--- Log opened Fri Jan 27 00:00:34 2012
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01:09 < kanzure> hrm.. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ninja/ninja-blocks-connect-your-world-with-the-web
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01:15 < falmot> http://arbornet.org/~flamoot/telepathic-critterdrug.html
01:15 < falmot> new species upped todayt
01:15 < falmot> -t
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01:22 < dsp_> hello
01:29 < kanzure> hi dsp_
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01:33 < Mariu> what's that ?
01:33 < Mariu> advertising ?
01:40 <@kanzure> schizophrenic homeless guy
01:41 <@kanzure> thinks ben goertzel is in cahoots with some aliens in orbit
01:41 <@kanzure> that implanted a chip in his head
01:41 <@kanzure> and started a singularity
01:41 <@kanzure> he's probably right, but i don't want to deal with it
01:41 < Mariu> lol
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05:54 <@kanzure> hi FreedomGeek
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06:49 < FreedomGeek> Oh, Hi.
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06:52 <@kanzure> kinda delayed?
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07:19 < FreedomGeek> Kind of. I was (and still am) mostly paying attention to other things,
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07:50 < utopiah_> http://www.soton.ac.uk/~decode/index_files/Page804.htm
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08:22 <@kanzure> blegh
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09:38 < utopiah_> http://code.google.com/p/sixthsense/ now GPL
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09:51 < falmot> http://www.iheartchaos.com/post/16393143676/fun-with-math-dividing-one-by-998001-yields-a
09:51 < falmot> wtf
09:51 < falmot> carl sagan's Contact
09:51 < falmot> shades of
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15:34 < Mariu> see you all later
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15:40 <@kanzure> nope
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19:29 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone.
19:32 <@kanzure> hi
20:03 < delinquentme> so project euler makes me feel like an idot
20:03 < delinquentme> ^^^ see!!!!!!!
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22:03 < Zach_> s
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22:05 <@kanzure> who is Zach342342343294
22:05 < Zach342342343294> a random person kind of interested in transhumanism...
22:05 < Zach342342343294> is this a private channel?
22:05 <@kanzure> no
22:06 < Zach342342343294> sorry i was just kind of dicking around and stumbled upon it
22:06 < klafka> :P
22:06 <@kanzure> http://gnusha.org/logs/
22:06 < klafka> i can't tell if these pants smell like cigarettes
22:06 < klafka> or wtf
22:06 < Zach342342343294> is hplus magazine still in print?
22:06 <@kanzure> no
22:06 <@kanzure> hplusmagazine is just a blog
22:06 < Zach342342343294> didn't they used to have an actual magazine tho?
22:06 <@kanzure> yes, but nobody bought it
22:07 < Zach342342343294> makes sence
22:07 < Zach342342343294> ever since i got a smart phone i've stopped reading magazines in the bathroom
22:08 < delinquentme> Zach342342343294, let me know when you can wipe with ur smartphone
22:09 < Zach342342343294> ever since i got one with a physical keyboard
22:10 < Zach342342343294> how connected are all the tranhumanist/anti-death/singularity groups
22:10 < Zach342342343294> if noone minds me asking
22:10 < delinquentme> Zach342342343294, i shit with my laptop
22:11 < delinquentme> does that answer your question?
22:11 < delinquentme> if i could have it wired up i would :D
22:11 <@kanzure> Zach342342343294: pretty well connected.. why?
22:11 < Zach342342343294> you must have a giant ass
22:11 < klafka> you guys are antagonistic tonight
22:11 < klafka> heh
22:11 <@kanzure> i haven't slept in 40 hours
22:11 < yashgaroth> it's all the chafing from their deviant bathroom activities
22:11 < Zach342342343294> i was just wondering....it seems like there are like three focused on immortality, one or two existenial risk
22:12 <@kanzure> existential risk is mostly bullshit
22:12 < Zach342342343294> don't knock it till you've tried it yashgaroth
22:12 <@kanzure> why do you care about the groups, are you looking to contribute
22:12 < Zach342342343294> not really in a large enough sum to make a difference
22:13 < yashgaroth> do you have technical expertise
22:13 <@kanzure> ok then why are you here
22:13 < Zach342342343294> i'm just kind of wondering how viable the whole transhumanism thing is
22:13 <@kanzure> it's viable
22:13 < delinquentme> lolol
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22:13 < Zach342342343294> not really
22:13 < delinquentme> Zach342342343294, more viable the quicker you start working at it
22:13 < delinquentme> agreed?
