--- Log opened Tue Apr 24 00:00:45 2012 --- Day changed Tue Apr 24 2012 00:00 -!- Guest14283 is now known as Coornail 00:21 < Utopiah> http://www.lboro.ac.uk/research/amrg/ via http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wI2WxR2D5M 00:31 -!- SolG [~Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:33 -!- _sol_ [Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:29 -!- louipc [~louipc@archlinux/fellow/louipc] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:29 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:29 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:33 -!- kvltist [~Kvltist@p5B33FA1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:54 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: thylblond 03:00 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:20 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@87.114.248.1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:20 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@87.114.248.1] has quit [Changing host] 03:20 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:01 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-18-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:26 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:30 -!- thylane [~userid@c-24-61-126-211.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:57 -!- kvltist [~Kvltist@p5B33FA1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:09 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-78.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:09 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-78.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:09 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:11 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has quit [Quit: bbl] 06:17 -!- jennicide [jen@173-18-211-34.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:19 -!- jenzebubble [jen@173-18-211-34.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:20 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:42 -!- SolG is now known as _sol_ 06:43 <@kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_Resources is apparently doing a webcast soon 06:43 -!- jenzebubble [jen@173-18-211-34.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:46 -!- jennicide [jen@173-18-211-34.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:07 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-80-91.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:17 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@safekick-americas-2.consolidated.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:23 -!- DrOctothrope [~DrOctothr@107.42.41.48] has quit [Quit: Bye] 07:23 -!- DrOctothrope [~DrOctothr@107.42.41.48] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:30 -!- Urchin is now known as oo 07:30 -!- oo is now known as Urchin 07:36 -!- DrOctothrope [~DrOctothr@107.42.41.48] has quit [Quit: Bye] 07:37 -!- DrOctothrope [~DrOctothr@107.42.41.48] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:37 <@kanzure> beepity boop 07:39 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:41 -!- jennicide [jld@173-18-211-34.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:44 -!- jenzebubble [jen@173-18-211-34.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:49 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:54 -!- klafka1 [~klafka@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:58 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:10 <@kanzure> opencascade 6.5.3 is up.. http://git.dev.opencascade.org/gitweb/?p=occt.git 08:21 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@213.37.52.228.static.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:26 -!- jenzebubble [jen@173-18-211-34.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:26 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:27 <@kanzure> what a weird thing to spot on forbes- http://www.forbes.com/sites/techonomy/2012/04/23/dont-call-it-crowdsourcing-quirky-ceo-ben-kaufman-brings-invention-to-the-masses/ 08:27 <@kanzure> the article isn't particularly unique or novel, but 08:27 <@kanzure> "If you talk to the MakerBot guys or any gung-ho, 3D printing motherfuckers, they’re going to tell you every kitchen in America will have a 3D printer and if people need a fork they’re going to print a fork." 08:27 <@kanzure> anyway, i haven't heard them described as "3d printing motherfuckers" 08:27 <@kanzure> especially by forbes? 08:28 -!- jennicide [jld@173-18-211-34.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:28 <@kanzure> heh.. "Darth Vader and Son" http://www.guardianbookshop.co.uk/BerteShopWeb/viewProduct.do?ISBN=9781452106557 08:28 <@kanzure> "What if Darth Vader took an active role in raising his son? What if 'Luke, I am your father' was just a stern admonishment from an annoyed dad? In this hilarious and sweet comic reimagining, Vader is a dad like any other - except with all the baggage of being a Dark Lord of the Sith." 08:30 < delinquentme> UI designers in here?? 08:30 < delinquentme> http://mycolorscreen.com/popular/ 08:30 < delinquentme> ^^ gorgeous 08:31 < delinquentme> hio kanzure :D~~~~~~~~~ 08:31 < AlonzoTG> . 