--- Log opened Fri Mar 30 00:00:13 2012
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06:02 < audy> lichen what am I watching
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06:03 < audy> heh from muslims to microchips
06:04 < ThomasEgi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nm0POwEtiqE mother of god... 32bit arm emulation on a 8bit avr, running linux.
06:05 < ThomasEgi> and most scary thing of all. it ever works (ok 2 hours for booting up isnt exarctly fast but, still wow)
06:08 < archels> ThomasEgi: Did you see Linus Torvalds' response to that?
06:11 < ThomasEgi> no?
06:11 < ThomasEgi> where's it?
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07:14 < kanzure> http://dev.opencascade.org/index.php
07:14 < kanzure> "availability of official OCCT Git repository. This opens the possibility for external contributors to directly participate in all steps of OCCT code development "
07:14 < kanzure> http://dev.opencascade.org/index.php?q=node/57
07:15 < kanzure> http://dev.opencascade.org/sites/default/files/documents/OCCT_GitGuide_V2.pdf
07:15 < kanzure> http://git.dev.opencascade.org/gitweb/?p=occt.git
07:16 < kanzure> um.. it seems to only go back to 2012-03-05
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08:17 < kanzure> blerghidjada http://singularityhub.com/2012/03/27/singularity-university-to-incubate-synthetic-biology-startups-with-new-program/
08:18 < kanzure> http://consequenceofsound.net/2012/03/album-review-lower-dens-nootropics/
08:20 < kanzure> gah
08:20 < kanzure> bad link.
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08:28 < kanzure> "We found the brain is built from parallel and perpendicular fibers that
08:28 < kanzure> cross each other in an orderly fashion. Finding this kind of simple
08:28 < kanzure> organization in the forebrain of higher animals was completely unsuspected,"
08:29 < kanzure> In the current study, Wedeen and his colleagues used diffusion spectrum MR
08:29 < kanzure> imaging  coupled with mathematical analysis of all crossing or adjacent pathways in the brains of
08:29 < kanzure> four species of non-human primates and in human volunteers.
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09:08 < kanzure> "n 1942, a local boy found a bear cub near Hamadan, Iran. He sold it to the soldiers of the Polish Army stationed nearby for a couple of canned meat tins. As the bear was less than a year old, he initially had problems swallowing and was fed with condensed milk from an emptied vodka bottle."
09:08 < kanzure> " The bear was fed with fruits, marmalade, honey and syrup, and was often rewarded with beer, which became his favorite drink. He also enjoyed smoking and eating cigarettes"
09:08 < kanzure> "He enjoyed wrestling and was taught to salute when greeted."
09:09 < kanzure> he is the most interesting bear in the world
09:22 < cluckj> he doesn't always eat cigarettes, but when he does, he prefers menthols?
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09:41 < chris_99> where's that from kanzure
09:42 < kanzure> wikipedia.
09:42 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojtek_(soldier_bear)
09:43 < chris_99> cheers
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09:48 < kanzure> hi archels
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09:56 < kanzure> hi nmz787
09:57 < kanzure> what is nathan-think o.o
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09:57 < nmz787> yo
09:57 < nmz787> that's my laptop hostname
09:58 < kanzure> delinquentme: sup
09:59 < delinquentme> shitty generator HTML
10:01 < kanzure> nmz787: did you see this the other day? http://singularityhub.com/2012/03/27/singularity-university-to-incubate-synthetic-biology-startups-with-new-program/
10:03 < nmz787> no
10:03 < nmz787> its alright
10:03 < kanzure> a little weird that they are comparing themselves to ycombinator so soon..
10:03 < nmz787> the whole SU crowd still seems like its geared towards upper middle class and lower high class folks
10:04 < nmz787> at least with ycombinator its all software
10:04 < nmz787> which doesnt req any $
10:04 < nmz787> and they don't have crazy "grad" programs
10:06 < delinquentme> so yeah kanz we need a smarter way to do this
10:06 < kanzure> what's the problem?
10:07 < delinquentme> so publishers will use whatever HTML hacks they can to get presentations to look good
10:07 < kanzure> yep.. and often it is bad html
10:07 < delinquentme> acceptable , whatever
10:07 < delinquentme> yeah exactly
10:07 < kanzure> pretty terrible isn't it?
10:07 < delinquentme> and coming up with extensible ways to make sense of that
10:07 < delinquentme> yeah its not quite code
10:09 < delinquentme> the big indexing companies probably have a decent system
10:09 < kanzure> .. that you will never, ever see.
10:11 < nmz787> i hate lab reports
10:11 < nmz787> i was thinking last night, i might not be much of a 'scientist'
10:11 < nmz787> well i guess i follow the scientific method
10:12 < kanzure> lab reports => take some pictures, paste some graphs together, throw it into the same folder?
10:12 < nmz787> unfortunately, no... typed up shit with loads of calculations for boring experiments
10:12 < kanzure> i think most people just have their undergrads do the boring experiments
10:12 < nmz787> i just wish training wasn't so damn boring
10:13 < delinquentme> kanzure, its represented right there on their website
10:13 < nmz787> if i was doing DNA synthesis calculations, itd probably be pretty cool
10:13 < kanzure> what was this report for/about/what?
10:13 < nmz787> extracting mandelic acid from water using octanol
10:14 < nmz787> and reporting the distribution coefficient
10:14 < nmz787> which is how efficient the solvent is at pulling the solute out of the other solvent
10:15 < nmz787> and showing that le chateliers principle holds true
10:15 < nmz787> i.e. multiple small extractions are better than one big extraction
10:15 < nmz787> and then i'm in some 1st year chem class
10:16 < nmz787> last week we used pH indicators in a bunch of solutions, and eyed the color
10:16 < kanzure> i'm pretty sure i did that in high school o_o
10:16 < nmz787> then tried placing an unknown in correct order between pH standards
10:16 < nmz787> earlier we calibrated a pH meter
10:16 < nmz787> then tested an unknown with it
10:17 < nmz787> then made up a buffer solution of a specific target pH
10:17 < nmz787> whats worse is coming in the next few weeks
10:17 < nmz787> ...
