--- Log opened Sat Feb 11 00:00:05 2012
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01:52 < ybit> http://blog.slyon.de/3d-printed-gta04-case/ :: 3d printable openmoko case
01:52 < ybit> oh, not the case i had in mind
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08:25 < kanzure_> weird device:
08:26 < kanzure_> i want something that writes to a roll of paper like an old medical device,
08:26 < kanzure_> except it specifically graphs the passage of time for you
08:26 < kanzure_> maybe based on your computer interaction (time "speeds up" when you are working, or "slows down", i'm not sure which way it is)
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09:19 < uniqanomaly_> flowmeter
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11:27 < kanzure_> gahh failure after 0305750X/24/12
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12:03 < kanzure_> hi yashgaroth
12:03 < yashgaroth> yo
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12:25 < kanzure_> hrmm time to price out all these reagents
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13:12 < mag1strate> l
13:17 < yashgaroth> mag1strate: http://www.pranavmistry.com/projects/sixthsense/ is the sixthsense that steel was referring to btw
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13:18 < yashgaroth> fff
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13:24 < yashgaroth> mag1strate: http://www.pranavmistry.com/projects/sixthsense/
13:26 < mag1strate> oh
13:26 < mag1strate> I never knew it was called that
13:27 < mag1strate> so steel is going to try and make one of these?
13:28 < yashgaroth> it shouldn't be too hard
13:28 < mag1strate> I guess but he said he was working on his thesis so he might not have too much time
13:28 < mag1strate> lol
13:29 < yashgaroth> heh and a job lined up, so I don't think it'll be a full time thing yeah
13:30 < yashgaroth> still, it's mostly off-the-shelf components
13:31 < mag1strate> yeah it doesn't seem to bad
13:31 < mag1strate> just needs a little work
13:32 < mag1strate> you working on any projects yashgaroth?
13:32 < yashgaroth> oh sure, DIY gene therapy
13:33 < mag1strate> how so
13:33 < mag1strate> ?
13:34 < yashgaroth> well, once you find a good gene, it's fairly simple to design the plasmid DNA, then you electroshock it into a muscle, and bam you're transgenic
13:35 < mag1strate> really? have you done it yet or are you still trying to find a good gene?
13:35 < yashgaroth> I've found good genes, so now I'm trying to find someone who can make the electroporator; if I'd done it already I'd be a lot more full of myself
13:36 < mag1strate> lol
13:36 < mag1strate> will it be a painful procedure? Have you seen it done before?
13:37 < yashgaroth> it's slightly painful, though since pain = tissue damage and you don't want to destroy the tissue you're transfecting, it shouldn't be too bad
13:39 < yashgaroth> there's a swf video at http://www.ichorms.com/movies/Ichor.swf with one of the commercial ones, skip forward to the section with the person holding the device, they use it on someone about 30sec into that part
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13:47 < mag1strate> ok ill look at it
13:51 < mag1strate> Is this not used or is the FDA holding it back?
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13:53 < kanzure_> hi alf4lfa
13:53 < alf4lfa> hi
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13:53 < d3nd3> hello!
13:53 < alf4lfa> hi
13:53 < kanzure_> yashgaroth: i'm not sure electroporation is a good delivery method for muscle tissue o_o
13:53 < yashgaroth> sure it is
13:54 < kanzure_> hmmm
13:54 < mag1strate> Have they gone through clinical trials at least?
13:54 < yashgaroth> mag1strate: it's in clinical trials
13:54 < mag1strate> ok
13:54 < kanzure_> why not something less silly like.. i don't know.. the liposome-based dna delivery stuf
13:54 < kanzure_> *stuff
13:54 < Mokbortolan_> huh
13:54 < alf4lfa> anyone has made any progress with immortality here?
13:55 < Mokbortolan_> yashgaroth: wouldn't that cause immune reactions?
13:55 < kanzure_> alf4lfa: nope, it's up to you: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/
13:55 < yashgaroth> ehhhhh liposomes are toxic and expensive, also electroporation has a higher efficiency in vivo
13:55 < yashgaroth> what would cause immune reactions, the transgene?
13:55 < alf4lfa> me and my lab assistant d3nd3 are trying hard to find a way
13:55 < Mokbortolan_> wouldn't it change whatever it is immune cells look for?
13:55 < yashgaroth> erm no
13:55 < kanzure_> alf4lfa: well, start reading those papers
13:55 < Mokbortolan_> I mean, I'm sure it doesn't, these guys wouldn't have spent so much money if that was a n issue
13:56 < kanzure_> why do you think there might be an immune issue
13:56 < yashgaroth> if you're adding a foreign gene, it'll get attacked, but I'm focusing on overexpression of native genes for that reason
13:56 < Mokbortolan_> kanzure_: unfamiliarity with how the immune system works
13:57 < mag1strate> lol
13:59 < mag1strate> Are you going to make a device just like the one in hte video?
13:59 < Mokbortolan_> yashgaroth: Ok, overexpression I can see better
13:59 < yashgaroth> it'll be similar
13:59 < mag1strate> cool
13:59 < alf4lfa> do u guys think it is hard to change dna or something inorder to become immortal?
14:00 < Mokbortolan_> why does it need a device like that?
14:00 < kanzure_> alf4lfa: what does immortal mean
14:00 < kanzure_> and no we have many forms of dna manipulation technology
14:00 < alf4lfa> so u dont age anymore, removeing the death by old age thing
14:00 < kanzure_> ok well we only know a little bit about what aging is,
14:00 < yashgaroth> because the electrical field helps the DNA get into cells, which normally it won't in any significant amount
14:00 < kanzure_> there are some plans to defeat certain effects of aging
14:01 < kanzure_> but the totality is not yet known.
14:01 < Mokbortolan_> I think the only people who want to live forever are the young and those with regrets
14:01 < alf4lfa> are you all trying hard to find it out?
14:01 < yashgaroth> oh god, so hard
14:01 < Mokbortolan_> and the latter just because they're afraid of death
14:01 < kanzure_> Mokbortolan_: you're not helping
14:01 < Mokbortolan_> :(
14:01 < alf4lfa> i think the ones who wanna live forever, enjoy living and want more of it naturally
14:01 < mag1strate> isn't their a risk of certain other DNA getting affected by this?
14:02 < alf4lfa> there are 1000 reasons one would seek immortality :P
14:02 < d3nd3> we have already discussed together in great detail the reasons behind seeking immortality, we are aware of all the reasons and shit
14:02 < kanzure_> i don't think you need to question reasons
14:02 < kanzure_> to be in this channel.
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14:02 < Mokbortolan_> :p
14:02 < alf4lfa> why isnt everybody here trying to figure it out?
14:02 < kanzure_> alf4lfa: because not everyone in here understands how to go about it
14:03 < kanzure_> pretty lame reason though!
14:03 < alf4lfa> lol
14:03 < yashgaroth> mag1strate: what do you mean by 'certain other DNA'?
14:04 < alf4lfa> im thinking like, all this exciting stuff which is just waiting to be discoverd, we can discover everything when we have no time limit to life
14:04 < kanzure_> alf4lfa: please stop trying to convince us, we already agree with you
14:05 < alf4lfa> hmm, do you feel pressure when i try to convince you?
14:05 < kanzure_> no you're just wasting your time.. why are you trying to convince me of something that i already agree with?
14:05 < alf4lfa> i guess im a funny guy :D
14:05 < kanzure_> alright.. why not work on longevity projects instead of preaching to the choir :)
14:06 < alf4lfa> so since u agree with me, are you ready to join my club in order to make it?
14:06 < d3nd3> who says he is trying to convince anyone, to me it seemed like he was stating some information which increases awareness ..
