--- Log opened Wed Mar 30 00:00:10 2011
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03:12 < fenn> yep, definitely don't want to be using ssh over a touchscreen
03:13 < fenn> i wonder why small chording keyboards aren't more popular
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03:36 < ybit> there are no laws for working on with neural tissue at your house right?
03:38 < ybit> you could order an MEA, coatings, adhesives, some culture and go at it
03:38  * ybit thinks
03:46 < fenn> there are MTA's for tissue culture. also you need other stuff to keep the culture alive, like antibiotics, which aren't hard to get but aren't grocery store items either
03:46 < fenn> and there are laws about chopping up mice for science, even if wanton killing for the sake of killing is perfectly fine. go figure
03:56 < fenn> "The statute prohibits the killing of a newborn dog or cat whose eyes have not yet opened by any other method than by the use of chloroform vapor or by inoculation of barbiturates."  clearly, what better method could we possibly come up with
03:58 < fenn> "This statute prohibits the sale of horsemeat for human consumption. No  restaurant, cafe, or other public eating place may offer horsemeat for sale for human consumption. A first time violation is a misdemeanor"
04:01 < splicer> state legislature?
04:05 < fenn> jeez, selling burro/mule meat is a felony
04:05 < fenn> in california
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04:23 < splicer> In the bioethics commission hearings there was a muslim scholar who mentioned that in islam an embryo becomes a person 'when the liver is moist', so they had less of a problem with embryonic stemcell research than the christians where it's murder the second after sperm meets egg.
04:24 < uniqanomaly__> retards
04:24 < splicer> yupp
04:48 < splicer> don't know where I'd draw the line myself though... when there is a nervous system maybe.
04:49 < uniqanomaly__> heh
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04:59 < fenn> (more touchscreen ranting) omg is this really the best our civilization can do http://www.schuylersmonsterblog.com/2009/05/pinkessa-and-purple-cow.html
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05:55 < dbolser> http://sbml.org/SBML_Software_Guide/SBML_Software_Matrix
05:55 < dbolser> This matrix provides an at-a-glance summary of software known to us to provide some degree of support for reading, writing, or otherwise working with SBML.
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06:23 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone.
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08:56 < kanzure> drug smuggling using submarines http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2386761
08:57 < kanzure> "narcosubs"
08:57 < kanzure> haha an open source narcosub
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10:27 < mayko> http://smallerquestions.blogspot.com/2011/03/virus-killers-are-virophages-alive.html
10:27 < mayko> viruses are so awesome and they just keep getting more awesome rite?
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10:32 < kanzure> heh an fpga blade server for high-frequency trading http://www.stoneridgetechnology.com/products/pci-e-development-boards/hft-development-kit/
10:39 < kanzure> "Last night John Stewart interviewed Neuroscientist Miguel about his work in creating cybernetic exoskeletons for quadriplegics.cybernetic"
10:39 < kanzure> http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-29-2011/miguel-nicolelis
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13:45 < kanzure> i imagine this is roughly the right experience for a 'commit slider' on something like gitduino:
13:45 < kanzure> http://repoplay.com/tree/joshuaclayton/blueprint-css
13:46 < kanzure> except with 3d rendering and github's image diffs:
13:46 < kanzure> https://github.com/cameronmcefee/Image-Diff-View-Modes/commit/8e95f70c9c47168305970e91021072673d7cdad8
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13:59 < Utopiah> http://blog.wolfram.com/2011/03/30/launching-a-new-era-in-large-scale-systems-modeling/
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15:45 < kanzure> marcin on the forbes blags:
15:45 < kanzure> http://blogs.forbes.com/jeffmcmahon/2011/03/27/physicist-designs-diy-green-utopia-construction-set/
15:46 < kanzure> haha uspto dashboard: http://www.uspto.gov/dashboards/patents/main.dashxml
15:47 < kanzure> all of these meters are completely arbitrary, so why use those images in the first place?
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17:59 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone.
18:06 < JayDugger> RE: repoplay, image diffs, that seems a good idea. Have you seen a 3d version of github's diffs?
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19:39 < JayDugger> Good night, everyone.
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20:02 < kanzure> oh i was completely ignoring this
20:02 < kanzure> http://blog.wolfram.com/2011/03/30/launching-a-new-era-in-large-scale-systems-modeling/
20:02 < kanzure> but it turns out wolfram bought modelica
20:02 < kanzure> or a company specializing in mathematica-flavored modelica
20:03 < kanzure> "Each component has certain properties and behaviors. But the main idealization—central for example to most existing engineering—is that the components interact with each other only in very definite ways."
