--- Log opened Sat Jun 02 00:00:28 2012 00:17 -!- neuro-sys [~neuro@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:50 -!- JayDugger1 [~duggerj@pool-173-74-79-122.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:51 -!- Mokbortolan_1 [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:53 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:43 < archels> kanzure: How's your FBI presentation coming along? 01:44 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-79-122.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:58 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:18 -!- rigel [~rigel@c-76-105-237-98.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:18 < rigel> oh ffs 02:18 < rigel> transhumanism? 02:18 < rigel> really? 02:18 < rigel> christ almighty 02:20 < strangewarp> You seem to have encountered some wacky transhumanists, or wacky reportage about transhumanists, maybe? Don't worry - this channel is for the professional ones who aren't crazy 02:45 < joshcryer> I don't mind the crazy ones. 02:50 < rigel> yeah, so people other than ray kurzweil et al? 02:51 < rigel> because i'm not sure what "transhumanist" means outside of "crazy robophiliac" 02:51 < rigel> even nootropics is something i have experimented with and found to be largely a dead end 02:52 < rigel> you know, i read some books 20 years ago and then bought some drugs like 10-15 ago, and the experimentation thing was neat but going back and looking at the data the rationale was supposedly based on, i get all tongue-clucking and nostalgic for youthful stupidity 02:53 < rigel> open hardware, definitely something i can get behind 02:54 < joshcryer> That's where I am most interested. 02:54 < rigel> biohacking, a little dnagerous (ha!), something i wouldnt let my children do, but as a molecular biologist and lifelong tinkerer i can understand the motivating idea behind 02:58 < rigel> anyway, i came here referred by a github project, i think maybe pyphantomjs? 03:42 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-5-109.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:58 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:03 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr.inka-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:03 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr.inka-online.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:03 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:24 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:47 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has quit [] 05:07 < kanzure> http://watchdocumentary.com/ 05:07 < kanzure> archels: check the backlogs for the link 05:07 < kanzure> rigel: yeah we really hate ray kurzweil 05:08 < kanzure> rigel: also, i'm glad you got here by pyphantomjs :) that's absolutely awesome. 05:16 -!- neuro-sys [~neuro@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974] has quit [Quit: |] 05:49 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:02 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:04 -!- neuro-sys [~neuro@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:15 < Mariu> what's wrong with Ray ? 06:15 < Mariu> :p 06:53 < archels> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/nucleic/fbi-diybio-dna-v1.pdf 07:17 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-178-56.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:26 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-178-56.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:26 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-178-56.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:17 -!- neuro-sys [~neuro@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974] has quit [Quit: |] 08:35 < eudoxia> ray has his moments 08:36 < eudoxia> sometimes he's okay, then out of nowhere he goes on these pseudo-religious "in the future..." tirades that are more fit for an Orion's Arm fanfic 08:44 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-24-63-135-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:45 < gedankenstuecke> clear 08:45 < gedankenstuecke> whops, missing / 08:54 -!- Thorbinator [~Thorbinat@c-67-166-146-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:55 -!- Thorbinator [~Thorbinat@c-67-166-146-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:59 < JayDugger> Well said, Eudoxia. 09:06 < kanzure> archels: yes 09:21 < archels> kanzure: Are there any slide notes? 09:23 < kanzure> no, but there's a recordig somewhere 09:23 < kanzure> *recording 09:35 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-178-56.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:35 -!- neuro-sys [~neuro@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:41 -!- neuro-sys [~neuro@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974] has quit [Quit: |] 10:01 < archels> kanzure: Just audio or also a video presentation? 10:01 < kanzure> no video yet 10:01 < kanzure> haven't presented 10:09 < Mokbortolan_1> IE6 simulator: http://mrdoob.com/lab/javascript/effects/ie6/ 10:10 < kanzure> why would you make such an awful thing 10:10 < Mariu> Internet Explorer 6 ? 10:10 < bkero> Wahahaha 10:11 < Mariu> lol 10:12 < audy> hahaha 10:12 < audy> it's beautiful 10:13 < audy> I like how the image is stored as a string 10:15 < bkero> It makes me want to cry tears of HTML. 10:21 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-81-21-7.