08:31 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:41 < delinquentme> http://maximrevin.blogspot.com/2010/07/celistic-concept-art.html 08:51 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:58 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr2.inka-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:58 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr2.inka-online.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:58 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:59 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@129.21.144.168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:59 <@kanzure> delinquentme: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xwJPkEhc58I/TDj4SoI-h3I/AAAAAAAAAEg/6iskGjOz-34/s640/%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%823+copy1+%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BB.jpg 09:00 <@kanzure> that one doesn't make sense 09:00 <@kanzure> why would you point giant flamethrowers at your city 09:01 < nmz787> maybe that planet is really cold 09:01 < ThomasEgi> doesnt every government do this? 09:10 < delinquentme> haha 09:10 < delinquentme> current BG: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xwJPkEhc58I/TDj3Ggp_dyI/AAAAAAAAACw/TfVs581k-kI/s1600/%D1%81%D1%85%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B0+web.jpg 09:13 < nmz787> what are these imgs from? 09:13 < nmz787> look pretty cool 09:16 <@kanzure> "It sounds totally insane, but I read somewhere that the backers just bought a bunch of platinum puts and then announced their plans to mine it from space..." 09:17 <@kanzure> more details on those puts: http://venturebeat.com/2012/04/23/planetary-resources-asteroid-mining-2/ 09:17 <@kanzure> "may have been joking when he made these plans to buy options" aw :( 09:19 <@kanzure> "In fact, a lot of the exploration journeys of the 1800s were financed by advertisers and newspapers looking to sell newspapers." what? 09:20 < nmz787> wow 09:30 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41 < ThomasEgi> sounds like modern advertizers would want to place advertisement on mars in order to sponsor some launches? 09:41 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:53 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:00 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:01 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:08 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:12 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.184.107] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:17 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:18 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:18 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:19 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:37 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:42 -!- AdrianG is now known as aAdrianG 10:44 < diginet> am I the only one highly skeptical of the feasibility of this so-called asteroid mining company? 10:46 < ThomasEgi> if you can get a silver asteroid. it sure pays off. 10:47 < ThomasEgi> but.. generally, the idea is rather off-limits if you ask me 10:47 < diginet> Eric Schmidt, Lary Page, James Cameron may be rich, but they are by no means scientists 10:47 < Mokbortolan_> off limits? 10:47 < Mokbortolan_> by what rules? 10:47 < diginet> I think he means implausible 10:47 < diginet> off-limits of practical ROI 10:47 < ThomasEgi> Mokbortolan_, by sane thinking 10:47 < Mokbortolan_> define "sane" 10:48 < Mokbortolan_> because to me it's perfectly sane 10:48 < Mokbortolan_> so perhaps we differ on the meanings of some of the words we share 10:48 < ThomasEgi> Mokbortolan_, reaching a goal with reasonable effort 10:49 < Mokbortolan_> oh 10:49 <@kanzure> well, are you talking about *these* people, or the concept of asteroid mining in general 10:49 < Mokbortolan_> I think there are some approaches that might work 10:49 < ThomasEgi> if the goal is to harvest some kind of material. i guess shooting a rocket into space to drop a rock back onto earth is a lot more effort than searching the same material on earth 10:49 < Mokbortolan_> ThomasEgi: assuming that's their goal 10:49 < diginet> anything that involves "hunting space rocks" by definition is not sane, at least not at this day and age 10:49 <@kanzure> no, mining on earth is very difficult 10:49 <@kanzure> the legal contracts alone are a headache 10:49 -!- SDr [SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:49 < Mokbortolan_> diginet: that's a subjective notion 10:50 <@kanzure> then there's the practical issues- you can't just explode the earth 10:50 <@kanzure> diginet: you don't have to hunt them.. they are tracked pretty well 10:50 < Mokbortolan_> I think that's a named fallacy 10:50 < diginet> kanzure, sure, but you have to find ones which contain anything of value 10:50 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@safekick-americas-2.consolidated.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 10:50 < diginet> which is not trivial 10:50 <@kanzure> ok. so now your argument is that taking core samples from asteriods is too annoying ? 