--- Log opened Wed Apr 27 00:00:10 2011 00:04 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:06 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:17 < jrayhawk> so it's looking like I'd incur a downtime of several hours if I attempted to shutdown/tar everything over/start up; since you're mostly static files, would you like me to tar everything over, shut down, tar a small selection of files over, and start up, or is several hours of downtime okay? 00:17 < fenn> http://worlddominationsummit.com/ this would be a fun event to stage a hostage crisis 00:18 < fenn> hey joe, um, how's it going 00:18 < jrayhawk> hello 00:18 < jrayhawk> i am alive thanks for asking 00:20 < kanzure> several hours is ok 00:20 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:20 < kanzure> is tarring enough? 00:20 < jrayhawk> oh good, less work for me 00:20 < kanzure> actually, you should ask fenn too 00:21 < fenn> i dont have anything running afaik 00:21 < kanzure> ok 00:21 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:21 < kanzure> yep sounds good 00:21 < fenn> except this screen/irssi here 00:21 < kanzure> fenn: you can move to cysteine temporarily if you want.. 00:21 < kanzure> or neuroblastoma 00:21 < jrayhawk> neuroblastoma will be stabler. 00:21 < jrayhawk> cysteine changes addresses. 00:22 < fenn> will gnusha.org keep the same ip? 00:23 < jrayhawk> Yeah. 00:24 -!- kanzure_ [~goonie@neuroblastoma.cs.pdx.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:24 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:25 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:25 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:26 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:35 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] has quit [Quit: "THAT DOES IT, THAT'S IT. THIS PLANET IS HISTORY."] --- Log opened Wed Apr 27 06:09:07 2011 06:09 -!- gnusha [~gnusha@131.252.130.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:09 -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: http://gnusha.org/skdb/ http://groups.google.com/group/diybio http://bit.ly/diybionews http://gitduino.com/ http://gadaprize.org/ | logs: http://gnusha.org/logs/ 06:09 -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] [Thu Jan 20 10:44:20 2011] 06:09 [Users ##hplusroadmap] 06:09 [ AJollyLife] [ devrandom ] [ Jappe2 ] [ mayko ] [ streety ] 06:09 [ AlonzoTG ] [ drazak ] [ JayDugger ] [ mjr ] [ Technicus ] 06:09 [ augur ] [ elmom ] [ jebba ] [ nchaimov] [ uniqanomaly] 06:09 [ bkero ] [ epitron ] [ jenzebubble] [ nsh ] [ Utopiah ] 06:09 [ CIA-92 ] [ ferrouswheel] [ jrabbit ] [ pasky ] [ ybit ] 06:09 [ cluckj ] [ gnusha ] [ jrayhawk ] [ QuantumG] 06:09 [ dbolser ] [ Helleshin ] [ kanzure__ ] [ saurik ] 06:09 -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 33 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 33 normal] 06:09 -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010 06:09 -!- Irssi: Join to ##hplusroadmap was synced in 5 secs 06:12 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:13 -!- klord [~klord@fw1-aus1.rackspace.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:15 -!- klafka1 [~textual@cpe-66-66-10-44.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:18 -!- klord [~klord@fw1-aus1.rackspace.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:19 -!- klord [~klord@fw1-aus1.rackspace.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:22 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:27 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:30 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:58 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:42 -!- strages [c6740838@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.116.8.56] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:45 -!- mayko [~mayko@71-22-217-151.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:58 -!- mayko [~mayko@71-22-217-151.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:04 -!- klord [~klord@fw1-aus1.rackspace.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04 -!- klord [~klord@fw1-aus1.rackspace.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:55 < kanzure> well that's just fucking great, 08:55 < kanzure> how am i supposed to get home now without SETI 08:56 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:59 -!- Lukas_ [8131c185@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.49.193.133] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:59 -!- Lukas_ is now known as Guest22029 09:02 -!- Guest22029 [8131c185@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.49.193.133] has quit [Client Quit] 09:08 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:23 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:24 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-79-43.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:35 -!- panax [panax@131.247.13.196] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:49 -!- mayko [~mayko@71-22-217-151.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:03 -!- mayko [~mayko@71-22-217-151.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:06 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Excess Food] 10:06 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:07 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 10:08 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:09 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 10:09 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:17 -!- Tyrant [freenode@s83.seattle.pd.wastate.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:19 < kanzure> hello Tyrant 10:19 < Tyrant> hey kanzure 10:20 < Tyrant> how's life 10:56 -!- mayko [~mayko@71-22-217-151.