--- Log opened Thu Jun 21 00:00:46 2012 00:14 < kanzure> http://templemanautomation.com/ 00:14 < kanzure> "Chris Templeman is an engineer and presumably owns Templeman Automation in Somerville. It turns out he was the driving force behind the sub $200 (if i recall correctly) PCR machine that was released by cofactor bio a while back." 00:14 < kanzure> cofactor/mac cowell didn't release a thermocycler, what is avery talking about? 00:26 -!- Utopiah [~utopiah@rps7452.ovh.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:26 -!- Utopiah [~utopiah@unaffiliated/utopiah] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:40 -!- Thorbinator1 [~Thorbinat@c-67-166-146-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41 -!- augur_ [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:42 -!- Thorbinator [~Thorbinat@c-67-166-146-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:42 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:50 -!- kvltist [~Kvltist@p5B33F01B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:09 -!- not_unoriginal [18c70e76@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.199.14.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:21 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/pokered/crystal/graphs/crystal.html 01:21 < kanzure> hrmmm 01:24 < kanzure> 4216 is informative (0x1078) 01:24 < kanzure> looks like it might be scripting or text related 02:33 -!- Juul [~Juul@208.87.217.74] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:33 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-14-176-179.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:33 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-14-176-179.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:19 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-5d.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:19 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-5d.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:19 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:42 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:07 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@26.55.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:10 < fenn> i hope nmz787 found a somewhere to sleep in chicago 04:11 < fenn> i'm not good at scheduling things 04:19 < fenn> never heard of MEDUSA4 (cad program) - "Users have to register to receive a free 6-month license, which can be extended in perpetuity. MEDUSA4 Personal is a fully functional version" 04:21 < fenn> no parametrics though.. what's the point 04:21 < fenn> well, not in the free version 04:22 < fenn> crippleware still exists huh 04:28 < fenn> not impressed 04:35 < fenn> why does "dcoetzee" sound so familiar 04:36 < fenn> seems like someone i would know, but i don't know how i know him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dcoetzee 04:43 < fenn> stupid brain 04:48 < chido> hi fenn 04:48 < fenn> hi 04:52 < fenn> wish granted: http://scripts.irssi.org/html/gtrans.pl.html 05:05 < fenn> d'eaux! "The v1 API, which this module is based on, WILL BE SHUT OFF COMPLETELY by Google on Dec 1, 2011." 05:06 < fenn> also, ffs perl wtf is up with cpan permissions 05:15 < fenn> hmm threonine tastes sweet 05:16 < chido> ....how 05:17 -!- Juul [~Juul@208.87.217.74] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:17 < chido> fenn: also, here are the pictures I took https://picasaweb.google.com/radka.haneckova/07FBIDIYbioWorkshopThreeBiologistsAtTheBeach 05:24 < fenn> chido: can you access gen.lib.rus.ec? 05:26 < fenn> hee i like your anime drawing 05:26 < superkuh> Looks up to me. But other mirrors of libgen have been down lately;weird dns entries for free-books. 05:27 < fenn> hrm. i got one ping reply from it 05:28 < superkuh> For the last couple days free-books.to.us had been resolving to 127.0.0.2. It looks like that entry (and all others) are gone now. 05:31 < fenn> supposedly there are 9TB of books in their torrent.. i think this would be a worthy project to try to clone 05:31 < fenn> not sure why this is so hard to do 05:32 < fenn> mail hard drive to russia with self-addressed stamped envelope 05:32 < fenn> 3TB hard drive at costco is $139 05:32 * fenn grumps 05:38 < fenn> "The history of libraries is that they get burned." 06:26 -!- chevbird [~chevbird@209-6-62-26.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:46 -!- ENKI-][ [~john@c-71-232-69-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:49 -!- Burninate [~ass@pool-173-66-18-189.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:49 -!- Burninate [~ass@pool-173-66-18-189.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:52 -!- Jaakko96 [~Jaakko@host86-131-170-191.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:55 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-81-239.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:14 < chido> fenn: it seems I can 07:14 < chido> fenn: also, which drawing? :D 07:15 < fenn> in the sand 07:18 < chido> ooh :) 07:18 < chido> that's the protagonist of my webcomic, emptytriangle.com 07:19 < fenn> ah a go player 07:26 < chido> not that much anymore 07:27 < chido> it's what I did before I got into biology 07:27 < fenn> you let pachi do all the hard work? :P 07:28 < chido> well he's stronger than his creators, I guess that's what he's here for :) 07:34 < fenn> i used to use a zaurus for looking up kanji. i started keeping "appointments" on it to keep track of what i had done with each day. eventually it turned into this: http://fennetic.net/sleep/cairo.html 07:35 < fenn> i'm a bit behind on transcribing 07:36 < chido> oh wow 07:36 < chido> looks like the output of those activity monitoring chambers for rodents 07:37 < fenn> *squeak* 07:37 < fenn> yeah my phase response curve is broken 07:38 < chido> you sure sleep a lot 07:39 < fenn> :( 07:39 < fenn> it's scary to sum up your food totals for a year 07:39 < chido> I don't wanna know 07:40 < fenn> my most-consumed food was chocolate 07:40 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:40 < chido> but I think the sleep total is scarier, imagine what one could do with the excess time if one could abolish the need for sleep 07:40 < chido> mine would be ramen probably 07:40 < fenn> i'm not so concerned, it's only a 2x increase 07:41 < fenn> on the other hand, i seem to waste most of my waking/active hours 07:41 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:41 < fenn> too many directions to gallop 07:41 < fenn> like, i just spent an hour reading "modernist cuisine" - why? 07:41 < chido> too much world out there, too little time 07:42 < fenn> i hope magnesium supplementation will cut down on my "blegh" days 07:43 < fenn> it's doing well so far 07:44 -!