10:17 < nmz787> using 20 year old (at least) spectrometers
10:17 < kanzure> did you ask if you could use your own spectrometer
10:17 < nmz787> where you have to change the wavelength and re-blank each time
10:17 < nmz787> my spectrometer is still in pieces
10:17 < nmz787> :/
10:18 < n_bentha> didn't someone make a spectrometer mod for an iphone?
10:18 < nmz787> :/
10:18 < nmz787> prob in university
10:18 < nmz787> but yeah if i recall it was low res, and didnt do UV
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10:23 < nmz787> hah
10:23 < nmz787> pretty sure i got this book a few months back at goodwill for like $4
10:23 < nmz787> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fourier-Transform-Infrared-Spectrometry-Chemical-Analysis-A-Series-of-Monogra-/370591067191?pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item5648f2ec37#ht_1827wt_1270
10:23 < nmz787> $157 on ebay
10:30 < chris_99> yeah they did n_bentha
10:30 < chris_99> using a diffraction grating in front of the camera
10:31 < nmz787> this is what i'm expected to use the next few weeks
10:31 < nmz787> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spectronic-Instruments-Spectronic-20-Model-333182-Spectrophotometer-/251029092883?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a727ffa13#ht_500wt_1287
10:31 < chris_99> i need to make/find one that will do IR
10:34 < delinquentme> lulzzz
10:34 < delinquentme> fuck this.
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10:45 < nmz787> i love the internet
10:48 < ThomasEgi> in soviet russia.. internet loves you
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11:05 < sylph_mako> I always listen to Davis's rendition of 'Round Midnight on repeat when I'm feeling noir.
11:40 < kanzure> jebba: yo :)
11:41 < kanzure> nmz787: what about the tape/casting method shown here? http://hackteria.org/wiki/index.php/DIY_Microfluidics
11:42 < kanzure> oh they have a mini laser cutter setup. hrm. http://www.youtube.com/embed/QOEMFQPaNEY
11:43 < kanzure> http://hackteria.org/wiki/index.php/DIY_Micro_Laser_Cutter
11:43 < kanzure> "tep by step instructionon how to build a small DIY laser cutter from two CD or DVD drives and a laser diode extracted from a blue-ray player or as in this case a 445nm diode form a DLP projector. Such a laser can be found on ebay (1.5-2W 445nm Blue Diode in Module W/Leads & Aixiz Glass) for about 50$ including appropriate housing (Aixiz) and lens "
11:43 < kanzure> "The cutting area is about 45 mm x 45 mm."
11:44 < kanzure> not sure what the beam size is
11:46 < jebba> we're going to use openmanufacturing.com, almost certainly, as a website to sell MiniMaxes to businesses
11:46 < jebba> minimax is http://www.alephobjects.com/photos/printers/minimax/2012Q1/1.0/    Bill of Materials:  http://www.alephobjects.com/hardware/bom/2012Q1/MiniMax_BOM_PL.ods    Prototype:  http://www.alephobjects.com/photos/printers/minimax/2012Q1/prototype-2/
11:46 < jebba> kanzure: can you read that ok?
11:47 < kanzure> jebba: yes.
11:50 < kanzure> here's a video of their operational chip
11:50 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/embed/0T-h4dtcCDI
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12:00 < kanzure> there's a swiss mechatronic art society? http://www.sgmk-ssam.ch/
12:06 < kanzure> how are they handling all the fumes from that cutter?
12:12 < delinquentme> its switzerland
12:12 < delinquentme> thats what they breathe
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12:23 < nmz787> that laser cutter did a pretty rough job
12:23 < nmz787> works for sure tho
12:24 < nmz787> my opinion is that it needs a good amount of refining to become useful for microfluidics
12:24 < kanzure> i don't know what magnification the video is at
12:24 < kanzure> is that even micro?
12:24 < kanzure> looks like no- it's probably just some webcam pointed at it
12:24 < nmz787> from the looks of the cutouts, they aren't using good motor control
12:24 < nmz787> the edge is pretty jagged
12:26 < kanzure> gah where did this come from
12:26 < kanzure> http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Using-laser-micromachining-Microfluidics-713657.S.88406731
12:31 < nmz787> interesting
12:31 < nmz787>  Bubble trapping is usually a result of filling too fast, and can be minimized by filling the dry channel with CO2 gas, which will dissolve in water after the channel is full..... 
12:31 < nmz787> i like that trick
12:32 < nmz787> most of the complaints are solvable with a custom cutter
12:32 < nmz787> which doesn't yet exist for a microfluidics market
12:32 < nmz787> that's actually an idea I've had for a whil
12:32 < kanzure> pretty weird. i don't understand why they don't build one in-house?
12:32 < nmz787> ppl are not good are interdisciplinary stuff
12:32 < nmz787> as far as i can tell
12:33 < kanzure> i mean, if the laser cutter they currently has, physically *does not work* then shouldn't they be motivated to uh fix it
12:33 < kanzure> ok a reasonable explanation
12:33 < kanzure> *have
12:33 < nmz787> biologist "hey i want to do X", engineer "we can use microfluidics", laser tech "our shit doesn't do what you want", biologist "well we better get a million from NIH to do it all with lithography, cause that's whats advertised"
12:34 < nmz787> instead of paying me $10k to develop something that's right for the situation
12:34 < nmz787> which would not only work for their purposes, but could also be a business spin-off
12:35 < kanzure> where do these rough edges come from?
12:35 < nmz787> if the laser is pulsed... could be the duty cycle of that
12:35 < kanzure> beam staying too long in one place, heating the edge of the cut?
12:35 < kanzure> hm.
12:35 < nmz787> there is some of that too
12:35 < nmz787> but also bad motor control
12:35 < kanzure> right
12:35 < nmz787> people using stepper motors without microstepping the hell out of it
12:36 < nmz787> (i've seen 256 microstepping controllers, but not more)
12:36 < nmz787> i guess ideally you'd want analog control/motors
12:37 < kanzure> how would multiple layers work with lasered pdms?