22:13 < delinquentme> :D
22:14 <@kanzure> delinquentme: i hate explaining that to people. it's just endless.
22:14 < delinquentme> and existential dilemmas ? eff that colonize other planets
22:14 < Zach342342343294> is there any opportunity for neuroscience stuff? i would like to contribute but am just a student
22:14 < delinquentme> kanzure, i think there are multiple approaches
22:14 < delinquentme> preachy vrs inspiring
22:14 <@kanzure> everyone is brainwashed into the opposite opinion
22:14 <@kanzure> it's a losing battle
22:14 <@kanzure> doesn't matter anyway.
22:14 < delinquentme> i went for the preachy bc i didnt wrap it up in a better mindhack
22:14 < delinquentme> ( which i should have )
22:14 <@kanzure> Zach342342343294: yes we have some comp neurosci people in here
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22:15 < delinquentme> kanzure, how many ways are there for females to look younger
22:15 < delinquentme> that shits there already
22:15 <@kanzure> photoshop.jpg
22:15 < delinquentme> lolol
22:15 <@kanzure> oh you mean
22:15 <@kanzure> right.
22:17 < Zach342342343294> are there any open source comp neurosci projects that would help with the whole living forever thing?
22:17 < yashgaroth> if you think mind uploading is viable
22:18 < Zach342342343294> i was thinking partial replacement
22:18 < Zach342342343294> like first hippocampus then move on and on
22:18 < Zach342342343294> all at once destructive scanning is a bit frightening
22:19 <@kanzure> there's some tools for neuron reconstruction from microtome images
22:19 < yashgaroth> may I also recommend brain-computer interfacing
22:19 < delinquentme> Zach342342343294, if we can stave off alzheimers
22:19 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/implants/
22:20 < delinquentme> would an OK solution be brain-in-vessle?
22:20 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/
22:20 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/brain-emulation-roadmap-report.pdf
22:20 < Zach342342343294> kanzure, i can't get over the whole copies thought experiment
22:20 < Zach342342343294> i am afraid it would just be a copy if it was done destructivly
22:20 < yashgaroth> head-in-vessel is theoretically possible today, delinq
22:20 <@kanzure> the what
22:20 <@kanzure> is this some bullshit about identity/consciousness
22:21 < yashgaroth> but what if there's two of me in the computer
22:21 < delinquentme> yashgaroth, so not a bad workaround :D
22:21 <@kanzure> oh geeze. i'm too tired to convince you against the existence of consciousness/identity
22:21  * kanzure sleeps
22:21 < delinquentme> ^^^ lacks consciousness
22:21 < delinquentme> :=]
22:21 < yashgaroth> ho ho
22:21 <@kanzure> it's just some folk psychology term
22:21 <@kanzure> nobody has been able to prove its existence in the brain
22:21 < Zach342342343294> but what if i was copied now?
22:21 <@kanzure> it's worthless.
22:22 < Zach342342343294> and my copy woke up
22:22 <@kanzure> copy of what, your connectome?
22:22 < Zach342342343294> and me and my copy were looking at eachother
22:22 < Zach342342343294> then they killed my copy
22:22 < Zach342342343294> yea
22:22 < Zach342342343294> atom for atom
22:22 < Zach342342343294> we would start diverging of course
22:22 <@kanzure> ok your connectome is more of a graph, not about atoms
22:23 <@kanzure> why does this thought experiment matter
22:23 < delinquentme> Zach342342343294, you're simply interested in persisting your consciousness right?
22:23 < delinquentme> bc i agree the shit out of this.
22:23 < Zach342342343294> yes
22:24 <@kanzure> what? consciousness is what now
22:24 < Zach342342343294> i want the thread that is me to go on forever
22:24 <@kanzure> come on, no philosophy in here. please be specific.
22:25 < yashgaroth> the intersection of philosophy and science that inevitably happens with this discussion is why I don't get too involved
22:25 < Zach342342343294> whatever is happening in my brain, i want that to last forever
22:25 <@kanzure> Zach342342343294: :)
22:25 < Zach342342343294> and wouldn't partial brain replacement be easier than mind uploading?
