--- Log opened Sun Feb 12 00:00:06 2012 00:47 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-24-94-5-223.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:58 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:59 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:59 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:46 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-78-36.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:47 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone. 01:59 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-78-36.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:54 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-175-14.shv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:04 -!- klafka [~textual@c-71-204-150-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:06 -!- marainein [~marainein@114-198-72-8.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:19 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-175-14.shv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:20 < delinquentme> marainein, howdy! 03:24 < marainein> delinquentme, hi 03:24 < delinquentme> You here to buy some life extension pills? 03:25 < marainein> in a word, no 03:28 < marainein> yourself? 03:35 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-73-240.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:28 -!- ziyadb [u4806@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-emvyawlisgzyhndq] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:33 -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@dynamic-78-8-87-37.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:42 -!- ziyadb_ [u4806@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jaswujouiydopacy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:42 -!- ziyadb_ [u4806@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jaswujouiydopacy] has quit [Changing host] 04:42 -!- ziyadb_ [u4806@unaffiliated/ziyadb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:42 -!- ziyadb_ [u4806@unaffiliated/ziyadb] has quit [Changing host] 04:42 -!- ziyadb_ [u4806@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jaswujouiydopacy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:17 -!- ziyadb_ is now known as ziyadb 06:01 < mag1strate> s 07:04 < delinquentme> marainein, im here to try and make em :D 07:04 < delinquentme> mag1strate, howdy 07:24 < mag1strate> hey whats up 07:48 < delinquentme> java 07:48 < delinquentme> ing 07:48 < delinquentme> troubleshooting 07:53 < mag1strate> cool 07:53 < mag1strate> what are you doing on java? 07:53 < delinquentme> trying to get jython and java to talk so I can pass strings between then 07:53 < delinquentme> them* 08:00 < mag1strate> thats cool 08:01 < mag1strate> are you a programming major 08:01 < mag1strate> or comp science 08:10 < delinquentme> nope! going at it on my own 08:14 < mag1strate> nice 08:15 < mag1strate> I am trying to learn C but I have been going slow at it since school has been in the way 08:15 -!- klafka [~textual@c-71-204-150-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:16 < delinquentme> mag1strate, im a little butt hurt over it atm 08:16 < delinquentme> the object inheritance is all effed up 08:16 < delinquentme> granted this is my first compiled language though so 08:16 < mag1strate> that sucks 08:17 < mag1strate> where are you having the problem 08:18 < delinquentme> references to .class files 08:18 < delinquentme> i say its there .. java says its not 08:18 < mag1strate> hmm 08:18 < mag1strate> that seems weird 08:19 < mag1strate> it should pick it up 08:20 < mag1strate> you might be running your program using jar command and class was not defined in manifest file's ClassPath attribute 08:28 < delinquentme> yeahh but im adding to class path right there in the javac command 08:37 < mag1strate> oh 08:37 < mag1strate> lol im not sure than. I know thats a common problem though 08:42 < klafka> ? 08:45 < mag1strate> ? 08:47 < delinquentme> klafka, java is reference hell 09:00 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-37-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:00 -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r190-135-37-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:00 -!- alfalfa [58497015@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.73.112.21] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:10 -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r190-135-37-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:29 < klafka> fuck java 09:29 < klafka> so hard 09:30 < klafka> btw delinquentme you're trying to move out here right? we have job openings for clicky-click web company :P 09:34 < delinquentme> oh 09:34 < delinquentme> du now? 09:34 < delinquentme> rails? 09:46 < delinquentme> klafka, ^^ 09:49 < delinquentme> THERE 09:49 < delinquentme> IT IS DONE 09:51 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil] 09:51 < mag1strate> noice 09:51 < delinquentme> jython tester.py "nacho" 09:51 < mag1strate> what does it do? 09:52 < delinquentme> right now it passes a variable into a java program which basically creates a "HI " +name and returns it 09:52 < delinquentme> HOPEFULLY 09:52 < delinquentme> im going to edit that so I can pass in human written chemical formulas and get codified output 09:53 < delinquentme> so like I can just feed it research papers and begin building up a database of this shit 09:54 < mag1strate> thats cool 09:54 < mag1strate> so its going to translate chemical formulas and give you a different type of output? 09:55 < delinquentme> yeah! 09:55 < delinquentme> but the cool thing is ... this is *WORKING* NLP 09:55 < delinquentme> like google working on regular NLP for people -talk 09:55 < delinquentme> but since this is a niche application ! 09:56 < delinquentme> someone has already made a working piece of software 09:57 < klafka> delinquentme mainly javascript 09:57 < mag1strate> thats cool 09:57 < klafka> we'll probably need more rails people in a bit 09:58 < mag1strate> what are rails people? 09:58 < klafka> hobos 09:58 < delinquentme> klafka, are you guys backed on rails? 09:58 < klafka> yes 09:58 < delinquentme> testacular 09:59 < klafka> rails + mongodb is our back end 09:59 < delinquentme> klafka, what databases? 09:59 < delinquentme> ^^ 09:59 < delinquentme> know anything about the rails stack? 09:59 < delinquentme> Id assume Haml / Sass / Compass? 09:59 < klafka> we do use some mysql and some redis as well 09:59 < klafka> nooo idea frankly 10:00 < delinquentme> coooool 10:00 < delinquentme> yeah man I'd totally apply 10:00 < klafka> so ypure specifically interested in a rails dev spot then? 10:03 < klafka> k i'll let you know about that, though idk if we're gonna be hiring more of those till like q3 or q2 -_- 10:05 < delinquentme> umm well i can do both 10:05 < delinquentme> rails is kinda whats hot out there so thats what I was expecting 10:05 < delinquentme> but I've got pages on pages of JS i can send over 10:23 -!- marainein [~marainein@114-198-72-8.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:23 -!- marainein [~marainein@114-198-72-8.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:25 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-37-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:48 -!- jmil [~jmil@2607:f470:8:3148:9023:edf0:f5cb:8dca] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:52 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:53 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-37-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:56 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-175-14.shv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:36 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-37-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:39 -!- marainein [~marainein@114-198-72-8.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:40 -!- marainein [~marainein@114-198-72-8.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:00 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-73-240.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:04 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-24-94-5-223.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:05 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@adsl-70-238-201-173.dsl.lbcktx.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:11 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-73-240.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:21 < kanzure_> delinquentme should just use a grammar/parser for chemical equations instead. 12:27 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-73-240.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:52 -!- kanzure_ is now known as kanzure 13:00 -!- klafka [~textual@c-71-204-150-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:13 < kanzure> http://www.neuropharmacology-conference.elsevier.com/special-issue.html 13:13 < kanzure> "Neuropharmacology will be publishing a Special Issue on “Cognitive Enhancers” for distribution to each delegate at the 22nd Neuropharmacology Conference; a satellite meeting to the 2012 Society for Neuroscience meeting. This year’s meeting will be organized by Gary Lynch and Barbara Sahakian." 13:15 < kanzure> hah elsevier computes a "5-year impact factor" 13:15 < kanzure> http://www.journals.elsevier.com/neuropharmacology/#description 13:16 < mag1strate> is this a live meeting 13:16 < kanzure> society for neuroscience is a live meeting each year, yes 13:17 < kanzure> i believe there's even a debian delegation that attends :x 13:19 < mag1strate> what is that? 13:19 < kanzure> debian? 13:20 < mag1strate> the OS? 13:21 < kanzure> that's linux 13:21 < kanzure> well yes 13:21 < kanzure> anyway, them. 13:21 < kanzure> their neuroscience team. 13:22 < mag1strate> oh lol 13:22 < kanzure> http://neuro.debian.net/ 13:33 < mag1strate> debian with software for neuroscience 13:33 < mag1strate> thats pretty cool 13:49 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@adsl-70-238-201-173.dsl.lbcktx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:58 < kanzure> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21328514.900-molecules-from-scratch-without-the-fiendish-physics.html 13:58 < kanzure> "His team focused on a basic property: the energy tied up in all the 13:58 < kanzure> bonds holding a molecule together, the atomisation energy. The team 13:58 < kanzure> "When the researchers tested the resulting algorithm on the remaining 13:58 < kanzure> built a database of 7165 molecules with known atomisation energies 13:58 < kanzure> and structures. The computer used 1000 of these to identify 13:58 < kanzure> structural features that could predict the atomisation energies." 13:58 < kanzure> 6165 molecules, it produced atomisation energies within 1 per cent 13:58 < kanzure> of the true value. That is comparable to the accuracy of 13:58 < kanzure> mathematical approximations of the Schrödinger equation, which work 13:58 < kanzure> but take longer to calculate as molecules get bigger (Physical 13:59 < kanzure> Review Letters, [16]DOI: 10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.058301)." 