--- Log opened Fri May 04 00:00:00 2012
00:09 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-163-157-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"]
00:10 -!- Cat4D [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
00:12 -!- azonenberg [~azonenber@2001:470:888b:2:206:70ff:fe01:46] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:44 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-11.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:44 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-11.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has quit [Changing host]
00:44 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:09 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:32 -!- katsmeow-afk [~someone@unaffiliated/katsmeow] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
01:38 -!- any33635263 [~someone@75-120-44-76.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:47 -!- any33635263 [~someone@75-120-44-76.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
01:49 -!- any99338552 [~someone@75-120-13-169.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:51 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
01:56 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:01 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:11 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-18-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:07 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-11.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:07 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-11.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has quit [Changing host]
03:07 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:46 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:53 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has quit []
05:48 -!- jmil [~jmil@2607:f470:8:3148:ac25:6983:41d7:2808] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:01 -!- any99338552 is now known as katsmeow-afk
06:01 -!- katsmeow-afk [~someone@75-120-13-169.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Changing host]
06:01 -!- katsmeow-afk [~someone@unaffiliated/katsmeow] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:01 -!- nsh [~nsh@cpc4-broo8-2-0-cust859.14-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
06:12 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone,
06:19 -!- kvltist [~Kvltist@p5B15720E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:35 -!- splicer__ is now known as splicer
07:01 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
07:04 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
07:12 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:35 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
07:37 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
07:47 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:47 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-45.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:47 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-45.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has quit [Changing host]
07:47 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:47 -!- streety [streety@li139-74.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
07:50 -!- streety [streety@li139-74.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:57 -!- fawwo [~fawwo@95.211.10.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:58 -!- fawwo [~fawwo@95.211.10.25] has quit [Client Quit]
08:22 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
08:26 < kanzure> beepity boop
08:26 < JayDugger> When did you learn the binary language of moisture evaporators?
08:28 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:31 < kanzure> azonenberg: yo.. looks like geoff replied
08:36 < kanzure> summer courses for 'neuron' simulator http://www.neuron.yale.edu/neuron/static/courses/nscsd2012/nscsd2012.html (san diego / may)
08:37 < kanzure> "In five days of intensive lectures, demonstrations, and hands-on exercises, this course will cover the principles and practice of the design, construction, and use of models in the NEURON simulation environment."
08:37 < kanzure> "It is designed primarily for those who are concerned with models of biological neurons and neural networks that are closely linked to empirical observations, e.g. experimentalists who wish to incorporate modeling in their research plans, and theoreticians who are interested in the principles of biological computation."
08:40 < kanzure> regarding that pbs/news hour crap from yesterday.. cathal linked to this (which seems like it was made for this?) http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/02/09
08:48 < kanzure> you know.. the fbi has a shockingly low response time to my emails
08:48 < kanzure> this last one was a 30 second response time
08:55 < kanzure> webgl game http://www.webgl.com/2012/05/webgl-game-cube-2-sauerbraten/
09:06 -!- ThomasEgi_ [~thomas@pppdyn-45.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:07 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
09:20 < katsmeow-afk> kanzure, maybe they know what the email is as you compose it, that gives them more time
09:24 < nuba> nah, they've already predicted you'd be sending that email, that gives them way more time.
09:24 < katsmeow-afk> which tells me all those new computer clusters ae online and used for prediction, as well as monitoring
09:25 < kanzure> so by not not sending the email i'd be breaking the law?
09:25 * nuba goes back to lurking the shadows again -- I've already said too much!
09:25 < nuba> ;)
09:26 < katsmeow-afk> let us know if you get an email answering that question
10:01 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
10:06 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
10:13 < kanzure> physical basis of ion channel dynamics http://www.ccs.fau.edu/~liebovitch/dyn.html
10:14 < kanzure> "A Numerical Approach to Ion Channel Modelling Using Whole-Cell Voltage-Clamp Recordings and a Genetic Algorithm"
10:16 -!- FriendComputer [urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:16 < kanzure> hrm i thought there was a database of ion channel kinetic models somewhere
10:18 < kanzure> channeldb sounds right but i don't see any actual data anywhere?
