--- Log opened Sat Jun 16 00:00:41 2012
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02:24 < brownies> kanzure: wasn't it today?
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05:26 < fenn> long awaited services upgrade and database prune, oh boy
05:26  * fenn battens down the hatches
05:33 < JayDugger> Good luck.
06:00 < JayDugger> Good luck to fenn and to Steel2.
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07:30 < archels> kanzure: thanks, checking out http://anselmlevskaya.com/
07:32 < archels> seems like I guy I would get along with; does he ever come on here to chat?
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07:35 < archels> Hacking Biology is like trying to root an alien server over a milli-baud TTY connection with no error correction and no echo. #diybio
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08:08 < chido> klafka2: we do exist, we just are kind of quiet about it
08:12 < chido> Steel2: ^ I guess that was meant for you... I'm still sleepy
08:13 < bkero> Whatever, I'll do it over my gameboy.
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08:32 < Steel2> hey chido, I know, it's just amusing
08:38 < chido> I've never met anyone into it up until now, girl or boy
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08:40 < bkero> There is definitely a community.
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08:58 < chido> probably not where I come from though
09:04 < bkero> Good news: There was an invention called the internet, and on that invention people communicated regardless of physical location.
09:05 < bkero> At this very moment I'm in the remote city of Iqaluit, Nunavut, Canada communicating through a satellite uplink.
09:16 < chido> you can't go out for a beer using the internet though
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09:42 <@kanzure> booop
09:42 <@kanzure> brownies: it's both days
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09:42 <@kanzure> archels: he hasn't entered this irc channel but he does monitor the diybio list, and lives with fenn or something
09:45 <@kanzure> so, the major problem with conferences (besides people never paying attention) is that any time an actually relevant-to-my-interest talk shows up, the speaker never goes into sufficient technical detail
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09:45 < brownies> kanzure: i see. how was it yesterday?
09:45 <@kanzure> and meanwhile everyone is in total spending $100k to get there
09:45 < brownies> and how was your conference?
09:45 <@kanzure> so why not just pay for those "speakers" to get together and e.g. pay them to talk about those actual technical details
09:46 <@kanzure> brownies: to be honest, 'startup science' was an okay group of people, but the product pitches were definitely shrug-worthy
09:46 <@kanzure> brownies: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/startup-science-2012/
09:46 < brownies> no chronological numbering =(
09:47 < brownies> kanzure: and how was the other one, where you spoke at and whatnot
09:47 <@kanzure> one moment
09:47 < brownies> k
09:47 < ParahSailin> almost like talks are useless for information transmission! http://www.paulgraham.com/speak.html
09:47 <@kanzure> adler, peerj, academia.edu, ah fuck it
09:47 <@kanzure> brownies: also, the science exchange chick (elizabeth) was talking about "startup tips"
09:48 < brownies> kanzure: heh that's the one i opened first
09:48 <@kanzure> but none of her tips were all that valid.. like, she got into ycombinator and that changes a lot of things
09:48 < brownies> hahah
09:48 < brownies> "my advice is to get into YC."
09:48 <@kanzure> "step 1: get into ycombinator"
09:48 <@kanzure> yeah no kidding
09:50 <@kanzure> brownies: so, if everyone pays $1k in travel fees to get out to a conference, and then sits around on their laptops, i don't really understand
09:50 <@kanzure> i'm on my laptop because i'm transcribing, what are their excuses?
09:50 < brownies> they're here for the networking!
09:51 <@kanzure> i mean, 100 people paying $1k each is actually a big hunk of cash that can go towards 'crazy diy startup sciencey projects'
09:51 < brownies> i don't know; generally the major value-add of a conference *for me* is to immediately barge into conversation with the speakers i want to meet
09:51 <@kanzure> yes theoretically, except we were all kicked out of the venue at 5pm sharp
09:51 < brownies> and/or i just speak at the damn thing, thereby achieving the same goal
09:51 < brownies> kanzure: oh, well, that's hilariously dumb.
