--- Log opened Thu Feb 02 00:00:43 2012
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04:49 < rkos> looks like MIT published the cure for the common cold a year ago already http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0022572
05:00 < rkos> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b017chql
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07:04 < kanzure> hi gang
07:23 < kanzure> hrm i wonder if i could "sell" anti-scraping software to elsevier
07:24 < kanzure> wait i meant: sell "anti"-scraping
07:26 < utopiah_> wouldnt that be evil?
07:26 < kanzure> yes, but i'd have access
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07:31 < superkuh> ಠ_ಠ
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08:02 < kanzure> hi mattypants_
08:03 < mattypants_> heya!
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10:28 < delinquentme> ZOMG
10:28 < delinquentme> CAFFEINE
10:28 < delinquentme> IM ALIVE... AGAIN!
10:42 < archels> heck yeah caffeine
10:42 < archels> cornucopia of cognition
11:12 -!- falmot [~root@69-196-130-213.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:12 < falmot> hello
11:12 < falmot> singularity is on
11:13 < falmot> reality is being overhauled into language
11:13 < falmot> here's something you can try to prove it without drugs
11:13 < falmot> pick a recording,
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11:13 < falmot> then pick a second recording
11:13 < falmot> hear them both at the same time
11:13 < falmot> it will tell you about a nascent alien invasion
11:13 < falmot> which is almost complete now
11:14 < falmot> http://www.matrixmasters.net/blogs/ like from here, just skip the host at the start
11:14 < falmot> if you use two terence mckenna talks it's really fun and cool but to make a good proof you might want to use something drier
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11:16 < falmot> it is using linguistic synchronicities like crop circles now
11:22 < delinquentme> "cornucopia of cognition"
11:22 < delinquentme> LOL
11:25 < uniqanomaly> falmot seriously, what a junkie have to do with singularity
11:27 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ
11:27 -!- falmot was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [falmot]
11:28 <@kanzure> sigh
11:28 <@kanzure> uniqanomaly: falmot's the neighborhood homeless schizophrenic that has a chip implanted in his brain by aliens, etc. etc..
11:29 <@kanzure> although i really like his howto for proving it
11:29 <@kanzure> "pick a recording, then pick a second recording"
11:29 <@kanzure> < falmot> hear them both at the same time
11:30 <@kanzure> < falmot> it will tell you about a nascent alien invasion
11:30 <@kanzure> < falmot> which is almost complete now
11:30 < uniqanomaly> kanzure: I just wanted him to enlighten me haha
11:30 < delinquentme> lol
11:30 < delinquentme> thats something
11:35 < archels> Curiously, someone in ##neuroscience by the name of 'kalimojo' was on about much the same lately, being 'seeded' with chip implants in Nepal, of all places.
11:35 < archels> He admitted to being treated for schizophrenia, unsurprisingly.
11:36 < archels> Maybe if we bring him into contact with flamoot they will both leave us alone?
11:38 < uniqanomaly> archels: or they'll create a church
11:38 < uniqanomaly> and there will be spam all over the internets
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11:39 < uniqanomaly> just sayin'
11:40 < jrayhawk> it's neat that he's describing a such a clear-cut symptom of schizophrenia
11:41 < uniqanomaly> but seriously, these guys are first grade research subjects
11:41 < uniqanomaly> lol
11:43 < uniqanomaly> subjects pun unintended
11:43 < uniqanomaly> god I love english
11:43 < uniqanomaly> :D
11:44 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: HOW DO MY FINGERS KNOW WHAT I WANT TO TYPE? OH MY GOD
11:45 < jrayhawk> tiny finger-brains
11:46 < jrayhawk> i would say something about transfingerism, but that just sounds filthy
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11:47 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: transplanting fingers?
11:47 <@kanzure> you can make a joke about transfigurism which is the mormon sect of transhumanism
11:48 < jrayhawk> huh
11:49 < jrayhawk> I guess that makes sense
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11:52 < eudoxia> lol so you weren't joking when you said he was a hobo schizo who thought Ben Goertzel was an alien?