- Guest54736 [~chris@146.90.232.24] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:46 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:48 -!- Guest54736 [~chris@146.90.232.24] has quit [Client Quit] 07:48 -!- Jaakko96 [~Jaakko@host86-131-170-191.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 07:48 < kanzure> superkuh: there's also free-books.dont-exist.com 07:49 < JayDugger> Bill the hotel to Uncle Sam! 07:49 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:49 < fenn> kanzure: your link is out of date 07:50 < kanzure> i told anselm to mirror that torrent. i don't think he will though. 07:51 < fenn> it's actually 800 torrents 07:52 < kanzure> do you have them? or know which tracker has them? 07:52 < kanzure> i don't seem to have a copy 07:52 < fenn> it's in http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7191627/Library_Genesis_Repository_-_832K_eBooks_torrents__dB_and_source 07:53 < fenn> blah why do people archive torrent contents 07:53 < fenn> is bittorrent so stupid it can't zip packets before transmitting them? 07:53 < kanzure> jrayhawk: so why don't we have a mirror of that torrent already? 07:53 < kanzure> jrayhawk: do you need me to send hard drives? 07:54 * kanzure waits for his local sysadmin to wake up 07:54 * fenn waits for his nonlocal superposition to collapse 07:57 < kanzure> no i don't seem to know mcknew 07:57 < fenn> hm the magnets file is only 68k.. that can't be right 07:58 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/irc/library_genesis_magnets.txt 08:09 < kanzure> fenn: did you see john griessen's thermocycler in the backlogs? it was within the past few days 08:10 < kanzure> he is asking for $2k/mo for 3 months (ish) and the design seems a little bad, but i'm not sure 08:10 < kanzure> i think he's calling it AirPCR 08:11 < fenn> meh 08:12 < fenn> too many moving parts 08:12 < fenn> also, what about software 08:13 < kanzure> i don't know i'm still scratching my head about this recent doozie/catastrophe 08:13 < kanzure> https://github.com/cathalgarvey/OpenPyCR 08:14 < fenn> i don't get it. why not just write a sane firmware for the openpcr hardware ... supposedly it's open source so it should be possible 08:15 < fenn> is it actually arduino? 08:15 < kanzure> yes i think so 08:15 < fenn> then plug the fucker in, done. bam! 08:15 < kanzure> cathal was complaining that hacking his openpcr would make it unusable for some unknown amount of time 08:15 < kanzure> and that he can't afford to have it offline for more than a few hours 08:16 < fenn> what, because of the cost? substitute a different arduino. that's the whole fucking point of arduino 08:16 < kanzure> no not cost.. 'core lab abilities' and such (dunno man) 08:16 < fenn> huh? cathal can't do cathal projects because cathal would be impacted? 08:17 < fenn> jesus christ why can't anyone write decent firmware 08:18 < kanzure> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/diybio/mgjbCaMmsMk 08:21 < kanzure> fenn: also the airpcr stuff.. http://gnusha.org/logs/2012-06-19.log 08:21 < kanzure> 07:57 < kanzure> "It's like I've been talking about on the list -- based on a rotor that spins a carousel" 08:22 < kanzure> etc. 08:22 < fenn> i've never seen the with/as python idiom 08:22 < fenn> is that new? 08:22 < kanzure> python 3 08:23 < kanzure> no, wait 08:23 < fenn> seems to have been around since 2006 .. go figure 08:26 < fenn> O_DIRECT (Since Linux 2.4.10) Try to minimize cache effects of the I/O to and from this file. 08:26 < fenn> seems self explanatory.. 08:28 < fenn> i think this is the article cathal is looking for http://www.alexonlinux.com/direct-io-in-python 08:29 < kanzure> i think someone gave that link in that thread already? 08:29 < fenn> i'm not particularly interested in fixing openpcr's stupid design decisions though 08:29 < kanzure> no 08:29 < fenn> hm guess i should scroll down 08:30 < kanzure> it's like they got high and "ooh ooh! DUDE! I KNOW WHAT WE SHOULD DO... what if, like.. all the commands were put on an sdcard.. and then the sdcard goes INTO the pcrbox!!" 08:30 < fenn> why doesn't it have a bootloader? wtf. why would you delete the bootloader? come on guys 08:34 < fenn> "hey guys i have this great idea, we'll make open hardware but make it so hard to hack on nobody will bother, 2) ??? , 3) profit!" 08:34 < kanzure> i guess it means openpcr is pretty useful to cathal if he can't imagine living without it working for a week 08:35 < fenn> what is he doing anyway? 08:35 < fenn> i haven't read diybio for like 6 years 08:36 < kanzure> cathal has a home setup 08:36 < fenn> but what's the goal? 08:36 < kanzure> he's doing http://indiebiotech.com/ which is either a blog or a company.. he's been assembling some plasmid with useful things, i think 08:37 < fenn> maybe i'm dumb, but i just see a lot of technology in search of a problem 08:38 < kanzure> you could say that about any technology imaginable 08:39 < fenn> :\ 08:40 < kanzure> :grumpy old man: "these new god damned spears are just the same as the old pointy sticks, why back in my day we had to poke a tiger in the eye to be called a man" 08:40 < fenn> often i feel that people get really good at doing the wrong thing 08:41 < kanzure> yes biologists are very good at that 08:41 < kanzure> fuck cloning a gene out of a plasmid.. just print the dna you want 08:41 < fenn> why make recombinant insulin when you can cure diabetes with magnesium from seawater 08:42 < fenn> or even easier, *dont* eat crap fake food 08:42 < fenn> that's like, negative technological infrastruture right there 08:42 < fenn> i'm not being a luddite i swear 08:43 < fenn> sometimes it seems nobody's even trying to fix problems, they're all out to get rich 08:44 < fenn> the problems that do get fixed are like, "i can't read an uncached file from an sd card" and have no real impact on anything 08:44 < fenn> os.sync(); open(foo); done 08:44 < fenn> blargh 08:45 < kanzure> i thik he was on windows, or something, so that complicates things 08:45 < kanzure> step 1) uninstall windows 08:45 < fenn> no 08:46 < fenn> he wanted it to just be python 08:46 < fenn> anyway it's a stupid problem with a stupid solution 08:47 < fenn> how do i start my own cult/culture/country 08:47 < fenn> i just need 15 semi-competent engineers and a small nuclear reactor 