--- Log opened Mon Feb 20 00:00:18 2012 00:44 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-24-94-5-223.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:03 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:08 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:04 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: nuba_ 02:08 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:15 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-211-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:37 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:43 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:59 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:18 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:25 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:29 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:31 < chris_99> anyone done IR spectography before? 03:32 < chris_99> *spectroscopy 03:44 -!- utopiah [~utopiah@rps7452.ovh.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:44 < utopiah> what's your favorite QuantifiedSelf Show&Tell video? (including the ones done by people in this chatroom) 03:47 < Steel2> I don't even know what the hell that is 03:48 < utopiah> presentation for http://quantifiedself.com 03:49 < utopiah> during meetings people come and show what they have done (rather than discuss theory) 03:49 < utopiah> or advertize products 04:26 -!- yottabit [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:13 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-71-59-241-82.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:14 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-71-59-241-82.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:15 -!- yottabit [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 05:30 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:34 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:48 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:59 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@cpc21-broo7-2-0-cust83.14-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:21 -!- qnm [~qnm@2001:44b8:3110:f300:208:9bff:fec0:179a] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:22 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23 -!- qnm [~qnm@2001:44b8:3110:f300:208:9bff:fec0:179a] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:47 < kanzure> `At least a University with a backbone! Others for example in Canada let publishers sift through the private emails of their faculty members so they can spot copyright violations ( http://www.cautbulletin.ca/).` 06:48 < nsh_> first against the wall, &c. 06:50 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.35] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:16 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil] 07:25 -!- Steel2 [43f624a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.246.36.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:28 -!- klafka [~textual@12.157.117.194] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:29 -!- klafka [~textual@12.157.117.194] has quit [Client Quit] 07:49 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:49 -!- jmil [~jmil@SEASNet-148-05.seas.upenn.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:23 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:36 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:10 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:14 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:40 -!- SDr [~SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:05 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@cpc21-broo7-2-0-cust83.14-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:36 -!- jmil [~jmil@SEASNet-148-05.seas.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: jmil] 10:39 -!- jmil [~jmil@2607:f470:8:3148:5536:d102:2620:c185] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:49 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-211-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:57 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:19 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:35 -!- yottabit [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:39 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:41 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:00 * ybit digs around and tosses three trouts into the center of the room 12:05 < yottabit> fenn: what have you been working on lately 12:07 < yottabit> kanzure: did you finish the pr disassembly? 12:08 < yottabit> fenn: i'm a bit confused by your log, not enough info to properly stalk without talking with you directly which defeats the entire concept 12:09 < yottabit> ..of stalking 12:10 < kanzure> yottabit: the pokered disassembly is going fine 12:10 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:10 < kanzure> yottabit: http://bitbucket.org/kanzure/pokered/changesets 12:11 < kanzure> there's still a few hundred thousand bytes left 12:11 < kanzure> bank $7 has a lot of music and is completely undissasembled 12:11 < kanzure> i disassembled most of the textbanks though, i don't think there's much left on that front 12:29 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:30 < ParahSailin__> does anyone know what sort of royalty stream breakoutlabs expects? 12:31 < kanzure> stream? well they put numbers on their site 12:31 < kanzure> https://www.breakoutlabs.org/faqs.html 12:31 < ParahSailin__> right im there, i just dont see numbers 12:31 < kanzure> oh they removed it? 12:32 < kanzure> "We have two forms of funding agreements: a research grant, in which the researcher commits a royalty stream and company warrants back to Breakout Labs in the event of successful commercialization and an IP agreement, in which Breakout Labs retains IP and commits a royalty stream back to the applicant in the event of successful commercialization." 12:33 < kanzure> it used to be more specific.. let me see if i have a backup 12:36 < kanzure> welp. no i don't. 12:38 < kanzure> wait, neither of those are the traditional funding models 12:38 < kanzure> the second one is extremely aggressive 12:45 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:48 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:07 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:10 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.35] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:18 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:26 -!