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:05 -!- panax [panax@131.247.13.196] has quit [] 11:14 -!- strages [c6740838@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.116.8.56] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:26 < kanzure> time python -c 'import esolid; solid1 = esolid.bryan_read_file("desolid/boxinp1"); solid2 = esolid.bryan_read_file("desolid/cylinp7"); solid1.boolean(solid2, "U")' &> esolid_output.txt 11:26 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/esolid_output.txt 11:59 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/shots/2011-04-27-1357-boolean-nurbs.png 12:35 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:37 < kanzure> um why did i use the union? that doesn't demonstrate what's going on.. at all 12:37 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:41 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/shots/2011-04-27-1440-boolean-nurbs-difference.png 13:09 < kanzure> next thing on my todo list is figuring out how to check my python versions against the swigged versions 13:09 < kanzure> since swig won't accept my ArbitraryPatch against its _SWIGGED_K_PATCH object 13:17 -!- jenzebubble is now known as jennicide 13:47 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:05 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:44 < kanzure> how do i make up unit tests when i don't know what the values should be? 14:52 -!- augur [~augur@pool-74-96-30-54.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:58 -!- jrabbit [~babyseal@unaffiliated/jrabbit] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 14:58 -!- jrabbit [~babyseal@unaffiliated/jrabbit] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:00 -!- augur [~augur@pool-74-96-30-54.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:30 -!- klafka1 [~textual@cpe-66-66-10-44.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:35 -!- klord [~klord@fw1-aus1.rackspace.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59 -!- augur [~augur@pool-74-96-10-24.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:09 -!- klafka1 [~textual@cpe-66-66-10-44.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:22 -!- augur [~augur@pool-74-96-10-24.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:35 -!- fenn [~fenn@131.252.130.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:39 < fenn> "Given a CSG-tree of primitive solids, ESOLID performs exact boundary evaluation and returns the B-rep of resulting solid." but don't you want to start with an arbitrary brep, not primitives? 16:40 < fenn> i.e. can you load in a step file and start modifying it 16:43 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.6.161] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:44 < kanzure> fenn: esolid doesn't support STEP, no 16:44 < kanzure> it just does boolean operations on b-reps 16:44 < kanzure> esolid itself provides a few primitives like cylinders and cubes and not much for specifying your own arbitrary shapes, 16:45 < fenn> but can you theoretically load a brep? 16:45 < kanzure> yes 16:45 < kanzure> the primitives are breps as well, like the surface of the cylinder 16:46 < fenn> ok 16:46 < kanzure> i have a swig interface file and a maybe 30% complete rewrite of esolid in python 16:47 < kanzure> the wrapper is obviously separate but might be usable as a way to test "known good" 16:48 < fenn> does it have a copyright license at all? 16:48 < kanzure> no 16:48 < kanzure> that's why i started on a rewrite 16:48 < fenn> hum. you could ask the guy to put it under a permissive license 16:49 < kanzure> this is the dude: http://faculty.cse.tamu.edu/keyser/ 16:50 < fenn> looks like he's using it for 3d neuron reconstruction 16:50 < kanzure> yeah i think he's somehow involved in todd's diamond-knife-edge-microscope group at tamu.edu 16:51 < fenn> i thought the name was familiar but i might just be imagining it 16:51 < fenn> i need to set up namazu or some other search engine; grep takes too long 16:52 < kanzure> so.. strategy suggestions? 16:53 < fenn> for rewrite? 16:53 < kanzure> yeah 16:53 < fenn> 1) define the problem. 2) solve the problem 16:54 < kanzure> i don't know how people write this sort of code 16:54 < kanzure> a lot of it is fairly repetitive in an obvious way; why didn't they abstract it away 16:54 < kanzure> furthermore how can they keep these huge logic trees in their heads 16:54 < kanzure> did they just write once and it worked magically the first time? 16:55 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:02 < kanzure> email sent to keyser.. 17:03 < kanzure> so i see a few possible strategies: 17:03 < kanzure> 1) continue rewriting the entire implementation into python and pray that it works eventually 17:04 < kanzure> 2) just write a giant wrapper over the esolid library (there's also some builtin BRLCAD hooks??) 17:04 < kanzure> 3) use the wrapper to help test #1? 17:05 < kanzure> 4) just write random unit tests until things make sense 17:05 < fenn> #4 sounds most promising 17:07 < kanzure> so how would a unit test for "cube1" and "cube2" and "operation" look like? 17:07 < kanzure> would i hard-code the expected resulting solid? 17:09 < kanzure> hmm i could count the number of times the two solids intersect each other, and check that number 17:13 < QuantumG> I don't know how applicable this is to you, but I would recommend putting an id in every object that monotonically increases 17:14 < QuantumG> then do all you can to ensure there's no randomness in the system (for example, containers often do silly things like sorting by pointers when no sorting is specified.. heaps are known to be nondeterministic in some implementations) 17:14 < QuantumG> that way, when you get a crash, you can say "where did object with id 73432 come from?" 17:14 < kanzure> i'm at a more basic level at the moment.. 