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:04 < rigel> as a working scientist in a concrete field, i find it laughable that mr. kurzweil thinks he can quantify the amount of information "we" have access to collectively 11:04 < rigel> or knowledge, whatever 11:04 < kanzure> rigel: you might be interested in reading this rebuttal to ray.. http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ 11:04 < rigel> actually, no i wouldnt 11:04 < bkero> 'how much is available to the internet at large'? 11:05 < rigel> because this is the most brainpower i'eve spent considering kurzweil in the last 10 years and i think its been more than enough 11:05 < rigel> let's move on 11:05 < kanzure> rigel: okay. well, anyway, you don't have to try to convince us against ray in here. that's sorta like preaching to the choir. 11:05 < Mariu> lol 11:06 < kanzure> rigel: for all of ray's preaching, he's not really learned anything new in the past 30 years 11:07 < kanzure> like, none of the "futurists" have acquired deep knowledge of molecular biology 11:07 < kanzure> or even of making software or intricate chemistries to advance their goals 11:07 < Mariu> what if they hire people ? 11:07 < kanzure> he doesn't, though 11:08 < kanzure> he pays amara about $11/hour to post to kurzweilai.net 11:08 < kanzure> and sometimes hires tom for $8/hour to write the other awful articles 11:08 < rigel> wow, no not only an ignorant douche, but a skinflint too 11:08 < rigel> s/no/so/ 11:08 < kanzure> yes i am an ignorant douche 11:08 < kanzure> please make me less ignorant 11:10 < rigel> i think a good heuristic is that anyone associated with the long now foundation is an arrogant fuckhole 11:11 < rigel> also a dumbshit 11:11 < rigel> see also: j craig venter 11:11 < kanzure> haha 11:11 < kanzure> let's hear it about craig 11:11 < kanzure> i was talking with his company (synthetic genomics) a few weeks ago 11:11 < kanzure> so i'd love to hear your take on him 11:12 < kanzure> rigel: btw this was because i'm working on an open-source microfluidic dna synthesizer 11:12 < rigel> well anyone that self-aggrandizing is pulling an edison, i.e. taking all the fame for others' ideas and implementation 11:12 < rigel> neat 11:13 < kanzure> oh sure 11:13 < rigel> im interested in these newfangled open source pcr doohickers for confirmation of infection in developing countries 11:13 < kanzure> he deinitely has an inflated ego 11:13 < kanzure> but he's basically the only name popularly associated with the human genome project 11:13 < kanzure> and plus, all of celera's bullshit with charging for that data 11:14 < rigel> he did one thing that was enabled by massive wealth, which was essentially a brute-force algorighm made material, like 15 years ago now almost, and noone has stopped sucking his dick since then 11:15 < jrayhawk> self-advocacy is rather important in marketing scientific knowhow to businesses 11:15 < jrayhawk> somebody has to be the loud jerk to get things done 11:15 < rigel> in the meantime, what has the human genome gotten us? not a whole lot in terms of concrete therapeutics, but it certainly perverted the popular notion of genes and reinforced ideas of genetic determinism 11:15 < kanzure> it has lowered the cost of dna sequencing 11:15 < rigel> yeah well, fuck businesses 11:15 < rigel> to what end? 11:15 < rigel> now we have a bunch of data pollution 11:15 < rigel> because we dont know how to fucking mine it 11:15 < kanzure> ncbi seems pretty well organized to me 11:16 < rigel> we dont know which parts are salient and which arent 11:16 < kanzure> have you checked their lame ftp server? 11:16 < kanzure> they also have lots of annotation datasets 11:16 < rigel> we were calling whole stretches "junk dna" for a decade 11:16 < kanzure> who is? 11:16 < kanzure> strawman 11:16 < rigel> everyone was while i was going to school 11:16 < kanzure> ok, well, stop going to school 11:16 < kanzure> that's your first step 11:16 < rigel> from 2000-2004, and its only in the last 4 years or so that people have stopped 11:17 < rigel> i first heard the phrase "we used to call this junk dna, but" in 2009 11:18 < jrayhawk> gosh, how awful learning things is 11:18 < kanzure> rigel: have you worked in a lab/group i might have heard of? 11:19 < rigel> nope 11:19 < kanzure> i was working with andy ellington for a bit 11:19 < rigel> i dont know that name 11:19 < kanzure> may or may not be recognizable.. oh ok 11:19 < rigel> i worked in a scientifc backwater for about 3 years after undergrad 11:19 < rigel> now i'm in med school 11:20 < jrayhawk> what was the link to that dude who used genetic analysis to work out his kid wasn't able to declygate anything 11:20 < jrayhawk> err, deglycate 11:21 < kanzure> jrayhawk: http://matt.might.net/articles/my-sons-killer/ 11:21 < jrayhawk> yeah, the fact that we can characterize one-off genetic diseases like that seems incredibly badass to me 11:21 < kanzure> yes 11:21 < kanzure> i posted that to diybio and nobody replied- i'm super surprised 11:22 < kanzure> that's as diy as you can get, what the hell guys 11:22 -!- neuro-sys [~neuro@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:23 < rigel> that's fairly neat 11:23 < bkero> How many of those do we have to have before we can map functions to our entire genome? 