10:50 < ThomasEgi> i would agree, if their goal is to increase the size of their epenis, they sure do an excellent job 10:51 <@kanzure> ThomasEgi: sounds like you're jealous? 10:51 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, not a bit 10:51 < diginet> My argument is that it's a struggle to get a man in LEO, how the hell are we going to pull an asteroid to Earth? 10:51 -!- aAdrianG is now known as AdrianG 10:51 < Mokbortolan_> I would think sending up little robots to nudge the asteroid into a lagrange point isn't impossible, or impractical 10:51 <@kanzure> okay. so i brought up a reasonable argument for why mining on earth sucks. and your counter argument is Penis? 10:51 < Mokbortolan_> what makes you think we're going to be taking it onto the earth? 10:51 < diginet> kanzure, no his point is that it is a massive PR move 10:51 <@kanzure> who cares about PR 10:52 < diginet> remember Bill Gate's satellite internet project? 10:52 < diginet> yeah 10:52 < diginet> neither do I 10:52 < Mokbortolan_> this might be one of those endeavors that generates its own market 10:52 <@kanzure> ok, so anyway. your argument is that core samples are too hard to take? 10:52 < diginet> *Gates' 10:52 <@kanzure> and ThomasEgi's argument is penis? 10:52 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, if i can carve my own underground city with materials i can get on ebay. how hard can it be for a multibillion dollar jointventure to dig up some rocks 10:52 <@kanzure> thanks for the discussion guys. 10:52 < diginet> no, you're twisting our words 10:52 < diginet> there is /massive/ understatement of the difficulty here 10:53 <@kanzure> ThomasEgi: when you have that much money, everyone wants a piece of you- all of the sudden, the people living above ground will clam ownership of your tunnels 10:53 <@kanzure> claim 10:53 -!- SDr [SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:53 < Mokbortolan_> which is why the only solution is to build the city on the ocean floor 10:53 < diginet> not to mention, massive influxes of metals would cause their devaluation 10:53 < Mokbortolan_> and power it with volcanic vents 10:53 < diginet> something which their press release does not acknowledge 10:53 <@kanzure> nobody reads press releases 10:53 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, my point is: i dont need money to find rocks on earth. so why woludnt they be able with money. and why would they prefer spacerocks if not for the lulz 10:54 < Mokbortolan_> except reporters prone to hyperbole 10:54 < diginet> so, their own claims on the matter don't count? 10:54 < diginet> bringing resources to Earth does not magically "boost the world GDP" 10:54 <@kanzure> ThomasEgi: can you clarify.. do you believe that you can get the same returns for less money, and if so, can you explain 10:54 < diginet> that's not how economics works 10:54 <@kanzure> your argument was with asteroid mining, not their understanding of economics 10:54 < diginet> they go hand in hand 10:54 < diginet> their impetus is based on misunderstandings 10:55 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, if their goal is to get recources, then they do a horrible job. 10:55 <@kanzure> that's not what i asked :( 10:55 < diginet> But by all means, continue fetishizing billionaires, maybe if you're lucky you'll get to be a janitor for one of them 10:55 <@kanzure> damn 10:55 <@kanzure> having a conversation with either of you is impossible 10:55 -!- diginet was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [diginet] 10:55 -!- ThomasEgi was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [ThomasEgi] 10:55 <@kanzure> ok now i feel better 10:55 -!- diginet [~diginet@adsl-69-153-135-2.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:56 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by ChanServ 10:57 < diginet> kanzure, in short: it is /possible/ but I find it awfully hard to believe it would provide any reasonable amount of ROI. People do not go into ventures like these unless they believe they're going to profit; they don't do it "for the lulz." What I am saying is that unless they discovered a wad of antimatter or something, with current technology it highly unlikely one could turn any sort of profit from asteroid mining 10:59 < diginet> maybe I'm wrong, and the billionaire's club is doing it for fun, or science, or whatever. I think that would be awesome. I also think it's a pipe dream. 10:59 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@129.21.144.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:59 < kanzure> there are many ways to profit from asteroid mining, including reusable launch vehicles 11:01 < diginet> perhaps 11:01 < katsmeow-afk> what if the minerals on asteroids were purer, where aluminum wasn't bauxite, iron wasn't red rust, and so much metal was needed to colonise the moon or Mars that it was impossible to pay for it to be lifted off Earth? 