--- Log opened Wed Feb 15 00:00:11 2012 00:15 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-21-71.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:29 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-62-53.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:06 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:13 -!- noahj [~noah@24.38.182.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:15 -!- qnm [~qnm@2001:44b8:3110:f300:208:9bff:fec0:179a] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:17 -!- qnm [~qnm@2001:44b8:3110:f300:208:9bff:fec0:179a] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:19 -!- ivan` [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:20 -!- ivan` [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:52 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-62-53.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:25 < foucist> hmm, i once read about a guy that used some simple 3d/evolutionary computation/genetic algorithm program to generate a table for his living room 03:25 < foucist> trying to find where i read it, or what program it was hmm 03:54 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:01 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:18 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-175-14.shv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:27 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:35 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-175-14.shv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:13 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:55 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-26-252.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:09 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-26-252.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:38 -!- klafka [~textual@c-71-204-150-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:40 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:44 <@kanzure> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/13/e-coli-vials-found-in-arkansas-apartment-used-for-aliment/ 07:46 < chris_99> interesting 07:46 < chris_99> is e-coli that dangerous, i don't know much about it 07:47 <@kanzure> depends on the strain 07:48 <@kanzure> annnd anyone in law enforcement who does not know biology is trained to escalate "petri dishes" to threat level "oh fuck oh fuck" immediately 07:49 < archels> haha 07:50 < archels> e-coli lives in your and my gut. 07:53 < chris_99> lol 07:58 < audy> lol, vials 07:58 < audy> that just makes it sound sinister 07:58 < audy> "bubbling couldron of S. aureus found in home" 07:59 <@kanzure> 1) buy lots of petri dishes 07:59 <@kanzure> 2) buy lots of markers 07:59 <@kanzure> 3) label them, "V. Venusauris" 07:59 <@kanzure> and "P. Pikachuce" 08:00 < audy> haha 08:00 <@kanzure> 4) you know what to do 08:24 < chris_99> haha 08:27 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:28 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:35 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:38 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:39 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:58 <@kanzure> http://staceyk.org/diybioworkshop/call.html 08:58 <@kanzure> "During our one-day workshop, we will work directly with (DIY) biology practitioners to gain a shared understanding of the practices, materials and challenges behind hobby biology." 08:58 <@kanzure> "Submissions may be sent by email to stace@cmu.edu by March 16, 2012." 09:05 <@kanzure> why isn't there a game yet where you can scan in your lego creations 09:09 <@kanzure> http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=PR&Date=20120214&ID=14791316 09:09 <@kanzure> "Organovo Announces $6.5 Million Private Placement to Advance 3D Bioprinting for Medical Applications" 09:11 <@kanzure> /win 6 09:12 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.34] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:16 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:17 -!- He||eshin [~talinck@cpe-174-101-208-182.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:21 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-101-208-182.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:26 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:26 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:29 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:41 <@kanzure> wow this is some major fearmongering http://virtualbiosecuritycenter.org/organizations/diybio-org 09:50 < chris_99> guess you guys have heard of this http://openpcr.org/ 09:50 < chris_99> i want an open source synthesizer now 09:54 <@kanzure> openpcr for the longest time wasn't actually open 09:55 < chris_99> interesting 09:55 < chris_99> you mean until they'd finished 09:55 < chris_99> the software? 09:55 < chris_99> etc. 09:56 <@kanzure> there used to be a physically-large oligonucleotide jet printer project called posam or pogo, but the siet is down or something 09:56 <@kanzure> the software, their cad files, shit like tht 09:56 <@kanzure> here's posam/pogo http://www.bioinformatics.org/pogo/ 09:56 <@kanzure> "The Piezoelectric Oligonucleotide Synthesizer And Microarrayer (POSAM) was developed in the Hood Laboratory to give researchers access to customizeable DNA microarrays. The result is an "open source" platform. The hardware design and protocols are being made available freely to the public and the control software is released under the GPL license." 09:56 <@kanzure> it requires some strange things iirc; like an argon atmosphere 09:57 < chris_99> oh darn 09:57 < chris_99> sounds interesting though 09:59 <@kanzure> hah their rotary mixer.. page 11 http://www.bioinformatics.org/pogo/POSAM_Man_Ch2_User_v1-0_040414.pdf 10:00 <@kanzure> "we have found it more convenient to purchase acetonitrile in bulk, specifically 20L and 50L containers" oh boy 10:01 < chris_99> hehe 10:02 < chris_99> that looks a really interesting read 10:05 <@kanzure> i've updated http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ/News#Has_DIYbio_been_in_the_news.3F 10:05 < chris_99> another site to bookmark :) 10:06 < chris_99> i just bought a book called wetware 10:06 < chris_99> Wetware: A Computer in Every Living Cell: The Computer in Every Living Cell 10:08 <@kanzure> sounds like a dangerous(ly wrong) metaphor 10:08 <@kanzure> this looks neat: Microevolution of Canine Influenza Virus in Shelters and Its Molecular Epidemiology in the United States (J. Virol, 84:12636) 10:09 <@kanzure> http://gizmodo.com/5885295/how-to-dna+hack-yogurt-into-prozac 10:09 -!- SDr [SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:19 <@kanzure> "venter envy" http://ellingtonlab.org/blog/2011/08/05/on-venter-envy/ 10:20 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:26 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:36 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.160.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:39 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.34] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:53 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:56 < n_bentha> i want to make a bacteria that overproduce linaloo 10:56 < n_bentha> i want to make a bacteria that overproduce linalool* 10:56 < delinquentme> ^^^^ 10:56 < delinquentme> you're in the right place! 10:56 < n_bentha> :) 10:57 < n_bentha> i want to put it into a non-pathogenic enteric bacterial strain 10:57 < n_bentha> my shit would smell like flowers! 10:57 < delinquentme> lol 10:57 < delinquentme> sooo you need something which produces it 10:57 < delinquentme> and then overexpress it? 10:58 < Mokbortolan_1> I want to re-engineer the bacteria that consume apocrine excretions so that the produced compounds are odorless 10:58 < n_bentha> u don't need something that produces it, delinquetme 10:58 < n_bentha> u can produce chemical compounds that have never been expressed before in organisms by combining genes from different species 10:59 < delinquentme> ah ok so you get that organism to build it 10:59 < n_bentha> hey now, thos apocrine secretions attract the opposite sex 10:59 < n_bentha> yes 10:59 < Mokbortolan_1> not the sulfurous ones 11:00 < delinquentme> ahhhh 11:00 < delinquentme> ic ic 11:01 < n_bentha> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mevalonate_pathway.png 11:01 < n_bentha> + 11:01 < n_bentha> http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/127/3/1256/F1.expansion.html 11:01 < n_bentha> = linalool! 11:03 < n_bentha> haha put it into some health food, and you're rich 11:03 < n_bentha> everyone wants their shit to smell like flowers 11:03 < n_bentha> put it into some yogurt ^^ 11:03 < n_bentha> or maybe u'd have to bypass the stomach? 