11:52 < eudoxia> take your meds, Durham
11:54 < delinquentme> http://www.nature.com/news/questions-hang-over-red-wine-chemical-1.9970
11:54 <@kanzure> hrmm, i don't think he thinks goertzel is an ailen
11:54 <@kanzure> *alien
11:54 < delinquentme> stuff aboot sirtuins
11:56 < eudoxia> I'm pretty sure there was something about Ben though
11:57 <@kanzure> eudoxia: http://groups.google.com/group/singularity-alien
11:57 <@kanzure> oops
11:57 <@kanzure> eudoxia: http://groups.google.com/group/singularity-aliens
11:57 < eudoxia> >flamoot: if it's a four dimensional voxel landscape it's probably more
11:57 < eudoxia> than four, to contain multiple possible worlds
11:57 < eudoxia> hahaha what the fuck
11:58 < eudoxia> >Scientology said they'd kill me on Halloween for a month or two but a
11:58 < eudoxia> guy from the protest group of theirs died on that day instead
12:19 < delinquentme> r/anime on Serial Experiments Lain:
12:19 < delinquentme> "Lain is slow, and didn't really have the greatest production values, but few others have the same amount of brain hurt"
12:22 < rkos> lain was nice from what little i remember
12:22 < rkos> but probably need to rewatch it to better get it
12:23 < rkos> however i often wonder how blended into the network we've become
12:23 < delinquentme> rkos, one can argue that the entirety of the knowledge on the internet is ours when we need it :
12:24 < delinquentme> :D
12:25 < rkos> well that depends on how good you are at hunting for information in the internet, i don't think it comes that easily for everyone
12:25 < rkos> and the internet is big, you never know how much there is that you can't imagine to look for even
12:26 < delinquentme> true true
12:26 < delinquentme> Mastering use of search engines in a huge thing
12:26 < eudoxia> and whether or not the information consists of several partly-archived files in archive.org half of which are corrupt
12:26 < delinquentme> and then knowing what is searchable
12:26 < delinquentme> and of course blekko
12:32 < rkos> didn't lain have some kind of theme about the information network becoming some sort of god persona?
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12:33 < rkos> you see that sentient AI controlling all machines everywhere in fiction these days though
12:37 < rkos> a friend of mine once joked that internet is like the prequel to life that was created afterwards to better explain the original, though i guess this doesn't apply to everyone but i pretty much grew up in the internet and i think in the future it will be more common for people to get acquainted with the world first through the internet
12:37 < rkos> the real world is a very surreal place with none of the predictability of computers
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12:39 < rkos> this eu project is somewhat related http://www.futurict.eu/ in some way
12:48 < rkos> http://www.ga-project.eu/ http://www.robotcompanions.eu/ these two are pretty relevant for transhumanist interests too
12:48 < rkos> although they're all competing for the same funding
12:49 < eudoxia> god why do they even give them human faces
12:50 < eudoxia> every time I see that baby-face robot I think I'm going to die in seven days
13:07 < delinquentme> ^^^^
13:08 < archels> hello uncanny valley
13:13 < uniqanomaly> http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hpu8TuRZEBjM30sFn8c7QvMWNjXA?docId=CNG.108b2dd2393721c4759b1eec0730b297.171
13:13 < uniqanomaly> "French court rules that it's illegally anticompetitive for Google to provide free maps :
13:13 < uniqanomaly> omfg
13:13 < uniqanomaly> wrong #
13:16 < uniqanomaly> but this is hilarious "Online privacy labelled as suspicious and potentially terrorist activity by FBI and Dep. of Justice. "
13:20 < Mokbortolan_> I wonder if they'll rule next on mapquest
13:20 <@kanzure> what why? i like muppetquest
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13:44 < archels> er, whoops
13:45  * archels forgot about the eggs he started boiling almost 3 hours ago
13:49 < mattypants_> I did that once
13:49 < mattypants_> other kids ate them though
13:49 < mattypants_> #collegesolutions
13:51 <@kanzure> mattypants_: do you know nate
13:51 < mattypants_> no
13:51 < mattypants_> nate who
13:51 <@kanzure> he's also at rit
13:51 <@kanzure> mccorkle
13:51 <@kanzure> nmz7whatever in here
13:51 < mattypants_> for a second i was like
13:51 < mattypants_> omfg how the fuck do you know i'm at RIT
13:51 < mattypants_> and then i realized
13:52 <@kanzure> so what brings you here?
13:52 < delinquentme> who was the dude who downloaded shit tons of some universities locked away papers?
13:52 < delinquentme> was part of reddit in the early years?
