--- Log opened Sun Apr 22 00:00:46 2012
00:01 < diginet> the fleshlight forums
00:01 < diginet> prepare to laugh, and cry
00:03 < joshcryer> Oh god.
00:03 < joshcryer> Yes, yes, indeed.
00:05 < diginet> I particularly love the thread polling how many of them the members owned
00:06 < diginet> only there would owning more be viewed as an accomplisment
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00:54 < diginet> http://youtu.be/XP5lz2CYNR4 dear god why
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00:54 < diginet> I had forgotten about that atrocity
00:54 < diginet> GARUGAMESH
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08:39 < ParahSailin> _F7_, hey
08:39 < ParahSailin> did that laser cutter for metal have any sort of ventilation?
08:40 < ParahSailin> i didnt think of that at the time
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09:33 < delinquentme> jmil, Y U LOOK FAMIRIAR
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09:34 < jmil> whut?
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09:44 < _F7_> Oh, the plasma cutter?
09:45 < _F7_> It's got forced air from the nozzle, but it's not really ventilated
09:45 < _F7_> why?
09:46 < ParahSailin> i would want to avoid breathing whatever metal fumes come off of vaporizing metal
09:46 < _F7_> it's slag, it gets blasted downward
09:46 < _F7_> just fat oxides and molten metal
09:46 < ParahSailin> ah, so negligible fumes?
09:46 < _F7_> very
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09:53 < kanzure> hi nmz787
09:55 < kanzure> roksprok: can i see the protocol site progress sometime? either code or the site itself..
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10:05 < kanzure> scripted favicons :/ http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3873623
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10:14 < nmz787> yo kanzure
10:14 < delinquentme> so what happens with open source projects in which *only* old versions are open sourced
10:14 < delinquentme> im trying to model this .. like the dev on the old machines would increase for sure
10:15 < delinquentme> also I was thinking about a model around getting suppliers to pay in for me to adapt one of their OEM parts to the machine
10:16 < delinquentme> both those options contribute to development and also allow for obvious fundability?
10:16 < delinquentme> fundabilteh *
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10:42 < delinquentme> nmz787, whats on the plate??
10:42 < delinquentme> you guys find the lens you needed ?
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11:05 < nmz787> havent checked the forum pots
11:05 < nmz787> post
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11:15 < nmz787> kanzure: ever hear re chandni?
11:16 < kanzure> not yet
11:17 < kanzure> well, yes, but nothing worth reporting
11:23 < klafka1> dammit
11:24 < klafka1> i was supposed togo to legal observers training today
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11:48 < klafka1> hey kanzure http://groups.google.com/group/julia-dev/browse_thread/thread/61fb4e3847dcc2b9?pli=1
11:48 < klafka1> any thoughts on julia the language?
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11:54 < kanzure> klafka1: are you looking at it because it has JIT?
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12:41 < Cat4D> i need a dvi/hdmi/wqxga mems gate for beam steering using vid card, prefer both pixel and analogue with 3+ channels gated ... anyone know of any devices? (typical 1-3w each laser channel)
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15:22 < klafka1> kanzure lookign at it because it's fast
15:22 < klafka1> i guess
15:22 < klafka1> and decent
15:22 < kanzure> fast for what? just in general?
15:23 < klafka1> yeah
15:23 < klafka1> compared to say python/ruby/et al
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15:23 < klafka1> like the language is farly ruby/pythonic but like fast
15:24 < kanzure> do you need the extra speed? is pypi/cython/cpython not working out?
15:24 < klafka1> i don't currently
15:25 < klafka1> but i mean i have in the past and i will in the future
15:25 < klafka1> the lead of cython in that google groups post is advocating for julia over cython
15:25 < klafka1> in fact
15:25 < klafka1> well not over but as an excellent complement
15:26 < klafka1> like for instance i know right now we are using all ruby but ruby is fucking slow so if i do stuff like build a recommendation engine i'm going to need to do that in another language
15:27 < kanzure> depends on how you are doing it
15:27 < kanzure> if you put all your recommendation code in each page request, yes, that's going to be slow no matter what you do
15:27 < kanzure> if you pre-compute your recommendations you can just pull those up on each page load
15:27 < kanzure> your recommendations shouldn't be recomputed on each page load, in general
15:27 < klafka1> kanzure well it depends what sort of algorithm i'm doing
15:27 < klafka1> i would never do that
15:28 < klafka1> but even pre-computing is potentially expensive
15:28 < kanzure> ok just checking
15:28 < klafka1> for instance if i do matrix completion via gradient descent
15:28 < kanzure> if you are pre-computing them, 0.1 sec vs. 0.2 sec is only somewhat important
15:28 < klafka1> vs. say a jacquard similarity matrix
15:28 < kanzure> (on a page load, 1sec vs. 3sec is hugely important)
15:28 < klafka1> um but 2-3hrs vs. 30 minutes
15:28 < klafka1> is important
15:28 < kanzure> 2-3 hours for all users?
15:28 < klafka1> yeah
15:28 < kanzure> wait, i mean
15:29 < klafka1> i mean i have no idea how long it will take to compute
15:29 < kanzure> 2-3 hours per user?
15:29 < klafka1> i was thinking total
15:29 < kanzure> btw: you can come up with a rough approximation of how long it would take
15:29 < klafka1> but im ean for comparison some of my research, each run to convergence took 7hrs
15:29 < klafka1> kanzure i can't because i don't know what algorithm i'd use
15:29 < klafka1> heh
15:29 < kanzure> i'm really confused
15:29 < kanzure> how do you know it took 7 hours in that case?
15:30 < klafka1> well i didn't finish! geez hold on, so in comparison in some of my research a run to convergence took 7hrs after i added a bunch of C. it would take 30-40 hrs without the C
15:30 < klafka1> my point is it's in situations like this where using a faster language is important
15:31 < kanzure> i am really skeptical of this. what is your algorithm doing that took it 40 hours?
15:31 < klafka1> ? learning a 100^2 variable factor graph from data
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15:32 < kanzure> "learning" a graph?
15:32 < kanzure> and i'm not clear on what the structure of your graph actually is
15:33 < klafka1> i was using stochastic gradient descent wherein I had to estimate the partition function and the gradient using MCMC
15:33 < klafka1> learning a graphical model?
15:33 < klafka1> a factor graph is a generalization of a Markov random field wherein each node has a clique of one
15:34 < klafka1> the structure of the graph represents the conditional probability distribution of the variables
15:35 < klafka1> anyway my point about that was, there are distinct cases when you are doing ML where the speed of the language matters. In my job of building a recommendation engine, I don't know that this will be an issue, but I foresee it may be one, hence my interest in a fast yet syntactically non sucky language.
15:36 < klafka1> algorithms taking 10-100+ hrs are fairly common in computational statistics also kanzure
15:36 < kanzure> directededge.com built their own graph database to get their recommendation engine fast enough
15:36 < kanzure> 10-100 hours in recommendation engines is not OK in web apps
15:36 < kanzure> brownies: any thoughts?