11:05 < n_bentha> hmmm 11:05 < n_bentha> i'd need to look up how to make a protein scaffold to increase the efficiency of my bacterial factory 11:06 < Mokbortolan_1> lilac enemas! 11:06 < n_bentha> u know...scaffold all the enzymes together, so the time for the molecule to wander around and bind to the enzymes is reduced 11:06 < Mokbortolan_1> they've been out of fashion for ~150 years, maybe their time is returning? :p 11:06 < n_bentha> hehe, but it's all natural (kinda-sorta) 11:06 < n_bentha> would be popular w/ the anal porn industry for sure 11:06 * n_bentha shudders 11:08 <@kanzure> 'In June 2008, the aquarium announced its "Swim With Gentle Giants" program. This allows divers or snorkelers to swim with the whale sharks.' 11:08 <@kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Aquarium 11:10 * n_bentha wants to do dat 11:24 -!- klafka [~textual@c-71-204-150-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:26 -!- He||eshin [~talinck@cpe-174-101-208-182.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27 -!- He||eshin [~talinck@cpe-174-101-208-182.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:35 <@kanzure> hi klafka 11:38 < klafka> hey kanzure 11:38 < klafka> i'm working from home today co i feel sickly 11:40 <@kanzure> oh you have to work in an office? 11:45 < klafka> kanzure is SUUUCH a hater 11:45 < klafka> it's important that we all work in the same area generally beacuse it facilitates communication 11:46 < chris_99> is there any more information on the the prozac yoghurt 11:46 <@kanzure> you know what else facilitates communication and team building? working from a strip club all day 11:46 < chris_99> he doesn't say what dna he used in the video 11:50 < chris_99> there doesn't seem to be anything on parts registry 11:50 < chris_99> to do that 11:50 <@kanzure> the prozac stuff? no. the parts registry will have some promoters or regulators though 11:50 < chris_99> hmm why doesnt he say what he used though 11:50 < chris_99> seems a bit odd 11:51 <@kanzure> cause he's either full of it, working for a lab and believes in intellectual property, or he's working for a company that believes in intellectual pooperty 11:51 < chris_99> heh, bit crap though, as he's trying to explain DIY biotech without telling you what the hell to do heh 11:53 < chris_99> all of his work seems to be a bit like that 11:58 <@kanzure> chris_99: you should post a reply to the diybio thread about this, and ask them for details 11:58 < chris_99> yeah i'll sign up to that now 12:02 < chris_99> just posted i think 12:06 <@kanzure> i think jason/mac set the group to "approve first post" so it might be a few hours until one of them gets their head out of the sand to approve your email 12:07 < chris_99> its up now from what i can see 12:10 < chris_99> do you know roughly whats the number of base-pairs a synthesizer can produce 12:10 <@kanzure> chris_99: can you re-ask 12:12 < chris_99> what do you mean? 12:12 <@kanzure> like max length? 12:12 < chris_99> yeah 12:12 <@kanzure> it depends on error rate 12:13 <@kanzure> you can operate a machine for as long as you want 12:13 <@kanzure> but most machines only operate at slightly above 95% accuracy 12:13 <@kanzure> even 98% accuracy is a huge problem for synthesizing long strands of dna 12:13 < chris_99> ah interesting, so you'd just have to run it until you get the chain which is correct 12:13 < chris_99> would you need an electron microscope to know its correct 12:13 <@kanzure> sorta kinda.. there are other strategies like.. do 1000 synthesis reactions simultaneously and hope one of them is correct 12:13 <@kanzure> no but you can theoretically use such a microscope 12:14 <@kanzure> you can do other types of verification 12:14 < chris_99> cool, such as? 12:14 <@kanzure> like dna sequencing (tons of different methods), hybridization, spectrometry, 12:14 <@kanzure> mass spec 12:15 < n_bentha> gc? 12:15 <@kanzure> fluorescence stuff. sequencing-by-synthesis (pyrosequencing) 12:15 < chris_99> awesome, more things to check out :) 12:15 < chris_99> back in a bit just making some homebrew beer 12:15 < n_bentha> mead is betta! 12:15 < chris_99> heh, i've got a bottle of that 12:24 -!- klafka [~textual@c-71-204-150-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:29 <@kanzure> viscousplacebo? heh 12:30 <@kanzure> "Firstly, this video where a guy takes yogurt and makes Prozac.http://giz..." 12:30 <@kanzure> you know, he could have meant the opposite 12:30 <@kanzure> the guy takes prozac, but makes yogurt 12:33 < n_bentha> lol 12:38 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-62-53.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:43 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-62-53.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:45 -!- marainein [~marainein@114-198-72-8.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:47 -!- kvltist [~Kvltist@p5B33FAF6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:50 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.160.104] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 12:59 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-62-53.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:01 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-62-53.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14 -!- roksprok [~Zac@74.83.205.124] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:17 -!- yash-phone [~yaaic@66-87-0-68.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:18 < yash-phone> so does that prozac guy explain how he gets bacteria to add the cf3 group to the prozac 13:19 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-62-53.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:20 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-62-53.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21 < yash-phone> also hey chris where in the uk you from? i grew up in chester 13:23 < chris_99> hey, yeah, i know chester :) i live in the north-west 13:23 < yash-phone> no shit, i still have family up there if you know where thelwall is 13:24 < chris_99> nah 13:24 < yash-phone> yeah it's a tiny village 13:25 < chris_99> heh. i just emailed that guy actually, but i got an out-of-office reply saying he's away from the net till april 13:28 < yash-phone> hahaha yeah, if he can get bacteria to use fluorine he'd be way famous 13:30 < yash-phone> also did you guys see that article on cathal garvey in techreview? 13:31 <@kanzure> yash-phone: we decided it was a journalism mixup; see, he only *takes* prozac, not *makes* prozac 13:31 <@kanzure> yes we saw the articles about cathal 13:31 <@kanzure> http://bit.ly/diybionews2 13:31 <@kanzure> http://www.genomeweb.com//node/1029216 13:31 <@kanzure> http://www.technologyreview.com/business/39597/ 13:36 < yash-phone> ok good; well, back to work for me bbl 13:36 -!- yash-phone [~yaaic@66-87-0-68.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [] 13:37 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-62-53.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:37 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-62-53.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42 -!- klafka [~textual@c-71-204-150-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:54 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-62-53.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:58 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-158-63.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:10 <@kanzure> klafka: sooo i have this SF-based "developer speed dating" thing 14:10 <@kanzure> apparently it was sold out last year 14:11 < klafka> LOL 14:11 < klafka> what? 14:11 <@kanzure> i purchased a ticket but i'm not actually in sf 14:11 <@kanzure> it's tomorrow 14:11 < klafka> so for developers to date each other? 14:11 < klafka> or? 14:11 <@kanzure> no it's for companies to pick up developers and people 14:11 <@kanzure> do you want it :/ 14:11 < klafka> that makes more sense 14:11 <@kanzure> http://rubydevelopersll.eventbrite.com/ 14:12 < klafka> hmmm thanks but i don't think it makes sense atm 14:12 <@kanzure> know anyone else who could use it? 14:12 <@kanzure> fenn: would you enjoy tolerating that 14:12 < klafka> hmmmm 14:14 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:58 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:21 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-158-63.