--- Log opened Fri Dec 30 00:00:51 2011
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01:32 < jrayhawk> ubuntu might have that if you apt-get install alsa-oss and aoss bash
01:33 < jrayhawk> or modprobe snd_pcm_oss, but that's cheating
01:40 < Utopiah> http://mirror.fem-net.de/CCC/28C3/mp4-h264-HQ/
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01:57 < JayDugger> Thank you, Utopiah.
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02:51 < Utopiah> http://www.brainlinksystem.com
02:51 < Utopiah> JayDugger: np
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09:09 < Moktato> Good morning
09:54 < kanzure> hmm?
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10:24 < Moktato> Finally got the epoc working on the 5yo
10:24 < Moktato> she loved it, she can do the stuff on spirit mountain way better than I can, apparently
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11:21 < kanzure> netsplist :(
11:21 < kanzure> netsplits :(
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11:38 < kanzure> does anyone remember what company quantumg worked for?
11:38 < kanzure> it was some infosec outfit in australia
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11:53 < brownies> hey, can someone help me with a quick favor? trying to get an academic paper, proving rather difficult to find lying around online
11:54  * Mokbortolan_ doesn't have the academic-paper mojo. :(
11:54 < brownies> http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1993-40718-001
11:54 < brownies> it's a classic!
11:54 < brownies> supposedly. i'd know if i could actually read it.
11:55 < Mokbortolan_> but, I did find this: http://projects.ict.usc.edu/itw/gel/EricssonDeliberatePracticePR93.pdf
11:56 < brownies> um, wow. that... is impressive.
11:56 < brownies> i spent like 20 minutes googling and couldn't turn it up
11:56 < brownies> Mokbortolan_: thanks man
11:56 < kanzure> >_>
11:56 < brownies> how... seriously, what did you google to get this?!
11:56 < Mokbortolan_> search term: The role of deliberate practice in the acquisition of expert performance. pdf
11:56 < kanzure> scholar.google.com filetype:pdf
11:56 < brownies> mm i was doing filetype:pdf The role of etc.
11:56 < Mokbortolan_> 2nd link
11:57 < kanzure> oh i only get "The influence of experience and deliberate practice on the development of superior expert performance"
11:57 < kanzure> whatev
11:57 < brownies> yea, see, i was getting a bunch of papers *referencing* it
11:57 < brownies> anyway. i will do some more delibrate practice around googling things. -_-
11:57 < brownies> thanks again Mokbortolan_
11:57 < Mokbortolan_> The google and I have an excellent relationship
11:57 < Mokbortolan_> no problems :p
11:58 < Mokbortolan_> glad to help, looks like an interesting read, too
11:58 < brownies> yea, i've been on a whole behavioral econ + operant conditioning thing lately
11:58 < brownies> s/thing/reading marathon
11:59 < Mokbortolan_> I've been reading about IIS 7.0 :(
11:59 < brownies> my sympathies
11:59 < kanzure> brownies: i saw the weirdest paper recently,
11:59  * Mokbortolan_ gets paid to click "Next"
11:59 < kanzure> where there was a gene that disabled fear-based operant conditioning
12:00 < kanzure> Mokbortolan_: you get paid to click "Click here"
12:00 < Mokbortolan_> mostly Next, Finish, and OK
12:00 < Mokbortolan_> but I'm paid very well, so I can't complain too much
12:01 < Mokbortolan_> though this current gig is about to drive me crazy
12:01 < Mokbortolan_> a man can only do so much not work
12:01 < kanzure> http://dx.doi.org/10.1126/science.1208049
12:01 < kanzure> "Lin and her colleagues found that Npas4 turns on a series of other genes that modify the brain’s internal wiring by adjusting the strength of synapses, or connections between neurons."
12:01 < kanzure> "When the researchers knocked out the gene for Npas4, they found that mice could not remember their fearful conditioning. They also found that this
12:01 < kanzure> uced by knocking out the gene just in the CA3 region of the hippocampus. Knocking it out in other parts of the hippocampus, however, had no effect."
12:01 < kanzure> 11:49 < kanzure> i find it a little strange that 'contextual fear conditioning' can be narrowed down to a single transcription factor even if it is 'upstream'
12:02 < Mokbortolan_> crazy, how did they knock out a gene in a particular region of the brain?
12:02 < kanzure> Cre/loxP recombination-based gene deletion
12:03 < kanzure> see http://www.ccb.ufsc.br/~andre/artigos/Tsien96.pdf
12:04 < brownies> scumbag kanzure ... talks about interesting paper ... links to paywall.
12:04 < brownies> yea that does sound fascinating though
12:04 < brownies> strictly speaking, is fear-based conditioning really operant conditioning?
12:04 < kanzure> probably not
12:05 < brownies> i thought that "no negative reinforcement" was a pretty fundamental tenet of operant conditioning
12:05 < kanzure> wait, is the fact that "We broke some gene, and this broke some behavior!" really that surprising
12:05 < kanzure> oh maybe it was only that behavior that was effected
12:08 < brownies> right
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14:24 < bkero> kanzure: is that rocketry conversation actually between you and carmack?
14:25 < kanzure> yeah apparently
14:26 < bkero> hah nice
14:26 < bkero> What mailing list was that?