13:59 < kanzure> "The algorithm found solutions in a millisecond that would take these 13:59 < kanzure> earlier methods an hour. "Instead of having to wait years to screen 13:59 < kanzure> http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.058301 13:59 < kanzure> lots of new molecules, you might have to wait weeks or a month,"" 13:59 -!- SolG [Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:59 < kanzure> Fast and Accurate Modeling of Molecular Atomization Energies with Machine Learning 13:59 < kanzure> http://prl.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v108/i5/e058301 14:00 < kanzure> "The problem of solving the molecular Schrödinger equation is mapped onto a nonlinear statistical regression problem of reduced complexity. Regression models are trained on and compared to atomization energies computed with hybrid density-functional theory. Cross validation over more than seven thousand organic molecules yields a mean absolute error of ∼10  kcal/mol. Applicability is demonstrated for the prediction of molecular atomization p 14:00 < kanzure> so their regression model is some approximation of a solved Schrödinger equation 14:02 < kanzure> the regression model is probably some hundred-term beast 14:08 < kanzure> http://arxiv.org/abs/1109.2618 14:56 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:58 < kanzure> hi chris_99 14:58 < kanzure> are you looking for uk dna synthesis options 14:59 < chris_99> hey 14:59 < chris_99> yes i am 14:59 < chris_99> do you know of any? 15:00 < kanzure> nope, i just order online or do it myself 15:00 < chris_99> where do you order from though? 15:00 < kanzure> idt 15:01 < chris_99> cool thanks 15:01 < chris_99> what sort of things do you make? 15:01 < kanzure> http://www.invitrogen.com/site/us/en/home/Products-and-Services/Applications/Cloning/gene-synthesis.html?CID=fl-genesynthesis 15:02 < kanzure> software, hardware, lab equipment 15:02 -!- jmil [~jmil@2607:f470:8:3148:9023:edf0:f5cb:8dca] has quit [Quit: jmil] 15:02 < chris_99> nice :) 15:04 < kanzure> wow what? $0.35/bp? prices are going up :/ 15:04 < kanzure> "1.8 kb in 7 business days" 15:04 < kanzure> that's horrible 15:05 < chris_99> what kinds of things have you had synthesed, i'm curious what kind of things you can do using this technique 15:05 < kanzure> i haven't synthesized dna lately, but last time i did i was copying some of erik winfree's work 15:06 < chris_99> another guy i need to read more about, what was that? 15:07 < kanzure> who are you? 15:07 < chris_99> a computer scientist 15:07 < kanzure> can i possibly convince you to work on diybio-related software 15:08 < chris_99> possibly yeah, i'm very new to biology mind 15:08 < archels> guerilla recruiting 15:08 < kanzure> chris_99: not all the problems are related to biology directly; there's a lot of dumb stuff that needs to get fixed 15:09 < kanzure> like svg-based microfluidic software 15:09 < chris_99> if you can point me to some things that need doing i'm certainly interested 15:10 < kanzure> another thing: english-based grammar/parsing of biology protocols into a standard format 15:10 < kanzure> or some sort of representation. 15:11 < chris_99> a friend of mine is actually involved in linguistics 15:11 < chris_99> (computational) 15:12 < kanzure> the SVG stuff would be very helpful; there's no reason everyone should be using $20,000/seat software to draw lines and shit 15:12 < kanzure> but there does need to be a basic library of components that can be rendered into a final design 15:13 < chris_99> what kind of things would you need to do with the SVG stuff specifically? 15:13 < kanzure> some sort of input for describing a final design, then translating that into a rendered image (pretty simple i guess) 15:13 < kanzure> i've been meaning to do this since forever but it's just a matter of manpower/time 15:13 < kanzure> it's a really simple program in theory 15:14 < kanzure> chris_99: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/ 15:15 < chris_99> thanks, i'll have a read through those and see if i can do anything. i'm just thinking, have you heard of inkscape, because you could base something on that 15:15 < kanzure> yes i use inkscape 15:15 < kanzure> i'd rather not use GUI tools though 15:15 < kanzure> there's no reason we can't do VLSI for microfluidics 15:15 < kanzure> erm, verilog-type stuff 15:16 < chris_99> wait, by SVG, what do you mean exactly 15:16 < kanzure> the file format 15:16 < chris_99> ah ok 15:16 < kanzure> right? 15:16 < chris_99> yeah, i was wondering whether you meant something else for a second 15:16 < chris_99> well, GPUs should be great for this 15:17 < chris_99> and easier to get hold of than FPGAs etc. 15:17 < kanzure> observe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-vJ0Y_HtFY&feature=related 15:17 < chris_99> oohhhhhh! 15:18 < chris_99> this is something i read about ages ago, in an old tommorows world book 15:18 < chris_99> about how you could create logic gates 15:18 < chris_99> using fluidonics 15:18 < chris_99> i've never seen anything like that before though in a video :) 15:19 < kanzure> i've been working on a microfluidic dna synthesizer 15:20 < chris_99> can you explain how that works in lay-mans terms? 15:20 < kanzure> no 15:20 < kanzure> erm, yes.. what would you like to know 15:21 < kanzure> this is a slightly ooler video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1fEHLarRZk 15:21 < kanzure> *cooler 15:21 < chris_99> forgive me as i know nothing about dna synthesis really. so given certain chemicals you can actually create strands of dna? 15:21 < kanzure> yes 15:21 -!- elmom [~elmom@hoas-fe3ddd00-25.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:21 < kanzure> this is called oligonucleotide synthesis 15:22 < kanzure> there are a few different methods for chemical synthesis of oligos 15:22 < chris_99> and you could theoretically create anything from partsdatabase? 15:22 < kanzure> phosphoramidite chemistry, phosphite chemistry.. etc. 15:22 < kanzure> urhm, well, you're getting ahead of yoursel 15:22 < kanzure> *yourself 15:22 < kanzure> this is just to build the raw molecule. 15:23 < chris_99> ah, so you then have to combine molecules somehow? 15:23 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/ has some info on oligonucleotide synthesis 15:23 < chris_99> cheers 15:23 < kanzure> well, you can if you want, that's another method 15:24 < kanzure> because of low accuracy of oligo synthesis, some people just combine smaller fragments of dna molecules into larger molecules using a ligation method 15:24 < kanzure> so you ligate (concatenate) two strings together 15:24 < kanzure> in those scenarios, you use a molecule library and select which item from the library you want to add to the growing molecule you're creating 15:25 < kanzure> so if your library items are 100 base pairs each, then for a full library you need 4^100 molecules 15:25 < kanzure> i'm pretty sure this number is only slightly less than the total number of atoms in the universe 15:26 < chris_99> haha 15:26 -!- elmom [~elmom@hoas-fe3ddd00-25.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:26 < chris_99> so what kind of system would you need to take them from your system and ligate them 15:26 < kanzure> what are you asking 15:28 < chris_99> sorry, how do they make the dna sequences from partsdb 15:28 < chris_99> is what i mean 15:28 < kanzure> what is partsdb 15:29 < chris_99> sorry parts registry http://partsregistry.org/Main_Page 15:29 < kanzure> that's just biobricks.. those sometimes work, but it doesn't really matter 15:29 < kanzure> they export a file format and have the dna sequence in the file somewhere 15:29 < yashgaroth> those sequences are already made, you don't need to synthesize them every time 15:29 < kanzure> but in actuality i think they just ship a book to their igem member groups 15:30 < kanzure> and the book has physical samples attached on each page. 15:30 < chris_99> oh cool :) 15:30 < kanzure> not really 15:31 < chris_99> is there anything cool that you would recommend i could get synthesised? 15:31 < kanzure> do you have a lab? 15:31 < chris_99> not at the moment 15:31 < kanzure> so.. you want to pay $10k to synthesize something.. why? 15:32 < kanzure> you should just spend that $10k on building a lab 15:32 < chris_99> oh i didn't realise it would be that expensive 15:32 < kanzure> $0.35/bp 15:32 < kanzure> and i guess they are only allowing 1.8 kbp at a time (yikes) 15:32 < chris_99> ah 15:32 < kanzure> yashgaroth: you know, i didn't know they were limiting to such small ragments 15:33 < kanzure> fragments 15:33 < yashgaroth> oh totally 15:33 < kanzure> i know they have sequencing costs and they are probably ligating some parts of it together, but still.. 15:33 < yashgaroth> except genes, most stuff in bacteria doesn't need to be too long anyway 15:34 < kanzure> eh? damn it i want a frequency/histogram chart 15:34 < kanzure> from what i recall most gene-encoding proteins that are of interest are <30kbp 15:34 < chris_99> nice talking to you guys, gotta dash 15:34 < kanzure> but usually at least 1kbp 15:34 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:34 < yashgaroth> yes, and still much longer than regulatory elements 15:34 < yashgaroth> I meant aside from genes it's all short stuff 15:35 < kanzure> sure 15:35 < kanzure> this shouldn't be too hard to do; download the genes/sequences from ncbi and draw a chart of their relative lengths 15:35 < kanzure> and then do that across a few bacteria, a few mammals.. 15:35 < kanzure> delinquentme: there's your paper. 15:35 < kanzure> probably an afternoon of coding at most 15:36 < kanzure> and probably done before, but who cares 15:36 < yashgaroth> well, if I had to guess a rough midpoint, maybe...400 residues as the average 15:36 < yashgaroth> a few really small and really big ones, but most enzyme monomers are very roughly that size 15:36 < kanzure> oh also, pdb viewers in webgl 15:36 < kanzure> http://www.macresearch.org/protein-ribbon-models-webgl 15:37 < kanzure> haha.. an html5/chemistry startup? http://web.chemdoodle.com/ bizarre 15:37 < roksprok> so i have a newb question, is molecular biology to the point where a desired gene can be synthesized and inserted anywhere in a desired chromosome? 15:37 < yashgaroth> no 15:38 < kanzure> there are many ways of "inserting" 15:38 < kanzure> if you mean, insert it and then synthesize the whole genome from scratch... 15:38 < yashgaroth> there's some work with zinc-finger nucleases to get site specificity, but it's nowhere near "put it in position 3,543,456 of chromosome 7" 15:38 * kanzure nods 15:38 < yashgaroth> usually you don't need to place it in a specific location, thankfully 15:39 < kanzure> or sometimes you just need a temporary plasmid 15:39 < roksprok> ok, so when you hear for example, http://www.physorg.com/news194539934.html 15:39 < yashgaroth> yeah, you can have a plasmid that operates without needing to integrate, or there's some that can go to a known chrom. location (most of the time) 15:39 < roksprok> where they put spider genes into a goat 15:40 < kanzure> 1) stop reading the news 15:40 < yashgaroth> in that case, as long as the insert gets somewhere into the genome, it'll work 15:40 < roksprok> kanzure: I am trying, but it is a hard habit to break 15:40 < roksprok> yashgaroth: thanks that makes sense 15:41 < kanzure> science news is so weird. 