11:01 < diginet> well if we were at a point of colonizing either anytime soon, then we could talk 11:02 < katsmeow-afk> i think we aren't because we can't, for lack of materials to build with 11:02 < diginet> as I understand it, their looking for platinoids, which occur naturally pure 11:03 < katsmeow-afk> needles inhaystacks then 11:03 < diginet> I dunno, I'm just very wary of the sort of I hero worship I see on the internet, of people, especially those at Google. Demagoguery and megalomania never end well 11:03 * katsmeow-afk nods 11:04 < kanzure> i haven't seen that much hero worship in here, except from you bringing it up 11:04 < kanzure> please stop? 11:04 < diginet> Pretty sure I've never brought that up 11:04 < kanzure> you've mentioned similar issues in the past 11:04 < diginet> and pretty sure it's highly relevant to the topic at hand? 11:04 < kanzure> why? if we get sufficiently enthusiastic about peter thiel, do you think he will somehow decide to fund you? 11:04 < kanzure> come on man 11:05 < diginet> There's nothing wrong with turning profits, but call a spade a spade. Why, instead of CEOs announcing how their going to increae efficiency, does it now have to be "changing the world?" 11:05 < kanzure> are you just being angsty 11:05 < diginet> I don't want him to fund me? And I don't even know who Peter Thiel is? 11:05 < kanzure> he's a billionaire who you're complaining about- remember, this is the paypal mafia 11:06 < diginet> No I'm saying people give these guys messiah complices 11:06 < kanzure> okay.. and you don't want to participate in it? 11:06 < diginet> there's nothing wrong with being rich, but acting like you're some sort of freaking savior is at best, disgenuous 11:06 < diginet> how is discussing it "participating in it?" 11:07 < kanzure> it's like if we were discussing christianity all the time in here 11:07 < kanzure> that's not what we're about 11:07 < kanzure> don't bring that fight in here :P 11:08 < diginet> except christianity has nothing to do with anything, the rhetoric of those funding things that interest those of us here, is 11:08 < kanzure> why would it be ? 11:08 < kanzure> sorry, why would their rhetoric be of interest to us? 11:08 * katsmeow-afk is NOT having a problem understanding diginet atm 11:08 < diginet> because it speaks volumes as to the validity of their claims? 11:09 < kanzure> validity of their claims that they have invested money? 11:09 < diginet> no, the validity of their claims that their business plan is even vaguely feasible 11:09 < kanzure> it wouldn't matter? they already have the money to go do it 11:09 < diginet> if someone selling something were ourright lying, wouldn't you want to know? Sure, they're not selling anything for money, but they are selling an idea 11:09 < diginet> so to speak 11:10 < diginet> and a lot of people are buying into, blindly 11:10 < kanzure> lots of people buy into lots of things... sigh 11:10 < diginet> that disturbs me, and I hope, other people as well 11:11 < diginet> so what is your point? should we just all masturbate to the thought of james cameron driving a space ship and grabbing an asteroid with a lasso? 11:11 < kanzure> i've pretty much ignored his announcement because i can't reasonably act on it in any conceivable way 11:11 < kanzure> masturbation doesn't sound like a good idea here either 11:11 < kanzure> i suppose i could start an asteroid mining simulation company, who knows 11:12 < diginet> because that's what it sounds like you're asking me to do: accept claims that vaguely align with the already nebulous agenda or transhumanism unquestioningly 11:12 < kanzure> i'm not asking you to accept his claims 11:12 < diginet> so what is your contention then? 11:12 < diginet> I asked, "Is anyone else skeptical?" 11:12 < diginet> is that not reasonable? 11:12 < kanzure> that your notion of hero worship is bogus, and you shouldn't be yelling at me for worshipping them 11:12 < diginet> I'm not yelling at you 11:12 < kanzure> because i don't. and not many others in here do 11:13 < diginet> I'm saying there is a general trend 11:13 < kanzure> yes you are- you're ranting like crazy dude 11:13 < diginet> I didn't even say here 11:13 < kanzure> there's no trend like that in here at all 11:13 < diginet> There is a trend, among those interested in such things 11:13 < diginet> as always, there are exceptions 11:13 < katsmeow-afk> i expect to see China land on the moon, send out small cheap robotic craft from there to spend the next 10-30 years to check out and ease potentially profitable asteroids to where they can more easily take advantage of them,,, in other words, do what they have been doing on earth 11:14 < kanzure> ok. i just don't see any utility in you ranting about that trend in here. there's no positive action that can come from that. 11:14 * katsmeow-afk sees no yelling or ranting, but also no communication 11:15 < diginet> Fine, but conversely, it seems to me you meet skepticism with disapproval 11:15 < diginet> when it conflicts with your interests 11:15 < kanzure> i think being skeptical about PR is okay, but you shouldn't think PR is supposed to be facts in the first place.... 