--- Log opened Wed May 09 00:00:05 2012
00:07 < kanzure> 'night
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00:15 < Utopiah> yep, yet I admit I remain curious about economists view on technological singularity or even "just" radical improvments in AI
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01:35 < Utopiah> Cheap sequencing technology is flooding the world with genomic data. Can we handle the deluge? http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/40271/ (just sexy infographics)
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06:59 < kanzure> beep boop
06:59 < kanzure> hi thesnark
07:10 * ENKI-][ hunts thesnark
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07:45 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone.
07:50 < docl> good morning
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08:11 < kanzure> 214M diybio/cur
08:11 < kanzure> 146M diybio/new
08:11 < kanzure> not bad i guess
08:12 < AdrianG> ?
08:12 < AdrianG> millions of what
08:15 < kanzure> i have been backing up my gmail account for the last four days
08:16 < kanzure> in addition, it's sorta well known that mbox mailboxes have that general structure (cur, new, temp)
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08:39 < delinquentme> kanzure, do you know if anyone is measuring impact in open data journals?
08:41 < kanzure> plos has some internal metrics somewhere
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09:15 < thesnark> ENKI-][ =D
09:15 < thesnark> hey kanzure
09:20 < thesnark> careful enki, I'm a boojum
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09:34 < kanzure> thesnark: looking at sfl stuff today?
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09:37 < kanzure> fenn_: beep?
09:38 < ThomasEgi> beep wont do. take a trainhorn!
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09:39 < kanzure> TITLE
09:40 < kanzure> hooray html :/
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10:10 < AdrianG> Just attackclone the grit repo pushmerge, then rubygem the lymphnode js shawarma module -- and presto! http://html9responsiveboilerstrapjs.com/
10:13 < kanzure> he loses points sine 'grit' isn't a usbale command in this context
10:18 < kanzure> http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2012/05/09/one_more_on_that_buckyball_longevity_paper.php
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10:54 < delinquentme> kanzure, whats the TLDR on his evaluation of the bucky ball studies?
10:58 < kanzure> there is no "TLDR" go away
11:06 < delinquentme> ....
11:06 < delinquentme> kanzure, whats that about
11:06 < delinquentme> vat iz de issue?
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11:25 < kanzure> delinquentme: "TLDR" for a summary of a summary of a paper? please, no. just read it.
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13:32 < nmz787> howdy doo
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13:35 < kanzure> nmz787: hey. are you back?
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13:46 < nmz787> lol
13:46 < nmz787> yeah
13:46 < nmz787> got back 2am tues morn
13:46 < delinquentme> kanzure, “Pokemon was a 24+ billion dollar franchise. As far as anyone can tell, Nintendo has very little interest in building games outside its own platform. We are making Pokemon for the iPhone.”
13:46 < delinquentme> http://www.jasonshen.com/2012/eleven-compelling-startup-pitch-archetypes-with-examples-from-yc-companies/
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13:47 < delinquentme> but I happen to like #6 better
13:47 < delinquentme> Archetype
13:48 < delinquentme> 6
13:48 < nmz787> kanzure: any word from fenn re: his design for the gantry
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13:48 < nmz787> kanzure: i know most of the parts,except the metal sheets, are on the google spreadsheet
13:53 < kanzure> actually no.. i haven't heard from him
13:53 < kanzure> nmz787: was the convo w/ rob productive?
13:53 < nmz787> meh
13:53 < kanzure> sorry for building your hopes up about him :p
13:53 < nmz787> he said he could make a dna printer in 3-6 months easily, after i mentioned our interest
13:53 < kanzure> i'm sure he could.. but he hasn't
13:53 < nmz787> i don't think we're making a 'DNA printer' either, that sounds like a bullshit hipster term to me
13:53 < kanzure> it's a "MICROBE PRINTER" !!!111one
13:53 < kanzure> gotta turn up the hipster... let's see.. "Desktop baby printer"
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13:54 < delinquentme> rob carlson?
13:54 < delinquentme> didnt you say you hated him?
13:57 < kanzure> rob has a tendency to be helpful if you ask very very specific questions
13:57 < kanzure> and/or if he is motivated at the moment to answer your question
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14:00 < snark_> knazure yeah
14:00 < snark_> in about 5 hrs
14:00 < snark_> if you can wait that long ;)
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14:14 < kanzure> neat gpgpu article on nurbs intersections:
14:15 < kanzure> http://www.me.berkeley.edu/~mcmains/pubs/SPM08gpuSSI.pdf
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14:27 < kanzure> eh? so their method is AABBs on portions of the intersecting surfaces?
14:27 < kanzure> "At the same time, we also get the ranges in the parametric domain corresponding to the intersecting surface patches."
14:28 < kanzure> section 6.1 is bizarre. instead of doing actual matrix math to determine the intersection curve between two surfaces, they are using triangles to approximate the intersection?
14:28 < kanzure> "Finally, to compute the actual intersection curves themselves from the list of points, we make use of a greedy algorithm (Algorithm 3) that computes the intersection curves by successively merging polylines that are close to each other. We working a 7-dimensional space R7, integrating the data from both the model space as well as the two parametric spaces."
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14:58 < Thorbinator1> http://www.reddit.com/r/Cyberpunk/comments/tf5wi/ama_about_my_magnetic_finger_implants/
14:59 < Thorbinator1> a guy gets magnets implanted in his ring finger tips
14:59 < Thorbinator1> can feel them move around
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15:21 < ThomasEgi> Thorbinator1, magnetic implants are pretty popular amongst grinders
15:21 < ThomasEgi> quite a number of people have them.
15:24 < delinquentme> ThomasEgi, grinders/
15:24 < delinquentme> like people who work with grinding wheels?
15:24 < ThomasEgi> hehe. nope
15:24 < ENKI-][> snark_: boojum? we aren't on the potato anymore
15:24 < ThomasEgi> the kind of biohackers that slice themself up to stuff extras in their bodies
15:24 < ThomasEgi> magnetic implants, electronics, etc
15:26 < delinquentme> lol ohhhh
15:26 < ENKI-][> grinders don't seem to get much love here
15:26 < delinquentme> cool term
15:26 < delinquentme> ENKI-][, in this channel?
