--- Log opened Tue Jun 05 00:00:31 2012
00:01 < Utopiah> http://barabasilab.neu.edu/projects/tedmed/
00:21 -!- qnm_ [~robsharp@101.171.21.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
00:31 -!- SolG [~Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:32 -!- _sol_ [Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:42 -!- qnm_ [~robsharp@home.sharp.id.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:08 -!- qnm_ [~robsharp@home.sharp.id.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
01:33 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr2.inka-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:33 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr2.inka-online.net] has quit [Changing host]
01:33 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:36 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:04 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
02:08 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:17 -!- not_unoriginal [4caa56b3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.170.86.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
02:20 < Utopiah> http://www.brepettis.com/blog/2009/3/3/the-cult-of-done-manifesto.html
02:50 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil]
02:52 -!- qnm_ [~robsharp@2001:44b8:3110:f300:60b8:862:623:aa3d] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:12 -!- qnm_ [~robsharp@2001:44b8:3110:f300:60b8:862:623:aa3d] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
04:01 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:02 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:36 -!- qnm_ [~robsharp@2001:44b8:3110:f300:60b8:862:623:aa3d] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:41 < archels> kanzure: What is LUF, TMP?
05:01 -!- kvltist [~Kvltist@p5B1570E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:02 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:12 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-5-109.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
05:14 -!- qnm_ [~robsharp@2001:44b8:3110:f300:60b8:862:623:aa3d] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
05:37 < chris_99> anyone read 'Human Enhancement'
05:40 -!- SolG is now known as _sol_
06:03 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
06:03 < archels> chris_99: URL?
06:04 < chris_99> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Human-Enhancement-Julian-Savulescu/dp/0199594961/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1338901443&sr=8-1
06:27 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:28 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Client Quit]
06:32 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:33 <@kanzure> archels: LUF is a weird "501c3" (not really?) built around savage's book, TMP is 'the millineal project'
06:33 <@kanzure> archels: http://tmp2.wikia.com/
06:33 <@kanzure> chris_99: haha i see you're still trying to not follow my advice about reading 'transhumanist' books.
06:33 <@kanzure> chris_99: you'll be disappoint.
06:35 < Mariu> :p
06:36 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-4b.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:36 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-4b.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has quit [Changing host]
06:36 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:37 < chris_99> heh
06:42 <@kanzure> https://bitbucket.org/iorodeo/transilluminator_enclosure/src
06:43 <@kanzure> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 5:43 AM, Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey@gmail.com> wrote:
06:43 <@kanzure> > The problem is, there are great methods out there, but they're patented
06:43 <@kanzure> > just use cold (insoluble) potato starch to purify proteins. But, it's
06:43 <@kanzure> > patented in the EU for another few years at least, and possibly in the
06:43 <@kanzure> > US for the time being, too.
06:43 <@kanzure> > to oblivion. Consider Maltose-Binding Protein: You could, in principal,
06:44 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:45 <@kanzure> "The Assange Show on RT tonight, June 5, covers Cypherpunks as source of WikiLeaks:"  http://www.rt.com/news/julian-assange-internet-war-cypherpunk-989/
06:46 <@kanzure> well at least he's admitting it now
06:46 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:46 <@kanzure> maybe he will also admit its origins with extropy-chat
06:46 <@kanzure> fun fact: extropy-chat was good for something once (wikileaks)
07:36 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:36 -!- jmil [~jmil@2607:f470:8:3148:2dd3:2309:9638:e94d] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:02 -!- jmil [~jmil@2607:f470:8:3148:2dd3:2309:9638:e94d] has quit [Quit: jmil]
08:08 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@c-98-201-2-186.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:27 <@kanzure> whois Srdjan Gavrilovic <sasvimlogicno@gmail.com>
08:37 < Urchin> I have no clue
08:38 < Urchin> though he sounds like he's from my region
08:39 < Urchin> though his name sounds serbian
08:40 <@kanzure> "The second class will be BIOCAMP 101, which is targeted at people with little to no biology experience, or those who want to get hands on with biology.  This is the the bootcamp version of the original biotech 101 class, in that it is condensed into one weekend to make it more convenient- let me know if this is not a good way to do it.  This will be on Friday 22 and Sunday 24."