10:18 < kanzure> http://www.genesis-sim.org/hbp/channeldb/xml/text/
10:19 < kanzure> http://www.genesis-sim.org/hbp/channeldb/xml/text/Ca_hip_traub91.txt
10:19 < kanzure>
10:19 < kanzure> well that's enraging
10:19 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:24 < kanzure> aha here we go.. http://channelpedia.epfl.ch/ionchannels/188/hhmodels/1.channelml
10:24 < kanzure> from http://channelpedia.epfl.ch/ionchannels/188
10:24 < kanzure>
10:24 < kanzure>
10:24 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@ip-64-134-243-157.public.wayport.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:24 < delinquentme> Found a pitt company whos running microluidic diagnostics
10:25 < delinquentme> apparently theres a solid proto lab @ CMU?
10:26 < kanzure> most universities will have their own foundry yes
10:37 < kanzure> oh neat.. NEURON+python http://www.davison.webfactional.com/notes/installation-neuron-python/
10:37 < kanzure> http://www.davison.webfactional.com/notes/accessing-hoc-python/
10:50 < delinquentme> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__seh5fKDLY << how to build medical electrodes for those playing with brain stimulation :D
11:12 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@ip-64-134-243-157.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
11:13 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:29 < kanzure> https://github.com/languages/VHDL/created <-- vhdl hardware projects
11:36 -!- Guest50608 is now known as poptire
11:57 -!- streety [streety@li139-74.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: *]
11:57 -!- streety [~streety@li139-74.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:05 < azonenberg> kanzure: just saw it, havent read it yet
12:21 -!- kvltist [~Kvltist@p5B15720E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
12:38 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-163-157-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:39 -!- ThomasEgi_ [~thomas@pppdyn-45.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has quit [Quit: ...unyaaa ~~~]
12:39 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-45.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:39 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-45.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has quit [Changing host]
12:39 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:44 < kanzure> _Sketch_: o_____o
12:44 < _Sketch_> kanzure: aaaaaaa
12:59 -!- Juul [~Juul@171.67.161.96] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:00 -!- kvltist [~Kvltist@p5B15720E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:05 < kanzure> Juul: wb
13:22 -!- Cat4D [182be7c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.231.194] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:30 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:51 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:01 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-18-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:03 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
14:16 < thyla> I'm honestly getting kinda sick-and-tired of singularitans
14:17 < thyla> especially those running around saying "HUman level AI in 7 years herp derp durr"
14:19 -!- chandoo [~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:34 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:38 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-18-117.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:54 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-18-117.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: quit]
15:02 < Juul> kanzure, thanks
15:06 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:12 -!- chandoo [~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:19 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-163-157-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
15:35 < jrayhawk> well, at this point, transhumanism looks like the only alternative to AI takeoff, so you're probably in the right place
15:39 -!- FriendComputer [urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
15:42 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:43 < kanzure> hrm so i wrote up this nootropic simulation proposal and sent it to randal
15:43 < kanzure> it looks like there's no nootropicdb for simulation the effects of neutraceuticals on receptors/channels
15:43 < kanzure> but those graphs are in the literature
15:44 < kanzure> presumably simulating small neuronal networks with nootropically-modulated activity would help show overall impact or what modulators would be more useful/performant
15:45 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]
15:46 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:46 -!- _sol_ [~Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit []
15:47 -!- _sol_ [Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:50 < Cat4D> e
15:50 < Cat4D> i cant remember the results fo the studies we did
15:51 < Cat4D> you need to always encourage the system to bring up the levels of available materials, but NOT increase the electrical load on the neurons