- yottabit [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:28 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:31 -!- yottabit [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:45 < _sol_> I got a crazy one... just as a joke I guess.. DIY comparative anatomy and bio... 14:45 < _sol_> not just on game or farm animals... 14:45 < _sol_> I guess ya might piss off some PETA ppl in the least and maybe step on vet laws at most 14:46 < _sol_> although 100 yrs ago, most DIY was clear and in the open... 14:46 < _sol_> I guess ya could do it on hunting season though.. just preservation... 14:47 < _sol_> the problem is if I want to do primates and humans I'll need to find some volunteers and a storage locker... :P I guess the local DIY butcher bio-amatuer sci is ou tof hte question for private contracted biosciences unless the libertarians take over and the extreme libetarians tear down the FDA and a few other agencies along with state regs on medical practice ... j/king 14:48 < _sol_> 1850s live theatrical anatomy and vivisectioning of larger animals with vivication via electrical stimulation... I guess those DIYers won't be able to do tha tagain 'xept on small animals... 14:48 < Mokbortolan_> just go to Germany, I'm sure you can find someone with a fetish for being dissected 14:49 < Mokbortolan_> Craigslist FTW! 14:49 < _sol_> heh... I did have htis weird thought before about what the world would look like with some libetarian in US who tear down the medical laws, ya might get some breakthroughs faster but alot of private contracts will jamlog the courts over the ppl who they fail to deliver the breakthroughs on 14:50 < _sol_> contracts would be jamming the courts... 14:50 < _sol_> H+ might come alot faster 14:50 < _sol_> but at the expense of crooked contracts with lawyers and doctors seeking test subjects I think 14:52 < _sol_> and ya'd have pottown on one side of the tracks and deadheadville farther out with the harddrug party scene that is heavily taxed run by some screwy cops and some lords of the drugs... be it some weird legit world... 14:52 < _sol_> anyway, just bad ideas I think for alot of sutff whcih is why I'm not a pure libertarian transhumanist 14:53 < uniqanomaly_> _sol_: just make few billions and fund all the research no matter how unethical in some bunker in africa 14:53 < _sol_> ya prob... 14:53 < _sol_> I could start the cross breeding program 14:53 < _sol_> and pay some indian mothers to incubate the embryo to term 14:53 < uniqanomaly_> nah 14:53 < _sol_> until I get some bioreactor biomed research finished 14:53 < _sol_> heh 14:53 < uniqanomaly_> all you need is Nikola Tesla's DNA 14:53 < _sol_> er likew a artificial womb 14:54 < uniqanomaly_> like 100 clones 14:54 < uniqanomaly_> you get singularity in 15 years 14:54 < _sol_> I'm pragmatic. I think social inertia will delay alot of this stuff 14:54 < _sol_> the basic transhumanism that is... 14:54 < _sol_> not talking the fantastic and far out 14:54 < uniqanomaly_> and thats why you just can't rely on it 14:54 < _sol_> social inertia and govt regs 14:55 < _sol_> I mean the lobbiest could form a brick wall against some research that ya'd have to really create a spectacle to tear down 14:55 < _sol_> conservative and religious lobby 14:55 < _sol_> I think gene therapy is still off limits after some kid died at john hopkins decade or more back 14:56 < uniqanomaly_> hmm heres an idea 14:56 < _sol_> but I don't recall the details of that study except they cross contaminated the engineered virus with some flu bug or something by accident and he died of an infection 14:56 < uniqanomaly_> H+ people learning acting at hollywood level and skilling human interaction and brainwashing 14:56 < uniqanomaly_> like few hundred of them 14:56 < _sol_> a few movies might help 14:56 < _sol_> I thought of that. 14:56 < uniqanomaly_> and taking over all poliics 14:56 < _sol_> There hasn't been really any H+ movies. 14:57 < uniqanomaly_> screv movies, I mean acting and brainwashing for voters 14:57 < _sol_> We need a speilberg with poliitcal and scientology connections. I heard a bunch of wealthy actors believe in scientology so heh... 14:57 < _sol_> if ya want those powers scientology promised... star in these films 14:57 < _sol_> :P 14:58 < _sol_> or not 14:58 < _sol_> well, I htink movies bring in abit of revenue and search as PR for tech in some sense 14:58 < _sol_> not that many watch documentaries as movies 14:58 < _sol_> er I mean search=serve as 14:59 < _sol_> I think kurzweil was suppose to create some fictional movie, but it turned into a documentary I think 14:59 < uniqanomaly_> I was talking about hollywood-level acting, brainwashing, human interaction with application in politics 14:59 < _sol_> oh... 14:59 < _sol_> public spin games? 15:00 < uniqanomaly_> few hundred of h+ people with hidden agenda play they way through to highest levels of power 15:00 < _sol_> I mean someone who can twist the public by charm and appeal to a particular agenda without letting everyone in on it. 15:01 < _sol_> It's already in the republican party. It's called Supersoldier something of 2020 or some odd date that I recall reading about. They have these ideas from battle suits to bioengineering for soldiers. They also have the huge influx of robotic money coming from DARPA. 15:01 < kanzure> yeah, recovering nikola tesla's dna is on my todo list 15:01 < kanzure> there's a lot of graves i'd like to dig up for dna 15:02 < _sol_> and the democrats have stem cells and somehow the middle ground conservatives want to swing either side to mix pro-life and biotech into one big anti-agenda 15:02 < _sol_> so ... 15:02 < _sol_> hmm 15:02 < _sol_> ,er and=but somehow the middle... 15:02 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:04 < _sol_> I guess they fear biotech firms buying out the bio tissues from abortion clinics which from a business standpoint I would see someone somewhere trying to cash in to use it as some sort of feedstock for the early developmental cells and stem cells and stuff, but ya know ya'd get such a huge reaction out o fthat business proposal in politics I mean...forget it... 15:05 < kanzure> who's doing the fearing? what? 15:05 < _sol_> its like start with embryos, open it up to 1st term, and then ya'd have a whole experimental industry... well, the religious conservative probably have some nightmere scenarios in there head 15:05 < _sol_> but then if the mothe rsigns off her biotissue as hers and to sell it for whatever.. then 15:05 < _sol_> bu tthen that opens a can of political worms 15:05 < _sol_> er their heads 15:06 < _sol_> I've just debated this with some philosophy people before playing the devil's advocate so I've seen some reactions... 