15:26 < ENKI-][> yes
15:26 < delinquentme> like i wouldn't do it myself but
15:26 < ENKI-][> a lot of people are very vocally against lepht here
15:26 < delinquentme> I guess so long as you know what you're getting yourself into .. and you've got a backup plan .. go for it!
15:27 < ENKI-][> *nod*
15:27 < delinquentme> what is lepht
15:27 < ENKI-][> who is lepht
15:27 < delinquentme> Lepht Anonym is a faceless, genderless British wetware hacker. it lacks both gods and money, and likes people, science and practical transhumanism.
15:27 < delinquentme> ?
15:27 < ENKI-][> exactly
15:27 < delinquentme> was he in here and people talked shit or something?
15:27 < kanzure> grinders get exactly zero love in here, on purpose
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15:27 < ENKI-][> though i thought she was scottish. well, whatever.
15:28 < kanzure> lepht is not genderless.. what a load of crap
15:28 < delinquentme> kanzure, it smells like marketing
15:28 < kanzure> delinquentme: it is
15:28 < ENKI-][> lepht has all my love, but returns none of it. she returned my email once, though!
15:28 < delinquentme> thats obviously terrible
15:28 < kanzure> "grinding" is just another name for readers of body modification magazine, or something
15:28 < AdrianG> grinding is stupid
15:29 < delinquentme> soo what about if we've got people who use modified contacts?
15:29 < kanzure> delinquentme: what about it?
15:29 < AdrianG> contacts?
15:29 < delinquentme> so thats ok
15:29 < kanzure> what?
15:29 < delinquentme> modified contacts
15:29 < kanzure> what about them?
15:29 < delinquentme> say with video implants or something
15:29 < delinquentme> to discuss here
15:29 < kanzure> oh, to discuss
15:30 < delinquentme> juxtaposed against inserting things into ones self
15:30 < kanzure> i generally recommend against using lepth as a role model for anything, that's all
15:30 < delinquentme> one is good one is not?
15:30 < ENKI-][> i don't think gargoyles count as grinders, though i don't think there's much love for wearables here.
15:30 < kanzure> *lepht
15:30 < kanzure> ENKI-][: there's a few wearable projects in here
15:30 < AdrianG> there are contacts that project images
15:30 < AdrianG> ?
15:30 < ENKI-][> grinders quite specifically cut themselves up, or have themselves cut up.
15:30 < AdrianG> like, you can buy them?
15:31 < ENKI-][> AdrianG: there are four-pixel ones that they put in rabbits two years ago.
15:31 < delinquentme> there are prototypes
15:31 < AdrianG> thats not even a screen
15:31 < AdrianG> i meant, somethign i can BUY
15:31 < ENKI-][> heh
15:31 < AdrianG> that would be the first thing i'd get
15:31 < kanzure> ENKI-][: telling people not to use anaesthesia, talking about how psychotic you are because you cut down to your bone regularly, etc., is just not a good 'face of biohacking' to have around
15:31 < ENKI-][> you can't even BUY a wearable
15:32 < delinquentme> totally cooler than google googles
15:32 < kanzure> ENKI-][: you can definitely buy components to a wearable, what are you talking about..
15:32 < AdrianG> ENKI-][: ofc u can
15:32 < ENKI-][> kanzure: she tells people to use anaesthesia. she just says that *she* didn't.
15:32 < AdrianG> i can order custom, computer lathe cut lenses
15:32 < kanzure> ENKI-][: not really.. "lead by example" and such
15:32 < AdrianG> any material, any design
15:32 < kanzure> "post videos of me screaming to youtube"
15:32 < kanzure> "mix biohacking/transhumanism/with personal psychotic issues" hooray
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15:32 < kanzure> no thanks. none of that in here..
15:32 < delinquentme> is there a better inbound link tool than alexa?
15:32 < AdrianG> you just need to add an extra step of slapping some lcd scrap inside it
15:32 < ENKI-][> kanzure: you can buy the components for a wearable, but you can also buy the components to construct a contact lens display (if you are extremely wealthy).
15:32 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, well the cutting up part is only a neccessary step for implantation.
15:33 < ThomasEgi> and there have been a couple of rather interesting ideas
15:33 < ENKI-][> meh
15:33 < ThomasEgi> like geigercounter implants (after fukushima)
15:33 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: if you are going to implant something, you should probably implant things that are wirelessly rechargable, rather than batteries (as lepht did)
15:33 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, true.
15:33 < kanzure> ok. so again, i think that particular surgery was pointless and is a bad example.
15:33 < ThomasEgi> i already have a tiny lithium battery + charging logic + induction coils around
15:33 < AdrianG> lenses have to be wireless
15:33 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: that's because you might possibly understand wireless transduction ;)
15:33 < AdrianG> but they should be cheap enough to make
15:34 < AdrianG> aspherical custom order contact lens from rigid materials is 30-40 bucks
15:34 < AdrianG> shipping included
15:34 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, as an EE student i better do :D otherwise i would fail at my exams
15:34 < AdrianG> how do you embed an lcd screen inside a lens?
15:34 < ThomasEgi> not at all.
15:34 < ThomasEgi> you'd use tiny led's
15:35 < ThomasEgi> that focus directly on the retina.
15:35 < AdrianG> ok these lenses are 0.08mm thick
15:35 < ThomasEgi> a whole array of them. elastically suspenden on a grid
15:35 < kanzure> delinquentme: alexa is primarily a browser plugin that tracks where people go.. and it's installed on like 20k user's computers or somethig, really tiny user population
15:35 < AdrianG> you could go up to maybe 0.14mm
15:35 < ENKI-][> kanzure: let me put it this way. i'm extremely happy that someone is willingly fucking up her body in the name of experimentation so that someone else doesn't have to do it less willingly. i'm happy that lepht figured out that transdermal implants are dangerously vulnerable to catching on things, for instance.