15:41 < yashgaroth> ofc. making a whole organism with the gene is a lot harder, but still possible 15:42 < roksprok> and this is all under the umbrella of 'molecular biology' as far as finding textbooks and such? 15:42 < roksprok> kanzure: agreed, i am actually trying to eliminate most news/magazine media from my life 15:42 < yashgaroth> germline genetic engineering isn't specifically in your general textbooks, but the principles are 15:42 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-37-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:43 < kanzure> there's probably a textbook about that 15:43 < yashgaroth> yeah but it's probably put out by springer 15:43 < kanzure> i should put my biology book collection back online 15:44 < kanzure> libgenesis has lots of biology stuff 15:44 < roksprok> would this work? Introduction to Genetic Engineering 15:44 < roksprok> http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Genetic-Engineering-Desmond-Nicholl/dp/0521615216/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329090221&sr=1-1 15:44 < kanzure> pick something that you don't have to buy. 15:45 < roksprok> i wasn't planning on buying it, i just use amazon to find the title i want before i go off searching for it 15:45 < yashgaroth> looks like an alright overview, but you still need protocols 15:46 < yashgaroth> what are you trying to do? and in what organism 15:46 < roksprok> would openwetware have enough? 15:46 < kanzure> http://protocol-online.org/ is an ok starting point, but we seriously need to make something better 15:46 < kanzure> no openwetware has like a fraction of a fraction of a percent of protocols 15:46 < yashgaroth> man bioxplorer used to be so awesome for bio textbooks back before it got neutered 15:47 < roksprok> yashgaroth: nothing at the moment i am more interested in the neuroscience area but I would like to have a solid foundation so i can know what is possible/the general techniques/ that kind of stuff 15:47 < kanzure> if you want to actually practice techniques i suggest you go hook up with your local community college 15:48 < yashgaroth> well, 'molecular biology of the cell' is always a good recommendation there, I wouldn't delve deeper til you've read it 15:48 < roksprok> i took a lab course where we did stuff like inserting plasmids into bacteria 15:48 < roksprok> and then feeding the bacteria to c elegens 15:48 < kanzure> is there a follow-up class? 15:49 < roksprok> not really a lab class, at least not one i could take 15:49 < roksprok> they are all part of the 'master's of biotechnology' program 15:50 < roksprok> that people who are not in the program can not register for 15:50 < kanzure> that sucks 15:51 < roksprok> yea i was not too pleased with college in general 15:52 < kanzure> isn't this like, one of the highly-skilled-areas that you're supposed to be able to learn from college? 15:52 < yashgaroth> pfft I never learned anything new in class 15:55 < yashgaroth> college is only good for getting high and having journal access 15:55 < kanzure> incidentally, this is what singularityu should teach 15:55 < kanzure> or my would-be transhumanist bootcamp 15:55 < roksprok> yashgaroth: i will agree with you on that 15:56 < roksprok> kanzure: what type of things does singularityu teach? isn't it like business development stuff? 15:56 < kanzure> no 15:56 < kanzure> it's more like.. vague lectures about how awesome synthetic biology is 15:56 < kanzure> vague lectures about how awesome 3d printing is 15:56 -!- Steel_ [81a1c9eb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.161.201.235] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:56 < kanzure> vague lectures about how awesome peter diamandis is 15:57 < Steel_> He's awesome for my resume. 15:57 < Steel_> :V 15:57 < roksprok> thats not good, in general i've been a bit frustrated with the amount of ethics stuff i get when i search for transhumanist stuff 15:57 < yashgaroth> there's quite a lot of planning for superintelligent AIs, and not much on planning how to make them 15:57 < Steel_> roksprok: I have a fairly conclusive list of the ethics stuff, so you can make a filter based on ignoring those if you want 15:57 < kanzure> roksprok: sorry about that 15:57 < Steel_> it's in the philosophy subforum 15:58 < roksprok> Stee|: thanks i will take a look 15:58 < kanzure> stop pimping your forum.. 15:58 < eudoxia> but it's cool 15:58 < kanzure> um.. 15:58 < Steel_> kanzure: is this a 'stop pimping or ban'? :P 15:58 < yashgaroth> think of it as the hplusroadmap forum 15:58 < uniqanomaly> It's almost like those who can't do something work on ethics of that thing 15:59 < Steel_> I like the parable of the dragon 15:59 < kanzure> uniqanomaly: not even that.. people who claim to believe in transhumanist ideas, just do ethics anyway 15:59 < Steel_> and there's some useful stuff for getting support from the religious 15:59 < yashgaroth> and all this shit about animal uplifting, it's like, who gives a flying fuck 15:59 < eudoxia> yeah seriously 15:59 < eudoxia> "Rights for Non-Human Persons Program" 15:59 < kanzure> the sad truth is that the majority of prior transhumanists have been insufficiently militant about how serious they are 15:59 < yashgaroth> am I obliged to make all fruit flies sentient? 15:59 < yashgaroth> it keeps me up at night guys 15:59 < kanzure> the extropian principles are neat but only if you really believe in making it happen 16:00 < roksprok> Stee|: should people really worry about getting support from the religious when we don't even have support from a lot of nonreligious? 16:00 < Steel_> roksprok: I think there's a lot of previous religious sentiment IN the non-religious 16:00 < sylph_mako> Rights for AIs => Immediate human economic irrelevance. 16:00 < Steel_> or at least religious ethics roots to the belief system 16:00 < eudoxia> we should start pandering to the trendy pseudoskeptics at RationalWiki 16:00 < kanzure> sylph_mako: not really.. economics doesn't matter in the scheme of things 16:00 < eudoxia> then focus on religions 16:00 < kanzure> rationalwiki sounds like a lesswrong thing, avoid 16:00 < Steel_> rationalwiki makes fun of lesswrong actually 16:01 < kanzure> lesswrong makes fun of itself too, so what 16:01 < Steel_> conceded 16:01 < uniqanomaly> sylph_mako: AIs dont even need rights, corporations have enough rights for AIs to do stuff 16:01 < roksprok> and i'm pretty sure lesswrong makes fun of rationalwiki right back 16:01 < kanzure> yashgaroth: i think their point is that "rights" are important and that somehow non-human-rights means that when you become non-human, you will still have rights 16:01 < kanzure> yashgaroth: unfortunately this requires you to think that 'rights' are real physical things, not just wishywashy politics 16:01 < Steel_> Using rawls philosophy made it simple to me :P 16:02 < kanzure> my cells operate on physical laws, not politics 16:02 < yashgaroth> yeah but it's still a massive circlejerk 16:02 < kanzure> animal uplifting? yeah of course 16:02 < Steel_> I think the most interesting thing that comes out lw is ways to approach people with biases ABOUT transhumanism. ie using what LW focuses on as a tool. 16:02 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:02 < Steel_> except that doesn't work most of the time 16:03 < Steel_> I stopped going there regularly after I found this channel 16:03 < kanzure> Steel_: it's really just a siai propaganda tool 16:03 < yashgaroth> I'm all for rights for AI and sapient animals, but debating it among transhumanists just wastes time 16:04 < yashgaroth> kanzure: lesswrong is? 16:04 < kanzure> yes 16:04 < Steel_> I wonder what Sing University's take is. 16:04 < kanzure> on what 16:04 < Steel_> Profit/Loss 16:05 < kanzure> on what 16:05 < Steel_> how much money do they make on their courses 16:05 < kanzure> $25,000 per student, but most are subsidized 16:05 < yashgaroth> jesus, whose cocaine does that pay for 16:05 < kanzure> they had 80 students in one of their 2010 sessions? 16:05 < Steel_> Right, but what does their financial statement look like. 16:05 < kanzure> not sure 16:05 < kanzure> the point is: it's a lot of money to hear about how awesome 3d printing is 16:06 < Steel_> is Sing U a nonprofit? 16:06 < kanzure> no 16:06 < Steel_> Hahaha, Diamandis you cad. 16:06 < yashgaroth> did you expect any different 16:06 < Steel_> The dude is hilarious. 16:06 < kanzure> it is very very much a commercial operation 16:07 < Steel_> How does SIAI justify begging for money? >_> 16:07 < kanzure> what? 16:07 < yashgaroth> 'if we don't sit around daydreaming about AI, who will?' 16:07 < Steel_> isn't SU associated with SIAI? 16:07 < kanzure> no 16:07 < eudoxia> it doesn't, bored Silicon Valley engineers are more than willing to give away millions for a fantasy 16:07 < Steel_> oh, my bad 16:07 < kanzure> it is not related to SU at all 16:08 < Steel_> jesus christ. 16:08 < Steel_> that 25k is easily undercuttable >_> 16:08 < kanzure> yep.. SU is pretty sick 16:08 < kanzure> not really.. they are selling a premium thing there, 16:08 < kanzure> "the ability to connect with people who can afford to spend $25k" 16:08 < mag1strate> what is SU? 16:08 < kanzure> http://singularityu.org/ 16:09 < kanzure> Steel_: nobody would spend $10k to go to transhumanist bootcamp where you learn how to actually do these things 16:09 < kanzure> all you guys would love it, 16:09 < Steel_> kanzure: Nah, but they would to meet the people who are actually implementing them now instead of talking about it. 16:09 < Steel_> You have name brand, dude 16:09 < kanzure> but frankly you are all broke. 16:09 < Steel_> I won't be shortly :V 16:10 < Steel_> And then I will appease your issues with my by throwing money at people to do projects 16:10 < Steel_> or something 16:10 < Steel_> *with me 16:11 < mag1strate> I think this place would be pretty cool just to have the connections 16:11 < mag1strate> I mean if you really get to meet the people and go to the places that they say 16:11 < mag1strate> that might be a benefit 16:11 < Steel_> Depending if I can raise money through the forum, and what my income statement is like this year, I may fly some people out to san fran with my in october 16:11 < Steel_> *with me 16:12 < Steel_> jesus christ, same typo twice 16:12 < kanzure> um.. why? 16:12 < kanzure> it's pretty cheap to go to sf on your own 16:12 < kanzure> $250 for a roundtrip.. who cares, that's like an expensive meal 16:12 < Steel_> because singsummit is just as good of a place to meet other dudes as possible--and to proselytize practical transhumanism 16:12 < kanzure> not really, singsummit is for FAI advocacy 16:12 < Steel_> There's some useful shit there, no? 16:12 < Steel_> even marginal? 