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14:28 < kanzure> bkero: arocket
14:28 < kanzure> on exrocketry
14:29 < bkero> ah
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14:38 < Mokbortolan_> anybody have any good docs on NLP they'd like to share?
14:39 < kanzure> augur: you?
14:39 < augur> no
14:39 < augur> i dont do NLP
14:39 < augur> NLP is a waste of time, to be honest
14:40 < Mokbortolan_> yeah, I'm kind of on the fence about it, just wanted to read a bit
14:40 < augur> Mokbortolan_: library.nu has plenty of things you can read
14:40 < kanzure> brownies: didn't you just get done saying library.nu is dead?
14:40 < Mokbortolan_> it's got a simpsons clip on the front
14:40 < kanzure> try gigapedia or library genesis (libgenesis)
14:41 < augur> uh
14:41 < augur> gigapedia _is_ library.nu
14:41 < kanzure> well. that would explain a few thinsg.
14:41 < augur> gigapedia proper got shut down and they relocated to a new domain...
14:42 < augur> if you go to gigapedia.com it jst redirects now
14:43 < Mokbortolan_> the whole "tricking women into sleeping with you" thing gives me a bad feeling
14:43 < kanzure> most people feel good about sex
14:43 < kanzure> just sayin'
14:43 < augur> yes, well, thats because tricking women into sleeping with you is called rape
14:45 < Mokbortolan_> thanks for pointing me at libgenesis kanzure
14:45 < Mokbortolan_> found three good erickson texts
14:45 < Mokbortolan_> they're rare as hens teeth otherwise, it seems
14:46 < Mokbortolan_> I wonder if it has that salter book
14:50 < Mokbortolan_> nope :(
14:50 < Mokbortolan_> it seems  like the world has forgotten Andrew Salter
15:02 < augur> regarding nlp, the most recent triumph is watson
15:02 < augur> and when you look at how it does what it does
15:02 < augur> its really a fucking joke
15:02 < augur> like, its embarrasing how crummy it is
15:02 < kanzure> are we talking about natural language processing or neurolinguistic programming
15:02 < augur> the former
15:03 < augur> unless IBM has gotten into the business of bullshit newage crap
15:03 < kanzure> "cloud"
15:03 < augur> :x
15:03 < augur> but like
15:03 < augur> watson is basically just looking for n-gram correlations in documents
15:03 < augur> maybe its doing some sophisticated stats over these correlations, but thats still all its doing
15:04 < augur> so when you ask it something like
15:04 < augur> who was the president of france during the nazi occupation or whatever
15:04 < augur> all it does is look for correlations between "nazi" and "president of france"
15:06 < kanzure> some people complaining about the occt licensing and CLA http://dev.opencascade.org/index.php?q=node/30
15:06 < kanzure> augur: i don't think watson counts as nlp
15:06 < kanzure> what about all the lexical analysis stuff
15:07 < augur> kanzure: i can tell you that watson is doing what the vast majority of NLP is doing
15:07 < augur> watson is situated well in the core of NLP
15:07 < augur> what lexical analysis stuff
15:07 < kanzure> i don't know, i'm making stuff up
15:08 < augur> :P
15:08 < kanzure> i have vague memories of papers that dealt with stuff much more interesting than n-grams in nlp
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15:08 < kanzure> but i can't recall any, so i'm probably making it up
15:09 < augur> oh sure, theres lots of other interesting things besides n-gram analysis
15:09 < augur> but n-gram stuff is _incredibly_ common
15:09 < augur> because its so darn cheap to do
15:09 < augur> anything more complex, that involves, say, structure
15:09 < augur> requires an enormous effort to build the grammar and to parse
15:09 < kanzure> yes
15:09 < augur> far faster and easier to just do n-gram
15:10 < kanzure> i'm pretty sure i've seen stuff like "read a paragraph from a story, now re-tell this part of the story based on available information"
15:11 < augur> sure, but that's not NLP, that's AI, or classic computational linguistics
15:11 < Mokbortolan_> oh, I was talking about neurolinguistic programming
15:12 < augur> unless we're talking about practical things like using a bunch of info and a blurb to randomly generate some article for a newsfeed or whatever
15:12 < augur> Mokbortolan_: neurolinguistic programming is bullshit
15:12 < Mokbortolan_> that's my take on it so far
15:13 < Mokbortolan_> I've been reading Erickson's stuff, what NLP is supposed to be based on
15:14 < augur> i dont know who erickson is but ill wager he's full of shit
15:14 < Mokbortolan_> trying to find 50's era takes on it
15:14 < Mokbortolan_> hahaha
15:14 < Mokbortolan_> Milton Erickson
15:15 < Mokbortolan_> you should look him up before you declare him full of shit, it's the least you can do :p
15:15 < augur> i wont even bother
15:16 < Mokbortolan_> fair enough
15:17 < kanzure> hmmm who's my nlp person in here.. where's enki2?
