--- Log opened Thu Apr 12 00:00:32 2012 00:13 -!- splicer [~ubuntu@c83-255-190-140.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:21 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-80-91.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:27 -!- splicer [~ubuntu@c83-255-190-140.bredband.comhem.se] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:34 -!- capiscuas [~capiscuas@ppp-115-87-255-247.revip4.asianet.co.th] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:54 < jrayhawk> http://chriskresser.com/rhr-chronic-stress-cortisol-resistance-and-modern-disease goddamn this is an interesting podcast 01:17 -!- roksprok_ [~roksprok@74.83.205.124] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 01:33 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:02 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:02 < delinquentme> cant slep 02:03 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:14 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:20 < delinquentme> kanzure, http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/title?j_type=online&j_startat=Aa&j_endat=Af&j_pagesize=200&j_page=1 02:20 < delinquentme> who are these guys 02:41 < delinquentme> im sorry wtf http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/wb/bk17540/2009 ? 03:11 < delinquentme> 1 MILLION queries http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY 03:20 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-76-105-164-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:21 -!- Moksparagus [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:28 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-76-105-164-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:42 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:49 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:49 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:50 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:15 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:17 -!- capiscuas_ [~capiscuas@ppp-58-11-78-145.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:20 -!- capiscuas [~capiscuas@ppp-115-87-255-247.revip4.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:32 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 04:32 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:37 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:56 -!- capiscuas_ [~capiscuas@ppp-58-11-78-145.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:03 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-18-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:06 -!- skorket [~skorket@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:07 < skorket> hey guys, I'm not sure if you'll know anything about this, but some guys around where I live want to make a hackerspace and I was curious about intellectual property issues. Do you know of any resources or hackerspaces where intellectual property is explicitely dealt with? 05:08 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:15 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:17 < Utopiah> skorket: there is #hackerspace AFAIR 05:17 < Utopiah> (if there is nothing in the hackerspace wiki) 05:18 -!- charlieschwabach [~charliesc@c-24-118-140-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: charlieschwabach] 05:18 < skorket> Utopiah, yeah, I'm there asking, just carpeting all the relevant channels I can think of 05:25 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:39 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:54 < diginet> HEAD ON APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FORE HEAD 05:58 < delinquentme> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 06:01 < delinquentme> digi 06:02 < delinquentme> diginet, do you know ruby? 06:06 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-81-13-133.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:39 < phryk> skorket: Intellectual property issues? You mean if you're going to be sued if you take a name like "Dr. Marios Lair" or something? 06:44 < skorket> phryk, no, more along the lines of, if person X creates a product Y using hackerspace resources, person X gets to keep copyright 06:46 < phryk> If unsure you should be able to define that in the spaces rules (if you are going to be an official organization) 07:09 -!- skorket [~skorket@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:09 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:11 -!- diginet [~diginet@adsl-69-153-135-2.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:12 -!- diginet [~diginet@adsl-69-153-135-2.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:26 -!- roksprok_ [~roksprok@FUSE-DEDICATED-66-117-226-130.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:39 -!- charlieschwabach [~charliesc@c-24-118-140-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:40 -!- charlieschwabach [~charliesc@c-24-118-140-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:44 < kanzure> skorket: usually copyright is not the thing that people are worried about when creating things at hackerspaces.. 07:45 -!- charlieschwabach [~charliesc@c-24-118-140-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:45 < kanzure> hi charlieschwabach 07:45 < charlieschwabach> hey 07:46 < charlieschwabach> you ready for venter? 07:47 < charlieschwabach> institute scientist who's name i cant remember and who inserted a synthesized yeast genome into a bacteria 07:47 < charlieschwabach> :) 07:47 < charlieschwabach> haha 07:47 < Utopiah> Craig 07:49 < kanzure> charlieschwabach: almost 07:50 < charlieschwabach> kanzure: awesome, good luck today 07:50 < kanzure> thanks 07:51 < charlieschwabach> utopiah: meant Dan Gibson - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibson_assembly 07:51 < charlieschwabach> utopiah: who i guess works @ the craig venter institute 07:52 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:52 < Utopiah> my bad, wasnt sure how to interprete the sentence 07:52 -!- roksprok_ [~roksprok@FUSE-DEDICATED-66-117-226-130.fuse.net] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 07:54 < charlieschwabach> utopiah: haha yeah i worded that really weirdly 07:58 < kanzure> from now on, all messages to ##hplusroadmap must be in Reverse Polish Notation 07:58 < kanzure> haha 07:59 < Coornail> lawl 08:01 < charlieschwabach> kanzure: writing lisp this morning? 08:01 < kanzure> writing code without breakfast 08:01 < kanzure> a dangerous practice 08:01 < Mariu> =p 08:02 < charlieschwabach> haha 08:02 < Mariu> http://mariakonovalenko.wordpress.com/2012/01/10/transhumanist-media-content/#comment-1099 08:03 * delinquentme sleeps 08:04 < Mariu> lol 08:04 < kanzure> charlieschwabach: gotta get started with the day on the good side of the bed.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwnM3eMh3Q8#t=1910 08:07 < charlieschwabach> kanzure: nice 08:07 < charlieschwabach> typical morning before breakfast ;) 08:13 < charlieschwabach> mariu: i think people work on transhumanism w/o calling that 08:14 < charlieschwabach> cancer / anti viral research is very mainstream 08:14 < charlieschwabach> and we definitely need that for radical life extension 08:14 < kanzure> regarding cancer.. http://pinkarmy.org/ but andrew hasn't done any work on this in forever 08:16 < charlieschwabach> kenzure: cool 08:16 < charlieschwabach> yeah, i think we need to just sequence everyone's cancer and make all of the data available 08:16 < charlieschwabach> along w/ their treatment / outcome 08:16 < Mariu> got it, Charlie 08:17 < charlieschwabach> mariu: not that i wouldn't love to see a life extension themed movie :) 08:17 -!- strages_work [~qwebirc@dev.throwthemind.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:17 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/aubrey.jpg 08:18 < charlieschwabach> awesome 08:18 < charlieschwabach> so if you make an laser to cut microfluidics chips 08:18 < charlieschwabach> how hard is it to make a cheap sequencer? 08:18 < kanzure> a cheap sequencer is at least 1 order of magitude easier than dna synthesis 08:19 < kanzure> *magnitude 08:19 < charlieschwabach> do you think you can beat illumina? 08:19 < kanzure> a *competitive* sequencer.. not quite 08:20 < charlieschwabach> ahh, cool.. yeah it is already cheap 08:20 < kanzure> there's 30+ next-generation sequencing companies all with >$5M in funding 08:20 < Mariu> Charlie, watch Curiosity with Adam Savage 08:21 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@82.158.3.63.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:21 < Mariu> the episode title is 'Can I live forever ?' 08:21 < Mariu> nice, kanzure 08:21 < kanzure> Mariu: i don't recommend television for learning about longevity research 08:21 < Mariu> the picture of Aubrey 08:21 < kanzure> that just sounds like a bad idea 08:21 < Mariu> what does ? 08:22 < kanzure> start reading instead: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/ 08:22 < Mariu> ah, yeah 08:22 < kanzure> learning about longevity from TV 08:22 < Mariu> gotcha 08:24 < charlieschwabach> kanzure: discussing his blog post about promoting transhumanism.. so cool for discovery channel viewers to watch that over 'ancient aliens' / whatver 08:24 < charlieschwabach> also nice directory, bookmarking that for later 08:50 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.185.81] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:53 < kanzure> hrmm http://blog.makezine.com/2012/04/12/open-source-hardware-association-announced/ 08:53 < kanzure> http://www.oshwa.org/ 08:53 < kanzure> "Here are your board members so far: Danese Cooper, Alicia Gibb, Catarina Mota, Windell Oskay, Nathan Seidle, Wendy Selzer." 