15:36 < klafka1> why?
15:36 < klafka1> i'm really really skeptical of graph based recommendation engines btw
15:37 < klafka1> I'm also skeptical as to the point of a graph database unless you're doing lots of traversals
15:37 < kanzure> you just said you're using a graph of your own
15:37 < brownies> o.O
15:37 < brownies> reading
15:37 < klafka1> a graph is a totally different thing from a graphical model
15:37 < klafka1> and I stated that was something I was doing in my research
15:39 < brownies> sounds like some fun research
15:39 < klafka1> it was
15:39 < brownies> anyway it's fairly obvious the approach they're taking and they are doing tons of traversals so it's cool
15:39 < brownies> if you want to go the more "normal" route of piling matrices onto each other then you could do C or Haskell i suppose
15:39 < brownies> hehe, accidental math pun. anyway.
15:39 < klafka1> well the actual part of it that was 'research' was building a system of sample based regularization techniques based on a priori knowledge to bias the model
15:39 < klafka1> heh
15:40 < brownies> i think you are going to want something higher level than C
15:40 < kanzure> klafka1: maybe i am misunderstanding. is it 10-100 hours per recommendation?
15:41 < brownies> *per* recommendation? -_- no
15:41 < klafka1> well 10-100 hrs to learn to convergence
15:41 < klafka1> so that'd be for _all_ recommendations
15:41 < kanzure> well ok. a 100 hour algorithm that you run once or twice a year.. that sounds ok
15:41 < klafka1> a 100 hr algorithm isn't really ok either
15:41 < brownies> naw, i believe in his approach he'd have to update and re-run things as new data came in
15:41 < klafka1> yeah
15:41 < klafka1> unless i did something online
15:41 < brownies> there's something to be said for the pagerank-esque approch man
15:42 < brownies> because you just update one edge and let it hang out
15:42 < brownies> next time the edge is needed, stuff will be computed on the fly as always and it'll all Just Work(tm)
15:42 < klafka1> idk i've really only dug a little into IR stuff
15:42 < brownies> IR?
15:42 < klafka1> information retrieval
15:42 < brownies> oh
15:42 < klafka1> i mean recommendation engines / collaborative filtering are a subset of IR iirc
15:42 < brownies> i strongly doubt you'll need to optimize things on that front
15:42 < klafka1> yeah
15:43 < brownies> just throw it all into an existing SQL database with a sane schema
15:43 < brownies> that should last you a good long while.
15:43 < klafka1> i'm going to start with just a jacquard similarity matrix
15:43 < klafka1> which has the advantage of being retardedly fast and I can update online
15:44 < brownies> boring, but fine.
15:44 < klafka1> yep
15:44 < brownies> incidetnally, i need to build a recommendation engine soon too.
15:44 < brownies> let me know how it goes!
15:44 < klafka1> well a couple things i've been learning is that for recommendation engines since all models suck pretty bad, it is often better to focus on variable selection, as well as non-algorithm stuff like placement and presentation
15:45 < klafka1> because I have basically pieces of content, as well as how people interact with that content
15:45 < klafka1> so for instance i have 'bob's blog article 1' and a person may have 'visited/read' the article they may have 'liked' the article they may hvae 'shared' they may have 'commented' etc...
15:46 < ParahSailin> what are you guys talking about
15:46 < klafka1> recommendation engines
15:46 < kanzure> recommendation engines, algorithms, web apps
15:46 < klafka1> it's kind of sad though, i'd like to have problems that let me do devilishly cool algorithms
15:47 < klafka1> i'm really itching  to implement ensemble MCMC methods
15:47 < klafka1> i really really really want to
15:48 < klafka1> argh i think i drank too much caffeine to the point where i'm having a hard time writing boring stuff
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16:06 < delinquentme> klafka1, you should check out the recommendation engine they're working on for reddit
16:06 < delinquentme> last I heard they were in the process of defining the solution space
16:06 < delinquentme> looking @ a number of diff algos
16:06 < kanzure> ugh reddit again
16:07 < strangewarp> goddamnit reddit
16:09 < strangewarp> needs fewer upvote-based economies; more overlapping social-vetting economies. also link them to physical goods maybe eventually if the governments are ok with it [puppy dog eyes]
16:11 < klafka1> what is an 'overlapping social vetting' economy?
16:11 < klafka1> and how is that different from an 'upvote based economy'
16:11 < klafka1> isn't one a subset of the other
16:12 < klafka1> also delinquentme link plz
16:15 < strangewarp> Basically I'd like to see whether many multiple overlapping reputation economies, bundled up by aggregators, could be more successful than single reputation economies, which end up biased if they have a monopoly on the service
16:16 < strangewarp> And I think such a system could be extended to verify that people are experts in given skills, and whatnot
16:16 < klafka1> so are you looking at determining the importance of content explicitly based on the known knowledge of people in the system and their actions within the system?
16:17 < klafka1> e.g. a new bio paper comes out it coudl be tagged as interesting or good or what have you because a lot of known biology experts are commenting on it ?
16:28 < delinquentme> klafka1,  http://groups.google.com/group/rrecommender
16:32 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:32 < klafka1> ah
16:39 < klafka1> this thread is hilarious http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3875855
16:40 < strangewarp> sorry, was reading something there; I forgot that I'd been saying anything in IRC
16:41 < strangewarp> klafka1: I imagine there would be feedback between concrete skill-verification, and the weight given to a person's evaluations of the worth of people and objects explicitly linked to their areas of expertise
16:42 < n_bentha> klafka1: those guys are strange
16:42 < klafka1> so you are still working on the premise of a voting economy but votes non-uniformly distributed based on a priori knowledge of their skill sets
16:42 < n_bentha> ceo's are supposed to earn a bit more than the rest of the people
16:43 < strangewarp> Tempered, of course, by systems to ensure that people with opposing political/religious opinions can't explicitly gang up on one another, except when the issue is concrete and testable..
16:43 < klafka1> I kind of agree with the guy who said startup CEOs should make about as much as the most senior engineers
16:43 < kanzure> n_bentha: or more realistically, you want to pay market rate for someone to achieve market results
16:43 < strangewarp> klafka1: I suppose I'm saying for all the veneration of Reddit, there's still a long way to go
16:43 < klafka1> strangewarp agreed
16:43 < kanzure> no reddit veneration allowed in here
16:43 < kanzure> shoo
16:44 < klafka1> I've thought about this a lot too with regards to verifying expert skills
16:44 < klafka1> it's hard
16:44 < strangewarp> yeah :\
16:44 < n_bentha> then why is the president paid more than senators?
16:44 < strangewarp> I'm only a casual, so far as thinking about most things, but it's good to get some external validation on the issue
16:45 < n_bentha> but yea, a 5x difference in pay rate is a little much.