22:25 < Zach342342343294> destructivly
22:25 <@kanzure> it depends, are you going to imagine nanotech replacing your brain
22:25 <@kanzure> or physical surgery
22:26 <@kanzure> in which case, how do you get to surgically inoperable regions of the brain
22:26 < Zach342342343294> i was thinking physical surgery, because i don't think nanotech will be close to where it needs to be
22:26 <@kanzure> you can use optical/magnetic/acoustic methods to manipulate regions deep in the brain, but you can't easily move things into that region without disrupting nearby matter
22:26 < delinquentme> kanzure, hes just wanting to remain behind his eyes
22:26 < delinquentme> HE
22:26 < delinquentme> " HE "
22:26 < delinquentme> while possibly vague I think you understand
22:26 <@kanzure> what?
22:26 <@kanzure> delinquentme: you're not helping :P
22:26 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: you're wiser than the rest of us
22:27 <@kanzure> nope
22:27 <@kanzure> i think you're just wasting our time
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22:27 < delinquentme> uniqanomaly, whats upman!
22:27 < delinquentme> finally got unbanned from #ai
22:27 < delinquentme> took 2 days of petitioning
22:28 < Zach342342343294> well tbh the philosophy doesn't really matter
22:29 < Zach342342343294> its more the practicality
22:29 < delinquentme> engines of creation audiobook megaupload, =[
22:29 < yashgaroth> if you want practicality, ignore mind uploading for the next 50-100 years
22:29 < Zach342342343294> in favor of?
22:29 < Zach342342343294> SENS?
22:29 <@kanzure> neural circuit reconstruction already works, what's wrong with it
22:29 < yashgaroth> brain-computer interfacing, or yes living long enough for nano to become good enough
22:30 < Zach342342343294> invasive brain computer interfacing?
22:30 < yashgaroth> best kind
22:31 < Zach342342343294> is anyone doing that type of stuff?
22:31 < yashgaroth> sure, there's that monkey with the robot arm and shit
22:31 <@kanzure> there are many invasive brain-computer interface projects
22:31 < Zach342342343294> most of the bci i see are crappy eeg type stuff
22:31 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/implants/
22:31 < Zach342342343294> i thought the monkeys used periphial nerves
22:31 <@kanzure> ignore eeg-anything. it's worthless.
22:32 < yashgaroth> nope, straight into the motor cortex afaik
22:32 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: have you seen the "light-controlled gene expression in mouse motor cortex"
22:32 < uniqanomaly> delinquentme: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120126/12313917555/polish-politicians-don-guy-fawkesanonymous-masks-to-protest-acta-signing.shtml ;]
22:32 < Zach342342343294> kanzure, thanks for the papers
22:33 < yashgaroth> yeah optogenetics is interesting, but you won't get interfacing with it
22:33 < uniqanomaly> delinquentme: funny, I started doing project euler stuff 2 days ago
22:33 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: should be something on http://anselmlevskaya.com/ about it..
22:33 <@kanzure> "Spatiotemporal control of cell signalling using a light-switchable protein interaction"
22:33 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: sure.
22:33 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: i have no delusions about that
22:33 < Zach342342343294> doesn't optogenetics need genetically engineered subjects?
22:33 < delinquentme> ha thats awesome
22:34 < delinquentme> uniqanomaly, i've done 3
22:34 < Zach342342343294> is it possible to use viruses to do it?
22:34 <@kanzure> Zach342342343294: yes
22:34 < uniqanomaly> delinquentme like 3 problems?
22:34 < delinquentme> ya
22:34 < uniqanomaly> hah ok
22:34 < yashgaroth> and yes to viruses, especially with neurons it's the safest way
22:34 < uniqanomaly> i did first 14 in a row
22:34 < uniqanomaly> xD
22:34 < delinquentme> nice!