08:53 < kanzure> who elected those nuts? 08:54 < kanzure> well at least there's windell 08:57 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:57 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-76-105-164-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:57 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:59 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-76-105-164-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:59 < kanzure> hi lichen 09:29 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:30 -!- diginet [~diginet@adsl-69-153-135-2.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@safekick-americas-2.consolidated.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:35 < _F7_> whoo, new client 09:39 < kanzure> hi _F7_ 09:39 < kanzure> has anyone here used sqlmap before? 09:39 < _F7_> Not I. 09:40 -!- azonenberg [~azonenber@2001:470:888b:2:206:70ff:fe01:46] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:50 < _F7_> just reading the logs. 09:50 < _F7_> I'll be touch-and-go as I'm at work 10:02 -!- roksprok [~Zac@74.83.205.124] has quit [Quit: roksprok] 10:21 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:21 -!- azonenberg [~azonenber@2001:470:888b:2:206:70ff:fe01:46] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:23 -!- amphetamine [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:23 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:27 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:27 -!- amphetamine [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:28 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:31 < kanzure> why is dna most often portrayed vertically instead of horizontally? 10:31 < kanzure> if you google image search for "dna" you get lots of vertical images 10:42 < Mokbortolan_> because it's described as a staircase or ladder 10:42 < Mokbortolan_> probably 10:43 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:50 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:52 -!- amphetamine [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:52 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:56 < charlieschwabach> looks better that way bcs of aspect ratio of book/magazine pages too 10:56 -!- amphetamine [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:11 -!- strages_work [~qwebirc@dev.throwthemind.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:24 < _F7_> kanzure, did diginet ever dropbox you his arachnofiber papers? 11:25 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:25 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:32 < kanzure> _F7_: no 11:37 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@safekick-americas-2.consolidated.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 11:38 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@safekick-americas-2.consolidated.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:49 -!- nathaniel_ [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:50 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:07 -!- juul [~juul@68.65.169.175] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:08 -!- nathaniel_ is now known as nathaniel 12:08 < kanzure> hah interesting.. their new 'open hardware association' was rejected by NY "for being too promotional". go figure. 12:09 < kanzure> "As a 501c3 we won't be allowed to fund OSHW projects though." whaat?? 12:09 < juul> weird 12:11 < Mariu> whatever is a threat to them, gets rejected 12:12 < kanzure> there are already 501c3s for open source hardware 12:12 < kanzure> they were rejected because they are too spammy. which is my opinion of them. 12:12 < kanzure> juul: see pm 12:14 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:20 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [] 12:25 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:29 < kanzure> yashgaroth: ok might not be needing you for today's call 12:29 < yashgaroth> awww 12:29 < kanzure> well 12:29 < yashgaroth> I'll keep an eye on the channel just in case 12:29 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@129.21.146.205] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:29 < kanzure> i'm getting over a wicked headache right now heh 12:30 < nmz787> kanzure: uh oh! 12:30 < kanzure> nmz787: nah i'll be fine 12:30 < nmz787> kanzure: simon msged again, this time including his 'friend' the shrinky dink lady 12:30 < kanzure> gah we definitely don't want shrinky dinks 12:30 < nmz787> nope 12:30 < nmz787> she hasnt' replied 12:30 < kanzure> is simon trying to throw us off? :P 12:31 < nmz787> i guess this is the engineering you get for free 12:31 < nmz787> or at least the free stuff from people who aren't excited to help, or who aren't good friends 12:31 < kanzure> i thought we knew simon pretty well :( 12:32 < nmz787> i only internet know him 12:32 < kanzure> me too 12:32 < kanzure> but technically, i mostly internet know you 12:32 < nmz787> so for my human bio 3 lab course I'm teaching.... i had the students draw what we've been doing in class... for a agrade 12:32 < nmz787> since they're mostly art students 12:32 < kanzure> what did they draw? 12:33 < nmz787> medical illustration, biomed photo 12:33 < nmz787> hah 12:33 < nmz787> bacteria being streaked on a plate 12:33 < kanzure> anything good? 12:33 < nmz787> yeah a few 12:33 < nmz787> now i know who to email when i need illustrations done 12:33 < nmz787> :D 12:34 < nmz787> 'for extra credit. draw this dna synthesizer' 12:34 < kanzure> pfft 12:43 -!- diginet [~diginet@adsl-69-153-135-2.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:45 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:47 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@129.21.146.205] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:51 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:00 < diginet> so I think with duckweed, I might just be able to get the density I need 13:00 < diginet> hooray 13:00 < _F7_> cool 13:01 < diginet> the problem is, it requires the use of a custom vector, which means expensive gene synthesis 13:01 < diginet> (to target the chloroplast 13:01 < _F7_> Diginet, how goes compiling all of your arachnofiber papers onto dropbox for kanzure? 13:01 < diginet> ) 13:01 < diginet> _F7_ I keep coming across more stuff! my bandwidth drops off during the day, so I have to do it at night 13:02 < _F7_> ah 13:03 < diginet> I think I could reasonably produce maybe 1kg of silk in a week using a not too unreasonable amount of land 13:03 < diginet> (i.e. some spare area in my back yard I can put planters in) 13:03 < _F7_> You know, between your arachnofiber synthesis research and the 'urban armor' phryk is working on you have part of the opening chapter of snowcrash. 13:03 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:03 < diginet> haha 13:03 < diginet> I would use it for something far less interesting 13:04 < diginet> (well, to other anyhow) 13:04 < _F7_> His uniform is black as activated charcoal, filtering the very light out of the air. A bullet will bounce off its arachnofiber weave like a wren hitting a patio door, an excess of perspiration wafts through it like a napalmed forest. Where his body has bony extremities, the suit has sintered armorgel; feels like gritty jello, protects like a stack of telephone books. 13:05 < kanzure> does anyone remember when tudor boloni was pitching us the explosive styrofoam armor cocoon? 13:05 < diginet> I've not gotten through all of Snow Crash, the whole "Sumerian is the assembly language of the brain" thing kind of turned me off 13:06 < diginet> Sumerian, except for freaks like me, is much less interesting than that 13:06 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:06 < yashgaroth> well you should finish it cuz snow crash is awesome 13:06 < _F7_> It's a story element. I liked all of the weird Enki stories. 13:06 < phryk> _F7_: I'm not yet really working on it :P 13:07 < _F7_> what are you working on? 13:07 < phryk> currently? not much… 13:07 < phryk> only started project i have laying around is a little fun thing I call the 'penis proxy' :P 13:07 < phryk> little perl script for fucking around with post data, not even working yet :P 13:07 < _F7_> I went to a party like that 13:07 < _F7_> oh 13:08 < diginet> yashgaroth, _F7_ oh I know, I shouldn't get hung up on it, I just am of the mindset that history and linguistics are are interesting enough by themselves without the pseudoscientific technobabble 13:08 < phryk> it's just going to be a little proxy server substituting words in post data with 'penis' mostly because I was stoned and thought that would be a good idea :P 13:08 < _F7_> hahahahaha 13:08 < _F7_> have you looked at mallory? 13:08 -!- strages_work [~qwebirc@24.96.165.227] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:09 < _F7_> Transparent TCP and UDP proxy 13:09 < _F7_> You can intercept and do fun fun fun 13:09 < phryk> nope, i looked at privoxy, squid and some other proxies and none were really able to do what I wanted or had no doc on it. 13:10 < phryk> The proxy needs to understand http :P 13:10 < kanzure> phryk: jrayhawk has been working on a proxy that turns everything into TimeCube sites 13:10 < diginet> phyrk, I implemented something similar with firefox, except for audiophile forums. I have a list of meaningless words they use like "air" and what have you, and substitute them with things more indactive like, instead of "all in all it has more air" "all in all it has more /needless expenditure of money/" 13:10 < phryk> then a guy from the local hackerspace pointed me to a little proxy he wrote with HTTP::Daemon 13:11 < phryk> diginet: Heh, but I need this to be an own service. My plan is setting up another AP on my freebsd box with only port 80 open and that tunneled through the proxy 13:12 < phryk> so someone comes by the house, thinks "hey, free wifi!" logs on to facebook wanting to post something like "Haha, idiots can't secure their wifi!" and ends up posting "Penis penis penis penis lol!" 13:12 < phryk> I know a real attribution to the cause of bettering humanity. :P 13:13 < kanzure> isn't facebook behind ssl? 13:13 < Mokbortolan_> my sister got onto an unsecured wifi of one of her neighbors, found their wireless printer, and printed out instructions on how to secure their model of wireless router :p 13:13 < kanzure> well i guess you can capture the ssl certs 13:13 < phryk> kanzure: you can access it over port 80 as well. last time i checked that even was the default behaviour 13:13 < _F7_> Mallory is good at that stuff 13:13 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:13 < _F7_> It's like wireshark+tampering 13:14 < phryk> and when port 443 doesn't work, they ought to try it without ssl… 13:14 < diginet> phryk, OOH I did something like that 13:14 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:15 < diginet> except I caught my neighbours using my wifi, so I played a little game, first I put ads (with help of ddwrt), then I caused the page to be flipped, then I put a customer support line if they were having "issues" (which was my google voice number) and basically told them to get their own internet 13:15 < diginet> good times 13:15 < phryk> heh 13:16 < phryk> ddwrt is an open router firmware based on openwrt, right? 