--- Log opened Wed Aug 17 00:00:27 2011
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04:22 < fenn> hm. google plus. le sigh
04:22 < fenn> at least this way i don't have to break my oath about facebook
04:24 < fenn> "< strages_> why not just administer an IQ test upon anyone joining the channel?" what an excellent idea
04:39 < fenn> http://www.ftrain.com/woods-plus.html The only thing they could want me for is harvesting.
04:39 < fenn> " this lets you divide people into clusters and lie to each group in different ways, which makes it easier to preserve the fictions that make up our polite racist society"
05:19 < kanzure> consistent multi-circle lying is really hard to scale
05:22 < superkuh> It's just as bad. You'd be breaking it in spirit.
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05:52 < kanzure> why do i keep thinking sf is 2 hours ahead
05:52 < kanzure> i am five hours early for a call
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06:43 < kanzure> this doesn't focus enough on DOM
06:43 < kanzure> http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/internals/howbrowserswork/
06:43 < kanzure> but otherwise an ok intro
06:45 < kanzure> http://cheapassscience.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/the-diy-microscope-incubator-is-complete/
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07:00 < kanzure> hmm files http://diylilcnc.org/downloads/
07:01 < kanzure> mabel robot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlOwk6_xpWo
07:05 < kanzure> wall climber robot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEMlkonimvQ
07:06 < kanzure> the wall climbers need a giant lance on their back so they can hook onto the top edge of a roof and pull themselves over
07:06 < kanzure> i see that one of those is articulated through the mid-section but i can't imagine that helping much
07:08 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone.
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07:32 < kanzure> todo: medical tourism rating site
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07:37 < kanzure> i guess there's this http://reviews.treatmentabroad.com/
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07:57 < kanzure> hah "pain is just weakness leaving your body"
07:57 < JayDugger> That ignores the possibilities of injuries that cripple or maim.
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08:11 < kanzure> http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2011/08/if-the-software-method-is-not-patentable-then-neither-is-the-computer-readable-medium.html
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08:40 < eridu> kanzure: just saw the quantified self blog post on meetlog -- I can't view videos now, but that looks incredible! do you have a link?
08:40 < eridu> (it is sadly not terrifically googleable)
08:55 < kanzure> eridu: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/meetlog/plain/meetlog.txt
08:58 < eridu> kanzure: how do you keep track of how much you talk?
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09:26 < kanzure> eridu: there's actually a lot of flaws
09:27 < kanzure> like why the hell aren't i tracking per-conversation information?
09:27 < kanzure> or per-message?
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09:27 < kanzure> it makes no sense to lump every interaction i have with someone in a single day into the same 'block' or record
09:27 < kanzure> oh great
09:27 < kanzure> fine, leave me
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16:19 < kanzure> "The US Navy, for example, was in need of a real-time kernel with deterministic performance characteristics in order to develop anti-missile technologies for their fleet. Linux didn’t have such a kernel, so the Navy contributed it."
16:19 < kanzure> hmm what
16:20 < archels> what indeed
16:21 < archels> RTOS extensions?
16:21 < kanzure> didn't NIST develop real-time kernel contributions?
16:25 < archels> I don't know
16:25 < QuantumG> I imagine you could find the commits
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16:37 < kanzure> what? do work?
16:48 < QuantumG> yeah, seemed pretty unlikely
16:49 < kanzure> http://quantifiedself.com/2011/08/bryan-bishop-on-meetlog/
16:49 < kanzure> ohhh shit
16:50 < kanzure> "He discovered that he talks 60% of the time"
16:50 < kanzure> well..
16:51 < kanzure> hah posting it on facebook: fenn's image shows up
16:51 < kanzure> close enough i guess
16:53 < archels> Did they just stick their intro on your talk video?
16:53 < kanzure> prolly
16:54 < kanzure> hah i didn't even notice that
16:54 < kanzure> i skipped to the middle and ends
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17:25 < eudoxia> Is there such a thing as a .pdf of Nanosystems? Because if there is I can't find it
17:27 < kanzure> .pdb?