08:41 <@kanzure> "On Saturday, we will go practice aseptic technique, learn about different kinds of media, and then put new genes (DNA) into bacteria!  On Sunday 24, we will extract DNA or protiens from transformed bacteria and visualize it on an agarose gel.  Sign up HERE."
08:41 <@kanzure> how about a non-beginner bootcamp :|
08:41 <@kanzure> "3rd postdoc bootcamp"
08:42 < Urchin> lol
08:42 < Urchin> I'm guessing these things are a bit advanced
08:43 < Urchin> *I haven't talked to biologists in a while now
08:43 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-64.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:43 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-64.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has quit [Changing host]
08:43 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:52 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:54 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:00 -!- chillyvanilly [~chillyvan@207.178.197.130] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:00 -!- chillyvanilly [~chillyvan@207.178.197.130] has left ##hplusroadmap []
09:08 <@kanzure> new! subscribe to ##hplusroadmap log digests by emailing sadrobot@gnusha.org
09:24 < Urchin> why?
09:26 <@kanzure> sorta kidding.
09:27 < Urchin> I was actually considering putting my version of this log online
09:27 < Urchin> it's a single file log that has the past 26 days at least
09:28 <@kanzure> go for it
09:33 < Urchin> just a moment
09:34 < Urchin> http://transhumanizam.fizika.org/hplusroadmap.log
09:34 < Urchin> there you go
09:35 < Urchin> 5.6 MB
09:35 < Urchin> just a warning
09:35 < Urchin> and growing in real time
09:36 < Urchin> and it starts in February
09:38 <@kanzure> Urchin: if you want the previous years you could grab them from http://gnusha.org/logs/
09:39 < Urchin> I have an older log somewhere
09:41 < Urchin> at one point I had a couple of hundred MB of chat logs that I had to get off the server due to user quota
09:41 < Urchin> and it's in a tarball somewhere
09:41 < Urchin> my current collection of logs is running at 100+ MB
09:42 < Urchin> and that's from every channel I'm on
09:42 < archels> "how to tell if you're an ircaddict"
09:42 <@kanzure> i have a few gigs of various logs.
09:43 < Urchin> they don't let me have a few gigs here
09:43 < ThomasEgi> my tar.gz'd logs are already 44megs
09:43 <@kanzure> prison?
09:43 < Urchin> shell server
09:43 < Urchin> 800 MB quota
09:44 <@kanzure> when was that quota set? 1998?
09:44 < Urchin> more like 2008
09:44 < Urchin> they got fed up with people downloading 20GB+ of stuff
09:45 < Urchin> soft limit is a bit over DVD size
09:46 < Urchin> there are hundreds of users (though most don't use it)
09:49 < Urchin> the quota could use a bit of expanding, truth be told
09:49 < Urchin> the disk seems to have grown
09:50 < Urchin> but, I do get the service for free, so...
09:53 < Mariu> oh, nice
09:53 < Mariu> downloading hardware
09:53 < Mariu> @ Gnusha
09:59 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:08 -!- klafka [~textual@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:51 -!- augur [~augur@wireless-206-196-162-123.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:58 -!- augur [~augur@wireless-206-196-162-123.umd.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:58 -!- augur [~augur@wireless-206-196-162-123.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:01 < thekoranbelt> future civilization should have a barrier of entry
11:01 < thekoranbelt> you must be at least this + to enter
11:02 < Mariu> what does + stand for ?