16:45 < klafka1> the whole point is to not pay a startup CEO a ton of money because you want them to have most of their investment be in stock
16:45 < kanzure> not really
16:46 < kanzure> some startup founders are being paid a substantial payout in series fundraising
16:46 < kanzure> so that they can focus on the startup
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16:46 < kanzure> instead of e.g. waiting four years to get their "millions" out
16:46 < klafka1> I've also heard that called a fairly classic warning sign in a startup
16:47 < kanzure> klafka1: if you're an investor, you want a $100 million exit not a $10 million exit
16:47 < kanzure> to a founder making $50k/year, a $10 million exit is fantastic
16:47 < kanzure> an investor needs to incentive the founder to the point that a $10 million exit is not appealing
16:48 < klafka1> mmmm
16:48 < klafka1> interesting
16:52 < klafka1> it sounds like in general then that what to pay a CEO depends on a number of factors, however, I think it can be a  fairly large warning sign when one is payed a very large salary particularly in an early stage startup
16:52 < delinquentme> corn based filament for repraps
16:56 < klafka1> what is fizz buzz?
16:56 < klafka1> um ok i just found it
16:56 < klafka1> wow really people fail this that call themselves coders?
16:57 < klafka1> i won't even call myeslf a developer but that is instantly easy
16:57 < diginet> I think we need more. . .developers developers developers developers
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17:11 < kanzure> hi Jora
17:11 < Jora> hi kanzure
17:11 < Jora> this channel active a lot or no?
17:11 < kanzure> yep pretty active
17:12 < Jora> cool
17:12 < kanzure> why?
17:12 < Jora> the neuroscience room is pretty dead usually and i wanted to find somewhere that discussed transhumanism a bit that was more active
17:13 < Jora> ive never been in here before
17:13 < kanzure> ah alright
17:14 < kanzure> yes we have some neuroscience people
17:14 < klafka1> oh that reminds me
17:15 < klafka1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4KrhDZQ088
17:15 < klafka1> Connectomics: Sebastian Seung vs. Tony Movshon, Columbia 2012
17:15 < kanzure> we had someone in here claiming to be a friend of sebastien's
17:16 < kanzure> about a week ago
17:16 < Jora> thanks
17:16 < kanzure> *sebastian's
17:16 < Jora> lol , maybe true maybe not
17:17 < n_bentha> thx 4 da link
17:18 < klafka1> interesting
17:19 < klafka1> he's pretty cool
17:19 < klafka1> or the stuff he's doing is
17:19 < klafka1> i don't know anything about the person
17:19 < Jora> the best lay
17:26 < Jora> are you all mainly biologists
17:27 < kanzure> mix of biologists, coders, machinists
17:27 < n_bentha> <3 machinists <3
17:30 < delinquentme> Jora,  you're in the right place :D
17:30 < delinquentme> lots of discussion on tons of cool projects
17:30 < delinquentme> the join message covers it pretty well =]
17:30 < Jora> yes looks like it :)
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17:30 < Jora> i added this to my favorites & im watching the video that was posted earlier
17:38 < kanzure> Jora: are you a biologist?
17:39  * delinquentme prays for electrical engineer
17:39 < Jora> no im a information systems student with degree in psychology
17:39 < delinquentme> nice!
17:39 < delinquentme> <3 me some shrinkery
17:39 < delinquentme> Jora, list you cognitive biases
17:39 < delinquentme> jk jk
17:39 < Jora> lol
17:40 < Jora> are you an EE?
17:40 < delinquentme> ha!
17:40 < delinquentme> wellll
17:40 < Jora> student?
17:40 < delinquentme> im a learning EE
17:41 < delinquentme> business marketer on paper web programmer by day and aspiring biohacker
17:41 < delinquentme> like the rest of the wild-eyed optimists in here :D
17:41 < delinquentme> Jora, you into carbon copies?
17:42 < kanzure> delinquentme: i don't think it's fair to say the others in here match your description
17:42 < delinquentme> i meant the biohacker part :D
17:42 < kanzure> some of the users here are "accomplished biohackers, actual web programmers"
17:42 < delinquentme> kinda
17:42 < delinquentme> to an extent
17:42 < Jora> not familiar with the lingo of carbon copy unless you're talking about email
17:42 < delinquentme> Jora, its a project to copy brains :D
17:42 < Jora> i just have had a couple programming courses, im not a web programmer yet
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17:43 < Jora> delinquentme sounds cool
17:43 < delinquentme> yeah im not sure if that was a cut @ me
17:43 < kanzure> hi Lucas_
17:43 < Lucas_> hi
17:43 < kanzure> delinquentme: wasn't. like i said, what you said wasn't fair
17:43 < Lucas_> that was frighteningly fast
17:44 < klafka1> biologists / coders / statisticians or some mix thereof
17:44 < Jora> id like to do a masters in comp sci and then get some bio classes and go to grad school for computational neuroscience with some emphasis on neural engineering in the distant future
17:44 < klafka1> i discourage people from comp neuroscience
17:44 < klafka1> heh
17:44 < kanzure> whaat klafka1 why
17:44 < Jora> but i want to finish this info systems degree and work and get my maths
17:44 < klafka1> they are the string theorists of the neuroscience wordl
17:44 < kanzure> hardly
17:45 < kanzure> many of them have simulations based on physiological data
17:45 < klafka1> well i suppose it depends what you mean by 'comp neuroscience'.
17:45 < klafka1> link?
17:45 < klafka1> and what sort of physiological data
17:45 < Jora> id want to collect physiological data and make programs and interfaces to link people to computers
17:45 < klafka1> how do they verify the 'wiring and firing' of their models?
17:45 < kanzure> the type extracted by neurophysiologists :P
17:45 < kanzure> klafka1: by scanning tissues
17:45 < kanzure> klafka1: like http://3scan.com/
17:45 < klafka1> link?
17:45 < klafka1> :P
17:46 < kanzure> wiring is a huge part of the task, yes, but also the set of ion channels and receptors
17:46 < klafka1> most comp neurosci people i've seen build neural nets or 'neural nets' to model stuff and verify it only at a very high level
17:46 < kanzure> no that's your "AI" people or "machine learning" peeps
17:46 < klafka1> no that's not at all
17:47 < klafka1> well maybe AI people
17:47 < klafka1> but not ML people
17:47 < kanzure> ok, it's unfair of me to place ML people there
17:47 < klafka1> heh
17:47 < kanzure> however! ANNs are very popular in ML
17:47 < Jora> does machine learning/ai have a place in neuroscience/neuro engineering stuff?
17:47 < klafka1> um so yes
17:47 < kanzure> yes, but not in the way that klafka is talking about
17:47 < klafka1> yeah
17:47 < klafka1> for instance
17:47 < klafka1> connectomics is a great example
17:47 < klafka1> connectomics is basically a huge computer vision/image problem
17:48 < kanzure> klafka1: this doesn't feel like ANN-style research to me.. http://www.neuron.yale.edu/neuron/
17:48 < kanzure> "NEURON: for empirically-based simulations of neurons and networks of neurons"
17:48 < delinquentme> klafka1, 3scan (theil backed) is working on it >> http://www.3scan.com/
17:49 < klafka1> 3scan seems very interesting
17:55 < Lucas_> kanzure: How do you know people at WFPF? (world federation parkour and freerunning )
17:56 < kanzure> oh fooey.. let me think
17:56 < delinquentme> klafka1, there were a number of cool startups who got funded: http://www.kurzweilai.net/breakout-labs-announces-first-grants-to-support-radical-scientific-innovation
17:56 < kanzure> i know someone there; just trying to think of the right person
17:56 < klafka1> ah delinquentme
17:56 < klafka1> excellent
17:56 < kanzure> ziyadb: was it you?
