--- Log opened Sat Sep 17 00:00:14 2011 00:00 < CryptoQuick> gotta split~ 00:01 -!- CryptoQuick [~CryptoQui@c-174-51-232-237.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Join New Direction in Space on Facebook! http://is.gd/ndispace] 00:01 < kanzure> xelxebar1: i hope not 00:06 < xelxebar1> kanzure: and why would that be? 00:30 < genehacker> hey kanzure, you seen the quake lab DNA synthesizer? 00:30 < genehacker> http://thebigone.stanford.edu/papers/Lee%20Nucleic%20Acids%20Research.pdf 00:34 < genehacker> it's completely made from PDMS 00:38 < genehacker> and all features can be made with shrinky dink microfluidics 00:48 < augur> so whats everyones opinion on the new deus ex, ey? 00:48 < augur> it uses the h+ lexicon fairly freely 00:51 < kanzure> genehacker: yeah i've seen it 00:52 < kanzure> augur: the ads are a little demeaning 00:52 < kanzure> xelxebar1: lesswrong causes me lots of trouble 00:52 < augur> kanzure: probably; i havent seen any tho 00:52 < augur> have you played it? 00:52 < kanzure> nope not yet 00:52 < augur> its an ok game 00:54 < genehacker> you wouldn't happen to know if anyone in DIY has actually built working shrinky dink microfluidics would you? 00:54 < kanzure> nobody has reported it.. 00:55 < kanzure> genehacker: you seen this? 00:55 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akaos1U8Rto 00:55 < kanzure> augur: ^that's for you 00:55 < genehacker> no 00:56 < genehacker> I'm playing old deus ex though 00:59 < augur> kanzure: thats an accurate depiction of the points of view of one of the main antagonists in this game 00:59 < augur> perhaps *the* main antagonist. im not really sure, i havent completed the game yet. 01:00 < genehacker> SPOILER ALERT 01:00 < kanzure> does anyone have a pokemon black rom 01:00 < kanzure> inquiring minds need to know 01:00 < augur> i tried playing old deus ex. the game wont run fast enough for me :( 01:00 < genehacker> that's odd 01:01 < augur> but anyway, i think the new deus ex appropriately focuses on certain issues that transhumanists should take more seriously 01:01 < kanzure> xelxebar1: sorry but jrayhawk is my director of antilesswrong affairs, you'll have to bring up further questions with him 01:01 < kanzure> augur: no.. we need to stop focusing on that bullshit and just make shit 01:02 < kanzure> trust me, enough people are busy playing ethics for all of us 01:02 < kanzure> don't need any more of 'em 01:02 < augur> i dont mean ethics crap 01:02 < genehacker> and I was thinking of trolling that bioethics club for fun... 01:02 < augur> thats the big thing you see in that commercial 01:03 < augur> but what i mean is that the game plays up /different/ social aspects 01:03 < augur> anti-h+ backlash due to differences in access stemming from economic class, etc. 01:03 < kanzure> tell me why you should care about backlash 01:04 < augur> ... 01:05 < kanzure> no really 01:05 < kanzure> if people hate you are you going to stop ?? 01:05 < kanzure> is that it? 01:05 < QuantumG> stop what? I'll hate you if you like. 01:05 < kanzure> thanks QuantumG always having my back :) 01:06 < xelxebar1> kanzure: antilesswrong affairs, such a splendid use of resources 01:07 < kanzure> xelxebar1: well, he's much more eloquent at this 01:07 < kanzure> honestly i'd just be wasting your time with a giant rant 01:07 < QuantumG> we're used to it 01:07 < kanzure> and then you'd end up with some rationalist singularity argument about decision theory and tools for existential risks 01:08 < kanzure> also we'd have an ai-is-gonna-kill-us-all argument or two, some fai theory, then we'd trot out our eliezer arguments.. 01:08 < kanzure> does this sound about right :x 01:08 < xelxebar1> hey, that's a pretty decent compression ratio you got there 01:08 < kanzure> thx 01:09 < xelxebar1> the cult following of eliezer is a bit annoying 01:09 < kanzure> it's everywhere and i've been trying to figure out if i should assasinate him 01:09 < kanzure> someone once compared me to him and i felt sick.. not cool 01:10 < QuantumG> if he has a cult following you don't need to assassinate him.. just spread rumors that he's stockpiling weapons and the ATF will do it for ya. 01:10 < genehacker> is it really that easy? 01:11 < QuantumG> have you seen Red State? 01:11 < xelxebar1> well, I'm not sure he's so much the issue, more the oooh-look-shiny-new-idea-of-awesome-this-must-be-the-ultimate-answer-of-ultimate syndrome 01:11 < genehacker> nah 01:11 -!