14:06 < yashgaroth> there is no sillier place to spread awareness of immortalism than this IRC channel
14:07 < kanzure_> your club?
14:07 < kanzure_> jesus everyone wants to fracture the community
14:07 < kanzure_> everyone..
14:07 < alf4lfa> jea me and my lab assistant dende try to figure it out!
14:07 < mag1strate> the cool kids club
14:07 < yashgaroth> join usssss
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14:07 < alf4lfa> we would be 3 if u join us
14:07 < kanzure_> how about you join *us* instead?
14:07 < kanzure_> i.e. the rest of the internet
14:07 < yashgaroth> what sort of lab are you at alf?
14:07 < kanzure_> where there are no boundaries
14:07 < alf4lfa> are you trying to become immortal?
14:07 < kanzure_> alf4lfa: this is the transhumanism channel
14:08 < kanzure_> so the answer is duh yes?
14:08 < alf4lfa> ok cool im in
14:08 < alf4lfa> what do we do ?
14:08 < kanzure_> alf4lfa: well you should start by completely understanding http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/
14:08 < alf4lfa> roger that !
14:08 < kanzure_> also, you should build a lab
14:09 < alf4lfa> a lab, like i can buy some stuff online for my room?
14:09 < kanzure_> well ideally you have more than one room..
14:09 < alf4lfa> i dont think my mom would agree with that...
14:09 < kanzure_> murder her
14:09 < kanzure_> why do you live with your mom?
14:09 < yashgaroth> wait how do you have a "lab assistant" without a lab?
14:09 < alf4lfa> its cheaper
14:10 < kanzure_> hmm
14:10 < kanzure_> d3nd3: who are you
14:10 < alf4lfa> yashgaroth we live in a world where the creature is beginning to create the creature itself!! many things dont make sense
14:10 < kanzure_> are you a native speaker of english
14:11 < d3nd3> i think we should take a road less trodden on, these roads they suggest seem trodden on.... guess its back to wikipedia for us o.O
14:11 < kanzure_> what?
14:11 < yashgaroth> good god this is some alice in wonderland shit
14:12 < kanzure_> yashgaroth: i think they don't speak english..
14:12 < alf4lfa> ok so we going to learn everything about dna now, u guys try to allready find it out meenwhile ok?
14:12 < alf4lfa> when we read with our knowledge, we will kick ass cuz we have super smart brains :)
14:12 < alf4lfa> dont give up guys!! we will get it
14:12 < kanzure_> alf4lfa: it would be helpful if you speak in your native language (not english)
14:13 < d3nd3> we need to change our dna, not change dna from orginally ovum and then let it reproduce , thats no good for us, we want to change our dna, and mutate , and survive, do you know any way which we can infect the dna of every cell in our body ?
14:13 < alf4lfa> why? you dont understand my cool internet language slang?
14:13 < kanzure_> alf4lfa: i think you misunderstand my text, yes.
14:13 < kanzure_> d3nd3: gene therapies
14:13 < mag1strate> d3nd3: HIV?
14:13 < kanzure_> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/gene-therapy/
14:13 < yashgaroth> HIV has a narrow tropism
14:14 < mag1strate> I guess but they say they have been able to program the virus to do different things
14:14 < kanzure_> They Say
14:14 < kanzure_> who is they
14:14 < yashgaroth> also you'd need to eliminate your immune system to allow the virus to do its job
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14:16 < mag1strate> scientist
14:16 < mag1strate> s
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14:16 < mag1strate> it was an article I read a month or so ago
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14:16 < d3nd3> Okay , so if i took a rabbit, and i was testing a virus which could infect all of the rabbits dna, in every cell, so that it activated the fluorescent protein... this is possible, if it gets past the rabbi'ts immune system ... i would be interested to do such a project, i think that changing every dna of every cell of an already living organism is more useful for me who is interested in modifying his oneself
14:17 < yashgaroth> yep definitely not native speaker
14:17 < n_bentha> ownself*
14:18 < yashgaroth> considering a project of that scope is beyond the resources of any government or corporation, two guys in their mom's basement will be somewhat challenged
14:18 < kanzure_> but you can start with gfp+bacteria projects
14:18 < d3nd3> that opinion is not important
14:18 < d3nd3> yash
14:18 < kanzure_> you need to start with "hello world" and make your way up
14:18 < mag1strate> bacteria is probably the best option
14:19 < kanzure_> there are many tools and skills that you will acquire with a bacteria+fluorescence project.
14:19 < n_bentha> why is everyone doing gfp?
14:19 < n_bentha> WHAT ABOUT CFP?!?!
14:19 < yashgaroth> RFP 4 lyfe
14:19 < d3nd3> who wants to become part of my and alfalfa team , on skype we study together and grow and share ideas and work on same project
14:19 < n_bentha> i dare you to tattoo that on your chest
14:19 < d3nd3> its a close nit, closer than this
14:19 < alf4lfa> ok i will write hello world on the moon useing the new creature i evolve with my synthetic dna
14:20 < n_bentha> alf4lfa what is your project?
14:20 < kanzure_> d3nd3: why not use ##hplusroadmap instead of skype?
14:20 < d3nd3> we talk
14:20 < kanzure_> we can schedule skype calls, but this is more public
14:20 < d3nd3> we read to each other
14:20 < d3nd3> we keep each other motivated
14:21 < n_bentha> sorry alfalfa, was meant to say d3nd3
14:21 < n_bentha> what is your prokect d3nd3?
14:21 < d3nd3> i enter this topic from computer backgruond
14:21 < d3nd3> my imagination is wild
14:21 < d3nd3> i want to have wings so  that i can fly
14:21 < n_bentha> ...
14:21 < kanzure_> have you considered jetpacks
14:22 < mag1strate> lol
14:22 < n_bentha> go to flight school
14:22 < d3nd3> hacking is about fun for me
14:22 < d3nd3> and imagination is not far fetched
14:22 < d3nd3> when it comes to this field
14:22 < d3nd3> since already organisms are flying
14:23 < kanzure_> humans have been flying for more than 100 years
14:23 < d3nd3> thats not flying
14:23 < d3nd3> look at a bird
14:23 < d3nd3> thats flying
14:24 < d3nd3> we have downloaded the human source code
14:24 < d3nd3> whats our next step
14:24 < d3nd3> what programmer is good to use
14:24 < d3nd3> to view the code
14:24 < d3nd3> program*
14:24 < mag1strate> what file format?
14:25 < kanzure_> fasta?
14:25 < d3nd3> sec
14:25 < d3nd3> i tell you
14:25 < kanzure_> it depends on what you want to do
14:25 < kanzure_> do you want to parse it?
14:25 < d3nd3> 1.2 GB
14:26 < d3nd3> Homo_sapiens.0.dat
14:26 < d3nd3> its Craing Ventur
14:26 < d3nd3> w.e his name
14:26 < d3nd3> its his code -.-
14:26 < kanzure_> j. craig venter
14:26 < yashgaroth> you might be better off using http://genome.ucsc.edu/cgi-bin/hgGateway to start off with
14:26 < kanzure_> ok, what part of the data do you want to view?
14:27 < d3nd3> i was thinking to start off with something more simpler yes
14:27 < kanzure_> yashgaroth: some douchebags have been making software to "visualize" genomes
14:27 < kanzure_> yashgaroth: but it really gives the wrong message..
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14:27 < d3nd3> but the human genome is the most important thing here so i downloaded it
14:27 < kanzure_> yashgaroth: you can picture pathways and regulatory networks.. but that's not what people are asking for when they say 'visualize'
14:27 < kanzure_> d3nd3: well, start learning about the bioinformatics databases
14:27 < kanzure_> like kebb, metacyc, ncbi's shit, etc.
