--- Log opened Fri Apr 13 00:00:33 2012 00:05 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has quit [] 00:05 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:11 < kanzure> lichen: thx 00:12 < lichen> hmm? 00:12 < kanzure> the call 00:12 < kanzure> i am lagging 00:12 < lichen> oh, np 00:12 < lichen> thanks for the help on my job hunt 01:00 -!- azonenberg [~azonenber@2001:470:888b:2:206:70ff:fe01:46] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:02 -!- azonenberg [~azonenber@2001:470:888b:2:206:70ff:fe01:46] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:22 -!- charlieschwaba-1 [~charliesc@c-24-118-140-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:22 -!- charlieschwabach [~charliesc@c-24-118-140-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:30 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:30 -!- splicer [~ubuntu@c83-255-190-140.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:32 -!- splicer [~ubuntu@c83-255-190-140.bredband.comhem.se] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:41 -!- splicer [~ubuntu@c83-255-190-140.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:42 -!- splicer [~ubuntu@c83-255-190-140.bredband.comhem.se] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:07 -!- charlieschwaba-1 [~charliesc@c-24-118-140-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: charlieschwaba-1] 04:02 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@p5B13B77E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:02 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@p5B13B77E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:02 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:43 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:51 < strangewarp> Hmmm. Seeing some intellectuals making anti-singularity arguments based on a rejection of the New Aesthetic's tendency to anthropomorphize machine vision.. 04:52 < strangewarp> silly 05:03 -!- anelma is now known as elmom___ 05:04 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@129.21.144.215] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:05 -!- nmz7871 [~Nathan@129.21.144.215] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:05 < nmz7871> hey 05:09 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@129.21.144.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:30 -!- dbolser_ [~dbolser@nat8150.ebi.ac.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:30 -!- dbolser [~dmb@server0.bioinformatics.org] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:31 -!- dbolser_ is now known as dbolser 05:31 < dbolser> hi 05:48 < gedankenstuecke> hey dbolser :) 05:51 -!- nmz7871 [~Nathan@129.21.144.215] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:10 < kanzure> dbolser: yo 06:29 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-18-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:01 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:08 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:10 < kanzure> "The nice bit about this arrangement is that it indeed more or less works as a CUPS printer on the network (you have to do a little more than just install the proper CUPS driver on your computer to get it to work). But after you got the driver to work, you can lasercut from any vector software. We usually use Inkscape for that purpose." 07:10 < kanzure> http://www.laoslaser.org/ 07:10 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:10 < kanzure> chris_99: hi 07:10 < chris_99> hola kanzure 07:12 < kanzure> "The laser tube is warranted for nine months, and it can used around 9000hours For the 80w laser tube cost of replacement is USD403 (EXW price) (for this laser tube the biggest power can arrive 95w)" 07:32 < kanzure> http://reprap.org/wiki/Lemon_Curry 07:32 < kanzure> hrm what? "since DIY for polymers is not realistic due to various governmental restrictions on purchase and shipments of some raw materials" 07:32 < kanzure> what "Cure rates will be possible under 0.2 seconds per layer or slice" 07:33 < kanzure> "This will allow for build rates over 1 inch per minute." 07:33 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:35 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-80-91.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:35 < katsmeow-afk> sorta off topic, but not, i wonder what happens if you build a UV-cureable polymer device, and then use it indefinately outside in sunlight, will it be UV damaged? 07:36 < kanzure> presumably after curing it can't cure more ? 07:36 < katsmeow-afk> but can it be broken apart? 07:37 < kanzure> presumably not with UV 07:37 < katsmeow-afk> or, can it form additional bonds, and warp? 07:38 < katsmeow-afk> once cured, do they outgas, or can they be USDA approved for food contact? 07:39 < katsmeow-afk> it's not outlandish set of questions, someone may want to print all or part of a pizza maker for use in sports tailgate parties 07:42 < kanzure> katsmeow-afk: how's your knowledge of lenses and beam focusing 07:44 < katsmeow-afk> not on par with most people's here 07:44 < katsmeow-afk> played with telescopes, cameras, other oculars, not seriously, not professionally 07:45 < katsmeow-afk> and atm, i have, i think, "a common cold", which is disconcerting, i seldom lower myself to anything "common", or "human" 07:49 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:51 < katsmeow-afk> that brings up anotehr interesting question tho: after a pass of a UV diode to cure a plane in the resin, the deck lowers, should the diode carrier be oriented to harden the next plane AND still be pointed at the previous plane, to avoid hardening a thicker plane than desired? What is the depth of cure of a pass? 07:52 < katsmeow-afk> if your Z step is .1mm, won't you get significant errors if the UV cure depth is 1mm? 07:52 < kanzure> there are people in #lemoncurry at the moment who could answer that question 07:52 * katsmeow-afk is too shy 07:52 < kanzure> also: this is nice. http://data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/6856/high-standards-top-100-users-that-rarely-upvote 08:02 < katsmeow-afk> usa Pentagon orders dual focus eye-contact-lenses for eyeglass HUD http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17692256 , "By wearing our contact lens you automatically have this multi-focus, or dual-focus, and you are doing something that humans don't usually do." 08:04 < kanzure> oh it looks like bluray lasers are already focused to a <500 nm spot size 08:16 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:17 < delinquentme> has y comb released a list of companies they're sponsoring this round? 08:19 < kanzure> look at the demo day schedule 08:22 < kanzure> spot size calculator http://buildlog.net/cnc_laser/laser_calcs.htm 08:26 < delinquentme> im not seeing the link 08:27 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@81.61.34.232.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:41 -!- SDr [SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:56 -!- charlieschwabach [~charliesc@c-24-118-140-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:57 < delinquentme> kanzure, im ready when you are 09:03 < kanzure> delinquentme: yep ok 09:03 < delinquentme> fire when ready 09:04 < delinquentme> is this you? 09:04 < delinquentme> 3000? 09:04 < delinquentme> kanzure, 09:04 < kanzure> sigh 09:04 < delinquentme> what are we 3waying or something? 09:12 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@129.21.145.143] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:12 < kanzure> nmz787: http://buildlog.net/cnc_laser/laser_calcs.htm 09:13 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:17 < nmz787> basic calculations 09:17 < nmz787> nice to see it GUiized 09:17 < kanzure> and spot size calculation 09:19 < nmz787> so Simon says to try a blu-ray device first, due to the close working distance the lens may foul (i.e. get coated in smoke, or something like that), but said he thinks it will be fine 09:19 < nmz787> he says if it does get messed up, then we can try a harder method 09:20 < nmz787> (which I guess he doesn't want to waste time speculating on) 09:22 < kanzure> bluray isn't going to cut glass 09:22 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:22 < kanzure> 450 mW? 09:23 < Urchin> ls 09:23 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:23 < Urchin> away 09:23 < Urchin> hi 09:23 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:26 < nmz787> kanzure: the 12X bluray drives have a 700mW 405nm diode 09:27 < kanzure> but 700 mW isn't going to cut glass either? 09:27 < nmz787> do we need to cut glass? 09:27 < nmz787> i'm not sure CO2 can do that 09:28 < kanzure> delinquentme: office of technology commercialization. look it up.. 09:29 < delinquentme> The OTD team is an agile group of experienced professionals with diversified foundation in science, business development, intellectual property and contract law. 09:29 < delinquentme> sho nuff 09:30 < nmz787> epilog says their co2 laser etches glass, doesn't mention using some special chemical or anythin 09:30 < kanzure> haha wow look at the google results 09:30 < kanzure> https://www.google.com/search?q=office+of+technology+commercialization 09:30 < nmz787> also doesn't mention power rating 09:30 < kanzure> each university. same departmet name. 09:30 < kanzure> *department 09:32 < nmz787> wiki only mentions glass cutting with a laser by crack propagation 09:33 < kanzure> huh. 09:36 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@129.21.145.143] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:42 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43 < delinquentme> kanzure, ima put in a text file 09:46 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:50 < kanzure> delinquentme: a text file sounds fine to me.. 09:51 < delinquentme> yeah im putting off refactoring till all are done though 09:52 < delinquentme> maybe a little here or there to get them to fit IDK 10:03 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@safekick-americas-2.consolidated.