13:52 <@kanzure> aaron swartz
13:53 <@kanzure> he used to post to diybio
13:53 <@kanzure> and run the 'getarticles' googlegroup until i assume his attorneys advised him against it
13:55 < mattypants_> i saw links to here on reddit
13:55 < mattypants_> and i was like
13:55 < mattypants_> might as well
13:55 < mattypants_> maybe i'll learn some things and not fail out
13:57 <@kanzure> unlikely,
13:57 <@kanzure> i advise everyone to fail out
13:57 < mattypants_> why
13:57 < Stee|> people are always confusing my school with RIT
13:57 < mattypants_> what school?
13:57 < Stee|> rpi
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13:58 < mattypants_> my brother almost went there
13:58 < mattypants_> how's the weather in albany?
13:59 < Stee|> shit
14:01 <@kanzure> mattypants_: what are you studying?
14:02 < mattypants_> bioinformatics
14:02 <@kanzure> undergrad?
14:02 < mattypants_> yea, first year
14:02 < mattypants_> >Spend all day studying for calc, fail bio
14:02 < mattypants_> spend all day studying for bio, fail calc
14:02 <@kanzure> calculus 1?
14:02 < delinquentme> anz
14:02 < mattypants_> yeah
14:03 < mattypants_> i suck at school
14:03 <@kanzure> lolz we can help you with calculus 1
14:03 <@kanzure> but calculus 4+ makes me grumpy
14:03 < mattypants_> i'm smart but I never learned much for math or bio
14:03 < delinquentme> kanzure, soo how hard would it be to gank all of elsivers data?
14:03 <@kanzure> delinquentme: i've done it before..
14:03 <@kanzure> delinquentme: also, have some code http://github.com/kanzure/pyscholar
14:03 <@kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/pyscholar/blob/master/sciencedirect.py
14:03 < delinquentme> so im reading this article and they're talking about how elsiver is fucking up
14:03 <@kanzure> erm, that's not all of it
14:03 <@kanzure> sciencedirect.py is bigger elsewhere.. hrm
14:04 < delinquentme> basically they've got AMAZING software which parses human prose and converts it into actual chemical reactions
14:04 <@kanzure> that's not too amazing
14:04 <@kanzure> we can do that
14:04 <@kanzure> we have the technology..
14:04 < delinquentme> ... anyways
14:04 < Stee|> hmmmm
14:04 < Stee|> calc 4
14:04 < Stee|> Diff EQ?
14:04 < delinquentme> how would individuals go about getting those papers
14:04 <@kanzure> Stee|: that's usually 3
14:05 < Stee|> I took difeq before multivar
14:05 < Stee|> haha
14:05 < delinquentme> at least setting something up to begin building a repository
14:05 < Stee|> err
14:05 < Stee|> rather
14:05 < Stee|> other way around
14:05 < Stee|> multivar then difeq
14:05 <@kanzure> 4 is like, partial diff eq in complex planes because we like to fuck with you
14:05 < Stee|> oh, that's not that bad (he says without having touched it in years)
14:05 <@kanzure> delinquentme: stealing access, usually
14:05 <@kanzure> i liked multivar :/
14:05 < mattypants_> calculus isn't harrd
14:05 < mattypants_> hard*
14:05 < Stee|> well, actually, control systems is actually entirely based out of that stuff, just in specific fields
14:05 < mattypants_> i just have no background in trig, geometry, algebra
14:06 <@kanzure> mattypants_: wut
14:06 < mattypants_> because i dicked around all during high school
14:06 < Stee|> left half plane of a root locus diagram is real, right half plane is imaginary
14:06 <@kanzure> you went to highschool too?
14:06 <@kanzure> man..
14:06 < Stee|> I got the fuck out of highschool fast, luckily
14:06 <@kanzure> people need to stop doing that (high school)
14:07 < mattypants_> yeah
14:07 <@kanzure> delinquentme: so yeah you have to get access first
14:07 <@kanzure> delinquentme: second step is figuring out an ok algorithm for making it seem random enough
14:07 <@kanzure> sequential acccess is something that a sysadmin can detect if he looks at logs
14:07 < delinquentme> kanzure, what about a chrome plugin
14:07 <@kanzure> or that software can easily detect
14:08 <@kanzure> delinquentme: why would you need that if you had access
14:08 < delinquentme> which whenever someone accessed it ... it would essentially dump all the data to one of our servers
14:08 < delinquentme> well right now
14:08 < delinquentme> they
14:08 <@kanzure> because the university would get very angry at me
14:08 < delinquentme> have legal shit against doing the scraping
14:08 < mattypants_> honestly if there's anything i could have done differently, i would have dropped out of high school and gone to community college
14:08 < delinquentme> which is fine
14:08 < delinquentme> but
14:08 <@kanzure> mattypants_: yep
14:08 < delinquentme> if we could inject our code as an intermediary
14:08 < Stee|> I did HS and CC at the same time
14:09 <@kanzure> delinquentme: what?