15:51 < Cat4D> and no fking stimulants
16:01 -!- strages_shop [~strages@adsl-98-81-81-106.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:15 -!- Juul [~Juul@171.67.161.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:20 -!- strages_shop is now known as strages_2600
16:23 -!- jmil [~jmil@2607:f470:8:3148:ac25:6983:41d7:2808] has quit [Quit: jmil]
16:34 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:38 -!- splicer [~ubuntu@c83-255-190-140.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
16:47 < ParahSailin> well im learning a lot about sequencing
16:48 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:49 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:51 -!- splicer [~ubuntu@c83-255-190-140.bredband.comhem.se] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:52 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:56 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:58 -!- lichen|2 [~lichen@c-76-105-164-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:59 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:00 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-76-105-164-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:03 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-18-117.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:05 -!- strages_2600 [~strages@adsl-98-81-81-106.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
17:07 < kanzure> "Aufgrund unzumutbarer Kosten und Bezugsbedingungen hat das Direktorium des Zentrums Mathematik beschlossen, alle abonnierten Elsevier-Zeitschriften ab 2013 abzubestellen"
17:07 < kanzure> http://www.ma.tum.de/Mathematik/BibliothekElsevier
17:08 < kanzure> abonnierten means abort i think.. so i'm pretty sure they are shitting on elsevier subscriptions
17:09 < kanzure> nope. wait.
17:09 -!- ShapeShifter_ is now known as SDr
17:13 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:14 -!- strages_shop [~strages@adsl-98-81-81-106.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:19 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:34 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:36 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-18-117.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:03 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
18:07 -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:24 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:25 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:26 -!- strages_shop [~strages@adsl-98-81-81-106.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
18:33 < katsmeow-afk> i have been looking online almost all day, and can find RO filter canisters, but not the connectors to hook up to them, or holders to put them into,,, anyone have a clue they can share?
18:42 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:46 < katsmeow-afk> ah : "membrane housing"
18:47 -!- SDr [SDr@cpc10-dals18-2-0-cust809.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host]
18:47 -!- SDr [SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:48 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:48 < delinquentme> so what about Quid
18:48 < delinquentme> anyone have shit to say on them?
19:20 -!- Mikoangelo [~Mikael@78.157.118.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
19:20 -!- Mikael [~Mikael@78.157.118.97] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:37 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:39 < kanzure> beepity boop
19:39 < kanzure> #brlcad is investigating nanoengineer
19:40 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:02 < kanzure> roksprok: :P
20:02 < kanzure> guess the military was too much for you
20:02 < roksprok> yep
20:03 < roksprok> also the realization that i knew nothing about CAD
20:03 < kanzure> http://brlcad.org/
20:04 < roksprok> is it run by the military
20:04 < kanzure> yep
20:05 < roksprok> ah....'ballistics research laboratory
20:07 < roksprok> how good are we at positioning atoms? like how far away are we from where the examples on nanoengineer's github can be built?
20:07 < kanzure> there's a lot of really great content about that in the nanosystems roadmap from foresight institute
20:07 < kanzure> www.foresight.org/roadmaps/Nanotech_Roadmap_2007_main.pdf
20:07 < kanzure> www.foresight.org/roadmaps/Nanotech_Roadmap_2007_WG_Proc.pdf
20:07 < kanzure> blah where's my http
20:07 < kanzure> http://www.foresight.org/roadmaps/Nanotech_Roadmap_2007_WG_Proc.pdf
20:07 < kanzure> http://www.foresight.org/roadmaps/Nanotech_Roadmap_2007_main.pdf
20:08 < roksprok> where we're going we don't need http
20:09 < kanzure> here is a list of remaining technical challenges:
20:09 < kanzure> http://www.molecularassembler.com/Nanofactory/Challenges.htm#TCDMS
20:23 < delinquentme> seriously I question this idea that a product wont sell itself
20:23 < kanzure> brownies: your turn..
20:23 < delinquentme> like I want to find a continuum of what TRULY must be sold
20:23 < delinquentme> to something thats easier to sell
20:23 < delinquentme> used cars are for example
20:24 < delinquentme> a tad harder to sell than an iPad?