11:15 < diginet> (i.e. with the plausibility of things like mind uploading occuring anytime soon) 11:16 < kanzure> brain scanning is a fact, not just a "plausability" 11:16 < katsmeow-afk> he is not thinking PR is facts, but he is saying others do 11:16 < kanzure> other people do lots of crazy things.. why is that relevant 11:16 < diginet> brain scanning is nowhere near the same as mind uploading 11:16 < kanzure> *shrug* if you believe in a duality between minds and brains, maybe 11:16 < diginet> that's like saying taking a picture of a bird is the same as building one froms scatch 11:16 < diginet> no 11:16 < diginet> I'm saying the brain is much, much more complicated than you give it credit for 11:17 < kanzure> you have no idea how much credit i give it :p 11:17 < katsmeow-afk> i would say duplicating it is not the same as uploading it 11:17 < diginet> If James Cameron says he's going to mine platinum from asteroids and boost the world's GDP, is that not indicative of what he believes? 11:17 < diginet> katsmeow-afk, where do you house it then? 11:18 < kanzure> to clarify, yes, i do meet your PR boasting with disapproval. i fully admit this. 11:18 < katsmeow-afk> you house it whereever it was duplicated, but the original remains intact, unless you're doing a destructive copy 11:18 < diginet> if we better understood how the brain worked, it might be possible right now to store brains 11:18 < diginet> but I don't think "running the program" so to speak is anywhere near 11:19 < kanzure> there are very interesting results from directly scanning in brain tissues 11:19 < kanzure> people have reconstructed the neural anatomy from these scans and run them in simulations 11:19 < katsmeow-afk> and there's more studies going on now to map brain prcesses related to thought 11:19 < kanzure> to a large extent, the costs of computing is still prohibitive 11:19 < kanzure> but that doesn't mean the scanning technology doesn't work 11:20 < diginet> let me put it this way: if you think simulating a working brain in a computer is anywhere near possible, you know nothing about neuroscience, computer science, or biology. Not saying you necesarily do (I suspect not). 11:20 < kanzure> have you read the whole brain emulation roadmap report? 11:20 < katsmeow-afk> but copying, molecule by molecule, my brain as it's running, so there's one version in the "housing facility", and there's the brain i am currently using, is not the same as uploading, because i won't exist in two places 11:21 < diginet> please, please tell me you don't think we're going to be able to emulate the brain soon 11:21 < kanzure> katsmeow-afk: there's been no molecule-by-molecule approach that has been proposed, really, except some diamondoid nanotech stuff that doesn't work yet.. 11:21 < kanzure> diginet: many regions of the brain are being emulated at the moment 11:21 < katsmeow-afk> kanzure, good, then i got the jump with my opinion first 11:21 < kanzure> diginet: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/brain-emulation-roadmap-report.pdf 11:21 < diginet> yeah that's just not true. We don't even have a good working model of the neuron yet 11:22 < diginet> you assume neural nets are indentical to actual neurons 11:22 < diginet> tehy're not 11:22 < kanzure> i hate ANNs 11:22 < diginet> they're mathematical apporixmations 11:22 < kanzure> i never said i liked them 11:22 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@213.37.52.228.static.user.ono.com] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] 11:22 < kanzure> no, i'm not talking about mathematical ANNs 11:22 < diginet> okay 11:22 < kanzure> jesus 11:22 < kanzure> you're impossible 11:22 < katsmeow-afk> diginet, i suspect there's enough computing resources spread around, that if networked together, they could emulate any brain 11:23 < diginet> katsmeow-afk, *maybe* 11:23 < diginet> but that's with the assumption we have enoug understanding of it 11:23 < kanzure> you'er wrong about our working models of neurons 11:23 < kanzure> you should go look at the models in ModelDB 11:23 < kanzure> but you won't, so i'm going to stop talking now 11:23 < katsmeow-afk> diginet, i agree, if anyone knew how to, but i suspect enough hardware exists 11:24 < diginet> kanzure, you're free to go against the overwhelming consensus of neuroscientists, psychologists, and anyone else with knowledge in that field. I for one, will not. 11:24 -!- jmil [~jmil@2607:f470:8:3148:7405:8cb5:117:1a8b] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:24 < katsmeow-afk> i need to go do more stuff irl 11:25 < kanzure> argument from authority.. you should just read the literature instead 11:25 < kanzure> or run the simulations yourself (and not the ANNs) 11:26 < diginet> argument from authority only refers to general authorities, i.e. if the President said it were impossible 11:26 < diginet> I trust that people smarter than either of us know what they're talking about 11:26 < katsmeow-afk> i had a bumper sticker once "Question Authority" 11:45 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:52 < kanzure> 20 domestic diy total, yikes 11:53 < kanzure> so let's see.. juul, _F7_, yashgaroth, maybe carl, myself, joseph, jacob, nmz787 11:59 -!- nuba_ is now known as nuba 12:06 < diginet> you know what does make me sad though? that carbon nanotubes are probably carcinogenic 12:06 < diginet> I had wanted to experiment with them before I learned of that 12:07 < diginet> maybe inorganic nanotubes are worth looking at? 12:18 -!