--- Log opened Sun Aug 07 00:00:14 2011
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05:47 < delinquentme> anyone know what a "low-z" material is?
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08:11 < delinquentme> kanzure, im about to write an email to andressen horowitz
08:12 < delinquentme> im trying to decide if i should make the email more imressive sounding or cut more shit out
08:16 < foucist> delinquentme: limit emails to 2-3 paragraphs
08:17 < delinquentme> foucist, yeah im keeping it to like 4 sentences
08:17 < delinquentme> id like it to be read in its entirety at first glance
08:31 < kanzure> http://vinay.howtolivewiki.com/blog/other/the-gupta-state-failure-management-archive-a-public-resource-for-hard-times-2636
08:32 < kanzure> delinquentme: still waiting for your email so that i can get aubrey and the others in on it
08:33 < delinquentme> perfect
08:36 < foucist> de gray?
08:37 < delinquentme> ya
08:37 < delinquentme> hes a good dude
08:38 < foucist> what's the email about
08:41 < kanzure> delinquentme is looking to work somewhere focusing on legit longevity/rejuvenation/life extension projects
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09:01 < delinquentme> OK!
09:02 < delinquentme> im gonna send it to his personal email ... the one you sent me
09:04 < kanzure> what?
09:04 < kanzure> do you want me to review it first?
09:04 < delinquentme> kaeber@u.washington.edu
09:04 < delinquentme> sure!
09:04 < kanzure> yeah i'm not sure you should email that guy, i'm pretty sure i can hook you up with some better projects than that
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09:04 < kanzure> again shoot me the email so i can get aubrey and steve and the others offering advice
09:04 < kanzure> hi ianmathwiz7
09:05 < delinquentme> http://pastie.org/2334930
09:05 < kanzure> lol dude they won't read pastie or a pastebin
09:05 < delinquentme> hahah no no i have it as a PDF
09:05 < delinquentme> ill email you that
09:05 < ianmathwiz7> hey
09:06 < delinquentme> kanzure, I say hit em all
09:06 < delinquentme> i emailed DNA nexus last night and asked if they've got any public intention to study aging
09:06 < delinquentme> so ill see if that gets a response
09:07 < delinquentme> halcyon id LOVE to work with .. so im working on their internship questions as we speak
09:07 < delinquentme> ( I think if i get my foot in the door i could handle the rest )
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09:15 < kanzure> delinquentme: their internship questions?
09:15 < kanzure> yeah don't do their internship.. that's bogus
09:15 < kanzure> go get an actual position there
09:16 < delinquentme> kanzure, im ok with going in at the humble end
09:16 < delinquentme> and just carve out a niche for what im really good at
09:21 < kanzure> yeah but nobody gets a job by applying lolz
09:21 < kanzure> got your email.. i'll send it up the tubes
09:22 < delinquentme> haha
09:22 < delinquentme> this is true
09:22 < delinquentme> so i shouldnt send it to him?
09:22 < kanzure> delinquentme: eh, i guess.. go ahead
09:23 < kanzure> btw, in your cover letter
09:23 < kanzure> everyone in this community knows peter thiel.. he's not a big deal :P
09:23 < delinquentme> lol whaaat
09:23 < kanzure> oh, also
09:23 < kanzure> please remove your compensation section
09:23 < delinquentme> god yeah id love to be able to claim that
09:23 < kanzure> like, absolutely remove it
09:23 < delinquentme> you dont think thats a good idea?
09:23 < kanzure> no not at all
09:24 < kanzure> it's ok if you want to work for cheap but don't tell them taht
09:24 < kanzure> *that
09:24 < kanzure> jesus
09:24 < kanzure> it shows that you're not valuable
09:24 < delinquentme> good enough
09:24 < kanzure> which isn't the reality.
09:24 < delinquentme> appreciate!
09:25 < delinquentme> ok sweet
09:25 < delinquentme> ima shoot this over to him
09:25 < kanzure> send me back an updated version
09:26 < delinquentme> sure .. i think its safe to assume hes got a doctorate?
09:26 < delinquentme> was going to address it to him
09:27 < delinquentme> yup PHd
09:30 < delinquentme> kanzure,  you got it
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09:40 < fenn> mwahaha
09:49 < kanzure> sup fenn
09:49 < kanzure> delinquentme: hah "An error occurred and your email was not sent" give it a few moments
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09:50 < delinquentme> kanzure, thats perfect
09:51 < kanzure> delinquentme: a few of us in here are gonna work on a collaborative web app
09:51 < delinquentme> rails?
09:51 < kanzure> thesnark, ybit, maybe foucist, Nam-Ereh-Won are sorta sitting around
09:51 < kanzure> yeah
09:51 < delinquentme> yes.
09:51 < kanzure> i figure a 1-month project by 4 people could be much better than just 1 person working on a demo thing
09:51 < delinquentme> that is all haha "yes"
09:52 < kanzure> anyway no particular idea has been finalized yet
09:52 < QuantumG> depends on the 1 person or the 4 people
09:52 < kanzure> either an entry to a competition, something that could make money, or something that couldn't make money but would be cool to have on a resume
09:52 < delinquentme> currently my forte is going to be graphics. UI HTML and jquery
09:52 < kanzure> delinquentme: yeah i know you're a good fit for that :)
09:53 < delinquentme> im pretty good w ruby as well ... and still learning my way about the rails framework
09:53 < kanzure> wait you're new to rails?
09:53 < kanzure> i thought you did web dev
09:53 < delinquentme> oh i've done it .. as well as built apps
09:54 < delinquentme> just i feel its not my strongest category
09:54 < delinquentme> but can i work with it? absolutely
09:54 < kanzure> k
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09:54 < delinquentme> ^^^^^
09:54 < kanzure> hey bdesk
09:54 < kanzure> welcome back
09:55 < bdesk> hi
09:55 < kanzure> delinquentme: so ideas are still open, if there's some itch you've been meaning to scratch.. let's hear it
09:55 < kanzure> i'd like to keep the project under one month in duration
09:56 < kanzure> and, i'd like it to *not* be "free work for some company that needs work done"
09:57 < kanzure> ianmathwiz7: got your email today.. don't forget ##hplusroadmap ;) when talkin' about irc
09:57 < kanzure> but thanks for the shout out.