14:09 < delinquentme> which chrome or other web browser sounds like a phenomenal spot
14:09 < delinquentme> we wouldn't have to worry about the infringing use
14:09 <@kanzure> delinquentme: you still need to proxy the request through an IP address that has access, like a computer on a university network
14:09 < delinquentme> yea yeah
14:09 <@kanzure> it's not about infringing use, it's about unauthorized access
14:09 < delinquentme> but thats easy
14:09 <@kanzure> yes, it's easy, but the university will *kill* you
14:09 <@kanzure> that's my point..
14:09 < delinquentme> ask any scientist who wants to work on this to download it so we can begin compiling shit
14:09 < delinquentme> and they're in
14:10 < delinquentme> but its *not* unauthorized
14:10 <@kanzure> come up with a solution to the legal problem and i'll have the software to you in 10 hours
14:10 < delinquentme> the researcher is pulling data
14:10 <@kanzure> who is?
14:10 < delinquentme> which they are legally allowed to do
14:10 < delinquentme> whoever has the plugin installed
14:10 <@kanzure> lolz
14:10 <@kanzure> that's hilarious
14:10 <@kanzure> so, you want something like selenium
14:10 < delinquentme> and then siphon off the data
14:10 <@kanzure> where it physically uses the browser
14:10 <@kanzure> to click on the website to download it
14:11 < delinquentme> no
14:11 <@kanzure> that could possibly work
14:11 < delinquentme> because that violates the terms
14:11 < delinquentme> the terms specify they're not allowed to automate the scraping
14:11 < delinquentme> however!
14:11 < delinquentme> if a researcher is simply accessing data
14:11 < delinquentme> and the plugin copies that data
14:11 <@kanzure> so you want a researcher to sit around all day clickign "Download pdf" links?
14:12 < delinquentme> no
14:12 <@kanzure> i'm just trying to understand
14:12 < eudoxia> hahaha
14:12 < delinquentme> only when they legit go to lookup some resource
14:12 < Stee|> ugh
14:12 < delinquentme> does it happen that that resource is added
14:12 <@kanzure> delinquentme: zotero does this, but it doesn't upload the pdf
14:12 < Stee|> it still counts as unauthorized copying
14:12 < Stee|> actually
14:12 <@kanzure> it scrapes the pdf for you, but no uploadie :(
14:12 < Stee|> even if the access is legit
14:12 <@kanzure> it would be a very easy thing to fix
14:13 <@kanzure> Stee|: no no you could call it the 'science cloud' or some shit
14:13 < Stee|> don't think that counts under fair use
14:13 < Stee|> if you teach a course that 'requires' certain papers, however, you can copy them under fair use
14:13 < Stee|> >_>
14:13 <@kanzure> the point is, the university cares about bulk downloading only
14:13 < Stee|> I was talking about legality
14:13 <@kanzure> it does not care that you are sharing a paper with a person
14:15 < delinquentme> pirate bay
14:15 < delinquentme> they maintain all kinds of torrent info
14:15 < delinquentme> meh. it gets into decentralized shit
14:15 <@kanzure> delinquentme: btw, most publishers add a pdf watermark
14:15 <@kanzure> not just the text that says "Downloaded at xyz date" but also this other hidden pdf object element
14:15 <@kanzure> i wrote some code to remove certain forms of this watermark, but i haven't extensively tested it
14:16 <@kanzure> it's a gzipped/encrypted segment of the file
14:16 <@kanzure> you can tell based on the software that was used to serve the pdf file (usually something from Adobe like AdobeElsevierFucker)
14:16 < delinquentme> so is it more effective to go the plugin / download route
14:16 < delinquentme> or just jump their systems and take tons of research
14:17 <@kanzure> jumping is pretty easy
14:17 <@kanzure> delinquentme: see pm
14:17 < delinquentme> sure
14:17 < mattypants_> what's going on and can i help any
14:17 < delinquentme> also I like the idea of pirate bay having it
14:17 < delinquentme> bc they'd have their awesome legal team responses
14:17 < delinquentme> " Fuck you"
14:17 < delinquentme> <3
14:17 < Stee|> ehhhh
14:17 <@kanzure> you still need someone to seed it
14:18 < Stee|> wondering if tpb is going to be extradited
14:18 <@kanzure> delinquentme: so, what about this..