11:07 -!- augur [~augur@wireless-206-196-162-123.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:09 -!- not_unoriginal [4caa56b3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.170.86.179] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:15 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:17 < thekoranbelt> thats the kicker
12:15 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
12:15 -!- Guest12426 [~chris@36.1.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:31 -!- Guest12426 [~chris@36.1.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:31 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:36 -!- not_unoriginal [4caa56b3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.170.86.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
12:37 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:37 -!- not_unoriginal [4caa56b3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.170.86.179] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:45 <@kanzure> "In August 2006, the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) ordered examiners to stop using Wikipedia as a source of information for determining the patentability of inventions."
12:46 <@kanzure> "However, according to The Patent Librarian's Notebook's blog, examiners continue to cite it, and the number of United States patents issued in 2008 that cited Wikipedia articles nearly doubled to 477, compared to 2007.[20] It increased to 809 citations in 2009.[21]"
12:46 < not_unoriginal> blobjectivity?
13:05 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.184.203] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:36 <@kanzure> gfp dinoflagellates at biocurious http://www.meetup.com/BioCurious/events/65346872/
13:38 <@kanzure> oh nevermind
13:38 <@kanzure> they are naturally bioluminescent. how disappointing :P
13:44 -!- Guest81072 [~chris@87.113.150.11] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:44 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
13:47 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-3-210.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:50 -!- Guest81072 [~chris@87.113.150.11] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:53 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:00 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-3-210.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:00 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
14:12 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:34 -!- SDr [SDr@cpc10-dals18-2-0-cust809.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:37 -!- SDr [SDr@cpc10-dals18-2-0-cust809.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host]
14:37 -!- SDr [SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:37 -!- qnm_ [~robsharp@1.140.119.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:48 -!- qnm_ [~robsharp@1.140.119.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
15:51 -!- qnm_ [~robsharp@1.140.119.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:55 -!- qnm_ [~robsharp@1.140.119.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
16:00 -!- azonenberg [~azonenber@2001:470:888b:2:206:70ff:fe01:46] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
16:04 -!- qnm_ [~robsharp@203.48.101.90] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:12 -!- NonFish[ [~lurking@adsl-108-85-7-121.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:13 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
16:15 -!- NonFish_ [fiske@adsl-108-85-7-121.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
16:15 -!- NonFish[ is now known as NonFish_
16:16 -!- atum [~adam@75.105.14.63] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:17 -!- thekoranbelt [~adam@75.105.14.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
16:23 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:28 <@kanzure> fuck udacity :(
16:28 <@kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5LrTUeawyfI
16:28 <@kanzure> friend of mine is learning python
16:28 <@kanzure> this is *not* how you parse html
16:28 <@kanzure> raaawwwrr :V
16:29 < chris_99> ?
16:30 < Mariu> lol
16:35 < brownies> to be fair, most people just flat out shouldn't parse HTML
16:36 < chris_99> how do you parse html
16:36 < chris_99> oh theres a video
16:38 <@kanzure> you should parse html with a library, like lxml or beautifulsoup
16:38 <@kanzure> you should never find yourself writing your own html parser
16:38 <@kanzure> if that happens, you have done something terribly wrong
16:38 < chris_99> it depends what your doing, if you want something simple you could hack up a regex
16:39 <@kanzure> no! never use a regexp to parse html.
16:40 < chris_99> for a simple script its ok
16:40 < chris_99> html is a kludgy mess anyway
16:40 <@kanzure> you know what's even simpler? "import beautifulsoup"
16:41 < brownies> bsoup is really quite nice
16:41 < chris_99> ideally we should be able to use a nice xml parser
16:41 <@kanzure> that's what it is.
16:41 < chris_99> not exactly
16:42 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:42 < brownies> the problem is that there is a lot of HTML out there that is not well-formed
16:42 < brownies> browser-makers correct for it in the rendering process, so it happily goes on existing
16:47 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:52 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:08 < chris_99> some of you guys use django/rails right?
17:09 <@kanzure> yes
17:09 <@kanzure> i use both.
17:10 < chris_99> do those have a way to compile all files to bytecode?
17:14 <@kanzure> python has its own bytecode format (".pyc")
17:14 <@kanzure> but that's probably not what you mean?