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:22 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.184.141] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:23 -!- azonenberg [~azonenber@2001:470:888b:2:206:70ff:fe01:46] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:33 -!- azonenberg [~azonenber@2001:470:888b:2:206:70ff:fe01:46] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:43 < delinquentme> kanzure, stop messing around w the readme 10:43 < delinquentme> NO seriously i wont touch it anymore 10:46 < kanzure> i haven't touched it in like 12 hours 10:46 < kanzure> you got the wrong guy i'm innocent 10:47 -!- strages_work [~qwebirc@24.96.165.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:48 < delinquentme> haha its all up there and i fucked w it a bit 10:48 < delinquentme> doing umm... typography things with it 10:48 < kanzure> SLFe ? 10:49 -!- strages_work [~qwebirc@dev.throwthemind.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:50 < delinquentme> hahah i was a little worried about that its suposed to be a merger like this: F| 10:50 < delinquentme> so the F and the | make an A 10:50 < delinquentme> and then motion trails to make it sufficiently obscure 10:50 < delinquentme> you know like the readme from phrozen crew 10:50 < kanzure> i don't even know what the A is 10:51 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@129.21.144.153] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:52 < delinquentme> well the F and the A are combined 10:53 < delinquentme> the F stands alone but with the bar / shwoosies added 10:53 < delinquentme> it stands as an A 10:53 < delinquentme> LOLOL dont worry about it 10:53 < delinquentme> if its awful u can remove it 10:53 < kanzure> science liberation front a... 10:53 < delinquentme> ohh arsenal? 10:53 < delinquentme> wasnt that u? 10:53 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@129.21.144.153] has quit [Client Quit] 10:53 < kanzure> why arsenal? 10:53 < kanzure> nope 10:54 < delinquentme> oh thats the name of the repo 10:54 < kanzure> hmm 10:54 < delinquentme> ill simplfy later 10:54 < delinquentme> it might "read" a little easier 10:55 < kanzure> maybe it shouldbe renamed to libyan's revolutionary science liberation front rage against the publisher (after SURFRAW) 10:55 < delinquentme> lolol what wait ... googles 10:56 < delinquentme> LOL this is assanges project? 10:56 < delinquentme> Oh Baybee 10:56 < delinquentme> I need some 10:56 < delinquentme> Deep Linking 10:56 < delinquentme> Let us go 10:56 < delinquentme> Surfin' in the raw! 10:56 < delinquentme> ROFL 10:56 < delinquentme> i'd be down for that 10:56 < delinquentme> giving assange a cameo 11:13 < delinquentme> http://www.liebertpub.com/overview/disruptive-science-and-technology/594/ 11:14 < delinquentme> KANZ 11:14 < kanzure> what? 11:15 < delinquentme> i know you've got NDAs around 11:15 < delinquentme> non disclosue agreement 11:18 < kanzure> "Editor Aubrey D.N.J. de Grey" 11:20 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:22 < delinquentme> whut? 11:26 < kanzure> aubrey is the editor of that journal you linked to 11:27 < delinquentme> wtffff 11:28 < delinquentme> editor in chief 11:28 < delinquentme> executive editor 11:28 < delinquentme> ummmm 11:28 < delinquentme> i like titles. 11:36 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:36 < kanzure> delinquentme: Supreme Editor for Life 11:36 < kanzure> Eternal Glorious Editor 11:37 < Mariu> :p 11:37 < delinquentme> "exhaulted" 11:37 < delinquentme> "on high" 11:38 < delinquentme> " I put the jesus in journals" 11:40 < delinquentme> after the burial 11:40 < delinquentme> damn they're fucking good w the poly 11:41 < delinquentme> Just brewed some McStrongAssCoffee 11:41 < delinquentme> I'd invite you over Mariu but im unsure if you're a killer cyborg 11:42 < delinquentme> so its been claimed that theres tons of overlap between metal and classical 11:43 < delinquentme> and I love when I head it bc its like "holy shit thats pedal-point" and its gnast 11:46 < Mariu> lol delinquentme 11:46 < Mariu> I don't like coffee :o 11:47 < Mariu> and they cyborg idea is pretty cool 11:47 < Mariu> except killer 11:47 < Mariu> *the 11:47 < delinquentme> you're the only tea drinking cyborg i know 11:47 < delinquentme> lol 11:47 < Mariu> LOL 11:47 < Mariu> yeah, I'm down with tea 11:52 < delinquentme> DEAL 11:54 < Mariu> xD 12:19 -!- strages_work [~qwebirc@dev.throwthemind.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:23 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:24 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:30 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:31 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-101-208-182.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:33 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-101-208-182.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:37 < kanzure> delinquentme: your general level of awesome is definitely exceeding 9000 12:37 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:37 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:38 < Mariu> lol 12:39 < delinquentme> =] 12:40 < delinquentme> a few of those were skipped btu for the most part theres a serious ammoutn of code there 12:48 < kanzure> delinquentme: gotta code to the right music for full power.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8dikRgmTAM 12:49 < delinquentme> haha i can dig 13:00 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:01 -!- amphetamine_ [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:01 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:01 -!- amphetamine_ [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Client Quit] 13:05 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-18-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:09 < delinquentme> kanzure, 13:10 < delinquentme> loi/edfp , loi/edd , loi/easddd 13:10 < kanzure> ? 13:10 < delinquentme> how would you validate a format like that 13:10 < kanzure> mystring[0,4] == "loi/" 13:10 < delinquentme> i want something more solid than "loi/edfp".split('/').count ==2 13:11 < kanzure> mystring.include? "loi/" 13:12 < delinquentme> the loi will work 13:12 < kanzure> mystring[0,3] == "loi/" && mystring.length > 3 13:12 < delinquentme> any idea offhand which is faster .. a split operation or the string[0..5] 13:12 < kanzure> i meant 0,3 not 0,4 13:12 < _Sketch_> http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/04/12/light-table---a-new-ide-concept/ 13:13 < kanzure> ohhh fluidigm 13:13 < kanzure> i thought it was fluidagem 13:13 < _Sketch_> Shows code executing with arbitrary values, and documentation, alongside your code. 13:13 < kanzure> but it's more like.. paradigm 13:14 -!- strages_work [~qwebirc@dev.throwthemind.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:16 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-18-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:16 < delinquentme> _Sketch_, i like it 13:33 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-18-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:40 < delinquentme> kanzure, one of the first things we need to address is that im getting a number of false negatives for the checking 13:40 < delinquentme> specifically the index 2008..2012 checking in skraper_addons.rb 13:41 < kanzure> describe the problem more 13:43 < delinquentme> it searches the page given as the index page 13:44 < delinquentme> and the presumption I based it off of was that if it was an index page ... that somewhere on the page you'd be able to locate the strings 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 13:44 < delinquentme> but some journals were only started last year .. so they'd only have 20112 13:45 < delinquentme> basically "how do we check that this is the page for this journal which lists all the back issues" 13:45 < delinquentme> what i refer to as the journal "index" 13:48 < kanzure> uhh 13:48 < kanzure> why not just look yourself? 13:50 < kanzure> for instance, certain sites will have a certain url structure for their journal backissue index 13:50 < kanzure> or you can find the journal backissue from a certain link 13:50 < kanzure> *from a certain link on a previous page 13:50 < delinquentme> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuC6q9kbryw&feature=context&context=G2477c15RVAAAAAAAAAA 13:50 < delinquentme> cute! 13:50 < delinquentme> im trying to minimize the human factor in it :D 13:52 -!- kommienzuspadt [~admin@68-185-116-75.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:52 < kanzure> hi kommienzuspadt 13:52 < kommienzuspadt> sup 13:52 < kanzure> who are you? 13:52 < kommienzuspadt> I got invited into here by uhh 13:52 < kommienzuspadt> genisteel 13:52 < kommienzuspadt> he's a SA goon 13:52 < kommienzuspadt> that linked me to this place 13:52 < kommienzuspadt> im a biologist 13:52 < kommienzuspadt> molecular/cell 13:52 < kommienzuspadt> i work in biomed 13:52 < kanzure> commercial? 