09:57 < bdesk> didnt this used to be only one # instead of ##
09:58 < klafka> what sort of collaborative web app?
09:58 < klafka> ya
09:58 < bdesk> i tried to join earlier and i just assumed that this channel had somehow disappeared
09:58 < ianmathwiz7> what email, you mean my discussion post?
09:59 < bdesk> like all the transhumanists and singularitarians had decided to just give up, or that the channel had become too mainstream
09:59 < kanzure> bdesk: yep
09:59 < kanzure> ianmathwiz7: yep
09:59 < ianmathwiz7> transhumanists giving up? seems unlikely :P
09:59 < delinquentme> ^^^^
09:59 < klafka> or perhaps they'd already transcended
09:59 < ianmathwiz7> I was mostly focusing on biohack.me on that post
09:59 < kanzure> klafka: haven't decided yet.. could be something totally random, or something specific to our interests
09:59 < klafka> ah
09:59 < bdesk> it was like i was Left Behind
10:00 < delinquentme> yeah kanzure just let me know what you guys want to do
10:00 < kanzure> klafka: the important thing is that everyone should want to work on it
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10:00 < kanzure> hey gedankenstuecke
10:00 < gedankenstuecke> hi
10:00 < kanzure> what's up?
10:00 < klafka> i have been thinking of making an event promotion website, but i am kinda thinking that social networks are sort of a crowded field
10:00 < kanzure> uh.. yeah
10:00 < klafka> there is no good event promotion website anymore though :(
10:01 < kanzure> eventbrite, badgecardly?
10:01 < delinquentme> out for a bit :D ttyl~
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10:01 < gedankenstuecke> sunday afternoon, lazy-time with the cats and irc-idling  ;)
10:01 < klafka> eventbrite is ok, it's much more of a ticket selling website though really
10:02 < bdesk> that is what your event promotion would turn into anyway
10:02 < kanzure> oh i assumed they sold tickets so that they could collect conference data
10:02 < kanzure> are they just doing tickets? that's lame
10:02 < kanzure> one idea is to brighten up http://diyhpl.us:9000/
10:02 < kanzure> and turn that into a real "thing"
10:03 < klafka> hey let's go host and organize that jstor torrent
10:03 < klafka> :P
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10:03 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us:9000/random
10:03 < kanzure> hi evolv
10:03 < evolv> hey
10:03 < evolv> is that where all the cool cats chat?
10:03 < evolv> I wanna be a cool cat
10:03 < bdesk> yes
10:03 < kanzure> we're only cool when you're not here
10:03 < evolv> that's an unfortunate truth
10:04 < kanzure> see /topic for logs
10:04 < bdesk> this is where the young unemployed idealists chat before they get old and take corporate jobs
10:04 < klafka> lol
10:05 < kanzure> yeah i'm kinda surprised about how many of you are unemployed
10:06 < klafka> i'm barely employed
10:06 < klafka> that's almost employed
10:06 < klafka> er unemployed
10:06 < gedankenstuecke> +1
10:19 < kanzure> http://www.labwear.com/shop/fashion-lab-coats.htm
10:19 < kanzure> wasn't there someone who was selling patches and did mail order lab coats with your patches?
10:20 < kanzure> i.e. the patches were things like the logos for diybio, rails, django, python, rubygems logo, atomic science, other things
10:20 < bdesk> does anyone who does diybio actually wear a labcoat
10:21 < kanzure> i saw lab coats hanging up at genspace
10:21 < bdesk> well maybe for the photo ops
10:22 < bdesk> some probably not only wear lab coats, but wear lab coats all the time.
10:23 < bdesk> like when they are cooking or grocery shopping
10:30 < bdesk> if you guys want to do something that is feasible with current technology and might help advance science, and doesnt involve blatantly doing free work for a corporation, then how about setting up a good free legal academic journal system.
10:30 < kanzure> you mean like "open journal system"?
10:30 < kanzure> http://pkp.sfu.ca/?q=ojs
10:30 < bdesk> yeah i didnt know that was a thing
10:30 < bdesk> but i do know that people have thought about this before.
10:31 < bdesk> kanzure: is that project good?
10:31 < kanzure> a lab protocol sharing site might be interesting.. but it's not like a website is going to solve the real problems in that area
10:31 < bdesk> there was openwetware
10:31 < kanzure> bdesk: i know a few people who have used it.. seemed to work
10:31 < kanzure> i haven't looked at the code
10:31 < kanzure> openwetware is still around, but it's just a wiki
10:32 < bdesk> for the free journal system a single website is certainly not enough.
10:33 < bdesk> there are all the intricacies involving the politics among the editors, reviewers, authors, publishers, etc.
10:33 < kanzure> your options are:
10:33 < kanzure> 1) copy something that already works and make it slightly better
10:33 < kanzure> 2) find something that needs to be built that nobody has thought of yet
10:33 < bdesk> are you talking about the journals or the lab protocols
10:33 < kanzure> 3) create something totally new
10:33 < kanzure> just in general for project chocies
10:33 < kanzure> *choices
10:34 < kanzure> you aren't going to solve any significant lab problem in 1 month as far as i can tell ;)
10:34 < Utopiah> is it listed by order of difficulty?
10:34 < kanzure> everything's way too broken there
10:34 < kanzure> no
10:35 < bdesk> I think that there's a lot of inertia behind the current journal system, but that it is possible that it could be stably replaced by a free system.  already peer reviewers do the work for free and authors submit their work without pay.