16:13 < kanzure> ok so your plan is to fund people to attend the conference 16:13 < kanzure> my recommendation is to go as a speaker- attendance is free then 16:13 < kanzure> or as a volunteer 16:13 < Steel_> that's the goal, the speaker thing 16:13 < Steel_> if not this year then next 16:13 < kanzure> ok.. why? 16:13 < Steel_> I have a couple articles I'd like to write 16:14 < Steel_> shit dude, why do I do anything? To make the pie bigger for everyone, while getting a nice piece for myself 16:14 < mag1strate> Holy shit balls this place is 25k a year? 16:14 < Steel_> not a year 16:14 < Steel_> for like a month 16:14 < mag1strate> ... 16:14 < mag1strate> and they only take 80 people? 16:14 < Steel_> kanzure, know of any good mod/sim projects? I've already talked to yashgaroth about trying to model the electroporation problem (if it's not sufficiently well handled) 16:15 < kanzure> Steel_: it would be helpful if someone was working on open source simulations of rtms, transcranial ultrasound, and cfd of laminar flows in microfluidics 16:15 < kanzure> openfoam is useful but still needs configuration to go do those things 16:16 < kanzure> Steel_: also, it's about 6 weeks iirc 16:16 < Steel_> hmm, I'll be better equipped to handle the vagaries of electromagnetic simulations at some point in the mid-term 16:16 < kanzure> there's the "grad student program "and the "executive program" 16:16 < Steel_> I'm going to have to learn how to do E&M finite element method for work 16:16 < mag1strate> whats the difference? 16:16 < Steel_> one of them charges more and uses more buzzwords/less real words 16:16 < Steel_> and I say this as a huge fan of business academia 16:19 < Steel_> Also, I'm tempted to hunt down some motherfuckers at RPI 16:19 < mag1strate> hmm...they should probably make something for younger people 16:19 < Steel_> our fucking STS department is full of 'b-b-but transhumanism is bad' types 16:19 < kanzure> why? young people don't have money 16:20 < Steel_> mag1strate: Webinar series? 16:20 < mag1strate> their parents do... 16:20 < kanzure> i mean, i agree there should be a transhumanist bootcamp- i'm willing to throw it together- but nobody would be able to pay it 16:20 < Steel_> like spacecamp? 16:20 < kanzure> and their parents wouldn't be convinced 16:20 < Steel_> you'd need shit equivalently cool to spacecamp 16:20 < yashgaroth> computercamp! 16:20 < Steel_> there are computer camps 16:20 < mag1strate> no 16:20 < mag1strate> TRANSHUMANIST BOOT CAMPS 16:20 < Steel_> what does that INVOLVE? 16:20 < mag1strate> TRANSHUMANIST COMPUTER BOOT CAMPS 16:20 < yashgaroth> how about everyone who's under 30 and doesn't have silicon valley money meets up and gets drunk 16:20 < mag1strate> you know...like transhumanism and stuff... 16:20 < Steel_> kanzure, what would you teach at a summer camp and how much would you charge? 16:21 < mag1strate> lol 16:21 < Steel_> yashgaroth: You, me, La Jolla bars, april? 16:21 < eudoxia> I have a feeling transhumanist boot camp would be a shack in the middle of the woods full of computers. After a few weeks they'd kick down the door thinking we're plotting to crack nuclear launch codes 16:21 < yashgaroth> hells yeah steel 16:21 < Steel_> Sweet, anyone else in the SD area to come with? 16:21 < eudoxia> alternatively the accumulated was heat & programmer sweat kills us all 16:21 < kanzure> Steel_: molecular biology, genetic engineering, synthetic biology, analog and digital electronics, lots of software, and machine shop skills 16:21 < mag1strate> I guess, but I believe that it will have more to do with the idea 16:21 < yashgaroth> I have no idea, but we could fly people in 16:22 < Steel_> ehhh, $$ 16:22 < yashgaroth> okay we'll bus them in 16:22 < mag1strate> we could, but do you know of many kids that know what transhumanism is? 16:22 < Steel_> kanzure: Could you show those skills easily in a summer camp, and have people do shit that actually has a visible effect? 16:22 < Steel_> I don't know if this is plausible, but something like insert that stupid glow in the dark dna into drosophilia or something stupid like that? 16:22 < kanzure> unfortunately, "ethics" is cooler 16:22 < yashgaroth> not everyone needs to know every field, as long as we know enough to identify where collaboration would be useful 16:23 < kanzure> well, i do have one way this might work 16:23 < mag1strate> Well I think any transhumanist idea requires collaboration 16:23 < kanzure> at the moment software companies are paying a shitload in recruiting fees 16:23 < kanzure> like $20k/head 16:23 < kanzure> so you could possibly tie it in to that 16:23 < Steel_> That would require it to be a college thing. 16:23 < mag1strate> We can't make it that expensive though... 16:23 < kanzure> mag1strate: no the company pays the $20k 16:23 < mag1strate> oh 16:24 < kanzure> usually 10-20% of their salary 16:24 < kanzure> and no it's not a college thing 16:24 < kanzure> look at hackruiter or thoughtbot's training program 16:24 < kanzure> http://www.hackruiter.com/ 16:25 < kanzure> basically it's "come live with us for a few months and hack on software, oh and get a job later" 16:25 < Steel_> I should try to schmooze my way into Rush Holt's cirle of acquaintances and get us a senator sponsor :P 16:25 < mag1strate> is this for kids? 16:25 < kanzure> mag1strate: it's for anyone who has some programming chops 16:25 < mag1strate> oh 16:26 < Steel_> kanzure: what about government funding? 16:26 < kanzure> i don't want to chase that carrot 16:26 < kanzure> darpa funding is a pain in the butt 16:27 < Steel_> was thinking more DOE 16:27 < yashgaroth> or .mil 16:27 < Steel_> I'll be working on .mil while I"m in dc. 16:27 < kanzure> yes we know you like to talk that up 16:27 < mag1strate> I highly doubt any gov funding 16:27 < mag1strate> would come our way 16:28 < eudoxia> I'm with mag1strate on this one 16:28 < Steel_> I may fail, but I'll try. 16:28 < Steel_> *and get myself put on the same watchlists as Kanzure is on 16:28 < yashgaroth> well goddamnit what about all these rich fucks in silicon valley then 16:28 < mag1strate> THe cool guys watchlist 16:28 < roksprok> didn't halcyon molecular get gov funding? 16:28 < roksprok> or some type of equipment grant at least? 16:28 < kanzure> yes halcyon got 1.2M or something from NIH 16:29 < kanzure> and 30M from pete and elon 16:29 < Steel_> yashgaroth: If I can convince my friend to talk to her boss, I'm sure we'd get some funding from there. 16:29 < Steel_> But ugh. 16:29 < yashgaroth> isn't thiel gonna be even richer than balls after that FB IPO? I mean come on 16:30 < kanzure> yes he put in $500k and is getting out $2.3B apparently 16:30 < Steel_> hahahaha 16:30 < yashgaroth> capitalism! 16:30 < kanzure> pete runs "breakout labs" but they want like 20% of your revenue or a very big stake in your intellectual properties 16:31 < Steel_> kanzure, what are your political beliefs again? or do you not talk about them 16:31 < kanzure> what particular beliefs are you interested in 16:31 < Steel_> economic/military/government size, mostly 16:31 < kanzure> for what purpose? 16:32 < Steel_> curiosity? 16:32 < Steel_> you're an interesting person 16:33 < kanzure> no that's not what i mean 16:33 < kanzure> i mean size for doing what 16:33 < Steel_> do you believe in global military intervention/standing military forces in other countries/nuclear stockpiles? 16:33 < kanzure> yes i believe it happens 16:34 < Steel_> what do you believe 'should' happen? 16:34 < eudoxia> I don't know who's trolling who 16:34 < Steel_> I dunno 16:34 < Steel_> I think I get what he's saying 16:34 < Steel_> and sorta agree 16:34 < Steel_> 'this is how it is, why bother being idealistic about this issue'? 16:34 < kanzure> what? 16:34 < kanzure> no not at all 16:34 < kanzure> give me a situation and tell me what my resources are, and i'll consider my strategy 16:35 < Steel_> How would you handle America's situation 16:35 < Steel_> right now 16:35 < kanzure> i don't know what you're asking :( 16:35 < mag1strate> lol thats not an easy question 16:36 < Steel_> Bah :P 16:36 < mag1strate> I think he means how would you handle the current economic criss in the united states 16:36 < mag1strate> or maybe the one in Europe 16:36 < mag1strate> whichever you would know more about 16:38 < kanzure> economic crisis? but we were talking about military strategy i think :( 16:38 < Steel_> it all ties in together no? 16:38 < Steel_> how you know when kanzure is trolling: he uses emotes 16:39 < kanzure> not trolling 16:39 < mag1strate> they are tied 16:39 < mag1strate> because military spending and strategy go together 16:39 < mag1strate> especially with the precidents we use our military with our money 16:40 < mag1strate> sorry not precidents, i meant doctrines 16:40 < mag1strate> that might not make sense 16:40 < mag1strate> what I mean is that different military doctrines require certain costs 16:40 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:41 < kanzure> delinquentme: hey you want a simple paper to do? 16:41 < kanzure> delinquentme: do gene sequence length histograms/frequency comparisons 16:41 < delinquentme> simple paper? 16:41 < kanzure> for various organisms from ncbi 16:41 < mag1strate> those cost can effect the economy of a nation 16:42 < delinquentme> kanzure, so you're saying take assembled gene sequences and essentially plot them 16:42 < kanzure> i think economy is silly and there should be mission-driven sovereign technologically-self-reproducing/forking societies instead 16:42 < kanzure> delinquentme: their lengths 16:42 < kanzure> yes. 16:42 < delinquentme> yeah 16:42 < delinquentme> Hmmm 16:42 < delinquentme> that definitely sounds doable 16:42 < kanzure> i'm sure somenoe has done this before.. but i can't find it, and it's a useful thing to do anyway 16:42 < delinquentme> though just today i got jython accepting input from python 16:43 < Steel_> brb 16:44 < kanzure> hrmm a continuous flow artificial heart 16:45 < yashgaroth> and how to generate electricity from food in an artificial organ to power it 16:45 < kanzure> probably some electron-doning thing involving bacteria 16:45 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/Bug%20juice%20-%20harvesting%20electricity%20with%20microorganisms.pdf 16:45 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/Electricity%20produced%20by%20geobacter%20sulfurreducens%20attached%20to%20electrodes.pdf 16:46 < yashgaroth> hey man, electric eels figured it out a while ago, fuck solar panels when you can plug trees into the grid and get DC power 16:46 < kanzure> geobacter sulfurreducens 16:47 -!- Steel_ [81a1c9eb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.161.201.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:48 < kanzure> um i never checked into this 16:49 < kanzure> but how much would you need to charge, say, a 2500 mA battery 16:49 < yashgaroth> I have no idea, something that complex is all second wave biotech 16:49 < kanzure> "electricigens" oh god 16:50 < kanzure> i guess that's not the worst possible name 16:50 < yashgaroth> electrocytes brah 16:50 < kanzure> hah 16:50 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil] 16:53 -!