12:37 < nmz787> but then another problem is these laser cutters are meant for hobbyists and macro-professionals
12:37 < nmz787> so they are belt driven
12:37 < nmz787> so speed/resolution is based on the gear ratios
12:37 < nmz787> i would use a 1/4 40 screw
12:38 < kanzure> oh for layers i guess you just bond multiple chips together
12:38 < nmz787> with that per turn you get 15 microns per travel
12:38 < nmz787> common steppers are something like 180 steps per turn
12:38 < nmz787> so add microstepping for smaller features/smoothing
12:38 < nmz787> and its a system thats tuned for micro work
12:39 < nmz787> also excimer lasers are probably the best to use, but also most expensive
12:39 < nmz787> they're UV so they really pack a punch and vaporize/combust/plasmasize the substrate
12:40 < nmz787> hopefully so much that its all gas, so no redeposition
12:40 < nmz787> alternatively I've thought of running the whole rig under a vacuum
12:40 < nmz787> vs most people apply compressed air/argon/nitrogen at the cutting area
12:40 < kanzure> i forget, did you hate screw valves?
12:40 < nmz787> to hope to blow particles away
12:40 < nmz787> umm
12:41 < nmz787> depends on what they're for
12:41 < nmz787> they work good for the water faucet
12:41 < AdrianG> what are good activating pharmaceuticals
12:41 < AdrianG> besides stimulants, wellbutrin, and modafinil
12:41 < kanzure> *racetams?
12:42 < nmz787> i dont think wellbutrin is activating
12:42 < nmz787> more of a downer/stabilizer IMO
12:42 < nmz787> makes you "butt" "well"
12:43 < nmz787> caffeine, theobromine, cocaine, amphetamines, ephedra
12:43 < nmz787> i guess those are all stimulants
12:43 < nmz787> :P
12:44 < kanzure> nmz787: pdms pressure valves on a second chip that we bond to the first, don't seem like they would line up precisely
12:44 < kanzure> maybe we could do some measuring magic where we do some markings and if they optically align in some magic way we're sure we have precise alignment of 2 chips
12:45 < nmz787> yeah we'd have to develop a process to register things well
12:45 < nmz787> but its not impossible
12:46 < nmz787> actually i g2g
12:46 < kanzure> seeya
12:46 < nmz787> have some stuff i need to rasterize and try cutting with the laser cutter
12:46 < nmz787> also gonna try a simple registration idea i had
12:47 < nmz787> so I can rasterize the front and back of the cut item
12:47 < nmz787> (earlier i meant i had to vectorize stuff)
12:47 < nmz787> lata
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13:20 < thylane> http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/03/vernor-vinge-geeks-guide-galaxy/all/1
13:23 < thylane> oh shi--
13:23 < thylane> watch this, hplus
13:23 < thylane> [16:20] <parso> I'm  very surprised that the Technological Singularity never gets any lip service in this channel
13:23 < thylane> [16:21] <Nietzsche__-> what do you mean by 'Technological Singularity'
13:23 < thylane> *facepalm*
13:24 < kanzure> what channel?
13:26 < thylane> it's on a different network entirely
13:29 < kanzure> supplemental material for that 'grid' article about human brain organization:
13:29 < kanzure> http://www.sciencemag.org/content/suppl/2012/03/28/335.6076.1628.DC1/Wedeen-SOM.pdf
13:29 < AdrianG> thx
13:29 < AdrianG> so our brainz r gridz.
13:30 < AdrianG> racetams arent very activating tbh
13:30 < AdrianG> in my experience
13:37  * _0bitcount is reading "Abundance" by Peter Diamandis and enjoying it. Anyone here read it?
13:38 < kanzure> not yet, but i assume it's a rehash of paul's content: http://pdfernhout.net/
13:39 < _0bitcount> So there are more people seeing these technological trends? cool!
13:40 < kanzure> peter is definitely not the originator of such ideas :p
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13:42 < Steel2> 0bit: I did some consulting work on it
13:42 < _0bitcount> kanzure, OK. Anyway his Singularity University looks like is going to do a lot of good.
13:43 < Steel2> people here have Feelings on singu :P
13:43 < Steel2> kanz, did you ever get access to the lab there like you wanted?
13:43 < kanzure> _0bitcount: SU charges $25,000 for a 6 week class where my friends stand up and lecture on vague terms about things
13:43 < kanzure> Steel2: no
13:43 < kanzure> Steel2: SU doesn't have a lab anyway
13:44 < Steel2> ah, I thought you were trying to do something like that...
13:44 < kanzure> yes, well, lots of people do false advertising
13:44 < Steel2> one of the san fran facilities you were trying to get access to their lab space and considering moving there
13:44 < kanzure> SU is no different
13:44 < Steel2> you read the SENS annual report?
13:44 < kanzure> partially
13:45 < _0bitcount> Steel2, kanzure, sorry to hear that. I suppose that different approaches are possible, similar to the different views inside the Free Software/Open Source communities.
13:45 < kanzure> not sure what they are blowing $1500000/year on
13:45 < kanzure> _0bitcount: SU hasn't really supported open/free software much
13:45 < kanzure> or open/free hardware
13:45 < Steel2> hah, even in this room there are a lot of disagreements between methods
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13:45 < kanzure> they were also very disinterested in a recent open hardware project pitch i gave them (very angry that i wasn't talking about IP or patenting things, etc.)
13:46 < kanzure> _0bitcount: i take it you'r not an actual open source programmer..?
13:46 < _0bitcount> Steel2, competition is supposed to be a good thing. Isn't it? ;-)
13:47 < Steel2> you need to be achieving things for competition to be worthwhile :P
13:48 < _0bitcount> kanzure, I am definitely towards Free Software views about technology.
13:48 < Steel2> _0bitcount, what do you do occupationally/skill wise?
13:49 < _0bitcount> Steel2, electronic technician, electrician, Free Software advocate and advance user, tinkerer :-)
13:49 < kanzure> analog?
13:49 < Steel2> awesome
13:50 < _0bitcount> kanzure, used to be. Now shifting to digital and software.
13:51 < _0bitcount> I am sorry if my mention of SU annoys somebody here. They were my first contact with all these Singularity, exponential tech. Anyway, some of their videos are inspiring for a newbie like me.
13:52 < kanzure> nobody said it was annoying
13:52 < kanzure> it's inspiring, but it probably doesn't teach you much
13:52 < kanzure> here are some other videos:
13:52 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us:9001/
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13:55 < _0bitcount> kanzure, cool. Thank you.