09:52 <@kanzure> conferences line up speakers, but the speakers agree to speak because it's sorta ego-inflating or something
09:52 <@kanzure> i think i might prefer the expert-led workshop model
09:53 <@kanzure> instead of traveling around the world and all of us spending a total $100k, why don't we spend that $100k on something like, $5k in buying everyone microphones and webcams, and then $95k on a crazy project, and then network over the interwebz
09:53 <@kanzure> in most cases i find that >60% of the conference attendees already know each other
09:54 < brownies> well, that's because in your case it's the same 12 people talking about the same projects
09:55 <@kanzure> i was also thinking of just paying some 'advanced optics' guy to hang out in this irc channel for $50/hour for 8 hours sometime, and just do tutoring and shit
09:55 <@kanzure> or s/advanced optics/insert some other thing that you would usually have to go to a conference or school to get people to talk about/
10:01 < brownies> kanzure: as i understand it, scientists are lonely and want to talk about their work, and you'd probably just have to give him coffee or something
10:01 < brownies> kanzure: besides, stop inflating grad student wages, asshole
10:04 <@kanzure> yeah, i realize that $50 is really super high
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10:05 <@kanzure> brownies: besides the usual reasons (incompetence; awful implementations) why did 'web conferencing' never take off for these events?
10:05 <@kanzure> humanity+ tried to force me to use secondlife/telexlr8or but i hated those things- why not just fucking irc channels?
10:05 < brownies> secondlife?
10:05 < brownies> what the hell?
10:06 < brownies> kanzure: it's bumbling around (it = webconferencing) -- i'd like to think it's on the uptick, as people slowly figure out that java applets may not be the future
10:06 < brownies> i'm still not aware of in-browser HTML5-only idiot-proof webconferencing though.
10:07 <@kanzure> well, i don't really mean webex or any of that shit either
10:08 <@kanzure> java applet stigma definitely caused a slowdown on its adoption tho
10:08 <@kanzure> oh also, before i forget..
10:09 <@kanzure> someone should use phantomjs + d3.js to do scientific-visualization-rendering-as-a-service
10:09 <@kanzure> e.g. for configuring beautiful-but-cheap figures to paste into your latex-written papers
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10:11 <@kanzure> yash-phone: yo
10:11 < yash-phone> hey
10:11 < yash-phone> getting brunch
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10:12 < yash-phone> you guys at the conf?
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10:29 < brownies> kanzure: naw fuck that ... static unchanging PDFs are important.
10:29 < brownies> kanzure: are you going to the conference today? ...are you already there?
10:30 < yash-phone> can't all you channel people just meet up at langton or something? i don't wanna commute for 3 hours
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10:46 <@kanzure> yash-phone: i'm at langton
10:46 <@kanzure> and nathan is still here
10:46 <@kanzure> brownies: didn't you say you wanted to meet langton labs at some point anyway?
10:47 <@kanzure> brownies: btw i meant that phantomjs would be used to render the image, which would then be static (i hate html widgets for graphs when they would normally be static images; interactive things aren't drop-in replacements ever)
10:48 < brownies> but then why not just render a nice LaTeX graph?
10:48 < brownies> kanzure: i do want to meet them, but ... grumble grumble... i'm tired of driving in to the city
10:48 <@kanzure> i'm not aware of how nice you can get things with latex graphing/visualization tools
10:49 <@kanzure> from what i've seen, d3/three.js/raphaeljs produce some pretty bitching shit
10:49 <@kanzure> and i can't imagine that scientific illustration shops are doing anythig more complicated than "hire artist; have artist draw things until it looks professional"...
10:49 <@kanzure> *anything
10:50 <@kanzure> oh that's right.. elsevier has some website where they "connect" you to scientific illustrators; not sure how legit that was
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11:18 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: i would like to get the NRA's support on diybio for using gene guns (shotguns, basically)
11:18 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: any suggestions for that? i was thinking i might write them a letter, but they might interpret that as a comedy piece
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11:33 < chris_99> don't you use airguns for gene guns
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11:44 <@kanzure> guidelines: http://www.nrafoundation.org/grants/graphics/ggg.pdf
11:50 <@kanzure> what is the relationship between the NRA and FBI?