- DrOctothrope [~DrOctothr@107.42.41.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:20 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:21 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:21 * Mokbortolan_ finds carbon nanotubes for a mere $36/g. 12:29 < diginet> I'd buy them if I weren't scare of getting mesothelioma 12:29 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-163-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:31 < diginet> I think those fibers that are spun from those nanoforest things would be really promising, if the CNTs weren't toxic 12:31 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:32 < eudoxia> last time I checked the toxicity of nanotubes was because of the capped endings getting inside cells 12:32 < eudoxia> isn't it possible to build 'flat', H-terminated nanotubes? 12:33 < diginet> I suppose you could also just physically coat them with some sort of resin 12:34 < diginet> unfortunately, according to a cursory search, inorganic nanotubes can be even worse 12:38 < kanzure> "Wow! I can't believe we've only ever mined 25 cubic feet of plat. " 12:39 < kanzure> math: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3882728 12:41 < diginet> I was thinking about a ridiculous idea the other day, on that subject: transmuting molybdenum-100 to platinoids. It's obviously unreleastic because of the energy requirements, but them there's also the issue of enriching the molybdenum 13:09 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-163-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: quit] 13:47 < kanzure> beepity boop 13:48 -!- technetium_s [~IceChat77@cpc6-colc7-2-0-cust154.7-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:52 < kanzure> huh, octopart is in new york 14:48 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:51 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-163-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:53 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.184.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.184.107] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:03 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.184.107] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:04 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.184.107] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:11 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.184.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:33 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:33 -!- rkos_ [~chatzilla@a88-113-144-253.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:34 -!- rkos [~chatzilla@a88-113-144-253.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:34 -!- rkos_ is now known as rkos 15:37 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.75.178] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:40 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:51 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.75.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:58 -!- SDr [SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:05 -!- rkos_ [~chatzilla@a88-113-144-253.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:06 -!- foalmt [~root@bas4-toronto02-1176006478.dsl.bell.ca] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:06 < foalmt> im making math sounds 16:06 < foalmt> you need a ramdisk and festival lite 16:06 < foalmt> http://ansistego.sf.net/molest4.py finds powers of 2 in powers of 12 16:06 < foalmt> http://ansistego.sf.net/plaything.py 16:06 -!- rkos [~chatzilla@a88-113-144-253.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ 16:06 < foalmt> just change the filename, the .txt in plaything.py 16:06 -!- foalmt was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [foalmt] 16:06 -!- rkos_ is now known as rkos 16:06 <@kanzure> man he's persistent 16:09 < ParahSailin> lol that crazy 16:13 -!- augur [~augur@wireless-206-196-166-30.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:24 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.75.178] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:24 -!- augur [~augur@wireless-206-196-166-30.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.75.178] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 16:25 -!- augur [~augur@wireless-206-196-166-30.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:26 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:27 -!- Cat4D [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:27 -!- augur [~augur@wireless-206-196-166-30.umd.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28 -!- augur [~augur@wireless-206-196-166-30.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:29 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:30 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 16:30 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-163-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: quit] 16:32 -!- kristianpaul [~kristianp@unaffiliated/kristianpaul] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:40 -!