14:28 < d3nd3> i value this information you give me, bioinformatics diotase
14:28 < d3nd3> dtabase
14:28 < d3nd3> i presume you mean some online registry of standardized parts?
14:28 < kanzure_> no
14:28 < kanzure_> biobricks don't really work like standardized parts
14:29 < alf4lfa> i think biohacking is like minecraft, u have biobricks and u create creatures with it
14:29 < kanzure_> re: flight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15rsIFcYYc8#t=300
14:29 < kanzure_> alf4lfa: nope.. doesn't work like that
14:30 < d3nd3> kanzure our dedicated level is extremely high
14:30 < d3nd3> just letting you know
14:30 < d3nd3> we already gave up our lives
14:30 < d3nd3> to endeveaour this
14:30 < d3nd3> i dont gloat
14:30 < d3nd3> just seeing if u can appreciate
14:30  * n_bentha doesn't like the gateway system
14:30 < kanzure_> we will see.
14:30 < kanzure_> if you are willing, i have many things for you to do
14:30 < kanzure_> and many things for you to learn.
14:31 < alf4lfa> cool i am very intrested!
14:31 < n_bentha> d3nd3, also i want to say that flying a fighter jet is very much like flying
14:31 < alf4lfa> kanzure are you allways here in this channel? or u have skype?
14:31 < kanzure_> alf4lfa: always in here
14:31 < alf4lfa> ok
14:32 < n_bentha> you experience so many g's and you have tyo use all your senses and the plane become an extension of your body
14:32 < kanzure_> i also have skype.. but ##hplusroadmap always has people
14:32 < d3nd3> yes so the idea of wings is probably un-necesary
14:32 < d3nd3> but i don't want to rely upon diesel, unless ofc i am synthesizing diesel ;)
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14:33 < d3nd3> i would like to fly, because its a status
14:33 < n_bentha> hehe
14:33 < d3nd3> a status , and its on my body all the time
14:33 < d3nd3> and i bencome a new creatrure
14:33 < kanzure_> jetpacks.
14:33 < d3nd3> with new ability
14:33 < d3nd3> i like ethe idea of wings, i like dragons
14:33 < n_bentha> but the weight ratio is gonna kill u
14:34 < d3nd3> what have you for me to do then ?
14:34 < d3nd3> if you didn't have things for me to
14:35 < d3nd3> i would seek my own things to do
14:35 < d3nd3> what do you think its a good thing to do ?
14:35 < kanzure_> you should learn basic skills in molecular biology
14:35 < kanzure_> and diybio
14:35 < d3nd3> i have this thing where i believe that i have already most skills
14:35 < d3nd3> i can remove this belief
14:36 < kanzure_> d3nd3: http://protocol-online.org/
14:36 < kanzure_> you know how to do most of these?
14:36 < n_bentha> d3nd3, i'm just saying that you won't be able to give yourself wings that owuld allow you to fly
14:37 < d3nd3> i already discovered i can do anything bentha, since nature already did anything, so ... really you are just saying that because you know the limit of your own self, but maybe my limit is more than yours or what you believe to be your limit, just saying.
14:37 < n_bentha> because you'll have to design the system around flying--you can't modify a tank to fly
14:37 < kanzure_> d3nd3: no i mean... muscle training (how to execute the steps)
14:37 < d3nd3> i'm sorry guys, i know you are know better than me
14:38 < d3nd3> but i don't limit my possibilities so early
14:38 < n_bentha> you can't just add wings and then expect to fly. the wings require a higher o2 efficiency, a lighter body, etc
14:38 < d3nd3> in a field so diverse
14:38 < kanzure_> d3nd3: that is not what we are saying
14:38 < n_bentha> i think flying is a great dream and idea, but it's just not practical. you wouldn't be able to fly, yourself. i'm sure you could create a flying rabbit, however.
14:38 < kanzure_> n_bentha: he probably wants to add it to his blood supply or something.. this is a common fantasy
14:39 < n_bentha> blood supply?
14:39 < kanzure_> n_bentha: it is theoretically possible, but nobody knows how to do it
14:39 < kanzure_> yes.. some people want to grow new organs, wings and shit
14:39 < kanzure_> i don't know.
14:39 < n_bentha> but u won't be able to fly with them because of the weight ratio's :(
14:39 < n_bentha> sigh
14:39 < d3nd3> how do you know how big the wings are ?
14:39 < n_bentha> just don't want someone to waste their time on something liek that
14:39 < kanzure_> n_bentha: let him, it's ok
14:40 < n_bentha> not the weight ratio of the wings to the body, but the ratio of wieght to thrust
14:40 < n_bentha> ok kanzure_, i give up
14:40 < yashgaroth> bentha you just gotta believe in yourself
14:40 < kanzure_> n_bentha: i agree with you, though
14:40 < d3nd3> the bigger the wing, the bigger the surface area, the bigger the surface area, the heavier the object it can lift
14:40 < kanzure_> n_bentha: but he's already having communication issues in here
14:40 < kanzure_> n_bentha: you're saying some very specific thigs that he won't understand
14:40 < n_bentha> kk
14:41 < d3nd3> its ok bentha, you are correct
14:41 < kanzure_> things.. not thigs
14:41 < d3nd3> but if your mind had more possibilities, then you would have an alternative
14:41 < d3nd3> yes?
14:41 < kanzure_> jetpacks.
14:41 < kanzure_> why limit yourself to a bird's wing?
14:41 < d3nd3> they are beautiful, they don't blow up
14:42 < alf4lfa> lolololol
14:42 < kanzure_> they are not beautiful
14:42 < d3nd3> because you guys will be dependant upon technology, whereas me biology ?
14:42 < n_bentha> le sigh
14:43 < kanzure_> biology is techology
14:43 < d3nd3> technology doesn't grow in your child
14:43 < kanzure_> biology is technology
14:43 < d3nd3> biology does
14:43 < yashgaroth> some things are easier to do with mechanical technology than biology, though
14:43 < kanzure_> d3nd3: your child is technology
14:43 < kanzure_> cells are machines
14:43 < d3nd3> i am aware
14:43 < kanzure_> mechanical tech is sometimes more efficient
14:43 < alf4lfa> biological machines?
14:43 < kanzure_> right now, nobody knows how to edit a genome/embryo to add wings
14:43 < d3nd3> yet there is still a difference between techonlogical machinery and biological machinery
14:44 < kanzure_> however! some lab in nyc deleted wings from a chicken embryo
14:44 < n_bentha> who says an engine isn't biological?! some have carbon and metal and use hydrocarbons for energy!
14:44 < n_bentha> sorry, was feeling ridiculous
14:44 < d3nd3> if it consists of cells, its biological, and if it has dna, its biological
14:44 < d3nd3> if it doesn't, then its non-biological
14:44  * n_bentha does a silly walk w/ a silly hat
14:44 < d3nd3> lol
14:45 < kanzure_> d3nd3: if diesel is a dependency, then food is also a dependency
14:45 < n_bentha> http://image.spreadshirt.net/image-server/image/composition/10775019/view/1/producttypecolor/1/type/png/width/190/height/190/john-cleese-plain-silly-walk-men-s-shirt_design.png
14:46 < d3nd3> yes
14:47 < d3nd3> http://protocol-online.org/
14:47 < d3nd3> i never thought i had to know these things, if iam a coder
14:47 < d3nd3> i send my code to company
14:47 < d3nd3> and its done
14:47 < kanzure_> nope.. biology is very complex
14:47 < d3nd3> ok my code is requiring biological understanding
14:47 < kanzure_> yes
14:47 < kanzure_> you need to culture your cells
14:47 < kanzure_> you need to transform them, transfect them, select them, etc.