20:24 < delinquentme> maybe?
20:24 < kanzure> used cars are usually cheaper
20:24 < delinquentme> i dead carcass rotting away with ebola
20:24 < delinquentme> harder to sell than a pack of gum
20:24 < delinquentme> yes?
20:24 < brownies> eh?
20:24 < delinquentme> now in that example what if your client is a researcher
20:25 < delinquentme> that eases the sale of the carcass a bit
20:25 < delinquentme> but can we agree that the gum is still an fairly easy sell?
20:25 < brownies> depends, probably not if you're selling it to a gum factory
20:25 < delinquentme> true.
20:25 < delinquentme> what about a cell phone
20:25 < delinquentme> I see this as a pretty *must have*
20:25 < brownies> what about a walrus? this line of questioning is meaningless
20:25 < delinquentme> i disagree
20:26 < delinquentme> as stated brownies im looking for the continuum
20:26 < kanzure> sir i would like one walrus
20:26 < delinquentme> now if you concede that some things are easier to sell than others
20:26 -!- kvltist [~Kvltist@p5B15720E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
20:26 < brownies> there is no grand unified theory
20:26 < delinquentme> is it bad logic to therefore extrapolate that there could be extremes of that model?
20:26 < brownies> it depends on what you're selling, when, to whom.
20:27 < delinquentme> brownies, yes and by that generalization E=mc^2 is useless
20:27 < brownies> *and how. heh.
20:27 < kanzure> how is the most important part!
20:27 < kanzure> yeesh
20:27 < delinquentme> so what is at the level of being useful
20:27 < brownies> that's not a ... what. that's not how logic works.
20:27 < kanzure> the "what" is perhaps the least
20:28 < kanzure> (if you did your job and identified the customer correctly, the "what" will be a given)
20:28 < delinquentme> brownies, I'm trying to invalidate the idea that bc there is no grand unified theory
20:28 < delinquentme> that there is no benefit in a continuum
20:28 < kanzure> what ?
20:28 < brownies> there is no objective metric here.
20:28 < delinquentme> i stated the metric
20:28 < kanzure> you started off by selling "an object can sell itself"
20:28 < kanzure> *saying
20:28 < delinquentme> harder vrs easier to sell
20:28 < brownies> perhaps if the object is a good salesman, he can sell himself when he is looking for a job
20:29 < delinquentme> tell me that that is an invalid matric
20:29 < delinquentme> metric**
20:29 < brownies> it is an invalid metric, for about the 3rd time, because you have no context.
20:29 < brownies> harder vs. easier sell BY WHOM TO WHOM HOW WHEN.
20:29 < delinquentme> brownies, we can flesh that out ad infinitum
20:29 < delinquentme> sure lets add a billion vars so that its overfitted
20:29 < delinquentme> no
20:29 < brownies> nah, just those 4.
20:29 < delinquentme> specifically NOT what im saying
20:30 < delinquentme> yes each of which has a billion possible values
20:30 < brownies> ok, fine, i'll humor you for a minute
20:30 < brownies> go on
20:30 < brownies> let us pretend this metric exists with no other context
20:30 < delinquentme> ok so lets use the topical machine my liquid handler
20:31 < delinquentme> would it be easier to a diagnostics lab for liquid handling
20:31 < delinquentme> than a stick
20:31 < delinquentme> YES.
20:31 < delinquentme> a stick would err on the side of useless
20:31 < kanzure> sell them a million sticks and you will finally be a salesman
20:31 < delinquentme> rebuttal?
20:32 < delinquentme> like i mean its a useless example right?
20:32 < delinquentme> something easier
20:33 < delinquentme> what if I want to GIVE someone a new set of pipette tips I invented
20:33 < delinquentme> is that easier than selling them an AF microscope?