17:56 < delinquentme> klafka1, keep working on that
17:56 < delinquentme> youll need the evil in that "excellent"
17:56 < kanzure> it might be zacharycohn
17:57 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
17:57 < kanzure> Lucas_: as an aspiring superhero, parkour is important
17:57 -!- Cat4D [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
17:57 < Lucas_> kanzure: wow, how don't you know? lol.  I know a few guys over there and have had the pleasure to train with them
17:58 < kanzure> it's someone i know for other reasons
18:00 < Jora> how old is everyone here?
18:00 < Jora> im 28
18:00 < kanzure> i'm 12
18:00 < Lucas_> 20
18:00 < delinquentme> 27!
18:00 < Jora> lol
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18:02 < Jora> Parkour just seems like an early 20s thing thats why I asked
18:03 < delinquentme> Jora, its for anyone with health insurance
18:04 < Jora> yeah
18:06 < klafka1> 26
18:08 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep]
18:09 < Jora> new game of thrones tonight :)
18:11 < delinquentme> a rapman 3d printer?
18:11 < delinquentme> at like 3x the cost
18:11 < delinquentme> NICE
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18:15 < yashgaroth> so uh my computer losing power every few hours and then starting right back up, I'm guessing is a PSU issue?
18:16 < delinquentme> yashgaroth, when was the last time you cleaned out the dust
18:16 < delinquentme> sounds like a CPU overheating issue
18:16 < yashgaroth> a long time ago
18:16 < delinquentme> do that.
18:16 < delinquentme> compressed air if you have em
18:16 < delinquentme> better yet ... air compressor to the insides
18:16 < yashgaroth> but doesn't that usually give an error or something, and it wouldn't restart til it cools down?
18:16 < delinquentme> + gas mask
18:17 < delinquentme> well as soon as it kicks out into reboot mode its going to start cooling as the CPU load is much less no?
18:17 < delinquentme> also you computer =[
18:17 < n_bentha> you don't need compressed air, yashgaroth
18:17 < delinquentme> it probs has a cat growing inside it
18:17 < yashgaroth> idk speedfan says it's not running hot
18:17 < n_bentha> just take it apart, and take out the dust bunnies with your hands and paper towels
18:17 < n_bentha> and reseat the memory
18:18 < delinquentme> pay specific attention to the fuzzies in the CPU heat sink
18:18 < delinquentme> reset the memory?
18:18 < n_bentha> reseating the memory can do wonders--trust me
18:18 < delinquentme> ive never reset memory
18:18 < yashgaroth> ram's seated, and even then shouldn't it throw an error?
18:18 < delinquentme> doesnt that happen when you reboot ?
18:18 < delinquentme> sooo usually you start with simple fixes
18:19 < delinquentme> and then go up the line of severity in treatments
18:19 < delinquentme> cleaning out the tower should be # 1
18:19 < n_bentha> no. serious shit can happen to ram. even when u think it's seated fine
18:19 < n_bentha> just clean it out and reconnect everything.
18:19 < delinquentme> n_bentha, how do you reset it?
18:19 < delinquentme> oic
18:19 < n_bentha> reseat*
18:19 < yashgaroth> I had a previous problem where it wouldn't start unless I reseated the ram, but this is new
18:19 < n_bentha> disconnect and reconnect :)
18:19 < delinquentme> yeah thats harmless enough
18:19 < delinquentme> just make sure that if your ram sticks are different that they both go back into their corresponding slots
18:20 < n_bentha> a defrag and would be good too :)
18:21 < delinquentme> yashgaroth, windows pc?
18:21 < yashgaroth> well I'll try dusting next time it shuts off, which should be in a few hours
18:21 < yashgaroth> yeah 7
18:21 < yashgaroth> I know I know, but I like vidya games
18:21 < delinquentme> if you want a super quick fix you could also just remove the side panel
18:21 < delinquentme> for a little extra air flow
18:21 < n_bentha> 0.o
18:22 < yashgaroth> it's actually had the panel off for a while, my replacement cpu fan is too big for it to close :/
18:22 < n_bentha> how old is the system?
18:22 < delinquentme> your mobo might also have a display out to tell you whats going wrong
18:22 < delinquentme> LOL
18:22 < delinquentme> awesome
18:22 < n_bentha> what r your specs?
18:22 < delinquentme> yashgaroth, you playing d3?
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18:22 < yashgaroth> yup
18:22 < delinquentme> NICE
18:22 < yashgaroth> uhh it's pretty fast, I keep switching out parts
18:23 < yashgaroth> the mobo/case is like 5 years old maybe
18:23 < yashgaroth> friend's sister works at blizzard so I've been in the beta since it opened :D
18:24 < n_bentha> cool
18:24 < delinquentme> yashgaroth, die.
18:24 < delinquentme> die.
18:24 < delinquentme> also shes probs dead
18:24 < delinquentme> lol i heard they work em harder than EA
18:24 < yashgaroth> nah she doesn't do coding
18:24 < delinquentme> oic
18:25 < yashgaroth> I don't think they have them on meth like MS does
18:25 < Jora> lol
18:26 < n_bentha> lololol]
18:26 < yashgaroth> you laugh, but
18:26 < delinquentme> yashgaroth, company insurance plan provides adderall
18:26 < Jora> does MS having them working 80 plus hours per week?
18:26 < klafka1> MS has them on meth eh?
18:26 < yashgaroth> yes
18:27 < Jora> lol.....
18:27 < yashgaroth> it's fairly well known, at least if you're from seattle I guess
18:27 < Jora> or do the programmers take meth to code at max capacity
18:27 < Jora> LOL!
18:27 < yashgaroth> I think they just hand it out for free and encourage working while tweaking
18:27 < Jora> meth is the dumbest illegal drug to do
18:28 < Jora> I honestly doubt that.
18:28 < yashgaroth> not if it's high quality
18:28 < yashgaroth> I can think of several worse drugs
18:28 < delinquentme> coffee 2.0!
18:28 < n_bentha> adderall is probably what they giv e them
18:28 < Jora> if they have add
18:30 < n_bentha> even if they don't?
18:30 -!- Lucas_ [44c1135b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.193.19.91] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
18:30 < n_bentha> oh i'm supposed to get some of that cephalexin stuff next month
18:30 < n_bentha> :)
18:30 < delinquentme> lololol
18:30 < yashgaroth> then I guess every single pre-med has ADD huh
18:30 < n_bentha> wait no
18:30 < n_bentha> shit
18:30 < klafka1> i'm not convinced amphetamine based stimulants are useful for creative work
18:30 < delinquentme> n_bentha, you've met the hiring criteria
18:30 < delinquentme> klafka1, INTERESTING
18:30 < delinquentme> agreed.
