--- Log opened Sun Mar 20 00:00:10 2011 00:09 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.6.161] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:35 < ybit> fenn, kanzure, you hate siai 01:35 < ybit> why 01:36 < ybit> maybe hate isn't the correct word 01:44 < ybit> 2009-12-01.log:23:24 < kanzure> i hate how the singularity institute is focused on "existential risks" 01:46 < ybit> 10:01 < kanzure> they were completely unwilling to listen to me because manufacturing is unreasonable or something 01:46 < ybit> 10:02 < Smari> existential risk folks annoy me too. 01:46 < ybit> 10:02 < Smari> they're severe doomsayers. 01:46 < ybit> 10:02 < kanzure> right and that's what this community is about right now 01:47 < ybit> i'm guessing this is most of it 01:47 < ybit> 0:02 < kanzure> and we're trying to change that 01:47 < ybit> 10:02 < Smari> and won't be told that doom can be averted, because that means they're out of a job. 01:47 < ybit> 10:03 < fenn> that's why any reasonable plan of action involves dismantling the global employee state we've got going 01:48 < ybit> er, guess that was unrelated :) 01:49 < JayDugger> My comment or fenn's quote about global employee state? 01:51 < ybit> JayDugger: you are Smari? 03:42 -!- devrandom [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:59 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-0e.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:59 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-0e.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:59 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:28 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:50 < JayDugger> ... 07:55 -!- enki-][ is now known as enki-[quit] 08:01 -!- jrabbit [~babyseal@unaffiliated/jrabbit] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:22 -!- jrabbit [~babyseal@unaffiliated/jrabbit] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:33 < jrayhawk> SIAI's main concern, AI takeoff, is potentially the most significant event in human history, and, among significant events, it has a rare distinction in that we can forsee and influence its initial circumstances such that we might effect its eventual results. The SIAI has taken upon itself to be the stewards. 08:33 < jrayhawk> This responsibility is essentially unfathomable, so they have two real goals at this point: 08:34 < jrayhawk> 1) attempt to find a way of comprehending their undertaking 08:34 < jrayhawk> 2) avoid fucking anything up until 1) is done 08:35 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:37 < jrayhawk> Bryan and Fenn, who make tangential progress on the singularity, do not fit in well with these goals. 08:41 < jrayhawk> Bryan seems to intuit that a goal system such as the SIAI's will result in nothing being accomplished, and a lot of smart people being used to accomplish it. 08:41 < jrayhawk> Which is certainly plausible. 08:59 < jrayhawk> I'm not really all that resentful of it; SIAI's and FHI's rationality blogs (training and recruitment centers for goal number one) seem like a rising tide raising all ships. 09:00 < jrayhawk> and rationality fanfic, of course 09:01 < JayDugger> Harry Potter fanfic, if you please. 09:24 -!- devrandom [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:27 < JayDugger> Good night, everyone. 09:27 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-118-239.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 10:22 -!- jrabbit [~babyseal@unaffiliated/jrabbit] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:24 -!- Technicus [~Technicus@DSLPool-net209-116.wctc.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:30 -!- mjr [mjr@2001:1bc8:102:60d4:21b:fcff:fe32:5eda] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:40 -!- jrabbit [~babyseal@unaffiliated/jrabbit] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:50 -!- mjr [mjr@2001:1bc8:102:60d4:21b:fcff:fe32:5eda] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:10 -!- uniqanomaly__ [~ua@62.87.224.60] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:12 -!- uniqanomaly_ [~ua@dynamic-78-8-85-57.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:46 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:59 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:02 -!- Juul [~Juul@c-24-130-50-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:17 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:29 -!- jmil [~jmil@2001:468:1802:e148:223:32ff:feb1:9dfc] has quit [Quit: jmil] 12:37 -!- mjr [mjr@2001:1bc8:102:60d4:21b:fcff:fe32:5eda] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:37 -!- mjr [mjr@2001:1bc8:102:60d4:21b:fcff:fe32:5eda] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:40 -!- Juul [~Juul@c-24-130-50-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:44 -!- mjr [mjr@2001:1bc8:102:60d4:21b:fcff:fe32:5eda] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:48 -!