--- Log opened Thu Jan 19 00:00:22 2012
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06:44 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone.
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07:16 < Mariu> hello everyone
07:54 < archels> 'lo
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09:47 < Mariu> see you guys
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17:24 < fenn> hum it's been 20 days since i logged in?
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17:56 < kanzure> fenn: WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN
17:56 < kanzure> :(
17:59 < foucist> probably experimenting with his own dna
17:59 < Steel_zzz> kanzure: who's at the center of the wheel of h+ organizations these days
18:00 < Steel_zzz> and how has the departure of Pearce been treated?
18:00 < kanzure> do you mean "who is actually competent and should be treated as the center"
18:00 < kanzure> or "who has claimed the center"
18:00 < Steel_zzz> who is the person pulling the most strings, competent or not
18:00 < kanzure> pulling the most strings? peter thiel
18:00 < Steel_zzz> who should be?
18:01 < foucist> is peter thiel active in the management?
18:01 < kanzure> foucist: no
18:01 < kanzure> i don't know what you're asking really
18:01 < kanzure> do you want a list of names of everyone
18:01 < kanzure> and then what criteria do you need me to sort on?
18:01 < Steel_zzz> Ideally name, relationships, and relative power balances :V
18:01 < Steel_zzz> (in a dream world)
18:01 < kanzure> power balance? what the hell are you smoking
18:01 < kanzure> what does that even mean
18:02 < foucist> steel is asking who has claimed the center
18:02 < Steel_zzz> okay
18:02 < kanzure> humanity+
18:02 < Steel_zzz> people have influence over each other
18:02 < Steel_zzz> and money sometimes
18:02 < kanzure> but they haven't really "claimed" it
18:02 < Steel_zzz> and public relations sometimes
18:02 < kanzure> i mean, they are a pretty weak claim
18:02 < Steel_zzz> and there's lots of little interplays and interconnects
18:02 < kanzure> ok, so you just want "who has released the most press statements" ?
18:02 < foucist> who's the active manager
18:03 < kanzure> of humanity+?
18:03 < Steel_zzz> I guess the clear answer  here is
18:03 < Steel_zzz> the movement is a headless chicken
18:03 < kanzure> what movement?
18:03 < Steel_zzz> I want to be a member of the bilderberg group :( [is jealous of thiel and musk]
18:03 < eudoxia> nobody is competent enough to be the manager so that leaves a big power void that's just waiting to be filled
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18:03 < kanzure> eudoxia: i can think of some people that might be competent enough
18:04 < eudoxia> haha, "power". get it?
18:04 < kanzure> but nobody would care
18:04 < kanzure> except me maybe.
18:04 < eudoxia> kanzure: well, there are some people I can see running the movement
18:04 < Steel_zzz> who's your list of competent people?
18:04 < kanzure> nobody would care who has skills, resources or money
18:04 < eudoxia> but nobody has actually claimed it
18:04 < kanzure> is what i mean.
18:04 < eudoxia> so headless chicken
18:04 < kanzure> it's not a headless chicken- there's no chicken!
18:05 < foucist> kanzure: a political tip..  interpret the question in your own terms and then answer it fully, even if you answer the wrong question..  rather than being obtuse and challenging the asker to ask a more relevant question
18:05 < kanzure> foucist: they should be asking what i need to accomplish my projects
18:05 < kanzure> not asking all this political shit
18:05 < eudoxia> another movement that turns out to have been a paranoid schizophrenic hallucination :(
18:05 < kanzure> Here is what I need:
18:05 < kanzure> 1) i need more men
18:06 < kanzure> 2) i need a budget that i don't have to suck dick for
18:06 < Steel_zzz> where's the complete listing of your projects and what's needed for each?
18:06 < kanzure> 3) for people to get out of my way
18:06 < kanzure> Steel_zzz: there's no complete listing, but here's an ok start http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diytranshumanism_projects.v4.html
18:06 < foucist> kanzure: who are you?  you should be asking what i need to accomplish my projects :P
18:06 < eudoxia> the link is down
18:07 < eudoxia> but I remember a transhuman_projects file with things like the Gada prize and the DIY AFM
18:07 < kanzure> oops
18:07 < kanzure> -ism
18:07 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diytranshuman_projects.v4.html
18:07 < kanzure> i can't remember all these urls, sorry
18:08 < Steel_zzz> Man, what you need a publicist.