15:35 < AdrianG> 9.5mm diameter or so
15:35 < AdrianG> zero space to work with
15:35 < kanzure> ENKI-][: but there's the thing- a lot of that was already known
15:35 < ENKI-][> the fact that lepht exists and documents her mistakes makes me much *less* likely to try to repeat them
15:36 < ENKI-][> well, known by whom?
15:36 < AdrianG> what did he do
15:36 < kanzure> by people who look shit up
15:36 < ThomasEgi> ENKI-][, no need to cut yourself up to learn bout transdermals :D medicin has enough bad examples for that. but then. some people found a way to get away with it using some sort of woven material. might have been dynema. not sure tho
15:36 < ENKI-][> not known by lepht, clearly. some of this was not known by me, and i look shit up compulsively.
15:36 < delinquentme> like correct me if im wrong here but you're always going to have people pushing the boundaries
15:36 < delinquentme> Id go so far as saying that *WE* are some of those people
15:36 < kanzure> that's not a boundary!
15:36 < kanzure> jeeze
15:37 < AdrianG> how does it cost to place some small circuits on a lens?
15:37 < AdrianG> like a small run in a fab
15:37 < delinquentme> kanzure, fact or opinion?
15:37 < AdrianG> how much*
15:37 < ThomasEgi> lepht had some not so bad idea. but she's lacking a lot of knowledge. she could've avoided most of her errors
15:37 < kanzure> delinquentme: fact.
15:37 < delinquentme> false.
15:37 < ENKI-][> delinquentme: that's exactly my point. better to have crazy suicidal people pushing boundaries and making examples of themselves willingly than mass produce a thing that'll kill sane people
15:37 < delinquentme> that is your opinion
15:37 < AdrianG> all you need is RGP lens + deposited circuits + coating
15:37 < kanzure> delinquentme: i think you just idolize lepht
15:37 < delinquentme> people implant chips into their pets for tracking and shit all the time
15:37 < AdrianG> fuck i should patent this
15:37 < kanzure> delinquentme: there's lots of other medical history about implants
15:37 < kanzure> not just pet implants
15:37 < kanzure> tell me how this is "groundbreaking" ?
15:38 < delinquentme> kanzure, lol I just don't want to point people at the door because they do things we're not comfy with
15:38 < kanzure> the point isn't to be groundbreaking or push boundaries at all, in the first place
15:38 < ThomasEgi> AdrianG, a lot. you'd want to have such an array custom made. and semiconductor labs arent cheap
15:38 < kanzure> so why would you say lepht is pushing boundaries? you're full of crap
15:38 < delinquentme> I totally agree that its not the ideal candidate ( someone who might be chopping for attention sake )
15:38 < delinquentme> but still!
15:38 < kanzure> it was "a simple at-home operation you can do to embed a magnet in your finger"
15:38 < kanzure> (or hand)
15:38 < delinquentme> kanzure, would you implant shit into your body that you designed?
15:38 < kanzure> not a magnet
15:39 < delinquentme> can we both agree that 100 years down the road well all be implanting shit into us?
15:39 < delinquentme> then case close its ground breaking
15:39 < kanzure> what does that have to do with anything?
15:39 < delinquentme> not in the cleanest of ways
15:39 < delinquentme> but it still is clearly something people are working towards
15:39 < kanzure> i think you're jumping the gun here... lots of people have implants already. lepht did not invent medical implants.
15:39 < kanzure> lepht also did not invent at-home magnet implants.
15:39 < delinquentme> true true but all I ask is dont kick them out :D
15:39 < delinquentme> tell them that I handle the crazies or something
15:39 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:40 < kanzure> i think lepth has done a net /negative/ service
15:40 < delinquentme> you know im off like that
15:40 < delinquentme> kanzure, maybe
15:40 < kanzure> *lepht
15:40 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, she did draw some attention. and gathered a bunch of interested people
15:40 < delinquentme> but perhaps our awesome selves could lend direction?
15:40 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: yeah... all the wrong kinds of attention
15:40 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/12/transcending-the-human-diy-style/
15:40 < ENKI-][> lepht has made a spectacular example of herself. people are less likely to cut themselves up because of her, because she has documented the results well and made them very easy to find for the kinds of people looking for them.
15:40 < delinquentme> kanzure, us walking around saying that we want to live forever
15:40 < delinquentme> in some peoples opinions
15:40 < kanzure> delinquentme: lepht has ignored most of us in here
15:40 < ThomasEgi> there are some rather skilled people amongst those "wrong" kinds"
15:40 < delinquentme> is bad publicity
15:41 < delinquentme> ^^
15:41 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: what does that have to do with promoting lepht
15:41 < kanzure> if these people are skilled, let them submit their own designs and projects
15:41 < ThomasEgi> not promoting her. just wanted to mention that not all things she did turned out to be negative
15:41 < kanzure> no, because now peopel think "biohacking" means "hacking up yer tendons bro!"
15:42 < ThomasEgi> in fact. lepht pretty much vanished after her show on the ccc
15:42 < kanzure> *people
15:42 < kanzure> how is this different from stelarc or something, anyway
15:42 < ThomasEgi> guess that would be grinding^
15:42 < ThomasEgi> biohacking is by far broader
15:43 < ThomasEgi> but wiring up your nerve systam . i would concider this to be part of biohacking too.
15:43 < kanzure> for sure.
15:43 < ENKI-][> oh
15:43 < kanzure> a lot of BMzine or whatever is about getting publicity and attention based on shock value (marketing)
15:43 < kanzure> let's stay away from that and focus on specific results instead.
15:44 < delinquentme> kanzure, you'd make a good father
15:44 < ENKI-][> ThomasEgi: i read her blag. sometime shortly after her talk at the CCC she went into a depressive spiral for six months, constructed an 'exit hood', then decided against it, then lost her source of income and barely ate anything for a few months, then came back to take exams.
15:44 < delinquentme> but really do you want to take on the responsibility of sheltering the world from the extremes?
15:44 < ENKI-][> as a result of this her real name and address was leaked
15:44 < ENKI-][> kind of interesting
15:44 < kanzure> i'm not "sheltering the world", i'm trying to keep this channel on-topic and doing great work
15:45 < delinquentme> kanzure, just dont kick out the crazies please
15:45 < ThomasEgi> ENKI-][, she's an interesting personality for sure.
