < jrayhawk> bring me 50 rat tails
23:24 < fenn> i have TMJ, does that count?
23:25 < jrayhawk> is it okay if I add a redirect from doc/package_spec.html to package_spec.html so that file actually winds up maintained
23:25 < kanzure> yes
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23:26 < fenn> uh, it's supposed to be in doc/, is there a reason to put it in /?
23:26 < kanzure> its ikiwiki on doc/
23:26 < jrayhawk> Bryan wanted doc/ rendered to / and everything else ignored.
23:27 < kanzure> i suck
23:27 < fenn> huh??
23:27 < jrayhawk> Nah, it's a reasonable thing to want to do.
23:27 < kanzure> well the website has to be somewwhere
23:28 < fenn> ok
23:30 < jrayhawk> fenn: so the idea is https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/tree/doc/index.mdwn gets rendered to http://diyhpl.us/skdb/ and https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/tree/doc/package_spec.html gets rendered to http://diyhpl.us/skdb/package_spec.html, etc.
23:30 < jrayhawk> And everything outside of doc people can just get from git or arduously from cgit.
23:30 < jrayhawk> Make them SUFFER.
23:31  * fenn suffers
23:31 < fenn> wiki suffrage!
23:31 < jrayhawk> wikis are not a democracy, they're a do-ocracy
23:31 < jrayhawk> it ensures everyone suffers
23:32 < fenn> i'm sort of tired of all these doodad-do-ad-hocracies
23:32 < jrayhawk> haha
23:33 < fenn> end up buried in glitter and popsicle sticks
23:33 < fenn> meanwhile the nuclear reactor gets ignored and thrown out because nobody used it
23:38 < kanzure> hide the code lesd the wikiserfs learn
23:38 < kanzure> less
23:39 < kanzure> blah
23:39 < kanzure> mobilefail
23:39 < jrayhawk> hee hee does your phone not have a real keyboard
23:40 < kanzure> ... it does. mb300 backflip
23:50 < jrayhawk> rumormill has it that the n9 will be announced this weekend
--- Log closed Wed Feb 09 00:00:10 2011