13:16 < Mokbortolan_> right 13:16 < phryk> I knew something! \o/ 13:26 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@p5B13B519.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:26 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@p5B13B519.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:26 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:36 < kanzure> davidad guest lecturing in marvin minsky's class http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW77lANeJas 13:37 < kanzure> hrmm 13:37 < kanzure> ""Currently, the IRS has elected to take all recent applications for tax exempt status whose mission is to deliver open source technology for public benefit into a special review cycle. "" 13:39 < _F7_> Where are you reading that? 13:40 < _F7_> I need to go over whatever it is and make sure TX/RX doesn't get screwed with. 13:40 < kanzure> http://www.trustthevote.org/contribute/irs-status 13:41 < _F7_> okay I'm in the clear 13:41 < _F7_> thx 13:43 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:52 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-18-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:59 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Quit: Tribes: Ascend.] 14:00 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@c-24-118-174-49.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:00 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@c-24-118-174-49.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:00 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:00 < _F7_> hello superkuh 14:01 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-18-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:01 < superkuh> Hello. 14:07 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:08 -!- ybit2 [~ybit@131.252.130.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:08 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-81-13-133.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:08 -!- fenn [~fenn@131.252.130.248] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:08 -!- ybit [~ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:09 -!- fenn [~fenn@131.252.130.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:09 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-81-13-133.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:10 < kanzure> fenn: hi 14:11 < kanzure> yashgaroth: will you be alright? 14:11 < yashgaroth> with what 14:11 -!- amphetamine [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:12 < kanzure> yashgaroth: not being on the call 14:12 < yashgaroth> I'll live 14:12 < kanzure> ok i just don't want to clutter it 14:13 < yashgaroth> it's cool, I'll be here if y'all need anything 14:13 -!- amphetamine_ [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:13 -!- amphetamine_ is now known as AdrianG 14:14 -!- amphetamine_ [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:14 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:14 -!- _amphetamine [~amphetami@CPEbcaec5a734bc-CM001bd713703a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:14 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.185.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:16 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.185.81] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:16 -!- amphetamine [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:17 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:17 -!- AdrianG is now known as _AdrianG 14:17 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:18 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-18-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:19 -!- amphetamine [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:19 -!- amphetamine is now known as AdrianG 14:20 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.185.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:21 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@82.158.3.63.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:22 -!- _AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:22 -!- _amphetamine [~amphetami@CPEbcaec5a734bc-CM001bd713703a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:22 -!- _amphetamine [~amphetami@CPEbcaec5a734bc-CM001bd713703a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:23 -!- _amphetamine [~amphetami@CPEbcaec5a734bc-CM001bd713703a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:23 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Client Quit] 14:23 -!- deep-fried-art [~hank@71-14-124-16.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:23 < kanzure> deep-fried-art: yo 14:24 < kanzure> long time no see? 14:25 -!- amphetamine_ [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:28 -!- dbolser [~dmb@server0.bioinformatics.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:29 < dbolser> hello 14:29 < kanzure> dbolser: hi! 14:30 < kanzure> dr. bang? 14:31 < kanzure> yashgaroth: dan has some info about tdt i think 14:31 < kanzure> that you can possibly harvest 14:31 < yashgaroth> TDT? 14:31 < dbolser> I met Dr Bang in korea talking about engineering a new codon in bacteria 14:31 < dbolser> tdt? 14:32 < yashgaroth> the recombination polymerase? 14:32 < kanzure> oops, one of the deoxy terminalases 14:32 < kanzure> i think i meant terminal ligase 14:32 < dbolser> I may have mis-remembered 14:32 < dbolser> lets see ... where is teh 'enzymatic synthasis' group? google does a good job of hiding groups 14:33 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/enzymaticsynthesis 14:33 < dbolser> ty 14:33 < kanzure> _F7_: http://mach30.org/about/public-records/tax-exempt-status-documentation-and-process/ 14:34 < kanzure> from a friendlie org 14:34 < dbolser> Terminal DNA transferase # my mistake 14:34 < nmz787> dbolser: interesting 14:34 < dbolser> TDT :-D 14:34 < deep-fried-art> hey kanzure 14:35 < dbolser> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/enzymaticsynthesis/0QXaktOWpU0/discussion 14:35 < nmz787> dbolser: did he elaborate at all how he might go about using TDT 14:36 < dbolser> no, not specifically, but one could imagine a promiscous enzyme and dNTP cycles 14:36 < dbolser> or ddNTP to 'terminate' then wash, cycle, etc. 14:36 < kanzure> i think juul's strategy was interesting 14:36 < kanzure> using nucleotide-binding enzymes that switch on/off similar to tRNA connectors 14:40 < dbolser> anyone doing anything useful with nano-fluidics? 14:41 < dbolser> I'm just wondering how many dNTPs you could put in a micro-bubble 14:42 < dbolser> is it impossible to imagine using florescence to sort micro bubbles containing single dNTPs? 14:43 < yashgaroth> as in single molecules or single types of bases? 14:43 < dbolser> you could then sort the stream of bubbles into any given order and just drop them into a reaction chamber one by one... but I gues you need space for the DNA to grow, which means kinetics would suck 14:43 < dbolser> yashgaroth: single molecules 14:44 < dbolser> bubbles can flow at massive rates and flow sorting can be done in specific ways to very high accuracy 14:44 < dbolser> I've seen a specific example of pairing bubbles from two different sources 14:44 < dbolser> with 1000's of bubbles paired per second. 14:44 < yashgaroth> you'd still need a 99+% guarantee of exactly one molecule per bubble 14:45 < dbolser> of course, it's a different matter to sort 4 sources into an abitrary, pre-defined order, but it could work 14:45 < dbolser> yashgaroth: I've changed my mind on that, I've just come up with a killer solution .... perhaps 14:45 < yashgaroth> oh? 14:46 < dbolser> you have 4 terminator ddNTP sources and one 'de-protection' source which needs to be chemical rather than enzymatic (for convenience) 14:47 < dbolser> you have your growing DNA with a promiscous, template free pol, or TDT in a fixed volumn reaction chamber 14:47 < dbolser> then you flow ddNTP, deprotect, ddNTP, deprotect, ddNTP, deprotect microfluidic bubbles at very high rates into teh chamber 14:48 < dbolser> let me find the paper... 14:48 -!- deep-fried-art_ [~hank@71-14-124-16.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:48 < yashgaroth> if you can find a chemical deprotection method that won't destroy the pol...though I suppose you could just add pol at every step 14:49 < dbolser> true, but sticking enzymes in bubbles is challenging (it's totally doable though) 14:49 < dbolser> http://www.bioc.cam.ac.uk/uto/hollfelder.html The lab I saw talk 14:50 < yashgaroth> it's also starting to sound a lot like traditional phosphoramidite synthesis, except with a pol instead of a chemical condensation 14:51 < dbolser> not familiar 14:51 -!- deep-fried-art [~hank@71-14-124-16.