15:45 < kanzure> making up new freakshows isn't particularly useful
15:45 < ENKI-][> i mean, interesting in a car wreck kind of way
15:45 < delinquentme> lolol
15:45 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, oh come on. we all need some entertainment every now and then
15:45 < ENKI-][> maybe i should finish reading Crash. i wouldn't feel so guilty about finding her hot
15:45 < delinquentme> and there are plenty of interesting projects going on here that maybe we've got a impressionable INTELLIGENT mind to add to the group
15:46 < delinquentme> you WANT the ones who say FUCK EVERYONE
15:46 < ENKI-][> *shrug*
15:46 < kanzure> delinquentme: that's not what we're talking about here
15:46 < delinquentme> afterall thats who WE are
15:46 < delinquentme> we're saying normal society is busted
15:46 < delinquentme> she thinks the same way
15:46 < kanzure> also, lepht effectively said "fuck you" to the biohacking community- never communicates or collaborates or acknowledges its existence
15:46 < ENKI-][> reasonable people don't typically contribute nearly as much as people driven by insatiable neuroses
15:46 < kanzure> which is fine, there is no obligation to
15:46 < delinquentme> I think I agree w ENKI-][
15:46 < kanzure> but you should notice that trend.
15:47 < delinquentme> notice what trend?
15:47 < ENKI-][> so long as the distribution of neuroses is even, we should average out to something reasonable
15:47 < delinquentme> just realize that being the agressor here
15:47 < kanzure> delinquentme: the trend i explained about lepht not engaging with the existing biohacking scene. a little strange aint it?
15:47 < delinquentme> IDK .. is it a good idea?
15:47 < kanzure> yes it is
15:47 < delinquentme> kanzure, listen you're talking about someone whos got some issues
15:48 < delinquentme> just try to give that father compassion to her
15:48 < kanzure> yes. those issues should be separated from 'diy transhumanism' and 'biohacking'.
15:48 < delinquentme> because shes too advanced and ballsy?
15:48 < delinquentme> that sounds stupid
15:48 < kanzure> no?
15:48 < delinquentme> as stated.
15:48 < delinquentme> you know well be doing this 100 years in the future
15:48 < ENKI-][> because she's self-destructive, maybe.
15:48 < delinquentme> what designates it as too early
15:48 < kanzure> you're putting words into my mouth. i didn't say she was ballsy.
15:48 < delinquentme> ENKI-][, is she dead?
15:48 < delinquentme> I said she was ballsy
15:48 < ThomasEgi> delinquentme, if you are talking bout implants. they are pretty standard , today already
15:48 < ENKI-][> but i don't think she's going to trick sane people into cutting themselves open
15:49 < kanzure> ENKI-][: i think she has :)
15:49 < ThomasEgi> ENKI-][, that was not her goal
15:49 < ENKI-][> delinquentme: not yet, so far as i can tell.
15:49 < delinquentme> kanzure, why do you want to exclude people
15:49 < delinquentme> ?
15:49 < kanzure> delinquentme: nothing about that is 'ballsy'. you know what those neuroses are ? not healthy.
15:49 < delinquentme> kanzure, as stated by you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
15:49 < delinquentme> for fuck sake
15:49 < delinquentme> you dont want to die!
15:49 < kanzure> neuroses are common medical terms
15:50 < delinquentme> I DONT WANT TO DIE
15:50 < kanzure> what does that have to do with marketing yourself as a freakshow?
15:50 < delinquentme> thats a fucking neurosis as defined by 90% of humanity
15:50 < kanzure> what the hell man
15:50 < delinquentme> for christ sakes frame this shit
15:50 < kanzure> ok, that's not the one we're talking about
15:50 < ENKI-][> delinquentme: she goes through very long periods of being damned close. but, she has all sorts of health problems entirely unrelated to cutting herself open.
15:50 < kanzure> nothing about this conversation was about longevity
15:50 < delinquentme> Oh ok awesome so lets just let this poor girl sit alone because shes weird to us
15:50 < delinquentme> THAT is fucking stupid
15:50 < ENKI-][> >.>
15:50 < kanzure> what ? i reached out on multiple occassions, heard nothing
15:50 < delinquentme> Bryan Bishop this conversation is about pushing limits and who regards who as crazy
15:51 < delinquentme> YOU say shes crazy
15:51 < kanzure> plus, the biohacking and diy transhumanism groups have been around for a while - heard nothing too
15:51 < delinquentme> SOCIETY says WERE crazy
15:51 < ENKI-][> you came into this conversation a little late, delinquentme. i think you should go read her blog.
15:51 < delinquentme> Explain how we are so far apart
15:51 < kanzure> that's not pushing limits
15:51 < kanzure> we've already went over this.
15:51 < ENKI-][> because the rest of us know a whole lot more about lepht than you do.
15:51 < delinquentme> ENKI-][, i see a kid whos obviously interested and who doesnt quite have direction
15:51 < delinquentme> IM that kid
15:52 < delinquentme> ok
15:52 < delinquentme> THAT is why
15:52 < kanzure> delinquentme: we have offered you lots of direction
15:52 < kanzure> also, you're not marketing yourself as a freakazoid representing biohacking to the FBI or something
15:52 < delinquentme> you're missing the point kanzure
15:52 < ENKI-][> delinquentme: this is irrelevant to the subject of lepht. as i said, i think you should read her blog and get context.
15:52 * ThomasEgi totaly lost this conversation...
15:52 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: i'm just as confused as you are
15:52 < delinquentme> kanzure, just dont kick crazies out
15:52 < delinquentme> please
15:53 < delinquentme> i have infographics to go make
15:53 < ENKI-][> >.>
15:53 < kanzure> are you talking about flamoot?
15:53 < ENKI-][> i don't think she's +b.
15:53 < ENKI-][> huh
15:53 < ThomasEgi> delinquentme, i totaly don't get your point. please dont take that personally but i cant follow your thoughts at all.
15:53 < ENKI-][> was flamoot here?