14:48 < d3nd3> i would need to do that, but how ever , if i reverse engineered the dna code well enough, i wouldn't need 10% of that biological knowledge
14:48 < kanzure_> yashgaroth: i don't see a pdf link on http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16162367
14:48 < kanzure_> d3nd3: you should learn the current state of the art of bioinformatics.
14:48 < d3nd3> i want to do some reverse engineering
14:48 < kanzure_> do you know any bioinformatics?
14:49 < kanzure_> ok. reverse engineering of dna means trial/error testing.
14:49 < d3nd3> no
14:49 < d3nd3> i want to do it my way
14:49 < kanzure_> what is your way
14:49 < d3nd3> to look at the dna and compare it to other creatures
14:49 < d3nd3> look for similarities
14:49 < d3nd3> look for patterns
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14:49 < kanzure_> ok. this is called homology.
14:49 < yashgaroth> kanzure: that's cuz elsevier are dicks, I'll see if I can find the direct link
14:49 < kanzure_> d3nd3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homology_(biology)
14:50 < kanzure_> look at this section:
14:50 < kanzure_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homology_(biology)#Sequence_Homology
14:50 < archels> kanzure_: I'm taking neurogenetics this semester. ^_^
14:50 < kanzure_> archels: whaat i thought you wrote your thesis and you're done?
14:51 < n_bentha> just for fun then archels?
14:52 < kanzure_> oh i guess that's possible
14:52 < d3nd3> name of program to view the dna , to help me find patterns inside the dna of a Human, find start of genes and chromosome numbers
14:52 < d3nd3> do you know any program to help me view that? the file type is .dat
14:52 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-73-240.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:52 < archels> kanzure_: This is my second Master's. Remember our chat about finite element modelling? That's my thesis topic.
14:52 < kanzure_> d3nd3: the file type is not .dat.. it is probably fasta or fafta or something
14:53 < kanzure_> d3nd3: you will need to identify genes on your own
14:53 < kanzure_> use something like bioperl, bioruby or biopython
14:53 < archels> But it is just for fun, I don't need to take it.
14:53 < kanzure_> archels: cool.
14:54 < d3nd3> i did this sudo apt-get install ensemble
14:54 < kanzure_> sudo apt-get install biopython
14:54 < kanzure_> search for promoter sequences.. i don't know what to tell you
14:55 < kanzure_> i suggest you start with the genes from ncbi
14:55 < kanzure_> and look at the single nucleotide polymorphisms
14:55 < mag1strate> you use ubuntu?
14:56 < d3nd3> yes
14:56 < mag1strate> ok
14:56 < mag1strate> just wondering
14:57 < d3nd3> i tried crunchbang and Haiku
14:57 < mag1strate> ever tried fedora?
14:57 < d3nd3> now back to ubuntu, because it has most followers ;)
14:57 < d3nd3> no
14:57 < n_bentha> d3nd3: DNAMAN
14:57 < mag1strate> I really like fedora
14:57 < n_bentha> and also try ncbi
14:58 < n_bentha> but dnaman is a good program for looking at dna, doing digestions, etc
14:58 < mag1strate> is that a distro?
14:58 < kanzure_> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/09553886
14:58 < sylph_mako> If a transhumanist were talking about some kind of entity called a SIM what would they be referring to?
14:58 < kanzure_> erm
14:58 < kanzure_> ERROR: Page did not load (status=fail): http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/09553886
14:59 < kanzure_> i'm p. sure that error is wrong
14:59 < kanzure_> sylph_mako: simulated intestinal maggots
14:59 < sylph_mako> I suppose one must be thorough.
14:59 < mag1strate> what does that even mean?
14:59 < kanzure_> indeed
15:00 < mag1strate> oh
15:00 < sylph_mako> entity as in being.
15:00 < mag1strate> and that being is a simulated intestinal maggot?
15:01 < kanzure_> "writing bibtex to sciencedirectjournals////index.bib"
15:01 < kanzure_> gahh why is this breaking
15:02 < sylph_mako> fuck it I'll just look it up. And here I thought asking here would cost less utility.
15:02 < kanzure_> sorry, i'm not familiar with it
15:02 < kanzure_> it probably means simulated
15:02 < sylph_mako> substrate-independent minds. lol.
15:03 < sylph_mako> So presumably not anything derived from humans.
15:03 < mag1strate> lol
15:04 < n_bentha> http://www.lynnon.com/
15:04 < n_bentha> "Our product, DNAMAN software package, provides an effective toolkit for sequence analysis and data mining."
15:04 < mag1strate> i tried looking it up but all I got was transhumanism conspiracies with sim cards
15:04 < n_bentha> for windows & mac
15:05 < d3nd3> what terminal command-line can i type on my .0.data 1.2gb file
15:05 < d3nd3> i installed those packages
15:05 < d3nd3> dunno which binary to call
15:05 < Mokbortolan_> Sigularity Instant Mashedpotatoes
15:05 < kanzure_> sylph_mako: oh that's probably randal koene
15:06 < kanzure_> yashgaroth: if you can find me a working link to the pdf on sciencedirect, i'll try to grab your paper
15:06 < mag1strate> d3nd3: What are you trying to do?
15:06 < d3nd3> mag1strate: study the dna of humans, its in this file i have 1.2gb
15:06 < mag1strate> d3nd3: by that I mean what command are you trying to use?
15:07 < d3nd3> mag1strate: i do not know, perhaps biopython????
15:07 < kanzure_> 4.3M http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/sciencedirect/microelectronics.journal.txt
15:08 < kanzure_> oh god character encoding errors
15:08 < kanzure_> OH GOD
15:08 < kanzure_> check out "Experimental study and analysis of corner compensation structures for CMOS compatible bulk micromachining using"
15:08 < kanzure_> how do i fix this
15:08 < mag1strate> d3nd3: to analyze the data?
15:09 < kanzure_> mag1strate: he wants to "find genes"
15:09 < d3nd3> mag1strate: my friend 4lfalfa has opened it with notepad , for now i will look at his screen via skype screen-sharing ... but yes, to analyze it, to read it for the first time, get a feel of it, and try to figure out some things, which the human eye is capable
15:10 < d3nd3> mag1strate: but it would be nice if i could find some information on the human genome generally? like maybe someon else's intuitive findings? maybe labels ?
15:10 < d3nd3> i see little sense me looking at stuff which has already been discovered its purpose
15:10 < mag1strate> d3nd3: ok ill see what I can find
15:10 < kanzure_> the labels you want are called snps
15:11 < kanzure_> or genes.
15:11 < kanzure_> here is the gene for human dna polymerase
15:11 < kanzure_> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/protein/2257773?report=fasta
15:12 < mag1strate> d3nd3: Here is some snps data http://snp.cshl.org/
15:12 < kanzure_> oops i meant to link to nuccore
15:12 < kanzure_> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/2257772
15:12 < kanzure_> tgtaattcag
15:12 < kanzure_> aaaaaatcag gcagatggcg catgctaact gatttaagag ccgttaatgc
15:12 < kanzure_> but this can be anywhere in your file, it might be used elsewhere etc.
15:12 < d3nd3> thank you xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
15:14 < alf4lfa> LOCUS       10 1000000 bp DNA HTG 22-NOV-2011 DEFINITION  Homo sapiens chromosome 10 GRCh37 partial sequence 1000001..2000000             reannotated via EnsEMBL ACCESSION   chromosome:GRCh37:10:1000001:2000000:1 VERSION     chromosome:GRCh37:10:1000001:2000000:1 KEYWORDS    . SOURCE      human   ORGANISM  Homo sapiens             Eukaryota; Metazoa; Eumetazoa; Bilateria; Coelomata; Deuterostomia;             Chordata; Craniata;
15:14 < d3nd3> is this fasta ?