- Steel_ [81a14926@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.161.73.38] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:53 < Steel_> back 16:55 < mag1strate> So steel did you need help funding adverts for reddit? 16:55 < Steel_> no 16:55 < Steel_> throw your money at projects 16:55 < Steel_> for people in here 16:55 < mag1strate> ok 16:55 < Steel_> or your own 16:56 < mag1strate> new to this channel 16:56 < Steel_> haha 16:56 < mag1strate> I didn't know you guys funded each other sometimes 16:56 < mag1strate> lol 16:56 < Steel_> they don't much 16:56 < Steel_> but kanzure is right about some things 16:56 < Steel_> let me waste my money and not other people's 16:57 < Steel_> it also depends on your budget 16:57 < Steel_> it might be useful to have someone start trying home open manufacturing with titanium 16:57 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-73-240.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:57 < kanzure> there are a lot of projects that are accessible in the <$10k range that people don't do because, well, they aren't aware 16:57 < mag1strate> that would be pretty expensive don't you thing 16:57 < mag1strate> think 16:58 < Steel_> mag1strate: nope 16:58 < Steel_> there are some home SLA setups coming out in march 16:58 < Steel_> and you can do a titanium powder i photopolymer resin 16:58 < Steel_> *in 16:58 < Steel_> then sinter it away 16:58 < eudoxia> the DIY STM is under $100 bucks 16:58 < eudoxia> or something 16:58 < mag1strate> jeez 16:59 < mag1strate> that isn't bad 16:59 < kanzure> however it comes with a caveat that you sorta need to know what you're doing 16:59 < kanzure> which is fine 16:59 -!- Molybdenum [Molybdenum@2002:ad1e:f999::ad1e:f999] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:59 < eudoxia> dammit 16:59 < mag1strate> I think alot of projects require that lol 16:59 < Steel_> mag1strate: the home titanium manufacturing would be worthwhile from a bioactive materials perspective 17:00 < mag1strate> My specialty is with polymers not metals 17:00 < mag1strate> :( 17:00 * delinquentme armitrage III 17:00 < Steel_> mag1strate: it's metals in a polymer 17:00 < kanzure> mag1strate: really... what types of polymers 17:00 < mag1strate> regular monomers so far such as PP PE PC and others 17:01 < mag1strate> mostly with additives 17:01 < mag1strate> and nano spinning 17:01 < kanzure> oh good 17:01 < kanzure> i'm doing some pdms shit soon 17:02 < mag1strate> for what? 17:02 < kanzure> microfluidic devices. 17:03 < mag1strate> Thats cool 17:04 < Steel_> I read some papers on stimulating mixing in microfluidic channels 17:04 < mag1strate> what are you using the devices for? 17:04 < kanzure> dna synthesis 17:04 < kanzure> Steel_: stimulating or simulating 17:04 < Steel_> stimulating 17:04 < kanzure> ok. bumpy edges, weird flow angles ;) 17:04 < Steel_> straight devices 17:06 < Steel_> http://www.cns.gatech.edu/~roman/pdf/loc_06.pdf you prob already have this 17:08 < Steel_> It was a (fruitless) path I chased for part of my thesis 17:09 < Steel_> besides openfoam there's also openlb 17:13 < Steel_> kanzure, are there any devices like emotiv but better out yet? 17:14 < kanzure> you'd have to build it yourself. 17:14 < kanzure> i don't really recommend eeg though 17:14 -!- yash [~f@cpe-24-94-5-223.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:14 < yash> whoops 17:15 < Steel_> why not, kanz? 17:16 < Steel_> p300 is way worse 17:20 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-37-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:28 -!- yash [~f@cpe-24-94-5-223.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:28 < Mokbortolan_> Steel_: emotiv is the best! ... kind of a pain to use though 17:28 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-239-219.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:28 < Steel_> fuck. 17:29 < Steel_> my friend on facebook, when I mentioned transhumanism 17:29 < Steel_> goes 'Never heard of it--looked it up, it's like the singularity?' 17:29 < Steel_> mooootherfucker 17:29 < Steel_> Mokbortolan_: how well trained is your system? 17:29 < yashgaroth> ehh, better than 'oh like from half-life 2?' 17:31 < Steel_> ehhhh 17:33 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-21-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:36 < Steel_> I wonder how hard it would be to make a diy blood tester 17:36 < yashgaroth> testing for what 17:37 -!- ThinkTank [SDr@cpc10-dals18-2-0-cust809.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:37 < Steel_> that's basically a thought--how many things could you test for with a portable device? 17:37 < Steel_> like, how does that scale? 17:38 < yashgaroth> well, if it's something that'll bind to an antibody, you can test as many as you want with a good detector 17:38 < Steel_> another question would be what are the most important things to keep track of if you wanted to monitor the 'most important' for good functioning of the body 17:40 -!- ThinkTank is now known as SDr 17:41 -!- SDr [SDr@cpc10-dals18-2-0-cust809.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:41 -!- SDr [SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:44 < Steel_> a third would be where I could put a permanent blood monitor that wouldn't compromise structural integrity while lifting heavy weights 17:45 < yashgaroth> you mean checking stuff like creatine kinase that gets released from damaged muscle? or checking your cholesterol 17:45 < Steel_> all of the above? :P 17:45 < kanzure> aptamer/antibody assays still require some sort of imaging 17:46 < kanzure> or sometimes you can do electrical detection i guess of binding events 17:46 < kanzure> a better plan would be to just take blood samples at different points 17:46 < yashgaroth> not without shoving a biacore into yourself 17:47 < Steel_> :( 17:47 < yashgaroth> but yes taking timepoint samples would be much easier and accurate-r 17:48 < Steel_> also wondering how hard it would be to synthesize pure flavonoids 17:48 < yashgaroth> stuff like blood pressure and heart rate would be a nice project to DIY though 17:48 < Steel_> http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-02-mitosis-mystery-chromosomes-align-perfectly.html 17:50 < yashgaroth> what flavonoids do you need that you can't get from plants? purity is still tough with organic synthesis 17:50 < Steel_> it's more that the concentration is pretty terrible 17:50 < Steel_> 25% tops, from what I was looking at 17:51 < yashgaroth> so just use 4x as much 17:51 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-239-219.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:51 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:52 < d3nd3> yop 17:52 < d3nd3> yo 17:53 < Steel_> yashgaroth: I'm looking at megadosing 17:53 < Steel_> I'm working on making a flavanoid drink 17:53 < d3nd3> I HAVE A QUESTION 17:53 < d3nd3> "i have a question" <-- no one likes capitals right ? 17:54 < d3nd3> and the likes of people must be respected 17:54 < yashgaroth> better to have extra plant crap in the drink than byproducts of o-chem 17:54 < Steel_> yashgaroth: It's already mostly extracts 17:54 < kanzure> yashgaroth: i can't drink plant! that's like.. drinking vegetables 17:54 < Steel_> 25% anthocyanin, etc. 17:54 < yashgaroth> I feel ya kanzure 17:55 < d3nd3> does anyone know here if there are any patterns in the dna code sequence of G T C A which correlate to the total structure of the organism it codes ... yes so a cell replicates through mitosis ... but how doe sit know if the cell is in the right position ???? and everything is looking perfect from the 3d perspective ? Does anyone know the answer to this fairly straight forward question? 17:55 < kanzure> biology is not straightforward 17:55 < d3nd3> yes it is 17:55 < yashgaroth> what part of that was the "fairly straight forward question" 17:55 < Steel_> looool. 17:56 < Steel_> biology is straightforward in the sense that 'high level complex systems' are straightforward 17:56 < yashgaroth> you must read fast dende, you finished that textbook already? 17:56 < kanzure> i vote we call him "little green" 17:56 < yashgaroth> concur 17:57 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hAGXUPqF8Q 17:57 < d3nd3> the reasons behind my belief are not important ! 17:57 < kanzure> ^little green 17:57 < Steel_> d3nd3: If you're serious about this. 17:57 < Steel_> Don't ask us, try to find the answer yourself first 17:57 < Steel_> Oh god, I sound like my advisor 17:57 < Steel_> fuck. 17:57 < Steel_> someone hand me a shotgun. 17:57 < kanzure> d3nd3: cells are not built in "3D" 17:57 < kanzure> it's more about concentration gradients 18:00 < kanzure> you might be inclined to ask, "what the fuck is a concentration gradient" 18:02 < d3nd3> yes you are right, they are 2d. My bad 18:02 < kanzure> what? 18:02 < kanzure> no gradients can be in any number of spatial dimensios 18:02 < kanzure> *dimensios 18:02 < kanzure> *dimensions 18:03 < d3nd3> whats wrong? are you holding that information close to your center ? 18:03 < d3nd3> have trouble letting go of it ? 18:04 < kanzure> what? 18:04 < yashgaroth> hahahahahaha 18:07 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-239-219.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:07 < Steel_> what the fuck 18:07 < Steel_> are you sure you're english? 18:08 < Steel_> gradients can be in N dimensions, for abstract problems O_o 18:08 < d3nd3> i know the answer to all whats, i just don't have the ability to convert newly created combination of letters into an already existing answer to a what. Besides, i do know that you are having trouble to share your linkage with a newly created pattern of letters to someone who is interested in knowing something about a system which plays the most important role in his life , and doesn't take this topic as a game 18:08 < Steel_> high level control systems use gradients in 10k dimensions heh 18:08 < yashgaroth> I'm not sure he's a human, much less english 18:09 < Steel_> d3nd3, bro, I mean this with the greatest of sincerity: read the fucking book yashgaroth recommended, come here afterward. 18:09 < yashgaroth> seriously, nothing in that book is a waste of time to know 18:10 < Steel_> I'll go through it when I have time :P 18:10 < Steel_> right now it's all vortex mechanics and EM theory for me 18:10 < yashgaroth> it's cool, I'm never gonna read a textbook on the stuff you do 18:11 < d3nd3> you don't feel me. 18:11 < Steel_> d3nd3: Not in the fucking slightest. 18:12 < yashgaroth> dende: I'll help you if you can answer me this question: has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? 