17:27 < kanzure> if by .pdf you mean something completely unusable, no- chemists have managed to keep their file formats fairly ok
17:27 < eudoxia> hehe
17:27 < kanzure> there's also a few formats that nanoengineer uses
17:27 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer
17:27 < kanzure> http://nanoengineer-1.com/
17:28 < kanzure> http://nanoengineer-1.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
17:28 < eudoxia> I mean a copy of the book
17:28 < QuantumG> I think Engines Of Creation is up
17:28 < kanzure> oh another type is mmp
17:28 < kanzure> oh
17:28 < kanzure> fuck
17:28 < QuantumG> .. but I don't remember seeing Nanosystems
17:28 < QuantumG> check torrents I guess
17:28 < eudoxia> Engines of Creation is up, yes, I have it. Nanosystems is nowhere to be found.
17:29 < eudoxia> kanzure I thought you were joking. You read Nanosystems as NanoEngineer or what?
17:29 < QuantumG> hmm.. http://e-drexler.com/d/06/00/Nanosystems/toc.html
17:29 < kanzure> http://gnusha.org/stuff_to_deal_with/nanosystems.tar.gz
17:30 < kanzure> i thought you meant nanosystems.. not Nanosystems-the-Book
17:30 < kanzure> anyway.. there you go, enjoy
17:30 < eudoxia> I thought there was only one Nanosystems
17:30 < eudoxia> oh well
17:30 < QuantumG> almost looks like they half did it and then stopped
17:30 < kanzure> i thought you meant "nanosystems" like.. a noun for the thing.. the concept :)
17:30 < kanzure> anyway the .tar.gz should wrok
17:30 < kanzure> work
17:30 < eudoxia> Thank you
17:31 < eudoxia> The TOC has a few sample chapters, the rest is only in the hardcopy version
17:33 < QuantumG> I went to my local reference desk, where I originally read Nanosystems, and asked for the copy.. they physically sighed because they had to go down into the archive to retrieve it.
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17:36 < eudoxia> I'm rather late to the party because nowadays all I hear is how diamond nanotech is infeasible and everything based on a UHV and mechanosynthesis is DOOMED TO FAIL
17:36 < QuantumG> uh huh, where do you hear that?
17:38 < eudoxia> Well, there's that Philip Moriarty guy, for one thing. He's working on mechanosynthesis but doubts it can be scaled up. And that Scott Locklin guy but I heard he was a flamebaiting troll.
17:39 < eudoxia> And some Internet random who told me only wet, squishy proteins work, and to prove it took a picture of his Nanochemistry textbook with a timestap that read "Eric Drexler is a crazy mofo"
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17:40 < QuantumG> sounds like strong argument :)
17:41 < eudoxia> So I guessed I'd read nanosystems and make an informed opinion
17:42 < QuantumG> yeah, go to the library.  Assuming they haven't burned it down yet.
17:43 < eudoxia> I doubt they will have a copy of Nanosystems
17:43 < QuantumG> ask.. libraries will even get it in from another branch if you ask.
17:44 < QuantumG> or.. amazon has 49 used from $5
17:45 < QuantumG> http://www.amazon.com/Nanosystems-Molecular-Machinery-Manufacturing-Computation/dp/0471575186/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1313628276&sr=8-1
17:47 < eudoxia> I considered it but the Internet is always cheaper
17:47 < eudoxia> :>
17:48 < eudoxia> One question, though, since you've read it: Is is specifically for physics/chemistry undergrads or something along those lines, or is it more general? Obviously it's not pop-sci like Engines of Creation but I want to know how much preliminary knowledge I need to read it
17:50 < QuantumG> I read it when I was 18 and understood it.
17:50 < eudoxia> Okay then
17:50 < QuantumG> knowing a little about computational chemistry helps though.
17:51 < eudoxia> Well I know about normal chemistry. The only thing I know about computational chemistry is how to press the Run Dynamics button in NanoEngineer
17:51 < eudoxia> look mommy i am siens
17:52 < QuantumG> you probably know enough to read it and understand it.