15:17 < Mokbortolan_> your opinion on the matter seems like it would be of little consequence anyway :p
15:19 < augur> theres not much consequence to have
15:19 < augur> its like homeopathy
15:19 < Mokbortolan_> indeed
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15:20 < augur> oh a midcentury psychiatrist
15:21 < augur> how utterly unsurprising
15:21 < augur> so basically everything he said was demonstrably pure opinion and had no basis in science
15:21 < augur> good to know
15:21 < Mokbortolan_> you sound so familiar with the topic
15:22 < augur> there was a scandal, of sorts, some time n the 60s
15:23 < augur> when a number of major psychiatric hospitals were demonstrated to be unable to distinguish between real mental illnesses and the imagined mental illness that the doctors saw after being told there was one (despite the person not having one)
15:23 < Mokbortolan_> was that the one where a number of people went to psychiatric hospitals and pretended to be ill upon admission, and then tried to get out again?
15:23 < augur> yes
15:24 < augur> where by "pretended to be ill" is "said they were ill but never demonstrated it"
15:24 < Mokbortolan_> I remember reading about that
15:24 < augur> essentially it demonstrated that the field was primarily fed by extreme confirmation bias on the part of the psychiatrists. they expected to see schizophrenia so they saw schizophrenia, or whatever, regardless of the actual behavior of the patient
15:24 < Mokbortolan_> sounds about right
15:25 < augur> the result was that the majority of psychiatric hospitals, at least as they existed at the time, ended up being shut down
15:25 < Mokbortolan_> as well they should have been, things were in a barbaric state at that time
15:25 < augur> the only psychological science im trusting of is experimental psychology, primarily of the cogntive/neural sort.
15:26 < augur> everything else is pure opinion. even psychiatrists will admit this, if pushed -- illness is defined as what is culturally unacceptable in the society
15:26 < augur> which is no definition of illness at all
15:27 < Mokbortolan_> I'm not in disagreement
15:27 < augur> the whole thing is, __by its own admission__, nothing more than a cultural police force under the guise of medicine
15:27 < augur> so i reserve the right to utterly discount everything the psychiatrists want to say about anything
15:28 < Mokbortolan_> sometimes it seems as though it's prettifying the results of our culture's effect on individuals
15:28 < Mokbortolan_> and you are welcome to do so
15:28 < Mokbortolan_> my interest lies in the phenomenon of hyponsis, and Mr. Erickson was an early experimenter
15:29 < Mokbortolan_> hypnosis
15:29 < Mokbortolan_> so, by studying his perspective, I can learn more about the phenomenon.
15:30 < augur> im skeptical that such a thing even exists
15:30 < augur> ive yet to see any actual evidence to this effect
15:30 < Mokbortolan_> I can assure you that it does exist
15:30 < Mokbortolan_> but, my assurance is not worth much :p
15:30 < kanzure> fenn: how are timezones/calendars going to work when we're all traveling at relativistic interstellar speeds? :/
15:31 < kanzure> the software for timezones barely works as it is
15:31 < Mokbortolan_> UTC ticks along nicely without the need for timezones
15:31 < Mokbortolan_> it's a solar phenomenon anyway
15:31 < kanzure> yes, but the reality is that you need to plan your calendar based on your days
15:31 < kanzure> most people synchronize their sleep with calendar days based on their timezone
15:32 < kanzure> fenn is an interesting case because his sleep schedule is fucked up
15:32 < augur> kanzure: obviously you just use whatever calendar you want using your onboard clocks
15:32 < kanzure> http://fennetic.net/sleep/cairo.html
15:32 < kanzure> blue is sleep
15:32 < augur> and convert underlying units
15:32 < kanzure> each line is 24 hours
15:32 < augur> Earth Calendar -> Earth UTC -> Relativistic UTC -> Relativist Calendar
15:33 < augur> also that link doesnt work
15:33 < Mokbortolan_> augur: what's really frightening is that a good tenth of the population is extremely susceptible to hypnosis
15:33 < augur> no theyre not
15:33 < Mokbortolan_> I believe it is the mechanism by which enculturation works
15:33 < kanzure> really? the link works for me
15:33 < augur> a good 10th of the population is extremely susceptible to money and/or being on stage and/or an easy way to bullshit people
15:35 < augur> kanzure: it tells me it cant find a sever
15:35 < augur> server*
15:35 < augur> so..
15:35 < kanzure> why does it work for me
15:35 < kanzure> what about http://www.fennetic.net/sleep/cairo.html
15:35 < kanzure> oh well, you can just watch him blab his mouthflap in a video
15:35 < kanzure> http://quantifiedself.com/2011/12/fenn-lipkowitzs-amazing-lifelog/
15:35 < kanzure> why does it work for me6
15:35 < kanzure> irssi error, ignore that
15:36 < augur> that one works
15:36 < augur> with www
15:36 < Mokbortolan_> assertions made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence: http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002344.html
15:40 < augur> interesting, i suppose.
15:41 < Mokbortolan_> trance states exist and they are very interesting IMHO
15:43 < Mokbortolan_> unless you believe those people who receive surgeries with hypnotic pain control techniques simply have absurdly high pain tolerances :p
15:46 < Mokbortolan_> how is it that people acquire irrational beliefs, anyway?
15:46 < brownies> well, the inverse is deeper ;) how the hell do they manage to hang on to them in the face of countervidence?
15:47 < brownies> kanzure: it's not *dead,* it just went private so now it's useless to me
15:47 < Mokbortolan_> the power of "the unconscious"
15:47 < Mokbortolan_> same mechanism as phobias, I think
15:47 < augur> brownies: why is it useless to you
15:48 < augur> what do you mean private
15:48 < brownies> augur: because i don't have an account =(
15:48 < augur> make one?