11:23 < rigel> i have considered medical genetics as a specialty 11:23 < rigel> would have done a thing this summer, but i have an opportunity to work on IP policy in DC instead, so i'm doing the latter 11:24 < rigel> i am sure that the physician in charge of the genetics thing is upset with me because of that 11:24 < rigel> bkero: 35,000 or so, minimum 11:25 < bkero> rigel: well that doesn't seem so high 11:25 < rigel> i mean, this stuff works on the individual level occasionally like in this story 11:25 < kanzure> rigel: right, but in other cases it is much harder to figure out 11:25 < rigel> but once you factor in interactions and shit like microRNAs, methylation, chromatin modifications 11:25 < kanzure> heck, most protocols don't work unless you apply like 15 standard deviations in the level of carefulness you apply to each step 11:26 < rigel> it's far less likely that something usable and generalizable will come out of it than throwing darts 11:26 < jrayhawk> making estimates like 35,000 at this point seems a bit naive given how fast we're still discovering huge swaths of complexity related to epigenetics 11:26 < rigel> that's one of the fundamental obstacles conceptually here, is how do we figure out the parameters under which we can generalize about this stuff 11:27 < rigel> if anyone's interested, genomicsforum has a workgroup on gene-environment interactions that i'm on, it's small but just starting to get going 11:28 < rigel> i have literally been pushing the gf leadership to let us have a wiki as a collaborative/discussion tool for a year and now they are doing that. 11:28 < kanzure> a wiki takes like 5 minutes to set up 11:28 < rigel> I KNOW 11:28 < kanzure> they don't sound like a useful bunch of people, sorry 11:28 < rigel> it's not the leadership that's the utility 11:29 < rigel> they just spread the information to e.g. the APHA 11:31 < rigel> i mean, conputer/IT knowhow is not well distributed within these organizations, but they still need to be aware of the science 11:31 < kanzure> i'm not sure how you're supposed to separate bioinformatics from that knowhow 11:31 < kanzure> sounds bogus to me 11:31 < kanzure> are you making excuses for them :P 11:32 < rigel> to some degree, yes 11:32 < rigel> i mean, i have an agenda backed up by some data that i'm trying to present to this set of scientists, right, as an educational exercise 11:34 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@c-98-201-2-186.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:34 < kanzure> _F7_: did you get the details email about the location? 11:35 < rigel> bioinformatics is the IT dept of science, basically. a lot of dismissive attitudes about others' lack of proficiency on the computron screen machine 11:35 < kanzure> mostly bioinformatics people are extremely helpful 11:35 < kanzure> it's much easier to get up to speed on bioinformatics 11:36 < kanzure> if you're willing to spend 4 lab years learning about some lame plasmids, 11:36 < kanzure> then you can certainly spend 6 months reading biopython/bioperl source code 11:36 < kanzure> or playing around with other software. 11:36 < rigel> i'm rambling, sorry 11:36 < kanzure> rambling is my middle name! 11:37 < rigel> i need to play a bit with pyphantomjs 11:37 < kanzure> ah right 11:37 < rigel> i want to automate my download of course material from sakai 11:37 < kanzure> i've been working on a coffeescript scraping framework for phantomjs 11:37 < rigel> which uses a fuckton of js, which gives me hives 11:37 < kanzure> it's not released yet, but you might like to look at this: 11:37 < kanzure> https://gist.github.com/25a38b9c5df048dcec4a 11:38 < kanzure> (in particular start reading from the bottom) 11:38 < kanzure> damn i should write documentation for this today 11:38 < rigel> YES PLEASE 11:39 < rigel> lack of documentation is the bane of my existence 11:39 < kanzure> in the mean time, you can ask questions if things aren't self-explanatory 11:40 < kanzure> well, that's why i haven't released it yet ;) 11:40 < rigel> dont the :: and . operators do the same thing, i mean is there a difference there that i'm not appreciating or something? 11:41 < rigel> i dont know coffeescript or js for that matter from my asshole 11:41 < kanzure> :: is quick access to the javascript prototype for that object 11:41 < kanzure> coffeescript is just a slightly more pleasant way to read/write javascript 11:41 < kanzure> http://coffeescript.org/ has a pretty thorough tutorial on the front page 11:41 < kanzure> i really hate writing javascript 11:41 < rigel> yeah, i looked at that last night 11:41 < kanzure> backbone.js is the only pleasant javascript i have ever worked with 11:42 < kanzure> everything else can suck it 11:42 < rigel> once i was done with your mom, etc 11:42 < kanzure> right, right 11:45 < rigel> holy crap 11:45 < rigel> my raspberry pi shipped 11:50 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@c-98-201-2-186.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 11:53 < bkero> Mine should be here on monday 11:53 < bkero> I have a delicious amount of embedded coming my way 11:53 < bkero> a cotton candy fxi, a mk802, and a raspberry pi 11:54 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@c-98-201-2-186.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:54 < rigel> neat 11:55 < rigel> i am hoping that the rpi will have enough horsepower to run this shitass java package on it 11:55 < bkero> java? raspberry pi? 11:55 < bkero> Good luck 11:55 < rigel> i imagine it will, i just hope it works with the openjdk 11:55 < bkero> I wouldn't let java anywhere near my pi 11:56 < rigel> nod 11:56 < rigel> i was gonna just use it as a print/audio server 11:56 < rigel> but i'm stuck on email right now, and i have to use davmail (java) to access it because exchange sucks turds through a straw 11:57 < kanzure> hint: don't use exchange 11:57 < rigel> oh, right, because that decision is up to me 11:57 < kanzure> also: don't use me for mail server advice, i'm apparently using gmail 11:57 < rigel> thanks for the top 11:57 < rigel> s/top/tip 11:58 < rigel> i suppose i should set up an environment where i can cross-compile stuff for the pi huh 11:58 < rigel> or is there an arm repo for debian 11:59 < kanzure> i thought debian has arm binaries for most packages? 