13:52 < kommienzuspadt> nah public research 13:52 < kommienzuspadt> well publically funded 13:53 < kommienzuspadt> large university etc 13:53 < kanzure> welcome i guess 13:53 < kommienzuspadt> i heard something about transfecting duckweed? 13:53 < kommienzuspadt> w/ plasmids?? 13:53 < kanzure> that's diginet's fault 13:53 < kanzure> diginet: ping 13:53 < kommienzuspadt> i want to know more about his procedure because i am skeptical 13:53 < kommienzuspadt> i know 0 about transfecting plants 13:53 < kommienzuspadt> only cell cultures 13:54 < kanzure> agrobacterium is my method of choice but he seems to want to do something else 13:54 < kommienzuspadt> yeah i mean i dunno how you really transfect non-bacterial vector organisms 13:54 < kommienzuspadt> I mean i know you can transfect mammalian cell culures with AAV 13:54 < kanzure> in non-plant non-bacterial organisms you can do microinjection and electroporation and gene guns 13:55 < kommienzuspadt> yeah but not w/ plasmids 13:55 < kommienzuspadt> plasmids are bacterial only 13:55 < kommienzuspadt> i've used retroviruses to transfect mammalian cell line sbefore 13:55 < kommienzuspadt> but with limited success 13:56 < kommienzuspadt> its pretty hard to engineer a properly working mammalian cell line 13:56 < kommienzuspadt> well, with a mutation of your choice, that is 13:58 < delinquentme> kommienzuspadt, tranfect non-bacterial vectors? 13:58 < delinquentme> the cell gun! 13:58 < kommienzuspadt> i've never used one. have you? 13:58 < delinquentme> apparently its a rigged airsoft 13:58 < delinquentme> *shrug* 13:58 < kommienzuspadt> I always thought those were pie in the sky one just one-off prototype type stuff 13:59 < kommienzuspadt> pretty much every lab i've worked with has used viruses to do their genetic engineering in mammalian cells 13:59 < delinquentme> umm so you load up the vectors onto gold of some mass 13:59 < delinquentme> and shot gun them into a number of cells 13:59 < kanzure> kommienzuspadt: btw we're not at peak biology at the moment so give it a few minutes to pick up in the channel. 13:59 < kommienzuspadt> K 14:00 < kommienzuspadt> delinquentme: I know how the principle works 14:00 < delinquentme> are you summoning people kanz 14:00 < kommienzuspadt> but does it actually see common use 14:00 < kanzure> delinquentme: no 14:07 < diginet> WHAT ABOUT ME!?!?! 14:08 < diginet> oh hi kommienzuspadt 14:08 < kommienzuspadt> sup 14:08 < kommienzuspadt> tell me about this thing with duckweed? 14:08 < kommienzuspadt> how do you transfect a plant? 14:08 < kanzure> http://protocol-online.org/ 14:08 < diginet> I haven't done it yet, I'm planning on trying to create transplasmonic duckweed with biolistics 14:08 < kanzure> also: 14:08 < kanzure> we have an alternative version of protocol-online.org being created 14:08 < kanzure> but that guy is offline at the moment 14:09 < delinquentme> ohhh sweet thats the technical name for it 14:09 < diginet> biolistics? 14:09 < diginet> yeah I think so 14:09 < delinquentme> yeah 14:09 < kommienzuspadt> wait wait 14:09 < diginet> it's kind of silly 14:09 < delinquentme> "gene gun" 14:09 < diginet> ? 14:09 < kommienzuspadt> biolistics? 14:09 < kommienzuspadt> ahh 14:09 < kommienzuspadt> google reveals all 14:09 < delinquentme> https://www.google.com/search?ix=sea&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=biolistics 14:09 < delinquentme> =] 14:09 < diginet> gene guns, you coat tiny metal particles with DNA, shoot it in 14:09 < kommienzuspadt> yeah so, im still pretty new in biomed 14:09 < diginet> are you a PhD? 14:09 < kommienzuspadt> Student 14:10 < diginet> PhD student? or undergrad student? 14:10 < kommienzuspadt> right now i work in a lab that is heavy in cell motility 14:10 < kommienzuspadt> BS/MS combo 14:10 < diginet> sweet 14:10 < diginet> well, welcome 14:10 < kommienzuspadt> danke 14:10 < kommienzuspadt> so i've done lots of bacterial transfection 14:10 < kommienzuspadt> pretty simple 14:10 < diginet> yep 14:10 < diginet> plant transfection isn't so much 14:10 < kommienzuspadt> and Im familiar with CaPO4 DNA transfection 14:11 < kommienzuspadt> in mammalian cells 14:11 < kommienzuspadt> and i know that a sister lab to the one I used to work for out west 14:11 < kommienzuspadt> used AAV to introduce specific genes into their HEK293 cells 14:11 < diginet> and even worse, I'm trying to transfect the chroloplast genome, instead of the nuclear genome ("plastome") 14:11 < kommienzuspadt> but I know nothing about gene guns... 14:11 < kommienzuspadt> Weird 14:11 < kommienzuspadt> yeah 14:11 < kommienzuspadt> so tell me about it 14:11 < kommienzuspadt> b/c i havent thought about plants since like intro bio 14:11 < diginet> me either, I'm trying to tackle a DIY gene gun 14:12 < kommienzuspadt> that might be quite a tall order... 14:12 < _F7_> I can help with gene gun DIY 14:12 < diginet> first a caveat: I'm just an undergrad, and not even a bio major, my "specialty" is physics, this is a hobby for me, but a more accessible one than building a particle accelerator 14:12 < kommienzuspadt> haha 14:12 < kommienzuspadt> certainly true 14:12 < diginet> _F7_, you're the same as F71 one right? and yeah, thanks :) 14:12 < _F7_> Yep, also, no problem. 14:13 < kommienzuspadt> so 14:13 < _F7_> On the easy end, I've got an old BB gun I can saw off 14:13 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@81.61.34.232.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:13 < _F7_> but that's probably crap 14:13 < kommienzuspadt> how 14:13 < kommienzuspadt> like 14:13 < kommienzuspadt> i don't even know where to begin I guess. How are you going to get it to work? 14:13 < diginet> cool, well, anyway altering the chroloplast genome isn't really harder than the nuclear genome, the hard part is getting all the chrloroplasts to have the same modified DNA 14:13 < diginet> just read research 14:13 < diginet> the priciple of operation is rather simple 14:13 < kommienzuspadt> like so first of all 14:13 < diginet> they original built it with a gun barrel (literally) 14:13 < _F7_> can the chloroplast take vaccuum? 14:13 < kommienzuspadt> where aer you getting your vector 14:14 < _F7_> oh wait 14:14 < diginet> I'm going to have to make it 14:14 < kommienzuspadt> out of...? 14:14 < _F7_> why aren't you transforming like, pollen? 14:14 < kommienzuspadt> will it be plasmid? SS DNA? 14:14 < diginet> just pay to have it sequenced 14:14 < kommienzuspadt> no but I mean, you need a physical construct to hold your mutant of interest 14:14 < diginet> oh 14:14 < kommienzuspadt> like to transfect e. coli you have circular plasmid DNA 14:14 < diginet> biolistics uses no vector 14:14 < _F7_> oh wait, duckweed is a budding plant isn't it 14:14 < diginet> _F7_, yeah exactly 14:14 < diginet> which is the good thing about it 14:15 < diginet> it can flower, but the mechanism is poorly understood, and why bother with that anyway 14:15 < diginet> you just shoot a little particle coated with DNA into the cell 14:15 < diginet> and it transforms it via homologous transformation 14:16 < diginet> generally use E.Coli to clone the DNA though 14:16 < kommienzuspadt> Yeah e. coli is wicked east 14:16 < kommienzuspadt> easy 14:16 < diginet> anyhow, the reason for transforming the plastids are that they offer like 100-fold increases in expression over the nuclear genome 14:17 < diginet> the general procedure for homologizing the plastomes though is to make the cell go through dedifferentation on a lot of cells (which causes the plastid number to decrease) and then reverse, untill all your plastids are the one you want 14:18 < diginet> you just have to use an antibiotic resistance marker, and select very stringently for it, by continually increasing hte concentration 14:18 < diginet> (you can roughly calculate the homology by how much of the antibiotic the cell can survive) 14:18 < kommienzuspadt> how do you cause the plant t odedifferentiate? 14:19 < kommienzuspadt> using transcription factors? 14:19 < kommienzuspadt> like Sox etc 14:19 < kanzure> i don't think sox is a thing in plants? 14:19 < kommienzuspadt> and how d oyou select for the ones you want 14:19 < kommienzuspadt> Yeah I mean, its homolog 14:19 < kommienzuspadt> or whatever, again, i know less about plants than Martha Stewart probably 14:19 < diginet> kommienzuspadt, I don't rememeber exactly, but there definitely is a way 14:19 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:19 < kommienzuspadt> you'll also have to select for the cells that are succesfully transfected 14:20 < diginet> yeah 14:20 < diginet> but anyway, one that's the case, hooray, because duckweed is very easy to grow 14:21 < diginet> I calculated, I could roughly express 1kg of protein a day, assuming average expression rates, and optimal growth just on the area I have to work with 14:21 < yashgaroth> same kommienzuspadt as on SA? 14:21 < kommienzuspadt> Yessir 14:21 < yashgaroth> aha 14:21 < kanzure> in general please send me more goons and less redditors kthx 14:21 < kommienzuspadt> diginet: how are you going to induce expression 14:21 < delinquentme> what is SA? 14:21 < kommienzuspadt> again I know nothing about plants 14:21 < kanzure> it's something awful 14:22 < kommienzuspadt> I know in e. coli you need the proper media 14:22 < kommienzuspadt> and usually you induce it with uh 14:22 < kommienzuspadt> Fuck 14:22 < yashgaroth> (specifically, the somethingawful forums) 14:22 < kommienzuspadt> four letter acronym 14:22 < kommienzuspadt> chemical 14:22 < kommienzuspadt> fuck 14:22 < kommienzuspadt> DPTG? 14:22 < yashgaroth> IPTG 14:22 < Mariu> GoonSwarm 14:22 < kommienzuspadt> thank you 14:22 < diginet> kommienzuspadt, you just grow the duckweed plant 14:22 < diginet> nothing to it 14:22 < kommienzuspadt> yeah but how can you be sure that specific gene is being expressed? 