15:53 < kanzure> she's never made contact with the diybio, biohacking or other subscenes at all
15:53 < delinquentme> ThomasEgi, my point is this
15:53 < kanzure> ENKI-][: yes, for years..
15:53 < ENKI-][> i never ran into him
15:53 < delinquentme> please dont kick people out of the channel because you happen to regard them as a little wilder than you
15:53 < kanzure> ENKI-][: he is a smart guy. totally banned on 4chan for a reason.
15:54 < delinquentme> SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE
15:54 < delinquentme> we are the crazies .. we are those people who are a little wilder than 90% of society
15:54 < kanzure> delinquentme: nothing about this is about someone being "wilder than me", believe me
15:54 < delinquentme> GRok this please
15:54 < ENKI-][> he gave me his wonderful yet totally incomprehensible bot
15:54 < ThomasEgi> nothing was about kicking anyone off a channel either?
15:54 < delinquentme> kanzure, lets not argue semantics
15:54 < kanzure> i am not the standard for 'wild'
15:54 < delinquentme> you understand what im saying
15:54 < kanzure> delinquentme: actually no, i don't.
15:54 < delinquentme> uncomfortable / crazy / nuts / etc etc etc
15:54 < delinquentme> put in whatever TERM you want
15:55 < delinquentme> Just because she does things that YOU PERSONALLY think are bad
15:55 < delinquentme> dont fucking boot them
15:55 < delinquentme> im saying in the context of this specific channel
15:55 < ThomasEgi> delinquentme, noone is booting anyone?
15:55 < delinquentme> thats what I was on about
15:55 < ENKI-][> delinquentme: we have not kicked lepht out of the channel, nor have we ostracized her. we certainly have not ostracized her for being strange. we are simply not in general agreement over whether or not people will be influenced by her to cut themselves open who would not otherwise cut themselves open.
15:55 < delinquentme> so! then we're good
15:56 < delinquentme> I have a certain propensity to the crazies
15:56 < delinquentme> I think they're probably hugely intelligent
15:56 < delinquentme> and they're put down constantly by people .. SO lets not be those people
15:56 < ThomasEgi> ENKI-][, talking about that, i doubt she'll influence anyone to cut themselves open. maybe only inspirating those who had the desire to do that anyway. giving them a few ideas etc.
15:56 < delinquentme> and instead recruit an ally
15:56 < delinquentme> =]
15:56 < ENKI-][> kanzure: from the way he writes python code, i suspect that flamoot might be schizophrenic. would you agree with this analysis?
15:56 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: that's the problem
15:57 * delinquentme dismounts the yelling block
15:57 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: they are calling that biohacking and transhumanism now, which is bullshit
15:57 < kanzure> this is why lepht is causing net harm
15:57 < delinquentme> kanzure, that sounds like someone who is ignorant of the commnity
15:57 < kanzure> ENKI-][: flamoot is a known schizophrenic
15:57 < ENKI-][> ah
15:57 < ThomasEgi> what L is doing is grinding afai can tell.
15:57 < kanzure> ENKI-][: i think archels has personally met flamoot
15:57 < delinquentme> soooo some hick in a country bar talking about crazy shit
15:57 < kanzure> ENKI-][: i could be wrong it might be augur? :x
15:58 < ENKI-][> *shrug*
15:58 < ThomasEgi> given, it was taken up by some people with more scientific backgrounds. who are now working on more sophisticated implants that allow human-machine interfacing.
15:58 < kanzure> "it was taken up" what is "it"
15:58 < ThomasEgi> that very rudimentary grinding lepht performed
15:59 < kanzure> i don't think that's true. there's a long history of medical implant technology that lepht is completely unrelated to.
15:59 < ThomasEgi> sure. but there's been very little history about non medical implants
15:59 < ENKI-][> kanzure: anyhow, one of the ops in ##ai had a long flamewar with flamoot's bot, until i told him it was a bot. he didn't believe me, and then i eventually convinced him and he kickbanned both of us. i found out later from gareth nelson that the guy had been until recently in ben goertzel's employ working on cog's PLN system
16:00 < delinquentme> someones talking microfluidics on diybio
16:00 < ThomasEgi> while pacemakers are very common. wiring up neurons to extend a human bodys capabilities is not common at all
16:00 < ENKI-][> lepht ain't doing that, for sure. and, also, that was being done initially by researchers in the early 90s
16:01 < ThomasEgi> true
16:01 < ThomasEgi> but if technologie doesnt get out of a lab. it aint of much use.
16:01 < ENKI-][> lepht was being semi-professional with the compass thing, and having someone else do the designs and such, and was going to have it implanted by an actual surgeon. she seems to have dropped it, which is too bad
16:01 < kanzure> ENKI-][: that sounds more interesting to me
16:02 < ENKI-][> the southpaw?
16:02 < kanzure> (except, the compass thing sounds mostly useless)
16:02 < kanzure> no
16:02 < ENKI-][> *shrug*
16:02 < kanzure> getting someone else to look over the designs, and having an additional surgeon
16:02 < kanzure> is what i meant.
16:02 < ENKI-][> well, yeah
16:02 < kanzure> even quinn norton had an extra person to do the surgery
16:02 < kanzure> and todd.
16:02 < ENKI-][> i mean, half her finger magnets were done by a professional
16:02 < delinquentme> well yeah thats just a good practice
16:02 < delinquentme> half =]
16:02 < kanzure> delinquentme: she was advocating for, uh, not doing that
16:02 < delinquentme> =/ **
16:02 < ENKI-][> she did the rest herself because she didn't have the money to fly to the united states
16:02 < kanzure> delinquentme: i think you shouldn't put so much trust in your crazies
16:03 < kanzure> delinquentme: think for yourself
16:03 < ENKI-][> and they won't do that for you in the UK
16:03 < delinquentme> kanzure, which sounds like the exact reason she should get a 2nd opinion from someone she might trust
16:03 < ENKI-][> at least, that's what she said... everywhere
16:03 < ThomasEgi> trusting people can be difficult
16:03 < delinquentme> this is true
16:03 < kanzure> delinquentme: crazies have problems with trust
16:03 < delinquentme> lol yeah
16:03 < ENKI-][> >.>
16:04 < ENKI-][> kanzure: you knew that most of her implants were done by professionals, right?