08:47 < gl00m> maybe get an island 08:48 < gl00m> and move from there 08:48 < gl00m> ellison just got one of the hiwaiian islands 08:48 < fenn> no thanks, seasteading is untenable with current manufacturing technology 08:48 < fenn> i wish it werent so 08:48 < gl00m> id build up a military and invade neighboring islands 08:48 < kanzure> (10:45:09 AM) kanzure: how about os.sync() then open(file) 08:48 < kanzure> (10:47:28 AM) Cathal Garvey: Will investigate, thanks! Have my doubts, this is a common issue but seldom resolves well 08:48 < gl00m> and eventually capture some coast line 08:49 < fenn> kanzure: sorry, os.sync isn't a real thing 08:49 < gl00m> or alternativly, take over some african nation 08:49 < gl00m> or south american country 08:49 < fenn> gl00m: ugh please shut up 08:49 < kanzure> fenn: aroooo... i thought you had secret knowledge about the os module :( 08:49 < gl00m> how do i start my own cult/culture/country 08:49 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o fenn] by ChanServ 08:49 < kanzure> fenn: feel free to take out the trash 08:49 -!- Guest30281 [~chris@147.103.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:49 <@fenn> i was going to correct myself but it seems os.call disappeared and os.popen wasnt quite what i wanted 08:50 <@fenn> anyway os.popen("sync"); open(foo) 08:50 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:51 <@fenn> gl00m: idiots with guns has been rehashed a million times over history 08:51 <@fenn> i'm trying to build something here 08:51 -!- Guest30281 [~chris@147.103.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:51 < kanzure> hey what layout algorithm do i want for this data? 08:51 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/pokered/crystal/graphs/crystal.html 08:52 < kanzure> right now it's a force-directed graph 08:52 < kanzure> it's a graph of which functions call which other functions 08:52 * fenn braces for impact of giant png 08:52 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:52 < kanzure> oh it's much worse 08:52 < kanzure> i'd say at least 130x worse (javascript) 08:52 <@fenn> did you just kill my browser 08:53 < kanzure> yes probably 08:53 < kanzure> i owe you a new laptop anyway i think 08:53 <@fenn> nooooo 08:53 < kanzure> why didn't you ask me for my extra when i was at langton?? 08:53 <@fenn> your busted shitty laptop i've been telling you to put in the trash for years? that laptop? 08:53 < kanzure> the other one.. the mac 08:53 <@fenn> oh. 08:53 < kanzure> oh right because you'd probably hate it 08:53 <@fenn> i figured it was for work 08:53 < kanzure> no 08:54 <@fenn> meh, apple is good hardware 08:54 <@fenn> a tad expensive for what you get 08:54 < kanzure> i should probably install linux on it. don't know why i have osx on it. :( 08:55 * fenn mumbles something about virtualbox 08:55 <@fenn> ok i managed to kill that tab 08:56 < kanzure> anyway... large graph, think lots of lines and node 08:56 <@fenn> why are you doing this in javascript? 08:56 <@fenn> also i cant help but think of ghost diagrams 08:57 < kanzure> i wanted to play with d3.js 08:57 < kanzure> and i was annoyed that networkx didn't have a "just_fucking_show_me_the_graph()" 08:57 -!- gl00m is now known as Dr_Patrick 08:57 <@fenn> ah! it's the same person! 08:57 * fenn points 09:01 <@fenn> "the space station crashed due to unstable conditions in its orbit after exiting a time warp. At that time there was a number of highly technological advances and heretofore undiscovered lifeforms aboard the station. Much evidence of its existence is said to be in and around Berlin, including the aforementioned antenna, which was (according to stories) unmasked by East German and Soviet 09:01 <@fenn> scientists." 09:02 < Dr_Patrick> kanzure your graph reminds me of maltego 09:02 < kanzure> i wonder how much it would cost to get a soviet scientist on payroll 09:02 < kanzure> most scientists seem to work for dirt cheap anyway 09:03 <@fenn> just promise you will publish them in your journal 09:03 < kanzure> unfortunately i think i'll get some weird materialism/matter junk 09:04 <@fenn> o like A.B. Bolonkov or whatsisname 09:05 < kanzure> instead of one of the cool ones like sergey korolyov 09:05 <@fenn> bolonkin 09:06 <@fenn> i want a "doctorate in technical sciences" 09:06 <@fenn> talk about license to speculate 09:07 <@fenn> apparently bolonkin worked with korolev? i'm dubious 09:08 < kanzure> we should track the still-living somewhat-cool soviet scientists 09:09 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:10 <@fenn> yeah we dont have enough russian scientists around here already~ 09:10 < chido> come on leave some fun to us europeans 09:10 <@fenn> actually they all do advertising 09:10 <@fenn> i'm the most communist member of our commune 09:11 < chido> hey I actually can go out and vote for the communists here 09:12 <@fenn> somehow i doubt they're real communists 09:12 < kanzure> do you have a soviet academy of sciences? 09:12 < chido> no, a czech academy of sciences 09:12 < kanzure> hmmm 09:12 <@fenn> california academy of sciences? 09:13 < chido> is there such a thing? 09:13 < kanzure> do you mean chemical abstracts service (CAS)? 09:13 <@fenn> they keep butterflies and lizards in a giant terrarium :( 09:13 <@fenn> http://calacademy.org/ 09:14 <@fenn> it is a nice museum 09:15 < chido> is it the one on Berkeley campus? I tried to go there but it was too far for walking 09:15 < chido> "Expression of gene-gun injected plasmid 09:15 < chido> DNA in the ovine mammary gland 09:15 < chido> ouch 09:16 < chido> that's something I wouldn't use the gene gun for 09:17 < kanzure> shooting women with guns is just what the NRA is all about! 09:17 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-14-176-179.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:17 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-14-176-179.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:19 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:21 < chido> good point 09:21 < chido> and it's not like I need those glands for anything 09:22 < kanzure> surrogate pregnancies are the best. i don't know how popular they are though. 09:24 < chido> there has been some controversy about them here in europe 09:24 < chido> but then, there's a controversy about just anything here 09:25 < chido> but I like to consider it a perk, being able to grow my own embryos 09:25 < chido> did you contact the NRA already about the gene gun grant? :) 09:26 < kanzure> not yet- i want to ask biocurious first if they would be interested 09:33 < kanzure> "June 20.2012; (Bloomberg News) -- Exactly why James Markam is alive and well is a bit of a mystery. The octogenarian has lost four siblings to cancer, heart disease, and emphysema, all before they reached the age of 62." 