18:31 < yashgaroth> yeah but a lot of coding work isn't creative per se
18:31 < klafka1> mmm fair enough, that may be why i dislike it generally.
18:31 < n_bentha> provigil* --made by the company cephalon
18:31 < delinquentme> agreed w 80% confidence
18:31 < klafka1> oh provigil
18:31 < klafka1> yeah
18:31 < klafka1> modafinil
18:31 < n_bentha> yeah!
18:31 < yashgaroth> yeah I got some of that, it's pretty nice
18:31 < n_bentha> nuvigil
18:31 < klafka1> modafinil is incredibly expensive
18:32 < n_bentha> my insurance is 20 dollars co pay
18:32 < n_bentha> so i get whaetver i want for 20 bucks
18:32 < yashgaroth> it's like a dollar a pill from india
18:32 < kanzure> my insurance doesn't cover my adderall
18:32 < kanzure> so i pay out of pocket
18:32 < klafka1> did your insurance approve your modafinil?
18:32 < n_bentha> i'll just tell my doc to write me a big 90-day scrips for 2x what i need
18:32 < klafka1> what do you have?
18:32 < n_bentha> yes my insurance does
18:32 < klafka1> they are very not keen on covering it for grey label uses
18:32 < n_bentha> blue cross blue shield
18:32 < n_bentha> I've got a "legitimate" use for it
18:32 < klafka1> it's white label uses fyi are narcolepsy
18:32 < yashgaroth> for narcolepsy or do you just have a cool GP?
18:33 < klafka1> are you narcoleptic?
18:33 < n_bentha> -note the "'s
18:33 < n_bentha> I've got a really awesome GP
18:33 < klafka1> GP ?
18:33 < yashgaroth> general practitioner
18:33 < yashgaroth> idk what the american term is
18:33 < klafka1> so you know that even if a dr writes a script for it and even if the insurance covers it they can still reject it for you
18:34 < n_bentha> GP is the american term, yashy
18:34 < klafka1> i know because i went through this with my GF
18:34 < klafka1> as she has MS, and provigil is sometimes prescribed grey-label for that but we ran into a huge hassle where most insurance companies won't cover it
18:34 < n_bentha> well, I'm not going to pay more than 20 bucks for it, so we'll see how it goes
18:34 < n_bentha> klafka1, just get your doc to change what the dx
18:35 < n_bentha> so much can be done in this world if one monkey signs off for X
18:35 < klafka1> um so you're saying 'tell the dr to diagnose someone with narcolepsy' ?
18:35 < klafka1> that's illegal you know
18:35 < n_bentha> just a couple buttons need to be pressed by X monkey and you can do Y
18:35 < n_bentha> haha legal.
18:36 < yashgaroth> $1.40 per pill off mymodafinil, they're pretty reliable
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18:37 < n_bentha> that's 40+ dollars for a 30 day script
18:37 < klafka1> yashgaroth that's pretty nice
18:38 -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:38 < yashgaroth> still cheap, especially if you need it
18:38 < delinquentme> so a vendor strolls into town touting "smart pills"
18:39 < delinquentme> people swarm yadda ya ... " How do they work " ... " Is this really a smart pill ? " Yes they work. yes it is infact a smart pill
18:39 < delinquentme> one guy walks up
18:39 < delinquentme> TAKE MY MONEY
18:39 < delinquentme> vendor sells him a jar ...
18:39 < delinquentme> dude continutes to come back week after week stocking up on these smart pills
18:40 < delinquentme> one day he walks up to the vendor ... says " These smart pills taste a little bit like rabbit shit "
18:40 < delinquentme> vendor: " Youre getting smarter already ! "
18:40 < delinquentme> </share>
18:40 < n_bentha> heh
18:42 < delinquentme> 1 ! score!
18:42 < klafka1> lol
18:44 < kanzure> i think i am paying $12/pill
18:44 < n_bentha> don't do it bro
18:44 < katsmeow-afk> for what??
18:44 < kanzure> adderall.
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18:45 < katsmeow-afk> ouch
18:45 < kanzure> *shrug*
18:45 < n_bentha> dayyyum
18:45 < katsmeow-afk> charge it to insurance
18:45 < kanzure> insurance doesn't cover it
18:45 < klafka1> kanzure is it generic?
18:45 < kanzure> also, i'd be willing to pay up to $500/mo in pills
18:45 < klafka1> that seems really high for generic
18:45 < n_bentha> i'll sell it to you for 5 dollars a pill?
18:45 < katsmeow-afk> will if a doc writes it?
18:45 < kanzure> klafka1: no, the generic is actually a different formulation; but generic costs the same anyway
18:45 < n_bentha> still make lots of profit
18:45 < n_bentha> ke ke ke
18:45 < n_bentha> (j/k)
18:46 < delinquentme> does anyone have advice on how to estimate the market cap of a private company?
18:46 < delinquentme> website
18:46 < kanzure> katsmeow-afk: a doc does! heh.
18:46 < delinquentme> number of employees
18:46 < kanzure> delinquentme: market cap only applies to publicly traded companies
18:46 < klafka1> delinquentme the amount of money the last round of investors paid per stock share * # of shares of stock
18:46 < klafka1> is a decent lower bound as long as the company is doing better
18:46 < delinquentme> yeah i mean like
18:47 < delinquentme> " how can I estimate what they're worth "
18:47 < delinquentme> private companies
18:47 < klafka1>  not having that specific amount of information?
18:47 < klafka1> do you know what their revenue is?
18:47 < delinquentme> nah
18:47 < klafka1> it depends on what you know baout the company
18:47 < delinquentme> like i need to go off publically available information
18:47 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]
18:47 < kanzure> you should stick with public biotech companies, and read their SEC filings
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18:55 < kanzure> gmail has screwed up all the links in my emails
18:55 < kanzure> http://goog_1445275241/
18:55 < kanzure> what the hell is this?
18:56 < katsmeow-afk> a google_browser shortcut,preaps
18:57 < kanzure> anyway.. simon linked to this:
18:57 < kanzure> <$0.50 16bit chip http://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store/em/EMController/Microcontroller/Texas-Instruments/MSP430F2011IN/_/R-4243501/A-4243501/An-0?action=part&catalogId=500201&langId=-1&storeId=500201&listIndex=-1
18:57 < kanzure> and <$5 programmer for it
18:57 < kanzure> http://e2e.ti.com/group/msp430launchpad/w/default.aspx
18:57 < katsmeow-afk> wow
18:58 < katsmeow-afk> also wow because i haven't heard from avnet or hamilton-avnet in forever
18:58 < kanzure> when i was first looking into microcontroller programming,
18:58 < kanzure> all the dev boards looked hiddeously expensive
18:58 < kanzure> and i didn't want to make my own flasher at the time
18:59 < katsmeow-afk> many still are
18:59 < kanzure> i was really suspicious of these >$100 dev boards
18:59 < kanzure> so anyway. <$5 dev board makes me happy. i wonder if it works.