16:04 < delinquentme> but like if everyone regards you as some kind of lunatic
16:04 < delinquentme> well you're not getting good help from them
16:04 < delinquentme> at least we could have advocated some kind of DIY silicon or something
16:04 < delinquentme> i know it sounds terrible as it is
16:04 < delinquentme> and the fingertips
16:05 < delinquentme> gaah
16:05 < delinquentme> no thanks
16:05 < ThomasEgi> hehe.
16:05 < kanzure> ENKI-][: more or less, yes
16:05 < ThomasEgi> fingertips do hurt^
16:05 < kanzure> ENKI-][: still, when you have 2 youtube videos and 50% of your content is "Me screaming in pain/agony"...
16:05 < delinquentme> lol yeah like
16:05 < delinquentme> kanzure, i see what you're saying its totally like some suicidial reminiscent stuff
16:05 < ENKI-][> kanzure: well, yeah. i mean, that got a lot of press compared to everything else, because media like pathos.
16:05 < delinquentme> ^^^^
16:06 < delinquentme> tis true
16:06 < delinquentme> TIL the NYT said the internet was a fad in 2008
16:06 < delinquentme> and we should all get back to reading news papers
16:06 < ThomasEgi> i should mention that the latest idea about those magnets is to use PTFE coated stirring bars. tiny enough to be injected with a hypodermic needle. makes implantation a lot easier
16:06 < kanzure> stop using redditisms >:(
16:06 < delinquentme> lol
16:06 < ENKI-][> kanzure: but at least ostensibly she wasn't doing it that way for shits and giggles, and at least ostensibly she didn't intend to suggest that other people should cut themselves up.
16:07 < kanzure> ENKI-][: actually, she *was* doing it for shits and giggles. one sec.
16:07 < AdrianG> anyone knows who thyla_lrb is ?
16:07 < kanzure> "i have been known to slice my arms open for shits'n'giggles, sure, and do a fair amount of damage in the process (none of this emo cat-scratch bullshit, i've split my arm to the tendons like the little psychopath i sort of am), but this is not something i do when properly medicated. i need a better way of communicating that."
16:07 -!- jmil [~jmil@173-161-142-133-Philadelphia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: jmil]
16:08 < delinquentme> lol
16:08 < delinquentme> so yes unstable
16:08 < kanzure> in general i do not support that being what we show the media as the face of 'diy transhumanism' and 'biohacking'
16:08 < ENKI-][> kanzure: it's arguably a sign of mental instability to prefer doing unanesthetized surgery on your fingertips by yourself over not having magnets there, but that's a different story
16:08 < kanzure> absolutely not.
16:08 < delinquentme> reminds me of the girl from firefly
16:08 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, i agree on the media thing. none the less, it is an interesting area of research, if done properly
16:08 < delinquentme> ^^^^^^^^^^^
16:08 < delinquentme> As soon as we've got proven methods for information uploads
16:09 < delinquentme> IM WITH IT
16:09 < ThomasEgi> delinquentme, working on it :)
16:09 < ThomasEgi> stuffing wikipedia in your arm aint terribly difficult these days
16:09 < ThomasEgi> it fits on a microSD card after all
16:09 < ENKI-][> kanzure: and, a lot of people have periods of suicidal violence. saying that it reflects badly on the DIYbio community is a little strange; a much higher percentage of highschoolers do it than transhumanists, and the intent is never transhumanist.
16:09 < delinquentme> lolol
16:09 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: i've already explained my position on that argument (it's not particularly useful, so i don't see it as an interesting avenue to explore - magnets in finger tips seems like a dead end, compared to other implants)
16:09 < delinquentme> kanzure, agreed!
16:09 < ENKI-][> kanzure: in other words, the quote you pasted works *against* your argument
16:10 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, it aint terribly usefull, but it is an interesting experience.
16:10 < delinquentme> thats another thing .. its like " Okay " ... " What does it do? "
16:10 < ThomasEgi> like a way to get started with the topic
16:10 < kanzure> ENKI-][: you think that suicidal violence is an okay thing to support? what? please explain
16:10 < delinquentme> IDK
16:10 < delinquentme> isnt it just like all the problem kids
16:10 < delinquentme> lol
16:10 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: i think there are many other ways to get started in transhumanism: molecular biology, neurophysiology, nootropics, etc.
16:10 < delinquentme> they just need direction
16:11 < delinquentme> PS how many people call you nuts for being deeply interested in noots?
16:11 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: wearable computing is probably the first one i should mention :/
16:11 < ENKI-][> kanzure: i don't see how not vocally objecting to someone performing something that is clearly not suicidal violence is equivalent to supporting suicidal violence.
16:11 < kanzure> delinquentme: absolutely none.
16:11 < delinquentme> you take a walk down to somewhere in mississippi and youll find plenty
16:11 < delinquentme> bible belt?
16:11 < delinquentme> yeap! those guys too
16:11 < kanzure> why would i talk to them?
16:11 < delinquentme> kanzure, how can you say "absolutely none"
16:12 < delinquentme> question mark
16:12 < kanzure> well, most of my friends are transhumanist
16:12 < delinquentme> like thats a stretch
16:12 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, well. at some point you need rat labs right?
16:12 < kanzure> i have many many transhumansit friends
16:12 < delinquentme> LOL!
16:12 < delinquentme> ThomasEgi, << thinking aheard
16:12 < delinquentme> ahead**
16:12 < kanzure> delinquentme: i just don't see the point in arguing about politics, religion or whatever with your bible belt.. doesn't seem productive ?
16:12 < delinquentme> kanzure, this is true.
16:13 < kanzure> i'd be happy to know them in more limited capacities, but trying to argue about the intricacies of quantum electrodynamics with a bible thumper seems like a hopeless pasttime?