14:18 <@kanzure> delinquentme: call it a 'relayer'
14:18 <@kanzure> a piece of software on the researcher's computer
14:18 < delinquentme> mattypants_, essentially I just found out that there is a wonderful bit of text processing which can be used for automation
14:18 < delinquentme> in really cool ways
14:18 <@kanzure> the researcher has a social network of scientists and friends
14:18 <@kanzure> they send in requests for literature
14:18 <@kanzure> he manually clicks 'approve' and the scraper grabs that paper under his authorization
14:19 <@kanzure> relayer relays it to the requester.
14:19 < mattypants_> so like
14:19 < delinquentme> effectively it would work if we can get any kind of code between the researcher and the repository
14:19 < mattypants_> what is the point of this chat room
14:19 <@kanzure> mattypants_: human enhancement, world domination, biohacking, genetic therapies, nootropics
14:20 <@kanzure> open hardware..
14:20 < eudoxia> human enhancement technologies
14:20 < delinquentme> mattypants_, hence what were talking about here
14:20 < mattypants_> what are nootropics
14:20 < delinquentme> this would effectively "codify" hand written chemical reactions allowing scientists to search ... and even more powerful: automate
14:21 < delinquentme> mattypants_, smartdrugs
14:21 < delinquentme> caffeine
14:21 <@kanzure> mattypants_: caffeine is a very lame example
14:21 <@kanzure> caffeine but 500x
14:21 < delinquentme> adderall
14:21 < mattypants_> speaking of which
14:21 < mattypants_> how the fuck do i get an adderallscript
14:21 < Stee|> I wouldn't do adderall
14:21 <@kanzure> delinquentme: there's already a lot of products for searching chemical reactions, but nothing open source because CAS has proprietarized the data
14:21 < mattypants_> also how do you guys feel about marijuana use?
14:21 <@kanzure> delinquentme: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/Route%20designer%20-%20a%20retrosynthetic%20analysis%20tool%20utilizing%20automated%20retrosynthetic%20rule%20generation.pdf
14:21 < mattypants_> my roommate is a drug policy kid
14:22 <@kanzure> what is drug policy
14:22 <@kanzure> i mean, what is a drug policy kid
14:22 < mattypants_> so we have these discussions
14:22 < mattypants_> essentially sociology concentrating on drugs
14:22 <@kanzure> mattypants_: you get a script by needing it..
14:22 < Stee|> I wouldn't be in the same room as someone doing MJ, but that's for security clearance reasons
14:22 <@kanzure> mattypants_: sounds lame
14:22 < delinquentme> CAS?
14:22 < mattypants_> it's not really a major
14:22 < mattypants_> it's more of a thing he likes to study
14:22 < mattypants_> he's an IT major
14:22 <@kanzure> delinquentme: chemical abstract service.. i think these are the guys collecting organic reaction data
14:22 <@kanzure> delinquentme: read the paper.
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14:25 <@kanzure> you know, it would be interesting to make an 'access map'
14:25 <@kanzure> let's say you get a group of researchers to join this network
14:25 <@kanzure> each node on the network checks which sources it has access to
14:25 <@kanzure> then based on a given social network you can say that MIT has less access than shady university of cambodia
14:26 < delinquentme> oh so there are levels of access to these journals?
14:26 <@kanzure> you could have some tool easily go through a list of doi numbers or read the "subscription explanation" pages on elsevier/all the others
14:26 <@kanzure> yes
14:26 <@kanzure> so, look at how ezproxy config works
14:26 <@kanzure> you can have a login to sciencedirect, but you might not have subscriptions to each journal
14:27 <@kanzure> then there's "university login" which is pre-authenticated by ip address
14:29 <@kanzure> and then there's companies that have subscriptions.. companies read papers too, right?
14:30 <@kanzure> btw if you wanted to be really leet about it you'd find a security vulnerability in ezproxy
14:31 < delinquentme> ez proxy huh
14:32 < delinquentme> ah!