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:26 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:29 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:45 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:39 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:41 < fenn> heh lots of familiar names on that ruby developer meatup 16:42 <@kanzure> you want it? 16:42 < fenn> no 16:43 <@kanzure> jfkladjfdkal nobody's taking this 16:43 * fenn shrugs 16:43 < fenn> there's lots of events along these lines, and personally i don't know ruby/rails 16:43 <@kanzure> i was thinking of going and just making up stuff, like "oh yeah i totally scaled infrastructure to send billions of messages per second" 16:43 <@kanzure> or "google? yeah i worked there, whatever" 16:45 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:47 < Mokbortolan_1> I strategized cloud-service SAAS architecture synergies to collaboratively distribute viral crowdsourced content to billions of customers! 16:47 <@kanzure> now you've got it.. you're on your way to 205k/year 16:47 < fenn> is there a RoR marketspeak buzzword generator? 16:48 < Mokbortolan_1> Hehehe... Crowdsourced massively-distributed direct-contact email advertisement campaign = botnet spammer! 16:48 < fenn> nikki recommends complaining about routing in rails, namedropping obi fernandez, antipatterns 16:49 <@kanzure> fenn: http://ykombinator.com/ 16:54 <@kanzure> man i hate it when i'm my search results http://osdir.com/ml/diybio/2010-09/msg00192.html 16:54 <@kanzure> (and apologies for linking to osdir.com's spam directory) 16:58 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:02 <@kanzure> microfluidics bootcamp http://www.princeton.edu/psoc/training/bootcamp/ 17:03 <@kanzure> "Our inaugural camp is designed to familiarize researchers with microfluidic/micro-fabrication technologies. Attendees will learn to make microfluidic devices by soft lithography and perform several experiments using them. The course consists of lectures and hands-on laboratory experience." 17:03 <@kanzure> August 1-5, 2011 - August 8-12, 2011 17:03 <@kanzure> aughhhh 17:10 <@kanzure> http://www.princeton.edu/microfluidics/training/boot-camp/2011_Materials/bootcamp0_3_6.pdf 17:10 <@kanzure> schedule http://www.princeton.edu/microfluidics/training/boot-camp/2011_Materials/schedulev3_new.pdf 17:16 < roksprok> are molds for microfluidics chips usually made using laser cutters? 17:26 <@kanzure> nope 17:26 <@kanzure> lithography 17:27 <@kanzure> but i've experimented with laser-cut acrylic, 17:27 <@kanzure> and nathan has experimented with laser-cut pdms i think 17:27 < roksprok> how has it worked? 17:28 <@kanzure> needs more testing 17:28 <@kanzure> huh, the shrinkydink stuff has been turned into a product 17:28 <@kanzure> http://shrink.myshopify.com/ 17:43 <@kanzure> yeah that bootcamp doc is really great 17:51 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:55 <@kanzure> hi ParahSailin 17:55 < ParahSailin> howdy 17:56 * ParahSailin is rogue molecular biologist 17:58 <@kanzure> cool 17:58 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: can you help me out with oligonucleotide synthesis chemistry 17:59 <@kanzure> i threw up some notes: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/synthesis.html 18:00 < ParahSailin> i'd say go with idt 18:00 <@kanzure> no thanks 18:00 <@kanzure> this is for a device 18:00 < ParahSailin> ah 18:00 <@kanzure> my target budget is <$5k per device (final) 18:00 < ParahSailin> ill check out what you are saying 18:00 <@kanzure> i mean, production price 18:00 < ParahSailin> that sounds awesome 18:00 <@kanzure> none of this >$100k bullshit 18:01 < ParahSailin> i have no qualms about breaking every single patent if it means these machines will all be cheaper 18:01 <@kanzure> alright grat 18:01 <@kanzure> *great 18:01 <@kanzure> welcome to the club, how'd you find us 18:02 < ParahSailin> a meatspace friend told me about this, im not sure what name he goes by in here 18:02 < ParahSailin> i think the most significant thing about 3d printers is being able to "pirate" hardware, infringe patents 18:03 <@kanzure> most stuff isn't made on 3d printers 18:03 < ParahSailin> i know. im saying that the most significant use of a 3d printer would be to rip off patents 18:04 < ParahSailin> in a decentralized way such that patents are impossible to enforce 18:04 < jrayhawk> Personal computing has not obsoleted software patents. 18:04 < ParahSailin> personally i think subtractive processes are a more reasonable way to accomplish to goal of bespoke parts 18:06 < jrayhawk> Though there is an extent to which if patents started being seriously leveraged against hacker-archetypes, development would move underground. 18:06 < ParahSailin> kanzure, how do you intend to reduce the price 18:06 < ParahSailin> i think it might be pretty difficult to do what idt does, cheaper 18:06 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: by not charging so much 18:07 <@kanzure> $0.30/bp is stupid 18:07 <@kanzure> george church cites $1 per 100 kbp 18:07 < ParahSailin> its $0.20 now 18:07 <@kanzure> $0.30/bp is the price that the synthesis services show you 18:07 <@kanzure> device != service 18:07 < ParahSailin> so you think their margin is ridiculously high, and their business model is propped up by patents on the machines? 18:08 <@kanzure> their margin might not be so high because of sequencing costs :x but i'm not 100% sure on that 18:08 <@kanzure> and it might not be patent costs but rather things like.. "if we don't charge so much, our business fails for other reasons" like "because we pay for 10 employee-years per sale we make" 18:09 <@kanzure> yeah i'm p. sure the synthesis services are also doing verification/validation/sequencing and this might drive the cost up a bit 18:10 <@kanzure> my plan is to do a microfluidic circuit for this, so ideally your starter reagents will last you a long, long time 18:10 < ParahSailin> i know a guy who does microfluidics 18:10 <@kanzure> i would like to meet him. 18:10 < ParahSailin> old lab i used to work in 18:10 <@kanzure> would he be into looking over my project and shit? 18:11 < ParahSailin> i could see if he's interested 18:11 <@kanzure> thanks. i need more mf people to tell me how dumb which parts of my plans are 18:12 <@kanzure> yashgaroth (in here) also came up with a particularly strange nicking enzyme method for a giant microfluidic oligo library, which probably needs the eyes of a molecular biologist 18:12 < ParahSailin> though hes pretty conservative about obeying patent laws and trying to get as much money as possible instead of deriving value from making research cheap 18:12 < ParahSailin> id like to see that 18:12 <@kanzure> i'm pretty sure there'd be an explosion of sales for even a $5k or $10k dna synthesizer 18:13 < ParahSailin> i have worked with microfluidics a lot so i could tell you if the design will work, but my old associate would have to produce it 18:13 <@kanzure> and if not, who cares.. i'd have a synthesizer :P which is good enough for me 18:13 <@kanzure> oh great 18:13 <@kanzure> yeah i'm gearing up to do a foundry 18:13 <@kanzure> soo 18:13 <@kanzure> i'm cool with doing it on my own i just don't want to reinvent the wheel 18:13 < ParahSailin> foundry? 18:13 <@kanzure> microfluidics foundries 18:14 <@kanzure> you know.. like http://www.stanford.edu/group/foundry/ 18:14 <@kanzure> http://kni.caltech.edu/foundry/ 18:14 < ParahSailin> yah microfluidics takes a lot of money 18:14 < ParahSailin> my old lab was at university of illinois 18:14 <@kanzure> why do you say that (money) 18:14 <@kanzure> the solenoid valves look expensive, but i could maybe make those 18:15 < ParahSailin> the advisor there who controlled it took a lot of pride in how it was on par with stanford and caltech's 18:15 < ParahSailin> well the cleanroom stuff in general 18:15 < ParahSailin> of course theres the usual institutional price inflation.. 18:15 <@kanzure> the stanford one looks pretty cheap if i was to just order it 18:15 <@kanzure> $400 per mask, then $75/chip after that 18:16 < ParahSailin> thats pretty good 18:17 <@kanzure> hah - the guy published a .tex file for that guide i linked earlier, cool.. http://www.princeton.edu/microfluidics/training/boot-camp/2011_Materials/bootcamp0_3_6.tex 18:17 < ParahSailin> these are pdms and glass chips? 18:17 <@kanzure> yes 18:17 < ParahSailin> those foul very quickly 18:17 <@kanzure> yeah, and acetonitrile is pretty corrosive 18:17 < ParahSailin> the deal is a professor makes them for one experiment 18:17 <@kanzure> parylene might help 18:18 < ParahSailin> and writes a paper out of a device 18:18 < ParahSailin> parylene is extremely soft 18:18 < ParahSailin> my old lab uses su8 18:18 < ParahSailin> that stands up to a lot 18:19 <@kanzure> a lot of this also depends on which final design i choose; 18:19 < ParahSailin> well maybe not su8, but it is some epoxy resin that is photopatternable 18:19 < ParahSailin> he can do devices with multiple channel layers 18:19 < ParahSailin> if thats something you would like in a design 18:19 <@kanzure> i'd like to avoid pneumatic valves, but they seem the most studied 18:20 <@kanzure> soo it will probably be two layer.. one for fluids, one for the pneumatics 18:20 <@kanzure> i need to make up my mind if i'm doing raw phosphoramidite chemistry 18:21 <@kanzure> or if i'm going to do an oligo library (6mers?) and just use overhangs/sticky ends 18:22 <@kanzure> direct oligo synthesis is error-prone but studied extensively 18:23 <@kanzure> an oligo library method will need a few custom/not-completely-analyzed methods.. but will probably be less error-prone and make longer strands 18:23 < ParahSailin> a new technology would be great to work on, but for initial work, probably stick to the phosphoramidite 18:24 <@kanzure> right 18:24 < ParahSailin> anyone need biobricks? 