20:03 < kanzure> "It doesn’t matter whether the components are electrical, hydraulic, thermodynamic, chemical or whatever. If one looks at models that are used, there are typically just two parameters: one representing some kind of effort, and another some kind of flow."
20:03 < kanzure> for those counting at home there's lots of code in skdb about this
20:05 < fenn> actually no, we never did that
20:05 < fenn> it would have been nice though
20:09 < kanzure> all i said is that there was lots of code written
20:09 < kanzure> by "lots" i probably mean "some"
20:10 < kanzure> h+ might be doing fundraising for "my" open source dna synthesizer project
20:10 < kanzure> i don't really have a project like that
20:10 < kanzure> so uh, what do i do? can i give you the money
20:16 < fenn> um, what.
20:16 < fenn> how much? $20k?
20:25 < kanzure> probably more
20:26 < kanzure> but probably less than $100k
20:26 < kanzure> the project is totally undefined
20:26 < kanzure> they were originally wanting to do a wearable scouter but since i didn't bring them information fast enough..
20:27 < kanzure> well they would probably still be open to it
20:29  * fenn waves his magic hands in the air
20:29 < fenn> mumbo jumbo roshambo
20:29 < fenn> and tada! a plan appears!
20:32 < fenn> i am more interested in the wearable project atm
20:33 < fenn> was reading about stenotype last night, pretty sure there are a gazillion ways to improve on it
20:34 < fenn> it's not really fair to compare key-presses per second to symbols per second to phonemes/briefs per second
20:35 < fenn> i wish people used the appropriate units more often
20:38 < fenn> since when did dictionary definitions take up 20 pages and have multiple diagrams and photographs? http://www.websters-dictionary-online.org/definitions/Keyboard%20%28computing%29?cx=partner-pub-0939450753529744%3Av0qd01-tdlq&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=Keyboard%20(computing)
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20:43 < kanzure> fenn: they would need some sort of project document before approving it
20:43 < kanzure> so, i'm trying to figure out how to make this look less like a scam
20:43 < kanzure> because if you were to actually do proper fundraising, you might as well raise enough money to pay normal market rates for tech dev
20:44 < kanzure> but presumably people work on open source projects because they (to some extent) subsidize their time (their cost) to work on something they think is meaningful/useful
20:44 < kanzure> otoh this could totally blow up and be disasterous and more like a consulting project (which *must* be avoided)
20:49 < fenn> why the sudden desire by h+ to actually do something?
20:49 < kanzure> tom got promoted to executive director and crashed at my place for sxsw for a week
20:50 < kanzure> wherein i explained to him that he was totally fucked and wouldn't be able to do anything
20:50 < kanzure> "so you do realize they can fire you at any time, right? it was in the terms"
20:50 < kanzure> "yeah, so?"
20:50 < kanzure> "well it means you can't piss off the board"
20:50 < kanzure> "so?"
20:50 < kanzure> "well, you can't really do anything"
20:50 < kanzure> so i guess he's on a mission to prove otherwise
20:50 < fenn> uh, congrats i guess
20:51 < kanzure> i could care less
20:51 < kanzure> as to where the money comes from, i mean.
20:51 < kanzure> it's better if it goes to something relevant
20:52 < kanzure> i gave them this list a few months ago:
20:52 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diytranshuman_projects.v4.html
20:52 < kanzure> which is where they got the dna synthesizer idea from i guess
20:54 < kanzure> for the gada prizes i wrote some technical-schmetual legal bullshit http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/gadastuff/
20:54 < kanzure> i suppose something like that would be written for whatever project i help define and/or implement
20:54 < kanzure>  
20:54 < kanzure> reprapgrandprize.v0.3.pdf	08-Feb-2011 19:18 	225K	
20:54 < kanzure> eek ignore
20:56 < fenn> i'm sort of discouraged by goertzel's comments along the lines of "chill out dude, it's expected that we screw the people working for us"
20:57 < fenn> at least if i have zero funding i know that it's going to remain zero
20:57 < kanzure> well ideally this would be a one-time transfer of money, with no management overhead
20:57 < kanzure> the upside is that humanity+ gets some of the "credit" or whatever
20:59 < fenn> so i'll make some spiffy designerly drawings or something
20:59 < kanzure> if there is management overhead involved then i'd recommend not doing it
20:59 < kanzure> well, be honest, what should we actually be doing with money for a hardware project
20:59 < fenn> define "we"
20:59 < kanzure> "we" as people in this room deciding what to do with some money
21:00 < kanzure> to me it seems like paying for the equivalent work of hardware packaging
21:00 < kanzure> plus implementation and testing and maybe a few prototypes
21:00 < kanzure> (not mass production of kits, unless you or someone else wanted to do that.. uhm.)