15:14 < kanzure_> no
15:14 < kanzure_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FASTA_format
15:15 < alf4lfa>    410701 AAGCCTGTAA TCTCAGCACT TTGGGTGGCC GAGGCGGGTG GATCAAGGGG TCAGGAGATC
15:15 < alf4lfa> is this fasta?
15:15 < d3nd3> is this fasta?
15:16 < d3nd3> no, this is fasta
15:16 < d3nd3> >gi|5524211|gb|AAD44166.1| cytochrome b [Elephas maximus maximus] LCLYTHIGRNIYYGSYLYSETWNTGIMLLLITMATAFMGYVLPWGQMSFWGATVITNLFSAIPYIGTNLV EWIWGGFSVDKATLNRFFAFHFILPFTMVALAGVHLTFLHETGSNNPLGLTSDSDKIPFHPYYTIKDFLG LLILILLLLLLALLSPDMLGDPDNHMPADPLNTPLHIKPEWYFLFAYAILRSVPNKLGGVLALFLSIVIL GLMPFLHTSKHRSMMLRPLSQALFWTLTMDLLTLTWIGSQPVEYPYTIIGQMASILYFSIILAFLPIAGX IENY
15:18 < d3nd3> our file has TCGA
15:18 < d3nd3> this is which format than ?
15:18 < d3nd3> is there a program which reads that nicely ?
15:18 < d3nd3> except RNA polymerase:D#
15:19 < alf4lfa> lool
15:19 < kanzure_> what do you mean "reads icely"
15:19 < kanzure_> converts to amino acid sequences?
15:20 < mag1strate> more than likely
15:22 < d3nd3> recognizes known gene acceptor's, introns, branches and donors , aswell as exons
15:22 < n_bentha> what's a gene acceptor?
15:23 < yashgaroth> you mean splice donor and acceptor sites?
15:23 < d3nd3> yes
15:24 < d3nd3> i want to know which IDE i can find useful IDE, which has tools, with the most up to date comments, which can open many projects for different species, all wih the up to date information linked to that specific species
15:25 < kanzure_> sounds vague
15:25 < n_bentha> ncbi + dnaman = enough
15:25 < yashgaroth> what
15:25 < d3nd3> alf4lfa, download ncbi and dnaman
15:25 < alf4lfa> ok
15:25 < d3nd3> and where do i find my "project files" my "species data" .. which is compatible with dnaman and ncbi ? which file type does that want? fasta ?
15:27 < n_bentha> ncbi is a website, u nub
15:27 < d3nd3> haha
15:27 < kanzure_> what's wrong with downloading ncbi?
15:27 < kanzure_> you can download ncbi
15:27 < n_bentha> really?
15:27 < kanzure_> umm yes
15:27 < kanzure_> they provide a very nice ftp service
15:27 < d3nd3> yipee, i learnt a new word, ncbi
15:28 < d3nd3> ncbi is similar to a msdn for win32 programmers ?
15:28 < d3nd3> Nop! ofc Nop ! this is new stuff and everything is different !
15:28 < d3nd3> o.O
15:28 < alf4lfa> how can you get dnaman for free?
15:29 < kanzure_> biology is not like programming..
15:29 < d3nd3> it might be
15:29 < kanzure_> i know it's nice to imagine that it may one day be like it, but it's not
15:29 < kanzure_> we know it's not for a *fact*
15:29 < d3nd3> it doesn't matter really, because programming is not also like programming
15:29 < d3nd3> my mind is not like reality
15:29 < kanzure_> wtf?
15:29 < d3nd3> it never was
15:29 < d3nd3> never will be
15:30 < kanzure_> yes that's correct, your mind does not map to reality
15:30 < yashgaroth> :V
15:30 < d3nd3> yea so now thats why i use simiphores
15:30 < kanzure_> my point is, don't think of this as programming but rather selecting which genes
15:30 < d3nd3> i also create new words lol
15:30 < kanzure_> or doing rational protein design
15:30 < kanzure_> but rational protein design is also pretty broken
15:30 < d3nd3> i don't think of it as anything, but i already have a progrmaming model
15:30 < d3nd3> i will use that
15:30 < d3nd3> for now
15:30 < kanzure_> but it doesn't work..
15:30 < kanzure_> "msdn" is microsoft, not ncbi
15:31 < d3nd3> well you don't know how precise i am being with my simiphores
15:31 < d3nd3> think of it as a template
15:31 < d3nd3> not a copy
15:31 < kanzure_> yashgaroth: what sucks is that people behind biobricks etc. can easily sell shit as if it was as easy as programming
15:32 < yashgaroth> you mean, sell the idea to the public?
15:32 < kanzure_> yes
15:32 < d3nd3> programming is not easy
15:32 < d3nd3> only if you use high level language
15:32 < d3nd3> some things you say are not so accurate
15:32 < kanzure_> asm is very easy
15:33 < d3nd3> and so is machine code
15:33 < kanzure_> in comparison to protein engineering.
15:33 < d3nd3> and so is binary
15:33 < alf4lfa> tbh there exist no "easy" or "hard".. "hard" things just require bit more time
15:33 < d3nd3> Agreed
15:33 < kanzure_> yashgaroth: like, "ok i have this 3941`9041 gigabyte file how do i find genes" and all this stuff
15:34 < d3nd3> how do you put people's names down like that ? do you type them each time or are you using a special function to do so ?
15:34 < kanzure_> i type very quickly but i use tab completion
15:34 < d3nd3> kanzure_: ok
15:34 < d3nd3> kanzure_: thanks
15:34 < yashgaroth> man, finding genes with just the raw genome sequence is a waste of time for an organism that's already been mapped
15:34 < n_bentha> 	alf4lfa	how can you get dnaman for free?: just go to the website and go to download. u enter ur email and they send u a d/l link w/ p-word. then u can just use it as a demo version
15:34 < kanzure_> yashgaroth: yes
15:35 < alf4lfa> n_bentha: ok
15:35 < mag1strate> *Cough* TPB *Cough*
15:35 < kanzure_> just spell it out
15:35 < kanzure_> thepiratebay
15:35 < d3nd3> alfalfa
15:35 < d3nd3> lets use warez-bb
15:35 < d3nd3> im sure its there
15:35 < mag1strate> *cough* The Pirate Bay *Cough*
15:36 < n_bentha> " No hits."
15:36 < d3nd3> the question , teh very important question is : when will we be ready, prepared and brave enough, to insert a "virus" into our own cells , which could potentially kill us in the process
15:37 < n_bentha> you first
15:37 < kanzure_> d3nd3: they have already done this
15:37 < kanzure_> in monkeys as well as humans
15:37 < n_bentha> and that's not a question, but a run-on sentence
15:38 < kanzure_> d3nd3: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/gene-therapy/
15:39 < d3nd3> there will come a time in my life, when i will have to make that decision, and have the courage and faith in my life's study to insert it
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15:40 < d3nd3> kanzure_: papers are the answer to all ?
15:40 < d3nd3> kanzure_: what ca possibly be in those papers?#
15:40 < kanzure_> read them
15:40 < kanzure_> you are misinformed, there are already people who have been injected with retroviral gene therapies
15:40 < kanzure_> iand monkeys.
15:40 < kanzure_> you said there were none..
15:41 < kanzure_> and lentiviral and other-viral (not just retroviral of course)
15:41 < yashgaroth> also adeno-associated
15:41  * kanzure_ nods
15:41 < kanzure_> i really shouldn't say retroviruses so often
15:41 < mag1strate> Kanzure is right
15:41 < kanzure_> since those are less interesting.
15:41 < d3nd3> kanzure_: have you been a biologist from a young age?
15:41 < d3nd3> kanzure_: are you even a biologist?
15:42 < kanzure_> i don't know how to answer these questions
15:42 < d3nd3> kanzure_: the answers are false then, ignore them
15:42 < kanzure_> what?