13:56 < _0bitcount> I hope they all run under gnash.
13:59 < kanzure> probably not
13:59 < kanzure> asshats keep uploading videos to youtube and other services
13:59 < kanzure> instead of uploading the original files
14:00 < Steel2> if only they'd do both
14:00 < _0bitcount> Then I'll use Flash. Not that I like it, but if the video has some teaching possibilities...
14:05 < archels> kanzure: I just read the brain connectivity article, it seems pretty solid
14:05 < Steel2> the grid one?
14:05 < kanzure> archels: i've only looked at the supplementary material, haven't looked at the paper yet >_<
14:05 < archels> yes
14:06 < archels> lots of pretty pictures in either :D
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15:14 < Mokbortolan_> http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/wiredscience/2012/03/rainbow-brain-map-science-aaas.jpg
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15:26 < AdrianG> lew;
15:26 < AdrianG> kewl
15:31 < thylane> http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/wiredscience/2012/03/rainbow-brain-map-science-aaas.jpg
15:31 < thylane> the blue and purple-white  connections are pretty obvious
15:32 < thylane> that's how the forebrain  (prefrontal cortex)   sends command signals to the corpus collosum
15:32 < kanzure> "command signals"?
15:35 < thylane> the PFC is the executive center of the brain
15:36 < kanzure> "executive"?
15:36 < thylane> that is the part that tells you how to do things.  Walk.   Use a fork.  Ride a bike.  Type on IRC
15:36 < kanzure> i think you are making shit up
15:36 < kanzure> what is a "command signal"? is it a sparse signal?
15:36 < thylane> the command signal means something relating to doing an action with the body
15:36 < kanzure> ok.. so that could be any sort of action potential
15:36 < kanzure> why not just say action potential :(
15:37 < Steel2> @Kanzure: He's not making shit up, he's just using psych terms instead of neuroscience terms
15:37 < kanzure> Steel2: that's like mixing mythologies heh
15:37 < thylane> because  many signals in the brain are not related to performing bodily action
15:37 < kanzure> ok, so the signal between neurohormone glands in the brain isn't a command?
15:37 < kanzure> bleh
15:38 < thylane> I'm making a pretty clear statement here.
15:38 < thylane> http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/wiredscience/2012/03/rainbow-brain-map-science-aaas.jpg
15:38 < kanzure> pathways?
15:38 < kanzure> i was only pointing out that your choice of words was insufficiently descriptive, that's all.
15:38 < thylane> the blue and purple-white  "highway"  of connections from the  PFC to the Corpus collosum are  specifically there for  complex bodily movement.
15:38 < kanzure> don't take it personally.
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15:43 < thylane> I know enough neuroscience to draw arrows on that diagram  showing how the signals are flowing
15:46 < kanzure> ah. have you considered learning more?
15:46 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ is a good start
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15:59 < kanzure> hi deep-fried-art
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16:06 < ThomasEgi> ... i totaly miss-read that name by skipping most of the middle part..
16:07 < nmz787> deep-fart?
16:08 < jrayhawk> haha
16:09 < kanzure> nmz787: let's put together the specs for the laser
16:09 < kanzure> or write down, in some document, the optics i'd be ordering for a refurbished laser cutter
16:09 < kanzure> a custom system is sounding like the better option
16:13 < deep-fried-art> hey kanzure
16:15 < nmz787> kanzure: wait, so add optics to existing, or DIY all the way?
16:15 < nmz787> kanzure: I think there are enough gantry plans out there that the all-ours method is the right way
16:16 < nmz787> the optics should be quite similar in either case
16:16 < kanzure> ok. that sounds fine to me.
16:16 < kanzure> i hate most software for commercial laser cutters anyway
16:16 < nmz787> so for the additional effort we know we'll get hella good physical resolution
16:16 < nmz787> do you know g-code?
16:16 < nmz787> i dont
16:16 < kanzure> sorta
16:16 < kanzure> fenn does. i can force him to write some.
16:16 < kanzure> or we can use gcode generators
16:17 < nmz787> well
16:17 < kanzure> replicatorg? there's probably something better
16:17 < nmz787> ok
16:17 < kanzure> pycam
16:17 < nmz787> stock gen maybe OK, but we may want things to route in a certain way
16:18 < kanzure> my microfluidics library should do svg and gcode output anyway.. otherwise it's useless
16:18 < kanzure> ah i see
16:18 < nmz787> :P
16:18 < nmz787> the full spectrum laser software has a really weird routing generator
16:18 < nmz787> it jumps all around and doesn't make sense to me
16:19 < nmz787> so whatever they're doing, its wrong!
16:19 < nmz787> lol
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16:20 < kanzure> "I once built a megawatt UV laser with an output beam diameter of about an inch.
16:20 < kanzure> We used a 12 inch astronomical telescope as a beam expander to limit the divergence, so we
16:20 < kanzure> could try to hit the laser reflector that Apollo 11 left on the moon. Counting the photons we
16:20 < kanzure> received about 3 seconds later, we got better than 80% confidence that they were our
16:20 < kanzure> reflected photons."
16:20 < kanzure> simon is now a bad ass
16:20 < nmz787> whaa
16:20 < nmz787> ?
16:20 < nmz787> i didnt see that
16:20 < nmz787> nice
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16:29 < kanzure> hi wudles.
16:29 < kanzure> nmz787: but still. we should draw up specs. i would like it to run linux.
16:29 < kanzure> or possibly emc
16:29 < wudles> hi there kanzure.
16:30 < Urchin> hi
16:30 < Urchin> what's supposed to run linux?
16:30 < nmz787> all sorts of programs are supposed to run linux
16:30 < nmz787> on linux*
16:31 < Urchin> I mean, in this context
16:31 < kanzure> laser cutter.
16:31 < Urchin> never dealt with them
16:31 < kanzure> you sir are missing out on life
16:31 < kanzure> you have not experienced true joyful science without laser blasting the shit out of something
16:31 < nmz787> i'm gonna cut some monkeys later with a laser cutter
16:32 < nmz787> SVG monkeys
16:32 < kanzure> nmz787: have you used emc ever?