21:00 < fenn> (the bottom fell out of the reprap market...)
21:00 < kanzure> what?
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21:01 < fenn> part sets are selling for $50-100 on ebay
21:01 < kanzure> nice
21:01 < fenn> not incl electronics etc
21:01 < kanzure> huh? then what parts
21:01 < fenn> plastic parts
21:01 < kanzure> plastic-hard-to-source stuff? ok
21:02 < fenn> i want to help anselm build a utilimaker based pipetting robot
21:02 < kanzure> is he still living with you
21:02 < fenn> yes
21:02 < kanzure> yeah that sounds reasonable
21:03 < kanzure> i'm sort of worried about an anselm+fenn mashup though, sounds dangerous
21:03 < fenn> it is
21:04 < fenn> he's manic, i'm depressed, together we form the ultimate axis of causality!
21:04 < kanzure> we'd need to figure out how to make some sort of transfer of the money from h+
21:04 < fenn> kanzure there's so much stuff going on in the bay area
21:05 < fenn> how can it be that i'm the only person H+ knows that can actually do stuff?
21:05 < kanzure> because h+ is full of fucking shit?
21:05 < fenn> but they're swimming in "where it's at"
21:05 < kanzure> no they're not
21:05 < kanzure> "OMG WE JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT IPHONES!!!"
21:06 < kanzure> "AUGMENTED REALITY IS GOING TO BE THE FUTURE!!!"
21:06 < fenn> "PENTALOBULAR SCREWS!!!"
21:06 < kanzure> so wait, h+ seems unlikely to just hand over money
21:07 < kanzure> "no we raised the money so we're going to be in control of it" seems very likely
21:07 < fenn> of course
21:07 < kanzure> heh one way it might work is that i can set you (or someone else) up on a retainer with them
21:08 < kanzure> and basically they will be contractually obligated to fund whatever the fuck you're doing
21:08 < kanzure> of course, this is a hard sale to make
21:08 < kanzure> but it's probably the only one that would work
21:08 < fenn> gosh that would be nice
21:08 < fenn> like the disney imagineers
21:08 < kanzure> even if there's some certain set of deliverables i can't imagine that would turn out nice
21:09 < kanzure> i don't mean to be rude but i doubt you have sufficient experience with "deliverable negotiations" like that :p
21:09 < fenn> no, i have no idea how to estimate anything
21:09 < kanzure> when i do deliverables on consulting projects, my clients usually complain
21:10 < fenn> without deliverables though you're stuck with hourly wages which is a perverse incentive, and stupid
21:10 < fenn> otherwise you're stuck with feature creep and revisionism
21:10 < kanzure> right
21:10 < kanzure> which is definitely what would happen.
21:11 < fenn> "ok now make it shoot lasers from the eyeballs"
21:11 < kanzure> contracts are supposed to prevent that, but ha ha
21:11 < fenn> contracts are supposed to define what you're doing, aka deliverables
21:11 < kanzure> another way to do this would be to have humanity+ put me in control of the money
21:12 < kanzure> since i "work for them"
21:12 < kanzure> and just be subject to quarterly reviews (or w/e)
21:13 < kanzure> would that work?
21:13 < fenn> are you still "director of research"?
21:13 < kanzure> yep
21:13 < kanzure> AND DEVELOPMENT
21:13 < kanzure> jeesh get it right
21:13 < fenn> *cough* bullshit whatver *cough* okay
21:14 < kanzure> :p
21:14 < kanzure> i think this is the only way it's likely to work
21:14 < fenn> (side note, i think h+ should fund an impartial review of various nootropics)
21:15 < kanzure> my time is taken up on hopper right now, so basically my role would be 'protecting fenn (or whoever else) from bullshit and cutting giant checks'
21:15 < fenn> you know, make it all classy and statistically significant
21:15 < kanzure> or hell significant, at all?