18:12 < yashgaroth> you seem the best person to be able to answer that 18:13 < d3nd3> :) 18:15 < Steel_> I can't remember the proper answer to that one, yashgaroth :P 18:15 < yashgaroth> it's too long to post here, but it's good 18:15 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16 < d3nd3> i'll answer you , then you will help me, if you can reply to this answer : english can be understood with words which do not have to be long and connected, if you can not understand a language which is not connected well and does not have long words then you really should not be replying to me at all , since you would clearly have less of what ever it is that you are claiming i have less of in the first instance, Wil 18:17 < kanzure> do you want our help or not? 18:17 < yashgaroth> he's right, I really shouldn't be replying to him :V 18:18 < Steel_> Good lord. 18:18 < kanzure> btw there's many "long words" in biology.. you will have to learn them 18:18 < Steel_> I guess I should retitle my thesis 'building a way to use computer to make a fake computer method of using electricity to print out really small drops' 18:18 < Steel_> or I could call it 'Simulating Electrohydrodynamic Jet Printing via Vortex Rings and Relevant Scaling Laws' 18:18 < Steel_> .... 18:19 < alfalfa> hi 18:19 < alfalfa> whats up 18:19 < yashgaroth> guten tag bro 18:19 < kanzure> Steel_: too simple; the title should be the abstract 18:19 < Steel_> Hahah. 18:19 < eudoxia> The abstract should read "Probably not" 18:20 < Steel_> in reality, I'll prob call it whatever my adviser tells me to call it 18:20 < alfalfa> lol the guys flame about the simpler solution to speaking english? 18:20 < kanzure> alfalfa: nope.. d3nd3 is just mad 18:20 < alfalfa> why? 18:20 < d3nd3> if there are any mature people left in the room 18:20 < d3nd3> does anyone know here if there are any patterns in the dna code sequence of G T C A which correlate to the total structure of the organism it codes ... yes so a cell replicates through mitosis ... but how doe sit know if the cell is in the right position ???? and everything is looking perfect from the 3d perspective ? Does anyone know the answer to this fairly straight forward question? 18:20 < alfalfa> madness is often confused eith excentrism 18:20 < kanzure> we already told you :( 18:21 < yashgaroth> the irony burns 18:21 < kanzure> d3nd3: why do you not like our answers? 18:21 < alfalfa> lol u probably not really telling him, rather blowing up ur chest and pumping ur ego xD 18:22 < d3nd3> they don't want to let go 18:22 < d3nd3> why are they here 18:22 < Steel_> what the fuck 18:22 < d3nd3> i don't understand 18:22 < kanzure> who's ego are you pumping? 18:22 < kanzure> sorry, what?? 18:22 < yashgaroth> how old are you two 18:22 < Steel_> d3nd3: openwetware.org 18:22 < eudoxia> falmoot & alter egos, I see 18:22 < alfalfa> its allways like that... 18:22 < alfalfa> if u ask question here 18:22 < kanzure> yes, we help you to the answer 18:22 < Steel_> Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer. 18:22 < alfalfa> u get big words in ur face lol, rather than explanations 18:22 < kanzure> but you don't ilke the answers.. 18:22 < kanzure> ok maybe you should ask questions to understand the answers 18:22 < yashgaroth> eudoxia: it's actually worse, at least falmot was funny 18:22 < kanzure> do you know what a gradient is? 18:23 < alfalfa> asking me that is your wicked way of disrespecting, kanzure ? 18:23 < kanzure> no? 18:23 < alfalfa> im sure you know oO 18:23 < kanzure> no, i don't know if you know the word 'gradient' 18:23 < kanzure> i am not spychic 18:23 < d3nd3> of course we know what it is 18:23 < kanzure> *psychic 18:23 < d3nd3> we know what everything is 18:23 < alfalfa> so many no's u seem to be in denial of something 18:23 < d3nd3> we just need the linkages 18:24 < alfalfa> if knowledge and science doesnt give a man the right to swagger around then what??? 18:25 < Steel_> d3nd3, I still have no fucking idea what you're asking. 18:25 < kanzure> ok stop pimping your ego :) then you can continue reading 'molecular biology of the cell' 18:25 < alfalfa> niveau of kindergarden is reached huh? .. in other words u saying "NO U THE ONE WITH EGO" 18:25 < alfalfa> i know the language of you "grown ups" 18:25 < alfalfa> its still same emotions 18:25 < alfalfa> just bigger words... 18:25 < kanzure> why are you fighting 18:26 < alfalfa> no real growth took ever place... 18:26 < kanzure> stop fighting 18:26 < d3nd3> stop hurting him* 18:26 < alfalfa> im fighting for a better tomorrow 18:26 < d3nd3> it doesn't feel nice* 18:26 < kanzure> you've spent 5min talking about your ego, this is not interesting to ##hplusroadmap 18:26 < uniqanomaly> tl;dr anyone? 18:26 < d3nd3> hypocrit ! 18:26 < alfalfa> lol he put the same statement 1 min ago there 18:26 < eudoxia> the lobster uploads from Accelerando were more interesting to talk to 18:27 < Steel_> uniqanomaly: Crazy, child, manchild, or not english speaking 18:27 < Steel_> oh yes, possibly lobsters 18:27 < yashgaroth> fuckin' looool 18:27 < uniqanomaly> Steel_: maybe he's uploaded lobster 18:27 < yashgaroth> it's the most cogent theory yet 18:28 < d3nd3> they don't know how the organims are forming 3d structure 18:28 < d3nd3> and can't explain it 18:28 < d3nd3> in skeleton form 18:28 < kanzure> they form 3d structures because of gradients 18:28 < kanzure> not because of a 3d map 18:28 < kanzure> stop asking 18:28 < d3nd3> that is not knowledge 18:28 < d3nd3> that is nothing 18:29 < Steel_> kanzure, what are channel rules on being insulting? 18:29 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/Bacterial%20morphology%20-%20why%20have%20different%20shapes.pdf 18:29 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/Bacterial%20shape.pdfhttp://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/Bacterial%20shape.pdf 18:29 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/To%20shape%20a%20cell%20-%20an%20inquiry%20into%20the%20causes%20of%20morphogenesis%20of%20microorganisms%20-%201990.pdf 18:29 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/The%20selective%20value%20of%20bacterial%20shape.pdf 18:29 < kanzure> read those then complain. 18:30 < d3nd3> i hope that it does not make you feel better each time you pasted each one 18:30 < alfalfa> rofl 18:30 < kanzure> are you here to learn? 18:30 < alfalfa> feels like hes haveing a big troll face now 18:30 < alfalfa> he acts like hes helping , but really he has secret agenda? 18:30 < yashgaroth> guys guys why can't we just teach them the entirety of biology over IRC? 18:30 < Steel_> we have to be being trolled 18:31 < d3nd3> he is his dna. if that makes him a monster. then he has little say in the matter. 18:31 < kanzure> that does not sound transhumanist 18:31 < kanzure> predeterminism? holy fuck guys 18:32 < kanzure> yashgaroth: btw, "To shape a cell" is actually a fun read 18:32 < Steel_> determinism is awesome :D 18:32 < Steel_> though incredibly impractical :P 18:32 < yashgaroth> link? 18:32 < kanzure> yashgaroth: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/To%20shape%20a%20cell%20-%20an%20inquiry%20into%20the%20causes%20of%20morphogenesis%20of%20microorganisms%20-%201990.pdf 18:33 < yashgaroth> not exactly light reading, but I'll take a look 18:34 < d3nd3> secondly, is anyone interested to rocket to the planet Mars with me, if you promise to be mannered and polite around me and that i have natural rights to be the King of the planet. We will teraform the planet , starting first inside a sealed atmosphere, using solid transparent material to allow light through 18:34 < Molybdenum> where did all the trolls come from. 18:36 < eudoxia> I want to believe 18:36 < eudoxia> that they are actually uploaded lobsters 18:36 < Molybdenum> *xfiles theme* 18:36 < d3nd3> i'm quite sick of this planet, not going to list the complete list here, although i'm sure most of you are aware of some things you know is completely inefficent for improving making change as a species 18:37 < eudoxia> so far they fit the lobsters in Accelerando, since they apparently want to go off-planet 18:37 < yashgaroth> dende, what's your opinion on butter sauce? 18:40 < alfalfa> i come with rocket 18:40 < alfalfa> mars house out of glas 18:48 < d3nd3> i don't even have to ask you, i already know how the cells are forming shapes 18:48 < d3nd3> its in the dna, everything is in there, thats the information 18:49 < Steel_> I'm watting so hard you've never watted a wat like this before. 18:49 < Molybdenum> this sounds like the premise of a bad sci-fi comicbook. 18:50 < eudoxia> it's slowly shaping into the plot of a David Zindell novelç 18:50 < eudoxia> I can feel it 18:50 < kanzure> it's very incomplete information, nature fills in the rest because of physics 18:50 < Steel_> eudoxia: The nature of everything is found in the smallest thing, yet not. 18:50 < Steel_> You have to look at it...holistically 18:50 < Steel_> *does math in head* 18:50 < Steel_> *teleports* 18:50 < kanzure> yep pretty much.. 18:50 < Molybdenum> *nanomachines* 18:50 < kanzure> Steel_: don't forget to visit the internet oracle 18:51 < eudoxia> yes... truly 18:51 < Steel_> No, zindell doesn't use nearly as much nanomachines. 18:51 < Steel_> He's all about magic math 18:51 < Steel_> and spirituality in transhumanism 18:51 < d3nd3> that isn't good english, it would be better if you typed with smaller words, more common ones and also make better logic, clearer for others to understand and make sense of what you type 18:51 < eudoxia> the manifold bruh 18:51 < yashgaroth> the answer, its...in...the DNA 18:51 < kanzure> hm? neverness had tons of nano-related biology machine things 18:51 < kanzure> yashgaroth: have you read neverness? 18:51 < yashgaroth> nope 18:51 < kanzure> i found it somewhat more entertaining than accelerando 18:51 < eudoxia> it starts getting sort of ehh after The Broken God though 18:51 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/docs/Zindell,%20David%20-%20Neverness%20(v1.0).txt 18:52 < Molybdenum> he keeps making the weird comments about word usage, and it keeps making me think of NewSpeak from 1984... 18:52 < eudoxia> the series as a whole I mean 18:52 < kanzure> yashgaroth: it's basically a lot of the same stolen scifi that orion's arm was based on 18:53 < yashgaroth> oh cool 18:53 < eudoxia> but with more math 18:53 < eudoxia> and less monopoles everywhere 18:53 < yashgaroth> aww I hate math 18:53 < delinquentme> ^^^ 18:53 < delinquentme> GOOD NIGHT! 18:53 < eudoxia> don't worry, it's homeopathic "feel the interconnectedness" math 18:53 < yashgaroth> that's why I got into bio 18:53 < delinquentme> bc math is cool 18:53 < delinquentme> I've got quite a backlog of things to read as it is, but it's in the queue 18:56 < d3nd3> don't waste your knowledge, if that is what you believe you have 18:56 < d3nd3> make use of it 18:59 < mag1strate> yashgaroth: YOU DON'T LIKE MATH?!? 19:00 < yashgaroth> omgz 19:01 < kanzure> "Yes, chance. What chance does a young fool of a pilot have of 19:01 < kanzure> discovering the secret of life? Where will you look? In some safe place, 19:01 < kanzure> no doubt, where you've no chance of finding anything at all." 19:01 < kanzure> "Perhaps I'll search where bitter and jaded master pilots are afraid to." 19:01 < kanzure> "And where would that be?" he asked. "Beneath the folds of your mother's robes?" 