17:16 < chris_99> sort of i mean is there a way to bundle all the bytecode together, without needing any source files
17:18 <@kanzure> why would you want to do that
17:19 < chris_99> well i'm sort of curious, as if it's not dependant on the source, why can't it do that
17:19 < chris_99> but maybe it is dependant on the source
17:20 < chris_99> to put it more clearly
17:20 < chris_99> i want to see if all my source can be compiled cleanly
17:22 -!- chevbird [~chevbird@209-6-62-26.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:32 < ParahSailin> you want to distribute something without the source?
17:35 < chris_99> no
17:35 < chris_99> i want to compile all source
17:36 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.184.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:37 -!- Jora [~Jora@24-196-83-11.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:37 -!- Jora [~Jora@24-196-83-11.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Changing host]
17:37 -!- Jora [~Jora@unaffiliated/jora] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:52 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:52 < delinquentme> anyone else started reading theils #17 class notes?
17:53 < delinquentme> I think some of his thoughts on AI development are very very large ( ? ) steps.
17:53 < yashgaroth> what/where
17:57 <@kanzure> chris_99: in general, you shouldn't think about compiling python or ruby source code
17:58 <@kanzure> internally, there's a byte code for their VMs but that's not particularly useful for you
18:00 < chris_99> guess i'll stick to java for the time being
18:01 <@kanzure> why?
18:01 <@kanzure> i don't understand.
18:01 <@kanzure> maybe i've misrepresented something to you.
18:03 < chris_99> i like the idea of being able to know all my source files are syntactically correct
18:04 <@kanzure> it will tell you if it's wrong.
18:05 < chris_99> for all files? even if you don't execute that specific method?
18:07 -!- pasky [pasky@nikam.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
18:07 <@kanzure> chris_99: correct
18:07 < chris_99> cool
18:07 <@kanzure> if you load it into the environment, then yes it will check it
18:07 <@kanzure> but if you load code later, like "randomfile.rb" randomly, it will only check that at runtime
18:07 <@kanzure> i mean.. erm.
18:07 <@kanzure> if in one of your methods, you include a file..
18:08 -!- pasky [pasky@nikam.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:10 < chris_99> ah, so django or rails will compile all files to bytecode for you?
18:10 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:10 < chris_99> when they change
18:14 < chris_99> time for bed, cheers for the heads up
18:14 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:17 <@kanzure> ruby/python both have to interpret the source code somehow, this is how interpreters work
18:18 <@kanzure> i am probably making this too complicated for chris_99
18:18 <@kanzure> most django/rails users aren't expected to care about these things
18:29 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:45 -!- Jora [~Jora@unaffiliated/jora] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:49 -!- azonenberg [~azonenber@2001:470:888b:2:206:70ff:fe01:46] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:03 -!- not_unoriginal is now known as not_unoriginal_a
19:08 < delinquentme> yashgaroth,  A leading candidate for an invisible barrier in AI is the complexity of the code. The might be some limit where the software becomes too complicated as you produce more and more lines of code.
19:08 < delinquentme> are we at the point now where codebases are too complex?
19:08 < yashgaroth> is this peter thiel or some other thiel
19:08 < delinquentme> Ok then what do we do with them
19:08 < delinquentme> peter thiel
19:09 < delinquentme> I say the code base is then replaced with something manageable
19:09 < delinquentme> or refactored
19:09 < delinquentme> and better tools are developed
19:09 -!- not_unoriginal_a is now known as notunoriginalAFK
19:09 < delinquentme> " codebase too big " is too absolute
19:10 < delinquentme> also his take on biotech being heavily regulated
19:10 < delinquentme> sure once you're into clinical
19:10 < delinquentme> but literally you can put anything in a lab and run it
19:10 < delinquentme> hence why people are biohacking
19:11 < yashgaroth> ehh not so much, biohackers haven't done much beyond glowing bacteria...on the wetwork side at least
19:11 < notunoriginalAFK> are you serious?