19:01 < poptire> kanzure: have you really never heard of the msp430?
19:01 < poptire> and you call yourself a hacker
19:01 < kanzure> haha
19:02 < kanzure> nope i haven't used it/heard of it
19:02 < poptire> they've been around for a long time
19:02 < poptire> they're good
19:02 < poptire> they're cheap
19:02 < katsmeow-afk> i heard of it last year, ut prices have dropped
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19:02 < poptire> the linux toolchain is a bit crappy
19:02 < kanzure> ahh. that sucks.
19:02 < poptire> in terms of setting it up, at least
19:02 < poptire> once it's set up, you're good
19:03 < poptire> katsmeow-afk: so far as i know, the dev board's always been $4.30
19:04 < katsmeow-afk> any MSP430's with hardware multipliers?
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19:05  * katsmeow-afk searches around
19:07 < katsmeow-afk> it has an external coprocessor for math
19:08 < kanzure> well, the z80 doesn't even do multiplication
19:08 < kanzure> a math coprocessor would have been nice :|
19:08 < klafka1> wow UF cut their CS dept
19:08 < katsmeow-afk> i wasn't holding it against the chip, i just wondered if i had a compelling reason to use it yet
19:12 < katsmeow-afk> ok, just chasing down one MSP430 with a hardware multiplier, the MSP430F1611
19:13 < katsmeow-afk> , it's over $12 per chip
19:13 < Jora> you guys building your own cpus
19:14 < katsmeow-afk> it *is* a microcontroller, has a cpu on it
19:14 < Jora> i meant desktops sorry
19:14 < AdrianG> klafka1: entirely?
19:15 < klafka1> looks like it
19:15 < klafka1> http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2012/04/22/university-of-florida-eliminates-computer-science-department-increases-athletic-budgets-hmm/
19:16 < katsmeow-afk> no money in smart computers, no one wants to spend money on them, they pay for the roman arena model of entertainment
19:17 < kanzure> Jora: http://code.google.com/p/homecmos
19:18 < Jora> nyan cat, gotta love it
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19:23 < poptire> klafka1: there's a gif for that
19:23 < poptire> http://gifs.gifbin.com/florida.gif
19:25 < poptire> and, honestly, to be competitive in the global marketplace we need big, strong dudes, not dweeby engineers
19:25 < poptire> :P
19:25 < klafka1> haha
19:25 < klafka1> true
19:25 < klafka1> it was good enough for sampson
19:25 < klafka1> dammit
19:25 < poptire> who else is gonna beat up the chinese?
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19:28 < delinquentme> yashgaroth, http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/319726_306004566140259_126894987384552_702980_622646966_n.jpg
19:28 < delinquentme> found ur comp
19:28 < yashgaroth> I might do that actually, this micro case is really annoying
19:29 < klafka1> Perl is ?some assembly required?. Python is ?batteries included?. PHP is ?kitchen sink, but it?s from Canada and both faucets are labeled C?.
19:29 < klafka1> lol
19:30 < poptire> klafka1: what would the C programming language fall under in that analogy?
19:31 < klafka1> 'completely DIY"
19:31 < louipc> how bout lisp
19:32 < poptire> "some assembly required"  :P
19:32 < poptire> Re: C
19:33 < delinquentme> no.
19:33 < delinquentme> php is >> http://g-cdn.apartmenttherapy.com/234991/Useless01_rect540.jpg
19:34 < louipc> php slices your avocado?
19:34 < delinquentme> :D
19:35 < delinquentme> sorry to break the silly mode but WTF:
19:35 < delinquentme> http://www.satimagingcorp.com/galleryimages/worldview-2-qatar-doha-the-pearl.jpg
19:35 < delinquentme> that is BEAUTIFUL and I've neber heard of / seen it before
19:35 < delinquentme> bigger: http://hqwallpapers.eu/wallpaper/pearlqatar1_en_wikipedia_org_wiki_the_pearl_qatar_high_resolution_desktop_7000x3851_wallpaper-1007101.jpg
19:36 < louipc> that dubai?
19:36 < delinquentme> quatar
19:36 < louipc> haha they're all doing that stuff now?
19:36 < diginet> *qatar
19:37 < diginet> Lisp is the one true language
19:37 < yashgaroth> perfect storm of oil money, absolute monarchy, and slave labor
19:38 < delinquentme> yashgaroth, +1
19:39 < yashgaroth> I mean, ffs dubai, the point of skyscrapers is that it's cheaper to build up than out
19:39 < louipc> it's funny how they'll have to constantly battle erosion
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19:58 < delinquentme> http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?178,126584
19:58 < delinquentme> delta printer!
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20:01 < delinquentme> damn!!!!!! http://www.marginallyclever.com/2012/02/building-a-delta-robot-alternate-design/
20:02 < kanzure> it's just a picture of a video.. what is it actually
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20:08 < delinquentme> kanzure, you cant run the video?
20:08 < delinquentme> its a delta 3d printer all in metal an acrylic
20:08 < delinquentme> its quite beautiful
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20:26 < kanzure> i'd rather not watch videos on the interwebs, yes
20:31 < delinquentme> ?? no comprendo
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20:32 < delinquentme> OH MAN
20:32 < delinquentme> just ate so much delish health fewd
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20:32 < delinquentme> beans and avocado and tomatoes and chiggn'
20:32 < delinquentme> jar
20:32 < kanzure> delinquentme: signal to noise ratio, man
20:32 < delinquentme> theres nothing going on right now
20:33 < delinquentme> http://www.festo.com/net/SupportPortal/Downloads/26890/NHB_2012_en.pdf  << amazing design
20:35 < delinquentme> ... http://www.festo.com/cms/nl-be_be/16306_16336.htm#id_16336
20:35 < delinquentme> that is almost not real
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20:51 < delinquentme> GOD i love robots http://www.makerbot.com/blog/2012/04/13/robot-makes-chairs-out-of-refrigerators-really/
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21:16 < delinquentme> kanzure, so steppers
21:16 < kanzure> delinquentme: reprap is not precise enough
21:16 < delinquentme> but what I mean is if you scale it
21:16 < delinquentme> could it be ?
21:16 < kanzure> no
21:16 < kanzure> fenn: please dump your original reasons
21:16 < delinquentme> there are settings for movement / revolution
21:16 < delinquentme> in the code
21:17 < kanzure> software isn't the problem
21:17 < delinquentme> well yeah if i know whats the issue ill keep an eye out
21:17 < kanzure> what?
21:18 < kanzure> that's not how you do design :P
21:18 < kanzure> anyway, the xy stage and gantry is mostly done
21:18 < kanzure> just not ordered/assembled yet
21:18 < kanzure> also, i need to whip up a parts list for photolithography work
21:19 < delinquentme> I mean if its simply a matter of scale right?