22:34 < uniqanomaly> nah
22:34 < delinquentme> its kind of addictive
22:34 < uniqanomaly> I hope so
22:34 < uniqanomaly> ;]
22:35 < uniqanomaly> that kind of stuff is best for learning
22:36 < uniqanomaly> hmm
22:36 < delinquentme> ^^^^
22:37 < uniqanomaly> project euler like site with categories, anyone can add new challenges that would be cool
22:37 < Zach342342343294> kanzure: are all invasive bci's based on electrodes? or is there another way to cross the machine-brain barrier?
22:37 < uniqanomaly> I see it's just math directed
22:37 <@kanzure> light, sound, magnetism, electrical stimulation, ..
22:38  * kanzure sleeps for real
22:39 < yashgaroth> all the current and invasive ones are electrode though, afaik
22:39 < yashgaroth> though in the future you could monitor peripheral nerves instead of the motor cortex
22:39 < yashgaroth> see: subvocal communication by monitoring vocal nerves
22:40 < Zach342342343294> could peripheral nerves be used for anything except motor control?
22:41 < uniqanomaly> anyone working on EEG electrode arrays like 256x256 electrodes?
22:42 < Zach342342343294> i thought it was more like 64, 128 max
22:42 < yashgaroth> if you're really good with a chorded keyboard you could do data entry, but the incoming signals would need to be based on touch perception
22:43 < Zach342342343294> so would the idea be to be a brain in a vat until mind uploading or nanotech happens?
22:43 < uniqanomaly> anyone seen moore's law like graph for eeg electrodes? :P
22:44 < Zach342342343294> i'm not seeing how doing stuff like data entry and controlling an artifical arm helps perserve my mind
22:44 < yashgaroth> *head* in a vat, unless you like existential hell with no senses
22:44 < Stee|> brain in a vat
22:44 < Stee|> you simulate senses
22:44 < delinquentme> ahhh what are these notations referred to as A1 = [0, 1), A2 = [1, 2), A3 = [2, 3),  .. where the square brackets and parenthesis infer something about the set
22:44 < Stee|> Zach342342343294: Because it involves interfacing to nerves, etc.
22:44 < delinquentme> Stee|, its called "world of warcraft"
22:44 < Stee|> WoW sucks :P
22:44 < yashgaroth> I guess, but unless you get head cancer it's probably a lot easier to keep it
22:45 < Zach342342343294> well the whole moving over to a vat would already be a last ditch effort
22:45 < Zach342342343294> i would imagine
22:45 < Stee|> I prefer brain in a jar
22:45 < Stee|> although I'm more a 'build an artificial brain around my organic one'
22:46 < Zach342342343294> stee| that would work too
22:46 < yashgaroth> I prefer "slowly replace my brain with an artificial nervous system", but same diff
22:46 < Zach342342343294> is anything happening with that?
22:46 < Zach342342343294> i've read about ted berger's artificial hippocampus
22:47 < Zach342342343294> but thats the only remotely replace-part-of-the-brain thing i've seen
22:47 < Stee|> yeah
22:47 < Stee|> I'm not fond of uploading
22:47 < rkos> would it make any difference whether you replaced the brain all at once or just piece by piece?
22:47 < Zach342342343294> i hope its not because of philosophy, kanzure and yashgaroth wouldn't like that
22:48 < Stee|> I don't particularly give a shit :P
22:48 < yashgaroth> with unlimited technology, it wouldn't matter either way
22:48 < Stee|> I view 'continuity' of consciousness as the thing that defines me.
22:48 < Zach342342343294> rkos, apparently identity is an illusion so it doens't matter
22:48 < Stee|> So I'm going to theseus ship my brain.
22:48 < Stee|> Everything's a fucking illusion, identity is one I choose to pick.
22:49 < Zach342342343294> so is the best way to help this happen still become a professor?
22:49 < Zach342342343294> or get rich and donate?
22:49 < Stee|> I like the second one
22:49 < Stee|> kanzure prefers DIYers
22:49 < rkos> but theres no you so you can't choose! its just what some sort of random calculation ends up choosing
22:49 < rkos> though i guess you could call all that randomness you
22:49 < Stee|> rkos: Illusion of choice.
22:49 < Stee|> Zach342342343294: Go with what you're good at.
22:49 < Stee|> Become world class at it.