- splicer_ is now known as splicer 01:12 < QuantumG> on an unrelated note, I heard Singularity U is stockpiling weapons. 01:12 < kanzure> xelxebar1: http://gnusha.org/logs/2011-07-10.log 01:14 < kanzure> 15:29 < kanzure> gcpopell: "so, in a way, they're trying to combat AI singularity with human rationalist singularity, and that just seems dumb to me considering that rationalism isn't really all that empowering." 01:14 < genehacker> strangely that wouldn't surprise me... 01:15 < genehacker> anyone know what sort of PDMS the microfluidics people use? 01:15 < kanzure> nope.. but i'm pretty sure it's an su8 process 01:15 < genehacker> is it some special stuff, or is it just RTV 615? 01:15 < kanzure> check the supplemental materials? 01:16 < kanzure> i might have the supplements here: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/ 01:16 < kanzure> or here http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/synthesis/ 01:16 < kanzure> pfpe i think 01:16 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/synthesis/microfluidics_Quake_DNA_synthesizer-20mers-PFPE.png 01:16 < genehacker> SU-8 ain't pdms 01:17 < kanzure> su8 is for the other part of the process 01:17 < genehacker> I'm wondering what PDMS they used 01:17 < kanzure> it's been a while.. 01:17 < genehacker> if it's something that's COTS 01:17 < genehacker> one paper says RTV 615 01:17 < kanzure> pfpe, ptfe or pdms 01:20 < genehacker> recent paper was PDMS 01:20 < genehacker> hmmmm... looks like it's RTV 615... 01:21 -!- klafka [~textual@cpe-69-205-70-55.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:22 < kanzure> which paper? 01:22 < genehacker> quake's first valve paper 01:23 < kanzure> that was recent? 01:23 < kanzure> hmm we should go assasinate "Individualidades Tendiendo a lo Salvaje" 01:24 < kanzure> "In statements posted on the Internet, the ITS expresses particular hostility towards nano­technology and computer scientists. It claims that nanotechnology will lead to the downfall of mankind, and predicts that the world will become dominated by self-aware artificial-intelligence technology." 01:24 < kanzure> (hey look! it's like siai but with balls!) 01:24 < genehacker> the group that bombed that mems lab? 01:25 < kanzure> plus other bombs 01:26 < genehacker> this is the paper where they say they used RTV 615 01:26 < genehacker> http://thebigone.stanford.edu/papers/Unger%20Science.pdf 01:26 < genehacker> it's from 2000 01:26 < genehacker> wait they bombed other places? 01:26 < kanzure> mailed some bombs around to some professors 01:26 < genehacker> how many? 01:27 < kanzure> http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110822/full/476373a.html 01:28 < genehacker> so that explains why we have a 24 hr watch on my campus... 01:28 < kanzure> where are you? 01:29 < genehacker> I am where I am 01:29 < kanzure> i'm really struggling between pokemon black vs. sleep 01:29 < genehacker> and where I am does nanotech research 01:30 < kanzure> ut dallas 01:30 < kanzure> hmm that doesn't fit your history actually 01:30 < kanzure> are you still overseas? 01:30 < genehacker> yes I am 01:30 < kanzure> oxford right? 01:30 < genehacker> nope 01:30 < kanzure> you should visit the future humanity institute and bonk anders sandberg over the head 01:31 < kanzure> maybe he will have his senses knocked back into alignment 01:31 < kanzure> oh. 01:33 < genehacker> anyway in my opinion self-improving AI probably won't be a problem 01:33 < klafka> hey 01:34 < klafka> what does that mean? 01:34 < klafka> self improving AI won't be a problem? 01:34 < QuantumG> just "improving AI" is unlikely enough. 01:35 < klafka> yeah 'improving AI' is tough 01:35 < genehacker> an incredibly fast AI capable of improving itself might also be capable of inventing 'drugs' for itself 01:35 < kanzure> err.. 01:35 < klafka> IMO you'd basically need to learn reinforcement matrices via evolutionary process 01:35 < klafka> or at least that's one way i can think of 01:35 < klafka> that's the most obvious way 01:35 < kanzure> i think gloabl world domination is a possibility 01:35 < kanzure> not hard to imagine it 01:35 < genehacker> genetic algorithms are really good at finding shortcuts 01:36 < klafka> eh 01:36 < klafka> no they're not 01:36 < genehacker> IE solutions to the problem which don't actually work 01:36 < klafka> oh so you mean local optima 01:36 < QuantumG> yeah, and a competent and profitable space industry could conquer the solar system in a generation. Call me when you get to step 1. 