15:42 < d3nd3> kanzure_: did you go to education system to learn specific biology courses?
15:42 < kanzure_> no i dropped out of college
15:42 < mag1strate> why?
15:43 < kanzure_> because fuck it, that's why?
15:43 < mag1strate> just wondering
15:43 < kanzure_> i have better things to be doing
15:43 < yashgaroth> I'm a biologist if you're looking for one
15:43 < kanzure_> like research and projects
15:43 < mag1strate> ok
15:43 < kanzure_> college is not conducive to this
15:43 < mag1strate> it helps though
15:43 < kanzure_> *shrug* not enough ;)
15:43 < mag1strate> lol
15:44 < d3nd3> i believe that knowledge is knowledge, there is no such thing as particular fields, well there is, but i am a person who like sknowledge from all areas, and merge into one , i don't like to tag specific knowledge as being only useful to one part of study o.O
15:44 < d3nd3> i am greedy ;) i want all knowledge
15:45 < kanzure_> you don't seem to have much biology knowledge
15:45 < d3nd3> its just words
15:45 < kanzure_> um..
15:45 < d3nd3> and yes i am a few days old in biology
15:45 < kanzure_> are you high?
15:45 < d3nd3> like
15:45 < d3nd3> 3 days old
15:45 < d3nd3> nice to meet you
15:45 < d3nd3> i am a toddler
15:45 < d3nd3> lol
15:45 < mag1strate> wtf just happened
15:46 < kanzure_> yashgaroth: but really, i need the pdf link for that paper you want
15:46 < yashgaroth> blergh I can't find it anywhere, it's all paywalled
15:46 < d3nd3> kanzure_: what is your goal in life
15:48 < d3nd3> kanzure_: can you carry me and alf4lfa to your current knowledge level closer?
15:48 < kanzure_> world domination
15:48 < kanzure_> bbl. need to go
15:48 < d3nd3> kanzure_: cu
15:48 < alf4lfa> kanzure_:  cu
15:49 < mag1strate> kanzure: cya
16:07 < d3nd3> can anyone further explain what is a sense sequence and antisense, wikipedia fails to give me "sense" .. notice the pun
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16:13 < yashgaroth> sense DNA strands have the same sequence as the transcribed mRNA, antisense strands are complementary to them
16:15 < d3nd3> mRNA was complentary to the DNA ?
16:15 < d3nd3> so how can it have the same sequence?
16:15 < d3nd3> also it has U , instead of T ?
16:15 < yashgaroth> the mRNA for a protein will be complementary to the antisense strand, and yes RNA has U instead of T
16:16 < d3nd3> where are these antisense strands and strands existing ?
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16:16 < yashgaroth> in the genome, on a chromosome
16:17 < delinquentme> https://bitbucket.org/wwmm/oscar4/wiki/Examples  << what do I have to wrap java code in to get it to run
16:17 < delinquentme> ?
16:17 < d3nd3> the double helix has 2 long polymers ( strands ) , you can name those 2 as sense and anti-sense ?
16:17 < delinquentme> this example doesnt run
16:18 < yashgaroth> you only define them as sense/anti-sense if one of them codes for an mRNA, but yes
16:18 < d3nd3> "codes for an mRNA"
16:19 < d3nd3> can re-word that for simpletons
16:19 < yashgaroth> if the strand is a place where RNA polymerase will attach and generate mRNA
16:19 < d3nd3> yashgaroth: or clarify
16:20 < d3nd3> ahhh
16:20 < d3nd3> okay
16:20 < d3nd3> there is a part of the strand which is generating mRNA
16:20 < d3nd3> and that part is named sense and anti-sense
16:21 < yashgaroth> yes
16:21 < d3nd3> so the mRNA is created from the anti-sense strand ?
16:21 < d3nd3> erm, and teh sense strand , has no purpose ?
16:21 < d3nd3> knwon*
16:21 < d3nd3> *known*
16:22 < yashgaroth> erm, yes, the mRNA is created from the anti-sense
16:22 < yashgaroth> "purpose" depends on how you look at it
16:22 < d3nd3> the mRNA is complenary of the anti-sense
16:22 < d3nd3> but also the sense is complentary of the anti-sense
16:22 < d3nd3> so the sense = the mRNA ?
16:22 < yashgaroth> the sense has the same sequence as the mRNA, yes
16:23 < d3nd3> why don't they just use the sense then instead of complement the anti-sense ?
16:23 < yashgaroth> "they" is the RNA polymerase?
16:23 < d3nd3> haha
16:23 < d3nd3> =D
16:23 < d3nd3> well nature is evolved to efficiency ;P
16:24 < d3nd3> thought it would know the best ^^
16:24 < d3nd3> efficient
16:24 < d3nd3> lol
16:24 < d3nd3> they can't copy strands, can only complement them to create new
16:24 < yashgaroth> it...what?
16:24 < d3nd3> perhaps thats it
16:24 < yashgaroth> yes^
16:24 < yashgaroth> that's why
16:24 < d3nd3> thanks for the yes
16:24 < d3nd3> i was afraid
16:24 < d3nd3> i would be wrong
16:24 < d3nd3> three times in a row
16:25 < d3nd3> okay thanks now we move on
16:25 < d3nd3> to next chapter of wikipedia
16:25 < d3nd3> yashgaroth: bbl
16:26 < d3nd3> yashgaroth: does most information(code) purpose to create mRNA ? and only small amounts for other tasks ?
16:26 < d3nd3> mm sry for confusing strange questions
16:26 < yashgaroth> actually only a small amount of the genome gets translated into RNA
16:28 < d3nd3> Both sense and antisense sequences can exist on different parts of the  same strand of DNA (i.e. both strands contain both sense and antisense  sequences)
16:28 < d3nd3> this is quote from wikipedia, i dont' know why the anti-sense is on the same strand :: the only explanation to sense and anti-sense was that they were on seperate strands because i knew the seperate strands were complements of each other .. but with the anti-sense and sense sequence on teh same strand, i am confused to think that they are complements of each other, and living on the same strand
16:29 < alf4lfa> ur too fast!!
16:29 < alf4lfa> lol
16:30 < yashgaroth> yeah that's a confusing question
16:34 < d3nd3> yashgaroth: my belief was that there were 2 opposites strands, they had the same genetic code, and the reason there was 2 of them was for dna replication, for when a cell divides from one cell, into two.  It puts a dna strand into each new cell , and then that new cell copies ( complements ) that dna strand to create a second dna strand.  Thats how i believed in the creation and existence of complementing strands.   
16:34 < alf4lfa> rofl i doupt he wanna read all this :D
16:34 < mag1strate> yashgaroth: are you a biologist?
16:35 < alf4lfa> roflroflrofl
16:35 < yashgaroth> yes I am mag
16:35 < alf4lfa> i "can"
16:35 < yashgaroth> yes d3nd3 you're correct
16:36 < mag1strate> yashgaroth: just wondering you really seem to know alot
16:37 < mag1strate> yashgaroth: going back to our earlier conversation, so the gene is augmented?
16:37 < yashgaroth> ...sort of, yes, you're augmenting the amount of it
16:39 < yashgaroth> and it's a modified version of that native gene
16:40 < mag1strate> oh ok
16:40 < mag1strate> so if you have a certain sequence it gets correct by changing the amount of the gene you don't want?
16:41 < yashgaroth> ?
16:43 < d3nd3> i don't understand this quote from wikipedia
16:43 < d3nd3> do you ?