15:06 < _sol_> some ppl are very opinionated and/or belief hardened to one view 15:07 < _sol_> I mean they already carve up people into body bags for experimental and transplant research/donation from donors in accidents and at death.... 15:08 < _sol_> I remember watching this company that collects musculoskeletal tissue from donors to turn into I guess tissue parts for orthopedic research and replacements 15:08 < _sol_> I guess extra tendons, cartilage etc... they have this huge biotech factory tha tdoes that I saw on some taboo show on national geographic before... 15:08 < _sol_> it was like bodybag city 15:08 < _sol_> they use everything 15:09 < _sol_> after they take the major orgons out 15:09 -!- Juul [~Juul@slim.dhcp.lbl.gov] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:09 < _sol_> anyway 15:19 < kanzure> someone should make a scholar.google.com interface that extracts graphs/charts/tables based on your query 15:26 < kanzure> bleh that someone is going to have to be me isn't it 15:27 -!- delinquentme_ [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:27 < Juul> kanzure, always 15:28 < Juul> you still working on skdb kanzure? 15:29 < Juul> hm, last update two years ago? 15:31 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:31 < kanzure> Juul: the most recent skdb-related work i've done is the commits in the lolcad repository 15:31 < kanzure> because i figured i needed better cad 15:31 < Juul> ok 15:32 < kanzure> cad is sorta tricky heh 15:32 < Juul> i believe you 15:33 < Juul> what's your main project nowadays? 15:33 < kanzure> right now i'm working on a microfluidic dna synthesizer 15:34 < Juul> :) 15:35 < kanzure> Juul: do you have a post-lbl plan? 15:36 < Juul> kanzure, i have a few ideas. i'm meeting with drew endy tomorrow and i'll see what he has to offer. 15:37 < kanzure> hrmm that's not quite what i imagined when you said you wanted to live as a scruffy freedom hacker for a while 15:37 < kanzure> :P 15:37 < kanzure> iirc drew is still being drew at his stanford lab? 15:37 < Juul> hehe, yeah he is. yeah i'm not really keen on staying with the BIOFAB post shutdown/transformation, but i want to talk to drew before making any decisions. 15:38 < kanzure> makes sense 15:38 < Juul> i do need a visa, so maybe i can have something part time 15:38 < Juul> but otherwise i'm working on a decentralized trust-group-based file-sharing platform 15:38 < Juul> kinda like dropbox but peer to peer 15:38 < Juul> and usable without an internet connection 15:39 < kanzure> thesnark (in here) keeps claiming he's been working on a better-than-freenet p2p caching thing for paper sharing 15:39 < kanzure> but i haven't seen any code yet 15:39 < Juul> ok 15:39 < Juul> that sounds like a complex project 15:39 < Juul> freenet is not simple 15:39 < kanzure> yeah, a syncable sneakernet thing would be nice 15:39 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-24-94-5-223.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:40 < kanzure> hi yashgaroth 15:40 < yashgaroth> 'lo 15:40 < Juul> mm, first version will have zeroconf support for just connecting a bunch of computers on a LAN / ad-hock wifi 15:40 < Juul> but eventually i'll want to integrate wifi meshing, sneakernet sync, bluetooth, etc. 15:40 < kanzure> so people keep telling me that mail order dna synthesis is better than having a device 15:41 < kanzure> but this just boggles my mind.. first, synthesis prices over the web are outrageous and impractical for doing really interesting things 15:41 < Juul> bah, i'm sure they said that about mainframes vs. personal computers 15:41 < kanzure> well $0.20/bp is like saying you're okay with $0.20/transistor on your chip.. yeah right 15:41 < Juul> mmm 15:41 < kanzure> and even considering that, oligo prices are supposedly 'falling' (or so rob claims) 15:41 < kanzure> but what's their business model when it falls to $0.0001/bp 15:42 < Juul> eventually we'll have in-vivo dna synthesis, where you just grow a culture while controlling enzyme operation with e.g. flickering LEDs 15:42 < kanzure> yeah of course 15:42 < kanzure> but nobody has invented that yet ;) 15:42 < Juul> yeah it's gonna take a while 15:42 < kanzure> right now i am interested in a very simple chemical oligo synthesizer (for 20-30 bp max) 15:42 < yottabit> i never saw this two years ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_piO849uRdI :: autonomous sliding parallel parking 15:42 < kanzure> and an oligo library device 15:42 < Juul> i agree that desktop synthesis is the way to go. 15:43 < kanzure> one of the difficulties i am having is convincing some people of that 15:43 < kanzure> even andrew hessel says he prefers mail order synthesis 15:43 < kanzure> which boggles my mind. 15:43 < Juul> well it's likely because they don't realize how reliable and cheap desktop synthesis can get 15:43 < kanzure> joseph jackson too. 15:43 < Juul> and how a centralized business model will not be able to compete at all 15:44 < Juul> for now it makes sense to use mail order synthesis 15:44 < kanzure> well i would think our own cells are good examples of super cheap synthesis 15:44 < Juul> but very soon it won't 15:44 < Juul> exactly 15:44 < kanzure> $5/day in food = 100 billion cells making dna each day 15:44 < Juul> we "just" need to be able to control the synthesis with outside input instead of having it based on templates 15:45 < Juul> i've been thinking about how to accomplish that 15:45 < kanzure> everyone has. 15:45 < kanzure> absolutely everyone. 15:45 < kanzure> i think we should organize those people somehow he 15:45 < kanzure> *heh 15:45 < Juul> well, everyone with any form of vision 15:45 < kanzure> ParahSailin__ recently joined this chan 15:45 < kanzure> and he's had the same thoughts, which was nice to find 15:45 < kanzure> but fenn, you, i think yashgaroth said it too, cathal, nathan, andrew.. 