- technetium_s [~IceChat77@cpc6-colc7-2-0-cust154.7-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: It's a dud! It's a dud! It's a du...] 16:41 < strangewarp> damn, I wish flamoot weren't crazy 16:49 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.75.178] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:54 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-18-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:54 -!- kristianpaul [~kristianp@cl-498.udi-01.br.sixxs.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:02 -!- Cat4D [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:07 -!- SDr [SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:11 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:12 * n_bentha spreads his legs for this research: http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/332522/20120424/peng-scientists-clone-sheep-good-fat-worm.htm 17:25 -!- Cat4D [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:36 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:38 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:43 -!- augur [~augur@wireless-206-196-166-30.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:48 -!- Jora [~Jora@24-196-83-3.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:48 -!- Jora [~Jora@24-196-83-3.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:48 -!- Jora [~Jora@unaffiliated/jora] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:48 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:50 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.75.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-80-91.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:55 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:56 -!- Cat4D_ [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:03 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:12 -!- thylane [~userid@c-24-61-126-211.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 18:14 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:19 -!- Cat4D_ [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:19 -!- Cat4D [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:19 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-180-45.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:20 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:21 -!- kristianpaul [~kristianp@cl-498.udi-01.br.sixxs.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:22 -!- kristianpaul [~kristianp@unaffiliated/kristianpaul] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:22 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:26 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:26 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:35 < augur> anyone interested in collaborating on some experimental AI/cognition stuff? 18:35 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:36 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-180-45.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:38 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.75.178] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:38 -!- jmil [~jmil@2607:f470:8:3148:7405:8cb5:117:1a8b] has quit [Quit: jmil] 18:38 < skorket> augur, what kind of styuff? 18:39 < augur> well, i'd like to ultimately toy around with frame problem/planning/knowledge type stuff 18:40 < augur> right now im actually really tempted to do some MTurk experiments to see how real human brains approach some of these things 18:40 < Jora> there is a group on freenode doing some of that stuff already i think 18:41 < skorket> you had something specific in mind? 18:41 < augur> well i do have ideas for specifics, yeah, but im flexible 18:42 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by ChanServ 18:42 < augur> Jora: i dont doubt it! if you point me in that direction ill be sure to check out what they're doing 18:43 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:44 < Jora> augur: in ##si I think they are doing stuff that is similar to here 18:44 < Jora> I was in that channel a month or so ago i think 18:44 < kanzure> "When I first walked in, I saw a giant machine that makes hamburgers. And an electronic car. And a guitar with an app store. And a from-scratch coffee machine. It's truly amazing and IMO much more substantial than many other startups I know" 18:45 < Jora> I think this channel is probably more advanced in backgrounds and interests than that other one maybe 18:45 < kanzure> man, people have low expectations 18:45 < kanzure> for "amazing" hardware 18:45 < kanzure> a coffee machine is cool, but i dunno about calling it amazing 18:47 < skorket> you're watching the engineering guy? 18:47 < n_bentha> i wish i had an electric guitar 18:48 < augur> kanzure: a FROM SCRATCH coffee machine! 18:48 < augur> whatever that is 18:48 < kanzure> it probably means "it grinds beans" or "it's a kit to make a coffee grinder" 18:51 < augur> horrible 18:51 < augur> i hate those kinds of coffee machines 18:51 < augur> i want to grind beans myself so i know that i have the right grain size 18:53 < augur> ive actually hand separated ground coffee in two stages to ensure i had the perfectly sized grains for french press coffee 18:53 < augur> and then everything smaller got ground until it was dust and used to make ersatz turkish coffee 18:57 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:12 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:14 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:20 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:26 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:34 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:37 -!