10:35 < kanzure> a simple/cheesy project might be.. "make a site that reviews android science-related apps, and make a downloadable market app and be that thing in that space"
10:36 < kanzure> bdesk: the real reason that doesn't exist is because nobody is going to submit to your no-name journal
10:36 < bdesk> i agree
10:36 < kanzure> elsevier owns something like 10,000 journals
10:36 < kanzure> the majority of them are 5-10 professors that have known each other for 40+ years
10:36 < bdesk> im not saying that it's simple, just that it could be stable if it could ever become established.
10:37 < kanzure> the problem there isn't making a new system, but rather convincing all of them that something different is better
10:37 < bdesk> kanzure: agreed on all counts, that's where my remark about politics comes from.
10:37 < Utopiah> bdesk: it's long and old but I think well written http://www.arl.org/resources/pubs/mmproceedings/138guedon.shtml
10:38 < kanzure> heh "How Commercial Publishers Managed to Harness the Digital Revolution into a Counterrevolution"
10:41 < klafka> i am still of the opinion that the idea of peer review in its current form needs to be replaced by a more reddit-like organization
10:41 < klafka>  \ social network situation
10:42 < kanzure> huh never knew about cnslp
10:42 < bdesk> I think peer review could stay in its current form.  It's not like the peer reviewers are being paid right now anyway.  Neither are the authors.
10:42 < kanzure> yeah, an experimental peer review site might be fun..
10:42 < kanzure> where you give the link to the reviewers and they write down everything wrong on the site
10:42 < klafka> well bdesk lets think about what the point of peer review
10:42 < klafka> exactly kanzure
10:42 < kanzure> with an ipad app (web view) and other shit
10:43 < klafka> and you can apply points to the paper
10:43 < kanzure> then you can do a peer reviewing economy.. blah blah blah
10:43 < klafka> _however_ points should not be applied equally
10:43 < bdesk> Im just saying that if you want to change the publishing system then it is possible to make it free without also changing the review system.
10:43 < klafka> i agree
10:43 < klafka> but i kind of want to change both
10:43 < klafka> I think peer review is not the best
10:43 < bdesk> If you want to turn it into reddit at the same time, then this will only be more things to change at once.
10:43 < klafka> faceface and i have talk about this a lot
10:44 < kanzure> nobody would use reddit for peer review
10:44 < klafka> bdesk so your basic idea is that cataclysmic change will never work
10:44 < kanzure> what they will want is a private, locked-down login system, etc. etc.
10:44 < klafka> kanzure i'm not saying use reddit
10:44 < klafka> i'm saying a login system tied to your actual credentials
10:44 < klafka> in some cases anonymity on the web is good
10:44 < klafka> sometimes its not
10:44 < bdesk> I'm saying that changing to a free system is cataclysmic enough, as kanzure has pointed out already.  and that redditizing it is unneccesary excess calamity to add to the process.
10:45 < klafka> bdesk it may be the case that you must radicalize past a certain point for people to embark on the process
10:45 < klafka> perhaps it has to be so completely different
10:45 < klafka> no i don't really believe that
10:47 < kanzure> heh "If, through the manipulation of the number of articles in a given database, a publisher manages to affect the rate of use of its own articles, it also stands to reason that this publisher is able to affect the citation rate of its articles."
10:47 < bdesk> I think that the journal system can be replaced by a free system with basically zero difference from the perspective of authors and reviewers.
10:48 < klafka>  agreed
10:48 < klafka> i think bdesk that is slowly happening
10:48 < klafka> honestly
10:48 < kanzure> "The European Union has quietly blocked the merging of Reed-Elsevier with Kluwer that had been announced in October 1997, but the Anglo-Dutch giant has recently acquired Academic Press."
10:48 < klafka> we need the death of IEEE and ACM and Jstor and elsevier
10:50 < kanzure> and acs
10:51 < fenn> there will be a private showing of "limitless" at ardent west tomorrow.. anyone in the bay area?
10:51 < bdesk> is that another kurzweil film
10:51 < kanzure> :( i want to go
10:51 < fenn> no
10:51 < kanzure> bdesk: hell no
10:51 < Utopiah> (and that before they die they open all their usage statistics)
10:51 < fenn> it's about some loser who takes drugs
10:52 < fenn> and then he is not a loser anymore :)
10:52 < kanzure> that's pretty much it..
10:52 < fenn> ok now you dont need to see it
10:54 < fenn> anyone know what the shape in the middle is called? not the icosahedron: http://fennetic.net/irc/icosa_somethingorother.jpg
10:54 < fenn> and inscribed ____
10:55 < bdesk> does it have 20 sides
10:55 < bdesk> faces
10:55 < kanzure> looks like 12 faces?
10:55 < bdesk> dodecahedron?
10:55 < bdesk> is it regular
10:55 < fenn> so it's a regular dodecahedron
10:56 < bdesk> are its faces pentagons
10:57 < fenn> you can see how close i am by how close the white spots are to the center of the triangles
10:57 < fenn> bdesk yeah
10:57 < fenn> can you not see images?
11:00 < fenn> save our race. know the truth! http://anti-dolphin.org/
11:02 < fenn> hmm, youtube-dl is busted
11:02 < kanzure> fenn: the real truth http://web.archive.org/web/20020324181447/http://dolphinsex.org/
11:02 < bdesk> all this time ive been eating non-dolphin-safe tuna because it tastes better, now i know it is also the morally superior choice
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11:06 < fenn> new invention allows humans to live forever!!!!!!!!
11:08 < fenn> "A male dolphin could snap your neck in a accidental thrust, and that would be the end of that relationship.
11:08 < fenn> why the hell am i reading this
11:08 < kanzure> hahahah
11:08 < kanzure> you wanted the truth! it's out there.
11:10 < fenn> i watched enough x-files, thank you
11:13 < kanzure> do you want to join deliquentme, ybit, thesnark and Nam-Ereh-Won on a one-month project?
