--- Log opened Wed Apr 25 00:00:50 2012
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01:24 < diginet> do you mean hivemind as in collective knowledge of a bunch of users, or an echo chamber? Quora seemed pretty good last time I checked, but I haven't specifically looked into it.  Reddit, on the otherhand, due to its nature seems to just breed a bunch of insular, self-congratulatory cesspools
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02:37 < sylph_mako> collective knowledge. But it's a matter of perspective. The conditions beget each other.
02:38 < sylph_mako> I mean a good thing.
02:39 < sylph_mako> diginet, why by it's nature? I never thought it was inherent to reddit, just to the sorts it attracts at this point. And those sorts can be avoided.
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04:06 < strangewarp> I have tried to enjoy Reddit, and I have failed. But maybe the origin of this failure is not in me.
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05:16 < fenn> my heroic battle against the forces of openscad http://fennetic.net/irc/polar_screw_thread.png
05:20 < ThomasEgi> the profile looks a bit screwed?
05:21 < ThomasEgi> impressive none the les
05:21 < ThomasEgi> s
05:22 < fenn> i eyeballed it. will write a script to create the proper screw profile, after a long nap
05:24 < fenn> also i don't recommend "upgrading" to gnome 3
05:24 < fenn> even with fallback mode it has lost a lot
05:26 < ThomasEgi> hm. my upgrade plan goes from gnome2 to lxde, or an even lighter alternative. maybe a tiling window manager
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06:14 < phryk> ThomasEgi: I perrsonally use and like awesome :P
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06:14 < phryk> The only tiling wm that has a systray that I have been using so far.
06:23 < ThomasEgi> right now i am on gnome2 , compiz with tiling plugin
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08:00 <@kanzure> nmz787: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki
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08:04 < nmz787> k
08:05 < nmz787> what am i looking for?
08:07 <@kanzure> just at the recent updates there.
08:07 <@kanzure> also, it looks like their hostile takeover is complete: http://blog.makezine.com/2012/04/23/makes-exclusive-interview-with-alicia-gibb-president-of-the-open-source-hardware-association/
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08:10 <@kanzure> pfft they call themselves the open hardware community when talking with the IRS
08:10 <@kanzure> http://mach30online.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/1023-response-packet-7-20-11.pdf
08:11 < nmz787> so i guess we're a team/group for fbi presentations
08:12 <@kanzure> bleh these are the guys that did "open design engine"? that was pretty awful
08:12 <@kanzure> (redmine is nice, but "hosted project management" has been done to death)
08:12 <@kanzure> nmz787: dunno.
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08:13 < nmz787> well if this started thru diybio....
08:13 < nmz787> but is becoming probio
08:13 < nmz787> its fuzzy
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08:17 <@kanzure> nmz787: what, because there's money to spend?
08:18 < nmz787> we're looking to productize? commercialize? i almost have a degree?
08:20 <@kanzure> haa you will have to resolve that last one on your own :P
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08:20 <@kanzure> well, at the moment we're not commercialized
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08:20 <@kanzure> so far this is very much a DIY operation
08:21 < rdb> I'm about to order PTFE coated high grade cylindrical magnets, anyone want some?
08:21 <@kanzure> "Some programmers nicknamed the finished product LOL memory, for Little Old Lady memory."  "In 1967, binutils was a person."
08:22 < rdb> about 1.50 euros each
08:22 <@kanzure> apollo program source code http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/links.html
08:23 <@kanzure> "RCA 110A (Saturn ground computer) Mathematical Subroutine Manual.  Dimitri Marinakis (thanks Dimitri!) sent me this.  The ground computer which which the LVDC cooperated was an RCA 110A."
08:23 <@kanzure> ""Mathematical Subroutine Manual" sounds very exciting until you find that it means "multiplication", "division", "cosine", "sine", etc."
08:25 <@kanzure> can someone please write an agc assembler or emulator so that we can run apollo software?