18:08 < kanzure> no, that wasn't on my list
18:08 < kanzure> i told you exactly what i need
18:08 < Steel_zzz> an html document doesn't convince anyway
18:08 < Steel_zzz> *anyone
18:08 < kanzure> i don't need to convince you
18:08 < eudoxia> needs some CSS
18:08 < kanzure> eudoxia: haha
18:09 < kanzure> actually, it seems i need to convince you that i don't need publicity
18:09 < kanzure> but you're probably the sort of person that believes in PR eh
18:10 < Steel_zzz> yes
18:11 < kanzure> Steel_zzz: so if you really like publicity, why don't you just go suck up to humanity+?
18:12 < kanzure> i'm serious
18:12 < kanzure> and/or using it to illustrate a point
18:12 < Steel_zzz> Because it's too venn diagram with SIAI
18:12 < Steel_zzz> overlap
18:13 < Steel_zzz> I don't consider them effective
18:13 < Steel_zzz> OR
18:13 < Steel_zzz> having good PR
18:13 < kanzure> i posit that they are ineffective because of their focus on pr
18:13 < Steel_zzz> I posit their pr sucks.
18:13 < kanzure> even if they had fantastic pr, they would still be doing the same things (pr)
18:14 < kanzure> the reality is that their max fundraising campaign only brought in like $15k
18:14 < kanzure> that's not anything at all
18:14 < Steel_zzz> Right
18:14 < kanzure> so let's just forget this pr thing
18:14 < Steel_zzz> And I don't think they're doing it right at all
18:14 < kanzure> and just get the projects done
18:14 < eudoxia> Open Source Ecology has nice PR
18:14 < eudoxia> at least, you know, in my uneducated opinion
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18:15 < Steel_zzz> And I also don't think diy is going to be what gets this done as much as university labs.
18:15 < eudoxia> nice layout, complete wiki, regular quality videos
18:15 < kanzure> Steel_zzz: the differene between you and i seems to be that you're ok imagining that labs are going to do things for you
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18:15 < Steel_zzz> no, I'm in a lab doing it now.
18:15 < Steel_zzz> well, not literally right now
18:15 < kanzure> pr?
18:16 < Steel_zzz> the science.
18:16 < Steel_zzz> but people who believe in where this is going
18:16 < kanzure> believe in what?
18:16 < Steel_zzz> transhumanism
18:16 < kanzure> ok can you be more specific
18:16 < Steel_zzz> the elevation of the human beyond the constraints of our natural biology
18:16 < kanzure> ok, so it's an ethics lab?
18:16 < eudoxia> i don't think that's what he was asking
18:16 < kanzure> jesus
18:16 < Steel_zzz> Oh
18:17 < Steel_zzz> my lab?
18:17 < Steel_zzz> I do nanoprinting
18:17 < kanzure> Steel_zzz: talking with you is really hard
18:17 < Steel_zzz> I would say the same about you :)
18:17 < kanzure> you do nanoprinting, and you think they are going to fund transhumanist projects because..?
18:17 < kanzure> the reality is that if you want funding form a university, you usually assign them 52% of your grant money
18:17 < kanzure> *from a university
18:17 < Steel_zzz> no, I think that the job of people who believe in transhumanist things is to work on the cultural views of it
18:17 < kanzure> 52%+ish
18:17 < Steel_zzz> and to spread the ideals
18:17 < Steel_zzz> so that the rest of the world catches on
18:17 < Steel_zzz> and that funding goes more and more to science
18:17 < kanzure> that's a load of bunk- then everyone is working on "culture"
18:18 < eudoxia> and then it's XFF all over again oh god
18:18 < kanzure> eudoxia: did you watch that ?
18:18 < kanzure> and may i ask, why did you watch it
18:18 < Steel_zzz> I dunno, I believe in the diy, but I also think that more concerted effort needs to be made to connect transhumanism with the regular person.