14:22 < diginet> use a good promotor (cauliflower mosaic virus) 14:23 < kommienzuspadt> ok 14:23 < kommienzuspadt> thats what i was wondering 14:23 < diginet> *promoter 14:23 < kommienzuspadt> is that an exogenous promotor? 14:23 < kommienzuspadt> the cauliflower virus will reliably put it where you want it on your plastome? 14:23 < diginet> yes 14:23 < kommienzuspadt> how do you know which of your plants will be successfully transduced with the virus? 14:23 < diginet> use a selective marker 14:24 < diginet> no, I'm not using a virus 14:24 < diginet> I'm just using the promoter from one 14:24 < diginet> I use homologous transformation to get the the plastome to take it in 14:24 < diginet> which admitteddly, isn't a deterministic process, but doesn't require a vector, so its easier 14:25 < kommienzuspadt> yeah, i mean i guess that's my point- what is the proess for selecting for properly transfected cells 14:25 < kommienzuspadt> versus ones that are not? 14:25 < diginet> antiobiotic resistance 14:25 < kommienzuspadt> ok, just like bugs 14:25 < diginet> yep 14:25 < diginet> you transfect callus culture cells (which are like plant stem cells) 14:26 < diginet> brb, going to read some stuff 14:28 < kommienzuspadt> k 14:30 < delinquentme> kanzure, 14:30 < delinquentme> 4 words 14:30 < kanzure> 4 of them? 14:30 < delinquentme> hand coded russian HTML 14:30 < delinquentme> yes. 14:30 < kanzure> nice 14:30 < delinquentme> it happens 14:30 < kanzure> oh we should probably look up foreign language academic publishers 14:31 < delinquentme> we should talk about what the goals are 14:31 < kanzure> does the README make sense 14:32 < delinquentme> like im venturing a guess but the majority of the good research will be in mandarin, english, russian, french, spanish maybe german 14:32 < delinquentme> idk 14:32 < delinquentme> yeah the readme is good 14:32 < kanzure> ok someone will be doing the mongodb integration tonight 14:33 < kanzure> (not me) 14:33 < yashgaroth> most good research gets published in english, or at least also-published 14:33 < kanzure> what about all the chinese publishers 14:33 < kanzure> who publishes the chinese research anyway? 14:34 < kanzure> yashgaroth: we need help assembling a complete list of academic publishers 14:34 < kanzure> delinquentme: can you patebin the list? 14:34 < kanzure> pastebin 14:34 < delinquentme> what list 14:34 < kanzure> of publishers 14:34 < kanzure> that we are aiming for. 14:34 < yashgaroth> make sure you get bentham, those guys are terrible at open access 14:35 < kanzure> yashgaroth: we have 79+ at the moment 14:35 < yashgaroth> oh my 14:35 < kanzure> mess with the best, die like the rest..... or something 14:35 < delinquentme> https://github.com/meawoppl/SLFA/blob/master/scrapers/ruby/journals_complete_list.txt 14:35 < delinquentme> thatll be the most up to date 14:35 < delinquentme> should prob be relocated too 14:35 < kanzure> ok let me pastebin that 14:36 < yashgaroth> 404? 14:36 < delinquentme> yashgaroth, can you program ruby 14:36 < kanzure> http://pastebin.com/01EWDJt6 14:36 < yashgaroth> hahahahaha no 14:36 < kanzure> wait this is only 71? 14:36 < kanzure> is this the list of the ones we've done, or the list of ones we haven't done 14:36 < kanzure> oh, complete 14:36 < kanzure> blah 14:36 < kanzure> yashgaroth: can you figure out what publishers we're missing? 14:37 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@safekick-americas-2.consolidated.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:37 < yashgaroth> you've got all the big ones that I can remember 14:37 < kanzure> what about russian/chinese publishers 14:38 < yashgaroth> never read any that I can recall 14:44 < yashgaroth> oh add PNAS 14:57 -!- Guanny [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:03 < Guanny> Sup 15:06 < kanzure> hello Guanny 15:07 < kanzure> are you eric zhang 15:08 -!- Guanny [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:09 -!- Guanny [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:13 < diginet> Elsevier is scum, seriously someone needs to stop them 15:15 < Guanny> Yes fuck the fudge packing counts 15:16 < Guanny> Cunts * 15:16 < katsmeow-afk> 15:17 < diginet> I think the solution is simple: a huge percentage of research is funded by public money. In essence, we, the taxpayers, are paying for it. Any research funded by public money should be legally required to be open access. 15:17 < kanzure> preaching to the choir.. 15:17 < diginet> Oh I know 15:17 < Guanny> I just wanted to get odds when off campus but they make it impossible short of using a vpn 15:17 < diginet> it just really, ugh 15:17 < diginet> makes me sick 15:18 < diginet> hasn't harvard and MIT enacted open access only policies? 15:18 < Guanny> y'all want odds? I'll hook u up 15:18 < kanzure> Guanny: we are the science liberation front 15:18 < kanzure> Guanny: so far we have 80+ scrapers and are aiming for a 100% copy of science 15:19 < diginet> kanzure, how do you avoid detection? I was shutdown through my access just for legitimate downloading because I went "over the limit?" 15:19 < kanzure> by going below the limits 15:19 < diginet> but isn't that painfully slow? 15:19 < kanzure> also, http://google.com/search?q=ezproxy+inurl:edu 15:19 < katsmeow-afk> timing, tor, multiple proxies 15:19 < kanzure> no not tor really 15:20 < kanzure> also: all those fart apps taht you download? 15:20 < kanzure> those have http proxies that phone home 15:20 < diginet> ? 15:20 < katsmeow-afk> tor doesn't want you to be able to change exit nodes, but you can 15:20 < kanzure> diginet: you just need an exit proxy inside a university campus 15:20 < diginet> AHHHHHH 15:20 < diginet> okay, so you guys have friends who set up proxies on Uni networks? 15:20 < kanzure> no 15:20 < katsmeow-afk> no 15:20 < kanzure> the proxies are already installed 15:20 < kanzure> look at ezproxy 15:21 < kanzure> every college campus has this 15:21 < diginet> don't you need specific accounts 15:21 < kanzure> yes, look it up- people post usernames/passwords 15:21 < diginet> where? 15:21 < kanzure> all sorts of places 15:21 < kanzure> http://passworduid.blogspot.com/ 15:21 < Guanny> Sweet for scraping  15:22 < diginet> god damn, when you let loose the the floodgates, those publishers will be SCREWED 15:22 < kanzure> diginet: yes 15:22 < kanzure> but only if you do it all at once 15:22 < diginet> indeed 15:22 < delinquentme> thats beautiful http://passworduid.blogspot.com/ 15:23 < kanzure> delinquentme: that's an old one 15:23 < kanzure> use google.cn 15:23 < delinquentme> lol nice 15:23 < delinquentme> Oh so i was musing 15:23 < delinquentme> if you've got shit centere in china 15:23 < delinquentme> that might as well be copyleft insurance right? 15:24 < delinquentme> like they straight up told BMW that the X5 wasn't ripped off 15:24 < kanzure> yeah, china might be interested in acquiring this data set 15:25 < delinquentme> " yea we exited " 15:26 < delinquentme> "who bought it?" 15:26 < delinquentme> "China" 15:27 < delinquentme> kanzure, do you program objective c? 15:27 < kanzure> yes 15:27 < delinquentme> isnt a web app part of the stuff you're working on 15:27 < delinquentme> java? 15:27 < kanzure> yes i also do java (: 15:27 < kanzure> i meant to type :( 15:28 < kanzure> delinquentme: elsevier makes something like $800 million/year 15:28 < delinquentme> so the applications we need 15:28 < delinquentme> absolutely minimal 15:28 < kanzure> so china could never afford to pay all the publishers- it would add up to many billions of dollars 15:29 < kanzure> they could pay billions but.. they wouldn't 15:29 < delinquentme> and run in the background on phones 15:29 < kanzure> yeah 15:29 < kanzure> fart apps or something 15:29 < delinquentme> lol 15:29 < kanzure> so that when the app is checked, the sysadmin figures it's benign 15:29 < delinquentme> ohhh 15:29 < delinquentme> im saying get one of the reddit guys to read over the code and issue a statement that its safe 15:30 < delinquentme> and just post that shit to some colleges 15:30 < kanzure> no you don't need anyone to read it 15:30 < delinquentme> to solved the "do we trust these guys to give phone access " 15:30 < kanzure> i just mean a fart app so that if someone looks at the phone, it's not like "I AM RAPING KITTENS RIGHT NOW" 15:31 < delinquentme> i thought the sys admin comment meant as far as the portion that hits the schools servers 15:31 < kanzure> nothing hits the schools servers.. their network might be used if the student happens to be on campus 15:31 < delinquentme> correct me if im wrong but most college students are sufficiently educated that they'd freely get behind this if we let them know whats happening 15:31 < delinquentme> especially those in a science program 15:31 < kanzure> yep 15:31 < kanzure> but you still have to make the app seem benign so if someone looks at the app trying to blame the student.. 