18:24 <@kanzure> yeah, can you ship me the book 18:24 < ParahSailin> i've got access to the last couple years of distributions 18:24 <@kanzure> they don't ship to non-institutional peeps >:| 18:25 < ParahSailin> yah i'm "institutional" 18:25 <@kanzure> heh 18:26 < ParahSailin> if there are any specific parts you want, i can break them out of the institutional jail 18:28 <@kanzure> not at the moment, but someone on diybio posted a plan of action for starting a service to distribute biobricks to amateurs 18:30 < ParahSailin> yah i saw 18:30 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:32 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: can you ping your other foundry friend and maybe cc me? i'm Bryan Bishop 18:33 < ParahSailin> ah ok i see your name in there a lot 18:34 < klafka> hey 18:35 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: yeah i'm a chronic spammer.. http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/about lists me as the top offender 18:37 < ParahSailin> ok its sent 18:37 <@kanzure> thanks 18:38 < ParahSailin> austin, nice 18:40 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: http://i.imgur.com/cl7Ng.jpg 18:40 <@kanzure> this is the nicking enzyme method 18:40 <@kanzure> the idea is to use droplet microfluidics 18:40 <@kanzure> in each droplet would be a few beads with that oligo library item 18:40 <@kanzure> with an overhang. 18:40 <@kanzure> retrieve the library item, run the protocol and end up with some 6mers floating around 18:40 <@kanzure> this way, the library does not 'deplete' over time 18:41 <@kanzure> then you wash the 6mers down to your growing oligo reaction somewhere else 18:42 <@kanzure> the dsDNA in the diagram would be maybe 40bp 18:42 <@kanzure> you can't have a library of just 6mers since you can't PCR that 18:42 < ParahSailin> try getting a thiel grant for that 18:42 < ParahSailin> breakoutlabs 18:42 <@kanzure> breakout labs wants like 20% of all future revenue 18:42 <@kanzure> screw _that_ 18:42 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil] 18:43 < ParahSailin> how much capital would it take you to develop the process 18:43 <@kanzure> i think i have enough 18:43 <@kanzure> but more is always nice :3 18:44 < ParahSailin> your gpg public key? 18:44 <@kanzure> erm.. 18:45 <@kanzure> let me put it up somewhere 18:45 <@kanzure> what do you need it for? 18:45 < ParahSailin> secure messages 18:45 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/kanzure.pub 18:47 < ParahSailin> oh, im not sure what to do with that kind of key 18:47 < ParahSailin> oh yah that home directory of pdfs you have is pretty nice 18:47 <@kanzure> thanks 18:48 < ParahSailin> i was browsing that for a while 18:48 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ 18:48 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/ 18:48 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/ 18:48 < ParahSailin> i was working for the sens foundation and aubrey de grey for a while 18:48 <@kanzure> also try /neuro /bio /stem-cells /nanotech 18:48 <@kanzure> ah cool 18:48 <@kanzure> you hear they kicked out lorenzo? 18:48 < ParahSailin> yah, so it sounds like you are paying a lot of attention to those guys 18:49 <@kanzure> not as much as i should 18:50 <@kanzure> i'm not in regular contact with them 18:51 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: humanity+ is the same way 18:52 <@kanzure> i'm p. sure everyone but me is just crazy and/or retarded 18:52 <@kanzure> all these orgs... just pathetic 18:55 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-24-94-5-223.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:57 < yashgaroth> whatup fuckers 18:58 <@kanzure> just lots of fucking 18:58 < yashgaroth> sweet 18:58 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: we have a new molecular biologist person ParahSailin 18:58 < yashgaroth> yeah I've been catching up on the logs 18:59 < roksprok> yashgaroth: i think it was you that recommended Molecular Biology of the Cell, if so, thanks a lot. It blows the other molecular bio textbooks i've read out of the water 18:59 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: regarding polymerase.. 18:59 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/polymerase/ 18:59 <@kanzure> roksprok: :) 18:59 < ParahSailin> hey 19:00 <@kanzure> some of those papers might be helpful 19:00 < klafka> 2oh god 19:00 <@kanzure> it's definitely a hard problem 19:00 < yashgaroth> finally another molecular biologist here 19:00 < klafka> mol bio of the cel is a good book 19:00 < klafka> also mol bio of the gene is good too 19:00 < klafka> hey i'm a molecular biologist-ish 19:00 <@kanzure> you're just a bioinformaticist 19:00 < klafka> oh 19:00 < klafka> yah true 19:00 <@kanzure> :P 19:00 <@kanzure> i'm totally kidding 19:01 < yashgaroth> compters, bah 19:01 < klafka> actually i prefer computational biologist that sold out for money 19:01 < klafka> :P 19:01 < yashgaroth> so parahsailin what are you working on these days? you in a lab? 19:02 < ParahSailin> im working on making cheap production vectors for useful enzymes 19:03 < ParahSailin> break the neb fischer etc oligopoloyt 19:03 < yashgaroth> cool 19:04 < ParahSailin> recently fired from my lab but my advisor is letting me have access to lab 19:04 <@kanzure> uhhh 19:04 <@kanzure> sounds legit to me :) alright 19:04 < yashgaroth> heh, lab acces is the important thing 19:05 <@kanzure> does this include literature access 19:05 < ParahSailin> yah 19:05 < ParahSailin> and access to the biobrick distros 19:08 < ParahSailin> i want to start working with insect cells before my lab access gets revoked 19:09 < ParahSailin> kanzure, you have any interest in sf21 cell line? 19:09 < yashgaroth> you plan to make the restriction enzymes etc in insect cells? 19:10 < ParahSailin> no 19:10 < yashgaroth> oh good 19:10 < ParahSailin> insect cells to produce vaccinia pol 19:10 < ParahSailin> "in-fusion" 19:10 < ParahSailin> "like gibson assembly, except works reliably" 19:13 < ParahSailin> tbh dont have that much need for that cell line at the moment 19:13 < ParahSailin> i'd like to bank it and jailbreak it for when it's needed though 19:14 < yashgaroth> I'm still reading up on vaccinia pol, hadn't heard much about it before 19:14 < ParahSailin> it's pretty awesome, and pretty expensive 19:15 < ParahSailin> you can't just express in e coli, and probably part of that is because the pol requires cofactor proteins complexed with it 19:16 < yashgaroth> including when it's polymerizing? or just for expression 19:16 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-185-250.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:16 < ParahSailin> probably for activity 19:17 -!- nmz787 [43f2b117@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.242.177.23] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:17 < ParahSailin> i dunno, takara can produce it reliably, and there hasnt been much literature on it since 19:17 < ParahSailin> patent says they get a monopoly on its sale 19:17 < yashgaroth> can you purify the whole complex by affinity binding? otherwise that sounds annoyingly hard 19:17 < ParahSailin> yah thats how they do it 19:18 < ParahSailin> i'd like to get my hands on the wr vaccinia strain 19:19 < ParahSailin> might be hard at this point 19:20 < nmz787> why vaccinia? 19:21 < ParahSailin> well that dna polymerase has a pretty special recombinase activity 19:21 < nmz787> oh, came in after you mentioned that 19:21 < ParahSailin> clontech sells it under the name In-Fusion 19:25 <@kanzure> hi nmz787 19:25 <@kanzure> ParahSailin has been kind enough to offer some microfluidics help 19:27 <@kanzure> klafka: say hi to nmz787 19:27 < klafka> nmz787 19:27 < klafka> hey 19:27 < nmz787> hi klafka 19:28 < nmz787> so if we have acetone from fatty acids during fasting periods, can we huff acetone instead of cooking? 