18:19 < kanzure> what the heck does that even mean
18:19 < eudoxia> kanzure: I wanted to see how bad it was
18:19 < kanzure> eudoxia: :x i didn't see it
18:19 < Steel_zzz> That means that we need to make it considered the norm
18:19 < Steel_zzz> Instead of a weird fringe thing
18:19 < kanzure> i don't care what the norm is?
18:19 < eudoxia> kanz: you didn't miss much
18:19 < eudoxia> michael anissimov's new haircut really puts the ass in asperger's though
18:19 < kanzure> there's a really big cognitive disconnect between you and me Steel_zzz and i can't figure out what it is
18:19 < Steel_zzz> pic?
18:19 < kanzure> you seem to want approval from your peers?
18:19 < kanzure> but it seems different from this
18:19 < Steel_zzz> kanzure: I see this as something all the world should reach for.
18:20 < Steel_zzz> Because I want to make all humans into 'god-like' being as fast as possible
18:20 < eudoxia> http://blogs.laweekly.com/stylecouncil/ExtremeFuturistFest3.jpg
18:20 < kanzure> Steel_zzz: ok
18:20 < Steel_zzz> it's not a bowlcut
18:20 < kanzure> just so that we're clear,
18:20 < kanzure> you want to do forced uplifting?
18:21 < Steel_zzz> Tempting to say yes, but no.
18:21 < eudoxia> oh this is gonna get good
18:21 < Steel_zzz> 1) Death should be made illegal in my opinion.
18:21 < Steel_zzz> once it's possible
18:21 < kanzure> what's #2
18:21 < Steel_zzz> 2) It should be made as cheap as possible, at least for immortality/implants.
18:22 < eudoxia> the government can't pass a simple healthcare bill and you expect them to pass a bill requiring forced cryopreservation of dead persons?
18:22 < kanzure> ok why does it have to cost money? that's the first fflaw i see
18:22 < Steel_zzz> I believe that the concept of money will never truly leave
18:22 < Steel_zzz> you can always find a use for more mass/energy and computation
18:22 < kanzure> eudoxia: it would be cool to do something like futurama's "near death star" where dying people are stolen and preserved
18:22 < kanzure> eudoxia: we can set up an underground lair where we freeze nearly-dead bodies
18:22 < Steel_zzz> So I don't believe in true post-scarcity, just making it such a miniscule worry
18:23 < kanzure> eudoxia: can you get some popcorn
18:23 < eudoxia> well it's always better to assume scarcity will be there than to assume robots will show up at our doorstep with immortality
18:23 < Steel_zzz> Even with robots and immortality, there's still scarcity
18:23 < kanzure> Steel_zzz: so, you think that you need to convince them so that you can force them to go through with these things?
18:24 < delinquentme> Steel_zzz, can i copy some of that porn you have on your HD
18:24 < delinquentme> ?
18:24 < Steel_zzz> If I convince them it's not forcing.
18:24 < Steel_zzz> delinquentme: Why the hell would I download porn?
18:24 < kanzure> there's two things we're talking about now, first is why you're interested in convincing people of the publicity, and second why you're interested in forced uplifting (sorta)
18:24 < delinquentme> bc thats post scarce
18:24 < eudoxia> because videos are taken down and links die and threads 404
18:24 < Steel_zzz> no it isn't :P
18:24 < delinquentme> I've got porn you've got porn and we can all get as much porn as we'd like
18:24 < Steel_zzz> For instance, there's a dearth of certain fetishes I've looked for
18:24 < delinquentme> so we currently HAVE post scarce resources
18:24 < delinquentme> lololol
18:25 < delinquentme> ok well yes as it stands like some "niche markets"
18:25 < delinquentme> we aren't post scarce for some resources
18:25 < Steel_zzz> kanzure: More people convinced, less Fukuyama, less fighting, faster progress.