- mjr [mjr@2001:1bc8:102:60d4:21b:fcff:fe32:5eda] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:39 -!- jebba_ [~jebba@ip-216-17-181-80.rev.frii.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:40 < fenn> bertrand russell fanfic 13:43 < ybit> i never really thought about agi seriously until yesterday 13:44 < ybit> something that i guess is hard to admit 13:47 < fenn> what do you mean thought about seriously? 13:48 < ybit> yeah, that's something that need clarification, but i'm having a tough time focusing 13:48 < ybit> probably should brew some coffee 13:48 < ybit> i'm writing my thoughts out right now, one sec 13:49 < ybit> well, i could just think aloud in here 13:49 < ybit> at some point we're going to try expanding our brain's current limitations with nanotechnology, before we do this we need to better understand the brain. 13:49 < ybit> the logical way of doing this would be to create an aritifical brain 13:50 < ybit> once you've done that, you've created the first agi 13:50 < ybit> this is where i'm concerned 13:51 < ybit> i never really considered that agi would come before we used nanotech in our brains, but it makes sense 13:54 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:54 < ybit> this puts into question if creating an artificial brain and publishing the results openly is a good idea 13:55 -!- jebba_ [~jebba@ip-216-17-181-80.rev.frii.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:55 < ybit> i put all this in here, because i'm assuming that others in here have given it more thought 13:55 < fenn> people are already creating artificial brains, albeit small ones 13:56 < fenn> we're nowhere close to "real" nanotech 13:56 < ybit> right 13:56 < fenn> however artificial brain != agi 13:56 < ybit> yes 13:56 < fenn> i.e. your cat can't write C++ 13:57 < fenn> publishing the results openly is a good idea. 13:57 < ybit> why? 13:57 < fenn> you aren't smart enough to hog it 13:58 < fenn> the combined efforts of everybody will produce more net benefit than whatever you personally (or your in-group) could come up with 13:59 < fenn> also, if there is indeed any danger, others will be made aware of it 13:59 < fenn> if SIAI is actually developing an AGI in secret like they were discussing years ago, i would be very suprised 13:59 < ybit> i suppose the first agi would be built using supercomputers, and the only persons that would have the capabilities would large corps and extremely wealthy individuals 14:00 < fenn> i guess 14:00 < fenn> you can do a lot with a modern GPU 14:00 < ybit> i don't know enough to say if it could or couldn't be written to thrive on a botnet 14:00 < mjr> botnet distribution is hard 14:01 < ybit> i'm concerned about safeguards these organizations would use when building the agi 14:01 < fenn> i'm still in the camp that AGI is trivial once you know how to do it 14:02 < ybit> also about agi taking off and obliterating humanity 14:03 < fenn> ok, well, write a concerned letter to your nearest university computer science department 14:04 * fenn goes and reads some web comics 14:04 < ybit> it would almost seem logical to (a) not allow for this agi to be localized, being fed only the information needed to solve a particular problem and (b) to have the plug pulled after a given time, maybe to prevent it from getting out of control. maybe b isn't necessary 14:04 < fenn> you mean embodied? 14:05 < ybit> localized, er, as in restricted access to the internet 14:05 < fenn> pff 14:05 < fenn> good luck 14:05 < ybit> right, i figured a response would come 14:05 < ybit> i want more thoughts on the matter, i've given it little thought 14:05 < fenn> i thought it was interesting that watson wasn't connected to the net 14:06 < fenn> seems they did it because the net contains mostly junk 14:06 < ybit> hrm 14:07 < ybit> i guess that is silly 14:08 < ybit> i just assumed access to the internet meant access to anything it wanted or needed to expand and (appeal to pathos) destroy humanity 14:10 < ybit> and i haven't read the theories behind seed ai 14:11 < ybit> curious to know the proposed methods for recursive improvement 14:14 < fenn> i havent found anything beyond vague "it would design a better AI" 14:14 < fenn> let me know if you do 14:26 < jrayhawk> http://yudkowsky.net/singularity/aibox 14:30 -!- devrandom [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:32 -!- wrldpc2 [~benny@58-89-241-19.nttmil.net] has quit [Quit: wrldpc2] 14:39 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.6.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45 < kanzure> "yes but it's 100000 times smarter than you, so you can't possibly do anything about it!!!" 14:45 < kanzure> "nuh uh" 14:46 < kanzure> "i love mom MORE" 14:46 < kanzure> "no i love mom more times 5" 14:46 < kanzure> "no i do, time 20" 14:46 < kanzure> "no me, times infinity!!" 14:48 < QuantumG> from what I've seen of AI researchers, that multiplier brings the AI up to Big Bang Theory smarts. 15:06 -!- mayko [~mayko@71-22-217-151.