17:53 < QuantumG> just noticed I already had another book in my amazon shopping cart which I hadn't bought yet.. so I just added a copy of nanosystems :)
17:53 < kanzure> eudoxia: ok but really the link i gave you is the full thing
17:54 < kanzure> moriarty has always been against diamondoid mechanosynthesis
17:54 < kanzure> see http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/nanotech/freitas_process/notes.txt
17:54 < kanzure> and http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/nanotech/
17:54 < QuantumG> oh kanzure, didn't see your link.  doh
17:55 < QuantumG> I guess eudoxia missed it too.. http://gnusha.org/stuff_to_deal_with/nanosystems.tar.gz
17:55  * kanzure pouts
17:56 < QuantumG> be nice to have the dead tree though... I can smack small thinkers over the head with it.
17:59 < QuantumG> the other book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316491977
17:59 < meefs> large file QuantumG
18:00 < QuantumG> meefs: as kanzure said, it's the whole book
18:00 < meefs> no compression?
18:01 < QuantumG> gz = compression.
18:01 < eudoxia> kanz, quantum, yes I'm downloading it
18:01 < eudoxia> And I'll love you guys forever
18:01 < QuantumG> it aint bz2 but it's almost as good
18:02 < kanzure> it's just photos
18:02 < kanzure> or scans of the pages
18:03 < eudoxia> Maybe they can be OCR'd
18:03 < QuantumG> you do that :)
18:03 < meefs> well this is the only 700meg+ 'book' I've downloaded
18:04 < eudoxia> I tried OCR'ing a book I have but Christ the text output is all messed up. And each scan was like two thousand pixes wide
18:05 < meefs> even huge text using scanned pages never reach above 100MB
18:05 < meefs> oh well it must be worth it :)
18:06 < kanzure> most people manually correct anything ocr'd
18:07 < QuantumG> hmm 576 pages.. seemed longer in my memories
18:08 < klafka> kanzure that seems like a huge amt of time
18:08 < kanzure> klafka: remember the people who used to type up books when they were learning to type?
18:08 < kanzure> that is, until they ran out of fun books that nobody had typed up yet..
18:08 < klafka> haha true
18:09 < kanzure> klafka: i might have a job for you
18:09 < kanzure> but it would require relocation to san francisco
18:10 < kanzure> is it ok if i pass on your resume or would you prefer to cold call them? they would love that
18:10 < klafka> go forf it kanzure
18:11 < klafka> i want to move to sf
18:11 < klafka> what kind of job is?
18:11 < kanzure> random web startup got some funding and needs additional programmers
18:11 < klafka> ah
18:11 < klafka> yeah sure
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18:16 < QuantumG> the concept of sliding seals to expand the work area of a nanofactory is what comes into my head when I think about mechanosynthesis
18:17 < eudoxia> I'm worried about how extensible the process is, to other elements and other molecules.
18:18 < QuantumG> the focus on hydrogen/carbon is a little blinding.
18:19 < eudoxia> I mean, I can imagine 'regular' atom stacking to produce diamond, and easily make something like the Universal Joint ( http://nanoengineer-1.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Universal_Joint ) because that's simple enough. It's just a slab of diamond. But something like the differential gear ( http://nanoengineer-1.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Differential_Gear ) is just... I doubt one can just make a litle wheel of Carb
18:19 < eudoxia> on and decorate it with Sulphur.
18:20 < eudoxia> And then there's the fact it uses more elements than merely Carbon and Hydrogen. And that you have to build the thing as you build the case, which requires the tips to move from any arbitrary direction, and have sub-angstrom precision all the time.
18:20 < QuantumG> is that because the concept of hydrogen abstraction has been explored and you've read about that, but you haven't read anything similar for sulphur?
18:21 < eudoxia> Hydrogen abstraction and donation, and Carbon deposition, those I know have been studied and simulated, but I don't know about sulphur mechanosynthesis, or even how well it extends to other covalently-bonded crystals like, say, silica or boron nitride
18:22 < QuantumG> well, the availability of accurate positional placement is the fundamental assumption.. so you have to just accept that as an axiom  (which is what makes mechanosynthesis so hilarious, cause we don't have it)
18:22 < QuantumG> so yeah, it really is just about tooltips
18:23 < eudoxia> But the underlying chemistry is feasible?