11:13 < kanzure> the peer review app might work if everyone likes that
11:14 < fenn> no i'm busy
11:14 < kanzure> okie dokie
11:14 < fenn> maybe after burning man
11:14 < fenn> (mid september)
11:14 < kanzure> ooh i'll be back in time for like.. one day of burning man
11:15 < kanzure> oh "sold out" what?
11:15 < kanzure> there's tickets?
11:16 < fenn> pff forget it, you're like 6 months too late
11:16 < fenn> you'd die instantly anyway
11:16 < kanzure> heat?
11:16 < fenn> "what no internet? ah.. ah.. aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrggghh..."
11:17 < kanzure> i'm not that bad without internet access
11:17 < kanzure> but i would be confused: aren't these the cool people who should be carrying around mesh networks and shit?
11:17 < fenn> no internet, phone, running water, air conditioning, and an infestation of hippies who want to hug you with their sweaty dusty patchouli scented bodies
11:18 < fenn> and yes there are cool people who _should_ be carrying around mesh networks
11:18 < fenn> but last year that didnt work so well for me
11:18 < fenn> i could get like one bar of wifi from my dish pointed across the city, managed to get a dhcp lease and like 1 ping to google
11:19 < kanzure> oh google would be cool. i meant local network anyway.
11:21 < fenn> hm it looks like i managed to send some emails from center camp on 2010-09-02
11:21 < klafka> i  had to sell my tickets
11:21 < klafka> ;(
11:29 < kanzure> here's another idea..
11:29 < kanzure> crowdsourced "industrial infrastructure" mapping
11:29 < kanzure> with a mobile app to take photos of factories
11:29 < kanzure> then view the entries on a map online or on the phone
11:29 < kanzure> (so photos of factories and other facilities)
11:30 < kanzure> a nootropics site might be fun
11:31 < klafka> so basically organizing iminst and journal info?
11:31 < kanzure> maybe that, or competitions, or data collection, or sales
11:31 < kanzure> dunno.
11:31 < klafka> ah
11:33 < kanzure> mobile silkroad.. hah
11:34 < kanzure> http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/ etc. etc.
11:41 < fenn> if y'all wanna compile nootropics prices (scrapers would be hot) and present in a clear consistent format, that'd be nice
11:41 < kanzure> what about "complimentary mass spectroscopy and testing"
11:41 < kanzure> eh nevermind that's not gonna happen in a month
11:42 < kanzure> the problem with a shopping aggregator is that it makes me feel grimy/sleezy
11:42 < kanzure> i agree that it would be useful
11:42 < kanzure> fenn: can you link to some sources?
11:43 < kanzure> ebay stores, alibaba users, shady sites?
11:43 < fenn> this is all i got http://fennetic.net/irc/drug_prices
11:44 < fenn> and smart-drugs.net
11:44 < kanzure> smarterdrugs.org is available
11:48 < kanzure> actually, you could probably make an argument that a nootropics site like that should be a subscription service
11:48 < kanzure> "because it's smart to pay for this"
11:48 < kanzure> hah
11:48 < fenn> meh
11:48 < fenn> rather do referral revenue
11:49 < fenn> don't get int he way
11:51 < kanzure> Nam-Ereh-Won: ping
11:53 < Nam-Ereh-Won> pong
11:53 < kanzure> fenn: Nam-Ereh-Won is an old high school friend of mine currently moving into what might be a hosting company job
11:53 < kanzure> prolly what you did for whoever it was
11:53 < fenn> blegh
11:54 < fenn> tell him to ask for more money
11:54 < Nam-Ereh-Won> beats end luser support
11:54 < fenn> oh hi
11:54 < Nam-Ereh-Won> yo
11:54 < kanzure> so i'm trying to convince him to do a project with ybit and thesnark
11:54 < kanzure> possibly this nootropics aggregator shopper thing or the factory mapper
11:55  * fenn mumbles something about giving away all his ideas
11:56 < fenn> i'm manfred macx
11:57 < fenn> god what a terrible book
12:01 < kanzure> what about a site to organize http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/
12:01 < kanzure> deliquentme might like that
12:01 < kanzure> eightpennies is always complaining that nobody reads enough
12:02 < kanzure> i can't think of anything particularly practical though.. i mean that's more like a blog
12:03 < kanzure> gitduino-for-microfluidics (way easier than writing lolcad.. that's for sure)
12:03 < fenn> a site to organize journalz?
12:04 < fenn> but you're not swedish..
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12:08 < kanzure> fenn: how about android marketplace for science apps
12:09 < fenn> um, no
12:09 < kanzure> it's a pretty standard model.. the site does a market app, does reviews/aggregation, etc.
12:09 < kanzure> problem is that most science apps seem to be lame so far
12:09 < fenn> who looks at a website for android apps? nobody, that' swho
12:09 < fenn> nobody^2
12:09 < kanzure> no i'm talking about a market
12:10 < kanzure> it's the same exact model as a debian mirror
12:10 < fenn> so i have to figure out how to install a new market on my phone? not gonna happen
12:10 < kanzure> you click "download" and you're done
12:10 < fenn> well, i dont get it
12:10 < kanzure> the default market app sucks
12:10 < fenn> why not just make some science apps instead?
12:11 < superkuh> Does anyone do anything scientific or engineering related on an android device?
12:11 < fenn> no
12:11 < kanzure> people carry around smartphones into their labs but all the equipment is so old you couldn't interface 'em even if you wanted to
12:11 < kanzure> cowell has been using photography as a way to get people at bosslab to document their work
12:11 < kanzure> photos are posted to a web server
12:11 < fenn> usb to rs232 not good enough?