09:33 < kanzure> "Yet the retired airline executive recalls only one bout of sickness, culminating with a chest cold, 50 years ago. Scientists are taking a deep look at Markam’s genetics to see if there’s something protecting him from illnesses that affect others his age, such as Alzheimer’s, cancer, diabetes, and heart disease." 09:33 < kanzure> "Markam, 83, is one of more than 1,300 individuals identified as having what Eric Topol, Director of the Scripps Translational Science Institute, called “Teflon-coated” genes." 09:33 < kanzure> "Markam, the 83-year-old San Diego resident, also takes supplements containing fish oil, red yeast, and glucosamine. He doesn't think his genes are anything special but feels lucky to have survived World War II and, later, being run over by a truck." 09:33 < kanzure> "He spends most of his time now running errands and tending a small garden of roses and a lemon tree in his backyard." 09:34 < kanzure> so... if runnin him over with a truck doesn't work, i'm gonna have to call highlander on this one. 09:34 < kanzure> *running 09:35 < Dr_Patrick> What a drag it is getting old. 09:36 < kanzure> bah 09:36 < kanzure> i'm more of a 12 year old than i ever was before 09:37 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:39 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-24-63-135-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:41 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-24-63-135-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:41 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-24-63-135-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:44 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-24-63-135-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:45 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-24-63-135-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:50 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-0b.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:50 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-0b.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:50 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:52 <@fenn> chido: heh you're the top result for "ing clock" 10:02 < delinquentme> what was the process published by some intel related research about 3 months back which showed promising results in the ability to sequence multiple genomes from an ecology ? 10:04 < delinquentme> kanzure, teflon genes? 10:12 -!- azonenberg [~azonenber@2001:470:888b:2:206:70ff:fe01:46] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:15 -!- azonenberg [~azonenber@2001:470:888b:2:206:70ff:fe01:46] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:17 < delinquentme> kanzure, i just had a kid on reddit come to me w a project that seems cool 10:17 < delinquentme> he wants to build out a repo with which people can push up research thats non-published material 10:18 < delinquentme> Say if you're a researcher and made an outstanding graph of something ... if that graph was in a research publication .. no problem they've got that solved. However if it was just in a presentation or something 10:18 < delinquentme> They'd love to share it .. however there is no established protocol for citation 10:19 <@fenn> i believe the concept you're searching for is called "universal resource locator" or URL for short 10:19 <@fenn> er, uniform* 10:19 < delinquentme> fenn, does that not assume that the researcher knows how to do that 10:19 < delinquentme> I mean WE know how to get it on the web 10:19 <@fenn> i pity the fool 10:20 < delinquentme> knowledge is not uniformly distributed 10:20 < delinquentme> =] 10:25 <@fenn> delinquentme: i'm reading comics. what. 10:25 < delinquentme> soo can I pre order the cutter yet? 10:26 < delinquentme> truly i feel like an asshole asking about it but I really could use this 10:26 <@fenn> make your own cutter 10:26 < delinquentme> also hella could use someone who knows microfluidic design 10:26 < delinquentme> as designing a new machine for every damn process that needs to happen in a biolab seems 10:26 < delinquentme> non-scalable 10:27 < delinquentme> it just seems like a kludgy way to go about it if it can be done in MF 10:27 < delinquentme> so then its just kind of abandoned? 10:27 < delinquentme> I mean kanz is like "talk to fenn" nathan is like "talk to fenn" 10:27 < delinquentme> you're like " talk to carl " 10:27 < delinquentme> =/ 10:28 <@fenn> my cad tools suck. design is basically as done as it's going to get without actually trying to build the thing. i don't know why everyone thinks engineering is supposed to be all perfect before you do anything 10:28 <@fenn> isn't there some whitepaper titled "waterfall design considered harmful" i can point to? 10:29 < delinquentme> I mean aren't all methods like that permutations of " Do shit " 10:29 < delinquentme> SCRUM XP wtaerfall whatever you wanna market the shit as 10:30 < delinquentme> so what about the project has left you less than enamored? 10:30 < delinquentme> and yes ideally everything is on open source tools 10:30 <@fenn> just lack of momentum, and i never really cared about microfluidics anyway 10:30 < delinquentme> however when is engineering ideal? 10:30 < delinquentme> I mean the barriers to contribution on using solidworks is like $200 10:31 < delinquentme> thats substantially less than the cost of a piece of hardware 10:31 < delinquentme> ( to do this ) 10:31 <@fenn> well, it doesn't work on my computer 10:31 <@fenn> anyway, it's not an excuse 10:31 < delinquentme> oh... no windows? 10:31 <@fenn> there are a zillion cad packages out there 10:31 < delinquentme> but nah you guys did shit with what you had so like its certainly prgress 10:32 < delinquentme> progress 10:32 < delinquentme> what about the electrical rigging for the laser 10:32 < delinquentme> you were working on the stage no? 10:32 <@fenn> i havent thought about the laser at all 10:33 < delinquentme> yeah the stage I can see being kinda boring 10:33 <@fenn> "The first formal description of the waterfall model ... presented this model as an example of a flawed, non-working model." 