18:23 < QuantumG> in nanosystems he describes all the tooltips he uses and shows they can simulated, etc.
18:24 < eudoxia> So the problem is not fat fingers or sticky fingers... But steady fingers
18:24 < QuantumG> all the work that has been done since has basically been trying to make simpler tools.. or tools that *we can actually make* with existing technology.
18:24 < eudoxia> Like the mechanosynthesis experiments with AFM?
18:27 < QuantumG> depends which ones you're talking about.. but yeah.
18:29 < eudoxia> I remember a 2003 experiment where they removed a Silicon atom and put it down somewhere else, and a 2008 experiment where they wrote "Si" on a diamond surface. But again I don't know how that translates to diamond, or if an AFM tip counts as a reactant molecule
18:29 < QuantumG> but the simple fact is, although mechanosynthesis has been shown possible, and even practical, it hasn't been implemented and so far I have seen a roadmap that has sufficient detail to convince me that it ever will be.  And that's kinda sad.
18:30 < QuantumG> and more people have to get into it as a research field if it is ever going to happen.
18:31 < eudoxia> I hope it doesn't end up like fusion, with people saying that it "will always be fifty years away"
18:31 < QuantumG> if it continues at the current progression, linear extrapolation puts it far beyond our likely lifetimes.. even kanzure's :)
18:31 < kanzure> i only have another five years anyway
18:33 < QuantumG> well, my opinion of fusion is that it got politicized in the 80s and the healthy rivalry that was driving the research community got replaced with plodding bureaucratic "cooperation".
18:34 < QuantumG> so really, the catch phrase should be "ITER is always fifty years away"
18:34 < kanzure> consortia! consortiums! conferences! proceedings! royal societies!
18:34 < kanzure> how else are things supposed to happen?? (i am joking)
18:34 < QuantumG> ya
18:35 < QuantumG> but also, people assume nuclear fusion power plants will be just like nuclear fission power plants... complete with all that government oversight, etc, etc
18:36 < QuantumG> that's just the defacto position.
18:37 < QuantumG> why do fission power plants have such government involvement?  Do coal plants?  Or oil plants?  Or natural gas plants?  Not nearly.. because the threat to public safety is so completely different.
18:38 < QuantumG> well, what's the threat to public safety of fusion like?  Is it like fission?  Not even.
18:39 < QuantumG> So what does that mean?  Well, it means that GE isn't going to fund fusion research like they would other power technologies, because the threat of massive government control of any plant that they ever actually build means they're not going to be able to capitalize on that investment.
18:42 < QuantumG> And, from the other side, it means that government funding for anything which is any safer than the Tokamak concept is marginalized because it threatens the necessity of oversight.
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18:47 < eudoxia> yes, yes, eight minutes left in the download, yes...
18:47 < eudoxia> On topic now I heard nice things about the tandem mirror
18:48 < eudoxia> And then how in the eighties someone decided we should all stick with the Tokamak and every other project was shafted
18:51 < QuantumG> watching http://www.livestream.com/tedxnasasiliconvalley
18:54 < kanzure> kanzure: who are you
18:54 < kanzure> oh
18:54 < kanzure> weird, i'm on freenode twice
18:55 < QuantumG> not here
18:55 < jrayhawk> kanzure only has five years because eventually one of his dissociated identities will attempt to kill another
18:56 < QuantumG> clearly
18:57 < kanzure> neuroblastoma had a sex change to victoria?
18:58 < jrayhawk> it's amazing what can be done with silicon implants these days
18:58 < QuantumG> well, saline
18:59 < kanzure> what's up with people mixing up silicon and silicone anyway
19:00 < Tyrant> holywood and the bay area are quite close to each other
19:00 < Tyrant> it's an understandable mistake
19:01 < QuantumG> I want silicon implants.. in my brain.
19:01 < jrayhawk> those tend to get rather warm...