11:59 < kanzure> i might be wrong 11:59 < kanzure> jrayhawk: this sounds like a thing you might know 12:00 -!- Mokbortolan_1 [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:09 < chris_99> they do kanzure 12:13 < chris_99> what are you planning on using it for rigel? 12:13 < rigel> tinkerin' 12:13 < chris_99> :) 12:14 < chris_99> i'm just using mine for video stuff atm 12:14 < rigel> but i'd like to run it as a print server, ampache server, mail server (with davmail, which is java, to my continual dismay, and requires refactoring to get the GUI bits out of it) 12:14 < rigel> or any combination thereof 12:14 < rigel> my wife bought a second one for me so i can offload responsibilities as necessary 12:14 < chris_99> i'd personally use something more lightweight than apache 12:15 < chris_99> such as nginx / lighttpd 12:15 < rigel> i dont know how well ampache plays with nginx 12:15 < chris_99> ampache? 12:15 < chris_99> you mean apache? 12:15 < rigel> no, ampache 12:15 < chris_99> what's that? 12:15 < rigel> http://lmgtfy.com/ampache 12:16 < chris_99> ah streaming 12:16 < rigel> oy, i cant even construct a lmgtfy url correctly 12:16 < chris_99> indeed 12:16 < rigel> i need more coffee, clearly 12:17 < rigel> yeah, i have a bunch of services that i run at home that i want to offload from the current server 12:17 < chris_99> i've had issues with kernel panics + bittorrent :( 12:17 < rigel> i do not use bittorrent 12:17 < chris_99> it's a network driver related issue from what i can tell 12:17 < rigel> though i would like to throw up sabnzbdplus on there if it can handle it 12:17 < rigel> though that comes with a built in webserver which is kind of a pita to disable and then configure with something else 12:18 < rigel> because windows people use it, essentially 12:21 < kanzure> hint: stop using.. etc. 12:23 < rigel> stop using software that people using windows use? yeah, been trying to for a while 12:23 < kanzure> maybe i should swtich strategies 12:23 < kanzure> *switch 12:23 < kanzure> and hit it at the source (e.g., people) 12:23 < kanzure> you should stop interacting with people? :P 12:24 < rigel> what im confused about is why exactly this sabnzbdplus package has to have a webserver natively, why they cant just put out separate pckages for it 12:34 < rigel> i suppose i will be moving to hellanzb and trying to put some kind of web thing on top 12:52 -!- neuro-sys [~neuro@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974] has quit [Quit: win] 12:54 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:07 < jrayhawk> Yeah, Debian has both arm and amrel. I run those on my phone! 13:08 < jrayhawk> But some of the Pi's hardware acceleration stuff isn't really going to be supported by generic packages. 13:09 < jrayhawk> s/amrel/armel 13:09 < chris_99> yeah, for video for instance you need omxplayer 13:13 < jrayhawk> apache's DAV implementation is the only one that isn't a giant PITA 13:13 < jrayhawk> lighty and nginx's DAV implementations are both incomplete, and pywebdav is tedious to get working through them. 13:15 < _F7_> bluh 13:15 < _F7_> things are too close to a major release at my workplace 13:15 < chris_99> heh, why use DAV 13:15 -!- neuro-sys [~neuro@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:16 < jrayhawk> It's built-in to every platform, and, from a network administration perspective, more likely to work than FTP. 13:16 < chris_99> i prefer sftp 13:16 < _F7_> If I'd known about the specifics for the WMD meetup thing earlier they could have planned around it, but I can't get off work for the california trip. 13:16 < jrayhawk> sftp is neither of those things. 13:17 < chris_99> it's far more secure than ftp and i don't use windows anyhow 13:17 < jrayhawk> ftp has TLS extensions for both command and data streams. 13:17 < chris_99> i know but imo ftp is outdated 13:18 < jrayhawk> that's not a useful word 13:19 < chris_99> why not? 13:20 < jrayhawk> It carries no explicit meaning other than "old", but has lots of vague connotations which are difficult to untangle from context. 13:21 < jrayhawk> I would be curious as to which connotations you were attempting to invoke, though. 13:21 < chris_99> ok it's crap then 13:21 < chris_99> any encryption mechanisms are simply bolt-ons rather than being part of the original protocol 13:22 < jrayhawk> SSH is a bolt-on to RSH. 13:22 < chris_99> who's talking about RSH 13:23 < jrayhawk> Do you think SSH is a bad protocol because it's a bolt-on? 13:24 < chris_99> it isn't a bolt on 13:24 < chris_99> Open SSH server runs by itself 13:24 < chris_99> so i havent got a clue what your saying 13:25 < jrayhawk> What does "runs by itself" mean? 13:25 < chris_99> it's a server 13:25 < jrayhawk> So is an FTP daemon that supports SSL/TLS. 13:25 < jrayhawk> TLS/SSL and SSH are both secure encapsulations for existing protocols. 13:25 < chris_99> yes, but it's using an outdated protocol 13:26 < chris_99> openssh is a different thing entirely 13:26 < jrayhawk> Okay, what connotations of "outdated" are you attempting to invoke? 13:26 < chris_99> FTP is a plaintext protocol right 13:26 < chris_99> that wasn't designed for encryption 13:26 < jrayhawk> RSH is also a plaintext protocol. 13:26 < jrayhawk> RSH also wasn't designed for encryption. 13:26 < chris_99> what does RSH have to do with anything 13:26 < jrayhawk> Fortunately, encapsulation solves these problems. 13:26 < jrayhawk> RSH is to SSH what FTP is to FTPS or FTP+TLS. 13:26 < chris_99> no 13:26 < jrayhawk> Yes. 13:26 < chris_99> it is not 13:28 < jrayhawk> Technically FTPS is better since it supports PKI rather than mere PSKs, but that's fairly trivial. 