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:16 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:19 -!- mayko [~mayko@71-22-217-151.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:45 -!- phreedom [~quassel@109.254.17.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:47 -!- phreedom [~quassel@109.254.17.41] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:00 -!- uniqanomaly__ [~ua@62.87.224.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00 -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@62.87.224.60] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:15 -!- Jappe2 [jappe2@kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:15 -!- Jappe2 [jappe2@kapsi.fi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:25 -!- strages [~strages@wifi.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:51 -!- devrandom [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:59 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-79-43.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:11 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:38 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone. 17:42 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-79-43.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 19:25 -!- phreedom [~quassel@109.254.17.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:29 -!- phreedom [~quassel@109.254.17.41] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:45 < kanzure> back 19:47 -!- wrldpc2 [~benny@58-89-241-19.nttmil.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:07 < kanzure> submitted my ycombinator application 20:35 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil] 20:46 < wrldpc2> if anyone stumbles across artilect war pl0x holler 20:47 -!- wrldpc2 [~benny@58-89-241-19.nttmil.net] has quit [Quit: wrldpc2] 20:50 -!- strages [~strages@wifi.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:53 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:19 -!- klafka [~textual@cpe-66-66-10-44.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:22 -!- klafka [~textual@cpe-66-66-10-44.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:52 -!- strages [~strages@c-71-207-215-204.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:53 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:04 -!- timschmidt [~timschmid@h184-61-46-42.mdsnwi.tisp.static.tds.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:20 -!- klafka [~textual@cpe-66-66-10-44.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:24 -!- strages [~strages@c-71-207-215-204.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:25 -!- strages [~strages@c-71-207-215-204.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:05 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 23:14 -!- strages [~strages@c-71-207-215-204.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:15 -!- strages [~strages@c-71-207-215-204.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:16 -!- sebastienb [~sbailard@206.248.158.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:18 < sebastienb> Hi all. kanzure, you about? 23:22 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:24 < sebastienb> Any gitduino devs about? 23:24 < sebastienb> :D 23:40 < sebastienb> jrayhawk, ping? 23:45 < jrayhawk> hello! 23:45 < sebastienb> How goes it? 23:46 -!- strages [~strages@c-71-207-215-204.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46 < sebastienb> I was wondering how gitduino is coming along? 23:46 < sebastienb> :D 23:47 -!- strages [~strages@c-71-207-215-204.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:48 < jrayhawk> I'm not well informed about gitduino; its relationship to my project management stuff is confusing and I don't keep track of it anyway. It's possible Bryan has the codebase up somewhere, let me see... 23:49 < sebastienb> I've been figuring that self-hosting will be one of the major waypoints. 23:51 < sebastienb> I'm hoping that we'll be doing up a blog.reprap.org intro to it soon. 23:52 < sebastienb> One of the requirements we need to switch over is co-maintainers, so there's a payoff to announcing it, once it's got the usability to make it interesting. 23:53 < jrayhawk> I don't see a published repo for it, so I'm probably about as informed as you. It's possible Bryan has specific features he's waiting on from me; if he does, you can feel free to bug me on his behalf or whatever. 23:54 < sebastienb> I emailed Bryan yesterday. I'll try pinging him again tomorrow. 23:54 < sebastienb> (The mediawiki has been driving me up the wall for ~5 years ...) 23:57 < sebastienb> jrayhawk, I think I'll be signing off. It's a bit late, and I've got a busy day tomorrow. 23:57 < jrayhawk> Last I heard, gitduino is a sort of a nice wrapper for piny anyway, so if you want something primitive working now and have a VPS lying around, I can install that for you. 23:57 < jrayhawk> install piny, i mean --- Log closed Mon Mar 21 00:00:03 2011