16:13 < ENKI-][> heh
16:13 < ThomasEgi> indeed. one of the most efficient ways to kill your productive time and to rise your blood pressure
16:14 < ENKI-][> arguing about quantum electrodynamics with me is hopeless, too. i hope that's not your heuristic for determining whether or not someone is worthwhile to talk to
16:14 < kanzure> ENKI-][: that's my heuristic for whether or not you are worthwhile to talk to about QED in particular
16:14 < ThomasEgi> ENKI-][, at least you wont try to end any discussion with the argument that it's a miracle of god^
16:14 < kanzure> unless i'm explaining things to you, etc.
16:14 < delinquentme> kanzure, sounds masochistic
16:15 < kanzure> what? talking to ENKI-][ ?
16:15 < delinquentme> LOL no bible thumpers
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16:15 < kanzure> you were the one who brought it up
16:15 < delinquentme> ENKI-][, is good people
16:18 < delinquentme> anyone know of startups working in the open journal space?
16:19 < kanzure> don't know why there would be a startup for that
16:19 < kanzure> just use ojs
16:19 < kanzure> there is at least one company that offers hosted ojs installations
16:20 < kanzure> but their prices seemed obnoxiously high (>$500/mo?)
16:21 < delinquentme> hosted open journals?
16:22 < delinquentme> lol is that $500 dollar / month web hosting @_@_
16:22 < kanzure> it'
16:22 < kanzure> it's hosted ojs installations
16:22 < kanzure> so it's like restricted web hosting (just one thing installed)
16:24 < delinquentme> is OJS a service ?
16:24 < delinquentme> or ojs = open journal space?
16:25 < kanzure> ojs is open journal system, some random set of php files
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16:27 < delinquentme> kanzure, who is this company charging this??
16:27 < kanzure> i don't know, look it up
16:28 < kanzure> https://www.google.com/search?gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=open+journal+system+hosted
16:28 < kanzure> http://pkp.sfu.ca/?q=ojs
16:28 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Journal_Systems
16:28 < delinquentme> ftp://ftp.ncbi.nih.gov/pubmed/J_Entrez.txt << This is an incredibly long list of journals
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16:28 < kanzure> you want this one, i think
16:28 < kanzure> ftp://ftp.ncbi.nih.gov/pubmed/jourcache.xml
16:30 < delinquentme> that is big page
16:35 < ENKI-][> heh
16:35 < ENKI-][> why aren't we running our own ojs installs? i mean, dedicated host machines are what, like ten bucks a month?
16:37 < kanzure> ENKI-][: because ojs isn't that useful? :p
16:37 < kanzure> ENKI-][: what would this ojs installation be doing for us?
16:37 < kanzure> wire bending machine: http://blog.pensanyc.com/tagged/DIWire
16:40 < ENKI-][> i dunno
16:40 < ENKI-][> whatever it usually does that delinquentme wants it for?
16:40 < ENKI-][> btw, http://www.modernmythology.net/2012/05/body-modification-freak-or-not-freak.html relevant to our earlier discussion maybe
16:41 < delinquentme> sounds like super easy SEO solution
16:41 < delinquentme> advertise on the company's KWs
16:41 < delinquentme> sell them $500 dollar hosting
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16:55 < kanzure> ENKI-][: eh? neither rex church or lukyanova are trying to represent diy transhumanism or biohacking. they seem to be on personal quests to feel ok with their bodies.
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17:07 < ENKI-][> kanzure: that's tangential.
17:08 < ENKI-][> i don't think anybody thinks that emotionally damaged goths who cut themselves with scalpels are typical transhumanists
17:08 < kanzure> you'd be surprised what the media can convey
17:08 < ENKI-][> the view of transhumanism by the mundanes is probably closer to "middle-aged nerds who got lucky in the dot com boom"
17:09 < ENKI-][> if not something closer to kurzweil
17:09 < ENKI-][> you know, seventy-something geezers who don't want to die
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17:21 < AdrianG> nobody wants to die
17:21 < AdrianG> it just needs to become a more accepted notion
17:22 < delinquentme> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6
17:22 < delinquentme> that and most people feel helpless
17:22 < delinquentme> I mean life eternal is what any religion offers us right?
17:22 < AdrianG> old age sux
17:22 < AdrianG> i just dont like the infirmity part of it
17:22 < AdrianG> im ok with death
17:23 < AdrianG> frailty and all, no thx
17:24 < eudoxia> dammit i missed the lepht discussion
17:24 < delinquentme> eudoxia, :D
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17:26 < eudoxia> she would be cool if it wasn't for the whole genderless woo hoo thing
17:27 < AdrianG> who is it
17:27 < AdrianG> speaking of emotionally damaged
17:28 < AdrianG> we just had a mentally ill pedo raging for hours
17:28 < AdrianG> in #philosophy
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17:37 < nmz7871> hi fenn
17:38 < fenn> hi
17:40 < kanzure> nmz7871: what do you think about that colorimeter kickstarter?
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17:53 < ParahSailin> http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/20224373.jpg
17:56 < JayDugger> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/iorodeo-colorimeter/educational-colorimeter-kit?ref=live
17:56 < JayDugger> I'd have a little more confidence in the quality of their proposal if the opening video had better lighting,
17:57 < JayDugger> given that they have an optical measuring device as their aim.
17:58 < JayDugger> I've used chromaticity meters quite a lot, but I've not used a colorimeter, and I'll defer to someone more experienced with such meters.
18:00 < JayDugger> And good evening, everyone,
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18:12 < kanzure> JayDugger: i asked nmz7871 because of his involvement with http://openspectrometer.com/ and that kickstarter
18:13 < JayDugger> Ah-ha! that looks much more useful.
18:36 < nmz7871> JayDugger: the colorimeter is sort of a form of a monochromator spectrometer... except that it only has three color sources
18:38 < nmz7871> there was also this project http://openwetware.org/wiki/Citizen_Science/The_Urinomics_Project
18:38 < nmz7871> for the price and availability now, i think the iorodeo colorimeter is a cool project, but I want more spectrum than 3 colors :/
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19:07 < delinquentme> can someone grab this paper for me : http://www.sciencemag.org/content/330/6009/1355.full
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19:13 < delinquentme> OOC does anyone else do intermittent fasting?
19:13 < delinquentme> ive got this weird tightness in my throat that happens when I fast
19:13 < delinquentme> any ideas?