16:43 < d3nd3> yashgaroth: Both sense and antisense sequences can exist on different parts of the same strand of DNA
16:43 < mag1strate> i mean if you have an undesirable gene, by increasing the supply of a different gene you would remove the old one
16:47 < yashgaroth> d3nd3: yes, if they're not overlapping
16:48 < yashgaroth> mag1strate: yes you can do that
16:49 < d3nd3> [00:48:51 BST] d3nd3-o0: if the sense is on strand 1
16:49 < d3nd3> [00:48:55 BST] d3nd3-o0: the anti-sense also on strand 1
16:49 < d3nd3> [00:48:57 BST] d3nd3-o0: then the antisense
16:49 < d3nd3> [00:49:00 BST] d3nd3-o0: would had also
16:49 < d3nd3> [00:49:04 BST] d3nd3-o0: an anti-anti sense
16:49 < d3nd3> [00:49:05 BST] d3nd3-o0: lol
16:49 < d3nd3> [00:49:08 BST] d3nd3-o0: on stra
16:49 < d3nd3> strand 2 *
16:51 < d3nd3> or an anti-ant-sense can be called a sense again
16:51 < d3nd3> o.O
16:54 < mag1strate> yashgaroth: what do you mean by overlapping?
16:56 < yashgaroth> like, within the same space on the DNA
17:03 < mag1strate> oh ok
17:03 < mag1strate> sweet
17:03 < mag1strate> thank you for explaining that to me
17:03 < mag1strate> :)
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17:54 < d3nd3> mitosis is duplication
17:54 < d3nd3> of egg and sperm cell ?
17:54 < d3nd3> replication*
17:54 < d3nd3> sex cells * ?
17:55 < alf4lfa> jea the first split of the first cell from a organism???
17:55 < d3nd3> Mitosis is the process by which a eukaryotic cell separates the chromosomes in its cell nucleus into two identical sets, in two separate nuclei.
17:55 < d3nd3> its not just sex cells
17:55 < d3nd3> its all eukaryotic
17:55 < d3nd3> cells
17:56 < d3nd3> so that dis functioning mutant cell
17:56 < d3nd3> is not for the children
17:56 < d3nd3> but for the children cells
17:56 < d3nd3> not children species
17:56 < d3nd3> but children cells
17:57 < d3nd3> so that leads me to wonder
17:57 < d3nd3> that if you modify the dna of a cell
17:57 < d3nd3> it doesn't do anything bad until it replicates? ( undergoes mitosis? )
17:57 < d3nd3> or does it only depend if the mutation happens in the part of the cell which is expressed ( gene which is expressed? )
18:00 < d3nd3> chromosone is broken in half
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18:44 < alf4lfa> hi
18:44 < d3nd3> hi
18:44 < alf4lfa> anyone here?
18:44 < d3nd3> we have question
18:44 < _sol_> hello
18:44 < d3nd3> anyone here?
18:44 < alf4lfa> simple question!
18:44 < d3nd3> yes
18:44 < yashgaroth> you guys are adorable, go ahead
18:46  * _sol_ jacks into the network with his biohack netdeck, and zones out to wiki-google before becoming addicted to feedback from the network...
18:46 < _sol_> :P
18:46 < alf4lfa> a chromosome, is it the 2 paired dna's or is a chromosome a single dna and it allways comes in pairs in the human?
18:47 < alf4lfa> we dont know wether to call the 2 double helix (looking like a X) a chromosome, or the single ones
18:47 < yashgaroth> it's a pair of two mostly identical DNAs, one from each parent
18:47 < alf4lfa> ah ok so a chromosome is allways 2 dna's
18:47 < alf4lfa> ty :P
18:48 < _sol_> I thought a chromosome was a dna strand that was paired up wrapped around histones which I think are little balls of protein that winds up into a chromosome form
18:48 < _sol_> although I need a refresher...
18:48 < yashgaroth> it's also that
18:48 < yashgaroth> also in germ cells like sperm and eggs, it's one strand
18:49 < d3nd3> question : there are 23 chromosones, but they are duplicated?
18:49 < yashgaroth> yes, so 23x2
18:49 < d3nd3> and the X shape that forms a chromosone :: its One Chromosone ?
18:49 < d3nd3> or 2 ?
18:50 < d3nd3> is the X shape the pair ?
18:50 < d3nd3> the dupicated pair ?
18:50 < d3nd3> or is the X shape one chromosone of the 46
18:50 < yashgaroth> the X is one of the 23
18:50 < d3nd3> the X contains 2 ?
18:51 < yashgaroth> y...yes
18:51 < d3nd3> this line / = a chromatid ?
18:51 < d3nd3> and this line \ = a chromatid ?
18:51 < d3nd3> combined form a chromozone ?
18:51 < d3nd3> so there are 23 chromosomes, which are .. 46 chromatids ?
18:51 < d3nd3> lol
18:52 < _sol_> I thought 42 was the secret of the universe not hte number 46?
18:52 < _sol_> heh
18:53 < d3nd3> i think then wikipedia is wrong
18:53 < _sol_> hmm?
18:53 < _sol_> it doesn't describe the # of chromosomes right?
18:53 < _sol_> or something else?
18:54 < d3nd3> if the X is named a chromosome, then there are 23 chromosomes in a human
18:55 < d3nd3> if the \ is named a chromosone , then there are 46 in a human
18:55 < d3nd3> but wiki names the \ as a chromatid
18:55 < d3nd3> when defining a chromosome, why do they show the X shape from a diploid cell
18:55 < d3nd3> its highly misleading
18:56 < yashgaroth> because that's the most recognizable
18:57 < Stee|> so, what is everyone in here's project currently?
18:58 < d3nd3> i have more questions about this chromosomes, like , you say one from the father and one from the mother, can you tell me how recessive allelles and dominant allelles plays a part in this ? also my bigger picture of the biolgical world there is that, there are 23 chromosomes, but they are twice ... and they aren't duplicated , they are different. Total different sets, since one has come from mother and one has come f
18:58 < d3nd3> So question is , which chromosone is code for me?! and which chromome is code for my offspring?
19:00 < d3nd3> Stee|: mine is to gather as much knowledge as i can
19:00 < yashgaroth> have you considered not learning an entire scientific field on wikipedia, and instead downloading a copy of Molecular Biology of the Cell and reading it?
19:00 < Stee|> d3nd3: What goal?
19:01 < Stee|> I can give you a whole fuckton of knowledge in useless shit.
19:01 < d3nd3> Stee|: synthetic biology
19:01 < Stee|> ahhh
19:01 < Stee|> what's your bg?
19:02 < kanzure_> you don't have 1 chromosome for you, and 1 for your child..
19:04 < d3nd3> Stee|: background ? nothing and nobody really. I had small interest in learning how computers work a little. Small knowledge on c, little asm, little stuff, very broad and light knowledge. But now i found something i have passion in, and so i am taking it serious with a long-term friend who also has made the same decision that we want to take this field seriously
19:05 < d3nd3> Stee|: we lived as gamers for some years, not achieving much really
19:06 < Stee|> ah
19:06 < Stee|> sweet
19:06 < d3nd3> its probably a lot to do with fear
19:06 < d3nd3> fearing the things which seem to be over our heads
19:07 < yashgaroth> clouds?