19:02 < kanzure> ouch. 19:02 < eudoxia> Soli was a bro 19:02 < kanzure> a brogrammer 19:03 -!- srangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:03 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:03 -!- srangewarp is now known as strangewarp 19:12 < mag1strate> yashgaroth: JK btw 19:12 < yashgaroth> it's not like math raped me when I was a child, I just don't like doing it for fun 19:15 < mag1strate> lol yeah I know what you mena 19:15 < mag1strate> mean 19:15 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-21-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:16 < yashgaroth> I got through calc up to multivariable, and then I was like 'wait this is why we invented computers' 19:17 < mag1strate> Yeah I know what you mena 19:17 < mag1strate> mena 19:17 < mag1strate> shit 19:17 < mag1strate> i cant spell 19:26 -!- ivan` [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:26 -!- AlonzoTG [~atg@dsl092-168-049.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:26 -!- ivan` [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:26 -!- AlonzoTG [~atg@dsl092-168-049.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:27 -!- foucist [~foucist@ps14150.dreamhost.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:27 -!- foucist [~foucist@ps14150.dreamhost.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:29 -!- ziyadb [u4806@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jaswujouiydopacy] has quit [Ping timeout: 249 seconds] 19:29 -!- ziyadb [u4806@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dckmosmqtkautbby] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:40 -!- Molybdenum [Molybdenum@2002:ad1e:f999::ad1e:f999] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:40 -!- SDr [SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has quit [] 19:57 -!- _sol_ [Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:59 -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:03 < d3nd3> when will you fucking humans be happy and satisfied with what you have and who you are 20:03 < yashgaroth> :3 20:04 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-175-14.shv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:05 < d3nd3> i thought this movement was about that ? but it seems that we even fail at that too, since we can't even stop being so selfish 20:06 < kanzure> are you reading those papers/documents? 20:06 < d3nd3> i read everything, and how old will i be when i have done that ? 20:06 < yashgaroth> 12? 20:06 < kanzure> 0xFFFF3141 years old 20:07 < d3nd3> do you believe you know the best path to enlightenment, or transcendalment ? 20:07 < kanzure> transdonglement? 20:07 < yashgaroth> transcendanglement 20:07 < d3nd3> is this a mockery, or for the lolz 20:08 < kanzure> d3nd3: what is your native language? we need to speak to you in it 20:08 < d3nd3> namekian 20:09 < d3nd3> or rather, namekenese 20:09 < d3nd3> haha 20:09 < d3nd3> you don't know it 20:09 < kanzure> hiindi? 20:09 < kanzure> *hindi 20:09 < d3nd3> since i am the only namek on this planet 20:10 < kanzure> kashmiri? 20:10 < yashgaroth> urdu 20:10 < kanzure> punjabi? 20:10 < d3nd3> i don't think that you are achieving anything here 20:10 < d3nd3> i am serious 20:10 < strangewarp> d3nd3: So long as we are transhumanists, we will be simultaneously appreciative of what we have, and unsatisfied that we don't have what we don't have. Selfishness may or may not be persent, but is irrelevant, since the goal is to create technology that would help everyone. Age doesn't matter; what matters is being able to fucking chill and be concretely productive in ways that are verifiably true. 20:10 < kanzure> i am trying to communicate with you 20:10 < kanzure> strangewarp: don't feed the trolls 20:10 < d3nd3> come stop wasting your time, come join myself and alfalfa on bigger and better things 20:10 < strangewarp> (And I know I am a bit of a hypocrite saying that, since I'm the token arts guy..) 20:10 < strangewarp> kanzure: aw okay :( 20:10 < d3nd3> strangewarp: please feed the trolls 20:11 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ 20:11 < yashgaroth> heh 20:11 < Helleshin> out comes the big stick 20:11 * d3nd3 dodges 20:12 <@kanzure> seriously, what's your language? 20:13 < d3nd3> strangewarp: thank you for your opinion, but just like my statement which you tried so desperately to challenge with a thrust of righteousness. my opinion was never fixed, it was put there to raise awareness, it was never incorrect just as your opinion put there is not incorrect too , but actually i think you already know that, i type it just in case you don't know it, strangewarp there are many small improvements w 20:15 -!- d3nd3 was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [d3nd3] 20:16 < alfalfa> lol 20:16 < sylph_mako> Talking without conviction. Sure ogre sign right there. 20:18 < strangewarp> that is one heck of a crazy backlog 20:27 <@kanzure> yep 20:28 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:29 < d3nd3> please update the join note with : be chilled else you are not welcome here , sorry i never took that for granted since i am not a closed minded sheep as most of your other "Followers" .. i use that word because it feels like you own this movement, when really its nothing to do with inidividuals 20:31 -!- Steel_ [43f624a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.246.36.165] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:01 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-175-14.shv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:05 < d3nd3> do as you are told ! 21:07 < Steel_> what the fuck 21:07 < d3nd3> Steel_: is that justified? 21:07 < Steel_> yes. 21:07 < Steel_> yes it is. 21:08 < Steel_> yashgaroth: what did I miss? 21:08 < yashgaroth> nothing new 21:08 < d3nd3> yashgaroth: update me too please 21:08 -!- Molybdenum [Molybdenum@173-30-249-153.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:08 < yashgaroth> kanzure's a good man, I'd have banned them by now 21:08 < Steel_> did d3nd3 say anything else amusing? 21:09 < yashgaroth> maybe, but it's too incoherent to tell 21:09 < d3nd3> yashgaroth: you should be ashamed no? thats an inevitable conclusion of your sentence ask it many times and you will see , its very important that you define the actions you can make , else you really are not in control of your life and being 21:09 < yashgaroth> ^basically just shit like that 21:09 < Steel_> he's gotta be running it through a jibberish generator 21:10 < yashgaroth> we've confirmed that they are actually uploaded lobster brains 21:10 < Steel_> someone get stross on the phone stat 21:10 < d3nd3> the chemicals do not allow you to be humble lol 21:11 < yashgaroth> idk, sometimes it's just amusing but then they get offended at having to learn things and it degenerates quickly 21:12 < Steel_> bah 21:12 < yashgaroth> I'm guessing they're 13-14, tops 21:12 < Molybdenum> or severely inebriated. 21:13 < roksprok> i'm pretty sure d3nd3 has schizophrenia 21:13 < roksprok> namekian is something from dragonball z 21:13 < roksprok> and thats basically what schizophreniacs do, pick up random stuff am form it into an overarching narrative 21:14 <@kanzure> roksprok: d3nd3 is "little green" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hAGXUPqF8Q 21:14 < d3nd3> our freedom is being restricted from us, we are not being who we were born to be, but yet we don't give up trying. we want to be able to speak freely and not have the logic which we put into text misinterpreted and for emotions to be fiddled with by majority of people who sit safely in exactly that, the masses. 21:14 < yashgaroth> this would be a classic case study, if I gave a shit 21:14 -!- klafka [~textual@c-71-204-150-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:14 < Molybdenum> I didn't see the namekian thing at all. 21:15 < roksprok> suspicions about an outside conspiracy? 21:16 < Steel_> brb 21:16 -!- Steel_ [43f624a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.246.36.165] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:26 -!- ianmathwiz7 [~chatzilla@x-134-84-100-61.reshalls.umn.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:27 <@kanzure> hi ianmathwiz7 21:29 -!- ianmathwiz7 [~chatzilla@x-134-84-100-61.reshalls.umn.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:30 < d3nd3> my face is down , i am a sufferer, yes, and i needed you to say it to me . -.- more fiddling pl0x 21:30 -!- ianmathwiz7 [~chatzilla@x-134-84-100-61.reshalls.umn.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:31 < d3nd3> thats how you summon such lovely emotions, aww doesn't it feel nice to have someone who is speaking such complimentary things to you ? 21:31 < d3nd3> we are cool guys, you and i, thats why we type to each others 21:31 < Stee|> ianmathwiz7, check your pms :P 21:31 -!- roksprok [~Zac@74.83.205.124] has quit [Quit: roksprok] 21:35 < ianmathwiz7> I don't have any pms 21:36 < ianmathwiz7> or PMS, for that matter :P 21:38 < Stee|> on irc 21:38 < Stee|> I sent you one 21:44 <@kanzure> ianmathwiz7: private message 21:44 < ianmathwiz7> kanzure: yeah, I know what it means 21:45 < Stee|> #lw is discussing how to break down telling stories for socialization into a series of premeditated story/rulesets 21:45 <@kanzure> um.. what 21:45 <@kanzure> who cares 21:50 < Molybdenum> regarding...? 21:51 < Stee|> think what PUAs do, except for conversation. 21:51 < Molybdenum> Barf. 21:53 < Molybdenum> I feel terrible for women that PUA garbage works on. 21:53 <@kanzure> conversation isn't that hard to do 21:53 <@kanzure> if you need PUA rules, you're doing something wrong 21:53 <@kanzure> 1) hang out with mroe people 21:53 <@kanzure> 2) get drunk with them 21:53 <@kanzure> 3) hope they are infectious and you get better 21:58 <@kanzure> on second thought this is probably a bad plan. 21:59 < Stee|> hahaha 21:59 < Stee|> if you're in dc after I move, we'll go drinking 21:59 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:59 < Molybdenum> i need to get out of missouri :| 22:00 < yashgaroth> are you at least in STL? 22:00 < Molybdenum> nope :| 22:00 < yashgaroth> I'm so sorry 22:00 < Molybdenum> that's about ...3 hr away. 22:00 <@kanzure> why are you in missouri 22:01 < Molybdenum> school 22:01 < Molybdenum> no other reason to ever come out to this pit 22:04 < strangewarp> The very fact that PUA exists means that even men who despise PUA will be treated as though they are secretly using PUA, even when they aren't trying to PU anyone 22:04 < strangewarp> Thereby I despise it doubly 22:05 -!- _sol_ [Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07 <@kanzure> whatever happened to the andrew hessel bieber video 22:10 <@kanzure> aha 22:10 <@kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRbCIduMGb0 22:18 < jrayhawk_> d3nd3: You seem to be running up against the intuitive limitations of thinking of DNA as the sole determinant of expression. 22:18 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:18 <@kanzure> *of function 22:18 -!