12:11 < kanzure> and then they are forced/required to tag and comment on what the heck they were doing
12:12 < fenn> ok sure a documentation app
12:12 < fenn> a hackerspace management app
12:12 < kanzure> fenn: well someone on the biologigaragen list was doing a cell counting app.. meh
12:12 < fenn> yes that sounds useful too
12:12 < kanzure> fenn: that's not a "solved" problem even on desktop really
12:12 < fenn> i know, mattyg is working on it
12:13 < fenn> anyway colony counting or bacteria counting is simple
12:13 < kanzure> yup
12:14 < kanzure> oh i wonder if my scraper finished
12:14 < kanzure> for that chemical inventory site
12:14 < kanzure> heh yep
12:14 < kanzure> 1.1 GB
12:15 < kanzure> tarring..
12:16 < QuantumG> careful, you might get someone saying you're racist for using the word "tar"
12:17 < kanzure> heh professorstacks.. a comedy game where you submit pics of your professor's stacks/piles of papers in their offices
12:17 < kanzure> could be dangerous.
12:18 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/quartzy/
12:18 < kanzure> index.txt is 28 MB be careful
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12:18 < kanzure> quartzy_files.tar is 924 MB
12:19 < kanzure> delinquentme: see the backlog for a few ideas of projects.. (1) urban mapping of locations of factories via photo submission and google maps; (2) nootropics shopping aggregator and pricing site; (3) android marketplace for science apps and reviews
12:20 < kanzure> oh and (4) science lab coat embroidery service (i.e. for software logos and other things)
12:21 < delinquentme> oh i thought these were supposed to be directly science / longev related
12:21 < kanzure> they could be
12:21 < delinquentme> should we put everyones resumes up in a single spot?
12:21 < delinquentme> so we know what talent we're working with/
12:21 < kanzure> yeah
12:22 < kanzure> the people are: delinquentme, ybit, thesnark, possibly foucist, possibly Nam-Ereh-Won
12:22 < kanzure> if you have a 1-month project idea for longevity.. let's ehar it
12:22 < kanzure> hear
12:24 < delinquentme> maria kov mentioned making a map
12:24 < delinquentme> something which would allow people to add their own thoughts on the matter
12:24 < kanzure> eh?
12:25 < kanzure> what would that do?
12:25 < delinquentme> we've got the "whos who of biogerontology" available to us
12:25 < kanzure> yeah i've got that database too..
12:25 < klafka> heh
12:26 < delinquentme> map >> allow people to contribute thoughts to what they might do with the extra time
12:26 < kanzure> oh this is from forever ago but i suggested it to ybit
12:26 < kanzure> a lab rat adoption service so that experimentalists don't have to sacrifice 'em
12:26 < delinquentme> but really i think id like to address those who already know they'd like to live longer
12:26 < delinquentme> cute
12:26 < kanzure> (so, the website primarily- not the actual service)
12:27 < kanzure> i mean, not the actual rat keeping
12:27 < fenn> they don't have to sacrifice them
12:27 < fenn> also, they're still useful for other purposes
12:27 < delinquentme>  but dont these rats also have all kinds of stuff running through them
12:27 < delinquentme> they are after all biomedical expiriments
12:27 < delinquentme> personally id like to say lets hit on the angle list
12:27 < kanzure> delinquentme: the cancerous mice and rats? sure..
12:28 < kanzure> what? you don't even have a product lolz why would you post to angel list
12:28 < delinquentme> what information can we provide to the VCs on angle list .. which would be of benefit to them
12:28 < delinquentme> kanzure, i mean look at these guys
12:28 < gedankenstuecke> delinquentme: thats the reason why they have to kill lab animals after your experiments in germany afair
12:28 < delinquentme> as customers
12:28 < delinquentme> say "this is the target market .. these are the guys we want to bring benefit to"
12:29 < kanzure> well someone did and that's why they came up with awful ideas like lunchwithme and shit
12:29 < delinquentme> i bet every last one of them are in some way interested in life extension
12:29 < delinquentme> but why would a vc want to commoditize their time
12:29 < delinquentme> thats a shitty idea
12:29 < delinquentme> what do those VCs want
12:29 < kanzure> i wish i had the link.. it's pretty hilarious
12:30 < delinquentme> we could easily make a service that would provide some kind of graphical representation of whats getting talked about in the DIY bio circles
12:30 < kanzure> they want peopel to stop bugging them with bad ideas, they want to make money, they want to negotiate terms that are good for them
12:30 < kanzure> why would they care about that?
12:30 < delinquentme> information
12:31 < kanzure> if they were going to invest in biotech why would they go to the software circles?
12:31 < kanzure> and much less a non-commercial biotech group?
12:31 < delinquentme> what would make the lives of those VC's who are experienced in biology ... to find more bio ventures .. or to better quantify those that are out there
12:32 < kanzure> "don't invest $80 billion in someone with no product"
12:32 < delinquentme> do we have someone proficient in autocad?
12:33 < delinquentme> there is w/o a doubt money to be made in automation in bio
12:33 < kanzure> i've used a lot of cad tools like autocad, solidworks, pro/engineer, catia, alibre, heekscad, brlcad, opencascade, openscad..
12:33 < delinquentme> sweet
12:33 < kanzure> where do you see that money coming from?? labs are way too cheap
12:33 < fenn> autocad sucks
12:33 < delinquentme> kanzure, the machines out there .. or processes which havnt yet been automated
12:34 < kanzure> that's usually a market problem not an engineering problem
12:34 < kanzure> i.e., the market is so messed up in its structure that they'd rather hire undergrads than buy equipment
12:34 < delinquentme> miniprep  >>  PCR >> gel electro
12:35 < delinquentme> true but at the same time we could make those grads more productive
12:35 < delinquentme> now i've only been in 1 legit lab.. but from what i was told .. the work is all veryyy linear
12:35 < delinquentme> with lots of waiting time
12:35 < fenn> this is what i'm going to be building soonish
12:35 < kanzure> there's lots of monotonous work, sure
12:35 < fenn> something grad students can afford themselves and tell the PI to fuck off
12:35 < kanzure> and i love me my equipment and robotics and automation
12:36 < kanzure> fenn: ok, that might work
12:36 < fenn> and actually make it "actually open source"
12:37 < delinquentme> thats a cool idea
12:37 < fenn> i havent even told you what i'm doing
12:37 < delinquentme> or even if you made something under the chump change number
12:37 < delinquentme> it'd be like a non issue to purchase
12:38 < fenn> obviously you dont understand lab funding politics
12:38 < delinquentme> fenn dont they have a discretionary budget?