08:26 <@kanzure> preferably in my browser
08:26 < nmz787> i think diy depends on end goal in this field, as our methods aren't really unconventional
08:27 < nmz787> we arent hoping to demo dna synth, we're hoping to improve and sell/license it later
08:28 < nmz787> i.e. it seems any company goes through this phase
08:28 < nmz787> vs just diy ppl doing it for fun/hobby
08:33 <@kanzure> but... if doing a project isn't biohacking, then what the heck is
08:35 < nmz787> i didnt say not biohacking, but with pro goals, not ending with a blog post then going back to our day jobs
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09:13 < n_bentha> http://bit.ly/diybionews2 hasn't had any updates recently
09:13 <@kanzure> i am a slacker
09:14 <@kanzure> do you have links to contribute :|
09:15 < n_bentha> sadly, no
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09:22 <@kanzure> "This isn’t just bad news for Shaw. Because his company is in the red, he has been unable to pull together the financing he needs to expand his factory in Little Elm. So he has partnered with Chinese companies, which put up money to build assembly lines in China in return for permission to produce his syringes for the Chinese market."
09:23 <@kanzure> "Fun fact: the actual programs in the spacecraft were stored in core rope memory, an ancient memory technology made by (literally) weaving a fabric/rope, where the bits were physical rings of ferrite material."
09:23 <@kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_rope_memory
09:24 < katsmeow-afk> i've seen those for sale on ebay
09:24 < ThomasEgi> well, those are rather robust
09:25 < ThomasEgi> back in the days there have been no other storage medium that could meet the requirements
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09:28 < katsmeow-afk> per the wikipedia page, the cores in rope "memory" were merely functionally, OR gates?
09:28 < katsmeow-afk> wow
09:29 < katsmeow-afk> i have such a thing made as a diode array upstairs somewhere
09:29 < katsmeow-afk> much easier to chage the program with diodes
09:29 < ThomasEgi> katsmeow-afk, that core memory workes on magnetic hysteresis iirc
09:30 < ThomasEgi> you can store data on it just fine
09:30 < katsmeow-afk> The signal from a word line wire passing through a given core is coupled to the bit line wire and interpreted as a binary "one" while a word line wire that bypasses the core is not coupled to the bit line wire and is read as a "zero". <<== no hysteresis involved, it's merely magnetic coupling
09:30 < katsmeow-afk> you are confusing the rope with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_core_memory
09:33 < ThomasEgi> that is the reading mechanics. but the working principle remains magnetic hysteresis
09:33 < Cat4D> Summary of Obama Executive Order 2012.04.23 suiciding western tech industry:  http://obsama.com/obama.html
09:34 < ThomasEgi> katsmeow-afk, it is illustrated in the diagramm on the right side
09:34 <@kanzure> Cat4D: please stop linking to that
09:34 < katsmeow-afk> not according to the definition of http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hysteresis
09:34 < katsmeow-afk> i see no diagram on the right
09:34 < ThomasEgi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ringkernspeicher_hysteresekurven.agr.png
09:35 < katsmeow-afk> that's for ==>> Diagram of the magnetic hysteresis curve for a magnetic memory core during a read operation.
09:36 <@kanzure> hooray for naming your links when they are awful
09:36 < ThomasEgi> i thought we were talking about magnetic core memory, right?
09:36 <@kanzure> katsmeow-afk gets points
09:36 < katsmeow-afk> strictly speaking, the rope core wasn't memory, the word line was woven thru various bit cores and enabled the bit by magnetic coupling
09:36 < katsmeow-afk> no, we were talking rope core
09:37 < katsmeow-afk> rope core is "programmed" by which wires are run thru which individual cores
09:37 < katsmeow-afk> it's rom, hard "programmed" as it's wired, but can be re-wired, and randomly accessed
09:38 < ThomasEgi> whupse. sory for messing those 2 up then
09:38 < ThomasEgi> i sorta jumped in as magnetic core memory was used in spacecrafts for quite a while
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09:47 < n_bentha> i'd want one of these for my labs
09:47 < n_bentha> a plasma sterilizer
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09:54 < n_bentha> how come labs don't have plasma sterilizers?
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09:55 < ParahSailin> its new
09:55 < ParahSailin> where do i get a plasma sterilizer
09:56 < n_bentha> apparently you can make one?