16:32 < nmz787> nah
16:32 < kanzure> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/about
16:32 < nmz787> see it
16:32 < nmz787> heard of it
16:32 < nmz787> looked at the site b4
16:33 < kanzure> "It can simultaneously move up to 9 axes and supports a variety of interfaces" hahah
16:33 < kanzure> 9 axes.
16:34 < kanzure> screw all this propeller crap :P
16:34 < kanzure> kidding. microcontrollers have a time and a place.
16:35 < nmz787> geez
16:36 < nmz787> where u seeing propeller stuff?
16:36 < kanzure> i was joking, but that diy laser cutter from hackteria was using, uh, arduino or something
16:37 < nmz787> yyyyeeeeaaaahhhhh
16:37 < nmz787> .... surrreeeee
16:37 < nmz787> arduino has its place
16:37 < kanzure> wasn't it?
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16:38 < kanzure> i'm sure arduino can work ok in that scenario
16:38 < nmz787> but for scientific equipment, you gotta get into some real C or asm
16:38 < kanzure> but i don't know why everyone is opposed to just having linux plugged into your steppers
16:38 < nmz787> well its bigger
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16:38 < nmz787> its not realtime
16:38 < kanzure> it is realtime
16:38 < nmz787> rt linux is
16:39 < nmz787> but thats not debian
16:39 < kanzure> jrayhawk: ping?
16:39 < nmz787> debian isn't realtime, you can't make determinative hardware operations with debian, etc
16:39 < nmz787> i.e pulse pin 0 on parallel port every microsecond, on the microsecond... with only thermal effects causing variation
16:41 < kanzure> well. submicrosecond management sounds a little exotic for linux.
16:42 < jrayhawk> Linux has had hard realtime for years.
16:42 < nmz787> but its a diff kernel, right?
16:42 < nmz787> i.e. not torvalds
16:42 < nmz787> ?
16:42 < jrayhawk> Only if you want exotic realtime.
16:42 < kanzure> http://pengutronix.de/software/linux-rt/debian_en.html
16:42 < kanzure> what counts as exotic
16:43 < nmz787> yeah whats the diff?
16:43 < jrayhawk> There are various tradeoffs between efficient scheduling an realtime behavior; this is outside of my wheelhouse but let me see if I can dig up some docs...
16:43 < nmz787> hmm
16:43 < kanzure> "The worst case time between the moment a hardware interrupt is detected by the processor and the moment an interrupt handler starts to execute is under 15 microseconds on RTLinux running on a generic x86."
16:44 < nmz787> basically the way i see it is, in a lot of cases you don't need a scheduler
16:44 < kanzure> "A RTLinux periodic task runs within 25 microseconds of its scheduled time on the same hardware."
16:44 < nmz787> or if you did, sometimes you can break that functionality into a few pieces of simpler hardware
16:44 < kanzure> .. within 25 microseconds?
16:44 < kanzure> that's 25x worse than your requirement.
16:44 < nmz787> yeah
16:44 < kanzure> oh, microsecond or millisecond?
16:45 < nmz787> this CCD i'm using has a 4mhz clock
16:45 < nmz787> thats a IO switching every 1/8 microsecond
16:45 < jrayhawk> 4 millihertz?
16:45 < nmz787> and thats only one of 2 or 3 lines
16:45 < nmz787> no
16:45 < jrayhawk> errr shit
16:45 < jrayhawk> durr
16:45 < nmz787> mega
16:45 < nmz787> lol
16:46 < kanzure> Mhz
16:46 < nmz787> sry
16:46 < kanzure> IN THIS CHANNEL WE USE PROPER NOTATION FOR OUR DIMENSIONS
16:46 < kanzure> haha
16:46 < nmz787> prostrates in tears
16:46 < nmz787> *
16:47 < kanzure> hrmm
16:47 < nmz787> but the nice thing about simpler hardware is, yeah, its simpler
16:47 < kanzure> well, i haven't specifically seen submicrosecond linux
16:47 < jrayhawk> But yeah, even on really nice hardware, Linux can only context switch 100k-1m times per second
16:47 < nmz787> i really like the propeller... fast, 8 cores, as easy to get into as arduino
16:48 < kanzure> actually when i was going to use a stepper with linux i had an fpga pci card
16:48 < kanzure> fpgas can definitely do submicrosecond switching
16:48 < nmz787> really only downside i see, for most microcontrollable apps, is that it doesn't do floating point math or hardware multp/div
16:48 < nmz787> oh god yes
16:48 < kanzure> but fpgas have their own set of problems (proprietary design software..)
16:48 < nmz787> oh i mean God
16:48 < nmz787> sry again
16:48 < jrayhawk> haha
16:48 < nmz787> God is a dimension, right?
16:48 < kanzure> maybe?
16:49 < jrayhawk> Truth and/or love have dimensionality, so we can theoretically construct a proof
16:50 < nmz787> fpgas are alluring to me, but they're so complex to get up and running... it'd be like a year of hardcore studying and at least a few hundred $ in dev kits or something... finding the right proprietary software thats easy to help you get started
16:50 < nmz787> (for me)
16:50 < kanzure> specifically i think there's no open source fpga programming tools?
16:50 < kanzure> someone in here was complaining about this
16:50 < kanzure> i don't remember the details.
16:51 < jrayhawk> jblake cares deeply about that, you can bug him about the current situation
16:51 < kanzure> anyway! yes i am willing to admit microcontrollers are fine for submicrosecond work
16:51 < nmz787> 10 years i bet we can use neural cells on an electrode array for stuff fpgas are doing today
16:51 < nmz787> maybe
16:51 < jrayhawk> 10 years i bet we can just order custom ASICs
16:51 < kanzure> i think we can already do that just not cheaply?
16:52 < kanzure> ASIC failwhale.jpg generator
16:52 < jrayhawk> Yeah.
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16:58 < nmz787> john griessen responds to me really strange sometimes
16:58 < jrayhawk> linux-rt has RMA and EDF implemented, at least...
16:58 < kanzure> i've met john btw. he lives nearby.