19:11 < yashgaroth> who, me?
19:12 < notunoriginalAFK> check out a forum devoted to body building or nootropics
19:12 < notunoriginalAFK> people are buying strange powders or peptide molecules and injecting them or otherwise ingesting them
19:13 < yashgaroth> 1 that's not in a lab 2 it's not genetic engineering, which I'd consider to be biohacking; if you want to take that angle, drinking coffee is "biohacking"
19:14 < yashgaroth> peptides/proteins, with the exception of the rare genuine HGH, are a scam
19:14 < notunoriginalAFK> okay so biohacking refers to a very small sliver of human biological experimentation
19:15 < yashgaroth> something beyond steroids and stimulants, yes
19:15 < atum> lsd
19:15 < atum> dmt
19:15 < atum> that sort of stuff?
19:15 < yashgaroth> though of course the people at grindhouse seem to think anything subdermal is automatically "bio"hacking
19:15 < notunoriginalAFK> nootropics.
19:15 < yashgaroth> yes, commonly available drugs
19:16 < yashgaroth> there's no DIY science in those, beyond measuring dose response and other banal shit
19:17 < yashgaroth> everyone seems to have a different opinion of biohacking's definition, much like with transhumanism
19:18 < notunoriginalAFK> I mean tabletop home pcr is neat I guess
19:18 < notunoriginalAFK> lab-on-a-chip under $n is going to be the turning point
19:18 < yashgaroth> oh totally, but I can buy some old used PCR machine off ebay, sometimes for less than whatever kickstarter is manufacturing one
19:19 < notunoriginalAFK> and then what.
19:19 < notunoriginalAFK> bbl dog walk time
19:19 < yashgaroth> well sure with accessible microfluidics you lower a lot of a barriers
19:20 < yashgaroth> but back to delinquentme, you can't really do 'anything' in a lab...it's just that clinical GMP manufacturing is so tightly regulated as to be absurd
19:21 < delinquentme> yashgaroth, when I say 'anything'
19:21 < delinquentme> i mean that theres no regulation
19:21 < delinquentme> you dont need to be UL tested
19:22 < yashgaroth> there are theoretically inspections by the fire dept., and if you're receiving 'hazardous' materials there is another level of requirements
19:22 < delinquentme> well yeah thats employee health
19:23 < delinquentme> I mean you're not going through FDA approval to make a machine that you can use commerially in a lab
19:23 < yashgaroth> and environmental protection - I was annoyed to find that triton x-114 is technically hazmat
19:23 < delinquentme> commercially **
19:23 < yashgaroth> machinery is much less strict
19:24 < yashgaroth> ok I found his class notes
19:25 < yashgaroth> for those following along at home, http://blakemasters.tumblr.com/post/24464587112/peter-thiels-cs183-startup-class-17-deep-thought I guess
19:25 < atum> if you want noots get em from hong kong
19:25 < atum> mayeb set up somethign to test them on arrival
19:26 < yashgaroth> I don't have a problem sourcing them locally
19:26 < delinquentme> sonicator is the instrument i was gonna say
19:26 < delinquentme> like you rig up a back massager into a sonicator
19:27 < delinquentme> no one is stopping you .. unless you've got clearly ghetto rigged wires and obviously bad priactices
19:27 < delinquentme> yashgaroth, yeah it looks like i failed w the link
19:27 < yashgaroth> sure but you're not working with any sort of chemicals, so the government doesn't give a fuck
19:27 < delinquentme> but thats HUGE
19:27 < delinquentme> HUUUGGGEEE
19:27 < delinquentme> everyone and their stupid ass group think " biotech takes long time "
19:27 < delinquentme> pharma and the FDA take along time
19:28 < yashgaroth> the equipment doesn't
19:28 < delinquentme> =]
19:28 < delinquentme> <3
19:28 < atum> werd, and pharma and the fda are part of the problem
19:28 < atum> not the solution
19:28 < yashgaroth> waiting for a significant clinical outcome does, at least according to the FDA
19:28 < atum> regulation is for commies