11:50 <@kanzure> the NRA says they support law enforcement groups so maybe i can have the FBI co-write this grant application
11:56 <@kanzure> http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/1400369/nra-suing-fbi-over-gun-owner-list
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12:42 <@kanzure> huh they also give grants for robots and biohazard suits
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13:02 < brownies> kanzure: you've transcribed some fascinating stories
13:02 < brownies> kanzure: " This is Hairy Creamer, he was a business magnet in the 60s who was fascinated about human powered flight."
13:03 < brownies> poor guy must have had a hell of a time in elementary school.
13:03 <@kanzure> i am terrible at writing down names so sometimes i just make things up
13:04 < brownies> haha
13:04 <@kanzure> "Ever since he was a young girl, Hairy Creamer wanted to fly in the sky."
13:05 <@kanzure> btw feel free to fix typos
13:05 <@kanzure> git clone git://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki.git
13:09 < chris_99> have you considered using mturk for transcription?
13:10 <@kanzure> i haven't found any service that is faster than me for real-time transcripts
13:10 <@kanzure> wait, hm that sounds pretty weird
13:12 < brownies> usually you have to pay top-dollar for good real-time transcripts
13:12 < brownies> $1-2 per minute, something like that.
13:12 <@kanzure> that's not bad
13:12 < brownies> no one tell kanzure, so we can keep enjoying the free fruits of his slave labor.
13:12 < chris_99> hehe
13:12 <@kanzure> does $1/min include a stenographer showing up?
13:12 < brownies> no, it's virtual
13:13 < brownies> i guess you'd have to stream it to them. i don't know why i said real-time.
13:13 <@kanzure> ok who does virtual-but-real-time transcripting?
13:13 <@kanzure> yeah, ok.
13:13 < brownies> what i meant was ... s/real-time//
13:13 <@kanzure> i wonder if real-time transcription is a thing that customers want
13:13 <@kanzure> like people seem to really enjoy me doing these transcripts and a conference organizer would probably pay a few bucks for it
13:16 <@kanzure> most conferences have all these videos that end up on youtube
13:16 <@kanzure> and all the shit listed on http://diyhpl.us:9001/
13:16 <@kanzure> transcripts would be more useful to me than lots of video that i have to re-watch
13:16 <@kanzure> but the real-time aspect may or may not provide additional advantage
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13:17 <@kanzure> if anything, it's a loss because i sometimes hear "is not" as an "is"
13:17 <@kanzure> and other things (like names) get muddled and typoed
13:20 < brownies> i *hate* watching videos
13:20 < brownies> i would pay for it -- in the sense that i'd pay $10 extra for a conf ticket to get it
13:20 <@kanzure> you pay for conference tickets? o_o
13:20 < brownies> make it a mandatory fee for 100 - 1000 attendees, and that's not bad.
13:20 < brownies> kanzure: sometimes.
13:20 <@kanzure> so, scientific conferences have this shit down (more or less)
13:21 < brownies> kanzure: the price of a conference ticket is a nice filter to make sure people show up and pay attention and make it worthwhile.
13:21 <@kanzure> before you arrive, you get a list of fucking abstracts
13:21 <@kanzure> and possibly papers
13:21 < brownies> kanzure: hm, never been, i think. go on.
13:21 <@kanzure> and then when you show up, you know who to talk with and what to ask
13:21 < brownies> hmm
13:21 <@kanzure> and then everything gets published as something like "Proceedings of the 58th Molecular Biology Bullshitters Gentleman's Club"
13:21 < brownies> that does sound nice
13:21 < brownies> here's the difference, though:
13:22 < brownies> at non-scientific conferences, you're more likely to get people who are good speakers. so you *want* to hear them talk if you're there in person.
13:22 < brownies> s/the difference/a difference/
13:22 < brownies> but if everyone shared abstracts of wtf they were going to say first, i'd still like that.
13:22 <@kanzure> most conferences provide a two or three sentence abstract, especially if the attendees have to decide between multiple simultaneous talks
13:23 < brownies> yup. this is true. and a schedule. and bios of speakers.