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:52 < dbolser> can't find the paper right off... 14:52 < dbolser> basically they designed a microfluidic gate that let them pair bubbles (emulsions) from two differnet sources with very high fidelity 14:53 < dbolser> I wan't to find it to look up the flow rate, which IIRC was phenominal 14:55 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@safekick-americas-2.consolidated.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:56 < dbolser> bah, anyway, you also need some way to control the order of ddNTP bubbles 14:57 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:02 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:04 < dbolser> found it with google image search: 15:04 < dbolser> http://web.media.mit.edu/~manup/research/bubble-logic/images/sync-motion-6.jpg 15:05 < dbolser> that design synchronizes the two bubbles comming off on the right. you then send one round a little longer, and merge the flows to get perfect sorting of bubbles into a b a b a b 15:06 < dbolser> http://web.media.mit.edu/~manup/research/bubble-logic/ 15:06 < dbolser> Passive microfluidic bubble synchronizer 15:07 < dbolser> still no info on rates 15:07 < yashgaroth> it's not impossible to imagine syncing four types, or even five with the deprotectant 15:07 < dbolser> right, but we need to precisely control the order of the four 15:09 < dbolser> operating at a 15:09 < dbolser> constant flow rate of Qw=0.5 µl/sec 15:10 < dbolser> ?? I want bubbles per sec, to get a rough feel for how fast the reaction could proceed 15:10 < yashgaroth> that's a rather high flow rate, half a microliter is huge 15:10 < dbolser> obviously computer controling and error checking the flow would slow it down 15:10 < dbolser> the value I have in my head is millions of bubbles per second, but I can't belive that's true 15:11 < dbolser> http://www.stanford.edu/~manup/Manu_Prakash__Lab_website/Publications_files/MicroTAS-07-synchronization.pdf 15:14 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:14 < dbolser> although I feel like a this is just dumb speculation, I don't imagine that the technical challenge of electronically sorting 4 microbubble sources into a given order is very high 15:15 < yashgaroth> indeed 15:15 < dbolser> you then synchonize that source with your deprotectant, and wash the whole stream into some kind of reaction chamber 15:15 < dbolser> that's tricky to design 15:16 < dbolser> you want kinetics such that each wash is 99.999999% likely to add a given terminal dNTP (to synthesize up to a few kb) 15:17 < dbolser> (with high accuracy) 15:17 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:18 < dbolser> so the contents of each new bubble should wash out the other.... or you could have wash bubbles.... dntp, wash, deprotect, wash, dntp, wash, etc. 15:18 < yashgaroth> so you will need to mix pol in with the dNTPs 15:18 < dbolser> ok, perhaps the design of the reaction vessle is secondary, it all comes down to computer cotrolled streams of arbitrary sources of bubbles 15:18 < dbolser> unless you have the pol fixed, holding onto the growingdna 15:19 < dbolser> growing dna 15:19 < yashgaroth> mmmm with those kinds of flow rates you'll keep knocking it off, at least at some level 15:19 < dbolser> it's much easier and cheper to just have chemical washes I think... (I'm not an expert in bio-microfluidics) 15:19 < dbolser> yeah, I hadn't thought about that 15:20 < dbolser> ensymes tend to stick to the bubble surface in emulsion 15:20 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@82.158.3.63.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:20 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@82.158.3.63.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:20 < dbolser> I'm not even sure of the mechanics of streaming all these bubbles into a 'reaction chamber'.... like where does the lipid go? 15:21 < dbolser> anyway, I figure the idea has legs ;-) 15:21 < yashgaroth> wait what lipids 15:21 < dbolser> to make the bubbles, you emulsify your aquious solution of chemicals with a lipid IIRC 15:21 < dbolser> or perhaps a zwiterion 15:22 < dbolser> they are little aquious chambers in an oil emulsion 15:22 < yashgaroth> ah right 15:22 < dbolser> the chemical nature of the oil determines the surface properties, and needs to be taylored to the enzyme you want in the bubble 15:23 < dbolser> because protins are quite oily, it can be a pain to get them 'in' the solution within the bubble 15:23 < yashgaroth> proteins are typically amphipathic 15:23 < yashgaroth> unless they're small enough to be totally hydrophilic 15:24 < dbolser> but it all comes down to chemical engineering at the end of the day. Design the mixture right, and you can get what you need 15:24 < dbolser> yup 15:24 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:24 < dbolser> I guess we need an expert to look at costs of various strategies... I've no lab experience, so I don't know the cost of enzymes :( 15:25 < yashgaroth> if you're only using nanograms of enzyme at a time, their cost is negligible 15:26 < dbolser> I figure an expert in the field would say, nice idea, but how are you going to make it work... 15:27 < dbolser> perhaps... but you buy pure enzyme that works, not just by the gram ;) 15:27 < dbolser> well... I have to find a file to send to some people... oh joy 15:27 * dbolser goes off to find a file... sigh 15:30 < dbolser> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1fEHLarRZk 15:31 < dbolser> 4,000 frames /s ... 15:32 < dbolser> OK, I figure we have eough to go build a prototype ;-d 15:32 < dbolser> :-D 15:35 < dbolser> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AENnU0vdjPo 15:39 < kanzure> ok i am back 15:40 < dbolser> summary? 15:41 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:44 < kanzure> dbolser: you can make bubbles without lipids 15:44 < kanzure> dbolser: devastation. i don't want to talk about it. 15:45 < dbolser> oh 15:45 < kanzure> see im 15:47 -!- deep-fried-art__ [~hank@71-14-124-16.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:49 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:49 -!- deep-fried-art_ [~hank@71-14-124-16.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:49 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:14 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:29 -!- deep-fried-art__ [~hank@71-14-124-16.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has quit [Quit: deep-fried-art__] 16:34 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:56 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:03 < kanzure> lichen: are you around? 17:17 < kanzure> dbolser: beads are stored in drops 17:17 < dbolser> yup 17:18 < dbolser> where do 6mers come from (sorry) 17:19 < kanzure> one sec. phone call >_< 17:19 < dbolser> np 17:20 < dbolser> actually I have to sleep now... 17:20 < dbolser> night all 17:22 < kanzure> it's first in first out storage of drops on the chip 17:23 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:35 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:43 -!- roksprok_ [~roksprok@74.83.205.124] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:43 < roksprok_> hi all 17:44 < kanzure> hi roksprok_ 17:44 < roksprok_> hope the call/pitch went/goes well 17:45 < roksprok_> i bet everyones been saying that to you guys today though 17:45 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45 < roksprok_> in other news i think lesswrong has officially become a cult 17:45 < kanzure> roksprok_: i'm conflicted; could've been better, could've been worse 17:46 < kanzure> roksprok_: it's been a cult ever since singularitarianism 17:46 < roksprok_> i applied for their 'rationality minicamp' and half the questions were 'would you start a lesswrong meetup in your home town?' 17:46 < kanzure> oh their "SUPERPOWERS" camp? ugh 17:47 < roksprok_> and 'frequentists suck!' 17:47 < kanzure> wait... dont you have to pay for the camp? 17:47 < kanzure> why would you pay for that 17:48 < roksprok_> i would not pay...i more did it as a practice interview 17:48 < kanzure> send me $12,000 and i'll put you through super transhumanism bootcamp 17:48 < kanzure> ##hplusroadmap style bootcamp 17:49 * kanzure will bbl 17:49 < roksprok_> i think that would actually take off...if i had 12000 dollars i would do it 17:50 < kanzure> it would be Hacker School + Singularity University + some new things 17:50 < kanzure> https://www.hackerschool.com/ 17:50 < kanzure> http://devbootcamp.com/ 17:51 < kanzure> then some molecular biology training 17:52 < roksprok_> could you contract with some h-plus oriented companies to make it free? i think practical training in high-tech stuff is the future of education 17:52 < roksprok_> also you would be able to get people to work on all the projects you want to see done 17:53 < roksprok_> i think its codeacademy or something where they get money by getting you hired at the end of your session 17:53 < kanzure> that's also what those two links do 17:53 < kanzure> recruiting fees. 17:54 < roksprok_> i wonder if there would be demand for something like that from biotech companies 17:54 < roksprok_> or if they have enough qualified post-phd people 17:58 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:03 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:08 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-80-91.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:10 < kanzure> roksprok_: there's a tremendous amount of available, cheap phd labor 18:10 < kanzure> and cheap post-grad labor 18:11 < roksprok_> i figued...one reason i am not getting a phd 18:11 < roksprok_> it seems to be either you get lucky and get training in a good niche or you're an expensive lab tech 18:12 < roksprok_> and to be honest i doubt i would make it all the way from phd to post doc to assistant prof to tenure 18:13 < kanzure> or you start a company 18:13 < roksprok_> well i am hoping that i can just start a company once i become a bit more capable 18:13 < roksprok_> without going through the long process 18:14 < kanzure> how goes the protocol scraper? 