21:15 < fenn> deltaself.com is doing something along those lines
21:16 < fenn> how the hell do these people not talk to each other
21:16 < fenn> fenn's previous roommate, meet fenn's previous roomate, meet fenn's current roomate
21:16  * fenn sighs
21:17 < fenn> is todd huffman still involved at all?
21:17 < kanzure> no he's dropped off the board and presumably has lost interest
21:18 < fenn> http://www.deltaself.com/2011/03/im-recruiting-are-you-interested-in-a-self-experimentation-study/
21:18 < kanzure> so, they're putting together a letter header to grantmakers or whatever
21:18 < kanzure> to get a large donation ($100k ish)
21:18 < kanzure> and presumably there's a need for a more formal understanding of what you or i want to do
21:19 < fenn> well that depends on what they want me to do, doesn't it?
21:19 < kanzure> rather than a vague line about WEARABLESeleventyone
21:19 < kanzure> wrong attitude dude, it should be "here is what i am doing and bryan should make money appear for this"
21:19 < fenn> oh, i know exactly what the wearable project is going to look like
21:20 < fenn> i will sit down and splain it tonight
21:20 < kanzure> maybe tom will join the channel in a few minutes
21:20 < fenn> i meant with pictures, since i know h+ can't read
21:21 < kanzure> READIN UR MIND, WITH txtPIX
21:21 < ybit> fenn: i want to know what you plan on doing for input
21:21 < fenn> d(-_-)b
21:22 < fenn> ybit: plan A is to chop two dell keyboards in half and strap one to each thigh; plan B is something like a steno keyboard cut in half on each thigh
21:22 < ybit> i've been thinking on this the past few days while drinking with friends, which basically means i was talking to myself
21:22 < fenn> plan C involves head mounted accelerometer/magnetometer, eye tracking and blink detection
21:22 < kanzure> calling him..
21:23  * ybit is afk for ~10mins
21:24 < fenn> plan B.5 is something like http://www.sigchi.org/chi97/proceedings/paper/fkm.htm
21:24 < kanzure> well that's dumb. if you're away from your computer, you should label yourself as away
21:24 < fenn> i'd probably use /away more if irssi automatically turned it off when i started typing
21:24 < kanzure> tom's im client lists him as available
21:25 < kanzure> but he was sleeping
21:26 < fenn> regarding plan B.5 i don't get why nobody has used wacom style position measurement for fingers
21:26 < fenn> wireless, no power usage in the rings
21:27 < fenn> anyway, that's real technology development; i'm just putting together glorified lego bricks
21:30 < fenn> is tom going to join? or should i go make breakfast?
21:30 < kanzure> he's sleeping
21:30 < fenn> okay, bbl
21:30 < ybit> i don't think a or b are good options
21:31 < fenn> that's nice
21:31 < ybit> well, b is okay i guess
21:31 < ybit> coding with a steno doesn't seem like it would be fun
21:31 < fenn> no, you have to learn it first
21:31 < kanzure> most people will just complain that virtual keyboards on smartphones are good enough (they're not)
21:32 < fenn> omg i just spent like 3 hours torturing myself with the android keyboards last night
21:32 < fenn> they are NOT good enough
21:32 < kanzure> what are you doing using an android? don't you know better
21:32 < ybit> hrm...
21:32 < fenn> yes i know better, but i wanted music on my phone
21:32 < fenn> it was mostly to confirm my suspicions
21:33  * fenn makes more excuses
21:34 < ybit> b.5 sounds interesting
21:35 < ybit> as does plan c
21:35  * ybit would have a difficult time with the blinking
21:36 < ybit> can has eeg headband?
21:37 < kanzure> eeg is useless for this
21:37 < kanzure> no thanks
21:42 < ybit> off-topic
21:42 < ybit> activism
21:42 < ybit> what are your (anyone) thoughts on it?
21:43 < ybit> let's take this bradley manning case e.g.
21:44 < ybit> the rallies bring about media attention, but what change are you making outside of adding an arrest case to your record
21:53 < fenn> hint: don't brag about giving away state secrets
21:56 < ybit> don't think i'll ever be in his shoes, i was trying to figure out the motivations behind protesters
21:57 < ybit> still working on that
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--- Log closed Thu Mar 31 00:00:10 2011