19:29 < atum> i want to throw science at the wall and see what sticks
19:29 < yashgaroth> hey man I'm a commie and I still think clinical trials are a massive overexpense
19:29 < yashgaroth> ten years, a billion dollars each...and most of them fail anyway
19:29 < yashgaroth> R&D is expensive, but not compared to human testing
19:30 < atum> so let people compete for a chance to become test subjects
19:31 < atum> maybe they already do
19:31 < yashgaroth> sure, if they have the disease
19:31 < atum> well, theres the first come first serve clinical trials
19:31 < yashgaroth> the regulation around running the clinical trial is what takes the expense, you're not paying the test subjects
19:31 < atum> where they pay the subjects
19:31 < delinquentme> atum, lolol
19:32 < yashgaroth> they only pay for the phase 1 safety testing in healthy people
19:32 < delinquentme> i too feel that these regulations are put forth by fascists
19:32 < atum> i was thinking about portal, and then remembered ppl do go to these trials
19:32 <@kanzure> i haven't seen any proposals for an alternative to the FDA
19:32 < delinquentme> Lets just bomb some of it on the islands that still have feral people
19:32 < delinquentme> see what happens
19:32 <@kanzure> you don't want snakesoil salesmen like "reasonattl" from fightaging.org
19:33 < atum> werd
19:33 < atum> hey america was built on snake oil
19:33 < yashgaroth> just like I haven't seen an alternative to the patent system :/
19:33 < atum> wasnt that rockefellers first gig
19:33 < atum> or carnagie
19:33 < atum> one of the maganates
19:33 < delinquentme> Oh no im just saying that biotech != FDA and the pharma approval times
19:34 < atum> werd
19:34 < yashgaroth> it's = for biopharma
19:34 < atum> regulation is only for ppl that want to play in the system
19:34 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: the patent system isn't to protect you from snakeoil
19:34 < atum> biotech can easily be done underground and have much faster results
19:34 < delinquentme> its to ensure proper pricing and margins on snakeoil
19:34 < yashgaroth> no, patents provide a way to get funding for research
19:35 <@kanzure> ok, so again, i don't see why "just like I haven't seen an alternative to the patent system" is relevant
19:35 < atum> its quite likely that there are clandestine facilities where research is advanced and not regulated
19:35 <@kanzure> and plus, sure you have (no patets at all)
19:35 <@kanzure> *patents
19:35 < atum> black budget facilities or something
19:35 < atum> maas biotech
19:35 <@kanzure> atum: i haven't seen any.
19:35 < yashgaroth> because you can't just replace either system because it'd be good to do so
19:35 <@kanzure> most of the clandenstine drug labs are barely operational
19:35 < atum> and youve been around a bit you say kanzure
19:36 <@kanzure> but this is because of economic incentivizes to not be large
19:36 <@kanzure> (i.e. if you're too large it's much easier to be found by authorities, unless you're not selling anything of course..)
19:36 < atum> werd, because there is no benifite to making a secret drug unless its designed to kill
19:36 <@kanzure> what?
19:36 <@kanzure> wtf?
19:36 <@kanzure> who are you anyway
19:36 < atum> ie; race specific bioweapons failure
19:37 < yashgaroth> uhhh
19:37 < delinquentme> http://vimeo.com/43431035
19:37 < delinquentme> tactus .. tactile buttons from your smartphone screen
19:38 <@kanzure> meh
19:38 <@kanzure> tactus was spamming the open manufacturing list
19:38 <@kanzure> i blocked them.
19:38 < yashgaroth> dat narrator
19:38 < atum> no ones going to let you use a chemical weapon in conventional theatre., so theres no point in developing it in secret. so --- as you say this is because of economice incentives to not be large
19:38 <@kanzure> no, i wasn't talking about weapon development
19:38 <@kanzure> i was talking about meth labs.