12:38 < delinquentme> like "common change" of like $500 or something
12:38 < fenn> you couldn't buy so much as a pair of gloves if it was perceived as unjustified
12:39 < fenn> it depends on the institution
12:39 < delinquentme> in no way would it be unjustified
12:39 < fenn> i said "perceived as"
12:39 < delinquentme> it just wouldnt have to be run through the purchase channels
12:39 < kanzure> no they run everything through the purchase channels
12:39 < kanzure> in fact they sometimes have required 'vendors'
12:39 < kanzure> (vendors that have made deals with the institution and bought their souls, etc.)
12:40 < kanzure> anyway, getting around that by something that the grad studens would buy is an interesting approach
12:41 < kanzure> *students
12:41 < delinquentme> novel for sure
12:41 < delinquentme> are pipettes easy to build?
12:41 < delinquentme> well the usual better / cheaper  deal
12:41 < kanzure> someone posted a spec sheet for pipettes on diybio about 15 months ago
12:42 < kanzure> pipette tips, i mean
12:43 < kanzure> delinquentme: keep thinking about 1-month web/mobile app ideas
12:43 < kanzure> doesn't have to be something that makes money.
12:44 < delinquentme> gilt group for medical equip?
12:44 < delinquentme> doesnt work with the purch structure though
12:44 < delinquentme> yeah ill stash it
12:46 < kanzure> oh there's also my silly password recovery site idea.. the one that automatically switches out your password on 100s of sites
12:46 < Utopiah> (related http://www.leavethenet.com )
12:47 < kanzure> there's another one.. d-something.me.. i can't remember the url
12:47 < kanzure> but they got monies, some cookie deleter.
12:48 < klafka> could you make pippette tubes with 3d printers?
12:48 < kanzure> not as efficiently as the factories :p
12:49 < kanzure> also i think cathal made a microcentrifuge tube on a makerbot or reprap about two years ago
12:49 < kanzure> not quite a pipette tip
12:49 < klafka> aa
12:49 < klafka> well yeah surprisingly not as efficient as factories :P
12:49 < klafka> probably way more costly too
12:50 < klafka> oh hey you guys would probably know, what's a good place to look for job listings for startups/interesting companies in the bay area?
12:51 < delinquentme> y combinator?
12:51 < delinquentme> erm hacker news i mean
12:51 < klafka> they seem to always have very few postings
12:51 < kanzure> news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2831646
12:52 < klafka> ooh that's cool
12:54 < klafka> i'm actually applying for one of those jobs there
12:59 < Utopiah> klafka: are there events organized by local incubators?
12:59 < klafka> no
12:59 < klafka> i am remote
12:59 < klafka> i live in rochester ny
13:00 < klafka> i want to move to sf though
13:00 < klafka> or rather, there probably are there
13:00 < kanzure> there are some fun jobs in nyc.. like stackoverflow
13:00 < kanzure> and makerbot industries is hiring some more web dev knowhow
13:01 < klafka> rochester ny is however 6hrs from nyc
13:02 < klafka> i'm trying to find like entry level data mining / "engineer" jobs
13:02 < kanzure> what the heck is "entry level"
13:02 < kanzure> do you have a resume i can look at?
13:02 < klafka> sure
13:03 < klafka> emailed
13:04 < kanzure> nice
13:04 < kanzure> i like the formatting
13:05 < kanzure> it almost hides the fact that you've only worked in labs
13:05 < klafka> yup
13:05 < klafka> that is my problem, there aren't real jobs here
13:06 < kanzure> welp.. you wanna work on the 1-month project with the others in here?
13:06 < klafka> sure
13:06 < kanzure> pile on.. get some interesting non-research-related project on your resume
13:06 < klafka> yeah i'm also working on extending pyMC
13:06 < kanzure> cool.
13:06 < kanzure> have you used scikit.learn?
13:06 < klafka> i want to extend it for various ensemble MCMC methods
13:07 < klafka> hmm no
13:07 < kanzure> take a look at the crazy stuff going on here
13:07 < kanzure> http://scikit-learn.sourceforge.net/stable/
13:07 < delinquentme> oh kanzure that reminds me
13:07 < klafka> i assume it's built on matplotlib/scipy/numpy
13:07 < delinquentme> another thing i was intersted in
13:07 < kanzure> klafka: actually i don't know, i hope it's on top of scipy :)
13:07 < klafka> hahaha
13:07 < delinquentme> smaller financial planning services ... it would be hella easy to provide montecarlos for them with AWS
13:08 < klafka> interesting kanzure, they don't have a lot of fancy techniques
13:08 < klafka> but very interesting
13:08 < kanzure> there was one that had tooons of crazy algorthims going on
13:08 < kanzure> was it somehow related to nltk? augur might know..
13:09 < klafka> hmm maybe
13:09 < klafka> is nltk any good?
13:09 < kanzure> i used it a few times.. it did what i needed
13:09 < augur> O_O
13:09 < klafka> i was reading the book that goes with it but i got kind of sick of the book
13:09 < augur> what
13:09 < kanzure> hah there's a book!