21:19 < delinquentme> ( and so I can explain myself ... lets assume it is )
21:19 < delinquentme> ... deal?
21:19 < louipc> reprap make crappy parts
21:20 < delinquentme> so if the normal machine is spec'd out to use acme threaded rods which are say 10mm / turn
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21:20 < delinquentme> if you leave the software as it is .. and put in 5mm/ rot you've effectively scaled that axis by .5
21:20 < kanzure> louipc: one of our projects is a submicron resolution laser cutter for rapid prototyping of microfluidic chips
21:20 < delinquentme> it just seems like a really simple solution
21:21 < delinquentme> also louipc i think that depends on how well the printer is setup
21:21 < kanzure> i'm not really interested in reprap's software
21:21 < louipc> kanzure: how bout laser sintering?
21:21 < kanzure> i think linuxcnc is fine
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21:21 < kanzure> louipc: what material?
21:22 < kanzure> btw, if you're unfamiliar with this technology.. http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/
21:22 < delinquentme> so its a software issue?
21:22 < kanzure> it's not a software issue
21:22 < diginet> so, I was going some research on plant-based proteinaceous fibers
21:22 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
21:22 < diginet> and I came across this abomination: http://heartsleevesblog.com/2011/11/15/so-silky-its-milky/ [-]
21:22 < diginet> "According to the Daily Mail, QMilch is the first man-made fibre produced entirely without chemicals."
21:23 < kanzure> "the daily mail" is not reputable
21:23 < diginet> I don't know what's worse, using hte Daily Mail as a source, or not understanding that CHEMICALS ENCOMPASSES ANYTHING MADE OF ATOMS YOU DOLT
21:23 < kanzure> and people should stop reading that site
21:23 < louipc> kanzure: I dunno, steel, aluminum, tungsten, titanium
21:23 < diginet> oh I know
21:23 < kanzure> louipc: ah, no.
21:23 < kanzure> louipc: we're doing pdms and acrylic and maybe glass
21:23 < louipc> from powdered medium
21:24 < diginet> "But wait, there’s more.  Apparently the amino acids in the protein are antibacterial, anti-ageing and can help regulate blood circulation and body temperature."
21:24 < diginet> what. . .
21:24 < kanzure> well, i guess i have seen sls of plastic before
21:24 < diginet> the stupid. . .it hurts
21:24 < kanzure> louipc: i haven't considered it for this case, but i'm familiar with sls
21:24 < delinquentme> diginet, im with you
21:24 < delinquentme> its right up there with people not eating GMO crops
21:24 < diginet> I'm all for sustainability, but finding information of the topic is so hard
21:25 < diginet> *on
21:25 < diginet> that isn't this kind of woo
21:25 < delinquentme> give me a threshold of GMO and well talk
21:25 < diginet> I'm sick ZOMG CHEMICUHLS R BAD
21:25 < louipc> kanzure: ah right
21:26 < diginet> anyway
21:26 < louipc> delinquentme: I think the problem with the rep rap is the process itself.. it's extrusion
21:26 < diginet> I had sort of a cool idea, as a side project to spider silk.  Apparently, there are fibers made from reconsituted soy protein extract
21:26 < diginet> so they sort of mirror the properties of animal fibers
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21:27 < delinquentme> louipc, i dont follow
21:27 < delinquentme> you're saying by definition the process has issues?
21:27 < diginet> Since duckweed has similar protein content as soy does, it should be possible to make fibers from duckweed protein extract by a similar process
21:27 < louipc> yeah you're just dragging about a long noodle
21:27 < delinquentme> louipc, I still dont follow
21:28 < delinquentme> you're saying that that cant work structurally?
21:28 < delinquentme> and for kanzure application im simply saying to build upon the gantry controls
21:28 < louipc> well not if you want to build layers the way it's being done
21:28 < kanzure> 10 micron 3D printing isn't really useful.. just use photolithography like any other sane person
21:28 < louipc> if you were pushing the plastic through a die to form an extruded shape that would be fine
21:29 < diginet> IMO, the best 3d printer would work like a laser printer
21:29 < kanzure> the reprap gantry is not useful for this
21:29 < louipc> same is done with aluminum in industry
21:29 < diginet> replace the toner with the target material
21:29 < diginet> print in layers
21:29 < delinquentme> louipc, I think the real question here is .. what tolerances can this print tech meet
21:29 < delinquentme> sure im not making planes out of it
21:29 < delinquentme> but can it serve to make chess pieces? sure
21:29 < louipc> delinquentme: yeah but look at the surface finish
21:30 < kanzure> chess pieces are thousands of times larger than what we're building
21:30 < delinquentme> how about something more complex / structurally testing
21:30 < delinquentme> kanzure, that was @ louipc
21:30 < kanzure> yes i know
21:30 < delinquentme> what about it? its got streaks
21:30 < delinquentme> can that work reliably as a coat hanger?
21:31 < delinquentme> people make reliable whistles out of it
21:31 < delinquentme> so the trick is just finding the limits or the threshold of application its useful for
21:31 < delinquentme> dont build monster truck roll cages
21:31 < delinquentme> instead build toy car bumpers
21:31 < delinquentme> kanzure, i just wanted to make sure you knew that scaling could be done in software
21:31 < louipc> ok.. but are you gonna want one machine for cheap stuff, then one machine to do better stuff?
21:32 < kanzure> haha don't worry about me and software :3
21:32 < delinquentme> so long as you got that thats all I really needed to convey :D
21:32 < delinquentme> check
21:32 < louipc> or just one machine period
21:32 < delinquentme> louipc, what am I building?
21:32 < delinquentme> are there cost efficiencies in 1 machine over the other?
21:32 < delinquentme> ( probably )
21:32 < delinquentme> cost or other efficiencies
21:32 < louipc> isn't the point of reprap to print whatever you want/need at the moment?
21:33 < louipc> it costs less to have one machine than two machines
21:33 < delinquentme> repraps you can get in smalle resolution .. but the same volume takes longer to print
21:33 < louipc> unless you really need two to increase your production
21:33 < delinquentme> higher resolution ... with a smaller filament
21:33 < delinquentme> so then yeah its about the application right
21:34 < louipc> sure, but what if you can use a machine for both applications
21:35 < louipc> and whatever tolerance/rigidity requirements you need you set for that application
21:36 < louipc> that ribbed finish is a structural weakness, and it'll always be there with extrusion
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21:43 < kanzure> hi _F7_
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21:43 < delinquentme> louipc, true @ the finish
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21:43 < delinquentme> but thats like saying ... dont use concrete .. it cant handle extension forces
21:44 < delinquentme> im saying " Pick an appropriate application "
21:44 < louipc> delinquentme: but yeah I guess it's for fun stuff for now...
21:44 < delinquentme> =]
21:44 < delinquentme> yeah
21:44 < delinquentme> so far
21:44 < louipc> guess it'll help people work out other aspects of the machine
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21:44 < louipc> until they figure out a better additive method
21:44 < louipc> :P
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21:47 < delinquentme> louipc, there is actually a funded startup whos working on cheap accurate 3d printing
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21:58 < louipc> delinquentme: who's that?