10:33 < delinquentme> did you have hand sketches ? or like something that someone could work from? 10:33 <@fenn> i dont remember 10:33 < delinquentme> im lost on the waterfall mentions 10:34 < delinquentme> ( ive pawned it off as managerial BS ) 10:34 <@fenn> "progress is seen as flowing steadily downwards (like a waterfall) through the phases of Conception, Initiation, Analysis, Design, Construction, Testing, Production/Implementation and Maintenance." 10:34 < delinquentme> whats the command to run autotests in a /test dir for ruby? 10:34 < delinquentme> is it just test? 10:35 < delinquentme> lol 10:35 <@fenn> in essence, waterfall design is the opposite of hacking 10:35 < delinquentme> fenn, I mean that sounds like assholes talking to me 10:35 < delinquentme> no offense meant 10:35 < delinquentme> but its vacuous 10:35 <@fenn> no, test is a shell utility 10:37 < delinquentme> i got it ... its for bioruby 10:37 < delinquentme> who would have thought that they've got something this advanced: http://www.biogems.info/ 10:37 < delinquentme> like they're running continuous integration tests 10:37 < delinquentme> ... BIORUBY 10:38 < kanzure> figshare might be the thing your redditor wants. 10:38 < delinquentme> fenn do you program in ruby or python? 10:38 <@fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis 10:38 < delinquentme> kanzure, that or git came to mind as i was typing up the statement 10:38 < delinquentme> paralysis by analysis 10:38 < delinquentme> yar 10:38 < kanzure> nobody says the laser cutter was abandoned. and no i don't want to sell preorders to you. when were there going to be orders in the first place?? 10:40 < delinquentme> I mean if no ones actively working on it 10:40 < delinquentme> you're just being cocky saying " I wont let you preorder " 10:40 < delinquentme> amiright? 10:41 < kanzure> no 10:41 < delinquentme> So lets call apples apples 10:41 < kanzure> i am saying that there was never any preorders 10:41 < delinquentme> and that development is at a standstill 10:41 < kanzure> i just want a laser cutter, what the fuck does that have to do with preorders? 10:42 < delinquentme> what does getting the last word in have to do with progress on a project? 10:42 < delinquentme> O_o 10:42 < delinquentme> also whos the microfluidic designer 10:42 <@fenn> delinquentme: you sure throw a lot of stones 10:42 < delinquentme> I want this thing so I dont have to fucking desing liquid handlers 10:42 <@fenn> how's your own project going? 10:42 < delinquentme> sitting and rotting 10:43 <@fenn> great, so *kick* 10:43 < delinquentme> well I appreciate that 10:43 < kanzure> i think we just need to order parts 10:43 < kanzure> i wouldn't call that a standstill? 10:43 < delinquentme> but as it goes ... I'd love to have what you guys are building 10:43 < kanzure> delinquentme: you'll have to build your own 10:43 <@fenn> tbh i think a regular laser cutter would do just fine 10:43 < delinquentme> bc I think we can agree that my desktop beast is substantially more complex than a chip 10:43 < kanzure> nate and i have tested it 10:44 < kanzure> nate was better at getting more specific measurements about how much it was failing 10:44 < kanzure> i think he even had micrographs of how terrible it was 10:44 <@fenn> "it" refers to what? 10:44 < delinquentme> it = LH002 the liquid handler that currently would cost about 15g 10:44 < kanzure> standard off-the-shelf laser cutter cutting pdms 10:45 < delinquentme> oh nmnm 10:45 < kanzure> wtf why does your liquid handler cost $15,000? 10:45 < delinquentme> i've got the part list man 10:45 < delinquentme> thats what it costs 10:45 < kanzure> maybe your part list sucks 10:45 <@fenn> yeah that's a bit extreme 10:45 < delinquentme> maybe 10:45 < delinquentme> there are a few encoders I could chop out 10:45 < delinquentme> and a few stepper I could downgrade 10:45 * fenn sighs 10:45 < delinquentme> but really the design needs to look more like a reprap 10:45 <@fenn> just use a reprap ffs 10:45 < delinquentme> ffs? 10:46 < delinquentme> oh lol 10:48 <@fenn> "people with OCD have unwanted thoughts, while people with OCPD believe that their thoughts are correct." but what if they are correct? 10:48 <@fenn> it's not my fault the world is broken 10:48 < delinquentme> ? 10:49 < kanzure> fenn: the cleanliness/germs OCD people seem to also be somewhat correct (although they seem to misjudge what efforts they should focus on) 10:49 <@fenn> no, germ theory is bullshit 10:49 < kanzure> i mean, they are correct that contamination is possible, but their estimation of the likelihood is out of whack 10:49 <@fenn> OCD was linked from the analysis paralysis article 10:49 < kanzure> i don't think "buy a list of things" is any sort of paralysis 10:50 <@fenn> so order some stuff 10:50 < kanzure> what about the other junk you wanted? 10:50 < kanzure> the other somewhat-unspecified junk 10:50 <@fenn> it's probably a bad time for me to be making actual decisions 10:51 < kanzure> do you even have a pics laying around and shit? 10:51 <@fenn> eh? 10:51 < kanzure> and/or ways to make use of them 10:51 <@fenn> microcontrollers? 10:52 <@fenn> you mean this list? http://fennetic.net/irc/cyberfenn/wearable_wishlist.html 10:52 <@fenn> all the stuff labeled "fabrication" 10:53 < kanzure> do you have a current inventory list that i can compare against -_- 10:53 <@fenn> hm. turns out good screwdrivers cost more than #3 10:54 <@fenn> kanzure: today i found that i had made 3 identical basil spice jars 10:54 < kanzure> intentionally? 10:54 <@fenn> somehow they had all disappeared into the chaos cloud and randomly reappeared at once 10:55 <@fenn> actually 4 10:55 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:55 <@fenn> anyway, i am tired. i think i'm going to retire to some third world country where people will leave me alone 10:55 <@fenn> there's no way any sort of organized system is going to remain intact at langton 10:56 <@fenn> it's just not going to happen 10:56 < kanzure> i would think the benefits of living at langton outweigh the benefits of living in bangkok? 10:56 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:58 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:58 < kanzure> i found this nice place in mountain view next to john smart going for $1300/mo 11:00 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:00 < kanzure> are you still interested in building the wearable setup? 