20:33 < delinquentme> TLDR ( and why im right )
20:33 < delinquentme> to say " nothing sells itself" is too simplistic
20:33 < delinquentme> as well as absolute
20:34 < delinquentme> so it has a high likelihood of being incorrect
20:34 < delinquentme> now im really curious as to how you'd fight that
20:35 < roksprok> i think expecting a three word phrase to not be simplistic is putting the bar too high
20:36 < delinquentme> roksprok, yes yes but
20:37 < delinquentme> saying that something that is noticeably GOOD
20:37 < delinquentme> lets go so far as to say OBJECTIVELY good and value-additive
20:37 < delinquentme> is easier to sell than something which is not
20:37 < kanzure> didn't they ask you to give them a demo of your device?
20:37 < kanzure> and you refused?
20:37 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:37 < delinquentme> kanzure, is that my response?
20:38 < delinquentme> " its not ready? "
20:38 < delinquentme> which i guess is honest
20:38 < kanzure> i thought it was ready
20:38 < delinquentme> brownies,
20:38 < kanzure> but you refused to show them or something
20:38 < kanzure> so they didn't buy it
20:38 < delinquentme> kanzure, i have no proto
20:38 < delinquentme> so theres nothing to show
20:38 < delinquentme> I can show them pumps and folded acrylic
20:41 < katsmeow-afk> and sketches of shafts pounded thru additional shafts so they slide back and forth
20:42 < katsmeow-afk> err, steppers
20:46 < brownies> what are you looking for here, exactly?
20:46 < kanzure> brownies: haha
20:46 < brownies> a stick is less useful to a lab technician than a pipette? sure, but notice how you've magically added context.
20:46 < kanzure> delinquentme: answer :p
20:47 < delinquentme> brownies, brownies this is to assist you in conceptualizing
20:47 < brownies> i assure you that your oversimplified metaphors are helping no one
20:47 < delinquentme> brownies, are you an economist?
20:47 < kanzure> there are many reasons that people don't want to invest in something that doesn't exist.. (namely they aren't investors)
20:48 < delinquentme> there is a reasonable complexity
20:48 < brownies> not a professional economist, if that's what you mean
20:48 < delinquentme> lets loosely call it "reality"
20:48 < delinquentme> in which we need to attempt to model this "sell hard" vrs " sells itself "
20:49 -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:49 < kanzure> the reason "cars" in your above examples sell themselves is because of peer recommendation
20:49 < kanzure> people get cars because every other car is an advertisement
20:49 < kanzure> not because the car asked them to buy it
20:49 < brownies> also because the car company spent millions of dollars on marketing.
20:49 < delinquentme> what I want to hear from you is a consent that some things are easier to sell ( sure ill even give you " in particular situations " )
20:49 < delinquentme> than other things
20:49 < brownies> at this point it might be the case that everything is equally difficult for YOU to sell ;)
20:50 < delinquentme> kanzure, yeah you're correct in that its hard to create an isolated system here
20:50 < brownies> but yes, if i walk into a car dealership, it will probably be easier for them to sell me a car than a walrus.
20:50 < delinquentme> brownies, lets not joke
20:50 < delinquentme> kplzthnx
20:50 < delinquentme> so
20:50 < delinquentme> some things harder
20:50 < delinquentme> some things easier
20:50 < delinquentme> water in the desert to someone in a dehydrated state
20:50 < brownies> i said i'd nod along with this construct of yours a while ago. so what's your point?
20:51 < delinquentme> EASIER sell ... than water for someone sitting next to a brita pitcher
20:51 < brownies> these lab technicians presumably already have a solution for handling their liquids
20:51 < delinquentme> that one can develop a continuum of harder vrs easier sales
20:51 < delinquentme> and if we can make a continuum
20:51 < delinquentme> there are inherently things at both sides of that line graph
20:52 < brownies> sure. anything priced at below market value will sell itself to any theoretically rational actor.