13:09 < kanzure> alright well that's.. something i'll have to avoid
13:09 < klafka> http://www.nltk.org/book
13:09 < klafka> it was just too much intro to python and intro to nl
13:09 < klafka> nlp
13:09 < evolv> no wonder why nobody talks in bioinfo anymore
13:10 < klafka> evolv i haven't talked in here or there in awhile
13:10 < klafka> actually
13:10 < augur> i dont know jack about nlp
13:10 < delinquentme> hmmm NLP for ruby >>> http://mendicantbug.com/2009/09/13/nlp-resources-for-ruby/
13:10 < kanzure> augur: i thought you did linguistic stuff
13:10 < augur> i do.
13:11 < augur> nlp isnt linguistics
13:11 < kanzure> evolv: yeah this is sort of a crazy channel
13:11 < kanzure> evolv: we swing between "a bunch of losers on irc" and "wait you're using how many terajoules"
13:11 < evolv> :D
13:12 < evolv> sweet, I'm down with that
13:12 < kanzure> augur: :( ok
13:12 < augur> NLP is to Linguistics as the design of genome scanners is to biology
13:12 < augur> not even, because genome scanners might be useful for biologists
13:13 < augur> whereas NLP provides nothing for linguists to use
13:14 < delinquentme> linguistics >> input for the NLP
13:14 < augur> delinquentme: not even
13:15 < augur> NLPers basically ignore linguistics
13:15 < delinquentme> no?
13:15 < delinquentme> how?
13:15 < klafka> augur modern nlp seems totally statistical
13:16 < delinquentme> just saying .. bc that doesnt sound to me like its accurate
13:16 < delinquentme> slash "makes sense"
13:18 < augur> klafka: its not, but NLPers wont let you know that
13:18 < augur> delinquentme: it DOESNT make sense but its pretty much true
13:18 < klafka> ? i mean i guess a;ll the NLP is statistical learning/inference, like CRFs for PoS tagging say
13:18 < delinquentme> augur, so you're saying its not based on statistic nor linguistics
13:18 < klafka> er that i've seen
13:19 < delinquentme> whats in the background ?
13:19 < augur> delinquentme: not _entirely_ statistics
13:19 < augur> it makes heavy use of statistics
13:19 < augur> but NLPers will often say its _just_ statistics
13:19 < klafka> so the other part isn't linguistics?
13:19 < augur> which is false
13:19 < augur> klafka: indeed. the other part is whatever state machines/formal grammars work best for the task at hand
13:20 < augur> or if its not a parsing-like task, whatever random idea they have
13:20 < klafka> i see
13:20 < augur> and fair enough, those extra bits often work and lead to interesting new ways of modelling the phenomenon in question
13:20 < augur> or at least of getting better results
13:20 < augur> but they dont take any hints from linguistics
13:21 < augur> and at this stage they probably dont _need_ to
13:21 < klafka> i see
13:21 < klafka> i guess i don't really know enough about linguistics to make intelligent comments about it
13:21 < augur> NLP is like pre-newtonian physics
13:22 < klafka> i'm starting to think that more and more, most fields are like biology
13:22 < klafka> and physics is hte exception
13:22 < augur> the step from aristotle to galileo vs the step from einstein to witten, or something
13:23 < klafka> that most fields are very heterogenous in nature and may not have a 'relatively' simple set of rules to model it
13:23 < klafka> like physics
13:23 < augur> NLP is hacking away at big chunks, low hanging fruit, easy targets
13:23 < klafka> i see
13:23 < augur> and so what theyre doing can indeed make "huge" strides
13:24 < augur> or if you want to compare it to art
13:25 < augur> think of the different between the initial whacks at a piece of marble that cut away big chunks of unnecessary marble
13:25 < augur> vs the latter stages of the sculpture, where you have to be precise, nuanced, and you have to know the shape you're trying to make intimately well
13:26 < augur> beginning sculptors can get you a vague outline of a human
13:26 < augur> but only michelangelo can get you david
13:31 < augur> the statistical methods that NLPers use are the same as in cancer detection systems, for instance
13:31 < augur> not sort of, but literally.
13:31 < klafka> right
13:32 < augur> ive taken NLP courses. unabashedly NLP courses. and half the time, the explanations for the algos used these other tasks as examples
13:32 < augur> which is fine, but it means that what NLP is currently doing is carving out the regularity that isn't really particular to language
13:33 < klafka> eh, it could be that the techniques generalize well
13:33 < klafka> i mean regresion analysis is used for finance and biology
13:33 < klafka> does that mean they are both immature ?
13:33 < augur> yes
13:34 < augur> it means that our understanding of finance and biology is very young
13:34 < augur> finance and biology are clearly different systems obeying different laws in one way or another
13:35 < klafka> eh, in kind but not overall, they (though they may not be ) abstractly be the same
13:35 < klafka> i mean the advantage of modelling is to simplify the reality so that you can do something useful with it
13:35 < augur> it depends on what you mean by abstractly
13:35 < augur> at some level, EVERYTHING is abstractly the same
13:35 < augur> its a matter of approximation
13:36 < klafka> right
13:36 < augur> if you approximate, you can unify a lot of things
13:36 < augur> but approximations are approximations
13:36 < klafka> you seem to believe that the level of utility necessarily goes up as the level of detail does
13:36 < augur> if you want better approximations, you have to specialize
13:36 < augur> oh no this isnt about level of utility
13:36 < klafka> it's just about the accuracy of the model?
13:37 < augur> NLP as it is is incredibly successful at what its intended for
13:37 < augur> but what it's intended for is not understanding how language works
13:37 < klafka> oh
13:37 < klafka> yeah totally
13:37 < klafka> agreed
13:37 < klafka> it's for doing useful things
13:38 < augur> for some definition of useful :)
13:38 < klafka> not that that isn't necessarily useful
13:38 < klafka> but NLP seems muc more utilitarian
13:38 < klafka> particularly w/ the web
13:38 < augur> its very utilitarian in some sense
13:39 < augur> i mean, yeah, a web example is good
13:39 < augur> you have to have the ability to handle noisy, poorly written text from all sorts of people
13:39 < augur> non-native speakers, children, regional variation, etc.