11:00 <@fenn> why do you ask? 11:01 <@fenn> (why am i talking to people? i'm not even awake) 11:01 < chido> fenn: they are not very popular, ing clocks 11:01 < chido> fenn: and honestly, it seemed to me quite organized at Langton, at least compared to our hackerspace, and people don't even live there 11:02 <@fenn> kanzure: i beat myself up over not having a wearable every time i do my dumb-job and i'm sitting in a dark room so i can see the screen 11:03 <@fenn> thinking "why am i here and not at the beach" 11:03 <@fenn> chido: you didnt see the tool room 11:03 <@fenn> anyway it's a constant war. i'm winning in the kitchen but at the expense of the rest of my life 11:05 < chido> fenn: oh so the remarkably clean kitchen is your achievement? I salute you 11:05 < chido> our kitchen is more biohazardous than my lab 11:05 < chido> actually my lab is probably the cleanest place in the whole space 11:06 * fenn mumbles about metastable equilibria 11:09 <@fenn> jesus christ, OCPD is based on freudian theories 11:10 <@fenn> is there a version of the DSM based on, you know, science? 11:12 < chido> fenn: out of sheer curiosity, did you look at my comic only or at something else too? 11:15 <@fenn> i was wondering what an "ing clock" was so i googled it, only to get more things you had done (for example the youtube video and comics on senseis.xmp.net) 11:16 <@fenn> i dont know if i answered your question 11:17 <@fenn> delinquentme randomly pm's me asking why i havent finished the laser cutter 11:17 <@fenn> but lately i haven't been doing much of anything productive 11:17 < delinquentme> i know the feeling 11:17 <@fenn> i watched the whole "gantz" series in one go 11:17 -!- Juul [~Juul@171.66.166.29] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:18 <@fenn> now my circadian clock is all fucked, but i guess that was inevitable 11:18 < delinquentme> im dog sitting 11:18 < jrayhawk> i don't think i have any nine terabyte arrays 11:18 < delinquentme> lol psuedo constructive 11:18 <@fenn> i've been reading a lot about magnesium metabolism, but nobody else seems to think it's interesting 11:19 < jrayhawk> i like reading things about nutrition 11:19 <@fenn> mg++ 11:19 <@fenn> why dont we have a karma bot 11:19 < jrayhawk> "Markam, the 83-year-old San Diego resident, also takes supplements containing fish oil, red yeast, and glucosamine. He doesn't think his genes are anything special" hahaha 11:19 < superkuh> All divalent cations are interesting in biology. 11:20 <@fenn> 83 isnt that old 11:20 < jrayhawk> i like that the guy who does basic biological maintenance is treated like some sort of crazy outlier by everyone but himself 11:20 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i would be happy to fund a terabyte array 11:20 < kanzure> i'd be ok with a karma bot 11:20 * fenn kicks gnusha 11:20 < kanzure> or a bookmark bot 11:21 < jrayhawk> i would be resentful of a karma bot 11:21 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i somehow doubt you'd be ok torrenting from that tracker 11:21 < kanzure> actually, tpb isn't doing tracking anymore.. where are those torrents pointed at? 11:21 < jrayhawk> Yeah. I'm looking around for an alternative. 11:21 <@fenn> torrents dont need trackers anymore? (i'm fuzzy on this) 11:22 < jrayhawk> tr=http%3a//denis.stalker.h3q.com%3a6969/announce 11:22 < jrayhawk> but yes, magnet links are magic 11:23 <@fenn> they're magical but they start up much more slowly 11:23 < kanzure> i'm not sure why i haven't bugged thomasegi into releasing his schematics 11:23 <@fenn> which is a pain when you have 800+ torrents to download 11:24 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, what shematics? 11:24 < delinquentme> Is it specifically a bad practice to automatically install requisite libraries? 11:24 < kanzure> you (vaguely-)promised us things 11:24 < ThomasEgi> what things? 11:24 < kanzure> delinquentme: you should let the user know what you are installing and what the dependencies are, and ask for approval. 11:24 < kanzure> delinquentme: just use install scripts 11:24 < ThomasEgi> the circuit for the electroporation? 11:24 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: yes i think that was one of them? 11:24 < delinquentme> I mean if you're running a program and you want it to function ... wouldn't you just say " well if they want to run something ... they need the libs involved to run it .. so just install it" 11:24 < delinquentme> Ok so ask for approval .. that works 11:25 < kanzure> delinquentme: look up debian packages or eggs or cpan or something. 11:25 < kanzure> don't roll your own packaging system -_- 11:25 < delinquentme> nah this is for a ruby gem 11:25 <@fenn> gem is a package manager 11:25 < delinquentme> its requiring libxml-ruby 11:25 < kanzure> yeah, gem asks those things iirc 11:25 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, the driver stages are on my ftp since february 11:25 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: oops. i seem to have forgotten that :( link again? 11:25 < ThomasEgi> same with the constant current source for tDCS 11:25 < delinquentme> but it just fails with an assert where I think dling and installing would be more useful 11:26 < kanzure> no sometimes you don't have "full" dependencies 11:26 < kanzure> like you have some things that only work with a dependency 11:26 < kanzure> however, ruby gem maintainers are notoriously varied and yours might just be an idiot/jerk 11:26 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/analog-frontent-dna-transfer.png it is just the analog frontend for constant-current pulses 11:27 < kanzure> yeah i don't remember this url. don't think you've shared it before. 11:27 < ThomasEgi> i think i mentioned that you need to tell me if you need any more detailed or complete shematics 11:27 < delinquentme> Is installing a new package via an autotest script a bad practice? 11:27 <@fenn> whee kicad 11:27 < kanzure> delinquentme: yes 11:27 < ThomasEgi> http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/controllable-cc-source.png 11:28 < ThomasEgi> the tDCS source is pretty much good to go. 11:28 < ThomasEgi> you could add the current limters from rdb's design 11:28 < kanzure> fenn: so why don't we use thomas for more things 11:28 < kanzure> wait, a png of a kicad file? 11:28 < ThomasEgi> just a screenshot 11:28 < delinquentme> kanzure, why though? So you're running autotests to ensure that everything is properly functioning before doing development with it 11:29 <@fenn> ThomasEgi: where's the directory listing? 