15:46 < kanzure> if you want my notes on the topic, see http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/polymerase/ 15:46 < yashgaroth> I'm still a bit more cautious than everyone else you mentioned, but yes you can include me on the list 15:46 < kanzure> i think it would be useful to get those people collaborating somehow 15:47 < kanzure> it's tempting to think that you're going to 'crack the code' on your own, but that probably won't happen 15:47 < Juul> ok i'll have a look at your notes 15:47 < kanzure> well anyway-- 15:47 < Juul> yeah collaboration is the way to go 15:47 < kanzure> i'd also appreciate advice on how to convince people against mail order synthesis 15:47 < kanzure> i need some sort of structural argument if i'm going to be pitching to investors soon 15:48 < Juul> which is one of the reasons i'll likely be working to create better tools for small heterarchical groups 15:48 < kanzure> i have a few meetings lined up, and this particular question has been killing me in some conversations 15:49 < kanzure> heh it's also a little awkward.. old school vc is for high risk, high reward ventures 15:49 < kanzure> but dna synthesis is surprisingly low risk 15:49 < kanzure> /services/ are low reward 15:49 < Juul> hm, i'd compare it to other industries. pick a few that have moved from centralized to desktop, some that have partially moved, and some that haven't. then show what caused the move to desktop to happen in those cases, and why it's still preferable to have centralized business models in others. identify the factors that make the difference between "centralized long-term sustainable" vs the opposite 15:49 < Juul> then apply that to the case of DNA synthesis 15:50 < kanzure> printers? heh 15:50 < Juul> printers have partially moved 15:50 < Juul> computing has completely moved 15:50 < Juul> eletronics components have not really moved at all 15:50 < Juul> though an argument can be made for FPGAs being a bit of a move 15:50 < yashgaroth> just find some ex-SV vc people and tell them it'll be like when we went from mainframes to desktops, they'll love it 15:51 < kanzure> yashgaroth: haha, i've always been confused by everyone using the 'homebrew computer club' as a comparison to diybio 15:51 < kanzure> people love that analogy, but i don't know if it works 15:51 < yashgaroth> you don't need the whole metaphor, just the sense of "a computer in every house" 15:51 < kanzure> and the people who love that analogy are usually not the people who would have been members of the homebrew computer club anyway 15:52 < Juul> kanzure, it will work if you, in a DIYBIO setting, make affordable effective microfluidics available to everyone :) 15:52 < kanzure> Juul: sure.. i have no doubt that it will work out 15:52 < kanzure> but i need to relay this to other people if i want more funding than my own 15:52 < Juul> i meant the metaphor will work out 15:53 < kanzure> oh. hrm. 15:53 < Juul> i'm sure you're sure of your own project, or you wouldn't be doing it :) 15:53 < yashgaroth> you don't necessarily need to push the desktop aspect, just that it'd be cheaper than the current methods, which presumably it will be 15:54 < kanzure> it's interesting to note that oxnano has realized this for sequencing 15:54 < kanzure> i.e. a cheap device opens up the market 15:54 < kanzure> *grows the market 15:55 < Juul> well, the main thing that causes centralization to be less expensive in some cases is high startup and maintenance costs, where you either need a large initial investment or there are continued running costs that can only be justified if you have a high level of utilization of the equipment 15:55 < kanzure> i think a good argument against mail order dna synthesis companies is that when the price drops to $0.00001/bp they will not exist anymore 15:56 < yashgaroth> where did you get that figure from 15:56 < kanzure> i am just making it up 15:56 < kanzure> they still need to be able to pay for their employees 15:56 < Juul> well, you could have very cheap synthesis which is only very cheap if you buy expensive machines and utilize them at close to 100% to offset the initial investment and baseline per-day running costs, and then centralization would still be preferred. 15:56 < Juul> you need to show that this will not be true 15:56 < kanzure> then there's reagents and equipment (which, let's say, is some fixed investment that we can factor out) 15:57 < kanzure> right 15:57 < kanzure> i've been writing a simple python script 15:57 < kanzure> that calculates the operating costs of a dna synthesis service 15:57 < Juul> cool 15:57 < Juul> the kanzure equation 15:57 < kanzure> so at minimum they have reagents, initial investment in equipment, maintenance on equipment, marketing costs, and salaries 15:57 < kanzure> i think salaries are the big one for dna synthesis services 15:58 < yashgaroth> really? it's mostly automated 15:58 < kanzure> you still need people in the company 15:58 < Juul> there is a bunch of prep work still 15:58 < yashgaroth> someone to collect the money 15:58 < kanzure> marketing is a bit fuzzy 15:58 < kanzure> obv. competing dna synthesis services must dump money into marketing/advertising to compete with each other 15:59 < kanzure> if they aren't competing on price, it's on brand.. and that has its own costs 15:59 < kanzure> which, realistically, could be google adwords costs? heh 15:59 < kanzure> actually i really like that. it's easy to go get some cost per click estimates 16:00 < kanzure> i should probably be tracking that on google adwords. as cpc goes up over time it indicates stronger competition between oligo synthesis services 16:01 < kanzure> so anyway - there's a minimum operating cost for running a dna foundry 16:01 < Juul> the question is, if you can do synthesis with a low initial investment, no dedicated personnel, very little time-investment for prep/post procedures, no per-day running costs (only per-nucleotide), then what is the argument for using a centralized service? 16:01 < Juul> i can think of a few 16:01 < Juul> 1. it's still slightly easier 16:02 < Juul> 2. it still requires a bit of training and a bit of time and a bit of money to start using the desktop device 16:02 < yashgaroth> the FBI likes you better if it's centralized and recorded 16:02 < Juul> 3. they may have better quality assurance 16:03 < kanzure> #2 is sorta iffy.. you already need to be doing other biology lab activities in the first place. dna prep is a common operation. 