18:15 < roksprok_> decently....it goes a bit slow because often i have to take a few hours to get up to speed on some new thing 18:15 < kanzure> you should bug me when that happens :) 18:15 < kanzure> i would be very happy to explain things 18:15 < kanzure> and/or give you misinformation because i'm cruel 18:16 < roksprok_> i think there is enough misinformation on the internet....you would be wasting your cruelness 18:16 < kanzure> aw. 18:17 < roksprok_> bioengineer a race plague or something 18:17 < roksprok_> give the fbi agents something to do 18:17 < roksprok_> :-P 18:22 < kanzure> *shrug* they are busy organizing the next diybio/fbi conference 18:31 < nmz787> kanzure: i emailed mac a few days ago, havent heard anything back 18:32 < nmz787> kanzure: asked what was up, why the sites were down 18:32 < kanzure> o.o 18:32 < kanzure> awkward 18:32 < kanzure> you should just call him 18:33 < kanzure> 231-313-9062 or 775-553-5005 18:36 -!- bkero [~bkero2@li280-127.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:36 -!- bkero [~bkero2@osuosl/staff/bkero] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:37 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38 < kanzure> delinquentme: ping? 18:39 < Mariu> [04:39] [kanzure PING reply]: 1sec 18:40 < Mariu> kanzure, do you play EvE - Online ? 18:42 < kanzure> nope 18:47 -!- roksprok_ [~roksprok@74.83.205.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:49 < yashgaroth> oh that stuff about autoimmune induction was from biohack, I shoulda figured 18:56 -!- roksprok_ [~roksprok@74.83.205.124] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:58 < nmz787> pretty good video of simple microfluidic production for cell culture 18:58 < nmz787> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2586867/ 18:59 < kanzure> "Shrinky-Dink Hanging Drops: A Simple Way to Form and Culture Embryoid Bodies" 18:59 < kanzure> this? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2586867/bin/jove-13-692.mov 19:00 < kanzure> wtf why are they manually counting anything 19:02 < roksprok_> i tried shrinky dinks and they came out 'wrinkley' for lack of a better word...like they had unevenly shrunk. obviously i wasn't using as sophsticated a setup as them but i doubt it would be suitable for your micron-scale stuff 19:02 < nmz787> nah def not thinking for us 19:03 < roksprok_> i figured...but just in case 19:03 < kanzure> roksprok_: when did you try it out? 19:03 < roksprok_> for that nematode maze thing 19:04 < roksprok_> i basically just made channels .5 mm by 50mm...so it was an entirely different scale than you're working with 19:04 < roksprok_> i ended up failing at keeping my nematodes apart/getting an accurate count and they died before i started class at a place with a microscope 19:05 < kanzure> a common problem 19:07 < roksprok_> it was still fun though...so not all was wasted 19:08 < roksprok_> is davidad still planning on doing a nematode upload? 19:08 < roksprok_> his papers seem to be more computer science 19:09 < kanzure> uhh let me ask 19:09 -!- bkero1 [~Ben@li280-127.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:10 < kanzure> he might swing by the channel in a few minutes 19:10 < roksprok_> cool! 19:10 < kanzure> also did you see the video from earlier today? 19:11 < kanzure> dis one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW77lANeJas 19:11 < roksprok_> yes...i am going to watch it on the bus tomorrow 19:11 < roksprok_> thank you 19:11 -!- davidad [~davidad@75-144-175-74-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:12 < kanzure> roksprok_: there you go sir 19:12 < nmz787> who is the prof and the speaker? 19:12 < kanzure> nmz787: prof is marvin fucking minsky 19:12 < kanzure> speaker is davidad 19:12 < roksprok_> sweet... 19:12 < davidad> Hi. 19:12 -!- bkero1 [~Ben@li280-127.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:12 < davidad> Actually, Marvin's middle name is Lee. 19:13 -!- bkero1 [~Ben@li280-127.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:13 < kanzure> ah i wasn't aware 19:13 < roksprok_> hi davidad...are you still planning to do the c elegans 'upload' 19:13 < davidad> Yes. 19:13 < davidad> I'm a first-year Ph.D. student in a field I had absolutely no background in before arriving 19:14 < davidad> so I've been full-time taking classes and learning basic lab techniques 19:14 < roksprok_> awesome....is it connected with your reconfigurable logic automata work? or are they pretty separated 19:14 -!- bkero1 [~Ben@li280-127.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:14 < davidad> They're pretty separated. 19:14 < davidad> You have to go to a fairly high level of abstraction to see any connection 19:14 < davidad> which is that I'm generally interested in how to organize computations 19:14 < davidad> RALA is one way to organize computations, which turns out to be not actually very good... 19:14 -!- bkero1 [~Ben@li280-127.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:14 < nmz787> davidad: what were you in before phd? 19:15 < davidad> so I decided to change gears and see how Nature does it. 19:15 < roksprok_> ok that is good...honestly most of the math is over my head....was woried i was missing something 19:15 < kanzure> ah you're doing wetlab training now? 19:15 < davidad> Yep...did my first PCR and gel last week 19:15 -!- bkero1 [~Ben@li280-127.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:15 < kanzure> hah. well. you'll probably do it 10,000 more times 19:15 < davidad> Indeed 19:15 < juul> hehe 19:16 < juul> I did my first hela cell transformation yesterday 19:16 < davidad> nice! 19:16 < nmz787> juul you still in emeryville? 19:16 < davidad> nmz787: my background is in programming language theory, software engineering, computer architecture, AI 19:16 < juul> nmz787, no, Stanford now. Only three days a week though. 19:17 < nmz787> davidad: cool 19:17 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:18 < kanzure> charlieschwabach: davidad is the one who wrote parts of kokompe 19:18 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:19 < kanzure> roksprok_: and why not mention your nematode troubles 19:19 < juul> nmz787, where are you? 19:20 < roksprok_> davidad have you done neural recordings from nematodes yet? 19:20 < nmz787> juul: still in rochester, upstate NY 19:21 < juul> ok 19:21 < davidad> roksprok_: I'm afraid not. I've done some imaging with unc-119::GFP but I have yet to make D95N or GCaMP3 constructs. 19:22 < davidad> My new PI suggests starting with ChR2 stimulation - much more reliable than readout - and see what can be learned from closed-loop behavioral perturbation 19:23 < roksprok_> ooo that is even better...does that mean you're leaning towards flourescent imaging rather than using contact electrodes? 19:23 < davidad> Most certainly. 19:23 < davidad> Although I haven't completely ruled out contact electrodes -- 19:23 < davidad> Ed Boyden has a new patch-clamping robot which may make the protocol attainable for mere mortals 19:24 < davidad> but despite his enthusiasm, it won't make getting through the cuticle any easier 19:24 < kanzure> neat. iirc henry markram's group just does it manually with an xbox controller to guide the patch clamping 19:24 < roksprok_> http://www.princeton.edu/neuroscience/collaborative-research-in/AbstractsPDF/Franzesi.pdf 19:24 < roksprok_> Automated whole-cell patch clamp electrophysiology of neurons in vivo 19:25 < davidad> That's the one 19:25 < roksprok_> cool thanks 19:26 < davidad> But I'm in love with optics. Anything I can do optically, I will. 19:26 < kanzure> haha. you wouldn't happen to know someone who could help me with the optics for a submicron laser cutter, would you.. 19:26 < davidad> submicron? 19:26 < davidad> Good luck with that... 19:27 < nmz787> spot size of ~1 micron 19:27 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27 < nmz787> i think we just need a plano convex lens 19:27 < kanzure> well. yeah, not submicron. but 1 micron would be great. 19:27 < roksprok_> honestly i can't imagine what high-throughput patch-clamp would look like....a porcupine 19:27 < davidad> gotcha 19:27 < juul> \ 19:27 < davidad> yeah, pretty much...I doubt one could get more than a dozen good signals at once 19:28 < davidad> and even that would be insane 19:28 < nmz787> can't you have a pH indicator fluorophore to see the neural transduction along the neuron? 19:28 < roksprok_> it would make for an awesome science/nature cover photo though 19:29 < nmz787> what flows into the cell K+ right? 19:29 < davidad> K, Na, Cl, some Ca are all involved 19:29 < kanzure> nmz787: you can do all sorts of things.. some people do azobenzene or gfp in the ion channels 19:29 < davidad> but yeah pHluorin is a possibilty 19:30 < nmz787> so its mostly a pH increase? in the cell...? I guess you'd have to have a really sensitive dye 19:30 < kanzure> there are also voltage sensitive dyes 19:30 < nmz787> is that not the same here? 19:31 < davidad> - synapto-pHluorin 19:31 < davidad> not the same 19:31 < nmz787> lewis acid vs bronsted 19:31 < kanzure> "Synaptic Activity of the AFD Neuron in Caenorhabditis elegans Correlates with Thermotactic Memory" 19:31 < davidad> but yeah there are a lot of things to try...once I learn how to transform worms... hopefully some of them will work :) 19:32 < kanzure> electroporation? 19:32 -!- juul [~juul@68.65.169.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:32 < davidad> of what, the cuticle? 19:32 < kanzure> the whole organism why not :P 19:32 < davidad> :P 19:32 < davidad> no, transformation happens by microinjection into the gonad 19:33 < roksprok_> may i ask if success would be the ability to predict which neurons would fire depending on which are stimulated? 