09:56 < n_bentha> v
09:56 < n_bentha> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/business/14novel.html?_r=1
09:57 < ParahSailin> so you've answered your question
09:57 < ParahSailin> maybe ill build one for my lab
10:02 < n_bentha> they've got some commercial sanitizers already
10:02 < n_bentha> this shit is 2 years old, so i'm not quite sure why they haven't started production at all
10:02 < ParahSailin> probably because patents
10:02 < ParahSailin> abolish intellectual poverty
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10:05 < n_bentha> probably because of the medical supply industry
10:05 < n_bentha> shutting it down
10:06 < ParahSailin> fisher, vwr, bd, one of them probably bought the patent
10:06 < n_bentha> they probably would lose too much money on their alcohol / Cl sanitizers
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10:06 < n_bentha> and their moisturizers
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10:07 < n_bentha> bloody corporations
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10:30 < ParahSailin> that hand/glove sanitizer is pretty cool
10:30 < ParahSailin> that would be a very clean tissue culture suite
10:30 < ParahSailin> no wet alcohol all over the place
10:31 < n_bentha> yup. i first saw one in use in some japanese greenhouse
10:31 < n_bentha> all high-tech
10:31 < ParahSailin> no shit, so they are commercialized
10:32 < n_bentha> maybe in japan?
10:33 < n_bentha> but there hasn't been any recent news about it...
10:33 < ParahSailin> what voltage would that device require, is there a real video of it working?
10:34 < ParahSailin> intuitively it seems like the electricity required to make lightning arcs would hurt
10:35 < katsmeow-afk> i didn't see the url, is it just a way of making and delivering localised ozone?
10:35 < n_bentha> the video i saw was on bbc
10:35 < n_bentha> but it was years ago
10:38 < n_bentha> here is one that is for medical instruments: http://www.tuttnauer.com/products/medical-autoclaves/medical-clinics-or/plazmax
10:38 < katsmeow-afk> ah, after reading the url, i see why they have not been commercialised int he usa, according to EPA they make too many pollutants
10:39 < katsmeow-afk> while they won't hurt your hands or feet, they will hurt your lungs by the same mechanism they kill otehr living things
10:41 < n_bentha> i thought there were no pollutants?
10:41 < katsmeow-afk> i saw a hospital built such that the exhaust pipes of ambulances poured pollutants directly at air intakes for the building (including the surgery and SICU), and that was more acceptable than operating an ozone generator in the ducts to kill bacteria and molds
10:41 < n_bentha> "No hazardous or odourous emissions"
10:42 < katsmeow-afk> not hazardous to the skin, no
10:42 < katsmeow-afk> plasma/arcs disassociate molecules, making free oxygen, which recombines as O3, and the article mentions peroxides generated
10:43 < katsmeow-afk> oxones/peroxides kill ung cells on contact
10:43 < ParahSailin> you know that bullshit, because catalytic converters turn nox and ozone back into nitrogen and oxygen
10:43 < ParahSailin> its pretty easy to deal with those
10:44 < n_bentha> couldn't you just have a fan that moves air from the back of the unit to the front and down towards a catalytic converter then?
10:45 < katsmeow-afk> umm,, sure, go for it
10:45 < ParahSailin> repeal the epa
10:46 < n_bentha> so it's pretty easy not to breathe in the bad stuff, katsmeow
10:47 < katsmeow-afk> ok, go for it
10:49 < n_bentha> "B
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10:50 < katsmeow-afk> what?
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10:50 < vrs> kanzure: poke
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10:50 < vrs> 19:50:30 [freenode] -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.75.178]
10:50 < n_bentha> .
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10:50 <@kanzure> vrs: hello
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10:50 -!- n_bentha was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [n_bentha]
10:50 < rdb> finally
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10:51 < katsmeow-afk> he prolly copy/pasted from a site littering tween each html printable char with a <cr>
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10:52 <@kanzure> n_bentha: wb
10:52 < katsmeow-afk> i think he has no idea : [n_bentha PING reply]: 1min 52secs  ,, he wouldn't, coundn't do that on purpose
10:53 < n_bentha> thx
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10:58 < katsmeow-afk> so what were you trying to paste, n_bentha
11:01 < n_bentha> i said it after i pasted
11:02 < katsmeow-afk> you were kicked out before you ended
11:02 < n_bentha> that the exhaust is o2 and h20 from the plasma sterilization process
11:02 < katsmeow-afk> ok, go for it
11:03 < n_bentha> go for what?