16:58 < kanzure> he makes really great crawfish
16:59 < nmz787> nice
16:59 < nmz787> he jsut replied to me offlist though
17:00 < nmz787> with really weird responses
17:00 < nmz787> almost belittling me
17:00 < nmz787> saying i twisted/ignored most of what he said
17:00 < nmz787> "Off to other things.  lost cause."
17:02 < jrayhawk> some days i am bad at managing my neurochemistry and become very uncharitable
17:03 < jrayhawk> you might want to wait at least a day before responding
17:03 < uniqanomaly_> some billionaire should create 100s of hacker spaces around the world :<
17:04 < uniqanomaly_> he would be arts patron for science :D
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17:13 < jrayhawk> http://www.cs.ru.nl/lab/rtai/experiments/11.EDF&RMA/Experiment-11_oldversion.html has a short description of some of fancier schedulers in RTAI
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17:13 < jrayhawk> oh you're back http://www.cs.ru.nl/lab/rtai/experiments/11.EDF&RMA/Experiment-11_oldversion.html has a short description of some of fancier schedulers in RTAI
17:14 < nmz787> yeah i wasnt plugged in, laptop got tired, er went to slee[p
17:14 < Steel2> uniqanomaly_: someone should put together a modular shopping list for starting hackerspaces
17:15 < ParahSailin> id like to get into fpgas too
17:15 < nmz787> that de0 nano seems like a nice feature set for the price
17:16 < nmz787> http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?No=593
17:17 < ParahSailin> wow that is pretty inexpensive
17:18 < nmz787> i guess they have some example code too, not sure how easy it is to get into and understand tho
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17:24 < thesnark> kanzure ping
17:25 < ParahSailin> id like to understand software radio for darknet stuff
17:26 < thesnark> ParahSailin what kind of darknet stuff do you have in mind?
17:26 < ParahSailin> i saw a thing for a 24 ghz backhaul system
17:27 < ParahSailin> i wanna know how to rip off the design and go pirate with that
17:28 < nmz787> darknet?
17:35 < kanzure> thesnark: pong
17:36 < thesnark> kanzure check privmsg
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17:36 < kanzure> whaa private messages! gah
17:36  * kanzure checks
17:37 < kanzure> ok i'd rather answer that over skype
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17:41 < kanzure> ParahSailin: request approved!
17:41 < kanzure> nmz787: john is really friendly and i don't understand why he would send that :(
17:42 < nmz787> kanzure: he's sent me a few emails like this in the past
17:42 < kanzure> weird
17:42 < nmz787> yes
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18:10 < Vicarious> hi
18:10 < kanzure> hello.
18:19 < kanzure> jrayhawk: why don't i have sudo on fairlystable :(
18:20 < kanzure> oh nevermind
18:21 < jrayhawk> i am sure whatever i set your password to demonstrated consummate professionalism
18:23 < kanzure> no i just apparently suck at typing long passwords
18:23 < katsmeow-afk> "professionaly speaking, you suck. That's your password."
18:24 < jrayhawk> "butts" and "poop" are more typical
18:25 < yashgaroth> wtf how do you know my password
18:26 < yashgaroth> butts1 it is then
18:26 < jrayhawk> haha
18:26 < kanzure> mad hackers in here
18:30 < Steel2> welp, spending all business hours on campus from now on or I get in trouble
18:33 < kanzure> jrayhawk: what should i distupgrade that vserver to
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18:46 < kanzure> nmz787: speeeeeccscsss are needed for the laz0r
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18:46 < kanzure> hi eudoxia
18:46 < eudoxia> yo
18:47 < kanzure> how goes it?
18:47 < eudoxia> pretty good
18:47 < nmz787> specs?
18:47 < nmz787> hmm
18:47 < eudoxia> so what's been going on here lately?
18:48 < kanzure> nmz787: for the diy laser cutter
18:48 < nmz787> kanzure: umm
18:48 < nmz787> kanzure: will take me a few days
18:48 < kanzure> eudoxia: how many days have you been gone? let me think.
18:50 < Steel2> got some new peeps around
18:50 < kanzure> nmz787: okay. but we definitely agree on 1-5 micron target beam size?
18:50 < nmz787> :D
18:51 < nmz787> sure
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18:52 < kanzure> hi delinquentme
18:52 < kanzure> delinquentme: i'll have some code to show you tomorrow
18:52 < kanzure> in about 24 hours.
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18:53 < kanzure> can you prepare me a gpg public key so i can add you to a server?
18:53 -!- chimaera [~eudoxia@r186-52-181-161.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Client Quit]
18:58 < delinquentme> why gpg and not just regular public keys?
18:58 < kanzure> er, yes, just regular public key
19:01 < delinquentme> what are you setting up?
19:01 < kanzure> scraper task queue, adapter models, orchestration
19:02 < nmz787> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geIsWq5xOSE
19:02 < nmz787> sry, i had to
19:03 < kanzure> legit
19:03 < kanzure> nmz787: you are now assistant professor of keeping it real in ##hplusroadmap
19:03 < nmz787> nice
19:20 < delinquentme> {"Psychology of Religion and Spirituality"=>[{"url"=>"http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/rel/index.aspx", "rss"=>"http://content.apa.org/journals/rel.rss", "index"=>"http://content.apa.org/journals/rel"}]}
19:20 < delinquentme> how does that get accessed?
19:20 < kanzure> some universities have a subscription to APA
19:21 < kanzure> http://www.apa.org/pubs/databases/psycarticles/index.aspx
19:21 < delinquentme> i mean w that data format
19:21 < kanzure> "PsycARTICLES® is a robust database offering complete access to the full text of nearly 80 landmark journals in behavioral science and related fields ranging from education, to nursing, to business, to neuroscience."
19:21 < kanzure> haha "robust"
19:21 < kanzure> i don't see why you are using a list?
19:21 < delinquentme> like how do I get the url for that element
19:22 < kanzure> it should be: {"Psychology of..." => {"url" => "...", ...}}
19:22 < kanzure> not {"Psychology of..." => []}
19:22 < kanzure> as it is right now, you would do something["Psychology of Religion and Spirituality"][0]["url"]
19:25 < delinquentme> shouldnt i be able to do something like item.sub_item
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19:32 < kanzure> delinquentme: if you want to do that then install hashie
19:33 < kanzure> x = Hashie::Mash.new({:"hello" => "world"})
19:33 < kanzure> x.hello will be "world"
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19:48 < delinquentme> ok so plain hashes ... give me the nice family["jason"]["name"]
19:49 < delinquentme> so why would I use json?