11:29 < ThomasEgi> i slammed those things together within 5 minutes. i didn't bother to set up a project for it 11:29 < ThomasEgi> fenn, disabled by the provider 11:29 < kanzure> yeah, this doesn't work http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/ 11:29 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: would you like hosting on diyhpl.us? 11:29 < ThomasEgi> nope^ 11:29 < chido> fenn: I meant http://chid0ri.deviantart.com/ (which has stuff a bit different from the comic) 11:29 < kanzure> haha deviantart 11:29 < ThomasEgi> i have enough hosting space on a varienty of ftp's 11:29 <@fenn> chido: no i havent looked at that yet 11:29 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: yes but we can't find the files without you explicitly linking :( 11:29 < kanzure> i would have never known 11:30 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, i am pretty sure i linked it to the person who requested it. 11:30 < ThomasEgi> the day i was asked for it 11:30 < ThomasEgi> because it only took me a few minutes to draw and upload 11:30 < ThomasEgi> if you need a complete circuit, including power supplies and logic, you need to tell me. it is pretty much the analog part 11:31 < ThomasEgi> guess most people here can use an arduino 11:32 < ThomasEgi> as you can see, most values are missing from the parts,too. so back when i made it there apparently was no immediate need to build it from that shematic 11:32 < ThomasEgi> feel free to request :) 11:34 < kanzure> thermocycler, centrifuge, ultracentrifuge, spectrophotometer, spin coater 11:34 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-14-176-179.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:34 * kanzure is being a jerk 11:34 <@fenn> woah woah woah 11:34 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-14-176-179.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:34 <@fenn> i just want a battery charger 11:34 < kanzure> what type of battery? 11:35 <@fenn> li-ion, i want to be able to source and sink at the same voltage though 11:35 < ThomasEgi> fenn, steup/down + cccv charging 11:35 <@fenn> there are a number of things i dont understand, like how do you switch from "straight through" to battery power without causing some disruption 11:36 < ThomasEgi> fenn, add filter :) 11:36 <@fenn> are battery management IC's worth using? 11:36 < ThomasEgi> detect when the voltage before the filter drops, switch over to the battery 11:36 < ThomasEgi> fenn, depends 11:36 < ThomasEgi> if you want a long battery life and a reliable circuit. yes 11:37 < ThomasEgi> if your circuit is a charge-20-times-and-discharg led throwie, probably not worth it 11:37 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, those are mostly mechanical things. 11:37 <@fenn> so it's primarily adjusting the charge rate to maintain battery temperature? 11:37 < kanzure> making a plastic chunk to hold things isn't a big deal 11:38 <@fenn> heh 11:38 <@fenn> 99% of lab equipment is plastic crap to hold the magic crystal 11:38 <@fenn> the other 1% is low noise linear amplifiers 11:38 < ThomasEgi> hm. low noise amplifier.. that sounds more like a thing for me :) 11:39 <@fenn> yeah so EMG is another thing i want to ask about, maybe not now though 11:39 <@fenn> (electro myo graphy) 11:40 < ThomasEgi> hm. i currently am designing an microphone am that might qualify as EMG input stage 11:40 <@fenn> i know 11:40 < ThomasEgi> altho,, it is so freaking hyper sensitive that you can't use it at free air 11:40 <@fenn> something about kicking physics' ass 11:40 < ThomasEgi> indeed 11:40 < ThomasEgi> i pretty much hit the absolute lower limit of what's somehow possible 11:40 <@fenn> well, is it expensive? 11:41 < ThomasEgi> no 11:41 < ThomasEgi> surprisingly not. 11:41 < ThomasEgi> but it is darn sensitive 11:41 < ThomasEgi> might be too sensitive for EMG 11:41 <@fenn> add a resistor 11:41 < ThomasEgi> i mean. if you open a 5mm wide slit in the case you can forget your signal 11:41 <@fenn> huh? 11:41 < ThomasEgi> fenn, the resistor would screw the frequency response :D 11:41 < ThomasEgi> well i guess for EMG that's tollerable. 11:42 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:42 < ThomasEgi> as you are not bound to the 20pF input coupling 11:42 <@fenn> well i am just guessing in the dark 11:42 -!- Juul [~Juul@171.66.166.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:42 <@fenn> how can it be "too sensitive" 11:42 < ThomasEgi> fenn, got me a number of the signal voltage that's to be expected ? 11:42 < ThomasEgi> well.. 11:43 < ThomasEgi> if you have that amp on your desk, it detects when you move through the room. 11:43 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:43 <@fenn> i'm thinking like the 10x attenuator on your average bench scope 11:43 < ThomasEgi> not because of audio. but because of the electric fields you influence. 11:44 <@fenn> sounds perfect 11:44 < ThomasEgi> wait. that's emg, not eeg 11:44 < ThomasEgi> that means. the actual signal is withing the range of several millivolts? 11:45 <@fenn> um 11:45 < ThomasEgi> nevermind. then^ input noise figure of that amp is within the signle-digit nanovolt range 11:45 < ThomasEgi> emg should be a piece of cake then 11:46 <@fenn> also eog (detects eye movement because the eye is electrically charged) 11:47 < ThomasEgi> can't be that hard. bandwith of eeg and emg are very limited. thus noise usualy is no real problem 11:47 * fenn searches for quantitative values for voltages generated 11:48 < ThomasEgi> action potentials usualy are in the milivolt area. even if it is within microvolts. with a bandwith as low as a couple of hz you'll still get an excellent signal/noise ratio 11:49 <@fenn> EOG is 0.4-1.0 mV 11:49 <@fenn> probably less, since you can't stick the electrode right on the eye 11:49 < ThomasEgi> piece of cake then 11:50 <@fenn> http://www.bem.fi/book/28/28.htm some stuff on EOG 11:50 <@fenn> a distraction 11:50 < ThomasEgi> all you have to do is make sure to build the circuit properly, and even more important, build a good case / use well shielded cables 11:51 <@fenn> why can't i have the amp right next to the electrode? 11:51 < ThomasEgi> hm theoretically possible. 