19:33 < roksprok_> and so on and so on.... 19:33 < davidad> that's a great question 19:34 < davidad> C. elegans in particular is difficult to think about digitally 19:34 < davidad> because it uses graded potentials 19:34 < davidad> rather than action potentials 19:34 < davidad> so, we can't pretend that there is a neat sequence of states with each state taking a value on a 302-dimensional hypercube and some transition probabilities between each pair of states 19:34 < roksprok_> >:-0 did not know that 19:35 < davidad> I think this is a good thing because I suspect even the mammalian brain does not do a whole lot of "digital" computation, at least not in the way we are inclined to think about it 19:35 < davidad> instead, we have to think about the C. elegans nervous system as a dynamical system 19:36 < davidad> with some attractors, and some energy barriers between those attractors 19:36 < davidad> and lots of interacting feedback loops 19:36 < kanzure> and phase transitions? 19:36 < davidad> bifurcations to be sure, though they may not meet the statmech criteria as "phase transitions" precisely 19:37 < kanzure> i think this is what amit wrote about 19:37 < davidad> but the goal is to sort of figure out what state space really looks like, where the trajectories are, and how to map that space to observables like behavior and activation levels 19:37 < kanzure> Modeling brain function: the world of attractor neural networks. 1989 19:37 < roksprok_> would it be possible to get the....are they called evolution rules? 19:38 < davidad> if you're referring to learning, plasticity or development, I'm explicitly leaving those out for the scope of my PhD 19:39 < nmz787> davidad: can they do two photon with a DMD chip? 19:39 < roksprok_> do c. elegans have much plasticity? 19:40 < davidad> nmz787: not that I'd heard of. google turns up http://link.aip.org/link/doi/10.1117/12.874681 19:40 < davidad> roksprok_: not much, but some. there's certainly no adult neurogenesis and little if any rewiring, but synaptic strengths can certainly be modified 19:41 < davidad> for instance, they can learn attractions to previously neutral odors 19:41 < nmz787> sounds about what i was looking for 19:42 < nmz787> davidad: how would you use two-photon microscopy without something like that DMD paper for the zebrafish... seems like it would be moving around too much to use a single focus 19:43 < nmz787> i.e. you need a movie of more than 1 pixel 19:43 < davidad> nmz787: you paralyze it 19:44 < davidad> hasn't been published yet, but look for "Brain-wide neural dynamics at single-cell resolution during motor adaptation in larval zebrafish" coming out in Nature later this year by Ahrens et al 19:44 < nmz787> by stopping neurons, or cutting muscle? 19:45 < davidad> no effect on neurons, it's a toxin that is highly specific to muscle cells, from some African snake's venom 19:46 < roksprok_> have you heard of randall koene/substrate independent minds? if so....are you optomistic or is he seen as a bit of a kook by the academic community 19:47 < davidad> randal is a friend 19:47 < davidad> personally I believe he has exactly the right fundamental ideas 19:47 < kanzure> roksprok_: everyone knows randal in here 19:48 < davidad> however, I'm pretty shy about talking in that way in the academic world 19:48 < davidad> as is Ken Hayworth, whose desk I sat next to for a couple months 19:48 < roksprok_> very cool....i found his stuff really inspiring 19:48 < davidad> yeah...we were both very happy to find someone else who "gets it" 19:48 < davidad> incidentally, ed boyden also gets it, as you may be able to tell 19:49 < davidad> but most scientists don't 19:49 < roksprok_> did Ken do the brain slicer? 19:49 < davidad> yes, that's right 19:49 < kanzure> davidad: have you talked with todd/3scan lately 19:49 < davidad> not since SfN in November 19:49 < kanzure> iirc they finally got a space 19:49 < davidad> cool 19:50 < kanzure> damn so i've never been to Society for Neuroscience 19:50 < kanzure> kinda missing out 19:50 < davidad> it's quite a thing 19:51 < davidad> I think it's the largest event of any kind I've ever been to 19:51 < davidad> larger than a baseball game, or a rock concert 19:51 < davidad> not as large as a presidential inauguration, but I've never been to one of those 19:51 < roksprok_> was it around 30,000 people or more? 19:52 < davidad> 32,357 19:52 < roksprok_> wow 19:52 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:53 < davidad> it's an interesting phenomenon 19:53 < davidad> neuroscience is a small enough field that they can manage to basically get everyone at a single conference 19:53 < davidad> but only just 19:53 < davidad> so it's one of the largest conferences around 19:54 < diginet> sounds like a party 19:54 < roksprok_> i am suprised the 'anthropology of scientists' haven't written a bunch about it 19:54 < davidad> in computer science, for instance, there is no Society for Computer Science conference that every computer scientist goes to 19:54 < yashgaroth> I think it is the largest...AACR is maybe half that number 19:54 < davidad> just a lot of small conferences with a thousand or two attendees 19:55 < roksprok_> do you think that helps people stay focused on the 'bigger picture' and work together to solve problems or do people kinda hang out with their niche 19:56 < davidad> it's certainly a lot of fun to walk around the exhibit hall because it's like walking around the entire field of neuroscience 19:56 < davidad> but when you leave sfn, you don't really stay in touch with people who weren't in your specific area 19:56 < davidad> so I don't think it has any lasting effect 19:57 < roksprok_> ah...i see 19:59 < roksprok_> is ed boyden your advisor? or does that not happen till later 20:01 < davidad> I'm actually at both MIT and Harvard right now 20:01 < davidad> I'm a PhD student at Harvard and a Research Affiliate at MIT 20:01 < davidad> Ed is my advisor at MIT 20:01 < davidad> my advisor at Harvard is going to be Sharad Ramanathan, if all goes according to plan 20:01 < kanzure> aha so ed is sponsoring you.. hell yeah 20:02 < davidad> exactly :) 20:02 < kanzure> well i don't think i'd pick anyone else 20:02 < roksprok_> very cool...hope things do go according to plan 20:02 < davidad> thanks! 20:02 < roksprok_> is ramanathan the connectome guy? 20:03 < kanzure> no that's seung 20:03 < kanzure> sebastien seung 20:03 < kanzure> sebastian 20:03 < davidad> I know seung, he's cool 20:03 < davidad> but he's fallen into the kurzweil trap 20:04 < kanzure> being a grumpy old man watching the stock market? 20:04 < davidad> err 20:04 < davidad> no, not that one ~_^ 20:04 < davidad> rather, he does too much writing and public speaking and pandering to the lay public 20:04 < davidad> which makes him look a lot stupider than he actually is 20:05 < davidad> and commits him to oversimplifications 20:05 < roksprok_> and grand promises 20:05 < davidad> indeed 20:05 < kanzure> my beef with ray is summarized by the essays here: http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ 20:06 < kanzure> well i guess that's not a summary. 20:06 < kanzure> rather, the inevitability and commercial undertones 20:06 < roksprok_> maybe it will help increase neuroscience funding? that would at least help you all 20:07 < davidad> it hasn't yet 20:07 < davidad> the only funding it's increased is seung's publisher's 20:07 < davidad> :P 20:07 < kanzure> good business models and business might help 20:08 < kanzure> fighting over research funding is vicious 20:08 < davidad> yes, it is 20:08 < davidad> see http://davidad.net/nelson/ 20:08 < kanzure> it's like.. what, a few billion dollars a year? 20:10 < nmz787> i saw seung recently 20:10 < nmz787> he spoke at my school 20:12 < roksprok_> so i know kanzure will punch me for bringing this up...but i read davidad.net/nelson/ and the marketing/commericialization problem seems to be along the line of something i was thinking of earlier... 20:12 < davidad> yeah? 20:12 < roksprok_> but what do you think of a non-profit research center that spun off for-profits? 20:13 < davidad> sounds good to me 20:13 < kanzure> haha 20:13 < kanzure> i was telling roksprok_ that he would have to find funding somehow 20:13 < kanzure> by writing grants or something 20:13 < kanzure> which isn't a steady stream of income 20:13 < davidad> to be fair, it only has to be bootstrapped to profitability 20:13 < roksprok_> and hopefully being funded by the equity in those for-profits, with some going to the researchers/internal people who worked on it to encourage practical research 20:14 < davidad> hopefully ~10 years 20:14 < kanzure> bootstrapping means 5-15 years 20:14 < kanzure> yes 20:14 < davidad> that's the sort of thing that can be achieved with a few wealthy individuals 20:14 < davidad> I have a meeting with Peter Thiel in 3 weeks on exactly this subject 20:14 < kanzure> haha. throw in a good word for us! 20:15 < kanzure> ah that's right you also missed 20under20 20:15 < kanzure> i was a little sad about that 20:15 < davidad> I didn't miss it, per se 20:15 < kanzure> oh you're like one year younger than me i think 20:15 < davidad> I considered it, and talked to people at the foundation about it 20:15 < roksprok_> i also think it would help with the innovator's dilemma....as the for-profits would not be the ones deciding wether or not to commercialize stuff 20:15 < davidad> we concluded that I'm in a unique position where being in academia is actually probably a good thing 20:16 < davidad> so I didn't apply 20:16 < davidad> figured the money is better used on people who are "worse off" in some sense 20:17 < kanzure> not surrounded by.. say.. marvin mensky, ed boyden, sebastian seung, sharad ramanathan.. 20:17 < davidad> right 20:17 < kanzure> *minsky 20:17 < kanzure> oh and those other fablab people heh 20:17 < roksprok_> and i'm pretty sure phd funding is more than 100,000 20:17 < roksprok_> or whatever 20under20 fellows get 20:18 < davidad> no, actually 20:18 < davidad> being a phd student is not very lucrative 20:18 < kanzure> $40k/year aww yeah 20:19 < davidad> almost 40k, heh 20:19 < roksprok_> well...i assume you will be there more than three years... 