13:29 < chris_99> via SSL? 13:29 < jrayhawk> Yes. 13:29 < chris_99> because that's secure ;) 13:30 < jrayhawk> are you being sarcastic? 13:30 < chris_99> slightly 13:30 < kanzure> nmz787 says "This trip is around 55hours, got any audio learning stuff worth listening to?" 13:31 < jrayhawk> Are you claiming that public key cryptography doesn't work? 13:31 < chris_99> nope, just flaws with SSL but they're unrelated to FTP 13:32 < chris_99> so not really relavent here 13:34 < jrayhawk> Eh, it's not like this entire conversation has any particular relevance. 13:34 < jrayhawk> I'm suprised kanzure hasn't kicked me yet. 13:34 < kanzure> for pooing over ftp? i'm totally okay with that 13:37 < chris_99> also you've got silly little things that ftp allows like bouncing 13:37 < chris_99> (sometimes) 13:38 < jrayhawk> Haha, that's a cute trick. Hadn't heard of that one. 13:38 < chris_99> it was used for server -> server transfers 13:39 < ParahSailin> whats wrong with ssl 13:39 < chris_99> things like ssl beast 13:39 < chris_99> it only affects a certain version though 13:43 < jrayhawk> SSL also got a bad rap because of Commodo and DigiNotar's use of obsolete hashes. 13:44 < rigel> what connotation of "got a bad rap" are you intending to invoke 13:45 < jrayhawk> Alarmist news sites like touting that PKI is inherently broken and useless as a result of two authorities being compromised. 13:46 < rigel> that sounds like a prescriptivist vs descriptivist debate 13:46 < chris_99> i'd like to know how many ~768 bit SSL sites are out there 13:47 < chris_99> has anyone conducted research with UV & yeast btw? 13:47 < rigel> define "anyone" 13:47 < chris_99> you guys 13:47 < rigel> i have not 13:49 < chris_99> i'm wondering whether you could isolate yeast strains that produce more alcohol after mutation 13:49 < chris_99> or if that's too difficult 13:49 < rigel> to what end 13:50 < chris_99> it's for brewing 13:50 < rigel> wyeast.com 13:50 < chris_99> yeah i've used some of their yeasts i think 13:50 < rigel> red star has some high alcohol ones too iirc 13:50 < rigel> ~20% 13:51 < rigel> thats about as high as you can go 13:51 < chris_99> yeah 20% seems to be the current highest 13:52 < rigel> and youd think that after thousands of years of selective breeding that that ceiling would have been broken by now 13:53 < ParahSailin> 20% is pretty high 13:54 < chris_99> indeed 13:56 < rigel> i was asking because i can see making the effort to streak your own yeast etc from the pov of getting novel flavor profiles, but purely for EtOH content i think it's probably better to go to a vendor 13:57 -!- _sol_ [Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:57 < chris_99> yeah you're probably right 13:58 < chris_99> it would be cool to get different flavours now you mention it though 13:58 < rigel> well thats very likely going to be a tradeoff 13:58 < rigel> not directly 13:58 < rigel> but you're going to be selecting for one thing at a time 13:59 < chris_99> is uv a sensible way to introduce mutations? 13:59 < kanzure> do you want targetted mutatagenesis? then no 14:00 < chris_99> what other options are there? 14:01 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01 < rigel> http://www.amazon.com/Yeast-Protocols-Methods-Molecular-Biology/dp/1617375691/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 14:01 < rigel> i have the older edition of this book as a pdf 14:01 < rigel> if you have an email i can send it to 14:02 < chris_99> oh that'd be wicked 14:03 < kanzure> email? pffttt https://www.filepicker.io/ 14:03 < kanzure> note: dunno if that works 14:06 < rigel> i dont use third party dropbox thingies, as a matter of policy 14:06 < rigel> either you have an ftp/sftp i can dump it in, or i email it to you 14:07 < kanzure> i have that, but perhaps another time. i'm lazy at the moment. 14:07 < rigel> or, alternatively, if you have a bbs i can upload it to i will call you 14:07 < rigel> kanzure: done 14:07 < rigel> for those of you who dont know, the medlib-l list is great for getting individual papers 14:08 < kanzure> rigel: we wrote our own scrapers 14:08 < rigel> dont abuse it for journals that everyone "is supposed" to have 14:08 < kanzure> we have 80 publisher-scrapers and are on track for acquiring a 100% complete mirror 14:08 < kanzure> what the hell do you think my interest in phantomjs is? 14:08 < rigel> o i c 14:09 * kanzure goes afk for a bit 14:09 < rigel> you are doing what i basically have dreamed of doing for the last 8 or 9 years 14:09 < rigel> kudos 14:12 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:18 < jrayhawk> haha, now i am sad i don't have a BBS 14:19 < rigel> i should clarify: 0day only 14:19 < rigel> also NR 14:19 < rigel> those are my terms 14:20 < jrayhawk> kanzure: to dodge search-engine lawyers, you should distribute chatlogs and papers over gopher:// 14:21 < rigel> there are logs of this channel? 14:21 < jrayhawk> topic 14:21 < rigel> damn 14:21 < rigel> right in the topic 14:22 < jrayhawk> oh damn, gecko dropped gopher support 14:22 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr2.inka-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:22 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr2.inka-online.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:22 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:24 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@c-98-201-2-186.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:29 < rigel> why are we not using gopher for mobile devices anyway 14:29 < rigel> many mobile sites are set up in pretty much the same way 14:34 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@adsl-69-151-150-108.