13:23 < brownies> so... there's no difference, except charging for tickets? -_-
13:24 <@kanzure> i get so bored at conferences, even the somewhat technical ones, because i'm just staring at the presenter talking about something and wishing he would get an order of magnitude more technical
13:24 <@kanzure> i think it would be moer useful to have audience bios or a pre-survey like,
13:24 <@kanzure> "how many would like to learn about how to model fluid flow in microfluidics"
13:24 <@kanzure> or "how many would like to know about picking a good co-founder"
13:25 < brownies> i often include a pretend poll at the start of my talk, that makes people feel like they had a say in the content
13:25 < brownies> it doesn't actually change the content of the talk, though, except at most by 10%
13:25 <@kanzure> it should be not just "% of attendees interested in this elaborated talk" but also "what percentage of time do you feel shoudl be devoted to it"
13:25 < brownies> well, presumably you want to hear this person because they're competent enough to make such decisions on their own
13:25 <@kanzure> so if 30% of the crowd feels something should be 90% of the time, and the other 70% of the crowd is indifferent, then go for that 30%'s preference...
13:25 <@kanzure> yeah i mean, the speaker ultimately gets to decide of course
13:26 <@kanzure> but like, say you have 100 attendees
13:26 <@kanzure> 10 are actually programmers
13:26 <@kanzure> 90 are science geeks who might be interested in programming
13:26 <@kanzure> if you are giving a talk about github, *nobody* cares about github's ui
13:26 <@kanzure> you should talk about the internals to the git state representation or some shit
13:26 < brownies> also: debatably the attendees are there because they don't know the topic, so their input on granular pieces of the topic will be of limited value
13:26 <@kanzure> if you aregoing to be talking to that 10%, you might as well up your game and make it useful for those 10 people, damn
13:26 < brownies> ehhh. false dichotomy.
13:27 <@kanzure> oh?
13:27 < brownies> the amount of value i get from a talk is not 0 or 1
13:27 < brownies> it's some float in [0, 1] ... depending on a variety of things
13:27 < brownies> so shouldn't the speaker maximize the sum of the audience utility?
13:28 <@kanzure> haha
13:28 <@kanzure> well. i don't know. depends on the goal of the conference and talk.
13:29 <@kanzure> in 'advanced physics 501' you don't teach to the lowest common denominator....
13:29 < brownies> well, yes, but advanced physics 501 is something you pay $40,000 a year for the privilege of attending
13:33 < brownies> (presumably)
13:41 <@kanzure> i am surprised that lanyrd isn't more focused on 'conference disruption'
13:41 < brownies> what're they doing?
13:41 <@kanzure> there was that twitter backroom thing that was trying to do 'conference attendee real-time communications' stuff in 2007-2008 but everyone hated it
13:41 < brownies> i'd like them to focus on a name with more vowels
13:41 <@kanzure> lanyrd is just doing conference schedule aggregation
13:41 < brownies> kanzure: well, no one needs conference real time bullshit
13:41 <@kanzure> and eventbrite is just doing attendee registration
13:41 < brownies> going to a conference IS real-time
13:41 <@kanzure> brownies: exactly
13:46 <@kanzure> brownies: are you coming by langton today? yashgaroth and chido are here
13:46 <@kanzure> and fenn is here somewhere
13:46 <@kanzure> nmz787 will be back later with his girl after they are done with simon field's farm.. thing
13:46 < brownies> kanzure: bleh. unlikely.
13:46 < brownies> how much longer are you in town again?
13:46 <@kanzure> i don't really know how there is a farm in the middle of san francisco but i didn't ask either
13:46 <@kanzure> i am leaving on sunday
13:47 < brownies> that's tomorrow?
13:47 <@kanzure> yes
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17:17 <@kanzure> pasky: ping?
17:17 <@kanzure> chido wants you to know that she's alive
17:30 < pasky> good, thanks! tell her to stay that way ;-)
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17:44 <@kanzure> pasky: thanks for running git.or.cz
17:44 <@kanzure> are you the one who did the new git-scm.com site too?