19:28 < ParahSailin> acetone is the breakdown of hydroxybutyrate 19:29 < nmz787> yeah 19:29 < ParahSailin> its a mistake, and not catabolized as well as the "ketones" that are intended 19:29 < nmz787> you can also get it at home depot 19:29 < nmz787> oh, mistake? the biochem video i just watched didn't say it was a mistak 19:29 < nmz787> just a branch in the path 19:30 -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:31 < yashgaroth> I'd imagine you'd need to be in ketosis to make efficient use of it, but if you're atkinsing I'd go ahead and chug a bottle of it 19:32 < ParahSailin> acetone is pretty toxic though 19:32 < yashgaroth> naaaaah 19:32 < ParahSailin> not really a simple path to take it back to ac-coa iirc 19:33 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by ChanServ 19:33 < ParahSailin> i was pretty keto for a while 19:33 < ParahSailin> no im just struggling to keep weight on 19:36 < nmz787> hmm 19:36 < nmz787> i don't think i'd want to chug acetone 19:36 < nmz787> i guess i need to taste it first 19:36 < nmz787> hah 19:36 < ParahSailin> you can get beta hydroxybutyrate pretty cheaply though 19:37 < ParahSailin> ralstonia somethingsomethingia 19:37 < nmz787> i was cleaning a PCB circuit board with it the other day and got a little light headed 19:37 < nmz787> it was weird 19:37 < nmz787> i wasn't expecting it 19:40 < kanzure> blah blah blah more about journal politics http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/15/the-dangerous-research-works-act/ 19:40 < kanzure> more commentary: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3596535 19:45 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone. 19:51 < JayDugger> "you hear they kicked out lorenzo?" Lorenzo Albanello? 19:51 < ParahSailin> is he famous around here? 19:52 < kanzure> famous? not quite.. we just know him 19:52 < kanzure> JayDugger: yes 19:53 < klafka> is he the reddit guy? 19:53 < JayDugger> Thanks. In fact, I only heard his name with that reference. 19:53 < klafka> i'm glad that people are finally waking up to elsevier 19:53 < kanzure> no lorenzo is the sens guy 19:53 < kanzure> the reddit/journal-scraping-guy is aaron swartz 19:53 < klafka> man like i've been fucking RAILING against fucking elsevier for years 19:53 < klafka> ah ok 19:54 < JayDugger> Anyhow, welcome ParahSailin. 19:54 < kanzure> we need a better name for anti-elsevier activities 19:55 < ParahSailin> i dunno what lorenzo is up to these days 19:55 < ParahSailin> ah i see bruce got back already, cool 19:56 < kanzure> ParahSailin: hey what's the smallest pneumatic setup you've seen? 19:56 -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@dynamic-87-105-21-133.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Quit: uniqanomaly] 19:56 < ParahSailin> pneumatic for pumping fluid? 19:57 < kanzure> nope 19:57 < ParahSailin> i dunno 19:57 < kanzure> most microfluidics i've seen use pneumatics for valves 19:57 < kanzure> micropumps/micropipette pumping seems ok to me 19:57 < ParahSailin> bruce has the ability to make nanopore membrane valves 19:57 < kanzure> orly 19:57 < kanzure> that would be useful 19:58 < ParahSailin> dont quote me on that, and dont make it known i said so, i dont know if thats proprietary knowledge 19:58 < kanzure> meh k 19:58 < kanzure> *meh ok 19:59 < ParahSailin> ill ask him about it for you 19:59 < kanzure> nah not yet 20:00 < ParahSailin> the devices he makes are based on electroosmotic flow 20:00 < kanzure> hrm alright 20:00 < ParahSailin> i believe they have a paper out on the nanopore membrane 20:00 -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@dynamic-87-105-21-133.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:00 < kanzure> is this for valving or just for filtering? 20:01 < ParahSailin> http://mechse.illinois.edu/content/research/publications.php?faculty_id=57 is all their recent papers 20:01 < ParahSailin> its for valving 20:02 < kanzure> is it this one? Bae, B., J. Han, R. I. Masel, and M. A. Shannon, “A Bi-Directional Electrostatic Microvalve with Microsecond Switching Performance,” Journal of Microelectromechanical Systems, 16, 1461-1471, Dec. 2007. 20:02 < kanzure> or maybe Gong, M., B. R. Flachsbart, M. A. Shannon, P. W. Bohn, and J. V. Sweedler, “Fluidic Communication Between Multiple Vertically Segregated Microfluidic Channels Connected by Nanocapillary Array Membranes,” Electrophoresis, 29, 1237-1244, 2008. 20:03 < kanzure> Flachsbart, B. R., K. Wong, J. M. Iannacone, E. N. Abante, R. L. Vlach, P. A. Rauchfuss, P. W. Bohn, J. V. Sweedler, and M. A. Shannon, “Design and Fabrication of a Multilayered Polymer Microfluidic Chip with Nanofluidic Interconnects via Adhesive Contact Printing,” Lab-On-A-Chip, 6:5, 667-674, 2006. 20:06 < ParahSailin> that would be the one, anything with flachsbart, is relevant 20:24 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-185-250.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:26 < augur> so it seems library.nu is dead :( 20:28 < Mokbortolan_1> augur: http://gen.lib.rus.ec/ 20:29 < augur> \o/ 20:30 < augur> spasibo, Mokbortolan_1 20:36 -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:15 < ParahSailin> back 21:17 < Stee|> kanzure, was the thing schwartz got busted over on behalf of this channel? 21:18 < kanzure> no 21:18 < kanzure> Of course not, don't be silly 21:18 < kanzure> he also ran the googlegroup 'getarticles' but he's since taken it down 21:21 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:22 < ParahSailin> im not following the nickase dna synth scheme 21:22 < kanzure> yashgaroth: ping 21:23 < yashgaroth> pong 21:23 < kanzure> 128ms latency fuck this 21:23 < kanzure> ParahSailin: here's the problem 21:23 < kanzure> imagine a microfluidic chip with an oligo library stored in individual droplets 21:23 < kanzure> each droplet can have, say, a few beads with oligos attached, or just in solution 21:24 < kanzure> if it's just in solution, you need to have pcr on chip to "replenish" your library 21:24 < ParahSailin> ah ok 21:24 < kanzure> and if you want to pcr your library items, you need the oligos to be long enough 21:24 < nmz787> sounds alright 21:24 < kanzure> pcring 6mers ain't gonna happen 21:25 < nmz787> PCR would also produce dsDNA 21:25 < nmz787> not ssDNA 21:25 < nmz787> so you wouldn't exactly be producing oligos, per se 21:25 < yashgaroth> ah! but 21:25 < ParahSailin> so the scheme is to produce 6mers by Pamidite and then use microfluidics and enzymes to ligate them 21:25 < kanzure> so my first solution to this was a long ass oligo like oligooligooligo (rs=restriction site) 21:26 < kanzure> actually no, not through enzymatic ligation but rather sticky ends 21:26 < ParahSailin> ah, so 3mer overhangs? 21:26 < kanzure> erm, 6mer overhangs? 21:26 < yashgaroth> 3nt overhangs 21:26 < nmz787> yeah mer overhang 21:27 < kanzure> ok fine.. 3 :P 21:27 < nmz787> 3 on the growing strand 21:27 < ParahSailin> id say first get Pamidite working onachip 21:27 < kanzure> ParahSailin: soo the idea is to wash the final oligos down to the reaction site somewhere else 21:28 < kanzure> what is pamidite 21:28 < nmz787> i think you can def extend 3 nt with polymerase 21:28 < nmz787> phosphoramidite 21:28 < ParahSailin> phosphoramidite 21:28 < kanzure> oh duh 21:28 < nmz787> jeez 21:28 < kanzure> god 21:28 < nmz787> who are you 21:28 < nmz787> ? 21:28 < kanzure> nobody of consequence 21:29 < yashgaroth> ok I found it http://i.imgur.com/cl7Ng.jpg 21:29 < kanzure> oh i had it heh 21:29 < kanzure> the link i mean.. it was pasted above 21:30 < nmz787> where is your nicking enzyme? 21:30 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/nicking-library-method.jpg 21:30 < nmz787> get me a link to NEB.com 21:30 < nmz787> REs nick on both strands 21:30 < yashgaroth> I think I used http://www.neb.com/nebecomm/products/productR0607.asp 21:31 < nmz787> unless we can modify the library bead to be resistant 21:31 < kanzure> http://www.neb.com/nebecomm/products/productR0607.asp 21:31 < kanzure> http://www.neb.com/nebecomm/products/productR0607.asp 21:31 < kanzure> oh hell 21:31 < nmz787> maybe that would make them more stabile too? 21:31 < nmz787> stable* 21:31 < yashgaroth> yeah no nicking enzymes only cut one strand 21:31 < kanzure> not only did i paste dupe links, yashgaroth got it faster 21:31 < ParahSailin> plenty of REs that cut one strand 21:31 < ParahSailin> NEB sells such mutants as "nickases" 21:31 < yashgaroth> and the melting temp of any 6mer below room temp, so they fall off automatically and the pcr begins again 21:31 < yashgaroth> is below* 21:32 < kanzure> ParahSailin: around here, we take our PCR seriously :) http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/pcr/PCR%20-%20Nanodroplet%20real-time%20PCR%20system%20with%20laser%20assisted%20heating.pdf 21:32 < nmz787> yash, "yeah no nicking enzymes only cut one strand" or "yeah, no, nicking enzymes only cut one strand" 21:32 < nmz787> ? 21:33 < ParahSailin> ah yah thats why kanzure linked 21:33 < yashgaroth> the latter, nmz 21:33 < nmz787> oh 21:33 < nmz787> hmm 21:33 < nmz787> what is their melt temp? 21:33 < kanzure> "40 cycles of PCR in 370 seconds" 21:33 < nmz787> i hadn't thought about that for the synthesis chamber... 