20:52 < delinquentme> and im not even talking about the Liquid handler
20:52 < brownies> *significantly below
20:52 < delinquentme> which is a ton of people are all very anti-my liquid handler here
20:52 < kanzure> non-existant liquid handler has a $0 market value :p
20:52 < delinquentme> wtf is that about
20:52 < kanzure> not at all dude
20:52 < kanzure> we like it
20:52 < kanzure> but you want to start a business around it
20:53 < brownies> i'm not sure how this rambling talk about continuums of sales difficulty is going to help you sell a liquid handler
20:53 < delinquentme> brownies, its your presumption that the sale of the LH is what I was on about
20:53 < kanzure> well then what are you talking about?
20:53 < delinquentme> im saying that I disagree with Thiels idea that "nothing sells itself"
20:53 < brownies> no, i have no idea wtf you're going on about, and i'm just trying to drag you back to something somewhat useful.
20:53 < delinquentme> because thats fucking stupid and simplistic
20:53 < delinquentme> ahh
20:54 < delinquentme> i derped
20:54 < delinquentme> i didnt mention that I'm waxing on about this:
20:54 < delinquentme> http://blakemasters.tumblr.com/post/22405055017/peter-thiels-cs183-startup-class-9-notes-essay
20:54 < roksprok> and its three words! what three words aren't stupid and simplistic?
20:54 < delinquentme> roksprok, context
20:54 < delinquentme> please
20:54 < kanzure> oh.. you're complaining about peter thiel? meh
20:54 < delinquentme> disregard the words .. or count or whatever you know what he meanc
20:54 < delinquentme> means *
20:55 < roksprok> his point is that it is easy for engineers to overlook sales
20:55 < roksprok> i thought it was a good read
20:55 < roksprok> especially the part about palantir and SpaceX
20:56 < roksprok> i had always wondered how those huge contracts got handeled
20:56 < delinquentme> oh I agree
20:56 < delinquentme> but I dont agree w the specific parts
20:59 < delinquentme> SEX
20:59 < delinquentme> hear me out
20:59 < delinquentme> Does sex appeal
20:59 < delinquentme> need to be sold?
20:59 < delinquentme> or does it sell itself?
21:00 < yashgaroth> ooh yeah you can handle my liquids baby
21:00 < delinquentme> tell me where on the continuum of:
21:00 < delinquentme> Hard Sell --------------------------------- Sells Itself
21:00 -!- ENKI-][ [~john@c-71-232-69-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
21:00 < delinquentme> yashgaroth, ha
21:00 < delinquentme> thanks
21:00 < delinquentme> appresh
21:14 < kanzure> opengl trouble with nanoengineer
21:14 < kanzure> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1617867
21:15 < kanzure> (from starseeker on gentoo)
21:15 -!- Cat4D [182be7c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.231.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
21:16 -!- ENKI-][ [~john@c-71-232-69-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:18 < delinquentme> That’s not true at all. And since the best people tend to make the best companies, the founders or one or two key senior people at any multimillion-dollar company should probably spend between 25% and 33% of their time identifying and attracting talent.
21:18 < delinquentme> I agree with this
21:19 < katsmeow-afk> i think you need a product that sells first, or you can't meet payroll or the power bill
21:19 < kanzure> katsmeow-afk: unless you know how to sell to investors
21:20 < katsmeow-afk> i don't, case closed
21:21 -!- lichen|2 is now known as lichen
21:26 -!- ENKI-][ [~john@c-71-232-69-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
21:26 -!- ENKI-][ [~john@c-71-232-69-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:33 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:38 -!- SDr [SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
21:53 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:56 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:01 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:01 < klafka> http://whatshouldwecallgradschool.tumblr.com/post/21497005108/when-there-is-no-food-at-the-seminar
22:03 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:16 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil]
22:16 -!- jenzebubble [jen@173-18-211-34.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:20 -!- jennicide [jen@173-18-211-34.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
22:36 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:31 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
--- Log closed Sat May 05 00:00:01 2012