14:32 < delinquentme> verilah nice
14:32 <@kanzure> oh i haven't shown you about ezproxy have i
14:32 <@kanzure> well.. for some reason, all universities purchase this software
14:33 <@kanzure> libraries use it to let students/staff access papers from home
14:33 <@kanzure> it's a simple http proxy
14:33 <@kanzure> people who write viruses/trojans are kind enough to send ezproxy username/passwords around on the web
14:33 <@kanzure> so you can lookup logins on weird arabic and russian forums
14:34 <@kanzure> sometimes libraries notice that many people are accessing an ezproxy login, so they disable it and reset the student's password
14:36 < delinquentme> haha
14:36 < delinquentme> this i like
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14:40 < Stee|> RPI uses cisco systems vpn
14:40 <@kanzure> liar https://libproxy.rpi.edu/login
14:41 < Stee|> oh shit, that's true
14:41 < Stee|> I usually just vpn in
14:41 <@kanzure> oops, you're not lying, but i'm pretty sure you were implying that you don't use some http proxy  (or possibly specifically ezproxy, i can't tell if that's ezproxy)
14:41 <@kanzure> *that rpi doesn't use (not you specifically)
14:42 <@kanzure> try it out, let me know if it redirects you to /home
14:42 < Stee|> you're right, kanz
14:43 <@kanzure> or to /menu
14:44 <@kanzure> oh weird https://login.ezproxy.rit.edu/login
14:48 <@kanzure> delinquentme: http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_449704910100kaa0.html
14:48 <@kanzure> say thank you to china
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14:49 < thesnark> Hey kanzure
14:49 < thesnark> What'd I miss?
14:49 <@kanzure> thesnark: so, here's a silly/retarded idea
14:50 <@kanzure> that delinquentme sorta suggested
14:50 < delinquentme> AHAG
14:50 < delinquentme> so lovely
14:50  * thesnark listens
14:50 < delinquentme> kanzure, ill pitch him
14:50 <@kanzure> no i wanted to tell him the selenium version first haha
14:50 <@kanzure> but go ahead
14:50 < delinquentme> thesnark, basically someone has created this really sweet chemical parsing software
14:50 < delinquentme> human gibberish >> codified chemical processes
14:51 < thesnark> Nice.
14:51 <@kanzure> erm
14:51 < delinquentme> they cant run this bc some journals have software processing clauses .. so we're talking about how to circumvent that
14:51 <@kanzure> how'd you get from that to scraping
14:51 <@kanzure> i mean, to scraping against elsevier
14:51 < delinquentme> ive heard of selenium used for browser testing
14:52 < delinquentme> http://blogs.ch.cam.ac.uk/pmr/2011/11/25/the-scandal-of-publisher-forbidden-textmining-the-vision-denied/
14:52  * thesnark is still listening
14:52 <@kanzure> erm it's largely because the publishers don't want you to access all of their papers
14:52 < delinquentme> he talkes about the elsevier being nubs
14:53 < delinquentme> thesnark, basically we can take a huge step forward in not only automating chemical building
14:53 < delinquentme> but also science in general
14:53 < delinquentme> but we need a good place to host the docs
14:53 <@kanzure> huh?
14:53 <@kanzure> yes, having all papers available would be huge
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14:53 < thesnark> You lost me, you want to scrape papers with chemical software?
14:53 <@kanzure> but that doesn't seem specific to chemical reaction parsing
14:54 < thesnark> Storage is no problem
14:54 <@kanzure> thesnark: so anyway, the reason why nobody is setting up a giant gateway through which the open internet proxies requests to elsevier
14:54 <@kanzure> is because the universities get enraged about it
14:54 <@kanzure> because it is a legal issue, true
14:55 <@kanzure> but there are lots of "file sharing" that goes on at a campus
14:55 <@kanzure> *lots of "illegal things"
14:55 <@kanzure> bulk downloading is frowned upon
14:55 < thesnark> That fits perfectly with what I'm doing, haha
14:55 <@kanzure> so i thought deliquentme was suggesting that instead of automated bulk scraping,
14:55 <@kanzure> researchers "approve" access to someone for a certain paper
14:55 <@kanzure> so you can imagine a few scenarios
14:55 < thesnark> I'm connecting darknet software to scraping/caching
14:56 <@kanzure> a) a small bit of software where the researcher clicks "approve" and the scraper works
14:56 < thesnark> Dude
14:56 <@kanzure> b) a scraper that is always on, but with throttling
14:56 < thesnark> Already doing exactly that
14:56 < thesnark> Haha
14:56 <@kanzure> c) selenium to imitate the researcher physically using a fucking mouse
14:56 <@kanzure> thesnark: yes i know.. you've told me
14:56 <@kanzure> this is why i asked you to come in..