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:34 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@adsl-69-151-150-108.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:34 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:48 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-24-63-135-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:49 < kanzure> jrayhawk: nothing wrong with indexes 14:49 < kanzure> rigel: NR? 14:50 < rigel> no ratio 15:31 < brownies> gopher still exists?! 15:33 < brownies> filepicker.io was in the WSJ?! 15:39 -!- srangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:41 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:41 -!- srangewarp is now known as strangewarp 15:49 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09 -!- srangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:11 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:11 -!- srangewarp is now known as strangewarp 16:11 -!- NonFish_ [lurking@adsl-99-111-153-229.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:15 < dixiebassline> isnt learning a bit of arabic to impress the help a waste of time 16:15 < dixiebassline> jsut sayin' 16:15 -!- NonFish[ [fiske@adsl-99-111-153-229.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:16 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:17 < kanzure> dixiebassline: "the help" ? :P 16:17 < yashgaroth> and 'impress' probably isn't the word I'd use 16:17 < dixiebassline> lol 16:17 < dixiebassline> i was just curious to the motication 16:17 < dixiebassline> motivation* 16:17 < dixiebassline> i came in after that 16:18 < yashgaroth> I'm hoping for 'scare just enough that it's funny while avoiding federal prison' 16:18 < dixiebassline> nice 16:19 < rigel> did i miss something? 16:19 < yashgaroth> not that I'll do it myself since I'm there on the FBI's good graces, rather than them paying my way (p.s. $66 a day for food? I didn't think the bay was that expensive) 16:20 < kanzure> yashgaroth: or maybe you're just cheap ;) 16:20 < kanzure> $20/meal isn't that unreasonable in general 16:20 < yashgaroth> ehh, I guess not 16:20 < kanzure> rigel: yes you did 16:21 < yashgaroth> the FBI is bringing in DIYbio people for a workshop wherein we convince them we're not all bioterrorists 16:21 < kanzure> rigel: the fbi's weapons of mass destruction directorate is flying a bunch of us biohacking peeps out to give presentations to their special agents 16:21 < rigel> im sure that will go over well 16:21 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@c-98-201-2-186.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:21 < kanzure> rigel: went fine last year 16:22 < kanzure> rigel: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/fbi-diybio-2011/2011-07-13.txt 16:22 < kanzure> rigel: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/nucleic/fbi-diybio-dna-v1.pdf 16:22 < yashgaroth> my plan was to take a call and start screaming at the phone in arabic, then hang up casually 16:22 < kanzure> my alteration of his plan is "introduce ourselves in arabic to the agents" 16:22 < yashgaroth> feds are known for their sense of humor so it should go well 16:23 < rigel> the thing thats always struck me about the bioterrorism paranoia is that the sort of movie plot threats these people think of require way too much in terms of infrastructure, planning, and intelligence for your garden variety anarchist to see to completion 16:23 < kanzure> i think they are worried more about state-sponsored bioterrorism 16:23 < kanzure> but they also want to make sure the diybio peeps are informed about when to contact an agent 16:23 < rigel> thats not so much terrorism as war 16:24 < rigel> if it's a state actor 16:24 < kanzure> for instance, someone came in here a few months ago with a stunning plot to rob from a BSL 4 facility 16:24 < kanzure> *state-sponsored BSL 4 facility 16:24 < kanzure> that's not cool in general :| 16:24 < rigel> what were they going to steal 16:24 < kanzure> paperclips, it doesn't matter, i don't want to be associated with that 16:25 < rigel> a "plot" is only as good as its feasibility 16:25 < rigel> its like the miami 7, you know? 16:25 < yashgaroth> aren't they all state sponsored? 16:25 < dixiebassline> well hippies are too stupid to be terrorists, so are muslims 16:25 < kanzure> yashgaroth: i sure hope not, surely there's at least one commercial bsl 4 lab?? 16:25 < dixiebassline> we know the fbi did the first wtc bombing 16:25 < dixiebassline> so they are the team to play for 16:25 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ 16:25 < yashgaroth> um, the ELF has proven fairly effective at bombing GMO labs 16:25 < rigel> lul? 16:25 -!- dixiebassline was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [dixiebassline] 16:25 <@kanzure> no 911 truthers 16:25 <@kanzure> damn. 16:26 < rigel> there's a reason why all the sovreign citizens, militia types, christian nutbars, etc go out and get lots of guns and explosives 16:27 < rigel> it's proximal to their goal 16:28 < rigel> engaging in a potentially years long plan to make anthrax powder is just so distal based on current levels of education etc, that it's laughable 16:28 < rigel> it's a hell of a lot more lucrative to just go out and make meth 16:28 < rigel> and buy guns 16:29 <@kanzure> sure. 16:29 -!