15:48 < Mariu> it's private
15:48 < brownies> .....
15:48 < kanzure> o.o
15:48 < augur> its been that way since at least the gigapedia days
15:48 < Mariu> I guess you can't make an account while it's private
15:48 < augur> uh
15:48 < brownies> yea but back in the day they had a login/register *and* it was public
15:49 < brownies> i guess they removed the "register" link right when they went private
15:49 < brownies> thereby becoming useless to me.
15:50 < augur> oh i see, theres no obvious registration link. ok
15:50 < brownies> is there a non-obvious registartion link?
15:50 < strangewarp> What is more likely: Acquiring irrational beliefs, or acquiring irrational beliefs due to hypnotic suggestion? The one which requires the fewest specific variables is more likely.
15:51 < kanzure> blah blah blah rationality blah
15:51 < Mokbortolan_> I think that's a false dichotomy there
15:51 < Mokbortolan_> I think that hypnosis is the underlying mechanism
15:51 < brownies> augur: found the registartion link but it's empty
15:51 < strangewarp> It may be a dichotomy, but if so then it is part of a spectrum.
15:51 < kanzure> strangewarp: clearly you have too much time available :3 how'd you like to do some css for me
15:51 < Mokbortolan_> rather than something additional tacked on
15:51 < strangewarp> kanzure: I'm bad with CSS.
15:51 < kanzure> crap.. well
15:52 < kanzure> do you have a liking for hatsune miku
15:52 < kanzure> i've been meaning to get this webgl hatsune miku thing working:
15:52 < augur> Mokbortolan_: then youve got a problem
15:52 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/hatsunemikugl/
15:52 < Mokbortolan_> or, perhaps more clearly, the practice of hypnosis utilizes the natural phenomenon of suggestion
15:52 < augur> because more than 10% of the population has irrational beliefs
15:52 < strangewarp> Hatsune Miku, that's the vocaloid thing?
15:52 < kanzure> yes, i wanted to get it working as a webgl demo
15:52 < Mokbortolan_> augur: most of them acquired during childhood
15:52 < brownies> bah. this is ridiculous. books should just be free.
15:52 < augur> Mokbortolan_: then that answers your question, doesnt it
15:52 < strangewarp> Mokbortolan: If hypnosis is an underlying mechanism, that's sill more specific than there being no underlying mechanism.
15:53 < brownies> and i can pay the artist... er, author... if it's good.
15:53 < kanzure> brownies: libgenesis
15:53 < augur> how do people acquire irrational beliefs: by being dumb children
15:53 < augur> i mean, i think its obvious how people acquire irrational beliefs
15:53 < kanzure> people don't 'acquire' a belief like a disease,
15:53 < Mokbortolan_> is it?
15:53 < kanzure> you can't just open up their skull and point to "The Beliefs"
15:53 < kanzure> that's BS
15:53 < kanzure> you should stop believing in beliefs
15:53 < Mokbortolan_> kanzure: you don't think beliefs are memes?
15:53 < augur> they're told that they're true, from people they trust, and end up incorporating these things into their world view
15:54 < Mokbortolan_> exactly
15:54 < Mokbortolan_> during a period of high "suggestibility"
15:54 < augur> there is no period of high suggestibility
15:54 < augur> everyone does this all the time
15:54 < augur> we believe people we trust because thats what trust is
15:55 < strangewarp> kanzure: I'm not familiar with vocaloid. Generally I've stayed away from VSTs and DSPs. Presently coding a MIDI sequencer for my weird hackish music setup. So.. I'd help with your vocaloid thing if I could, but I have no relevant experience with that particular area
15:55 < Mokbortolan_> so if someone you trust told you about the crumpus, you'd believe him?
15:55 < augur> if i had reason to believe he was a reliable source, yes, unless of course it conflicted with my pre-existing beliefs in which case i would challenge the idea
15:55 < Mokbortolan_> after childhood the logical mind seems to interpose itself between the outside world and the inside - in varying degrees
15:56 < augur> childhood is suffused with such things as well
15:56 < augur> and adults are not insusceptible to picking up irrational beliefs
15:56 < augur> and not due to any special suggestibility
15:56 < augur> just due to lack of understanding how to think rationally, lack of care to check whether something is true, desire to believe, etc.
15:56 < brownies> what is this "crumpus"
15:57 < augur> brownies: its like a crumpet only latin
15:57 < brownies> i believe in that
15:57 < brownies> that sounds tasty.
15:57 < augur> also, brownies, any time you want something from library.nu let me know
15:57 < augur> unless that time is right now.
15:57 < strangewarp> kanzure: Tangentially... I think I dislike LessWrong's high-level goals just as much as you do, and for similar reasons. I just developed my nose for reasoning while still a fanboy for them. When I whip out Occam's Razor I'm trying to help; sorry if the incidental rhetoric is similar. :x
15:58 < brownies> augur: sooo 5 minutes from now?