14:56 < Stee|> table of contents written for thesis...
14:56 <@kanzure> BUT OK
14:56 < delinquentme> well you can have it with that scenario or with something like a chrome plugin where they simply download it knowing that its a tool for opening science
14:56 <@kanzure> thesnark: also because i've written this software before too :3
14:57 <@kanzure> just without the uploading aspects really.. just the scrapers
14:57 < thesnark> Right
14:57 <@kanzure> delinquentme: like zotero, but with an upload-to-the-cloud option
14:57 < thesnark> Let me get back to you, I'm doing hw at the moment
14:57 <@kanzure> zotero's javascript scrapers are pretty neat
14:57 <@kanzure> but nobody has them running on a server yet
14:57 <@kanzure> it's in a stupid firefox plugin :x
14:58 < thesnark> Just keep talking and paste it into an email for me
14:58 < delinquentme> well ive built scrapers before
14:58 < delinquentme> thats no problem
14:58 < thesnark> I have to go
14:58 <@kanzure> delinquentme: it's a lot of different scrapers
14:58 <@kanzure> and
14:58 <@kanzure> maintaining scrapers is a pain in the ass
14:58 < delinquentme> ohhh
14:59 <@kanzure> zotero has one for each journal/publisher
14:59 < Stee|> http://www.rpi.edu/dept/grad/docs/Nomination_MS_Comm_Form.pdf getting shit in motion
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15:00 <@kanzure> delinquentme: the advantage of zotero is that they have people maintaining their scrapers
15:00 <@kanzure> so if one breaks, they usually fix it within 12 hours
15:01 <@kanzure> i was thinking that zotero should be hacked to run on a server,
15:01 <@kanzure> and you just send the html to the server to be parsed
15:01 <@kanzure> so that the templates only have to be fixed server-side, not with a plugin update to 30,000 users that will probably not update their plugin
15:01 < delinquentme> hmm i guess I was imagining the parts that would break would be changes in the tags used for selecting
15:01 <@kanzure> sure..
15:01 <@kanzure> that happens
15:01 <@kanzure> but since they have a community already they usually have someone go and fix it out of frustration
15:02 < delinquentme> that sounds like a good thing to use
15:03 <@kanzure> yeh it's marketed as a bibliography tool for keeping bibtex data
15:03 <@kanzure> but the auto-download-pdf thing is fantastic
15:03 <@kanzure> i have some zotero libraries here: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/
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15:04 <@kanzure> which include the bibtex+pdf if someone was to dump it into their zotero dir
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15:12 < delinquentme> kanzure, any guess as to how much file volume we're talking about?
15:12 < Stee|> how many papers are you wanting to grab?
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15:18 <@kanzure> delinquentme: max 4 MB per paper, usually
15:18 <@kanzure> scanned pdfs are obv. bigger
15:18 <@kanzure> non-scanned tend to be 1 MB or less, depending on how many photos
15:19 <@kanzure> i think the estimate is 80,000 papers/year are published in the US or something
15:19 < Stee|> and you don't need nearly all of them
15:19 < Stee|> also, p. sure this is still illegal, no?
15:20 <@kanzure> wait, this is wrong
15:20 <@kanzure> "In 2009, there were 845,175 articles published and recorded in PubMed."
15:20 <@kanzure> ah but that's probably global
15:20 <@kanzure> "The authors used the most comprehensive citation indexes, Web of Science and Ullrichsweb, for their analysis.They estimate that 1.346 million articles were published in 23.750 journals within 2006. "
15:20 <@kanzure> i think they mean 23,750 journals
15:21 <@kanzure> "1.486 million peer-reviewed papers published within 2010."
15:37 < delinquentme> i dont get the UK and their use of dots instead of commas
15:37 < delinquentme> what do they use for decimals??
15:41 <@kanzure> the british are too proud to care about anything other than whole values
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15:49 < Urchin> that's a lot of peer reviewing
15:50 <@kanzure> that's only 10,000 people reviewing 100 articles each
15:50 < Urchin> that's a lot of peer reviewing
15:50 <@kanzure> but realistically if you review at least one article you review a lot more
15:50 <@kanzure> erm, wait
15:50 <@kanzure> i meant to say: realistically a single article is reviewed multiple times (probably less than 10, for most rejections)
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15:57 < delinquentme> Urchin, on a per year basis?