22:50 < Zach342342343294> yashgaroth: i am worried about surviving till there is unlimited technology
22:50 < yashgaroth> that's why we're here
22:50 < Stee|> we're all here for different reasons, really
22:51 < Zach342342343294> well i am here because i am very selfish and fear death
22:51 < yashgaroth> honestly I don't expect to live forever, but I hope to at least create the generation that does
22:51 < rkos> why are you worried Zach342342343294, is there some extremely important information hidden in your body that humanity needs to secure in the future?
22:51 < Stee|> rkos: Honestly, I'm a nihilist.
22:52 < Zach342342343294> yashgaroth: you are a great person then, much better than me
22:52 < Stee|> So I'm pretty concerned for myself first and foremost.
22:52 < Stee|> well, not nihilist
22:52 < Stee|> more a perspectivist
22:52 < Zach342342343294> i am narcissistic
22:52 < rkos> yeah but where do you put the boundaries of yourself
22:52 < Zach342342343294> my brain/mind/body
22:53 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:53 < Stee|> rkos: Where the pattern that calls itself myself considers them to be most useful
22:53 < Zach342342343294> unfortunatly i have not yet dropped acid so I haven't realized that we are all one
22:53 < yashgaroth> oh dear we're back to philosophy again
22:53 < Stee|> for instance, I consider my computer an extension of myself that I don't have a direct neural connection to it
22:53 < Stee|> Philosophy is important for laws.
22:53 < Zach342342343294> you started it yashgaroth
22:54 < yashgaroth> damnit
22:54 < Zach342342343294> but to get away from it...is there a generally agreed upon best plan of action to live until the singularity?
22:54 < rkos> well why would you not consider other people an extension of yourself?
22:54 < Stee|> Zach: Well, some of us don't believe in the singularity
22:54 < Zach342342343294> i know take fish oil
22:55 < Stee|> I'm more a transhumanist as opposed to the singularitarian
22:55 < rkos> though i agree that philosophy only ever leads to thinking in circles, its a fun past time but not really useful
22:55 < Stee|> rather, I believe that man will incorporate machine before we have machines in the likeness of man.
22:55 < yashgaroth> you've got benevolent AI, nanorobots, uploading, genetic modification, pick one or more
22:55 < Zach342342343294> stee|: i know, so then live until mind uploading comes
22:55 < Stee|> or brain replacement, my preferred one :P
22:55 < Stee|> anyway
22:55 < Stee|> be in shape
22:56 < Stee|> take antioxidants
22:56 < Stee|> are you a student right now?
22:56 < Zach342342343294> yes
22:56 < Zach342342343294> a shitty one tho
22:56 < Stee|> college?
22:56 < Zach342342343294> so don't say get a job in finance or be a professor
22:56 < Zach342342343294> yea
22:57 < Stee|> what's your major?
22:57 < Zach342342343294> biomedical engineering
22:57 < uniqanomaly> Zach342342343294: get rich and fund all unethical research that will get us there faster in some bunker in Africa
22:57 < Zach342342343294> i wish i could uniqanomaly
22:57 < Stee|> Zach: What year?
22:57 < Zach342342343294> its the get rich part that is throwing me
22:58 < Zach342342343294> junior, but i am taking 5 years to graduate
22:58 < yashgaroth> okay just befriend rich people then
22:58 < Stee|> that one works
22:58 < Stee|> I'm working on that one AND the get rich one
22:58 < Stee|> Zach: Read a lot, go into prosthetics
22:59 < Zach342342343294> yashgaroth: good point
22:59 < rkos> whore out to venture capitalists
22:59 < Zach342342343294> i wonder if i can pull a lex luthor and marry a rich old lady?
22:59 < Stee|> (I'm trying to get into VC)
23:00 < uniqanomaly> Zach342342343294: tourist ships for rich fucks with thousands of different pharma grade drugs  and medical supervision
23:00 < rkos> get capital or get into investing?
23:00 < Zach342342343294> good luck stee|
23:00 < Stee|> rkos: Get into investing.