16:03 < Juul> 4. it's easier to comply with government regulation 16:03 < Juul> kanzure, true 16:03 < kanzure> #3 is definitely true for now. i'd have to include a sequencer on the chip 16:03 < Juul> i think 3 and 4 are going to be the tough ones to handle 16:04 < Juul> when convincing VPs 16:04 < kanzure> #3 is an interesting problem for sure, but i think on-chip verification is a real possibility 16:04 < Juul> yeah 16:05 < Juul> if the target audience for your device is the DIYbio scientist in the U.S. then there is a chance that state laws, such as the one preventing you from using 23andme in New York, will block the sale of your device 16:05 < kanzure> i think that hobbyist use is super important 16:06 < kanzure> but lots of people will buy a $5k dna synthesizer 16:06 < Juul> yes 16:06 < Juul> so #3 is likely your main worry then 16:06 < Juul> i've seen companies use a more expensive third party solution because of _perceived_ better quality assurance 16:07 < Juul> sometimes it's easier to have someone outside to blame when something fails 16:07 < kanzure> i'm sure companies with big budgets would prefer more quality assurance 16:07 < kanzure> yeah for sure 16:07 < kanzure> "Gold Certified dna synthesis" 16:07 < Juul> yep 16:07 < yashgaroth> if you can get >10% of your syntheses of ~1kb to be correct, that's all you need 16:08 < yashgaroth> pick out 20 transformed colonies until you get a good one, and start stringing them together 16:09 < kanzure> well, if i make the chemical oligo chip first, i think only 10-20bp is expectable 16:09 < kanzure> the ligation chip can probably do better 16:10 < kanzure> granted, this is a 6 month outlook 16:10 < yashgaroth> yeah I mean the ligation step, 6mers are still pretty ideal 16:11 < Juul> kanzure, do you want to start a group around in-vivo / in-vitro synthesis? we could just put up a piratepad, wiki or mailing list? 16:12 < kanzure> yeah for sure 16:12 < kanzure> but what are you thinking when you say in vivo? are you talking about a polymerase mechanism, or something else? 16:13 -!- Lethena [~Lethena@71-89-34-94.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:14 < kanzure> hi Lethena 16:14 < Juul> i've only thought about using polymerases or enzymes with similar activity, existing or modified, plus possibly modified nucleotides, to accomplish this 16:14 < Lethena> Oh, hi! 16:14 < kanzure> Juul: i don't think a mailing list or wiki would accomplish things per-se, i think those would be useful tools to communicate 16:14 < kanzure> but 16:14 < kanzure> i think it should be a project to write/collaborate on a strategy doc 16:15 < kanzure> for imagining methods or experiments to develop this technology 16:15 < Juul> it would probably be useful to start with a brainstorm 16:15 < kanzure> of course 16:15 < Juul> to see what kinda ideas are out there 16:15 < kanzure> the doc could also include simulations/models of the pdb data, a rational protein engineering review and an analysis of existing known polymerases (of which are there are a shitload) 16:15 < Juul> we could have a long brainstorm 16:15 < Juul> oh 16:16 < Juul> yeah definitely 16:16 < Juul> i think the first goal should be to gather as many different ideas as possible, and the second to identify one or more most likely paths to a successful first partial or complete prototype 16:16 < kanzure> did you ever see the 'whole brain emulation review'? 16:17 < Juul> nope :) link? 16:17 < kanzure> there's lots of these types of docs i think, but i liked that one in particular 16:17 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/brain-emulation-roadmap-report.pdf 16:17 < kanzure> sorry. *whole brain emulation roadmap 16:17 < Juul> thanks! 16:18 < kanzure> does this seem like a good thing to aim for 16:18 < ParahSailin__> here, reading backlog 16:18 < Juul> kanzure, yeah i like it 16:19 < kanzure> Juul: just to clarify, do you currently have a thorough plan that you think would work? 16:19 < kanzure> 'cause everyone else i've talked with has been grasping at straws 16:21 < kanzure> the most expensive dna synthesizer on ebay is only $14k.. what's up with this? 16:22 < Juul> no, only half-ideas, like using the most unspecific polymerases available, then attempting to make modified nucleotides that are coupled to light-switchable proteins such that they become available only under light of a specific wavelengths, and coupling the two in-vitro to toggle availability of GATC as the polymerase progresses. even if that long-shot idea would work, you'd still need to somehow "clock" the polymerase, as the availability switching 16:22 < Juul> will be less than instant and the polymerase activity is stochastic 16:23 < kanzure> oh, light-switchable-proteins attached to *nucleotides* is a new one.. 16:23 < Juul> yeah :) 16:23 < Juul> since proteins are hard to modify 16:23 < kanzure> lots of the methods talked about in here have been things like, 16:23 < Juul> i suggest we attempt to find a solution that doesn't require any protein design 16:23 < kanzure> "well, sprinkle in some chromophores into polymerase and pray" 16:23 < Juul> hm 16:23 < kanzure> yeah, avoiding protein design would be nice 16:24 < kanzure> clocked polymerase would involve something like a "go ahead and polymerase / don't accept new nucleotides" and a "accept nucleotide but don't polymerize" mode that we could toggle it between 16:24 < kanzure> *and polymerize 16:24 < Juul> yeah 16:25 < Juul> we may be able to evolve such a protein, but i haven't come up with anything solid 16:25 < ParahSailin__> i did a lot of research on light-switchable proteins 16:25 < ParahSailin__> most of the existing work, too slow, too little change in activity 16:26 < kanzure> 1) electronic control of polymerase 16:26 < kanzure> 2) nucleotide gun made out of a nanotube pointed at the finger domain of dna polymerase 16:26 < kanzure> 3) single-polymerase water droplet & add in a single dNTP at a time 16:26 < kanzure> 4) physical display of dNTP as template for current base addition (i.e., on a stick) 16:26 < kanzure> 5) a protein that can undergo conformational changes that polymerase thinks represents the template strand 16:26 < kanzure> 6) pull/push a template through DNA polymerase to control which dNTP it should be selecting for 16:26 < ParahSailin__> i would look at something like physically distorting a protein, using an afm tip of magnetic microparticles 16:26 < kanzure> 7) protein-template DNA polymerase, where the polymerase itself has a giant protein that enzymatically encodes dNTP information 16:26 < kanzure> 8) graph grammar rules of valid thumb/fingers/pad/palm domains of polymerases to generate a library of possible polymerase variants 16:26 < kanzure> 9) mechanical pressure on polymerase 16:26 < kanzure> 10) ultrasound 16:26 < kanzure> oh could we magnetize a polymerase molecule? 