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18:35 < ybit> spanish robot movie http://www.evalapelicula.com/
18:37 < ybit> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/EVA_(pel%C3%ADcula_de_2011)
18:37 < ybit> queiro el torrent!
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18:48 < JayDugger> I started reading NASA's Space Technology Roadmaps & Priorities.
18:49 < JayDugger> It includes "Intelligent Integrated Manufacturing and Cyber Physical Systems (Manufacturing)," by which they mean watch everybody else for stuff we can use in space.
18:51 < JayDugger> "This technology would enable physical components to be manufactured in space...promises improved affordability of one-off structures made from high-performance materials...applicable to all NASA space vehicles including unmanned, robotic, and human-rated"
18:51 < JayDugger> It also ties in nicely with a different section on Automated Logistics Management. (Think GPS for parts.)
18:52 < JayDugger> So...
18:52 < JayDugger> skdb looks as if it would serve them nicely.
18:52 < JayDugger> And no, they don't include nuclear pulse rockets in the report.
18:53 < JayDugger> They do mention nuclear thermal rockets, but only in a half-hearted fashion.
18:54 < JayDugger> So while I'd buy `skdb make -me -a nuclearpulserocket`, NASA won't.
18:56 < JayDugger> And from the later chapters, it doesn't seem as if NASA will pay for skdb work at all. :(
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18:57 < Juul> nice
18:57 < Juul> JayDugger, I'm interested in 3D printing a lunar base
18:57 < JayDugger> They do mention AFRL (Air Force Research Labs) having some manufacturing research. I don't know whether USAF piggy-backs on DARPA's work.
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18:57 < Juul> but I don't know much about what kind of working is happening in that area
18:57 < Juul> do you know anything about that?
18:58 < JayDugger> I'm interested in a lunar colony. My wife doesn't want to move, not even in principle.
18:58 < JayDugger> Not really.
18:58 < Juul> ok
18:58 < JayDugger> I'd start looking from Contour Crafting and other 3d printers using concrete.
18:58 < JayDugger> I'd continue by research regolith simulation.
18:59 < Juul> seems to me that a big freznel lense (or multiple) would be light enough to send to the moon cheaply
18:59 < Juul> and using electrostatic soil separation and sunlight for melting, would be the best way to go
18:59 < JayDugger> Then I'd want to know if you could process regolith into something usable in a 3d printer sans water.
18:59 < JayDugger> Yeah...let me think.
18:59 < Juul> yeah i've done some homework on lunar soil
19:00 < yashgaroth> I thought they found water at the north pole or something
19:00 < JayDugger> Did you find anything in the '77 Space Settlement Study, or in Freitas's self-replication work from the '80s?
19:00 < Juul> there's a lot of titanium in the lunar soil in some places
19:00 < Juul> JayDugger, i do not know about this. thanks!
19:00 < Juul> do you have links perhaps?
19:01 < JayDugger> The NASA document has a lot of interest in multifunctional structures, which the Fresnel lens you mention might fit.
19:01 < JayDugger> Let me look...
19:01 < Juul> it would likely be possible to build new fresnel lenses
19:02 < Juul> using polished metal from the lunar soil
19:02 < Juul> so the first printer could probably build new printers
19:02 < Juul> excepting the electronics
19:02 < Juul> cool thanks!
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19:04 < JayDugger> http://settlement.arc.nasa.gov/index.html
19:04 < JayDugger> Haven't link-checked that...
19:04 < Juul> ok thanks
19:04 < JayDugger> http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/AASMIndex.html
19:06 < JayDugger> NEOs, not Luna http://alglobus.net/NASAwork/papers/AsterAnts/paper.html
19:07 < JayDugger> Lunar stereolithography http://www.freeluna.com/mdmfg.htm
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19:24 < Juul> coool
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23:05 < Stee|> kanzure, you around?
23:07 <@kanzure> o
23:07 <@kanzure> no
23:09 < Stee|> know anywhere that detailed the development of noopept?
23:09 < Stee|> russian papers?
23:10 <@kanzure> not off hand
23:11 < Mokbortolan_> В России, бумаги находят Вас!
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--- Log closed Fri Feb 03 00:00:45 2012