23:00 < Zach342342343294> i have actually thought about that uniqanomaly
23:00 < Zach342342343294> but it needs a lot of startup capital
23:00 < uniqanomaly> Zach342342343294: theres no law at international waters;)
23:00 < uniqanomaly> yea
23:01 < Zach342342343294> actually i was thinking an insurance plan where all major surgeries are done somewhere in africa
23:01 < Zach342342343294> or on a boat
23:01 < rkos> good luck, i hope ill someday be able to do so too
23:01 < Zach342342343294> would be good too
23:01 < yashgaroth> man just go to china, they give no fucks and actually have money
23:01 < Stee|> basically, I have a physics degree and an engineering degree
23:01 < Zach342342343294> or china
23:01 < Stee|> but my real love is business
23:01 < Zach342342343294> because us medical costs are huge
23:01 < uniqanomaly> nah, in china you get shot in the head for drugs
23:01 < Zach342342343294> *USA's
23:01 < yashgaroth> haha they're corrupt enough to not care about that either
23:02 < Zach342342343294> have you all seen http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/xinjiang-procedure_610145.html?
23:02 < Zach342342343294> tldr: china kills people for organs
23:02 < uniqanomaly> yashgaroth: I've read they terminate ppl for coruption
23:03 < uniqanomaly> funny how that creates evolutionary pressure for better corruption :D
23:03 < yashgaroth> token people, sure, but it's an extremely corrupt bureaucracy
23:03 < uniqanomaly> like drug war in mexico
23:03 < uniqanomaly> all they get is better organised criminals
23:03 < yashgaroth> the drug war selects for psychopaths
23:03 < rkos> i've always respected the chinese for their no nonsense approach to biotechnology though
23:04 < rkos> nothing like what its here in europe
23:04 < uniqanomaly> rkos: yeah
23:04 < Zach342342343294> rkos: i've heard a lot of chinese science is really shitty. do you have any examples of chinese biotech stuff that is working well?
23:04 < Zach342342343294> i have heard of people going to china for stem cell therapy
23:05 < yashgaroth> billions of dollars + populace to experiment on, something's bound to happen
23:05 < uniqanomaly> rkos: I like that they rutinely use herbs for stuff like flu
23:05 < yashgaroth> anyway, if the science is 10x shittier than the U.S.'s, it still costs 20x less
23:06 < rkos> cant think of any examples
23:06 < Zach342342343294> good point yahgaroth
23:07 < rkos> cant say i ever hear much about china except from second or third hand accounts, they dont seem to be all that interested in any other kind of publicity but promoting their ancient history
23:07 < Zach342342343294> true rkos
23:08 < Zach342342343294> what about russia?
23:08 < yashgaroth> they don't need indigenous research anyway, plenty of western companies are just moving there
23:08 < Zach342342343294> i have always imagined they have a lot of crazy biotech researchers from the cold war
23:08 < Zach342342343294> like the dog head experiments and stuff
23:09 < uniqanomaly> yeah dog head exps were awesome
23:09 < yashgaroth> USSR never really got too far into genetics, because genetics supposedly contradicts glorious communist principles
23:09 < Zach342342343294> that probably held them up then
23:09 < Zach342342343294> bummer
23:10 < rkos> i dont know about russia but india ought to be some kind of mecca for patients for research
23:10 < rkos> not ought, is according to one book at least
23:11 < Zach342342343294> i can't help but think there is some clandestine lab somewhere doing crazy biotech shit on poor people
23:11 < yashgaroth> it totally is the mecca, same with thailand
23:11 < Zach342342343294> for clinical trials yashgaroth/rkos?
23:11 < Zach342342343294> or the basic research itself
23:11 < rkos> clinical trials
23:12 < yashgaroth> and all that semi-approved stem cell stuff
23:12 < yashgaroth> 1st world countries don't usually accept clinical trials from elsewhere
23:13 < Zach342342343294> yashgaroth: i was thinking they would run a cheap one there to know if they shoudl invest in first world ones
23:13 < yashgaroth> oh, unofficially, sure
23:13 < rkos> http://books.google.fi/books?hl=fi&id=5tGzaUXMJ-AC&q=wellspring#v=snippet&q=wellspring&f=false should be on page 95
23:14 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
23:14 < Zach342342343294> interesting rkos
23:14 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:15 < yashgaroth> considering a full approval can cost a half billion dollars, it makes perfect sense
23:16 < Zach342342343294> i wonder if they ever try any really out there things like genetic therapy and stuff
23:17 < yashgaroth> if there's only one clandestine lab doing 'crazy biotech shit on poor people', it's in china
23:18 < yashgaroth> and genetic therapy isn't too 'out there' these days\
23:18 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
23:18 < Zach342342343294> didn't it kill some kid in the us?