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21:59 < delinquentme> form something
22:02 < delinquentme> ALRIGHT
22:02 < delinquentme> later all
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22:02 < kanzure> http://phdcomics.com/movie/ but sadly they are charging for it
22:08 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
22:10 < kanzure> "anatomy of a professor's homepage" http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1487
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22:12 < kanzure> "reported sightings of our professor" is also strangely accurate http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1482
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22:36 < Mokbortolan_> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-04/uos-ntm041912.php
22:36 < Mokbortolan_> the team describes a new method for making medical devices called nerve guidance conduits or NGCs.
22:38 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
22:39 < Mokbortolan_> so, could you just "hijack" a nerve with this?
22:39 < Mokbortolan_> and make it go somewhere else entirely
22:43 < Mokbortolan_> ooh
22:43 < Mokbortolan_> I wonder if you could a channel where they'd have to grow through fine channels with some kind of monitoring ability
22:44 < Mokbortolan_> ^make
22:44 < Mokbortolan_> you could just make a cut-out
22:45 < Mokbortolan_> though, you'd have to be reeaaally sure everything gets back together properly...
22:48 < diginet> is there any way to attack the side group in amino acid residues to convert them to glycine?
22:48 < diginet> (that's practical)
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23:23 < kanzure> http://www.sciencescape.org/news/launchstory
23:23 < kanzure> "21 million papers in 25,000 journals"
23:23 < kanzure> meh just a landing page
23:23 < kanzure> nevermind
23:24 < kanzure> http://www.pythonanywhere.com/ random python shells
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23:29 < diginet> kanzure, I had an idea I want to try on spider silk, that, if it were to work, would make the production of it super simple
23:30 < diginet> basically, I've been reading a little more, and apparently, according to several papers, there is a large constituency of people who argue that its properties lie more in the spinning/extrusion process than the exact sequence
23:32 < diginet> anyhow, if the sequence only has to be approximate, I could put glycine and trace amino acids in a vat, and then alanine in another vat, and follow protocols for peptide synthesis, but, since the make up, not the sequence is important, I can just let it happen, then after glycine rich chains and alanine chains have been built up independently, combine the two
23:32 < diginet> let it happen, without worrying about protection for ensuring a specific sequence
23:33 < diginet> if this works, make the spider silk would be as simple as buying whey extract at a health food store
23:33 < Mokbortolan_> or you could glue it to a spider's abdomen and use its ductwork as a print head
23:33 < Mokbortolan_> a tube
23:33 < diginet> hahahahaahah
23:33 < diginet> something tells me that wouldn't work so well :P
23:33 < Mokbortolan_> it would probably resent it
23:34 < diginet> hah
23:34 < diginet> anyhow, I
23:35 < diginet> I'm trying to find a way to chemically induce hydrolysis of the peptide bonds so I can get individual amino acids
23:37 < yashgaroth> oh god there's so many things wrong here I don't know where to begin
23:38 < diginet> ?
23:39 < yashgaroth> sequence is still important even if exact sequence isn't
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23:39 < diginet> of course
23:39 < diginet> but I'm talking on the scale of the individual "sentences"
23:39 < yashgaroth> so am I
23:39 < kanzure> yashgaroth: i'm about to sleep, but let me know if i should /kick diginet out of the channel for being too wrong
23:40 < yashgaroth> no no at least he's not a conspiracy nutjob
23:40 < diginet> am I disliked now?
23:40 < kanzure> diginet: i hate everyone equally
23:40 < diginet> confused
23:40 < yashgaroth> it's just you seem to completely change your approach every three hours
23:41 < kanzure> 'night
23:41 < diginet> yashgaroth, oh I know, it's my OCD kicking in (I hate using that, because the term has been so marginalized, but it's true). I always second guess myself
23:42 < diginet> I know I probably sound horribly harebrained and nutty
23:42 < yashgaroth> like you're going down the list of options and deciding the easier ones won't work, but based on maybe a paper you read or a website blurb
23:43 < diginet> that's a bit of an exagerration, I've only been reading published papers, but I see what you mean
23:44 < yashgaroth> try insect cell expression first, or even just dissolving spider webs and trying to reconstitute them
23:45 < yashgaroth> there's a reason no one uses insect expression or peptide synthesis unless absolutely necessary
23:45 < yashgaroth> err, in vitro expression not insect*
23:46 < klafka1> diginet i obviously have no idea but i suspect even if hte sequence of peptides isn't that important the folding and conformation of them is, as well as the general distribution of various sidechains/charges/etc...
23:46 < diginet> I guess my problem is obsession with having every detail thoroughly described in a process. Culturing cells is obviously not like performing a chemical synthesis with stoichiometric amounts
23:47 < diginet> klafka1, oh yeah definitely
23:47 < yashgaroth> hahaha if you want every detail, biology is deffo not for you
23:47 < diginet> hahaha yep
23:47 < kanzure> your first plan will absolutely fail
23:48 < kanzure> and you will debug it about 100 times before it works
23:48 < kanzure> this is how modern biology works :/
23:48 < diginet> yeah :(
23:48 < yashgaroth> we're reverse engineering an immensely complex system, and it's barely even robust
23:49 < diginet> I was reading obsessively about aeroponics a couple months ago, I just couldn't deal with the fact that the parameter space is not even vaguelly fully fleshed out
23:49 < klafka1> modern biology in a nutshell - a fuckton of assumptions to find a correlation that will go in a pile that will hopefully be big enough to one day produce reasonable evidence that there is some kind of causation
23:49 < diginet> hahah
23:50 < diginet> very true
23:50  * kanzure sleepz
23:50 < diginet> I guess I'm just a weirdo, lol
23:52 < diginet> anyway, regardless of whether it turns out as I would want, I still think regenerated protein fibers are interesting
23:52 < klafka1> what does regenerated mean?
23:53 < diginet> well for example the protein from soybeans in extracted and spun into a fiber that's called "soybean silk"
23:54 < yashgaroth> you mean native soybean proteins, or transgenic spider silk components?
23:54 < diginet> no, native soybean proteins
23:55 < yashgaroth> well sure if you denature any proteins and extrude them, they'll stick together in a string
23:55 < diginet> they do more than that, but yeah, that's the general idea
23:55 < diginet> unfortunately they kind of suck
23:56 < yashgaroth> no they suck terribly, compared to a keratin or collagen or any other protein that's evolved to be useful in that shape
23:58 < diginet> yeah
23:58 < yashgaroth> the secondary structure is the important part - even if the interstitial portions can vary in size and composition, you still need defined segments that stick between the proteins
23:59 < diginet> what I'm saying is that, the basic structure of spider silk is strings of alanines interspersed among amorphous glycine rich regions, so shouldn't it be possible to randomly grow the glycine rich chains and alanine chains in seperate reactors, then combine the mixture so that the two peptide varities will attach to one another to form longer peptides?
--- Log closed Mon Apr 23 00:00:10 2012