13:40 < klafka> idiots
13:40 < augur> not that this is what most NLPers are aiming for
13:40 < augur> i mean, the big bucks come from crap like sentiment analysis
13:40 < augur> and most sentiment analysis is crap
13:40 < augur> but it sells
13:41 < klafka> interesting
13:42 < augur> sentiment analysis, btw, is stuff like looking at movie reviews and judging whether its a positive or negative review
13:42 < augur> or that sort of thing
13:42 < augur> is this blog post pro- or anti-israel
13:42 < augur> etc
13:43 < augur> these are common themes in the sentiment analysis literature
13:43 < klafka> *nod
13:43 < klafka> i see
13:43 < klafka> why do you think it sucks?
13:43 < klafka> i mean you can view it as just a supervised learning problem
13:43 < klafka> if you have a lot of data
13:43 < klafka> or perhaps an unsupervised learning problem
13:45 < augur> why do i think what sucks
13:45 < klafka> sentiment analysis
13:46 < augur> im not saying sentiment analysis sucks
13:46 < augur> where did you get that impression
13:46 < augur> well ok
13:46 < augur> most sentiment analysis TECHNIQUES are crap
13:46 < augur> yes
13:47 < augur> but thats just because people aren't actually applying real learning techniques to the task
13:47 < augur> most sentiment analysis is just shit like token counting or keyword finding
13:48 < augur> the real sentiment analysis people dont suck, they do proper work
13:48 < augur> theres just a lot of bs
13:50 < klafka> aah i see
13:50 < klafka> gotchya
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14:21 < delinquentme> kanzure, http://www.lifetechnologies.com/content/lifetech/en/home/about-life-technologies/grand-challenges.html?ICID=LTHP-LGC-0611
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14:42 < kanzure> various "plan b"s for patents http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2855397
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15:18 < kanzure> http://www.wired.com/culture/culturereviews/magazine/17-07/st_singularity
15:18 < fenn> http://www.cremationsolutions.com/Personal-Cremation-Urns-for-ashes-c109.html
15:19 < kanzure> glad to see tv/vcr repair a part of the singularityu curriculum
15:24 < kanzure> fenn: someone should give one of osama to obama
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16:33 < kanzure> desai shukla?
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17:05 < delinquentme> http://www.lifetechnologies.com/about-life-technologies/grand-challenges/speed.html
17:05 < delinquentme> so this is asking to halve the prep time on a sequence machine
17:05 < delinquentme> is that difficult?
17:06 < kanzure> depends on the machine
17:06 < kanzure> it might be a design flaw
17:08 < delinquentme> PostresQL!
17:08 < delinquentme> http://www.lifetechnologies.com/about-life-technologies/grand-challenges/accuracy.html
17:09 < delinquentme> and this particular one is straightforward programming
17:14 < delinquentme> kanzure, lol what is our institution name?
17:15 < delinquentme> the 4 internets-men?
17:17 < QuantumG> is lolcad dead yet?
17:20 < klafka> why isn't there a grand challenge to make viable cheap dna writing technology
17:25 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_virtual_communities_with_more_than_100_million_users
17:25 < kanzure> QuantumG: not quite :)
17:25 < kanzure> "As of july 11, 2011, the active QQ users accounts for QQ IM totaled 812.3 million"
17:26 < kanzure> "The number of simultaneous online QQ accounts exceeded 100 million"
17:28 < QuantumG> what's a QQ?
17:28 < klafka> probably something chinese
17:29 < QuantumG> ahh, right
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17:33 < kanzure> hi ferrouswheel
17:33 < kanzure> QuantumG: most popular im program in the world
17:39 < delinquentme> QuantumG, kanzure >> http://xkcd.com/256/
17:39 < delinquentme> wait thats not the right one!
17:41 < delinquentme> http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/online_communities_2_large.png
17:41 < delinquentme> there we go
17:42 < kanzure> not really accurate
17:42 < kanzure> and that's very old
17:44 < delinquentme> wonk brb
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17:49 < kanzure> my qq id is 2302976763
17:50 < QuantumG> it's an icq knockoff right?
17:50 < QuantumG> I vaguely remember this
17:51 < kanzure> everything is an icq knockoff
17:51 < kanzure> apparently you have to have an icq id to be big in porn or advertising
17:51 < kanzure> the lower the better..
17:51 < kanzure> those are the only two industries that still care about icq
17:56 < klafka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4zw99VsoMA
17:56 < QuantumG> or hacking
17:56 < QuantumG> or credit card fraud
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17:57 < klafka> kanzure i read that on reddit as well
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18:13 < kanzure> QuantumG: nah, credit card fraud has migrated back to irc again
18:13 < kanzure> it's a ciruclar thing
18:14 < QuantumG> well, the brief experiment with carding forums and tutorial archives, etc, did net a large number of convictions.
18:15 < kanzure> hrm
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19:33 < kanzure> heh fossasia is being hosted in ho chi minh city this year
20:54 < ferrouswheel> g'day kanzure
20:54 < kanzure> hi
20:55 < ferrouswheel> my icq was 9311884.... but then it got hacked and the icq website was hopeless to try to fix the issue.
20:56 < ferrouswheel> but at that stage the only contacts I really had on there we're teenage girls I'd never met (I was also a teenager!)
20:56 < kanzure> i have 556283484 and possibly one in the 7000000 range
20:56 < ferrouswheel> Which probably meant half of them were men in their 40s.
20:56 < kanzure> dunno man.. half of the teenaged girls on AIM turned out to be teenaged girls on AIM
20:57 < kanzure> now they are young 20-somethings on AIM :)
20:58 < ferrouswheel> haha
21:06 < kanzure> nice: http://computationaltales.blogspot.com/p/posts-by-topic.html
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21:58 < kanzure> deliquentme: aubrey replied
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--- Log closed Mon Aug 08 00:00:15 2011