19:49 < delinquentme> i need to shave.. SO bad.
20:02 < kanzure> you would use json because it's better than sending over .sqlite db files
20:06 < delinquentme> but in this case by json
20:06 < delinquentme> you mean a really big hasfile
20:06 < delinquentme> hash file
20:06 < delinquentme> this pisses me off
20:06 < delinquentme> http://fellows.ted.com/profiles/skylar-tibbits
20:07 < delinquentme> this dude a TED fellow for making fucking "self assembling" blocks
20:07 < delinquentme> no. like gtfo.
20:07 < delinquentme> hes @ MIT.
20:07 < delinquentme> that. is.fucking.stupid.
20:08 < kanzure> being a TED fellow isn't that hard, it's more about who you know
20:08 < kanzure> at this point, at least.
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20:23 < kanzure> gasp. saurik isn't allowed to have ping timeouts..
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20:27 < nmz787> TED is sponsored by car companies and shit
20:28 < nmz787> a speaker here at RIT told me when he did a TED talk, (golan levin), the speakers met at the airport and were all like, ok we'll share a car
20:28 < nmz787> but each speaker had a sep car, and he mentioned to the driver the car was really quite
20:28 < nmz787> and immendiately a car sales pitch began
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20:29 < kanzure> haha
20:42 < kanzure> bleh yet another beaming standard http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ttstam/openbeam-an-open-source-miniature-construction-sys
20:42 < kanzure> what happened to makerbeam
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21:05 < ParahSailin> does seem to be redundant
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21:35 < kanzure> win 5
21:35 < kanzure> kdfljasdjfas
21:36 < delinquentme> kanzure, find gods match for you @ christianmingle.com
21:39 < kanzure> has anyone memorized his genome yet?
21:40 < jrayhawk> you might get in the habit of using ctrl-p and ctrl-n and grouping channels by topic so you don't need to go far
21:41 < kanzure> hrmm why is that so slow
21:41 < kanzure> weird
21:41 < kanzure> yeah ok i'll use that
21:52 < thylane> http://www.geek.com/articles/geek-cetera/bacteria-is-perfect-for-carrying-nanotech-inside-our-bodies-20120330/
21:53 < kanzure> are you going to implement any of the news articles you keep pasting?
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21:59 < thylane> what does "implement" mean in this context?
22:00 < thylane> YOu mean do this in my garage?
22:00 < kanzure> well mabye
22:00 < kanzure> *maybe
22:00 < kanzure> but i mean, what is your goal
22:00 < kanzure> with reading these articles
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22:07 < joshcryer> What's genome sequencing cost these days?
22:08 < joshcryer> I'm seeing it for $4,998 with an 'interpretation' through Knome.com ($3,750 without interpretation).
22:11 < kanzure> knome used to charge >$150,000 just four years ago
22:11 < thylane> kanzure   What would you prefer I do that is more fruitful activity?
22:11 < kanzure> joshcryer: are you sure that's whole genome sequencing?
22:12 < kanzure> thylane: i am trying to determine what your goals are. entertainment?
22:12 < thylane> kanzure   Knowledge of modern science?
22:14 < kanzure> Most people acquire knowledge of modern science by reading scholarly journals, not pop/news.
22:15 < joshcryer> kanzure, that's what it says on their site, no idea if legit. There's also Complete Genomics that I've found so far, but no pricing that I can see: http://www.completegenomics.com/
22:16 < joshcryer> http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/03/30/gattaca-here-we-come/
22:16 < kanzure> joshcryer: i know a few people who got their genomes sequenced by knome. but again, not for $5000...
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22:17 < joshcryer> kanzure, how long ago?
22:18 < joshcryer> Genome sequencing costs, as you know, are dropping quick.
22:19 < kanzure> joshcryer: 2008ish
22:19 < kanzure> sure sure
22:19 < kanzure> $5000 is pretty accessible. i wonder why i don't know anyone getting their whole genome sequenced now.
22:20 < thylane> will  joshcryer also receive the harsh indictment for not  posting  "scholarly journal"?
22:21 < joshcryer> I deserve one.
22:21 < kanzure> harsh??
22:21 < kanzure> are you paranoid
22:21 < joshcryer> I could just be posting somes sites PR stuff.
22:21 < kanzure> joshcryer: heh
22:21 < joshcryer> They say whole seqeuencing but I don't see the catch yet.
22:23 < kanzure> joshcryer: i think you will learn tremendously more by reading science instead of news articles
22:23 < kanzure> dkfajdfkal
22:23 < kanzure> i meant thylane
22:23 < kanzure> but i guess it goes for joshcryer too :)
22:23 < joshcryer> Ahah, sequence is 'optional.'
22:23 < kanzure> er what do you get if you don't have the sequence?
22:24 < joshcryer> "Our curation team manually updates our annotation database based on your phenotype of interest and project goals, ensuring the inclusion of all relevant research."
22:25 < kanzure> ok so it sounds like they might just be looking at single nucleotide polymorphisms
22:25 < joshcryer> Well fuck.
22:25 < kanzure> but you should call them to check
22:25 < yashgaroth> that and/or exome sequencing
22:25 < kanzure> ari j. kiirikki <akiirikki@knome.com>
22:25 < joshcryer> No on page 4 of their PDF they again state "whole genome sequencing."
22:25 < kanzure> 617-528-1672
22:26 < joshcryer> btw I'm interested in a service, who cares about the science behind the thing, $5k is cheap!
22:26 < kanzure> arguably you might have enough utility with just 23andme looking at your SNPs
22:27 < kanzure> but for some reason i have this irrational bias towads wanting my full genome sequenced
22:27 < joshcryer> I just want it on a USB stick.
22:27 < kanzure> usb sticks are knome's speciality
22:27 < ParahSailin> knome gives you the exome i think
22:28 < yashgaroth> they do say 30x coverage, interestingly
22:28 < ParahSailin> exon-ome
22:28 < ParahSailin> oh so they shotgun seq for 5k, nice
22:28 < joshcryer> Complete Genomics say 40x to 80x but again no pricing.