18:25 < delinquentme> ^^^^^^
18:26 < kanzure> i can't think of a single instance that fukuyama has stopped or inhibited my projects
18:26 < kanzure> i'm sorry, but he's really not that important
18:26 < kanzure> you wanna know what's important? this god damn compiler error that i'm fixing at the moment
18:26 < kanzure> or that plexiglass i picked up yesterday
18:27 < Steel_zzz> people like fukuyama, if not him precisely, are what led to the slowdown in stem cell research
18:27 < eudoxia> what an asshole
18:27 < Steel_zzz> So everyone I talk to and get to know in a least a private setting, I try to sell on transhumanism.
18:27 < Steel_zzz> My mom, my friends, dance team, weightlifters
18:27 < Steel_zzz> gamers
18:27 < Steel_zzz> everyone.
18:28 < kanzure> that's a little creepy
18:28 < eudoxia> that's got to be creepy
18:28 < Steel_zzz> Not at first, of course
18:28 < Steel_zzz> but after we get to know each other.
18:28 < Steel_zzz> I convinced my mom to do cryo.
18:28 < kanzure> you have a lot to learn if you want to run a proper cult
18:28 < Steel_zzz> I don't want a cult.
18:28 < Steel_zzz> Power, yes. Cult, no.
18:28 < kanzure> it sure sounds like it
18:28 < kanzure> right... ok
18:28 < Steel_zzz> really, I want to run a consulting firm
18:29 < kanzure> for nanoprinting?
18:29 < Steel_zzz> no...?
18:29 < Steel_zzz> fuck my thesis
18:29 < Steel_zzz> policy/business implications of augmentation and emerging technology, actually
18:30 < eudoxia> like if there's software that can only be run by a guy with an aug is that discrimination etc.
18:33 < Steel_zzz> anyway
18:33 -!- Steel_zzz is now known as Steel_afk
18:37 < delinquentme> i think im with him on it
18:37 < delinquentme> also you've got to gauge the audience
18:38 < delinquentme> you're not selling transhumanism to a concerv xtian
18:39 < eudoxia> well you can always try to reprogram
18:39 < eudoxia> but that is impolite
18:42 < delinquentme> haha
18:43 < delinquentme> eudoxia, between you and me the ones who have already reprogrammed are those with higher mental Horsepower :D
18:43 < delinquentme> oh and hows the work coming eudoxia ??
18:43 < eudoxia> well depends on which work
18:43 < delinquentme> I've got interviews for 2 diff companies doing bio / programming stuff ... so It took under a year to make the transition :D
18:44 < eudoxia> but your speech that other day inspired me to drop minecraft and go learn calc from the OCW <3
18:44 < kanzure> good
18:44 < kanzure> everyone should know how to use a calculator
18:44 < kanzure> maybe you'll eventually get up to calculus
18:44 < kanzure> (i'm kidding)
18:49 < delinquentme> calc! nice
18:50 < delinquentme> lol
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18:58 < Steel_afk> minecraft is a good way to intrinsically learn logic gates (I've heard)
18:59 < sylph_mako> I woudln't agree. You can't do abstraction.
18:59 < Steel_afk> fuck. gold :(
18:59 < Steel_afk> *cold
18:59 < eudoxia> I could implement Rule 110 in Minecraft but couldn't in Lisp
18:59 < eudoxia> herp derp
19:00 < sylph_mako> I think messing around with logisim is a better way to learn logic gates. I had a lot of fun with that.
19:02 < sylph_mako> While I'm averse to making anything complex in minecraft cause it feels like a clusterfuck. The Wrong Way to do logic programming.
19:08 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone.
19:10 < kanzure> ""The problem for the content industry is they just don't know how to mobilize people," said John P. Feehery, a former House Republican leadership aide who previously worked at the motion picture association. "They have a small group of content makers, a few unions, whereas the Internet world, the social media world especially, can reach people in ways we never feared before."
19:11 < sylph_mako> Hahahahaha
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19:32 < Mariu> hey guys
19:33 < kanzure> nice.. reconnected with an internet buddy from 2002
19:33 < Mariu> cool
19:33 < Mariu> hey kanzure
19:35 < Mariu> kanzure, what's new ?
19:36 < kanzure> not much- busy coding
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--- Log closed Fri Jan 20 00:00:23 2012