19:39 < atum> oh
19:39 <@kanzure> the larger your economic footprint, the easier it is to be found out.
19:39 < atum> same thing
19:39 < atum> amirite
19:39 <@kanzure> nope.
19:39 < atum> well thanks to the war on drugs meth production has moved into mexico
19:39 < atum> now its a cia business
19:39 < atum> problem solved
19:39 < atum> OUTSOURCE
19:39 <@kanzure> it hasn't all moved into mexico, no.
19:39 < atum> methtowns are aweful
19:40 < atum> sort of like crack is weaponized cocaine - bad for some people, but otherwise good for business
19:41 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o yashgaroth] by kanzure
19:41 <@kanzure> you deal with this
19:41  * kanzure goes back to coding
19:41 <@yashgaroth> the power
19:41 < atum> ive done enough meth to know how bad it is
19:41 < atum> when i lived in arkansas the bomb squad and hazmat would go by once a month or so
19:41 < atum> busting up a lab
19:42 <@yashgaroth> I lost the thread of this conversation a while ago
19:42 <@kanzure> fff
19:43 < delinquentme> kanzure, so i sent a message to the genome compiler guy and basically told him that I dont think he wants a photoshop for synthetic biology but instead a automation pipeline
19:43 < atum> there was a misunderstanding about the nature of the labs initially
19:43 < atum> but otherwise like new
19:43 <@yashgaroth> I don't wanna do it
19:43 < delinquentme> he replied that we basically lack the hardware integration
19:43 <@kanzure> delinquentme: that guy isn't very bright. he built his whole company around Adobe Air
19:43 <@kanzure> yeah, he's not a hardware guy if he's using adobe air
19:43 < delinquentme> lol kanzure i mean its a tool
19:43 <@kanzure> i don't have a lot of respect for him
19:43 < delinquentme> it works and he likes UIs because hes a scientist
19:43 <@kanzure> i think he's a non-hardware non-software person
19:43 <@kanzure> no he's not
19:44 < delinquentme> a scientist?
19:44 <@kanzure> yes, it seems all superficial
19:44 <@kanzure> he's trying to sell you something anyway (proprietary, crappy UI software)
19:44 < delinquentme> i thought hes got a PHD
19:44 <@kanzure> doesn't seem to do him much good man
19:44 < delinquentme> well i like the idea
19:44 < delinquentme> how about you?
19:44 <@kanzure> you just like it because it has 'compiler' in the name
19:44 <@kanzure> just because it's called compiler doesn't mean it's an actual compiler
19:44 <@kanzure> most of those tools already exist as open source software out there
19:44 < delinquentme> absolutely thats the hardware part
19:45 <@kanzure> every year the 'clotho' guy pops up and starts spamming people about how amazing his UI is
19:45 < delinquentme> hes got a genome autocad or something like that
19:45 <@kanzure> not really
19:45 <@kanzure> i mean, he claims it is, but who cares
19:45 <@kanzure> if it's any good, it means i have to rewrite it anyway since it's proprietary
19:45 <@kanzure> fuck that
19:45 <@kanzure> he's just increasing the amount of work i have to do later
19:46 <@kanzure> bleh
19:46 < delinquentme> well the point was
19:46 < delinquentme> hardware
19:46 < atum> yout a couple protiens in a petrii dish and have them do math
19:46 <@kanzure> delinquentme: he's not a hardware person, i don't trust his opinion about hardware
19:46 < atum> how hard would it be to take a couple really long strings and dip them in the pool of life
19:47 <@kanzure> delinquentme: all sorts of hardware is hackable. he's lying to you.
19:47 < delinquentme> kanzure, lets step away from the ad hominem
19:47 < delinquentme> ok i get it you dont like *HIM*
19:47 <@kanzure> if he's telling you that hardware interfaces are impossible, he's still ying to you
19:47 <@kanzure> *lying
19:47 < delinquentme> but if hes got thourough mappings of metabolic pathways?