01:36 < klafka> then yes i agree 01:36 < kanzure> genehacker: http://www.no-free-lunch.org/ 01:36 < klafka> or rather getting stuck in some sort of local optima 01:37 < klafka> um i'm not sure how that's relevant 01:37 < klafka> although very useful to know 01:38 < kanzure> maybe this wasn't the page i was thinking of 01:38 < kanzure> oh well 01:38 < klafka> hmm is anyone familiar w/ DB optimization? would having a very large but sparse table be bad for doing search queries on? 01:39 < klafka> if so, is there a standard rdb method for handling essentially queries on large sparse matrices 01:39 < kanzure> anyway, the threat of ai is sort of a non-issue because if some "intelligent" (or other) system by definition acquires capacity to destroy the world (or do other 'very bad things') you're fucked anyway.. 01:39 < genehacker> sparse= flat? 01:40 * kanzure attempts to sleep. the pokeymans can wait. 01:40 < klafka> i'm not sure what flat means 01:40 < klafka> in this context 01:40 < klafka> i mean like i have lots of rows with lots of fields but in a row only a small number of fields are important or non-zero 01:40 < genehacker> that sounds like a flat table 01:41 < klafka> ok 01:41 < QuantumG> searching by anything but the key is slow. 01:41 < Utopiah> genehacker: might like the recent http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~chazelle/pubs/selfimprove.pdf http://www.idsia.ch/~steunebrink/Publications/AGI11_goedel_machine.pdf 01:41 < klafka> i was thinking of doing a nosql database 01:41 < klafka> like redis 01:41 < klafka> but redis is specifically memcached 01:42 < kanzure> genehacker doesn't know redis :x 01:42 < klafka> i'm not sure if that's too early optimization 01:42 < genehacker> if you have to change the structure of your table to add new fields then its flat I think 01:42 < genehacker> I don't know redis, I do know access though, but in general flat tables are a bad idea 01:43 < kanzure> genehacker: btw, access is really old school at this point 01:43 < klafka> well basically i have a large number of keys where each key is associated with a subset of IDs that is shared between all keys 01:43 < kanzure> there's a lot of really fucking cool shit out there 01:43 < klafka> and i want to do stuff like find the intersection of IDs between two keys 01:43 < kanzure> way beyond ms access db 01:43 < genehacker> yeah, but people still use it, and I had to learn how to use it for a job 01:43 < kanzure> wow.. 01:44 < kanzure> (me too) 01:44 < klafka> atm I do this by creating a dict of sets and operating off that 01:44 < klafka> but that's obviously not a persistent solution 01:44 < genehacker> yeah... 01:45 < genehacker> also this job had a bunch of machines that had to run windows 95 01:45 < genehacker> said machines could probably be seen from the internet 01:45 < klafka> ewwwww 01:46 < genehacker> oh wait it might have just been XP 01:46 < genehacker> do you know what said machines were? 01:46 < klafka> dude the company i support (a major bank) is all XP 01:46 < genehacker> said machines were 3d printers 01:46 < klafka> they only use XP pretty much 01:46 < klafka> LOL 01:47 < kanzure> genehacker: yeah, industrial equipment is usually ass-backwards like that 01:48 < kanzure> i saw some hitachi stm software a few months ago.. total garbage 01:48 < kanzure> wasn't even completely translated into english 01:48 < genehacker> the machines are on average 10 years old, so it was sort of expected 01:48 < kanzure> 10 years ago would be windows 2000 or xp 01:49 < kanzure> or windows 98 at worst 01:50 < genehacker> yeah it was XP 01:52 < genehacker> machines were pretty bad too 01:53 < genehacker> they wouldn't run properly without all the mods made to them 02:05 -!- klafka_ [~diane@cpe-69-205-70-55.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:39 -!- klafka [~textual@cpe-69-205-70-55.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:03 -!- diane [~diane@cpe-69-205-70-55.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:31 -!- klafka [~textual@cpe-69-205-70-55.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:40 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@pool-173-57-40-144.