19:14 < delinquentme> feels almost like a mild tongue cramp
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19:17 < roksprok> delinquentme: how long do you fast? would you suggest others do it? I have been thinking of just not eating 1 day a week
19:18 < delinquentme> roksprok, its phenomenal
19:18 < delinquentme> ive maxed out @ 3 days on nothing but water and coffee
19:18 < delinquentme> like just dont get bored
19:18 < delinquentme> lol cause youll want to eat
19:18 < delinquentme> i problem solved like a CHAMP through those 3 days
19:18 < roksprok> ok will try it...it would be nice to have a way of doing like a blind test
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19:29 < ParahSailin> i usually only eat after 7
19:35 < JayDugger> delinquentme: I've been practicing I.F. since last October.
19:36 < delinquentme> after talking a a number of people it makes sense that I had awesome even keel focus
19:36 < delinquentme> like there was zero fluctuation in my blood sugar
19:36 < delinquentme> well minimal fluctuation
19:36 < JayDugger> Did you also restrict your carbohydrate intake?
19:36 < delinquentme> well I ate nothing for 3 days
19:37 < delinquentme> right now im not eating carbs
19:37 < delinquentme> totes in a state of ketosis
19:37 < delinquentme> mouth stank =/
19:37 < JayDugger> Have you checked that with ketostrips or some other product?
19:37 < JayDugger> Yeah, the halitosis...it ends after a while.
19:37 < kanzure> fenn: what's up?
19:38 < JayDugger> I chewed a lot of gum until it eased.
19:39 < delinquentme> oh it eases??
19:39 < JayDugger> Yeah, after about six weeks, IIRC.
19:39 < delinquentme> and is haliosis the mouth stink?
19:39 < JayDugger> Yes.
19:40 < delinquentme> you currently cutting carbs?
19:40 < JayDugger> The waves of hunger pangs, again in my case, also eased.
19:40 < JayDugger> Yes. I started that about seven years ago.
19:40 < delinquentme> whats your diet like?
19:40 < delinquentme> are you like ripped as shit?
19:40 < JayDugger> According to my wife, green slime.
19:40 < delinquentme> ha!
19:41 < JayDugger> No, but I don't exercise.
19:41 < delinquentme> ohhh
19:41 < JayDugger> A few miles of walking on the weekends, but that's all.
19:41 < delinquentme> why the diet?
19:41 < JayDugger> It saves money, it saves time, it avoids obesity and diabetes.
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19:42 < JayDugger> It also seems the very easiest way to practice caloric restriction.
19:43 < JayDugger> My wife's green slime joke comes from my habit of eating large amounts of spirulina and chlorella as a soup.
19:43 < JayDugger> Very nutritious, and it tastes like mud.
19:43 < kanzure> hrm. why don't i eat spirulina?
19:43 < JayDugger> It tastes like fish food?
19:44 < kanzure> taste isn't a primary factor in my food intake
19:44 < JayDugger> Sorry, I started in mid-November 2011.
19:45 < delinquentme> lol
19:45 < delinquentme> i really like food =/
19:45 < JayDugger> https://plus.google.com/u/0/105782463245064497111/posts/117rdhAArfi
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19:46 < JayDugger> That Google+ thread comes closest to serving as a record of my I.F..
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19:46 < JayDugger> I stopped eating any foods with more than 10 g of sugar per serving some years ago. It took me three or four years to taper off, though, and it got easier and easier.
19:47 < JayDugger> I make an exception for fruits, and some dark chocolate comes in under the limit.
19:48 < delinquentme> yeahh dark chocolate
19:48 < delinquentme> i eat waaay too many sweets
19:48 < JayDugger> I used to do that too.
19:48 < delinquentme> 4 years to get used to it you say?
19:48 < delinquentme> Effff
19:49 < delinquentme> i was hoping to be off the diet in like 4 weeks
19:49 < JayDugger> Sweet tooth: Get me a fix!
19:49 < JayDugger> Me: yes, master.
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19:49 < delinquentme> hahah
19:49 < delinquentme> you do have a point
19:49 < JayDugger> Oh, well...four years to "give up" sugar.
19:49 < delinquentme> above link = busted
19:50 < JayDugger> Crud. Google+ permissions.
19:50 -!- AdrianG_ is now known as AdrianG
19:50 < JayDugger> Add me on G+, that should fix it.
19:51 < JayDugger> My family has a history of diabetes, and that helped me reduce sugar intake.
19:51 < JayDugger> As for the long-term nature of the project, consider this.
19:51 < JayDugger> You plan to live to see 2016, four years from now.
19:51 < JayDugger> This means you can undertake a long-term project.
19:52 < JayDugger> You can trade off effort with time, and plenty of time can mean less effort.
19:52 < JayDugger> If you fall off the wagon, so to speak, just remount and continue.
19:53 < JayDugger> The only real complicating factor in my diet comes from teetotaling. I just don't like alcohol, so I don't exactly suffer from that.
19:53 < JayDugger> The social aspects of missing meals also lie outside my experience. I only have company at meals on special occasions.
19:55 < JayDugger> Oh, and you can try adding coconut oil and high-quality unsalted butter to your coffee. It is a bit of an acquired taste, but I find it makes I.F. easier.
19:55 < JayDugger>
19:57 < delinquentme> patri is about the butter in the coffee
19:57 < JayDugger> Yeah, I like it too.
19:57 < kanzure> any advice for fighting some mediawiki spam?
19:58 < JayDugger> No, I am sorry. No experience there.
19:58 < JayDugger> You might also get chills when starting I.F. That ends too, after 3-6 weeks.
19:58 < delinquentme> JayDugger, can I get you to email that excerpt to me?
19:59 < delinquentme> a few parts it seems were cut off?
19:59 < ParahSailin> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/09/world/europe/amsterdam-tries-to-change-culture-with-repair-cafes.html?_r=1
20:01 < JayDugger> Good night, everyone.
20:02 < delinquentme> later JayDugger
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21:19 < kanzure> NonFish_: hola
21:19 < NonFish_> hi
21:27 < delinquentme> all!
21:27 < delinquentme> Goodnight!
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