11:03 < katsmeow-afk> commercialising it
11:03 < n_bentha> I wasn't trying to
11:03 < katsmeow-afk> my appologies
11:04 < n_bentha> p-salin wanted to use it for his lab
11:05 < n_bentha> i was just saying that it would be nice as it would help out the medical industry sterilize hands
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11:07 <@kanzure> article about nasa software group http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/06/writestuff.html
11:09 < n_bentha> made in Clear Lake, Texas (scary)
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11:43 <@kanzure> i have a disturbing amount of unpublished code in my ~/scripts
11:44 <@kanzure> export_lathe_elements.py cycloidal-gears.py laserservo.py google_metacrawler.py google_suggest.py make-private-tor-network.py reynolds.pl
11:44 <@kanzure> stepper.py stepviewer.py STL_pyvtk_visualizer.py STL_read.py STL_write.py yahoogroups-fetcher.tbz2
11:45 <@kanzure> github-bulk-follow github-followers find-all-cutsets.py parsemeetlog.pl pyceptron.py reeb.py
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11:47 <@kanzure> explore_opencascade.py looks like it dumps a graphviz chart of the opencascade APIs
11:50 <@kanzure> chemicalFormulas.py markovgen.py graphtheory.py okcupid.py occ_stl.py modelica.py transtech.py sldprt_to_3dxml.py csg.py ragdoll-pyode-tutorial.py pymates.py emotiv.py emotiv_hid.py
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11:54 <@kanzure> ruggedcom exploit http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2012/Apr/277
11:54 <@kanzure> "You'll find their gear installed in traffic control
11:54 <@kanzure> systems, railroad communications systems, power plants, electrical
11:54 <@kanzure> substations, and even US military sites."
11:55 <@kanzure> "An undocumented backdoor account exists within all released versions
11:55 <@kanzure> of RuggedCom's Rugged Operating System (ROS®).  The username for the
11:55 <@kanzure> account, which cannot be disabled, is "factory" and its password is
11:55 <@kanzure> dynamically generated based on the device's MAC address."
11:57 < ParahSailin> lol
12:00 < ThomasEgi> more like.. rigged os eh?
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14:59 < nmz787_> Kanzure : what are the 3d items in the repo?
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15:03 <@kanzure> nmz787_: openscad scripts
15:03 <@kanzure> also i think fenn might have committed a haskell script (which uses implicitcad)
15:03 < ThomasEgi> lol?
15:03 < ThomasEgi> ah sry. wrong window
15:06 < nmz787_> Ok i can try to get them working later, never used openscad or haskell before
15:06 <@kanzure> i sorta dislike openscad but setting up anything else (like opencascade) is too painful
15:06 <@kanzure> although, maybe i could yell at fenn for not using brlcad
15:08 < nmz787_> Is that the one started by the navy?
15:10 <@kanzure> ballistics research lab
15:10 <@kanzure> http://brlcad.org/
15:10 <@kanzure> brlcad is actively maintained and has lots of document, but it doesn't have parametric surface manipulation
15:10 <@kanzure> *documentation
15:10 <@kanzure> technically, openscad doesn't either. opencascade does.
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15:11 <@kanzure> i've been meaning to write all this out on http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cadfaq for years now but a written document might not be ideal
15:11 <@kanzure> maybe i should do a giant chart to compare/communicate features
15:14 <@kanzure> but yes.. brlcad is the army's: "Mike Muuss began the initial architecture and design of BRL-CAD back in 1979. Development as a unified package began in 1983. The first public release was made in 1984. BRL-CAD became an open source project on 21 December 2004."
15:14 < nmz787_> Would be nice
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15:20 <@kanzure> nmz787_: you're mobile so you probably can't get to the link easily.. but:
15:20 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/plain/projects/rail.scad?id=bd43de4d7b74e160de6dc2e5fc8e37bdac882795
15:20 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/plain/projects/truck.scad?id=bd43de4d7b74e160de6dc2e5fc8e37bdac882795
15:22 < nmz787_> Cool
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15:23 < nmz787_> Where can fenn/we do machining, does LL have tools?
15:24 <@kanzure> they have some tools but it's not a full machine shop
15:25 < nmz787_> We will need to cut those rods
15:26 <@kanzure> lemnos labs is down the street and we can probably bum some tool time off of them
15:29 < nmz787_> We need to get an optical breadboard or a piece of sheet aluminum (or the alloy fenn mentioned)
15:29 < nmz787_> To mount the rods to
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17:38 < fenn> langton is getting a haas "minimill" :x
17:39 < nmz787_> Can that cut the rods?