16:26 < kanzure> that would be fun 16:26 < Juul> woah 16:27 < ParahSailin__> biotinylate a residue, used streptavidin-magnetic microsphere 16:27 < kanzure> yeah but you'd have the microsphere, not the polymerase at the end of the biotin 16:27 < Juul> magnetize it? there are examples of electromagnetic-switchable enzymes, but the effect is more subtle than light-switchable (not that light isn't electromagnetism, but you catch my meaning) 16:27 < ParahSailin__> afm tip *or magnetic 16:28 < kanzure> i mean, the polymerase wold be free-floating on the end of the strand 16:28 < ParahSailin__> then attach the polymerase on the other side to the well 16:28 < kanzure> Juul: nah, like magnetize it as a way to help get an afm tip locked on to it possibly 16:28 < Juul> oh 16:28 < ParahSailin__> afm tip separate idea from magnetic particles 16:28 < kanzure> oh okay. 16:28 < ParahSailin__> i got stuck on the napkin math for magnetic particles though 16:29 < ParahSailin__> i dont know what a reasonable switching rate or force would be 16:29 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:29 < kanzure> well there's also weird ideas like- 16:29 < kanzure> treating polymerase as a nanopore 16:31 < Juul> i wonder if it'd be possible to create a nucleotide-analog that looks like different nucleotides based on externally controlled factors. now i'm getting hand-wavy though 16:32 < kanzure> yeah, in some polymerases it's watson-crick base pairing rules 16:32 < kanzure> but there was one polymerase (in my paper dir) that was based on a residue that would do the matching 16:32 < kanzure> instead of nucleotide-nucleotide interactions 16:33 < Juul> interesting 16:36 < ParahSailin__> i would suggest using t4 polymerase as the starting point 16:36 < ParahSailin__> or something similarly small and well-characterized 16:37 < kanzure> well it might be required to do a computational search of currently-known polymerase structures 16:37 < kanzure> although i don't know what to look for. 16:38 < Juul> hm, i remember finding a couple of papers about a human polymerase that is _very_ error prone 16:40 < kanzure> is librusek the same thing as libgenesis 16:42 < kanzure> http://habrahabr.ru/ 16:43 < Juul> i don't think so no 16:44 < Juul> i think libgenesis is only scientific information 16:44 < Juul> and librusek is everything 16:46 < Juul> what is habrahabr ? 16:54 < kanzure> don't know yet 16:54 < kanzure> http://www.reddit.com/r/trackers/comments/pv6e9/librarynu_shut_down_and_sustitutes/ 16:54 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-181-247.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:58 < ParahSailin__> need a .onion service 17:04 -!- Lethena [~Lethena@71-89-34-94.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] 17:17 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i'd like to do a latex+git repository on diyhpl.us, 17:17 < kanzure> but it's cnoceivable some of the users will not know git 17:18 < kanzure> didn't you install an ikiwiki/latex thing previously? 17:27 < jrayhawk> http://ikiwiki.info/ikiwiki/directive/teximg/ Ikiwiki allows for embedded LaTeX using the [!teximg] directive. 17:29 < jrayhawk> gitit uses pandoc and allows for much more flexible whatever-to-whatever conversion 17:29 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-181-247.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31 < jrayhawk> http://psas.pdx.edu/KalmanIntro/ so here are some lovely TeXy equations, for example 17:31 < ParahSailin__> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2924904/?tool=pubmed 17:34 < ParahSailin__> switching time of magnet 350us 17:42 < jrayhawk> http://gitit.net/Math%20Example for example features latex-to-mathml 17:53 < jrayhawk> Anyway, if you want piny to support gitit, let me know. 18:08 -!- Steel2 [81a14814@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.161.72.20] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:11 -!- qnm [~qnm@2001:44b8:3110:f300:208:9bff:fec0:179a] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:12 -!- qnm [~qnm@2001:44b8:3110:f300:208:9bff:fec0:179a] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:16 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-191-158.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:28 -!- nchaimov [~nchaimov@c-67-171-214-94.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nchaimov] 18:32 < kanzure> jrayhawk: ideally it's something that i can export to pdf, but also visualize on the web 18:32 -!- nchaimov [~nchaimov@c-67-171-214-94.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:33 < kanzure> i know latex has lots of page formatting options, but presumably there's some simplification for displaying as html inside an ikiwiki template or whatever 18:37 < jrayhawk> Yeah, rendering to multiple formats is definitely more a gitit thing. 18:38 < jrayhawk> I don't know how pandoc deals with latex-to-html; I assume it drops most formatting altogether. 18:39 < kanzure> blehh 18:46 < delinquentme_> So i think im gonna end up using py4j? 18:46 < delinquentme_> better option than deploying django in jython env 18:55 -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:58 < kanzure> you could also just rewrite that java library 18:59 -!- Juul [~Juul@slim.dhcp.lbl.gov] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:04 < kanzure> http://www.virtualdrugdevelopment.com/business1.htm 19:04 < kanzure> how is this a thing? is it just made up of former biotech bigwigs and that's how they get new clients? 