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:55 -!- Tyrant [~Tyrant@c-76-21-1-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:59 -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@dynamic-78-8-221-36.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:57 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-57-255.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:52 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-57-255.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:02 -!- klafka [~textual@cpe-69-205-70-55.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:02 -!- klafka [~textual@cpe-69-205-70-55.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:04 -!- klafka [~textual@cpe-69-205-70-55.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:05 -!- klafka [~textual@cpe-69-205-70-55.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:35 -!- klafka [~textual@cpe-69-205-70-55.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:16 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@ip-64-134-67-196.public.wayport.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:24 < delinquentme> HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII 11:50 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@ip-64-134-67-196.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.2/20110902133214]] 12:59 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:33 -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@dynamic-78-8-221-36.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:35 < augur> kanzure: http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/kil43/stand_up_against_the_antitechnology_terrorists/ 14:47 -!- klafka [~textual@cpe-69-205-70-55.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:49 -!- klafka [~textual@cpe-69-205-70-55.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49 -!- diane is now known as klafka 15:23 < kanzure> what? now the sleep drugs aren't working 15:25 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@c-76-125-242-200.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:26 < delinquentme> kanzure: whats the gantry name for the ToM which was remade as to lower the moving weight ... and keep the motors stationary? 15:31 < kanzure> thingomatic 15:31 < kanzure> dunno 15:44 < delinquentme> ultimake 15:44 < delinquentme> ultimaker** 16:44 < klafka_> btw you guys see http://www.vcasmo.com/video/drewconway/13268 16:54 < delinquentme> klafka i like panda!!!!!!!! 16:54 < klafka_> i've never used panda 16:55 < klafka_> although it seems pretty neat 17:06 -!- klafka [~diane@cpe-69-205-70-55.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:18 < delinquentme> oh 17:18 < delinquentme> i mean panda 17:18 < delinquentme> pandas* 17:19 < delinquentme> petting them is a hobby of mine. 17:19 < klafka_> oh 17:19 < klafka_> heh 17:46 < delinquentme> am i missing something? 17:46 < delinquentme> tungsten carbide rods are 1/5th the cost of stainless steel 17:46 < delinquentme> of the SAME rod. 17:52 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-6-17.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:54 < eudoxia> Does anyone know how the resolution of 3D printers has increased over time? 17:54 < eudoxia> I was wondering if it was roughly exponential, in which case someone's going to make the case that "in X years we'll have molecular manufacturing" 17:55 < eudoxia> And when that day comes my counter-trolling skills must be ready 18:07 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:34 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50 < kanzure> hmm so where's the online open hardware summit fallout? 19:54 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:15 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21 < delinquentme> ?? 20:39 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@c-76-125-242-200.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.2/20110902133214]] 21:12 -!- marainein [~marainein@114-198-120-239.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:39 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-6-17.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:56 < kanzure> what was that openscad wrapper in python that could be switched out with pythonocc? 23:56 < kanzure> cadmium? pyopenscad? openscadpy? --- Log closed Sun Sep 18 00:00:15 2011