21:33 < yashgaroth> 6mers? like 6-20C depending on gc content 21:33 < nmz787> oh, 21:33 < nmz787> so we chill the reaction center, and blast it with laser 21:34 < nmz787> i like it 21:34 < kanzure> chilling could be as easy as cold liquid 21:34 < nmz787> no switching of the peltier/refrig 21:34 < nmz787> like with normal PCR 21:34 < yashgaroth> but yeah the whole oligo synth should run at a single temp 21:34 < nmz787> eliminates need for micro/nano resistive heaters 21:34 < kanzure> nmz787: how would rapid cooling work? 21:35 < kanzure> 6C is obviously below room temp 21:35 < nmz787> it would always be cold 21:35 < yashgaroth> well, you don't need it at 6C, as long as it's above 6 21:35 < nmz787> thermal paste to a peltier 21:35 < nmz787> at 2 or 4 21:35 < nmz787> C 21:35 < yashgaroth> for ligating all these 6mers together, that'll be 2-4C 21:36 < nmz787> and the laser would raise it via PWM/experimental duty/time period determined 21:36 < nmz787> (experimentally determined)* 21:36 < yashgaroth> wait why are there lasers now 21:36 < nmz787> lol 21:36 < nmz787> star wars 21:36 < kanzure> it's tempting to go for this right off the bat since the chemistry is less intimidating.. 21:36 < nmz787> the paper kanzure last linked 21:36 < yashgaroth> oh right 21:36 < nmz787> how portable do coolers get? 21:36 < kanzure> just pump in cool liquid.. 21:36 < nmz787> is there a peltier sized device that is more like a heat pump? 21:37 < nmz787> so its more efficient 21:37 < kanzure> you could have cooling channels :P 21:37 < nmz787> if it were say run on batterys 21:37 < yashgaroth> why are we thermocycling for the 6mer synthesis? you don't need to 21:37 < ParahSailin> reduce the number of uncertainties/new techniques 21:38 < kanzure> ParahSailin: yeah.. i know. 21:38 < nmz787> well you want to control synthesis 21:38 < ParahSailin> already a difficult problem as it is 21:38 < nmz787> you don't want repeats 21:38 < kanzure> ParahSailin: buut.. oligo synthesis has lots of chemicals that are sorta uncertainties 21:38 < nmz787> you said the oligo would melt 21:38 < yashgaroth> sure it will, but it'll melt at reaction temperature; as soon as the nicking enzyme cuts, it falls off 21:38 < yashgaroth> and pol comes in once again 21:39 < nmz787> (i'm not talking about synthesis of new library items, i'm talking about using the library items for de novo synthesis using polymerase 21:39 < kanzure> what 21:39 < yashgaroth> but there's no polymerization involved when the whole desired fragment is assembled from 6mers 21:39 < kanzure> are you talking about 'getting some mers out of the library' 21:39 < ParahSailin> also, dont do anything that requires droplet microfluidics, or youll have to find differen foundry 21:39 < nmz787> no nicking enzyme during synth of long strands 21:39 < kanzure> ParahSailin: wait, really? i'm very attracted to droplets 21:39 < yashgaroth> oh, just heat inactivate 21:40 < ParahSailin> well i dunno 21:40 < ParahSailin> might be the way to go 21:40 < kanzure> ParahSailin: droplets are probably the way to go for storing a few thousand library items 21:40 < ParahSailin> bruce does not have experience with that one though 21:41 < kanzure> well, i guess there's always the gated array of 'library cells' with continuous flow.. 21:41 < ParahSailin> i have no idea if compatible with his current fabrication technique 21:41 < nmz787> my original idea was just to order synthetic 6mers with 3'OH removed or modified to prevent extension 21:41 < kanzure> droplets are mostly just a matter of water-in-oil 21:41 < kanzure> ..right? 21:41 < nmz787> then you could hybridize 3mer overhangs and extend a non 6mer strand (i.e. a DNA attached to a bead) 21:42 < nmz787> melt, return the 6mer solution to the storage library 21:42 < kanzure> i was thinking the 'get your 6mers' step would be physically isolated from the growing DNA somewhere else on chip 21:42 < nmz787> and now using polymerase the DNA attached to the bead is extended 21:42 < kanzure> and the only thing returned to the library would be the beads 21:43 < nmz787> wait you're saying kanzure this process: http://i.imgur.com/cl7Ng.jpg 21:43 < kanzure> why would the 6mers not attach one after another after bidning to the growing strands? 21:43 < nmz787> would take place at the site where you want to synthesize a custom DNA? 21:44 < kanzure> i'm saying it would /not/ take place at the same site 21:44 < nmz787> right 21:44 < yashgaroth> I thought we'd be keeping the beads on the library chip permanently, and just pumping in/out the reaction mix when you need that oligo 21:44 < kanzure> yashgaroth: right 21:44 < klafka> argh kanzure you guys keep talking about all this oligo synth stuff 21:44 < kanzure> klafka: ? 21:44 < klafka> i need to set a weekend to catch up 21:45 < nmz787> lol 21:45 < kanzure> yashgaroth: but i'm wondering, when you're letting the sticky ends attach and such.. why wouldn't the 6mers attach one after another and cause dupes? 21:45 < nmz787> ok so however you get your oligos doesnt matter too much to me at this point 21:45 < yashgaroth> how do you mean 21:45 < kanzure> yashgaroth: how is it that only one 6mer will attach to the growing strand 21:46 < ParahSailin> 4**6 seems like a big number 21:46 < yashgaroth> oh, I envisaged you'd just mix them all together and let the ligase sort 'em out 21:46 < nmz787> well when I did a back of the hand calculation it still seemed cheap as hell to buy 25nMol of 1024 vials of 6mer from a synth company 21:46 < kanzure> yashgaroth: huh? 21:46 < kanzure> yeah 1024 vials doesn't matter to me - that seems fine.. again it would be a droplet library 21:46 < nmz787> the process I want to concentrate on first is how to use the oligos as a synth library 21:46 < yashgaroth> well presumably you'd make sure all the sticky ends in a given ligation would be unique 21:46 < kanzure> yashgaroth: so it would cycle between using a 3' end and a 5' end? 21:47 < yashgaroth> yes 21:47 < kanzure> ok makes sense to me 21:47 < kanzure> i thought this method was the one that did not require ligase 21:47 < nmz787> yashagaroth and kanzure... i was avoiding ligase for that reason 21:47 < yashgaroth> how do you plan to reconnect the backbone? 21:47 < nmz787> using polymerase to extend the growing strand using the hybridized oligo as a template strand 21:47 < nmz787> not a primer 21:47 < yashgaroth> ah 21:48 < yashgaroth> but the template needs to be specifically ligated to the growing strand 21:48 < nmz787> which is again why i was thinking of recycling the oligos 21:48 < mag1strate> nmz787: What are you trying to do? 21:48 < nmz787> but that would only work ensuring the oligos werent extended in a possible primer mismatch 21:49 < nmz787> otherwise if they were normal oligos I would flush for safety 21:49 < nmz787> mag1strate: grow custom DNA 21:49 < nmz787> using no harsh chemicals 21:49 < mag1strate> oh cool 21:49 < nmz787> using biotools instead of synthetic chemistry 21:50 < mag1strate> Wish I could help, I know no biology :( 21:50 < nmz787> after the main synth chamber reactions are worked out, THEN I think we should work out the details of oligo library production/reproduction/scalable way to do it 21:51 < nmz787> and remember even our cells have redundancy pathways, so its OK if we have to order beads and have pamidite synth the first time... or if we screw up and lose all our backup beads, etc... 21:51 < kanzure> why is ligase a problem on an alternating 3'/5' availability scheme? 21:52 < nmz787> how would it help? 21:52 < nmz787> where would it be needed on chip? 21:52 < kanzure> what 21:52 < nmz787> hmm 21:52 < kanzure> yashgaroth: i am confused can you unbreak this 21:52 < nmz787> lemme think 21:52 < yashgaroth> um you need a ligase to make the fragment not fall apart 21:53 < yashgaroth> if we're not using pol to extend the fragment, that is 21:53 < nmz787> if you extended with pol, then ligated.. you wouldnt have a sticky end for the next round 21:53 < yashgaroth> that's why I'm not in favor of using pol 21:53 < nmz787> and ligase can ligate blunt ends sometimes 21:54 < yashgaroth> very shittily though 21:54 < nmz787> so you dont get the control i am looking for 21:54 < nmz787> yeah but 0 21:54 < nmz787> is different than 1 % 21:54 < nmz787> or 1 in 100000 21:54 < nmz787> 0 means no noise 21:54 < nmz787> which synthetic methods don't have 21:54 < yashgaroth> hopefully only the 6mer with the matching overhang would get added 21:54 < nmz787> and all kanzures cells have all day for pennies 21:55 < nmz787> if we are making the libraries ourselves, eventually 21:55 < nmz787> we could scale up to 10mer 21:55 < nmz787> and still only have 3 mer overhangs 21:56 < nmz787> so reduce the risk of mismathc 21:56 < yashgaroth> and a million wells 21:56 < nmz787> drops 21:56 < nmz787> no wells in this system 21:56 < kanzure> soo what's wrong with ligase without polymerase? 