17:40 <@kanzure> neato
17:40 <@kanzure> fenn: update about things?
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18:24 < fenn> i was going to cut rods on the bandsaw, or if that didn't work, the abrasive chop saw
18:25 < fenn> cody was doing something similar today
18:25 < fenn> things.. hum. well openscad modeling takes a long time it turns out (no big surprise)
18:25 < fenn> i've been fighting with my OS
18:26 < fenn> uh, the weather is nice
18:26 <@kanzure> nmz787 is apparently showing up in early june
18:26 <@kanzure> so it would be nice if i can order the parts in time for that
18:26 < fenn> that's over a month, i hope i'm not still cadding by then :\
18:27 <@kanzure> would you like a banana?
18:27 <@kanzure> i need some better way to indicate the phrase "cad monkey"
18:29 < fenn> "ooh ooh ooh aah aah aah" just sounds wrong
18:29 <@kanzure> "stop modeling a banana!"
18:29 < fenn> bananacad, the successor to the wildly unpopular avocadocad
18:33 < fenn> why does lxde need rpm and xmms2? come on guys, if i wanted lots of irrelevant crap i'd stick with gnome
18:33 <@kanzure> xmms2 is the evil successor to xmms that everyone hates
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18:35 < fenn> when xmms stopped being available i switched to moc
18:35 <@kanzure> nmz787_: you around?
18:37 < jrayhawk> um. lxde is a metapackage. if you don't want random crap installed, do not use metapackages.
18:37 < jrayhawk> similarly, gnome is a metapackage.
18:40 < fenn> sure but there's also lxde-desktop which contains a complete set of random crap
18:41 < fenn> whereas lxde-core is missing things like lxsession or lxpanel which one would expect to be included with a window manager
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18:58 < nmz787_> Fenn : alloy plate plus you/we mill, or pre fab tjor labs optical breadboard?
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19:05 <@kanzure> i don't think that will highlight his nick
19:06 < fenn> it does
19:06 < fenn> i dont see any need for milling, the plate is supposed to be pretty flat to begin with, i could be wrong
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19:16 <@kanzure> fenn: nmz787_ so we're all agreed that we're doing both photolithography+bluray+laser? or has the plan changed again
19:19 < ParahSailin> i think you should use more laser
19:19 < fenn> i am confused, i thought the bluray laser was for cutting pdms
19:20 <@kanzure> blue is also useful for photocuring things
19:20 < ParahSailin> as musashi says, at every move, you must cut
19:22 <@kanzure> i thought we decided bluray was not a good choice because of some beam-edge-coherence issue that nmz787_ brought up
19:22 < fenn> at every move, you must cure
19:22 < fenn> the idea was blue has a smaller spot size because of diffraction and the shorter wavelength
19:23 <@kanzure> oh and we wouldn't do any optics?
19:23 <@kanzure> that sounds like an excuse for not knowing anything about lenses :p
19:23 < fenn> it already has optics? i don't know anything about lenses :P
19:23 < fenn> it seems irresponsible to not just try it and see if it works
19:23 <@kanzure> you can't just turn on a light source and hope it meets the parameters we want
19:24 < fenn> yes i can
19:24 <@kanzure> i think wikipedia says the spot size is <1 micron?
19:24 <@kanzure> but yes, we should definitely try it
19:24 < fenn> well then, that sounds better than we need doesn't it
19:24 <@kanzure> but we should also try photolithography probably
19:24 <@kanzure> not really, it doubles the number of steps we need or something
19:24 < fenn> oh, it's easier to make a larger spot
19:25 <@kanzure> a beam expander?
19:25 < fenn> just change the Z
19:25 < fenn> i doubt we'll get 1 micron anyway
19:26 < fenn> "For Blu-ray Disc, the spot size is 580 nm."
19:29 < nmz787> bluray drive already has highly engineered optics, hopefully there is only one focusing voil coil, which is just the Z... i.e. hopefully there isn't a second focusing optic somewhere in there that is triggered by the bluray controller.