- dixiebassline [~adam@75.105.14.63] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:29 <@kanzure> regulating whether or not i play around with microbes at 3am isn't going to change whether or not someone else does 16:29 < rigel> IF MICROBES ARE OUTLAWED ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE MICROBES 16:29 < rigel> hee 16:29 <@kanzure> rigel: concealed petridish license 16:30 <@kanzure> <--- licensed to carry 16:30 < yashgaroth> that's texas for you 16:31 < rigel> oh, was the synthesis.cc guy part of this? 16:31 < rigel> i think i recall reading about it 16:31 <@kanzure> last year, yes. not this year. 16:31 <@kanzure> rob is sorta known as an asshole 16:31 <@kanzure> and sorta impractical with his engineering. $100k to make a thermocycler? wtf man 16:31 < yashgaroth> he showed up at the seattle meetings, seemed nice enough but I think he was pimping his book so 16:31 <@kanzure> he's pretty good at self-publicity 16:32 <@kanzure> likes to somehow get involved with weird government/policy groups 16:32 < rigel> so you know 16:32 < rigel> MSF is really who yall need to be working with 16:32 <@kanzure> mswho? 16:32 < rigel> medecins sans frontieres 16:32 <@kanzure> without frontiers? erm? 16:32 < rigel> doctors without borders 16:32 <@kanzure> ah, probably 16:33 < rigel> a while back maradydd wanted to start a biohacking thing at noisebridge, where i was hanging out 16:33 <@kanzure> noisebridge was against it 16:33 < rigel> yeah 16:33 <@kanzure> but they seem to be doing somethign now with .. r.. someone 16:33 < rigel> i was part ofthat 16:33 <@kanzure> r.. rik.. 16:33 <@kanzure> whatever. his shroom shit. 16:33 < rigel> because they really didnt know what the fuck they were doing 16:33 <@kanzure> tito? yeah.. 16:33 < rigel> i think it's developed a bit more 16:34 <@kanzure> yeah, different people 16:34 < rigel> safety, big concern 16:34 <@kanzure> and the others went off to biocurious 16:34 <@kanzure> have you been to biocurious yet? 16:34 < rigel> im glad to see it has developed a bit 16:34 < rigel> no, i dont live in sf anymore 16:34 <@kanzure> ah. 16:35 < rigel> it sounds like theres real opportunities though to train people through the diy/open paradigm to work on shit that PhRMA et al just dont care about 16:35 < rigel> or actively sabotage 16:35 <@kanzure> yes i agree 16:35 <@kanzure> especially rare diseases 16:35 <@kanzure> or shit that costs $10,000/dose 16:35 < rigel> thats what im interested in, is building bridges between the hackers of all stripes, and the global poor and domestic underserved 16:35 < dixiebassline> comie 16:35 < rigel> damn right 16:36 < dixiebassline> lol 16:36 <@kanzure> i'm really curious why these rare disease groups haven't been doing their own biology riggups 16:36 <@kanzure> like, screw the fda- you guys need your blood drugs 16:36 < dixiebassline> man weve been trying to bring hackers together forever 16:36 < dixiebassline> its like herding cats 16:36 < rigel> it always is 16:36 <@kanzure> "bring hackers together" is a throw-away phrase, it's just something you ignore when reading 16:36 < rigel> its politics, and its perception 16:36 <@kanzure> "bring hackers together' is a lame way of saying "put up a public git repo" 16:36 <@kanzure> oh god mismatched quotes 16:36 < dixiebassline> we've got hacker public radio 16:37 < dixiebassline> been around for years now 16:37 < yashgaroth> hey guys would you like to join my hacker collective 16:37 <@kanzure> no 16:37 < dixiebassline> but hacker is kind of like anarchist 16:37 < dixiebassline> the only good ones ar locked up 16:37 < rigel> dixiebassline: thats the perception i was talkin about 16:38 < dixiebassline> :) 16:38 <@kanzure> maybe you should just ignore what other people think, and get work done 16:38 < rigel> i am too old to be the angry young man anymore 16:38 < ThomasEgi> yashgaroth, that totaly made my day :D 16:38 < yashgaroth> heh 16:38 < dixiebassline> yes 16:38 < dixiebassline> ignore all the other people 16:39 < dixiebassline> especially ppl that claim to be related 16:39 < rigel> ok i REALLY need to get back to studying trypanosomes 16:39 <@kanzure> well, so far you've just talked bunches of politics i think 16:39 <@kanzure> so you might not actually be skilled 16:39 < dixiebassline> 'fuck the haters' 16:39 <@kanzure> who are you anyway? 16:40 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by ChanServ 16:40 < dixiebassline> who are you> 16:40 < rigel> kanzure: who are you directing that to 16:40 < kanzure> rigel: not you 16:40 < kanzure> dixiebassline: http://heybryan.org/ 16:41 < dixiebassline> http://www.jackparsonslabs.com/ kanzure 16:41 < ThomasEgi> ufos near sun? 16:41 < rigel> ableton? 16:41 < rigel> ponce. 16:41 < kanzure> so you do social media blogging? 16:42 * kanzure goes back to adding documentation to that thing i promised rigel 16:42 < ThomasEgi> with an illuminati-irc name?.. 16:42 < dixiebassline> im mainly working on music production 16:42 < rigel> with ableton? 16:42 < rigel> ponce. 16:43 < dixiebassline> why not 16:43 < dixiebassline> :P 16:43 < ThomasEgi> dixiebassline, you believe in extraterestrial lens reflections? 16:43 < dixiebassline> idk what that means 16:44 < chris_99> i know this is off-topic but does anyone know something similar to neatx that seems to be still developed 16:44 < dixiebassline> reality is so... realitive 16:44 < ThomasEgi> http://www.jackparsonslabs.com/2012/05/06/ufos-near-earths-sun/ 16:44 < ThomasEgi> that picture 16:45 < dixiebassline> oh idk 16:45 < dixiebassline> have you seen that video thouh 16:45 < dixiebassline> its mind blowing 16:45 < ThomasEgi> i have multimedia stuff disabled in my browser 16:45 < ThomasEgi> the pic is all i saw 16:45 < dixiebassline> oh 16:45 < dixiebassline> yeah theres som video from nasa 16:45 < dixiebassline> and it looks like theres this thing at the sun 16:45 < dixiebassline> idk 16:45 < dixiebassline> ill never know 16:46 < dixiebassline> no one will 16:46 < kanzure> dixiebassline: tone it down 16:46 < chris_99> a sun spot? 16:46 