15:32 < delinquentme> i also just realized that we'll be using their dataplan bandwidth 15:32 < kanzure> no 15:32 < kanzure> it's over wifi 15:33 < kanzure> because you need the IP address from inside the school 15:33 < kanzure> not their att/verizon ip address 15:33 < delinquentme> ooc cant the app just be run in the background as something without an interface? 15:33 < delinquentme> PS 15:33 < delinquentme> getting app approval from apple will b e impossible 15:35 < kanzure> nope.. they will approve fart apps 15:35 < kanzure> or variations on fart apps 15:36 < yashgaroth> don't they, like, check the source code? 15:36 < kanzure> no 15:36 < yashgaroth> oh 15:36 < kanzure> you give them a compiled binary 15:36 < kanzure> and they run the app and check off on guidelines 15:37 < delinquentme> i cant help but think its not that simple 15:37 < delinquentme> seriously 15:37 < kanzure> that's how my apps got into the store before. 15:37 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:37 < kanzure> *shrug* ymmv 15:37 < delinquentme> your apps also wern't silently transfering the shit we 15:37 < delinquentme> 're talking 15:37 < kanzure> actually, yes they were 15:38 < kanzure> they were transferring analytics and videos and keylogging sometimes 15:38 < delinquentme> damn 15:38 < kanzure> it's not so bad 15:38 < kanzure> and on android you can just distribute your .apk 15:38 < delinquentme> theres no way that google doesnt have my bank information 15:39 < kanzure> well, obviously we would never do this ourselves 15:39 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:42 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.184.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53 < charlieschwabach> I think you could do a chrome app/extension that people could just install and leave open in computer labs 15:54 < kanzure> yep.. i am interested in figuring out how to minimally abuse that 15:55 < charlieschwabach> yeah, I am trying to think of a way to get around cross origin w/ js, but I don't think you can 15:55 < charlieschwabach> if they could just have it open in a tab that would be ideal 15:55 < kanzure> you can just launch the browser with cross-origin detection disabled :P 15:56 < kanzure> at least on chrome it's something like --allow-cross-origin or something dumb 15:58 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:58 < kanzure> nmz787: yo 15:58 < nmz787> yo 15:58 < kanzure> we've decided to whore out science to china 15:58 < charlieschwabach> I didn't know that.. using a terminal will scare some % of people away which sucks, but still probably worth exploring 15:58 < kanzure> and sell it to the chinese government for $600 million 15:59 < charlieschwabach> especially if it is something people can run from dorms / just leave on overnight 15:59 < kanzure> i think phones are way more common 15:59 < nmz787> hmm, interesting... we can make back some of the national deficit 15:59 < kanzure> nmz787: no i mean, *us* personally 16:00 < kanzure> da biggest heist 16:00 < charlieschwabach> phones probably avoid detection by schools better too 16:00 < kanzure> everyone in college has a smartphone 16:00 < charlieschwabach> an app dowloading/uploading all of the time will kill battery 16:00 < kanzure> yes, that's true 16:00 -!- Stieru_Ridir [~Steel@cpe-67-246-36-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00 < charlieschwabach> which could annoy people 16:00 < kanzure> there would deinitely be a rate limit 16:01 -!- Stee| [~Steel@cpe-67-246-36-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:01 < kanzure> because if you full throttle everything, the publishers will notice 16:01 < kanzure> and the network admins will notice 16:01 < kanzure> and the batteries will notice.. 16:01 < nmz787> kanzure: remember that kurt guy, he's in china and was talking about grant, i mean whore, money 16:01 < charlieschwabach> haha yep 16:01 < kanzure> nmz787: toothpaste? 16:01 < kanzure> i mean, fishpaste? 16:01 < nmz787> ya 16:01 < nmz787> lol 16:01 < kanzure> i mean, something.. 16:01 < nmz787> good old pastywhite 16:04 < delinquentme> cross origin? 16:04 < delinquentme> XSS? 16:04 < kanzure> yeah it gets in the way 16:04 < kanzure> of a lot of app developmet 16:04 < delinquentme> phones are more common 16:04 < kanzure> *development 16:05 < delinquentme> but they're also not as close to the source as browser extensions 16:05 -!- fenn_ [~fenn@131.252.130.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:05 < kanzure> delinquentme: they have browsers just like everything else 16:05 < kanzure> also, you can do phonegap apps 16:05 < kanzure> and write your app in javascript 16:05 -!- nuba_ [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:05 < kanzure> yashgaroth: you around? 16:05 < yashgaroth> well enough 16:06 < kanzure> someone might be showing up to bug you for a myostatin project update 16:06 -!- CIA-132 [~CIA@cia.atheme.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:06 < yashgaroth> fiiine 16:07 < delinquentme> hot website http://www.maik.ru/ 16:10 -!- SolG [Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:10 -!- phill [c0cfeac2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.207.234.194] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:10 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:10 < kanzure> phill: welcome to a little transhumanist piece of heaven 16:11 < kanzure> ... sort of 16:11 < phill> okay. 16:12 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/myostatin/ 16:12 < kanzure> yashgaroth: i should dump your proposal in there 16:12 < yashgaroth> go for it 16:12 < kanzure> do you have a recent version 16:12 < yashgaroth> I've been adding more exposition based on comments, but it's not as readable as the original yet 16:14 < kanzure> dis? https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/diybio/EbPPQaeKRg0 16:14 < yashgaroth> ya 16:14 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/myostatin/yashgaroth-proposal.txt 16:15 < phill> well, I ought to read that first. 16:16 < phill> on general principles, I'd rather destroy myostatin RNA transcripts than attack the protein after it's already been built 16:16 < phill> I'd rather avoid an approach that requires a lot of continual churning anabolism & catabolism 16:16 < phill> like eg increasing IGF 16:16 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: ziyadb, _sol_, CIA-92, fenn 16:17 < yashgaroth> I've thought about adding an RNAi transcript into an intron with the follistatin mRNA 16:17 -!- ziyadb [u4806@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lmgtchxrruxbbzza] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:17 < phill> if you just have an RNAi transcript, you should get more copies into cells; you can use a very small plasmid 16:18 < yashgaroth> maybe a kilobase shorter 16:18 < yashgaroth> all the regulatory and origin stuff is most of the bulk either way 16:19 < yashgaroth> also, intracellular regulation doesn't extend to nearby non-transfected fibers, which may be an issue 16:19 < phill> another concern is, whatever method you're using to get dna into cells, how do you avoid some cells getting no copies while other cells get a lethally high number of copies? 16:19 < phill> (probably less of an issue with muscle than with other tissue) 16:19 < yashgaroth> you mean lethality from the transfection or the gene product? 16:20 < phill> I'm more worried about over-using the siRNA machinery. 16:20 < phill> adding hairpins to a cell reduces its ability to express its native miRNA 16:21 < phill> apparently they are already near max capacity 16:21 < yashgaroth> wouldn't surprise me 16:22 < yashgaroth> no one's really looked into siRNA network knockdown as a whole, especially in muscle 16:22 < yashgaroth> that's why I like gene products 16:24 < phill> are you planning on using a promoter not active in heart cells? 16:24 < phill> I'm worried about heart muscle. 16:24 < yashgaroth> no, I don't expect the plasmid to reach the heart in any significant fashion 16:24 < phill> why is that? 16:24 < yashgaroth> without direct electroporation, the efficiency is rather low 16:24 < yashgaroth> so almost all of it should be localized to the injection/electroporation site 16:24 < nmz787> NERD POWER! 16:24 < nmz787> :D 16:24 < phill> supposedly, muscle cells are capable of taking up naked DNA 16:24 < phill> people disagree about that 16:24 < yashgaroth> like, way more than other cells? 16:25 < phill> but in mice at least some people just inject naked DNA into the bloodstream. yes, a lot more. but there's some evidence this happens because they're using disease models, and diseased muscle cells can take up dna more easily. 16:26 < phill> also, they use high-pressure injection, which sometimes kills the mouse. 16:26 < kanzure> ah yes renal vein naked dna injection 16:26 < nmz787> how do you use HP injection? 16:26 < yashgaroth> naked DNA uptake is a lot higher in mice, and yes the hydrodynamic injection would probably have a lot more off-target uptake 16:26 < yashgaroth> that's why I prefer electrotransfer 16:26 < nmz787> seems like you'd need to counter the pressure, by placing the animal under more atmospheres 16:27 < yashgaroth> internal and external pressure aren't linked 16:27 < phill> interesting idea, nmz787 16:27 < phill> no? 16:27 < phill> it works for scuba divers 16:27 < yashgaroth> no, that's why you can survive in a vacuum for a few minutes 16:27 < nmz787> you're saying if I pump up my blood vessels, shit wont pop open? 16:27 < yashgaroth> the lethality is mostly from popping cells 16:27 < phill> but, if it did work, then the high pressure injection would give no advantage. 