19:30 < nmz787> alternatively, we could maybe just hook it up to a SATA port, and cut the stepper wires
19:30 < nmz787> tell it to burn a full disc of bluray at 12X
19:30 < nmz787> using nero or brasero or whatever
19:31 < nmz787> kanzure: even with beam coherence issues, its still gonna be easier to get a smaller spot, and if its enough power we don't really care if the beam is coherent, as long as it blasts the hell outta the PDMS... we're dragging the beam along the path anyway, so it will average out
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19:33 < fenn> oh the worry was fringes?
19:33 < nmz787> fenn: i meant machining the plate with holes for the support rails... how will we get them square and bolted down?
19:33 < fenn> get what square?
19:33 < nmz787> fenn: my buddy was working at a particle physics laser lab
19:33 < nmz787> so from his perspective its all that mattered really
19:34 < nmz787> get the gantry support rails perpendicular
19:34 < fenn> ah
19:34 < nmz787> err
19:34 < nmz787> parallel
19:34 < fenn> i havent figured out how to do that yet
19:34 < fenn> paralle is easy
19:34 < nmz787> i figure the thorlabs plate has a matrix of holes
19:34 < fenn> mount dti on one rail, leave second rail bolts slightly loose, tap with tiny hammer
19:34 < nmz787> it isn't much more than the alloy you mentioned from mcmaster
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19:35 < nmz787> i cant remember the acronym
19:35 < fenn> need 3 plates though
19:35 < fenn> mic-6 is the alloy
19:35 < nmz787> yeah
19:35 < nmz787> why 3
19:35 < nmz787> and not 1?
19:35 < fenn> top middle and bottom
19:35 < nmz787> won't there just be top and bottom?
19:35 < fenn> i am planning on putting the rails on the middle plate
19:35 < nmz787> top moves laser, bottom moves substrate?
19:35 < fenn> i should really get on this cad stuff huh
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19:36 < fenn> anyway you need 3 with serial kinematics
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19:37 < nmz787> X Y Z?
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19:38 < nmz787> pic?
19:38 < fenn> serial = standard cartesian axis movement, more or less
19:38 < fenn> er i misspoke
19:39 < nmz787> something like this? https://home.comcast.net/~jpzavodny/IMG_4382.JPG
19:40 < fenn> see the three plates here? http://www.lasermotion.com/images/optics/ano1216.gif
19:40 < fenn> i dont know what that t-slot image is supposed to represent
19:41 < fenn> i should probably get a thicker plate than 1/4"
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19:50 < fenn> "Workstation assembly, as shown $ 9,750"
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20:12 < d3nd3> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_B1PkgA3kA&feature=g-logo
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20:14 < nmz787> ahh, where is the work being done there fenn?
20:23 < katsmeow-afk> some time ago, the topic of growing diamonds was mentioned in here : http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/artificial-diamonds.html
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20:37 < Jora> evening
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20:55 < d3nd3> good night.
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21:09 <@kanzure> does anyone want to write a lexer for me
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21:14 < nmz787> lexer?
21:15 < nmz787> katsmeow-afk: pretty cool video
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21:16 < fenn> shouldn't you be using pyparsing?
21:24 <@kanzure> probably
21:24 <@kanzure> fenn: i'm using ply.lex
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22:00 <@kanzure> "When it's cheaper to buy heroin on the street than an aspirin in a hospital you know that the market is screwed up somewhere"
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22:12 < bkero> heh
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22:37 < Adifex> http://tinypic.com/r/30cc6f5/6
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23:15 < Adifex> oops sorry wrong board *facepalm*
23:15 < Adifex> that's our Honors director
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23:24 < Mariu> o/
23:53 < Utopiah> http://www.europarl.europa.eu/stoa/cms/cache/offonce/home/events/workshops/enhancement
23:54 < Mariu> is indefinite life span included ?
23:55 < Mariu> *lifespan
23:56 < Utopiah> they say "perfect life", not sure yet what that stands for I doubt indefinite life span or escape velocity will ever be mentionned
23:56 < Mariu> :/
23:56 < Utopiah> if you really are curious there will be a live stream
23:57 < Mariu> sure
23:57 < Mariu> link me up
23:58 < Utopiah> http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ep-live/en/other-events/video?event=20120426-0900-SPECIAL-STOA&vodtype=Live
23:58 < Mariu> thanks
23:59 < fenn> yet another ethics circle jerk
--- Log closed Thu Apr 26 00:00:11 2012