15:58 < brownies> just need one book, atm. or i could take 5 minutes to give you a big list =D
15:58 < augur> brownies: thats part of my now
15:58 < Mokbortolan_> augur: it's not a special suggestibility, it's the one that is already there
15:58 < augur> oh ok
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15:58 < brownies> you and your "time"
15:58 < augur> one book
15:58 < augur>  /fine/
15:58 < brownies> ok, let me grab the exact title
15:58 <@kanzure> can we stop talking about beliefs about beliefs? :/
15:58 < augur> Mokbortolan_: but thats what im saying, i dont think there is such a thing as suggestibility
15:58 <@kanzure> take that to lesswrong
15:59 < augur> NEVAR
15:59 < augur> ##not-hplusroadmap?
15:59 < Mokbortolan_> augur: how does that  jive with the practice of hypnotic surgery?
15:59 <@kanzure> there's #lesswrong
15:59 < brownies> augur: here or PM?
16:00 < Mariu> there's no wrong
16:01 < augur> brownies: here is fine
16:01 < brownies> augur: this one http://press.princeton.edu/titles/4247.html
16:01 < augur> just link me to the book on library.nu
16:01 < brownies> library.nu search is restricted access ... i tried.
16:02 < brownies> if they don't have that ^ i'll settle for the abridged version
16:02 <@kanzure> wait, how do you know if it's on library.nu then?
16:02 < brownies> i don't. i just assumed they had every book.
16:02 < brownies> don't they?
16:03 < brownies> damn expensive books
16:04 < augur> is it really
16:04 < augur> wow
16:05 < augur> brownies: now available on library.nu
16:05 < brownies> what?
16:05 < brownies> now == not?
16:06 <@kanzure> brownies: try searching on library genesis
16:06 < brownies> i did.
16:08 < Steel_> any of you actually been to singularity university?
16:09 <@kanzure> i've been.
16:09 <@kanzure> a few times. not as a student.
16:09 < Steel_> any thoughts on it?
16:09 < Mariu> how is it ?
16:09 < Steel_> (I don't plan on going as a student either)
16:09 <@kanzure> if you can get them to waive the payment, it's an ok vacation
16:09 <@kanzure> if you just want to show up and hang out, it's about the same
16:09 <@kanzure> just without the room/board/food, and they usually only let you sit in on one lecture or something
16:10 < Steel_> Ah
16:10 < Steel_> how do you feel about the efficacy of the lectures?
16:10 <@kanzure> you don't go there for the lectures
16:10 <@kanzure> if you want the lectures, watch the youtube videos
16:11 <@kanzure> you go there to meet people who can afford to drop 25k on learning about "THE FUTURE" or to be told about makerbot
16:11 < Steel_> hmm
16:11 < Steel_> does it tend to be business-y types?
16:11 < Steel_> or trust fund singularitarians?
16:11 <@kanzure> there's not many trust fund singularitarians :)
16:11 < augur> brownies: not**
16:11 < augur> yes.
16:11 <@kanzure> there's an 'executive' class- that's definitely businessy
16:11 < Steel_> hmm, something else to change
16:12 <@kanzure> i really want to do a transhumanist bootcamp
16:12 < Mariu> !
16:12 < Steel_> poke me if you do.
16:12 < augur> kanzure: where, crucially, the boots are cybernetic
16:12 <@kanzure> instead of lectures, you learn actual skills like tissue cultures, programming, rocketry, machining, asskicking
16:12 < Mariu> ^^
16:12 <@kanzure> i could teach or organize one, but i'm not focused or sold on it yet
16:13 <@kanzure> most people who have 25k to blow don't want to learn how to machine or how to build lab equipment
16:13 < Steel_> I still want to see if there's demographic breakdown of CNS activation strength (if it can even be measured)
16:14 < sylph_mako> brownies: the crumpus, I'd presume, is the krampus. Speaking of which, does anyone know where I can acquire krampus horns? You can't buy horns. Unless you're an austrian who wants to get drunk with his mates and run around on the December streets scaring children. Then the market for horns comes to you.
16:14 <@kanzure> man, i hate this: i can either convert this ass-old svn repository to git or i can write a script to parse out maps from old pokemon red roms
16:14 < strangewarp> There are a couple furries who could custom-build resin horns for you, I think... I forget who they are, though
16:14 <@kanzure> one of these sounds more fun than that..
16:15 <@kanzure> strangewarp: uh?
16:15 < strangewarp> @sylph_mako
16:15 < sylph_mako> kanzure, why move away from svn?
16:15 <@kanzure> sylph_mako: it's an old project someone dumped on me, and the team would like to hack on it under git
16:16 < Mariu> 'Then the market for horns comes to you.' hahaha epic !
16:17 < strangewarp> I saw one who was making resin horns recently, actually.. let me do a bit of searching..
16:17 < sylph_mako> strangewarp, why would people make horns? Do dismembered horns from animals degrade too fast?
16:18 < strangewarp> In some countries, there are laws against selling animal parts without a license, or at all; and I think actual animal horns do degrade unless they've been taxidermied? And even then, there are a lot of people who want custom shapes or sizes...
16:19 < strangewarp> sylph_mako: Looks like this person is making and selling resin horns: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/starborneworks/
16:19 < sylph_mako> Yeah I haven't decided on shape. I'm rather fond of curly ram horns but I could find something better.
16:22 < brownies> do you need a taxidermatologist for that?