16:28 < yashgaroth> that too 16:28 < nmz787> i thought vacuum survival is because your bones are blood vessels that arent compressible/expandable 16:28 < phill> instead of a high pressure injection, put your mouse in a vacuum. :) 16:28 < yashgaroth> it's the same reason a sphere of water in space doesn't immediately explode into individual molecules 16:29 < phill> doesn't it? 16:29 < yashgaroth> nah 16:29 < phill> has anybody even tried that...? 16:29 < yashgaroth> sure, when they expel astronaut urine 16:29 < phill> I would think that would just be surface tension, and it would only hold droplets together 16:29 < yashgaroth> well skin is an effective surface tension 16:30 < phill> also, the urine might freeze rapidly 16:30 < yashgaroth> argh what am I, a physicist? 16:30 < yashgaroth> high-pressure injection is promising for limb injections, I'll admit 16:31 < Vicarious> hi 16:31 < delinquentme> are there any beagleboard / raspberry pi type operations which are commerically working? 16:31 < delinquentme> which have cashola 16:31 < phill> yashgaroth, what do you want a $10k centrifuge for? 16:31 < nmz787> delinquentme: isn't raspPi and bb working 16:32 < yashgaroth> mostly spinning down the bacteria for the plasmid preps 16:32 < yashgaroth> also it needs to be refrigerated 16:32 < delinquentme> raspberrypi isnt commercial and neither is bb 16:32 < delinquentme> I mean they're got massive companies w expense budgets 16:32 < phill> you can stick a centrifuge in a refrigerator 16:32 < nmz787> delinquentme: what do you mean, isn't selling something commerce? 16:32 < phill> do you need more than 25,000 RPM? 16:33 < yashgaroth> maybe 5000g's, rpm's depends on the rotor size 16:33 < phill> I think plasmid preps just need an eppendorf 5415c 16:33 < phill> ebay, $200 16:33 < phill> stick it in the fridge 16:33 < yashgaroth> for minipreps, not gigapreps 16:33 < phill> gigapreps? 16:33 < yashgaroth> 10 milligrams at a time, not 10 micrograms 16:34 < phill> how did you calculate how much final material you need? 16:34 < nmz787> y do you need so much? 16:34 < nmz787> for lossy uptake by humans? 16:34 -!- Guanny [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:34 < yashgaroth> because non-viral transfections are inefficient 16:34 < phill> anyway, bucket refrigerated centrifuge, ebay, $500 16:34 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:34 < nmz787> also are you starting with coli 16:34 < nmz787> ? 16:34 < yashgaroth> yes 16:35 < nmz787> doesn't that need HPLC to get rif of the endo toxs 16:35 < yashgaroth> I figure 2mg/injection, and you're gonna need quite a few to get a noticeable effect 16:35 < yashgaroth> no that's what the triton x-114 is for 16:35 < yashgaroth> hplc is also waaay too low-throughput 16:35 < phill> oh, so when you say electroporation, you mean getting a big electrostim machine with electrodes 16:35 < yashgaroth> basically a gel power supply hooked up to needles 16:35 < phill> or do you mean needles? 16:35 < phill> oh. 16:36 < yashgaroth> surface electroporation works worse the bigger your target 16:36 < kanzure> phill: warning, i think yashgaroth's equipment cost estimates are all wrong :) 16:36 < kanzure> you can build a centrifuge safely for much less than $10k 16:36 < yashgaroth> I try to estimate high in case of cost overruns, but yes with enough ebay-fu you could do it for less 16:37 < phill> I have wondered whether interference stim might be better for electroporation. AFAIK nobody has ever tried it. 16:37 < nmz787> yashgaroth: two years ago on craigslist i saw a new benchtop centrifuge with fridge for <$1k 16:37 < nmz787> i'm not sure you could use falcon tubes or just eppendorfs tho 16:37 < yashgaroth> like, RNAi electroporation? 16:38 < phill> current electroporation techniques are just straightforward voltage. 16:38 < yashgaroth> nmz, most of the work is in 250mL bottles and 50mL tubes 16:38 < phill> but physical therapy electrostim is done by interference between two alternating currents 16:39 < yashgaroth> to trigger muscle contraction, you mean? 16:39 < phill> yes. allows you to get a high-frequency electric field spread out over a large area without burning the flesh near the electrodes. 16:40 < phill> not of as much use in mice. 16:40 < yashgaroth> if it makes pores form, then sure, but you don't necessarily want a large area outside of the injection site 16:40 < phill> how many injections are we talking about? 16:40 < yashgaroth> 'as many as it takes' 16:40 < phill> how many cc's of tissue per injection? 16:40 < yashgaroth> approximately 1 16:40 < phill> bcoz if the answer is 1, you are in for a lot of pain 16:40 < phill> yikes 16:40 < yashgaroth> heh 16:41 < yashgaroth> you can optimize the voltage/current for that to some degree, but yeah 16:41 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:42 < yashgaroth> it'd tend toward the lower end of the effective power spectrum...you don't want to kill the cells you transfect 16:42 < phill> you may be better off with synthol... 16:42 < yashgaroth> steroids are the main competition, true 16:43 < phill> synthol is not a steroid - it's more like plastic 16:43 < yashgaroth> well that's silly 16:43 < phill> looks like muscle mass from the outside 16:43 < yashgaroth> I'm not in this for the bodybuilding aspect 16:43 < phill> so what's your objective? 16:44 < yashgaroth> muscle growth, hopefully with functional gain 16:48 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48 < yashgaroth> bodybuilding's fine, but I don't see the point if you're just inflating the tissue 16:48 -!- amphetamine [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:48 -!- amphetamine is now known as AdrianG 16:50 < phill> if the point is to look good, it doesn't really matter what's underneath 16:51 < phill> either objective is equally valid 16:51 < kanzure> and of course if you want raw strength you would just implant actuators or something 16:51 < kanzure> or wear your non-existant exoskeleton 16:52 < yashgaroth> if the choice was between muscles that have twice the capacity, versus muscles that are twice as big, I'd pick the first option 16:52 < yashgaroth> maybe that's just me :/ 16:53 < nmz787> how long do you think the effect would take? 16:53 < nmz787> and last? 16:53 < nmz787> can i inject this week, and have beach bod next week? 16:53 < phill> no 16:54 < yashgaroth> there's a hard cap on the rate of muscle growth 16:54 < kanzure> i am a little disappointed that nobody here takes steroids 16:54 < kanzure> i should recruit someone from bodybuilding.com's forums 16:54 < nmz787> is it growth or expansion of existing cells' volume? 16:54 < kanzure> or hell maybe there's an appropriate goon.. 16:54 < yashgaroth> increase in both the number and size of fibers, but mostly just size 16:55 < nmz787> so that's not growth in the sense of fibers multiplying 16:55 < nmz787> but still limited you say? 16:56 < yashgaroth> in what sense? 16:56 < kanzure> phill: look for the private message 16:56 < phill> no one knows what the limits would be in humans 16:56 < kanzure> nmz787: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bodybuilding/ 16:56 < phill> but muscle doesn't grow very fast, and you'd get stretch marks if it did 16:56 < kanzure> muscle growth is an interesting research topic 16:56 < yashgaroth> with combined inhibitors in transgenic models, the total increase is about 300% 16:56 < kanzure> "just exercise! it'll grow because.. well just because" 16:57 < kanzure> anyway that link has my paper dump on muscle growth research (not myostatin) 16:57 < kanzure> just normal "exercise a muscle and observe wtf" 16:57 < phill> "limits" is misleading 16:57 < phill> how much risk do you want? 16:58 < kanzure> well take the point at which a human dies 16:58 < phill> doubling your muscle mass would probably lead to an early death 16:58 < kanzure> and back it off just a bit 16:58 < yashgaroth> schwarzenegger seems to be doing okay 16:58 < kanzure> what is he on? his fifth heart? 16:58 < yashgaroth> he has a pre-existing condition! 16:59 < kanzure> bah 16:59 < phill> all I see on google is that he had heart valve surgery in 1997 17:00 < yashgaroth> pretty sure he just has a defective valve from birth or something 17:00 -!- amphetamine [~amphetami@CPEbcaec5a734bc-CM001bd713703a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:00 -!- amphetamine [~amphetami@CPEbcaec5a734bc-CM001bd713703a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:00 -!- amphetamine [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:00 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:00 < kanzure> ah right.. yeah i am probably making up the heart thing 17:00 < phill> I do'nt know effect size in humans, but growth and longevity are two opposed pathways in all multicellular organisms. 17:01 < phill> Enhancing growth leads to early death, across all animals. 17:01 < phill> Statistically speaking. 17:01 < kanzure> no growth also leads to death 17:01 < nmz787> i was talking about limit of growth rate 17:01 < nmz787> not limit of overall growth 17:01 -!