- Steel_ [43f624a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.246.36.165] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:19 < d3nd3> jrayhawk_: ok thanks 22:19 <@kanzure> hrm, the synthetic biology documentary passed kickstarter http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/637230479/a-documentary-film-about-synthetic-biology 22:20 < jrayhawk_> So, given a sequenced human genome, do you believe you can you produce a human cell? 22:20 -!- jrayhawk_ is now known as jrayhawk 22:20 < yashgaroth> no? 22:21 < d3nd3> yashgaroth: be nice 22:21 -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:21 < yashgaroth> craig venter had a hard enough time making a bacterial cell, which is ~1000x smaller 22:22 < d3nd3> a human embyro stem cell ? 22:22 < d3nd3> i wouldn't think its too difficult 22:22 < jrayhawk> I don't really care; any cell is interesting. 22:23 < yashgaroth> however, if dna synthesis technology keeps up, I could see it being done in 10-15 years 22:23 <@kanzure> a human cell does not start from a genome.. it starts from another cell 22:23 < yashgaroth> same can be said for bacteria 22:24 < d3nd3> in nature it doesn't, but strictly speaking we aren't talking about nature 22:24 < jrayhawk> The trouble is that the RNA is not actually inherently derived from DNA 22:24 < jrayhawk> only *some* of it is. 22:24 < yashgaroth> no all of it is 22:25 <@kanzure> (DNA does not turn itself into a cell.) 22:25 < yashgaroth> hey man, if you can synthesize a human genome, you can find the time to stick it into a cell somehow 22:25 <@kanzure> sure 22:25 < d3nd3> retro viruses can easily do the reverse of transcription and form a dna from an rna 22:26 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: but given a single molecule of DNA, it will not turn into a cell 22:26 < yashgaroth> oh god no, but if you use venter's method of pulling the old chromosome out of the cell and putting in the new ones 22:26 <@kanzure> that's not what they are talking about, yashgaroth 22:26 <@kanzure> 22:20 < jrayhawk_> So, given a sequenced human genome, do you believe you can you produce a human cell? 22:27 < yashgaroth> he said sequenced not synthesized 22:28 < jrayhawk> I should've said "do you believe it's theoretically possible to produce a human cell" 22:28 < jrayhawk> the synthesis step is not interesting for the discussion here 22:29 < d3nd3> synthesis step , but why is the synthesis step even a challenge, its becaus ethe machines are too slow or are they making errors? 22:29 < yashgaroth> err you do need to assume we manage to synthesize a genome, that's the hardest part of producing a human cell 22:29 < d3nd3> lol^^ 22:29 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: i still think you're not talking about the same thing, 22:30 <@kanzure> d3nd3 might be under the belief that you ca use a molecule of DNA to generate a cell 22:30 < jrayhawk> Well, 18 molecules, presumably 22:30 < d3nd3> lets clear it up so we know what each other are talking about, then it leaves no confusion 22:30 <@kanzure> *can use 22:30 <@kanzure> well, tell us d3nd3 22:30 < yashgaroth> 46, though if you're making it from scratch you can have howevermany chromosomes you want 22:31 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: when you say "from scratch" you mean "using a cellular chasis" like venter 22:31 < yashgaroth> yes, that would probably be necessary 22:31 < yashgaroth> or at least, easier than making the entire cell as well 22:32 < d3nd3> many things are possible yes? i played lego when i was younger with bricks, i'm beginnging to realize that biology is much like this, and yet it seems nature has figured out a very efficient method, but i'm not convinced its theonly optiion for building life and we don't always have to hijack natures' processes to form things, we can do it from scratch with the components and knowleedge 22:35 < jrayhawk> So, the real answer is "no, it is impossible to make a human cell with just the genome". Most DNA is not expressed, and what is expressed is controlled by the existing "running state". You need the current RNA, you need the mitochondria, you need the epigenetics, you need the eicosanoids, you need the microdna, you need existing chemical balances 22:36 < jrayhawk> this shit is *really really* complicated. we don't even know how complicated it is. 22:36 < jrayhawk> s/microdna/microrna/ 22:37 < d3nd3> well , yea , but they are not far to be found , hey i give you a little secret, don't take everything all like everyone knows the limits, ppl will constantly keep astonishing us for many many years to come, its an art and really best advice i can give is be imaginative and try out everything :) ... but hey your answer will be answered very soon i hope that u have a nice journey into this field and discover furitful t 22:37 <@kanzure> don't forget the other running state component (physics) 22:40 < Stee|> did d3nd3 ever answer his age? 22:42 < d3nd3> Stee|: this is peronsal information, but age will soon not be such an issue since the power of this technologoy will put me into eternity lol, then i won't remember an age but i bet u will want me always to have one haha, okayo hmm i tell u it" " .. i am 16 22:42 < jrayhawk> oh thank god 22:42 <@kanzure> 16 is too old 22:42 <@kanzure> d3nd3: what about language? 22:43 < alfalfa> swagger swagger 22:43 < d3nd3> Irish, of course 22:44 <@kanzure> an irish pakistani in croydon? 22:44 < yashgaroth> croydon massive represent 22:44 < d3nd3> alfalfa: this hip hop song, name artist? errr forgot her name but y ty 22:44 < d3nd3> no not croydon 22:44 < d3nd3> stop looking at my hostname 22:44 < d3nd3> -.- 22:45 < yashgaroth> crawley? 22:45 < alfalfa> shall we really not remember age then? 22:45 < d3nd3> i am anonymous, i am 99% and we are the majority 22:46 < alfalfa> there is no purpose for it i guess 22:46 < alfalfa> lol we counting age only because we check when we die? 22:46 < d3nd3> na for social ridicule 22:46 <@kanzure> who is ridiculing you 22:47 < alfalfa> kanzure: ur ego? 22:47 < d3nd3> but the rules of this chat . . . you cannot ... be "unchilled" .. and you cannot " philosophize " and you cannot .. the list goes on and on ;) 22:47 <@kanzure> you might be experiencing schizophrenic delusions of prosecution 22:47 < alfalfa> proud much? :D 22:47 < yashgaroth> those words are too big, they will close off again 22:47 < alfalfa> ":D" <--- troll laughing BUhahahaha 22:48 < d3nd3> wait, yash, you are a professional biologist with white apron and big pay slip ... i don't think you should be communicating with self - created trolls who live in basement of mother 22:48 < yashgaroth> haha, now you sound russian 22:49 < alfalfa> "sound" ? 22:49 < yashgaroth> p.s. kanzure is far more accomplished than I am 22:49 < yashgaroth> yes, "basement of mother" 22:49 < yashgaroth> sounds like a russian guy 22:49 < d3nd3> yashgaroth: signs of modesty :: note it ! 22:49 < Stee|> he's still accomplished more than you 22:50 < alfalfa> is accomplished? dont u use "has" there? 22:50 < yashgaroth> nein 22:50 < d3nd3> Stee|: i told you my age boy, that took a certain level of trust and now you just spit it back in my eye, you vermin 22:50 < d3nd3> acomplished is a bit like achieved 22:51 < Stee|> point of the matter is 22:51 < Stee|> I don't think you get to say kanzure is a troll 22:51 < alfalfa> but u use has when u use it with a person 22:51 < d3nd3> Stee|: Okay, your loyalties do him justice ! and me NOTHING ! its well worth it for sticking up for others, but boy don't involved in other business none of urs, he reli ain't worth all that u know 22:51 < alfalfa> if something is about "it" u use is i think 22:52 < Stee|> I'm laughing if you think I'm 'loyal' to kanzure 22:52 <@kanzure> the point is, 16 is already old 22:52 <@kanzure> if you are angry about being old, suck it up 22:52 < alfalfa> why u talking about age lol 22:52 < d3nd3> ha, jealous much , x < y ... mm who is the x and who is the y XD 22:53 < Stee|> wait, kanzure, is this our evening entertainment? 22:53 < yashgaroth> it better be, the new walking dead was underwhelming 22:53 < alfalfa> hmmmmmm 22:53 < alfalfa> HMMMM 22:53 < alfalfa> i think u guys talk too riddled 22:53 < alfalfa> i will help others understand 22:53 <@kanzure> we are not riddled 22:54 < d3nd3> fulfil a role here , translator 22:54 < alfalfa> wait, kanzure, is this our evening entertainment? MEANS: "i am so cool and i just laugh about others" 22:54 < yashgaroth> :D 22:54 < alfalfa> [07:53] <@kanzure> we are not riddled MEANS: "i dont agree because i dont want to be lower on the social ranking system" 22:54 < Stee|> I'm pretty fucking cool, that's true. 22:54 < Stee|> it's not related to my technical achievements tho 22:55 < alfalfa> I'm pretty fucking cool, that's true. MEANS: "i dont care about what others say, im swaggering" 22:55 * d3nd3 applauds 22:55 < Stee|> it's not swagger, it's cuban motion. 22:55 < alfalfa> [07:54] it's not related to my technical achievements tho MEANS: "i achieve stuff and i tell it others to show off" 22:56 * d3nd3 wants more =D 22:56 < alfalfa> [07:55] it's not swagger, it's cuban motion. MEANS: "i just disagree and use funky word to be up in the social ranking system" 22:56 -!- alfalfa was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [alfalfa] 22:56 -!- d3nd3 was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [d3nd3] 22:56 <@kanzure> i grow tired of this.. 22:56 < yashgaroth> +b please 22:56 <@kanzure> well, i'm not sure yet 22:56 <@kanzure> i'm lame i know 22:56 < yashgaroth> you have more faith in humanity than I 22:57 <@kanzure> i doubt it 22:57 < Molybdenum> that made my brain hurt. 22:57 < strangewarp> christ, refuge in social signaling is the most obnoxious way to defer reasonable criticism 22:58 <@kanzure> clearly everyone in here is suffering from small penis syndrome and is trying to compensate 22:58 -!- Steel_ [43f624a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.246.36.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:58 < Molybdenum> That opens a whole new can of worms in my case.... 22:58 <@kanzure> oh are you female 22:59 <@kanzure> then small clit syndrome. sorry. 22:59 < Molybdenum> *chuckles* 23:05 -!- Steel_ [43f624a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.246.36.165] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:09 -!- ianmathwiz7 [~chatzilla@x-134-84-100-61.reshalls.umn.edu] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [SeaMonkey 2.7.1/20120208224119]] 23:14 < Steel_> hmm 23:15 < Steel_> should consolidate biohack and hplusroadmap 23:15 < yashgaroth> also biopunk.org 23:16 < Steel_> yes, well 23:16 < Steel_> I'd like to consolidate their forum 23:17 < Steel_> kanzure, I don't suppose you keep a textpad with everyone's projects 23:19 -!- kvltist [~Kvltist@p5B33EE95.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:48 -!- rkos [~chatzilla@a88-113-156-174.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20120129021758]] 23:54 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-24-94-5-223.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] --- Log closed Mon Feb 13 00:00:08 2012