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22:29 < kanzure> knome gives you a sqlite database
22:29 < ParahSailin> that you have to assemble?
22:29 < kanzure> it has a few different tables
22:30 < kanzure> one table was reads
22:30 < kanzure> another table was individual genes iirc
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22:30 < kanzure> another table was an ordered set of fragments that combine to the genome?
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22:32 < joshcryer> Heh, Steve Jobs had his whole genome sequenced for $100k, we'll be able to get it for under $1000 in just a couple of more years. If there's any doubt about exponential technology curves...
22:33 < joshcryer> kanzure, where are you seeing that, if I may ask?
22:33 < kanzure> joshcryer: from the .db file i'm looking at
22:35 < joshcryer> NOVA S39E15 Cracking Your Genetic Code came out tonight which is what pipqued my interest in this
22:35 < kanzure> aha
22:35 < kanzure> um have you ever read anything by rob carlson?
22:35 < kanzure> he's the one that ray cites for all the biotehnology curves
22:35 < kanzure> *biotech
22:35 < kanzure> http://www.synthesis.cc/assets_c/2011/06/carlson_cost%20per_base_june_2011.html
22:35 < joshcryer> I haven't read anything by him nope.
22:35 < joshcryer> Ahh, glorious. :)
22:36 < kanzure> ok well look at the graph and then maybe read his blog
22:37 < joshcryer> Thanks
22:38 < kanzure> i guess you probably don't know about 23andme either
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22:39 < joshcryer> I googled it, I'm not really interested in that.
22:39 < joshcryer> I got Cryonics for a faulty genome. :P
22:40 < kanzure> wut?
22:40 < kanzure> 23andme reads the point mutations in your genome
22:40 < kanzure> so instead of reading the whole thing, you just read the parts that are probably different or varying
22:41 < kanzure> ParahSailin: back me up here
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22:41 < ParahSailin> 23andme just has a snp array chip
22:41 < kanzure> right
22:41 < joshcryer> It's admittedly cheap.
22:41 < kanzure> joshcryer doesn't know about snps, i think
22:42 < joshcryer> Nope
22:42 < yashgaroth> they usually do a special on DNA day if you wanna save money
22:42 < kanzure> but they are sorta going broke
22:42 < yashgaroth> thought they had that google money
22:43 < joshcryer> I mean, I'm not ashamed to admit that a genome sequence's utility for me would be merely novelty.
22:47 < yashgaroth> then I'd recommend you wait a year until it's $1k
22:48 < joshcryer> That's my thought as well.
22:49 < ParahSailin> i want to sequence the black soldier fly genome
22:49 < ParahSailin> and then put a cellulase enzyme from termites in them
22:49 < nmz787> why?
22:49 < joshcryer> ^- what he asked
22:50 < ParahSailin> ossumness
22:50 < ParahSailin> turn cellulose into insect protein
22:50 < kanzure> are you MAD?
22:50 < kanzure> good god man
22:50 < kanzure> (the answer better be yes)
22:50 < ParahSailin> and then into chicken protein
22:51 < ParahSailin> and then into me protein
22:51 < nmz787> why not just grow termites?
22:51 < ParahSailin> they dont really do that well in fed batch reactors
22:51 < ParahSailin> for one, black soldier flies self-harvest
22:51 < joshcryer> set them loose upon the world!
22:52 < joshcryer> /Crake
22:52 < ParahSailin> this would be the ultimate composting organism
22:52 < ParahSailin> save the world's soil
22:53 < joshcryer> and crops?
22:57 < kanzure> looks like a new ed boyden paper.. http://syntheticneurobiology.org/PDFs/12.03.chow.pdf
22:58 < kanzure> "Genetically encoded molecular tools for light-driven silencing of targeted neurons"
22:58 < kanzure> err.. a review?
22:59 < ParahSailin> i wish people wouldnt waste so much time on open source 3d printers and make a nice open source cnc mill
22:59 < kanzure> ed you're going a bit overboard in the acknowledgements section
22:59 < kanzure> ParahSailin: there are many options for making a cnc mill
22:59 < kanzure> i guess you did say "nice" heh
22:59 < kanzure> fenn: maybe you can drop some preferred machines
22:59 < ParahSailin> what are some good options
22:59 < joshcryer> IMO, arguably more of those projects are on YouTube than 3D printers.
23:00 < kanzure> man, i was so disappointed in my mom when she was about to drop $50k on a cnc machine
23:00 < kanzure> she didn't believe me that you can buy some for less than $5k
23:00 < kanzure> i should just buy her one
23:01 < joshcryer> OK your mom sounds cool.
23:01 < kanzure> she's a stripper
23:01 < joshcryer> Not sure if serious now.
23:02 < yashgaroth> hahaha
23:02 < kanzure> http://lwicustomcabinets.com/
23:03 < joshcryer> Hah
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23:04 < joshcryer> You must use that line a lot.
23:04 < ParahSailin> hm
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23:04 < kanzure> joshcryer: she uses it more than i do
23:04 < joshcryer> Love those photos of the chests.
23:05 < kanzure> manly chests
23:05 < kanzure> wait what?
23:05 < joshcryer> Heheh
23:06 < nmz787> so she strips wood of varnish?
23:06 < kanzure> correct
23:07 < nmz787> dude when i get a house, get your mom to hook me up with cheap cabinets
23:07 < nmz787> lol
23:07 < nmz787> nah i guess its better to buy local
23:07 < joshcryer> Those are well done, probably not cheap.
23:08 < kanzure> hand crafted at least
23:08 < kanzure> because she still doesn't have a cnc >_<
23:08 < kanzure> and here i am hauling around laser cutters and robot arms?
23:09 < ParahSailin> first priority is the copper electrorefining cell
23:11 < joshcryer> Do tell.
23:14 < ParahSailin> scrapping pre-83 copper cents
23:44 < augur> so
23:44 < augur> anyone dicking around with this emotiv headset?
23:46 < kanzure> augur: most recently, Mokbortolan_
23:47 < kanzure> see also https://github.com/qdot/emokit
--- Log closed Sat Mar 31 00:00:15 2012