19:47 < delinquentme> no
19:47 < delinquentme> where are you getting this?
19:47 < delinquentme> slow down
19:47 <@kanzure> you said it
19:47 <@kanzure> 19:43 < delinquentme> he replied that we basically lack the hardware integration
19:48 < delinquentme> lacking != impossible
19:48 <@kanzure> are you saying that his /company/ is lacking it
19:48 < delinquentme> im saying that I think the market wants it
19:48 <@kanzure> wants what?
19:48 < delinquentme> OOC are metabolic pathways out there?
19:48 <@kanzure> and what is "the market"
19:49 < delinquentme> like can I get a codified version of ecoli metabolic pathways?
19:49 <@kanzure> i'm just trying to get you to be more precise about your thinking
19:49 <@kanzure> "the market" is a vague way of waving your hands aimlessly
19:49 <@kanzure> yes, people in general like computers to be hooked up, it's true
19:50 < delinquentme> yeah so I mean if hes building a software package for 1 off ecoli modifications
19:50 <@kanzure> but what you need to do- like we've been telling you for months now- is get a number of people to sign statements saying they will pay $X,000 for your hardware
19:50 < delinquentme> thats not the end goal
19:50 < delinquentme> the end goal is specify inputs and outputs and the model organism and to have machines crunch, sequence, synthesize, insert incubate test and quantify
19:50 < delinquentme> over and over until we've got candidates we're interested in
19:51 < delinquentme> hence why I told him I think he should be less interested in a UI and more interested in a software pipeline for these processes
19:51 <@kanzure> i don't think he's a software guy, he probably doesn't understand that.
19:51 < atum> fox p2
19:52 < atum> -that gene alone is responsible for language
19:52 <@kanzure> atum: not really. foxp2 is responsible for many things.
19:52 < atum> oh im repeating the television, watching some show about ... genes and what not
19:52 <@kanzure> like in lung/gut
19:53 <@kanzure> ok television is probably not the most accurate source of biology knowledge :P
19:53 < atum> obv :P
19:53 < delinquentme> ok but back to the metabolic pathways
19:53 <@kanzure> are you describing software you're writing?
19:53 < delinquentme> is there some kind of codified map of the ecoli metabolic pathways
19:53 <@kanzure> this is what ncbi is for. go look up kegg or the other kegg-replacements.
19:54 -!- notunoriginalAFK is now known as not_unoriginal
19:54 < delinquentme> OHHHH kanzure did i tell you about the busted NCBI data?
19:54 < delinquentme> I found a number of papers which had missing information and I emailed them with completed information sets and cites
19:54 < delinquentme> " If we dont get it from the publisher it doesn't go in there "
19:55 < delinquentme> so yeah theres are a number of papers in there with missing DOIs which have them but only outside of NCBI
20:06 -!- chevbird [~chevbird@209-6-62-26.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20:06 -!- chevbird [~chevbird@209-6-62-26.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:10 -!- srangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:10 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Disconnected by services]
20:10 -!- srangewarp is now known as strangewarp
20:18 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20:55 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20:55 -!- srangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:58 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20:58 -!- srangewarp is now known as strangewarp
21:01 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:11 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
21:16 -!- nmz787_ [~androirc@173-96-45-192.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:17 -!- nmz787_ [~androirc@173-96-45-192.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Client Quit]
21:44 -!- klafka [~textual@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
21:44 -!- qnm [~qnm@2001:44b8:3110:f300:208:9bff:fec0:179a] has quit [Disconnected by services]
21:45 -!- qnm_ [~robsharp@203.48.101.90] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
21:45 -!- qnm [~qnm@2001:44b8:3110:f300:208:9bff:fec0:179a] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:05 -!- srangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:08 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
22:08 -!- srangewarp is now known as strangewarp
23:13 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+v yashgaroth] by yashgaroth
23:13 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:15 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit []
--- Log closed Wed Jun 06 00:00:32 2012