- amphetamine [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Client Quit] 17:01 < yashgaroth> a lot of that's also from birth, if you're gonna end up 8 feet tall you're gonna have a bad time for sure 17:02 < nmz787> it would be pretty sweet to be skinny most of the year, save on calories/food, then a week before a hiking/mountaineering/scuba diving... bulk up 17:02 < yashgaroth> food's cheap 17:02 < nmz787> then after the excursion get thin again to save 17:02 < nmz787> meh 17:02 < phill> calories are expensive 17:02 < kanzure> "For just $2/month, you can sponsor nmz787" 17:02 < phill> calories kill 17:03 < kanzure> there was a huge spike in the CR cult in the 80s/90s 17:03 < kanzure> not so much any more 17:03 < kanzure> now it's all paleoCR or something 17:03 < yashgaroth> they're all too weak to type now 17:03 < phill> enhancing your muscle growth is basically doing the opposite of CR 17:03 < yashgaroth> michael rae was a fucking skeleton when I met him 17:04 < nmz787> well 17:04 < nmz787> not necessarily 17:04 < nmz787> you wouldn 17:04 < nmz787> t 17:04 < nmz787> be pounding your liver 17:04 < nmz787> right, it would require protein for sure 17:04 < phill> regardless of what individual CR people do, if you are a mammal, that enhancing growth tends to shorten your lifespan. 17:05 < phill> not because of the effects of tthe growth, but because all the pathways that need to switch on for you to grow, or to sustain muscle mass, also turn off the pathways that extend life, such as DNA repair or apoptosis or stem cell quiescence. 17:05 < yashgaroth> luckily muscle doesn't get cancer 17:06 < kanzure> is that true? 17:06 < nmz787> heart cancer doesnt exist? 17:06 < yashgaroth> it's absurdly rare 17:06 < kanzure> well, i suppose a heart is likely to be one of the more optimized organs 17:06 < yashgaroth> multinucleated cells have difficulty becoming malignant 17:06 < nmz787> well would myostatin inhibition turn on any of those pathways? 17:06 < phill> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Deaths_from_muscle_cancer 17:06 < phill> but, yes, rare 17:06 < kanzure> nmz787: probably as a downstream consequence 17:07 < kanzure> because myostatin inhibitors will cause other pathways to continue to use resources 17:07 < phill> I have to get back to work and get some code running tonight 17:08 < yashgaroth> well, thanks for stopping by 17:09 < kanzure> delinquentme vanished. hmm 17:09 < yashgaroth> also both those wiki deaths were from smooth muscle cancer :D 17:09 < kanzure> jrayhawk: are there any good ORMs on cpan for perl, anything that works well with mongodb? 17:10 < kanzure> wait, is jrayhawk our most senior resident perl monk.. or is there someone else 17:14 < kanzure> nmz787: http://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=1044 17:15 < kanzure> ooh "Objectives designed for high-power Nd:YAG applications" 17:15 < kanzure> oooh "Multiphoton Physiology Objectives with high NA and long working distance designed to work in the 380 - 1100 nm range" 17:16 < kanzure> you know, it would be nice to make our laser cutter have a rotary tool head or something 17:16 < kanzure> where the laser can be rotated out and we could just aim a webcam to use it as a high quality microscope 17:17 < kanzure> by rotary i mean multi-tool like in those giant cnc machining centers for exchanging tool tips 17:18 < kanzure> http://scienceonlinebayarea.org/events/2012/04/soba-data-visualization-and-data-journalism-in-science/ 17:18 < kanzure> http://sobadata.eventbrite.com/ 17:26 < kanzure> http://www.shapeoko.com/ looks like another cnc router 17:27 -!- phill [c0cfeac2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.207.234.194] has quit [] 17:33 -!- skorket [~skorket@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:34 < kanzure> hi skorket 17:34 < skorket> hey kanzure 17:35 -!- b_nicotina [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:35 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36 < b_nicotina> What if they use super cold nitrogen gas to freeze policy? 17:37 < kanzure> policy? 17:37 -!- charlieschwabach [~charliesc@c-24-118-140-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: charlieschwabach] 17:38 < b_nicotina> &one's body 17:43 -!- kommienzuspadt [~admin@68-185-116-75.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Quit: kommienzuspadt] 17:49 < Mariu> hmm 17:50 < Mariu> Alcor ? 17:51 < kanzure> nmz787: helicose 17:53 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:00 < kanzure> p121212 18:01 < kanzure> http://www.p212121.com/ 18:05 < kanzure> http://www.helicosbio.com/ looks like quake is on this 18:06 -!- juul [~juul@171.66.172.204] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:06 < kanzure> juul: hi 18:06 < juul> hiya 18:06 < kanzure> did you get github access? 18:07 < juul> I don't think so 18:07 < kanzure> probably in your inbox 18:07 < juul> didn't get a notification 18:07 < kanzure> ok 18:07 < kanzure> https://github.com/meawoppl/SLFA 18:07 < juul> i get a 404 18:07 < kanzure> ok. fixing.. 18:08 < kanzure> juul: try now 18:09 < kanzure> delinquentme dropped in +78 scrapers today 18:10 < juul> wow 18:19 -!- b_nicotina [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has quit [Quit: Bye] 18:19 -!- b_nicotina [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:22 -!- b_nicotina [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22 -!- nicotina_b [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:38 -!- juul [~juul@171.66.172.204] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:39 < kanzure> "The metadata services pilot followed release of the 2007 “Report on the Future of Bibliographic Control” by the Working Group on the Future of Bibliographic Control, formed by the Library of Congress to address changes in how libraries must do their work in the digital information era. The ability to leverage upstream publisher data effectively was central to the Working Group's recommendations." 18:39 < kanzure> gah.. "bibliographic control" 18:40 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-18-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:42 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:43 < kanzure> delinquentme: https://jobs1-oclc.icims.com/jobs/2097/job?hub=6 18:44 < jrayhawk> re: Perl ORM: I would suggest using one of the Moose ones if you want to foolishly attempt good engineering 18:45 < kanzure> thanks. 18:55 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59 -!- nicotina_b [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has quit [Quit: Bye] 18:59 -!- b_nicotina [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:05 -!- b_nicotina [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has quit [Quit: Bye] 19:05 -!- b_nicotina [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:10 -!- charlieschwabach [~charliesc@c-24-118-140-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:13 -!- b_nicotina [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has quit [Quit: Bye] 19:14 -!- b_nicotina [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:19 -!- Replop [~Gwen@ASte-Genev-Bois-154-1-104-241.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:19 -!- Replop [~Gwen@ASte-Genev-Bois-154-1-104-241.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 19:19 -!- Replop [~Gwen@ASte-Genev-Bois-154-1-104-241.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:30 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:05 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:11 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:19 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:19 < kanzure> delinquentme: ok i'm about ready to crack some out 20:19 < kanzure> just finishing up some other code 20:20 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:23 < delinquentme> http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/diy/mutant-quadrotor-mav-lifts-off-after-a-century-of-development 20:23 < delinquentme> weird flying machine 20:24 < delinquentme> http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/diy/ucsds-latest-ifling-is-100-more-flingy 20:24 < delinquentme> REALLY 20:24 < delinquentme> fucking christ 20:24 < delinquentme> people are paid 20:24 < delinquentme> to build this shit 20:24 -!- b_nicotina [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has quit [Quit: Bye] 20:25 -!- b_nicotina [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:25 < kanzure> "paid" is a relative term :) 20:25 -!- epitron__ [~epitron@bito.ponzo.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:25 -!- epitron__ [~epitron@bito.ponzo.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:25 -!- epitron__ [~epitron@unaffiliated/epitron] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:26 -!- epitron [~epitron@unaffiliated/epitron] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:30 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:31 < delinquentme> this is awesome http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/diy/youve-never-seen-a-drive-system-like-this-before 20:35 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:40 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:41 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:43 < katsmeow-afk> i have seen it before tho, and wondered the same now as then: how long before it melts thru the plastic coating on the floor, or the rubber ball starts smoking? 20:43 < delinquentme> katsmeow-afk, seems like a small issue 20:44 < delinquentme> ps katsmeow-afk why are you never @ keyboard :P 20:47 < katsmeow-afk> sorry, was afk installing an new hd 20:47 < katsmeow-afk> i multitask a lot, keybd means sitting still 20:49 < katsmeow-afk> even if at the keybd, no telling which puter it's hooked to : http://designerthinking.com/images/puterlab/DSCF1739.jpg 20:49 < delinquentme> what are you doing w all that goodness? 