21:56 < nmz787> think computer architecture 21:56 < yashgaroth> I'd like to test out whether 'throwing a bunch of overlapping 6mers in with a ligase and seeing if we get a continuous fragment' works 21:57 < kanzure> wait, overlapping? 21:57 < yashgaroth> yes, each 6mer has 3nt that overlap the next one, and so on 21:57 -!- earcaraxe [4b5c5e98@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.92.94.152] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:57 < kanzure> hi earcaraxe 21:57 < earcaraxe> well hello there hplusroadmap! 21:57 < earcaraxe> and kanzure 21:57 < nmz787> the oligo wouldnt necessarily complex with itself 21:57 < nmz787> hello 21:57 < earcaraxe> Stee just tipped me off to this channel 21:57 < ParahSailin> why not ssdna ligase 21:58 -!- Stee| is now known as Steel_ 21:58 < kanzure> ParahSailin: ? 21:58 < nmz787> with ligase I still see the problem of repeats 21:58 < yashgaroth> ^ 21:58 < Steel_> there we go 21:58 < earcaraxe> nice nice. 21:58 < earcaraxe> well, uh, introductions are in order i suppose 21:58 < kanzure> nope we don't care 21:59 < earcaraxe> well that was easy 21:59 < kanzure> .. nah, go ahead. 21:59 < earcaraxe> i just flew in from #reddit-nootropics and boy are my arms tired 22:00 < nmz787> OK, my original idea was to simulate the base-pairing electronically on some silicon/semiconductor array, a bunch of electrodes that looked complementary to the bases at digital control 22:00 < nmz787> but basically that's impossible forseeably in engineering today 22:00 < earcaraxe> anyway i run smarternootropics.com, i've heard that you kanzure are formerly associated with humanity+ 22:00 < nmz787> because the pairing control for each base is Angstroms apart 22:00 < kanzure> earcaraxe: i was director of r&d of humanity+ until i came to my seses 22:00 < kanzure> *senses 22:01 < earcaraxe> for some reason i read that as sens 22:01 < kanzure> earcaraxe: i was working on a nootropics price search engine based on scraping, btw 22:01 < ParahSailin> heh i was a researcher for sens 22:01 < kanzure> earcaraxe: http://drugstack.com/ 22:01 < nmz787> so replace digitally controlable silicon base pairs with oligos 22:01 < earcaraxe> what are you up to post-humanity+? 22:01 < nmz787> use pol to extend 22:01 < nmz787> change template 22:01 < nmz787> repeat 22:01 < earcaraxe> loading up drugstack 22:02 < kanzure> nmz787: doesn't that require iffy hybridization 22:02 < nmz787> i don't think its iffy 22:02 < earcaraxe> drugstack was at humanity+ or on your own? 22:02 < kanzure> earcaraxe: my own thing 22:02 < earcaraxe> active project? 22:02 < nmz787> PCR works on 20mers 22:02 < kanzure> sorta kinda 22:03 < nmz787> when there's tons of non-specific genomic DNA 22:03 < kanzure> where the hell are you going to get a 20mer library 22:03 < earcaraxe> well the homepage has a sleek template 22:03 < nmz787> so when its a single growing strand on a bead (or 10000), i think most of the parameters are known 22:03 < kanzure> earcaraxe: yeah i get paid for things like that 22:03 < earcaraxe> perhaps we can collaborate, since smart drug collaboration just makes sense 22:03 < kanzure> earcaraxe: probably.. 22:04 < earcaraxe> i'm a web developer but more backend 22:04 < kanzure> earcaraxe: me too 22:04 < kanzure> that's on a shitty heroku instance, so that's why it took a few seconds 22:04 < earcaraxe> freelance now or are you with an organization post-humanity+ 22:05 < kanzure> contracting. 22:05 < kanzure> humanity+ was just terrible 22:05 < ParahSailin> what is humanity+ 22:05 < kanzure> humanity+ is the old world transhumanist association 22:05 < Steel_> what became of the world transhumanist association 22:05 < Steel_> after David Pearce left, iirc 22:05 < fenn> TdT polymerase adds random nucleotides to ssDNA 22:06 < kanzure> fenn: so does tth 22:06 < kanzure> regarding tdt, cathal had a few thoughts: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/polymerase/tdt.txt 22:07 < fenn> earcaraxe: opinion on magnesium suppplements? 22:07 < earcaraxe> fenn: i take them when i take adderall 22:07 < kanzure> earcaraxe: i take adderall by the handful 22:07 < kanzure> well not quite. i don't have immunity to it. 22:07 < earcaraxe> fenn: seems to decrease tolerance a bit 22:07 < kanzure> *tolerance 22:07 < earcaraxe> but really mine's just anecdotal 22:08 < kanzure> fenn: there's new stuff in http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/polymerase/ 22:08 < earcaraxe> i spent some time looking for actual studies, but wasn't able to find an clinical trials 22:09 < kanzure> earcaraxe: the other missing piece of drugstack.com is auto-ordering from multiple websites simultaneously 22:09 < fenn> i've seen some nutritionist stuff complaining about widespread Mg deficiency 22:09 < earcaraxe> kanzure: i probably shouldn't admit it, but i just came off a five day adderall/4-FA binge 22:09 < fenn> no function-oriented studies though 22:09 < kanzure> yashgaroth: so it sounds like we don't have a ligation method 22:09 < yashgaroth> sure we do, ligase is fine just fine 22:09 < earcaraxe> cleaned the house, refluxed and resoldered the RSX chip on a PS3 22:09 < kanzure> yashgaroth: i'm so confused 22:09 < kanzure> 21:58 < nmz787> with ligase I still see the problem of repeats 22:09 < kanzure> 21:58 < yashgaroth> ^ 22:10 < yashgaroth> but there's no repeats 22:10 < kanzure> nmz787: why is ligase bad? 22:11 < kanzure> earcaraxe: 5 days and you just cleaned? come on man :) 22:11 < yashgaroth> you've got your growing strand with a 3nt overhand, the correct 6mer comes in and gets ligated, bam new 3nt overhang, repeat 22:11 < yashgaroth> hang* 22:11 < kanzure> 3nt overhand is a bruce lee attack 22:12 < earcaraxe> kanzure: there were two full days and nights of underground partying going on as well, i confess. 22:12 < yashgaroth> I wish we had tiny bruce lees to assemble our fragments 22:12 < kanzure> earcaraxe: i usually do coding binges 22:12 < kanzure> and just bill for the entire time 22:13 < earcaraxe> i also wrote a scraper for google alerts 22:13 < earcaraxe> that uses a summarization API to write summaries 22:13 < earcaraxe> and then syndicate to tumblr, facebook, and twitter 22:13 < kanzure> ah that's better 22:13 < kanzure> ok that's kinda useful 22:13 < kanzure> for scrapers i've been pimping http://phantomjs.org/ 22:13 < earcaraxe> and i was spending some time trying to decide how best to use it for SEO 22:13 < kanzure> no more beautifulsoup, nokogiri, lxml, or mechanize ever again 22:14 < earcaraxe> oh i just wrote my own regex 22:14 < kanzure> oh god 22:14 < kanzure> don't make me kick you 22:14 -!- SDr [SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has quit [] 22:14 < klafka> LOL 22:14 < klafka> please 22:14 < earcaraxe> this looks much easier 22:14 < klafka> don't write your own regex 22:15 < earcaraxe> god i've been in here five minutes and i've already made enemies 22:15 < nmz787> yashagaroth: so you're not saying blunt end ligation? 22:15 < yashgaroth> good god no 22:16 < yashgaroth> it's like...I can't think of a better term than stepladdering extension at the moment 22:16 < nmz787> ok lemm think 22:16 -!- Steel [~Steel@cpe-67-246-36-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:16 < nmz787> worst case is you want to extend AAA,AAA 22:16 < nmz787> you start with ATG already present 22:16 < fenn> earcaraxe: kanzure is just jealous because his nootropics site is so far behind :P 22:16 < nmz787> just for kicks 22:16 < kanzure> solution: don't do that, or we can have some mers that do repeats 22:17 < kanzure> earcaraxe: it's true 22:17 < earcaraxe> haha i'm flattered 22:17 < fenn> worse is better it seems 22:17 < kanzure> yeah it shouldn't be hard to have a 5nt A, a 6nt A, a 10nt A 22:17 < yashgaroth> well yes, but unless you have more than 6 of the same base in a row, you're fine, though it is a problem 22:17 < nmz787> well lets think about how the ligase will work 22:17 < nmz787> it won't be ligating the same end of the oligo each time 22:18 < nmz787> so this might give us some control 22:18 < kanzure> we might have to switch out ligases 22:18 < kanzure> ? 22:18 < nmz787> via BAP and PNK 22:18 < yashgaroth> I haven't really looked into ligase mechanics yet 22:19 < kanzure> ParahSailin: any thoughts 22:19 < nmz787> well your stepladdering proposal would use that 22:19 -!