16:23 < strangewarp> let's not mak any rash presumptions :I
16:23 < strangewarp> make, even. spelling fail
16:25 < sylph_mako> I'm unsure how to affix them to my head in a natural manor.
16:25 < strangewarp> That is a puzzler.. I have no experience in the area
16:26 < strangewarp> You could stick them to a headband or mask with certain resins, I think..
16:26 < sylph_mako> Implantation would probably necessitate skull reinforcement. So I cbf doing that. I also might have to shave patches..
16:27 < strangewarp> Yeah, you don't want anything resin-based interacting with biological tissues; I'm just talking in terms of costuming
16:28 < sylph_mako> Some kind of metal frame, perhaps.
16:28 < sylph_mako> Hehehe.
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16:33 < Steel_> wait, are you trying to actually have horns?
16:33 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-143-219.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
16:33 < strangewarp> KO
16:33 < Mariu> :o
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16:45 < strangewarp> I know there are certain preparations for coral that will fuse to bone, under certain conditions... but for horns, you'd have to do some pretty complicated things at the area where they break the skin, to prevent infection, and I don't think anybody has worked on that problem except in the context of fusing permanent metal prosthetics to leg bones and what-have-you..
16:51 < eudoxia> horns have their uses, but a forearm rectractable blade, Adam Jensen style would be better at the whole asskicking thing
16:51 < eudoxia> for kanzure's h+ camp's asskicking courses
16:53 < jrayhawk> you know what would be even better for asskicking? a holster and gun
16:53 < sylph_mako> I never really considered that they'd confer the ability to gore people. It's mostly a statement.
16:53 < Mariu> Adam Jensen !!!
16:53 < Mariu> yay !
16:54 < strangewarp> Well, technically, you'd just have to find a material that says to skin, 'Hey, attach yourself here!!', and then put a ring of it around the base of each horn...
16:54 < eudoxia> Yes, but with a gun,m you have to pull it out, pull back that thing on the back, make sure the safety allows you to kick some ass
16:54 < strangewarp> For that, I'd definitely advise specially prepared coral horn-shapes..
16:54 < eudoxia> and if there isn't a round in the chamber then fuck
16:54 < eudoxia> nobody EVER expects a forearm blade
16:54 < jrayhawk> why yes, if i am utterly unprepared for asskicking, i will indeed have a hard time doing any asskicking
16:55 < eudoxia> all they'll ever know is the cold steel moving up their throats and then you shout SURPRISE MOTHERFUCKER
16:56 < strangewarp> I am having trouble being enthusiastic about killing people, hm
16:56 < Mariu> how would one sleep ?
16:56 < sylph_mako> That's good. Enthusiasm doesn't help.
16:56 < jrayhawk> phpht, i bet you played a pacifist Jenson
16:56 < jrayhawk> pansy
16:56 < Mariu> when having hornes I mean
16:56 < eudoxia> I actually played rather pacifist
16:56 < Mariu> *horns
16:56 < jrayhawk> me too :(
16:56 < eudoxia> Until they tried to kill Malik and then I snapped
16:56 < sylph_mako> Good point. If I sleep on my back I'll snore.
16:56 < strangewarp> Mariu: fluffy pillows
16:57 < Mariu> =p
16:57 < strangewarp> I didn't play any Jenson, since I'm a poor-ass mooch who doesn't get video games :p
16:58 < sylph_mako> Don't worry, it wasn't about transhumanism. Only the story was.
16:58 < jrayhawk> I hear it's possible to pacifist+ghost the malik section, but man I didn't see how.
16:58 < sylph_mako> The gameplay had little to do with it.
16:58 < eudoxia> Well how will the gameplay be h+-related?
16:58 < eudoxia> 'Install a neuroprosthethic on this guy' minigames?
16:58 < sylph_mako> Well you'd have expect people to focus on augmentations we'll actually have to start worrying about in future.
16:59 < sylph_mako> Things like added senses.
16:59 < Mariu> does Deus Ex 3 have anything h+ related ? I'm curious about that as well
16:59 < sylph_mako> IDK I remember thinking they wern't being good sci-fi. I don't remember what my objections were very clearly.
16:59 < jrayhawk> Deus Ex is entirely h+ related.
16:59 < Mariu> ^_^
16:59 < Mariu> cool then
17:00 < sylph_mako> Oh yeah, there was the fact that your superhuman strength gets used up like ammo.
17:00 < sylph_mako> What the ass were they thinking.
17:00 < eudoxia> well they have to add limitations
17:00 < eudoxia> Otherwiser you could've just run around the whole game stabbing people with those cool ass forearm blades
17:01 < jrayhawk> Which was actually possible, but took a lot of waiting around.
17:01 < Mariu> will be nice to have augmentation that make you fly
17:01 < Mariu> *augmentations
17:01 < sylph_mako> If they hadn't they might have actually had to design a game that transcends the current status quo of combat. That would be too hard.
17:02 < jrayhawk> The new Syndicate game will theoretically include a lot more mind-hacking gimmicks.
17:02 < sylph_mako> Wont that also necessitate lightening your bones[and carrying very little] or spending a ton on fuel?
17:02 < sylph_mako> Because exploiting software vulnerabilities is like playing a mini game.