20:50 < katsmeow-afk> keeping busy 20:52 < katsmeow-afk> a pata drive began talking in glyphs , i stopped windoze from "fixing it", cable had gone bad, i replaced the full hd with a new one, and a new cable too 20:53 < katsmeow-afk> gave that puter some work doing backups, to keep it busy tonite 20:54 < katsmeow-afk> don't be real envious of the shelf-full, they are all over 10 yrs old, and none are nix 20:56 < delinquentme> yeah i noticed :D 20:56 < delinquentme> eff 20:56 < delinquentme> like im pissy 20:57 < delinquentme> and wishing i had a makerbot 21:06 -!- epitron__ is now known as epitron 21:14 < kanzure> epitron: hi 21:14 < epitron> yo 21:14 < epitron> sup 21:15 < kanzure> could ask you the same, where've you been? 21:15 < epitron> around :) 21:16 < epitron> i peek in here occasionally 21:16 < epitron> i've been idle here for quite a while 21:18 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:22 < diginet> reprap > makerbot 21:22 < diginet> for many different reasons 21:24 < epitron> reprap represent 21:25 < diginet> I'm just morally oppossed to the MakerBot people 21:25 < diginet> bleh 21:26 < diginet> MakerBot is a good lesson on how to sell an inferior product with significant markup 21:26 < kanzure> and yet adrian bowyer still dumped $25k into makerbot 21:27 < diginet> maybe he did, but I still hate those tools 21:33 < delinquentme> epitron, do you have a reprap? 21:34 < epitron> nope! 21:34 < delinquentme> i just mean something that I can make parts with 21:40 * Mokbortolan_ reads a book claiming that the early christians were really an essenian mushroom cult, and "Jesus Christ" was a reference to hallucinogenic mushrooms. 21:42 < katsmeow-afk> i would not have thought of mushrooms in the desert 21:42 < katsmeow-afk> snorting frankensence, maybe 21:47 < kanzure> phew. 21:48 < Mokbortolan_> err, I don't think that place was a desert back then 21:49 < kanzure> delinquentme: ok, what's the next site on the list 21:50 < delinquentme> its in the files there 21:50 < yashgaroth> it was as much of a desert as it is now, which is 'not a desert in some spots' 21:50 < delinquentme> i marked you working from the bottom up 22:00 < kanzure> delinquentme: what is JsonMethods 22:00 < delinquentme> module w a json checker 22:01 < kanzure> ok.. why not put that in ./skraper_addons instead of each file 22:01 < delinquentme> specifially 22:01 < delinquentme> what did i ask 22:01 < delinquentme> fucking come some shit 22:02 < kanzure> huh? 22:11 -!- b_nicotina [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has quit [Quit: Bye] 22:11 -!- b_nicotina [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:12 -!- b_nicotina [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has quit [Client Quit] 22:12 -!- b_nicotina [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:16 < kanzure> delinquentme: atla, bibl, celdes, cnpiec, dietrich's index philosophicus, gale/cengage 22:16 < kanzure> ibr internationale bibliographie der rezensionen geistes - und sozialwissenschaftlicher zeitschritenliteratur 22:17 < kanzure> ibz internationale bibliographie der geistes 22:17 < kanzure> index theologicus, inist, minerva, proquest, xolopo 22:18 < delinquentme> other journals? 22:18 < kanzure> publishers 22:18 < kanzure> or indexing things 22:19 -!- b_nicotina [~ZhangFei@75.111.160.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:27 < kanzure> 'mental health abstracts' 22:27 < kanzure> embase 22:27 < kanzure> expanded academic asap (what?) 22:30 < diginet> is there a word for researching molecules that behave similarly to one another, i.e. finding a replacement for an expensive material in some sort of product? 22:36 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:37 < Mokbortolan_> yes! 22:37 < Mokbortolan_> err 22:37 < Mokbortolan_> well, no 22:37 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:37 < Mokbortolan_> But, it reminded me of something 22:37 < diginet> ah 22:38 < Mokbortolan_> it's a problem for perfumers 22:38 < Mokbortolan_> perfumiers? 22:38 < Mokbortolan_> anyway, there's a way of analyzing the "resonant frequency" of molecules, calculating molecules with similar frequencies, and then synthesizing them 22:39 < Mokbortolan_> there's a guy who figured this out and does just this for perfumers to replace expensive ingredients 22:39 < Mokbortolan_> or dangerous/banned ingredients 22:41 < diginet> wat 22:41 < yashgaroth> did you have a particular molecule in mind diginet? 22:42 < Mokbortolan_> it somewhat controversial 22:42 < Mokbortolan_> 's 22:42 < Mokbortolan_> "the vibration theory of olfaction" 22:43 < diginet> yashgaroth, I was just pondering the possibility of mimicking the structure (and thus function) of proteins with things that can be synthesized in vitro 22:43 < Mokbortolan_> oh, that probably wouldn't apply 22:48 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [] 22:52 < kanzure> delinquentme: pull 22:52 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:07 -!- skorket [~skorket@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:16 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@81.61.34.232.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:20 < diginet> is there much on the direct chemical synthesis of proteins? 23:21 < yashgaroth> sure, but it gets obscenely hard the longer the protein is 23:23 < diginet> how come? I know you probably have to protect the other end of the polypeptide chain somehow, but other than that what causes the problem? 23:23 < diginet> the amino acids bonding chains beside the desired one? 23:23 < diginet> coudl you do it via microfluidics? 23:24 < yashgaroth> same problems as dna synthesis, but the disadvantages act much worse 23:24 < yashgaroth> if one in 100 dna strands is right, you can still find it and you're set 23:24 < yashgaroth> if one in 100 protein strands is right, it's useless 23:25 < diginet> oh, yeah 23:25 < kanzure> also the protein can start to fold 23:25 < kanzure> but yes you can do in vitro protein foldig in microfluidics 23:25 < yashgaroth> that too, which would be less of an issue except they get synthesized in the opposite direction they are by a ribosome 23:25 < kanzure> *folding 23:26 < diginet> what if the invidiual amino acids were propelled down tube which held the growing chain but was too thin to allow it to fold? 23:26 < diginet> *down a tube 23:27 < kanzure> why would you want that? 23:28 < diginet> so that it folds all at once 23:29 < diginet> (you mentioned premature folding as a problem) 23:29 < diginet> draw the chain out and then let it fold 23:30 < yashgaroth> what's wrong with in vitro translation 23:31 < kanzure> "folding all at once" isn't how it normally happens anyway 23:31 < kanzure> a ribosome poops it out 23:32 < diginet> isn't in vitro painfully slow? 23:32 < yashgaroth> hahaha versus peptide synthesis? 23:32 < kanzure> you could always just use a cell/host 23:32 < diginet> I'm just reading out of curiosity 23:32 < yashgaroth> in vitro is lightning fast compared to chemical 23:32 < diginet> I'm not planning not to use a host 23:33 < diginet> why are they slow compared to in vivo synthesis? 23:33 < yashgaroth> waiting for the chemical reaction to proceed, various washing and deprotecting steps 23:34 < diginet> what if the process was automated? 23:34 < kanzure> he is talking about automated :) 23:35 < yashgaroth> it usually is, yeah 23:35 < yashgaroth> holy shit 20 minutes per residue? that's even worse than I thought 23:35 < diginet> wait, are you serious? 23:35 < kanzure> yep.. 23:35 < yashgaroth> versus, at worst, one per second on a ribosome 23:35 < kanzure> one second is a pretty long time for a ribosome to wait 23:36 < diginet> I thought translation was more like 10 amino acids per second 23:36 < yashgaroth> I mean at absolute worst, but yes usually it is 23:36 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:37 < diginet> what makes the ribosome so much faster? 23:37 < kanzure> billions of years 23:37 < diginet> :P 23:38 < kanzure> that's what the definition of enzymes is 23:38 < kanzure> they tend to increase the likelihood of a certain chemical reaction occurring 23:39 < diginet> ohhhh right of course 23:39 < kanzure> in this case there's a network of highly specialized proteins with strong binding affinities for different regions of the ribosomal subunits 23:40 < diginet> so what if you had little microfluidic chambers with a ribosome "glued" to the wall, a pool of tRNAs, and then you sent an mRNA to each chamber 23:41 < kanzure> you would probably lower the reaction efficiency because normally both are free-moving 23:41 < yashgaroth> ribosomes only add the correct tRNA 23:41 < kanzure> and you don't want it glued to a wall.. you want to streptavidinylate or biotinylate it to a bead 23:43 < kanzure> diginet: http://groups.google.com/group/enzymaticsynthesis/browse_thread/thread/7959df81b3429eda 23:43 < kanzure> in particular look near the part where EE-Tu is brought up 23:44 < kanzure> aww yeah diagrams http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Translation.gif 23:45 < yashgaroth> unnnngh it even has transmembrane detection 23:47 < kanzure> diginet: but yes it's not inconceivable to physically isolate ribosomes and play around with them 23:47 < kanzure> it just won't be as productive as you're hoping, at least not at first.. 23:52 < kanzure> if dna synthesis won a nobel prize in the 1980s, what does whole genome synthesis merit? 23:52 < kanzure> or, rather, the nobel prize was for peptide synthesis --- Log closed Sat Apr 14 00:00:34 2012