- Steel_ [~Steel@cpe-67-246-36-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:19 < kanzure> fenn: keep this. http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/training-bootcamp.pdf 22:20 < yashgaroth> hey man, kanz wanted a way to generate 6mers in droplets, that's all I've done 22:20 < kanzure> fenn: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/training-bootcamp.tex 22:22 < ParahSailin> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC291858/?tool=pubmed 22:22 < earcaraxe> just throwing this out there 22:22 < earcaraxe> but none of you guys know a tattoo parlor that'll put a magnet in my finger do you? 22:22 < earcaraxe> seems like the guys who did that one for the wired chick don't want to do any others 22:23 < Steel> earcaraxe: there's a thread discussing that in my forum, but there's also biohack.me 22:23 < earcaraxe> Steel: i'll pop over 22:23 < Steel> ianmathwiz7 posted that he did his himself 22:24 < nmz787> yashagaroth: yes i understand that 22:24 < nmz787> yashagaroth: i'm talking about how to use them 22:24 < ParahSailin> a lot of what i worked with was protein engineering, so i confess a lot of solutions i think of involve new enzymes 22:25 < nmz787> optoisomerization of something near the tDt active site... or somewhere on tDt that on optoisomerization disrupted the active site 22:25 < nmz787> then you could probably do short pulses to get single nt addition 22:25 < earcaraxe> ok i'm gonna get some sleep 22:25 < earcaraxe> ttyl 22:26 < earcaraxe> you guys are on my white board so i'll pop in next time i'm on irc 22:26 < ParahSailin> optoisomerization huh 22:26 < earcaraxe> Steel - are you Steel on your forum? 22:26 < Steel> yes 22:26 < yashgaroth> oh, is this modifying tdt to respond to a wavelength with a specific nt? 22:27 < earcaraxe> ok, i'll pop you a note tomorrow 22:27 < yashgaroth> err, adding a specific nt 22:27 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:28 < nmz787> not a specific nt 22:29 < nmz787> just on off 22:29 < nmz787> then you could easily wash 22:29 < nmz787> with the 4 diff nt types 22:29 < nmz787> this is awesome: http://people.bu.edu/alexserg/Impression_Book.pdf 22:32 < kanzure> why isn't cathal in here. hrm 22:32 < kanzure> stupid timezones 22:32 < yashgaroth> is he often? 22:32 < kanzure> no 22:33 < nmz787> just filter out the few participants in this discussion and email it to him 22:34 < kanzure> that's not how irc works :P 22:34 < kanzure> but yeah.. 22:34 < kanzure> or he could just, you know, come online once in a while 22:35 < kanzure> nmz787: ParahSailin was talking about a non-pneumatic valve earlier, 22:35 < kanzure> based on nanopores? 22:35 -!- earcaraxe [4b5c5e98@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.92.94.152] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:35 < nmz787> hmm 22:35 < nmz787> interesting 22:35 < Steel> time to rewrite this simulation from scratch again, sigh 22:35 < kanzure> A Bi-Directional Electrostatic Microvalve with Microsecond Switching Performance 22:35 < kanzure> Fluidic Communication Between Multiple Vertically Segregated Microfluidic Channels Connected by Nanocapillary Array Membranes 22:36 < kanzure> Design and Fabrication of a Multilayered Polymer Microfluidic Chip with Nanofluidic Interconnects via Adhesive Contact Printing 22:36 < Steel> need those papers, kanz? 22:36 < nmz787> i think MEMS might be exploitable if we only need the dielectric valves 22:36 < kanzure> Steel: would be nice 22:36 < kanzure> Steel: but i haven't checked if i have access yet 22:36 < Steel> first one doesn't show up for me on gscholar 22:36 < Steel> second one is public 22:36 < kanzure> second one is http://mechse.illinois.edu/research/shannon/publications/pdf/2008electroMG.pdf 22:36 < Steel> third is public too 22:37 < kanzure> http://mechse.illinois.edu/research/shannon/publications/pdf/2006LabChipBRF.pdf 22:37 < Steel> anyway, gotta go rewrite my sim again 22:37 < Steel> bbl 22:37 < nmz787> i have access to the first 22:38 < kanzure> is it interesting :p 22:39 < nmz787> yeah 22:39 < nmz787> pretty sweet 22:40 < nmz787> seems like MEMS magnetics 22:40 < nmz787> an electrode in the PDMS layer that is flexible 22:40 < kanzure> ehh how hard is it to embed electrodes o.o 22:41 < Steel> hmm 22:41 < Steel> what size scale are we talking here 22:41 < Steel> btw 22:41 < kanzure> there was a reference in some paper i was reading, where they used a physical pin array to control channels at arbitrary points 22:41 < kanzure> and just press the pins down :P 22:42 < kanzure> Steel: ideally microvalves 22:42 < Steel> no, I mean the electrode 22:42 < kanzure> ~100 micron channel width 22:42 < kanzure> oh 22:43 < nmz787> kanzure: check email 22:43 < Steel> anyway, my setup can print electronics fairly easily 22:43 < nmz787> you've got mail 22:43 < Steel> silver, at least 22:44 < nmz787> i've heard you pattern two metals over different resistance on top of eachother, like an old home thermostat 22:44 < kanzure> nmz787: cool 22:44 < kanzure> thanks 22:44 < nmz787> and they deflect when current is applied 22:44 < nmz787> and that makes a nice MEMS valve 22:44 < Steel> hmmm 22:44 < Steel> we could do that pretty easily 22:44 < Steel> 2um wide? 22:44 < Steel> *once the control software is there 22:45 < kanzure> haha we're ok in the software department 22:45 < Steel> nah, I meant for my setup 22:45 < Steel> I think the thinnest lines have been 500nm so far 22:46 < Steel> granted, until you have the necessary motor stages you can't do shit with ejet printing 22:50 < nmz787> who drew the oligo making drawing? 22:50 < kanzure> yashgaroth 22:50 < kanzure> and his manly ms paint skills 22:50 < yashgaroth> that was my company's copy of powerpoint actually 22:50 < kanzure> you gave me.. an image.. of a powerpoint slide 22:50 < nmz787> yashagaroth, the stepladder seems like it will just fine with repeats and ligase 22:51 < yashgaroth> did you print it out yet kanz 22:51 < yashgaroth> like I say, we should test it out with a batch of 6mers from a synthesis company to get some idea of feasibility 22:51 < nmz787> yashagaroth, kanzure: phosphatase and polynucleotide kinase are required as well, but that should be fine 22:51 < nmz787> its really nice i think actually 22:52 < nmz787> i need to get to bed 22:52 < nmz787> i will draw it with my tablet PC tomorrow 22:52 < nmz787> and send it to the webs 22:52 < yashgaroth> excellent 22:52 < kanzure> man, why don't *i* have a tablet pc 22:52 < nmz787> you're too hacker 22:52 < nmz787> you have adderall 22:52 < nmz787> therefore no tablet pc 22:53 < kanzure> ah that makes sense? 22:53 < kanzure> seeya 22:53 < nmz787> lol 22:53 < nmz787> no 22:53 < nmz787> :/ 22:53 < nmz787> sleepy 22:53 < nmz787> night night 22:53 < yashgaroth> you see, adderall comes in tablets, so 22:53 -!- nmz787 [43f2b117@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.242.177.23] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:54 < yashgaroth> I do still have the original slide if you want that too, but since it's perfect already I saw no need :P 22:57 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:57 < delinquentme> kanzure, yo 22:57 < kanzure> delinquentme: sup 22:57 < delinquentme> I've been in ##hplusroadmap for five minutes, mentioned writing my own regex, and was summarily kicked and banned. << 22:57 < delinquentme> ?? 22:58 < kanzure> he was totally joking 22:58 < kanzure> he's not banned, he's coming back 22:59 < delinquentme> check! 22:59 < delinquentme> cant sleep 22:59 < delinquentme> gotta snif up on sinatra 22:59 < kanzure> delinquentme: http://gnusha.org/logs/2012-02-15.log 22:59 < kanzure> sinatra's nice, let me know if you need help 23:02 < delinquentme> cool so Steel invited him 23:03 < delinquentme> its so crazy to me how connections work 23:03 < delinquentme> immmm not even sure how he got on my FB friends list 23:04 < kanzure> the world is collapsing and irrelevant people are being replaced to compress the social network 23:04 < kanzure> you see, when facebook started keeping track of social graphs the universe ran out of additional RAM 23:04 < kanzure> too much metadata 23:04 < kanzure> as a result the effects of 'small world syndrome' have been increasing exponentially 23:06 * kanzure sleeps 23:14 < strangewarp> the number of things increasing at an exponential rate seems to be increasing exponentially 23:16 < kanzure> i think my formulation is wrong, you should get fenn to write it out formally for once 23:18 < delinquentme> ha 23:25 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-24-94-5-223.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:34 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-62-53.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:37 -!- Steel2_ [43f624a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.246.36.165] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:37 < Steel2_> some simulation issues solved yay 23:46 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-92-227.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Thu Feb 16 00:00:12 2012