19:06 < yashgaroth> 1998 called, they want their website back 19:09 < eudoxia> sure beats the shit out of the website with just the phone number in it 19:10 < yashgaroth> that's just the new modern style, very po-mo 19:10 < eudoxia> ultimate minimalism 19:22 < Steel2> Thief donated to Paul. 19:22 < Steel2> Sigh. 19:22 < Steel2> *Thiel 19:22 < yashgaroth> you expected different? he unironically likes seasteading 19:23 < Steel2> again, sigh 19:24 < eudoxia> have these people ever been on an oilrig during a storm 19:24 < eudoxia> I mean, not that I have, but still 19:24 < eudoxia> expecting seasteads to look anything like the Aynrandograds they depict on the website is ridiculous 19:26 < Steel2> Man, I still stand by the ayn rand had some decent kernels of ideas in her ethics, but only if you take into account nth order self-benefit 19:27 < yashgaroth> it's just an excuse for rich people to feel good about being assholes; also, people who think they'll be rich one day and want to start early 19:28 < Steel2> I'm going to be rich, and I"m already an asshole :V 19:34 * ParahSailin__ is an egoist influenced by AR 19:37 < yashgaroth> awkwaaaard 19:38 < ParahSailin__> eh 19:39 < ParahSailin__> i grew out of the zealous phase a while ago 19:43 < ParahSailin__> i dont really get thiel/seasteading -- he otherwise seems pretty macroeconomically intelligent 19:44 < jrayhawk> Maybe he wants a hobby. 19:44 < ParahSailin__> probably that 19:44 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44 < ParahSailin__> well he threw maybe a million at the seasteading institute and it gets really cheap publicity in all the rags 19:44 < yashgaroth> sleeping on a bed made of $100 bills isn't a hobby? 19:46 < ParahSailin__> but now patri left for a honduras scheme 19:53 < kanzure> patri explained to me once that he didn't want seasteading inst to really do anything 19:53 < kanzure> he just wanted to publish books and do media through it 19:53 < kanzure> i was super disappointed when he told me that 19:53 < eudoxia> I have an idea 19:53 < kanzure> i think seasteading is a great thing to try but i'm disappointed that they didn't take the money seriously 19:54 < eudoxia> let's take all the money from the Seasteading Inst., and give it to Dennis Chamberland 19:54 < kanzure> seasteading institute probably has no more money, i bet they pay themselves 19:54 < eudoxia> but then who pays for the 3D renders of Aynrandograd? 19:54 < kanzure> no they have their publicity officers or whatever that they pay 19:54 < kanzure> the 3d renderings were freebies because it was a competition 19:55 < kanzure> iirc people submitted the renderings 19:56 < eudoxia> well that sort of explains the size 19:56 < eudoxia> I mean those platforms were like ~25 meters wide 20:00 -!- Steel2 [81a14814@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.161.72.20] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:04 < ParahSailin__> if you're trying to decouple and isolate yourself from the "unfree" economy, why pick a place to go where you wouldnt be anywhere close to self-sufficient? 20:05 < ParahSailin__> im having a hard time seeing steel mills floating at sea 20:05 < kanzure> steel mills already float at sea 20:06 < kanzure> on military boats and submarines and platforms. 20:06 < yashgaroth> what's the appeal over buying a bunch of land and sovereignty from some third-world country 20:06 < kanzure> that's a non-issue. 20:06 < kanzure> yashgaroth: show me someone who has done that 20:06 < yashgaroth> gimme a billion dollars and a plane to senegal and I will 20:06 < roksprok> what about oil companies? 20:06 < ParahSailin__> not a machine shop, an actual mill with blast furnaces and stuff 20:07 < roksprok> they have their own security forces 20:07 < ParahSailin__> well honduras has in their recent constitution a provision for selling autonomous charter cities 20:08 < ParahSailin__> which is why patri is pursuing that option 20:08 -!- roksprok [~Zac@74.83.205.124] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 20:09 -!- roksprok [~Zac@74.83.205.124] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:18 < kanzure> ParahSailin__: wait i thought patri was pursuing a carnival thing 20:19 -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:22 -!- srangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:23 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:23 -!- srangewarp is now known as strangewarp 20:36 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.160.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:39 * n_bentha / wrist 20:40 < kanzure> let's not 20:41 < n_bentha> y not? 20:41 < n_bentha> i answered on my exam that there are 50-60k gene types in the human genome because there are that many in the proteome due to alternative splicing 20:42 < n_bentha> when it's like 16k gene types :( 20:42 < kanzure> they might mark that wrong :/ 20:42 < kanzure> yeah it's around 20k ish 20:42 < n_bentha> no it's 16k gene TYPES. 20-25k genes. and 50-60k unique proteins 20:46 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:53 < kanzure> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/15/librarynu-book-downloading-injunction_n_1280383.html 20:53 < kanzure> hint: don't use your real name 20:56 -!- Juul [~Juul@slim.dhcp.lbl.gov] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:05 < kanzure> hmm what is avaxhome 21:06 < kanzure> looks like more books 21:06 < kanzure> Juul: are you ok if i call the group something something enzymatic dna synthesis 21:08 < Juul> kanzure, yeah definitely 21:08 < Mokbortolan_> hahaha 21:08 < Mokbortolan_> it's too late, publishers! 21:08 < Mokbortolan_> this copyright stuff is only going to get worse 21:09 < Mokbortolan_> and it'll be two things, either a police-state style of enforcement, or complete rewrite of the copyright laws 21:09 < Mokbortolan_> which do you think is more likely 21:09 < kanzure> not if i launch my server fortress of terror into space first! 21:10 < kanzure> actually, i bet you could raise $40M for a copyright-bypassing satellite launch 21:10 < Mokbortolan_> these organizations are already actively using law enforcement agencies, and courts, all over the world 21:10 < n_bentha> what a bunch of loons 21:10 < Mokbortolan_> hiring other smaller companies to analyze filesharing traffic and identify targets 21:11 < Mokbortolan_> it'll be like Dethklok's antipiracy methods 21:12 < kanzure> libraries are pretty crazy 21:12 < Mokbortolan_> next it'll move to tor 21:12 < Mokbortolan_> and then they won't have any way to control it 21:14 < n_bentha> sounds like a pyramid scheme 21:14 < kanzure> it's a bit worse than a pyramid scheme 21:14 < n_bentha> ok we hire u guys to hire other guys to find out who's downloading the files that we sell 21:14 < n_bentha> and u make them feel bad and want to buy more of our files 21:15 < n_bentha> ya not really a pyramid but fuck it 21:15 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-191-158.