17:15 < kanzure> "how do i avoid writing 20,000 lines of code before i know if anything works" 17:15 < QuantumG> yeah, if you're trying to replace a library that doesn't have anything good to test it with, that's painful. 17:16 < kanzure> i don't like that answer! blah 17:16 < QuantumG> piecemeal replacement can work 17:16 < QuantumG> although you'll spend a lot of time making your new code compatible with the old code. 17:16 < kanzure> where i hardcode data until i can generate the right results? 17:16 < kanzure> or do you mean replace their versions with my own until i've gutted the entire program? 17:16 < QuantumG> yeah 17:17 < kanzure> well i can just drop a python intrepreter into esolid and replace core library functions with my python versions (well, not really, since i've adopted various python idioms) 17:17 < QuantumG> but, in general, you just write test program that only exercise one or two parts of the library.. then write those functions in your own library and demonstrate you get the same results from the test case. 17:18 < QuantumG> rinse and repeat 17:18 < kanzure> that seems really repetitive especially when the code looks like: 17:18 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/refactored0.txt 17:19 < QuantumG> wtf is with the magic numbers 17:19 < kanzure> hell if i know 17:19 < QuantumG> what's a type 1 or a type 2 or a type 3? 17:19 < kanzure> someone's inability to do typing? 17:19 < QuantumG> :) 17:19 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-79-43.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:20 < QuantumG> oh, and I *love* people who don't understand operator precedence so they put parens around everything 17:20 < kanzure> maybe i'll try the "hard code some data until you can be reasonably sure that your functions are spitting out the same results" 17:20 < kanzure> ((((true) or (fals)) or (false)) and not (true))))))) 17:39 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-79-43.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:41 -!- mayko [~mayko@71-22-217-151.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:46 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:52 -!- augur_ [~augur@208.58.6.161] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:52 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.6.161] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16 < AJollyLife> ugh. I have no idea if I'll be in boston or fl in two weeks time, whcih makes it impossible to buy plane tickets for H+ nyc 18:23 < kanzure> why are you going 18:29 < AJollyLife> kanzure: why not? 18:30 < AJollyLife> i like cons and meeting people, and I don't have any other con scheduled for that weekend 18:37 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:51 < QuantumG> i like cons and meeting people <- visit an inmate 18:54 < jrayhawk> Bryan: we just fixed your repo name size limit in piny, and the transient underlay stuff is working much better; should I do an upgrade of it on gnusha? 18:55 < jrayhawk> s/limit/\0 bug/ 18:56 < kanzure> upgrading would be cool, thanks 18:56 < kanzure> i also don't think it would break anything by upgrading? 18:58 < jrayhawk> Nope. 18:58 < jrayhawk> Or, rather, breakage will be fairly temporary. 19:09 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:19 -!- ybit [~ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:25 -!- Technicus [~technicus@DSLPool-net209-116.wctc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29 -!- ybit [~ybit@li171-72.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:38 -!- klafka1 [~textual@cpe-66-66-10-44.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:38 -!- klafka1 [~textual@cpe-66-66-10-44.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:07 < jrayhawk> I can also add the patch to Ikiwiki that makes it merely complain about an empty master rather than die. 20:07 < jrayhawk> at which point you can clean out the git template and not have to do the denynonfastforwards nonsense 20:08 -!- augur_ [~augur@208.58.6.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15 -!- jmil [~jmil@pool-173-59-71-85.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:32 -!- klafka1 [~textual@cpe-66-66-10-44.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:42 -!- klafka1 [~textual@cpe-66-66-10-44.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:43 -!- CryptoQuick [~CryptoQui@c-174-51-232-237.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:06 -!- mayko [~mayko@71-22-217-151.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:12 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:40 -!- jmil [~jmil@pool-173-59-71-85.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jmil] 21:51 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:06 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:07 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:11 -!- mayko [~mayko@71-22-217-151.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:12 -!- klafka1 [~textual@cpe-66-66-10-44.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:18 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:39 -!- klafka1 [~textual@cpe-66-66-10-44.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:09 -!- mjr [mjr@2001:1bc8:102:60d4:21b:fcff:fe32:5eda] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:09 -!- mjr [mjr@2001:1bc8:102:60d4:21b:fcff:fe32:5eda] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:38 -!- mayko [~mayko@71-22-217-151.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:50 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil] 23:50 -!- mayko [~mayko@71-22-217-151.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Thu Apr 28 00:00:07 2011