17:03 < strangewarp> Fly in a realistic haptic simulation in whatever body you want, problem solved
17:04 < sylph_mako> Hacking should be like: You buy a crack from some dealer, you use it, it's effortless. Then the targets fix the vulnerability at some point later on.
17:05 < Mokbortolan_> isn't that what metasploit is? :p
17:05 < eudoxia> 'whatever body you want' has a lot of problems with mapping
17:05 < eudoxia> If the character has wings and a tail contact on those has to be sent somewhere to make it realistic
17:06 < sylph_mako> ?
17:06 < strangewarp> eudoxia: I had the same argument at one point, but I was convinced the human nervous system is more plastic than people give it credit for, after someone did the sixth-finger thought-experiment on me
17:07 < sylph_mako> Ait.
17:07 < eudoxia> strangewarp: I agree completely, it's just, isn't it a little expensive for a gaming experience to have to cut someone's skull open and put some wires in the sensory and motor neurons
17:08 < eudoxia> It will be feasible once everyone has ethernet cables on their scalp
17:08 < strangewarp> For now, definitely.. and, yeah
17:09 < sylph_mako> Hm. I'd imagine shells would try to map familiar extremities; a tank's cannon might map to a particular throat muscle.
17:09 < sylph_mako> No that would be a terrible mapping :D
17:10 < eudoxia> Fire a shell = throw up
17:10 < sylph_mako> It would feel so cool. And strange.
17:12 < eudoxia> I would imagine that with something like an upload, sensory and motor neurons going down the spine would be arrayed and you could have different 'drivers' providing different mappings
17:13 < eudoxia> so the standard one would map those to a virtual body model of a baseline human
17:13 < eudoxia> or you could unplug the driver for your, say, left hand and plug a driver for an industrial Stewart platform
17:13 < eudoxia> all sorts of crazy shit
17:13 < ybit> i want h+ bootcamp to happen
17:14 < sylph_mako> Your talk of plugs reminded me what I'm supposed to be doing right now.
17:14 < sylph_mako> I need to make input device connections explicit and malleable, all in a way that's accessible to any old user.
17:15 < strangewarp> Hmm, I need to be coding some silly MIDI things in a silly-bad language right now, myself
17:16 < sylph_mako> for instance; the user could wire a second keyboard to a particular X window. And they could see how the primary keyboard runs through all kinds of routers, the window manager's focus tracker sitting just before the end of the chain.
17:18 < sylph_mako> strangewarp, how do you bring yourself to use a silly-bad language? I'd tend to end up just sitting there trying to figure out how to fix it.
17:18 < strangewarp> Mostly because it didn't seem so silly-bad when I'd started learning it, and now I'm stuck writing an important program in it
17:18 < eudoxia> which reminds me I'm supposed to be writing a Lisp-to-C++ translator
17:19 < sylph_mako> Why would you do that?
17:19 < eudoxia> so I can use Qt, of course
17:19 < sylph_mako> Hm.
17:21 < ybit> eudoxia: qt mobile?
17:21 < eudoxia> just regular desktop Qt
17:21 < ybit> heh
17:22 < ybit> personally, i think you should revive the haskell/qt bindings :)
17:22 < ybit> have you played around with that lang?
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17:23 < eudoxia> Haskell? no, not really. I liked your mascot though
17:23 < eudoxia> From the examples I've seen it has too much syntax
17:24 < ybit> i would like to go through sicp at some point, but there's a lot on my plate atm
17:24 < ybit> have been forcing myself to listen to spanish broadcasts going down the road
17:24 < eudoxia> I tried reading SICP, too academical
17:24 < ybit> when i could be listening in on the class
17:25 < ybit> i spent about as much time reading as i did watching
17:25 < ybit> and i learned more reading
17:25 < eudoxia> I was using Common Lisp which is a good non-academic Lisp but holy god the error messages
17:25 < mokmok> We should all just get it over with and learn esperanto
17:25 < ybit> read the first chapter and watched the first lesson
17:25 < mokmok> Then we can get back to building the space elevator
17:26 < Urchin> I've watched SICP lectures, those were, well, a bit strange, but good, has helped me with C, actually
17:26 < Urchin> Common Lisp I tried to learn, but I was missing some fundamentals at the time
17:27 < eudoxia> It's the only language I was productive with, but as soon as I tried to walk out of the language core and try some of the libraries
17:27 < eudoxia> oh god
17:28 < eudoxia> you ever saw those libraries last updated in 2003, that have three mailing lists dedicated to them and absolutely zero documentation?
17:28 < Urchin> no, missed that part, I'm afraid
17:29 < Urchin> I never fully learned that language
17:29 < eudoxia> well, I sort of meant in a general way
17:29 < Urchin> *or even reasonably well
17:29 < eudoxia> it can't be exclusively a common lisp disease
18:04 <@kanzure> offline html5 wikipedia http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3409512
18:04 <@kanzure> in my comment i point to git.js and a wikipedia version dumped into git
18:04 <@kanzure> http://scytale.name/blog/2009/11/announcing-levitation
18:04 <@kanzure> http://www.readwriteweb.com/hack/2011/08/gitjs-a-git-implementation-in.php
18:17 < ybit> why is git.js needed?
18:18 < ybit> i thought about doing dvcs in js but didn't see the point
18:18 < ybit> does the future really have to be js+git+webkit?