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:18 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:19 < kanzure> Juul: http://groups.google.com/group/enzymaticsynthesis 21:19 < kanzure> yashgaroth: ^ 21:20 < kanzure> fenn: ^ 21:20 < kanzure> ParahSailin__: ^ 21:20 < n_bentha> 0_o what's the group for? 21:20 < kanzure> thanks juul/yash 21:20 < Juul> joined 21:20 < kanzure> Juul: who else do you know who has explicitly expressed thoughts on this topic? 21:21 < Juul> none I could name 21:22 < Juul> i really need to start keeping a log of people 21:22 < Juul> can anyone recommend a nice cover for the kindle? 21:22 < Juul> seems like you only really need to cover the screen, and most cover the entire thing 21:23 < n_bentha> my gf has a nice leather one that she uses 21:24 < n_bentha> dunno the brand though 21:26 < kanzure> ParahSailin__: ack how'd your name get messed up on that googlegroups page? 21:26 < ParahSailin__> my ancestors put an apostrophe in the family name 21:27 < kanzure> yeah but why is googlegroups failing to display it 21:28 < kanzure> ' 21:28 < Juul> time-travelling sql injectors again? *sigh* 21:30 < kanzure> time travel itself is an sql injector 21:30 < kanzure> *injection 21:30 < kanzure> fuck. 21:31 < kanzure> some day i will build a time machine and fix all typos ever 21:31 < Juul> and everyone will wonder why spell-checking software exists 21:32 < kanzure> spell checking is just a dirty hack :P 21:33 < Juul> heh 21:33 < Juul> library genesis is back up 21:33 < Juul> and it's pretty great 21:35 -!- klafka [~textual@c-71-204-150-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:37 < kanzure> klafka: yo 21:37 < klafka> hey 21:37 < kanzure> klafka: have you and i geeked out about dna polymerase hacking before 21:37 < Juul> who here is nathan? 21:37 < klafka> some 21:37 < kanzure> klafka: 21:37 < klafka> but i'm going to sleep 21:37 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/enzymaticsynthesis 21:38 < kanzure> i'm herding people. 21:38 < yashgaroth> juul: nmz787 21:38 < kanzure> Juul: he's nmz787 when he's online (nathan mccorkle) 21:38 < Juul> ah 21:38 < klafka> my gf visited the over the weekend and now i'm super bummed that she's left 21:38 < kanzure> her loss dude 21:38 < klafka> no i mean 21:38 < klafka> i don't ahve an apt 21:38 < klafka> she can't move out here 21:44 -!- jmil [~jmil@2607:f470:8:3148:5536:d102:2620:c185] has quit [Quit: jmil] 21:53 < kanzure> "but if we can figure out how to 21:53 < kanzure> effectively tell the polymerase "attach exactly one nucleotide now" 21:53 < kanzure> then the required non-biological equipment would basically be some 21:53 < kanzure> diodes with a USB interface." 21:53 < kanzure> "diodes with a USB interface" is going to be my new catchphrase 21:53 < kanzure> even though you're sorta right :) 21:55 -!- delinquentme_ [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:55 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.160.104] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 21:55 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.160.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:07 -!- Juul [~Juul@slim.dhcp.lbl.gov] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:12 < audy> kanzure: BGI github page? 22:14 < kanzure> audy: um um... uhh 22:14 < audy> kanzure: it's okay I can find it 22:14 < kanzure> audy: https://github.com/ehec-outbreak-crowdsourced/BGI-data-analysis 22:14 < kanzure> what an awful name 22:14 < kanzure> why not just bgi >:| 22:14 < audy> kanzure: oh I thought BGI had an OSS initiative 22:15 < kanzure> hahah oh heavens no 22:15 < audy> hehehe 22:15 < audy> kanzure: ohnosequences.com you know them? 22:16 < audy> I love the name. I'm one of my department's only bioinfortatics persons. Also, we recently got an Ion Torrent. Whenever someone sequences something they come to me next 22:17 < kanzure> hrm 22:17 < kanzure> nope i don't know them 22:18 < audy> kanzure: they made the repo 22:19 < audy> oh era7 did. So BGI outsourced to Spain 22:19 < kanzure> i might have the wrong url 22:19 < kanzure> this was from a slide from a bgi presentation at open science summit 2011 22:19 < kanzure> there was another github account but it seems to be taken down 22:19 < kanzure> also i can't remember its name >_< 22:26 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:28 -!- yottabit [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:28 < audy> kanzure: diy bio channel is called...? 22:28 < kanzure> audy: you're in it 22:28 < kanzure> this is it. 22:29 < audy> I thought this was posthumanism? 22:29 < kanzure> what the hell is that 22:29 < n_bentha> transhumanism? 22:29 < audy> uploading your brains 22:29 < audy> DOH 22:29 < kanzure> nobody in here has uploaded any brains 22:29 < kanzure> however it sounds like a cool project 22:30 < audy> hehe 22:38 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:41 -!- marainein [~marainein@114-198-79-179.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:41 -!- co_ajak_cewe_ngi [~Guest3380@123.238.66.230] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:41 -!- co_ajak_cewe_ngi [~Guest3380@123.238.66.230] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 22:48 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.160.104] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 22:56 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil] 22:57 -!- yottabit [~heath@c-50-130-1-202.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:57 -!- yottabit [~heath@c-50-130-1-202.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:57 -!- yottabit [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:57 -!- yottabit [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Client Quit] 23:15 -!- uniqanomaly__ [~ua@dynamic-78-8-80-104.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:16 -!- uniqanomaly_ [~ua@dynamic-78-8-80-128.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:21 -!- SDr [~SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has quit [] 23:28 < kanzure> http://pr.odi.gy/ 'prodigy manifesto' 23:34 < utopiah> I guess "he" made the CPU of the server that hosts this page himself too 23:35 < kanzure> why not? http://code.google.com/p/homecmos/ 23:37 < utopiah> I would be deeply impressed 23:39 < foucist> kanzure: that's not the only way 23:39 < foucist> there's homemade ocmputers out there, using wires and such 23:39 < kanzure> true. ttl logic stuff. 23:47 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@cpc21-broo7-2-0-cust83.14-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Tue Feb 21 00:00:19 2012