23:19 < yashgaroth> yes, but that was due to the vector
23:19 < yashgaroth> that death set back a very promising field 10 years
23:19 < Zach342342343294> have there been trials since then?
23:19 < yashgaroth> plenty
23:19 < Zach342342343294> in the first world?
23:20 < yashgaroth> not so many, but they're coming back
23:20 < yashgaroth> lemme find that hemophilia one real quick
23:20 < Zach342342343294> it cool i am actually looking at a few on wikipedia
23:20 < Zach342342343294> one for blindness a couple in dogs
23:21 < yashgaroth> but the main difference from when that kid died was that the viral vectors, if they use them at all, don't just shit all over the genome and activate oncogenes
23:22 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
23:22 < yashgaroth> this is my unofficial field of expertise btw if you have any specific questions
23:23 -!- Technicus [~Technicus@DSLPool-net208-2.wctc.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:24 < Zach342342343294> cool yashgaroth i will take your word for it that its not as dead as it seemed
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23:25 < Zach342342343294> so is singularitism pretty separate from transhumanism?
23:25 < yashgaroth> depends who you ask, I'd call singularitarians a sub-branch of H+ers
23:27 < Zach342342343294> so is hplus the main transhumanism group?
23:27 < Zach342342343294> or is there a bigger one?
23:28 < Zach342342343294> it all seems kind of small to be honest
23:28 < Zach342342343294> and the techinical challenges so large
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23:29 -!- ygh [~yashgarot@cpe-24-94-5-223.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:30 < ygh> not sure what happened there
23:30 -!- kvltist [~Kvltist@p5B33ED85.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:30 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@cpe-24-94-5-223.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
23:30 -!- ygh is now known as yashgaroth
23:31 < yashgaroth> but yes, we have limited resources and great challenges ahead of us etc. etc.
23:31 < Zach342342343294> bummer
23:32 < yashgaroth> well, the science gets done and more people get turned on to futurism...that's why my main priority is life extension
23:32 < yashgaroth> science is slow and people are dumb, so hedge your bets and live til it happens
23:33 < yashgaroth> I am somewhat surprised more rich people aren't getting into it though, unless there's some secret funding cabal on a floating island
23:33 < Zach342342343294> i saw an article several years ago about how a bunch of hedge fund managers were funding it
23:34 < Zach342342343294> but i think it was mostly peter thiel
23:34 < yashgaroth> yeah all the ex-paypal guys are the main ones right now
23:34 < yashgaroth> him and elon musk and the other one
23:35 < uniqanomaly> http://www.neatorama.com/2011/09/04/young-blood-can-rejuvenate-old-brain/ that one
23:35 < uniqanomaly> I guess there is something in vampire stories
23:35 < uniqanomaly> It's all about hormone levels in blood isn't it?
23:35 < uniqanomaly> and stuffs
23:36 < yashgaroth> mostly yes
23:36 < Zach342342343294> is there a mouse model for alzhiemers?