- Cat4D [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:37 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:50 < diginet> yashgaroth, I've been giving some thought to your advice, on trying to farm spiders 19:50 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.75.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:50 < yashgaroth> good 19:50 < diginet> I was thinking, what about a selective breeding program? 19:50 < yashgaroth> sure 19:51 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:52 < Jora> have some of your projects turned into graduate school work for you? 19:52 < Jora> You could breed 3 foot tarantulas , just kidding really 19:53 < _Sketch_> Or foxes. YAY 19:53 < _Sketch_> Cute, but not as useful. 19:54 < diginet> _Sketch_, okay, those foxes are AWESOME 19:54 < diginet> I wanted one for a long time, but they're very pricy 19:54 < diginet> Jora, hahahaha! I'm only 18, I wish though :) 19:55 < Jora> yeah the seem so cute and just like dogs (the tame Russian foxes i mean) 19:55 < diginet> and 3 foot tarantulas sounds terrifying 19:55 < diginet> Jora, yeah that's what I'm referring to 19:55 < diginet> they seem to have kind of the best aspects of both cats and dogs 19:55 < Jora> yeah they can use a litterbox 19:56 < Jora> i wish they werent so damned expensive 19:56 < diginet> indeed 19:56 < diginet> and, I would feel guilty, what with all the poor animals in shelters 19:56 < Jora> yeah 19:56 < diginet> that being said, I think that is one of the few "exotic" pets that isn't morally wrong to own 19:57 < Jora> if i ever have the space id like a white german sheperd 19:57 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:57 < diginet> To be fair, my idea of exotic pet is any animal which isn't domesticated, so technically speak the fox wouldn't be by my standards, but still 19:57 < Jora> yeah 19:57 < diginet> Jora, aww, I love german shepherds 19:57 < Jora> Ive never had one but my mom had a white one as a kid 19:58 < diginet> my favourite breed is the border collie. I'd love to own one, but it just wouldn't be fair to it, since I don't have the time or space 19:58 < Jora> they are high energy dogs one of my aunts had one and she always kept him kenneled outside poor thing was neglected and never really had a chance to run 19:58 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:59 < diginet> yeah, people think smart = easy to train 19:59 < diginet> I just want a bloody domesticated panda :P 20:00 < diginet> pandas, d'awwwww 20:01 < Jora> cute 20:01 < diginet> brb, planting bamboo forest in backyard in anticipation 20:05 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.75.178] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:12 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:18 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:24 -!- Jora [~Jora@unaffiliated/jora] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:48 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:51 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.75.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:02 < diginet> I think anelosimus is a good starting point for a "domesticated" spider 22:02 < Mariu> o/ 22:02 < diginet> they're social, and they spin cobwebs which (at least, seem to be) more massive due to their 3D structure 22:02 < Cat4D> http://obsama.com/obama.html synopsis of the executive order yesterday 22:03 < diginet> no politics please? 22:06 < diginet> anyway, I guess I would just select for the same things that bombyx mori was: fecundity, silk output, silk quality, etc 22:07 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ 22:07 -!- Cat4D was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [Cat4D] 22:08 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil] 22:17 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:27 <@kanzure> https://gist.github.com/25a38b9c5df048dcec4a 22:27 <@kanzure> ^ comments appreciated 22:27 <@kanzure> it's a small phantomjs library i've written (some state machine) 23:23 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:25 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:31 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:47 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:52 < sylph_mako> I just tried Quora hoping it would be a hivemind system one step up from reddit. It is not. They can't realize how much of a misstep it was making peoples topic subscriptions public information. That stuff is a description of everything you are. 23:52 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:52 < sylph_mako> ..on the other hand.. is it inherently wrong for the most powerful news system to require that to be public information? 23:54 < sylph_mako> It changes things, certainly.. 23:55 < sylph_mako> [it's comparable to your subreddit subscriptions.] --- Log closed Wed Apr 25 00:00:50 2012