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ 16:46 < dixiebassline> oh, kanzure he was aksing about this picture, \\\ 16:47 < dixiebassline> ill take to pm if its bothering your channel 16:47 < dixiebassline> im not here to be distruptive 16:47 * ThomasEgi is not impressed with stuff like that. 16:47 < ThomasEgi> people take grains of dust and lens reflections ways to serious 16:48 < dixiebassline> i think its fun to take stuff like that and put it to the music ive been making because ppl dont take it seriously 16:48 < dixiebassline> and sometimes ppl like voice in their music 16:49 < chris_99> Pareidolia ThomasEgi 16:51 < ThomasEgi> not sure if that's the same as seeing things you want to see. 16:51 < dixiebassline> chris_99, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ulqsAgrlYI 16:52 < dixiebassline> erm 16:52 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-181-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:52 < dixiebassline> i ment to send that in pb 16:52 < dixiebassline> and pm 16:55 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@c-98-201-2-186.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 16:57 -!- Thorbinator [~Thorbinat@c-67-166-146-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:58 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:03 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-181-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:10 -!- moriarty [~art@unaffiliated/moriarty] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:12 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:13 -!- phryk [~phryk@static.39.216.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14 -!- phryk [~phryk@static.39.216.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:17 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:28 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:31 -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:31 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@c-98-201-2-186.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:49 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: strages_home, gedankenstuecke, devrandom, Vicarious, CIA-13, HEx1, phryk, epitron, archels, brownies, (+43 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 17:55 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:55 -!- Netsplit over, joins: _F7_, aristarchus, phryk, moriarty, dixiebassline, NonFish_, strangewarp, ParahSailin, ThomasEgi, yashgaroth (+43 more) 18:05 -!- Jora [~Jora@24-196-83-11.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:05 -!- Jora [~Jora@24-196-83-11.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:05 -!- Jora [~Jora@unaffiliated/jora] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:11 < Jora> business is not fun blargh 18:12 < rigel> https://github.com/timknip/pyswf 18:12 < rigel> does someone want to take a look at that library and see why it's not dumping the TEXTRECORD when you export to SVG? 18:13 < rigel> it seems to pull layout and graphics information fine, but the text gets lost somewhere 18:27 -!- calango [~dnm@pdpc/supporter/active/calango] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:43 -!- calango [~dnm@pdpc/supporter/active/calango] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:44 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-181-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:54 -!- moriarty [~art@unaffiliated/moriarty] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:13 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:15 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:24 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:39 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:41 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-181-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:49 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:55 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:56 < joshcryer> kanzure, I've only read the first part of this Fernhout thing and I'm glad someone did this, pretty much reflects where I stand on Kurzweil (of course that was probably apparent over the years, but eh, still a nice piece of rhetoric so far). 19:59 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:11 -!- docl [~luke@unaffiliated/docl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18 -!- bkero [~Ben@osuosl/staff/bkero] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 20:21 -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:31 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@c-98-201-2-186.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:51 <@kanzure> joshcryer: yeah, it was sorta like "great, now i don't have to write this" 20:54 * joshcryer nods 20:59 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@c-98-201-2-186.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:56 -!- strages_shop [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:09 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-76-105-164-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:34 -!- Jora [~Jora@unaffiliated/jora] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:45 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-24-6-19-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:48 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:26 <@kanzure> hi klafka 23:27 < klafka> hey kanzure 23:27 < klafka> this is in bart right now 23:27 < klafka> http://imgur.com/Aniav,chWwL#0 23:39 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-24-6-19-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:47 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Sun Jun 03 00:00:29 2012