19:01 < kanzure> no way dude they will start to sag in 6 years
19:01 < kanzure> s/sag/lag/
19:01 < QuantumG> heh
19:02 < QuantumG> whereas I often have silicone implants *on* my brain
19:03 < QuantumG> just a 4 function calculator implant would do.
19:04 < kanzure> so i'm doing the training of my vietnamese programmers
19:04 < kanzure> basically i have a ticketing system on unfuddle.com
19:04 < kanzure> and i add tickets for whatever they should install or read
19:04 < kanzure> (when they're not working on projects)
19:04 < jrayhawk> any particular reason you chose unfuddle over github?
19:05 < kanzure> no
19:05 < kanzure> i wanted redmine but then i realized i only had an hour to write 200 tickets
19:05 < kanzure> so i wrote a script to auto-post yaml files into tickets on unfuddle
19:05 < kanzure> anyway
19:06 < kanzure> i've gone through basic javascript, html5, iphone, android, css3, and dev tools
19:06 < jrayhawk> I have private repository stuff working in Piny, now, by the way.
19:06 < kanzure> if they are going to be bored i'd like them to be reading/trying useful demos
19:06 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i might have to switch all of this over to piny
19:06 < kanzure> there's about 40 repos
19:07 < kanzure> and right now these assholes are committing builds to git repositories
19:07 < jrayhawk> bahaha
19:07 < kanzure> and i need to setup a build server
19:07 < jrayhawk> you should make them aware of git-annex
19:07 < kanzure> because everyone running android/xcode to build apps all the time is inefficient
19:07 < jrayhawk> git annex is pretty cool for builds
19:07 < kanzure> oh.. yes i should
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19:09 < kanzure> i also gave them a huge list of documentation and tutorials to read
19:09 < kanzure> oh.. yes i shouldys
19:09 < kanzure> oops
19:09 < kanzure> backbfufer
19:09 < kanzure> backbuffer
19:10 < jrayhawk> i blame the dissociative personalities
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19:10 < kanzure> a mi missing any particular topic i should make them read/demo/test/play with?
19:11 < jrayhawk> I don't even know what you're developing.
19:11 < kanzure> i am having them do mobile and web apps mostly
19:11 < kanzure> also games, probably using unity3d
19:11 < kanzure> various opengl es 2 stuff
19:14 < kanzure> cat */*.yaml | grep subject: | sort | uniq | ssh bryan@gnusha.org "cat > ~/public_html/irc/training.txt"
19:14 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/training.txt
19:15 < kanzure> oh maybe i will have them play with parse.com
19:15 < kanzure> blah beta invite only? screw that
19:24 < QuantumG> hmm.. Venter is presenting some results I wasn't up to date on
19:24 < QuantumG> at http://www.livestream.com/tedxnasasiliconvalley
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20:00 < kanzure> klafka: sent you over the details
20:01 < klafka> oh cool
20:02 < klafka> so did you send them my resume then/
20:03 < klafka> aah kanzure this is really interesting
20:03 < mayko> http://topologicoceans.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/you-cant-predict-the-weather/
20:03 < mayko> yay!
20:03 < klafka> it's an idea I was sort of thinking along very similar lines about
20:04 < kanzure> klafka: no
20:04 < klafka> ah ok
20:04 < kanzure> i figured you could suprise them or something
20:04 < kanzure> surprise
20:04 < klafka> LOL
20:07 < klafka> i think I'll email them first
20:08 < klafka> i really don't like cold calling people
20:09 < kanzure> no it's going to be super casual
20:09 < kanzure> "yo dude i'm some guy i can write some code wazzup"
20:09 < klafka> lol
20:13 < kanzure> you can prep by cold calling me
20:13 < kanzure> not really a cold call though
20:14 < klafka> hah
20:23 < kanzure> klafka: in other news,
20:23 < kanzure> http://quantifiedself.com/2011/08/bryan-bishop-on-meetlog/
20:23 < kanzure> is up..
20:25 < klafka> ooh cool
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21:07 < kanzure> good night
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--- Log closed Thu Aug 18 00:00:29 2011