20:20 < davidad> well, sure 20:20 < davidad> but the thiel fellowship is two years 20:20 < roksprok_> oh i did not know that 20:20 < davidad> and income is best measured in dollars per unit time, not total dollars 20:20 < roksprok_> true 20:21 < roksprok_> are you planning on staying in academia then? or too early to say? 20:21 < roksprok_> i mean....working towards tenure 20:21 < davidad> not unless I am beat over the head with offers 20:22 < davidad> like, if Stanford asks me nicely to be a professor and says I only have to teach one class a year and can do whatever I want 20:22 < davidad> well, fine 20:22 < davidad> but that is not very likely 20:22 < roksprok_> starting a company/commercializing your research or getting funding from elsewhere? 20:23 < davidad> my goal is to fix research as an institution 20:23 < davidad> to create the next Bell Labs 20:23 < davidad> whatever that may be 20:23 -!- strages_shop [~strages@adsl-98-81-13-133.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:23 < roksprok_> laudable....but very difficult! 20:24 < davidad> it's a long-term goal! 20:24 < davidad> :) 20:24 < davidad> and having Peter Thiel on board helps >.> 20:25 < roksprok_> yes...and if you succeed it will be truly world changing 20:25 < davidad> right 20:25 < davidad> what about you? 20:25 < davidad> it sounds like you may have a similar goal 20:26 < kanzure> davidad: have you seen my pitch deck http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/nucleic/su-slides.pdf 20:26 < davidad> but maybe it was just something you were daydreaming about :) 20:26 < davidad> kanzure: nope 20:26 < roksprok_> so this may be an odd question...but i know Thiel funds the singularity institute, and they don't seem to look to highly on things that accellerate AI/brain emulation...would Thiel fund something that would do that? or does he agree with FAI or nothing? 20:27 < davidad> I have Eliezer's approval on safety concerns. 20:27 < davidad> He's not worried about superintelligent worms. 20:27 < davidad> Mice, maybe, but that's a ways off 20:28 < davidad> Thiel recognizes that brain emulation is underaddressed in his current portfolio 20:28 < davidad> so he's actually more interested in funding it than other approaches which he kind of has covered already in some sense 20:28 < roksprok_> davidad: i would like to see 'minds', 'cognition' and 'consiousness' become something as editable/fungible/understood as thermodynamics/circuits/ect.... 20:29 < davidad> absolutely! 20:29 < roksprok_> very good to know! i know he is probably aware, but Ted Berger has done awesome stuff towards 'replacement parts for the brain' he calls it 20:30 < delinquentme> davidad, who are you? 20:30 < delinquentme> one of the 20 under 20? 20:30 < kanzure> davidad: btw, i hear halcyon is liquidating 20:30 < delinquentme> a alex and all those kids? 20:30 < davidad> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=davidad 20:30 < kanzure> delinquentme: call now? 20:31 < davidad> kanzure: really? I hadn't heard that 20:31 < kanzure> davidad: people are taking equipment off their hands haha 20:31 < roksprok_> their website is wiped 20:31 < delinquentme> cool 20:31 < katsmeow-afk> kanzure has been announcing that in here for a week now 20:31 < davidad> haha 20:31 < delinquentme> kanzure, im all kinds of pissy right now 20:31 < davidad> well, it's news to me 20:31 < delinquentme> busted website wont parse correctly 20:32 < kanzure> delinquentme: show me 20:32 < kanzure> delinquentme: consider using webkit to parse it 20:32 < delinquentme> http://www.lww.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultCmd?storeId=11851&catalogId=9012052&langId=-1&searchTerm=journal#docType=0&pageSize=300&storeId=11851&langId=-1&catalogId=9012052&searchTerm=journal&resultCatEntryType=&beginIndex=0&sType=&searchTermScope=&facetFields=%2CpublicationDate_facet%2CpubFrequency_facet%2CauthorNames_facet%2Cprimary&filterValue=productType_facet%3A%22Journal++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 20:32 < delinquentme> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++%22%7C%22Journal+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 20:32 < delinquentme> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++%22&sortBy=productNameSort+asc 20:32 < delinquentme> that 20:32 < kanzure> the fuck is that url 20:32 < delinquentme> ( not kidding ) 20:32 < delinquentme> is a site-generated URL 20:32 < delinquentme> one of the fields in there specs 300 entries 20:33 < kanzure> &sortBy=productNameSort+as <---- can probably be attacked with sql injection 20:33 < kanzure> &sortBy=productNameSort+asc 20:33 < davidad> o_O 20:33 < delinquentme> yeah hence &pageSize=300 20:33 < kanzure> davidad: we are forming 'science liberation front' 20:33 < davidad> uh oh 20:34 < kanzure> davidad: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/ezproxy.py 20:34 < delinquentme> davidad, but yeah its cool we've got a legit scientist whos onboard w the Theil opz 20:34 < davidad> pirating articles, are we? 20:34 < delinquentme> nah just indexing 20:34 < kanzure> davidad: ALL of them 20:34 < davidad> lol 20:34 < delinquentme> thus far its totally legal :D 20:34 < kanzure> yep. 20:34 < delinquentme> kanzure, I also tried feeding that URL into a bit.ly to see if there was something w weird encoding 20:35 < delinquentme> ( didnt help ) 20:35 < kanzure> why is this not parsing ? 20:35 < kanzure> are you saying the url is broken 20:35 < kanzure> or the html is bad 20:36 < delinquentme> so I can open up the page. however all the IDs that im seeing in browser 20:36 < delinquentme> are of different values in mechanize / noko 20:36 < delinquentme> so yeah a webkit might be the answer 20:36 < kanzure> maybe it's a POST 20:36 < kanzure> and not a GET? 20:37 < delinquentme> true! 20:37 < davidad> kanzure, it looks like they decided to leave the sequencing business because Oxford Nanopore 20:37 < davidad> so it makes sense that they're getting rid of TEMs and such 20:37 < kanzure> davidad: yeah but that also sounds crazy 20:37 < davidad> they're going to focus on synthesis instead 20:37 < davidad> watch out ;P 20:37 < kanzure> what 20:37 < delinquentme> IDK right now im just gonna press on w maney 20:37 < kanzure> synthesis. fuck them. 20:37 < davidad> lol 20:37 < kanzure> oh well 20:37 < delinquentme> davidad, they're doing synth now? 20:37 < kanzure> they probably won't do it open source 20:37 < kanzure> so i'm safe 20:38 < davidad> http://pandodaily.com/2012/02/22/new-competitive-threat-forces-halcyon-molecular-to-accelerate-its-game-plan/ 20:38 < davidad> most recent update I can find 20:38 < kanzure> see, when i talked with them they told me their game plan was "SEQUENCE EVERYTHING" 20:38 < kanzure> "and if someone gets cheap sequencing before us, then we will focus on selling microscopes" 20:39 < kanzure> by 'talked with' i mean "interviewed with" 20:39 < kanzure> so i'm a little annoyed they lied to me 20:39 < delinquentme> im a little bitter this is public information and I've not heard about it 20:39 < delinquentme> << semi halcyon fanboy 20:39 < delinquentme> 3/4ths 20:39 < davidad> halcyon plays it secretive all right 20:39 < delinquentme> tis the pivot no? 20:40 < kanzure> ah no that was just what elon was saying 20:40 < kanzure> i spoke with some others and they say that elon was in panic mode 20:40 < kanzure> so i'm not convinced they are doing gene synthesis. pandodaily is not a reliable source anyway. 20:40 < kanzure> panicy invester + pandodaily => not trustable 20:40 < kanzure> *investor 20:41 < yashgaroth> I don't see how reading sequences via TEM translates into synthesis 20:41 < davidad> it doesn't! 20:41 < davidad> thus wiping their website and selling their TEMs 20:41 < davidad> it's effectively a reboot of the business 20:41 < yashgaroth> but then they'll just be another phosphoramidite company 20:42 < davidad> knowing halcyon, they'll never be "just another" anything 20:42 < kanzure> yashgaroth: nah they could be doing whatever gen9bio is doing 20:42 < yashgaroth> fair enough 20:42 < kanzure> or whatever i'm doing 20:43 < kanzure> davidad: ah but they told me they wanted to *sell* microscopes as a business 20:43 < kanzure> not as a liquidation event 20:43 < kanzure> like they wanted to manufacture ad sell them. 20:43 < kanzure> that was coming from michael andregg 20:44 < davidad> yeah that doesn't make any sense really 20:44 < kanzure> this is why i chose not to work for them 20:44 < katsmeow-afk> was there supposed to be a book at http://blog.davidad.net/post/8483102117/the-problem-with-agi ? 20:44 < davidad> fair enough 20:44 < roksprok_> one of their application questions was 'how would you build an electron microscope in a 1mm cube?' 20:44 < kanzure> no it wasn't 1mm cube was it? it was just in general? 20:45 < davidad> katsmeow: nope, that's just an image. ben said it at AGI-11 and it resonated with me, so I typeset it. 20:45 < roksprok_> i thought i remember there was a space constraint...but the website is dead so .... 20:45 * davidad shrugs 20:45 < katsmeow-afk> oh 20:45 < kanzure> ben goertzel is very anti-SIAI 20:45 < kanzure> that's about his one redeeming quality 20:46 < davidad> the funny thing is, people like us spend so much time with people who share our mindsets, that we forget how much we have in common 20:46 < davidad> imagine for example a debate between Ben Goertzel and David Chalmers 20:46 < davidad> whose side would you be on then? 20:46 < kanzure> about what 20:46 < davidad> consciousness 20:46 < kanzure> i don't believe in that 20:46 < kanzure> and iirc both of them do 20:46 < kanzure> so neither of them 20:46 < davidad> lol 20:46 < davidad> fine 20:46 < kanzure> game over? :) 20:47 < kanzure> davidad: hey you should be all for anti-consciousness 20:47 < delinquentme> YIL the CEO of koenigsegg started when he was 22 years old , with no engineering background and protoyped his first car with parts from supplier sponsors 20:47 < davidad> I am anti-consciousness 20:47 < kanzure> davidad: instead of modeling the brain as conscious, you model it as a non-linear system 20:47 < roksprok_> such an iconoclast... 