23:36 < yashgaroth> there's a few crappy ones
23:37 < Zach342342343294> bummer again
23:38 < yashgaroth> but alzheimer's, it's like, I've got a good 50 years before I need to worry about that
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23:38 < yashgaroth> old people can go eat a dick
23:38 < Zach342342343294> well it seems the main thing that would destroy your brain
23:39 < uniqanomaly> someone gotta write paper like 'blood from how many children is enough to live forever'
23:40 < uniqanomaly> http://www.mprize.org/
23:40 < uniqanomaly> The Mprize, introduced in 2003, is designed to directly accelerate the development of revolutionary new life extension therapies. The prize pot continues to grow through donations; awards are made whenever a research team extends the life of mice. There are two categories of cash prizes:
23:40 < uniqanomaly>     * Longevity - to the research team that breaks the world record for the oldest-ever mouse
23:40 < uniqanomaly>     * Rejuvenation - to the team that develops the most successful late-onset rejuvenation that extends the life of the mice
23:41 < uniqanomaly> way to get some $ if young blood is the way
23:42 < Zach342342343294> i don't think brain problems is a leading cause of death for mice
23:42 < yashgaroth> we've discovered a way to repel cats, money please
23:42 < uniqanomaly> I mean life extension
23:42 < uniqanomaly> young blood tranfusions as life extension
23:43 < Zach342342343294> it seems a big leap from 'young blood helps mice brains' to 'young blood helps mice'
23:44 < yashgaroth> isolating exactly what parts of blood cause it would be a worthwhile experiment
23:44 < Zach342342343294> and easy
23:44 < yashgaroth> I mean, I love juicing babies as much as the next guy, but
23:44 < yashgaroth> not easy if it's a combination of stuff, but certainly feasible
23:45 < uniqanomaly> at some point you just sell transfusion sets with artificial blood to put on at night
23:45 < uniqanomaly> tens of billions to be made
23:46 < yashgaroth> problem is, both government and industry funding is entirely focused on disease-based research, rather than general life extension
23:46 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
23:46 < uniqanomaly> yeah, all the stuff from blood would be probably classified as drugs
23:47 < uniqanomaly> "death is not a disease" and such other bullshit
23:47 < yashgaroth> it is also a good way of funneling money from old people to young people, which I like
23:47 < Zach342342343294> yashgaroth have you read 2030 by albert brooks?
23:47 < Zach342342343294> it has a lot of young-on-old-violence
23:48 < uniqanomaly> more like good way of pouring money from old to young lmao
23:48 < yashgaroth> haven't read it, looks interesting
23:48 < yashgaroth> looks like it's more about young people angry about life extension though
23:48 < yashgaroth> I just want their money now so I can do research
23:49 < yashgaroth> then they die and I get to be the elderly immortal they rebel against
23:50 < Stee|> yashgaroth, where are you looking?
23:51 < yashgaroth> for research? funding myself to do gene therapy, maybe germline genetic engineering after that
23:51 < Stee|> no, I mean, people against it
23:51 < Zach342342343294> like diybio?
23:52 < Stee|> Zach342342343294, this channel partially spawned diybio, afaik
23:52 < yashgaroth> I'm looking at the summary for this 2030 book
23:52 < Stee|> ah
23:52 < Stee|> yashgaroth, what's your academic background? self trained/degree/professional?
23:52 < Zach342342343294> its kind of fun but awfully written
23:53 < yashgaroth> classically trained in cell&molecular bio, professional experience in protein biochem
23:53 < yashgaroth> and by that I mean bachelors, maybe phd if I feel like it
23:53 < Stee|> ah
23:53 < Stee|> I'm working on nanoprinting
23:54 < yashgaroth> microfluidics, lab on a chip stuff?
23:54 < Stee|> no
23:54 < Stee|> like literally jet printing for 3d
23:54 < Stee|> on a nanoscale
23:55 < yashgaroth> what sorts of applications are you looking at?
23:55 < Stee|> Eh, a lot of ceramic/pzt/bio/metallic stuff
23:55 < Stee|> also fast turnaround prototyping of radio shit
23:56 < Stee|> I'm done in a couple months
23:56 < Stee|> turning in a preliminary comprehensive model
23:56 < Stee|> and going off to make dolla as an engineer with an MS
23:56 < yashgaroth> excellent
23:57 < Stee|> I also have a secondary income line coming in
23:57 < Stee|> hopefully
23:57 < Stee|> I'm going to try to set up an Angel investment circle of engineers
23:57 < Stee|> so instead of 5 dudes with 10 million each, 50+ dudes throwing their money into a pool
23:57 < Stee|> and recruit people who worked on the techs to figure out what to invest in
23:58 < Stee|> I'm a nerd who sees Tran$humani$m :P
23:58 < Zach342342343294> don't angel investors have to be accredited?
23:58 < Stee|> Meh, I'll get that if need be.
23:58 < yashgaroth> hell no they don't
23:59 < yashgaroth> there is a lot of money to be made in H+ stuff for sure, though it's a lot more palatable to get funding for non-biological stuff
23:59 < Stee|> And then I want to start the first transhuman issue focused consulting firm.
23:59 < Stee|> dealing with things like OSHA/discrimination lawsuits based on augmentations, etc.
--- Log closed Sat Jan 28 00:00:05 2012