19:08 < d3nd3> combine that with laziness, confusion and lack of motivation, its hard for one to get of his butt and live his life as he would dream it
19:10 < roksprok> d3nd3: might i respectfully suggest picking up or downloading a textbook on molecular biology?  I have found that working my way through a textbook is the easiest and quickest way to learn a new field of knowledge
19:11 < yashgaroth> seriously, everything in Mol Bio of the Cell is useful, it's worth your time
19:11 < roksprok> for example I'm currently working through http://grey.colorado.edu/CompCogNeuro/index.php/CCNBook/Main a book on computational cognitive neuroscience
19:12 < roksprok> in fact it sounds like we are in similar situations in that we have one subject we are extremely passionate about
19:13 < d3nd3> i am learning at the same rate as my friend, we are in sync
19:13 < d3nd3> i am happy to take a slightyl strange approach to learning if it keeps us in sync
19:13 < d3nd3> as in interactive
19:13 < d3nd3> unless we both read this book at same time together
19:13 < d3nd3> ;)
19:13 < alf4lfa> je we useing wikipedia with a happy and positive attitude
19:14 < roksprok> well whatever works for you, good luck with it
19:14 < d3nd3> but that book
19:14 < d3nd3> we will read it for sure
19:14 < d3nd3> because
19:14 < d3nd3> we are hardcore
19:14 < d3nd3> lol
19:14 < alf4lfa> because we read everything :D
19:14 < d3nd3> we will run out of books
19:14 < d3nd3> eventually
19:14 < d3nd3> lol
19:15 < roksprok> good luck with that
19:15 < roksprok> you will be very good on jepoardy
19:15 < d3nd3> so the book that you suggest its : instead downloading a copy of Molecular Biology of the Cell and reading it?
19:15 < d3nd3> haha
19:16 < d3nd3> well , we are determined to achieve our goal, our goal is very hard we thinks .. and its important we get it
19:16 < d3nd3> well i could say , our life depends on it ^^
19:16 < Stee|> heh
19:16 < roksprok> well just try it out, see if you like it.  as you know there is no wrong way to do it
19:16 < Stee|> roksprok, what's your project?
19:17 < roksprok> stee|: i am very much in the learning phase still, but brain computer interfaces
19:17 < Stee|> cool
19:17 < Stee|> building, hopefully?
19:17 < roksprok> the super long term goal of course is to replace parts of the brain with machines, a la ted berger
19:17 < d3nd3> does the learning phase ever stop ?^^
19:17 < kanzure_> d3nd3: no. stop asking.
19:17 < d3nd3> it slopes like a curve on a graph, it starts to approach horizontal
19:18 < d3nd3> eventually... i hope
19:18 < roksprok> d3nd3:  I meant in the preparing a foundation stage, not even close to horizontal
19:18 < d3nd3> right now its steep lol
19:18 < roksprok> Stee|: yea  building.  i am a shit programmer
19:19 < d3nd3> yashgaroth: do you have link i can download this book molecular biology of cell?
19:19 < yashgaroth> http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/5401801/Molecular_Biology_of_the_Cell_-_Alberts_-_5th_ed
19:21  * d3nd3 praises yash
19:23 < yashgaroth> so where are you two from?
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19:30 < d3nd3> myself, England, him Germany
19:30 < d3nd3> yes we have met in real life ;)
19:31 < kanzure_> you are not english
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19:32 < d3nd3> afraid i am XD
19:33 < alfalfa> hi
19:33 < d3nd3> he is the non-english mutant !
19:33 < d3nd3> not me ^^
19:33 < yashgaroth> is english your first language?
19:33 < d3nd3> me , yes , him , no
19:33 < d3nd3> i type bad on purpose
19:33 < d3nd3> its my style
19:33 < d3nd3> ^^
19:33 < alfalfa> hey i have question: in human there is allways a pair of chromosomes, are they identical?
19:33 < kanzure_> your style sucks
19:33 < kanzure_> be more clear
19:33 < d3nd3> kanzure_: thanks !
19:34 < yashgaroth> okay you guys both read through that textbook, then come back with questions
19:34 < d3nd3> haha
19:34 < alfalfa> lol
19:34 < roksprok> alfafa: they encode the same genes, but different alleles
19:34 < roksprok> you get one from your mother and one from your father
19:34 < roksprok> have you heard of dominant and recessive?
19:34 < alfalfa> hm it sounds familiar
19:35 < d3nd3> where is it stored to choose which allelle ?
19:35 < d3nd3> also how is gene expression executed ?
19:35 < d3nd3> for a particular cell
19:36 < roksprok> like you, your parents each had two, and one from each of them was passed down to you
19:36 < roksprok> with minor mutations due to copying errors
19:36 < roksprok> d3nd3: gene expression is a huge process
19:36 < alfalfa> ohh mutations.. that explains my intelligence
19:36 < alfalfa> cuz my mom and dad are kinda not so ...
19:36 < roksprok> you'd be better off googling or looking on wikipedia or reading the text book
19:37 < yashgaroth> TEXTBOOK
19:37 < d3nd3> Okay
19:37 < alfalfa> ok ty for the info
19:37 < d3nd3> i thought maybe i can build a skeleton or template idea from your simple words but not the full picture
19:37 < d3nd3> i have this ability
19:37 < kanzure_> alfalfa: intelligence isn't a real thing, don't think of it like that
19:37 < d3nd3> to think of skeletons
19:37 < kanzure_> well, think of reading the book, instad
19:37 < kanzure_> *instead
19:37 < alfalfa> its not real?
19:37 < d3nd3> the cake is not real!
19:38 < roksprok> d3nd3: i would love to give you a skeleton, but i am probably the most ignorant one in here concerning molecular biology
19:38 < roksprok> so you would have a really crappy skeleton
19:38 < d3nd3> roksprok: i appreciate your honesty
19:38 < alfalfa> kanzure_: i am intrested in ur philosophy about intelligence
19:38 < kanzure_> no you're not
19:39 < yashgaroth> hahaha
19:39 < alfalfa> kanzure_:  i am because i am a great philosopher and i have maybe similar views, come on we can make some bonds if we have same opinion
19:39 < kanzure_> there is a no-philosophy rule in here
19:39 < kanzure_> "intelligence [D"is too much philosophy
19:39 < kanzure_> oops, "intelligence" is too much philosophy
19:40 < alfalfa> ok then, i go digg in my textbooks :P
19:41 < roksprok> alfalfa and d3nd3: enjoy and good luck, i hope you accomplish all you seek to
19:41 < alfalfa> roksprok: thank you roksprok
19:44 < sylph_mako> d3nd3, I didn't realize the skeleton thing was a thing that people can do. I suffer when I'm asked to learn skeletons.
19:47 < sylph_mako> I complain about there being no real knowledge to them, requesting details of composite mechanisms rather than overviews.
19:47 < sylph_mako> component*
19:50 < Stee|> sylph, what are you talking about?
19:51 < sylph_mako> <d3nd3> i thought maybe i can build a skeleton or template idea from your simple words but not the full picture
19:51 < sylph_mako> <d3nd3> i have this ability
19:51 < sylph_mako> I do not have this ability.
19:51 < Stee|> ahhh
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19:54 < Stee|> augur, what is your project?
19:54 < augur> what?
19:54 < Stee|> what are you working on? :P
19:55 < augur> what do you mean
19:58 < Stee|> are you working on a cool project
20:04 < Mokbortolan_> his hobby is painting lawn gnomes, and he doesn't want to talk about it
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20:35 < kanzure_> argh pjscrape
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21:20 < kanzure_> phantomjs is just giving me segfaults. not fair..
21:20  * kanzure_ sleeps
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22:52 < Mokbortolan_> what causes this: http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhz1CYVNt6XbIVT22C
22:53 < Mokbortolan_> one thing that will be fun
22:53 < Mokbortolan_> I think, is learning how all of what we're doing is going to affect us
22:53 < Mokbortolan_> developmentally
22:53 < Mokbortolan_> or, our children, and theirs
22:54 < Mokbortolan_> the link is a video about a young man who is in an intimate relationship with his vehicle
23:16 < Mokbortolan_> how weird are kids going to grow up to be if we let them put high resolution displays on their corneas?
23:16 < yashgaroth> that video reminds me of the encyclopedia dramatica article on transhumanism, back when that site was up
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--- Log closed Sun Feb 12 00:00:06 2012