18:02 < pasky> you're welcome :) no, i think it's scott chacon who is maintaining that
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18:29 <@kanzure> Makris N et al. (2005). "Segmentation of subcomponents within the superior longitudinal fascicle in humans: a quantitative, in vivo, DT-MRI study". Cereb. Cortex 15 (6): 854–69. DOI:10.1093/cercor/bhh186. PMID 15590909.
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19:16 <@kanzure> http://braininfo.rprc.washington.edu/TemplateNeuroMaps.aspx
19:18 <@kanzure> diffusion imaging in python http://nipy.sourceforge.net/dipy/
19:18 <@kanzure> "Dipy is an international, free and open soure software project for diffusion magnetic resonance imaging analysis"
19:18 <@kanzure> well alright then
19:19 <@kanzure> "Ultra fast tractography clustering"
19:19 <@kanzure> video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNB0sM7JJqg
19:23 <@kanzure> http://pymvpa.org/
19:24 <@kanzure> "dipy.reconst is for the reconstruction algorithms which we use to create directionality models for a voxel from the raw data."
19:26 <@kanzure> nibabel looks useful too.. neuroimaging file conversion stuff http://nipy.sourceforge.net/nibabel/
19:26 <@kanzure> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/nipy-devel
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19:55 <@kanzure> "In dipy we usually represent tractography as a list of tracks. Every track is a numpy array of shape (N,3) where N is the number of points in the track."
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20:11 <@kanzure> hrm? /home/user/Data/PBC/pbc2009icdm/brain1/brain1_scan1_fiber_track_mni.trk
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20:48 <@kanzure> http://www.bama.ua.edu/~wguo2/Publication/ISBI06_Using%20multiple%20tensor%20deflection%20to%20reconstruct%20white%20matter%20fiber%20traces.pdf
20:49 <@kanzure> 'Mapping Anatomical Connectivity Patterns of Human Cerebral Cortex Using In Vivo Diffusion Tensor Imaging Tractography'
20:49 <@kanzure> http://www.lrdc.pitt.edu/schneider/bcm/readings/Lecture%205/Bammer%202003.PDF
20:49 <@kanzure> somewhat longer piece:
20:49 <@kanzure> http://vis.cs.brown.edu/docs/pdf/Demiralp-2012-EBC.pdf
20:49 <@kanzure> laser dopler imaging for neurosurgery http://miplab.epfl.ch/pub/raabe0901.pdf
20:50 <@kanzure> Strategies for brain shift evaluation http://www.ann.jussieu.fr/~frey/papers/biomedical/brain_shift/Hastreiter%20P.,%20Strategies%20for%20brain%20shift%20evaluation.pdf
20:51 <@kanzure> http://trackvis.org/ "TrackVis is a software tool that can visualize and analyze fiber track data from diffusion MR imaging (DTI/DSI/HARDI/Q-Ball) tractography."
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21:32 <@kanzure> Jora: check ze logs?
21:32  * kanzure sleeps
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21:35 <@kanzure> langton labs should publish academic articles
21:35 <@kanzure> 'proceedings of langton labs, volume 1 issue 1'
21:44 < jrayhawk> i can't think of a way to get the NRA interested in gene guns
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22:16 < nmz787_> Yo
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22:21 < Juul> nmz787_, hi
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22:48 < Juul> hey kanzure
22:49 < nmz787> hes sleeping
22:49 < nmz787> what you up to ?
22:50 < Juul> i'm in San Diego picking up some things
22:50 < Juul> did you go to the startup science thing?
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23:14 < nmz787> not today
23:14 < nmz787> was in and out yesterday
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23:27 < Juul> ok
23:29 < Mokbortolan_> does pulsing tDCS change the effect?
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23:33 < Mokbortolan_> maybe at the khz range it wouldn't make any difference
23:34 < Mokbortolan_> I was thinking time-domain mutiplexing multiple current paths
23:34 < Mokbortolan_> so you could affect multiple sections differently
23:36 < Mokbortolan_> I wonder if you could work EEG readings into the domain as well
23:37 < Mokbortolan_> or if there is some remnant of energy that might interfere with them until some amount of time has passed
23:40 < chido> nmz787: too bad we didn't get to say goodbye
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--- Log closed Sun Jun 17 00:00:42 2012