18:20 <@kanzure> no it doesn't have to be that way
18:20 <@kanzure> but for mobile there's certain advantages to html over a proprietary app store
18:21 < ybit> i understand this
18:21 < ybit> let's just stick to why git.js for now
18:23 < ybit> """
18:23 < ybit> Now you can run git on a non-jailbroken iOS device?
18:23 < ybit> .
18:23 < ybit> .
18:23 < ybit> .
18:23 < ybit> I got nothin'.
18:23 < ybit> """
18:23 < ybit> from http://www.reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/ili1n/gitjs_a_git_implementation_in_pure_javascript/
18:25  * ybit walks away from comp
18:41 <@kanzure> yep.. you got it
18:41 <@kanzure> or you can run git in a web browser for someone who is too lame to install it
18:46 < JayDugger1> Well, that's pretty interesting...
18:48 -!- JayDugger1 [~duggerj@pool-173-74-73-196.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:49 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-73-196.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:53 < JayDugger> And now my name works fine.
18:54 -!- mokmok [~AndChat@mobile-198-228-221-025.mycingular.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
19:19 < JayDugger> I think QuantumG worked for Raytheon, 50%?
19:28 <@kanzure> raytheon? that might be it
19:28 < JayDugger> Yeah, it came up in conversation with him when I mention Raytheon working on an Android-based tablet or PDA for the American military.
19:29 < JayDugger> Since then I read rumors that users kept buying models off-the-shelf.
19:30 < JayDugger> s/mention/mentioned
19:55 < jrayhawk> fwiw git is too inflexible and unscalable for something like Wikipedia
19:55 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-76-125-244-96.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:55 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: yeh so let's just store everything in mysql
19:55 <@kanzure> with a custom revision control system
19:57 < jrayhawk> You're going to have to make a custom revision control system sooner or later, and MySQL, while bad in a lot of ways, is still going to work out better than, for instance, packfiles.
19:58 < jrayhawk> That said, Mediawiki's revision control system is garbage.
20:01 -!- Argentum [~EWinter@ool-18bb299d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:01 <@kanzure> hi Argentum
20:01 <@kanzure> logs are http://gnusha.org/logs/2011-12-30.log
20:03 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by ChanServ
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21:33 -!- Mokbortolan is now known as Moktarino
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22:12 < kanzure> jrayhawk: newrepo should complain when a reponame would probably cause an invalid username
22:12 < kanzure> for instance, 99repo
22:15 < jrayhawk> huh
22:46 -!- klafka [~textual@cpe-74-74-157-63.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:47 < jrayhawk> that 99repo thing is fixed
22:47 < Moktarino> http://www.plxwave.com/
22:48 < Moktarino> that is way uglier than the epoc
22:49 < jrayhawk> As long as their sensors are better...
22:49 < kanzure> thanks jrayhawk
22:49 < Moktarino> I'm just trying to make myself feel better for spending 3x as much and not having an android interface
22:49 < kanzure> :)
22:50 < kanzure> to be fair! i told you that you would be disappointed
22:50 < kanzure> i suppose this was after you purchased it
22:50 < kanzure> can you return it?
22:50 < Moktarino> naa
22:50 < Moktarino> it's OK
22:50 < Moktarino> this works fine
22:50 < kanzure> no the whole point is that it's *not* okay
22:50 < Moktarino> I might get one of those other ones too
22:50 < kanzure> refuse inferior technology!
22:50 < kanzure> hehe
22:50 < Moktarino> it's not inferior
22:50 < Moktarino> and besides, I had a saturn
22:50 < kanzure> "Just different"
22:50 < Moktarino> and I liked it!
22:50 < kanzure> hah
22:51 < Moktarino> my brother got a playstation
22:51 < Moktarino> I got a saturn
22:52 < Moktarino> I guess that's the major downside of being an early adopter
22:52 < kanzure> you also know about neurosky yes?
22:52 < Moktarino> of bluetooth 4.0
22:52 < Moktarino> nope
22:52 < kanzure> or openeeg
22:53 < Moktarino> I've heard of openeeg
22:53 < Moktarino> and I remember it being in a pretty raw state last I looked
22:55 < Moktarino> the neurosky doesn't scream dork as much as the plxwave thing
22:56 < Moktarino> but it's also not bluetooth
23:15 < Moktarino> how many channels is the neurosky?
23:15 < Moktarino> 1?
23:16 < kanzure> don't recall.. 1 sounds right?
23:18 < Moktarino> Hmm
23:18 < Moktarino> the plxwave says "8 EEG bands"
23:19 < Moktarino> ahhh, those refer to alpha/beta/etc
23:26 < Moktarino> wow though, I'm doing the "SMR enhancement" session
23:26 < Moktarino> I really feel more awake...
23:26 < Moktarino> maybe it's psychosomatic, and "SMR enhancement" is supposed to make me sleepy...
23:29 < Moktarino> SMR neurofeedback doen't look like it wakes you up..
23:31 < kanzure> links?
23:32 < Moktarino> http://www.eegspectrum.com/Applications/ADHD-ADD/EfficacySMR-BetaIntro2/
23:34 < Moktarino> whatever it does, it made all of my eyestrain stop
--- Log closed Sat Dec 31 00:00:53 2011