20:47 < delinquentme> bad ass right? 20:47 -!- strages_shop [~strages@adsl-98-81-13-133.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:47 < davidad> delinquentme: indeed! 20:47 < davidad> yeah, I don't believe in consciousness either 20:48 < delinquentme> supplier-effing-sponsored 20:48 < kanzure> it causes more problems than it's worth 20:48 < davidad> I'm aligned with Daniel Dennett 20:48 < delinquentme> consiousness? 20:48 < davidad> Chalmers particularly pisses me off 20:48 < davidad> Goertzel doesn't really piss me off about anything, he seems to have mostly the right ideas 20:48 < davidad> I don't think his project is going anywhere, but I have no problem with that 20:48 < kanzure> eh. goertzel threatened legal action against me so i had to cut him off. 20:49 < davidad> oh dear :/ 20:49 < kanzure> my thoughts too. 20:49 < davidad> why? 20:49 < davidad> that is, what was he threatening to act on? 20:49 < kanzure> he was angry when i didn't renew a software contract for hplusmagazine 20:49 < davidad> ah. 20:49 < davidad> I may regret joining H+... 20:49 < kanzure> you definitely will 20:49 < kanzure> i do! 20:50 < davidad> I've already gotten various people I don't know adding me on facebook and asking me to vote for them 20:50 < kanzure> ah yeah i hate that 20:50 < kanzure> i was involved as director of r&d for about a year 20:50 < roksprok_> what are the votes for....board of directors or something? 20:50 < kanzure> they are going nowhere 20:50 < kanzure> it's just not worth the effort 20:50 < davidad> roksnprok_: yes 20:50 < davidad> whoa where'd that 'n' come from 20:50 < davidad> anyway yeah, I agree 20:50 < kanzure> tab completion? 20:50 < roksprok_> kanzure may i ask if your parting was amicable? 20:50 < kanzure> roksprok_: it was not 20:51 < kanzure> again- threats of legal action for silly things 20:51 < davidad> I only joined to vote for Tom McCabe, who I actually like 20:51 < kanzure> i just don't want to deal with that drama 20:51 < davidad> bleh. 20:51 < kanzure> what's it going to get me? hplusmagazine? why are they doing a blog anyway 20:51 < kanzure> oh yeah we're going to publish in the one dying media 20:51 < kanzure> magazines! OF COURSE! 20:51 < davidad> I thought the magazine was pretty cool 20:51 < kanzure> and then pay $10,000/mo for an editor to spam reddit/digg about it 20:52 < kanzure> it's offline 20:52 < davidad> having a physical magazine made the whole memespace feel more legit somehow 20:52 < roksprok_> it is not printing anymore...is it? 20:52 < kanzure> oh nope it's back 20:52 < kanzure> roksprok_: nope 20:52 < kanzure> it's just a bunch of populist drivel :( 20:52 < davidad> true 20:52 < kanzure> anyway. let's get back to intergalactic superlasers 20:52 < davidad> I didn't like _reading_ the magazine, I just liked holding it :P 20:52 < Mariu> ^^ 20:52 < kanzure> haah 20:53 < kanzure> fair enough 20:55 < delinquentme> kanzure, ingenta connect? 20:55 < delinquentme> they 20:55 < delinquentme> 've got to be brand new 20:55 < delinquentme> they're another aggregatorrrrr 20:55 < kanzure> huh? no i think ingenta is at least 10 years old 20:55 < delinquentme> and i've got a head ache from staring 20:56 < delinquentme> their shit looks really clean for being that old 20:56 < delinquentme> surprising 20:56 < davidad> yeah I remember using ingenta in college (i.e. pre-2005) 20:57 < delinquentme> i might be able to knock a few more of these out w that 20:57 < delinquentme> im about half way 20:57 < delinquentme> meh 20:57 < davidad> kanzure: you don't have genscript listed as a competitor? 20:58 < delinquentme> lololol http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/editors/27734/?p1=A2 20:58 < kanzure> davidad: doh 20:58 < kanzure> well i also dont have dna2.0 20:58 < kanzure> i'm just selling devices 20:58 < kanzure> not a service 20:58 < delinquentme> TIL ycomb 'me too' startups happen @ the country level too 20:59 < kanzure> davidad: also i'm self-funding it so far 21:00 < davidad> delinquentme: that's pretty nifty 21:03 < delinquentme> kanzure, u saw my shit about koenigsegg 21:03 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:03 < delinquentme> while microfluidics != headers 21:03 < delinquentme> its an option 21:03 < kanzure> suppliers? 21:03 < delinquentme> yeah 21:03 < kanzure> suppliers of what ? 21:03 < delinquentme> IMO its a really fucking good option too 21:04 < delinquentme> ah well 21:04 < davidad> supplies of reagents, maybe? 21:04 < delinquentme> you know for ahem 21:04 < delinquentme> protptyping 21:04 < delinquentme> derrr 21:04 < kanzure> davidad: why would they want to support something that reduces the dependence on reagents, heh 21:04 < delinquentme> fingers 21:04 < kanzure> delinquentme: i'm still not sure what supplier you are talking about 21:04 < davidad> microfluidic synthesis doesn't reduce dependence on reagents, does it? 21:05 < kanzure> davidad: way less volume 21:05 < kanzure> also, i want to do protein purification on a chip eventually 21:05 < davidad> fair enough 21:05 < kanzure> and possibly use nano sieves to not lose the enzymes after each reaction 21:05 < delinquentme> yeah but lower vol / reaction only means just that 21:05 < delinquentme> lower use per reactions 21:06 < delinquentme> http://www.technologyreview.com/biomedicine/37204/ << forgot about this 21:07 < delinquentme> ehhhh quakes lab again 21:07 < delinquentme> Y ACADEMIA U SO INBRED 21:07 < kanzure> what's wrong with quake? his work tends to be solid 21:07 < kanzure> also pdms membrane/pressure valves 21:07 < kanzure> and he did the first microfluidic sanger sequencer iirc 21:08 < kanzure> ah fluidigm is quake. didn't know that.. 21:09 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@82.158.3.63.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:10 < delinquentme> nothing wrong with it 21:10 < delinquentme> just nedz more 21:10 < kanzure> http://www.fluidigm.com/chips-kits.html 21:10 < kanzure> "EP1 System is also compatible with the world’s first reusable chips for SNP genotyping which will ultimately drive costs to one cent per genotype." 21:11 < kanzure> wonder why no generic sequencer is being commercialized there 21:13 -!- charlieschwabach [~charliesc@c-24-118-140-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: charlieschwabach] 21:18 < davidad> cheers folks 21:18 -!- davidad [~davidad@75-144-175-74-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 21:19 < delinquentme> between u and me kanzure ( and all the other cool kids here ) 21:19 < delinquentme> this is something I want to get good at 21:19 < delinquentme> suppliers are in industry 21:19 < kanzure> here's their form 10-Q 21:19 < kanzure> http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ABEA-5TB8PR/1789707350x0xS1193125-11-311107/1162194/filing.pdf 21:19 < kanzure> $82 mil in assets 21:19 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:21 < kanzure> $28 mil in product revenue ending 2011 21:22 < delinquentme> qualifies as fucking incredible huh 21:22 < delinquentme> sac 21:22 < delinquentme> needs 21:22 < delinquentme> hit 21:22 < delinquentme> later! 21:22 -!- charlieschwabach [~charliesc@c-24-118-140-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:24 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:25 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:25 < kanzure> huh it had a $77 mil IPO? that's sorta small 21:27 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:27 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-80-91.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:29 < kanzure> "Product margin: 67%" 21:34 < klafka> what is that? 21:34 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@82.158.3.63.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:39 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:39 < kanzure> net losses of 218 million 21:40 < kanzure> klafka: reading fluidigm's form 10-Q http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ABEA-5TB8PR/1789707350x0xS1193125-11-311107/1162194/filing.pdf 21:43 -!- roksprok_ [~roksprok@74.83.205.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:48 < kanzure> what?? "Our performance is substantially dependent on the performance of our senior management and key scientific and technical personnel, particularly Gajus V. Worthington, our President and Chief Executive Officer. We do not maintain fixed term employment contracts with any of our employees" 21:57 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:01 -!- ybit2 [~ybit@131.252.130.248] has quit [Changing host] 22:01 -!- ybit2 [~ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:03 < Mokbortolan_> uhh 22:03 < Mokbortolan_> fixed-term employment contracts = we will pay you for 1 year 22:03 < Mokbortolan_> so, like, regular salaried employees, I think 22:03 -!- ybit2 is now known as ybit 22:04 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:07 < kanzure> Mokbortolan_: ah so it's probably at-will 22:51 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Quit: the neuronal action potential is an electrical manipulation of reversible abrupt phase changes in the lipid bilayer] 22:51 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:54 -!- sylph_mako is now known as a 22:54 -!- a is now known as Guest57296 22:58 -!- Guest57296 is now known as sylph_mako 23:11 < kanzure> wow this is endless: 23:11 < kanzure> http://addyosmani.github.com/backbone-fundamentals/ 23:39 -!- Stieru_Ridir [~Steel@cpe-67-246-36-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:43 -!- Stee| [~Steel@cpe-67-246-36-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] --- Log closed Fri Apr 13 00:00:33 2012