11:51 < ThomasEgi> but the amp also needs a power supply, and that needs to be very low noise, 11:51 <@fenn> conversely, how small can the amp circuit be? 11:51 < ThomasEgi> and it still needs to be shielded from the rest of the environment 11:51 <@fenn> smaller circuit = less shielding 11:52 < ThomasEgi> you always need to shield the same. just the case size differs 11:52 <@fenn> but it's less mass 11:52 < ThomasEgi> true. 11:52 <@fenn> also being smaller reduces the flux of any given circuit 11:53 <@fenn> the magnetic flux at least, not sure about capacitance 11:53 < ThomasEgi> if you have an external powersupply that is already pretty smooth and shielded, you might be able to squeeze the last power stabilisation and amp on a pcb which is a bit bigger than a coin 11:53 <@fenn> i think this is often done in EEG, called "active electrode" 11:53 < ThomasEgi> magnetic flux has almost no influence on most applications. unless you are working with inductors. 11:54 < ThomasEgi> those "active eletrodes" sounds more like active impedance converters. they don't amplify anything. 11:54 < ThomasEgi> just reduce the requirements for the attached cable 11:56 <@fenn> heh "They use a lithium cell in each electrode for power" 11:56 <@fenn> one way to get low noise power 11:57 < ThomasEgi> i wouldn't use those in a DIY project 11:57 < ThomasEgi> it requires you to have very low-voltage circuitry. 11:57 < ThomasEgi> which isn't commonly available for most people 11:57 <@fenn> 3V is too low? 11:57 <@fenn> 2 batteries is 6V 11:58 <@fenn> anyway, i find it unelegant 11:58 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:58 < ThomasEgi> for most amplifiers 5V is the absolute minimum operating voltage 11:59 < ThomasEgi> and the parts with 5V support are quite rare already 11:59 < ThomasEgi> starting it 9V you'll get a much bigger choice 11:59 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:00 <@fenn> a lot of this shielding could just be an aluminum block machined into shape 12:01 < ThomasEgi> anything. all it has to do is beeing well-conductive , and fully enclose the circuit 12:02 <@fenn> why do amplifiers need such high voltages? 12:03 < ThomasEgi> most do. not all 12:04 <@fenn> weird. i just remembered helping max hodack figure out op amps 12:04 < ThomasEgi> yeah. from the outside, opamps are just blackboxes 12:04 < ThomasEgi> but in the inside you usualy have a whole bunch of transistors doing a variety of things 12:05 < ThomasEgi> in some cases there are many transistors in series somewhere , they simply need a certain voltage to reach all their operating potential and bias currents 12:06 <@fenn> huh max hodak worked in a primate lab doing brain machine interface data analysis 12:07 < ThomasEgi> anyway. a few extra volts usualy help making everything easier 12:07 < ThomasEgi> especially stabelizing powersupply can profit from higher voltage 12:07 <@fenn> https://www.maxhodak.com/notes/2009/06/29/the-hard-problem-of-brain-machine-interfacing.html 12:07 < ThomasEgi> altho for the given frequency and amplitude range there are many exellent parts with superb power supply rejection available 12:08 < kanzure> "Decoding the signals isn’t the hard part: getting the signals captive is. Current recording technology, put simply, sucks. Really, really badly. Current implants only pick up around 4 cells per electrode, last an average of 3 years before being encapsulated in fibrous tissue by the brain (hypothesized to be an immune response) and rendered useless." 12:08 < kanzure> yep 12:08 < ThomasEgi> yeah but that's not an electrical problem 12:09 < kanzure> "Electrode technology is generally seen as a back room technician thing; at best, it’s something for application-agnostic biomedical engineers of more arcane subspecialities to publish is J. Neuroeng. or J. Neurosci. Meth. but that low-level tech-stuff just isn’t worth a Nature paper, clearly. This goes to the ‘best neuroscientist’ perception — decoding brain activity sounds hard. Not to discount decoding, it’s true that it is hard also 12:09 < ThomasEgi> but more a problem of getting the right electrode materials/geometry/size/count implanted 12:09 < kanzure> "A vendor makes the recording systems and headstages, which the scientist buys to understand the brain. This is a problem. We need to realize that the block is almost entirely the recording technology we have to play with. That’s the bottleneck. Until this is resolved, we won’t have full BMI." 12:10 < ThomasEgi> on the electrical end, recording those signals really is not that much of a task. wiring it up is. 12:10 < kanzure> his update is silly.. optogenetics has little to do with better recording technology 12:10 < ThomasEgi> that is the neurons to the input of the amp 12:10 <@fenn> yeah that was what anselm was working on (and gave up) 12:10 <@fenn> voltage dependent dyes 12:10 < kanzure> he gave up on optogenetics? 12:10 <@fenn> well, put on hold indefinitely 12:10 < kanzure> go on 12:11 < kanzure> i seem to recall him doing a few mouse lines with working optogenetic triggers 12:11 <@fenn> he thinks it will take too long to develop, given the current state of gene synthesis and the long turnaround time 12:11 < kanzure> to develop what? 12:11 <@fenn> voltage sensitive dyes 12:11 < kanzure> don't those already exist? 12:11 <@fenn> specifically, the kind you can express in neurons 12:12 <@fenn> i wish people would maintain their blogs 12:13 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/startup-science-2012/max-hodack.txt 12:13 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/fbi-diybio-2012/max-hodack-gene-synthesis.txt 12:14 <@fenn> adding robots helps 12:14 <@fenn> s/adding/integrating/ 12:14 < kanzure> yet another sequencing costs graph http://www.technologyreview.com/graphiti/427720/bases-to-bytes/ 12:15 < kanzure> huh they estimate 100k human genomes have been sequenced? 12:15 < kanzure> where's all this data.. i can hardly get 1000 human genomes off of s3 12:16 <@fenn> "privacy" 12:16 <@fenn> because defeating death comes in second place to "privacy" 12:16 < kanzure> if there's really some sort of valuable thing protected by privacy, then it should also be valuable enough to steal 12:17 < kanzure> so what sort of things could i steal or blackmail people with, if i know their genome 12:17 < kanzure> like.. i can adjust their health insurance rates? :handwaving: 12:17 <@fenn> you can spike their tea with normally harmless compounds 12:17 <@fenn> or see that they have a predisposition for being cranky 12:18 <@fenn> yeah, that's it. 12:18 <@fenn> man i'm so sick of entrepreneurs 12:18 < kanzure> we should go dig up graves of old, dead smart people and sequence their genomes before the dna degrades 12:19 <@fenn> we should make clones of existing smart people before they die 12:19 <@fenn> like me for instance :P 12:19 < kanzure> well i don't really mean "smart" but i just mean- surely there's something really useful in all these graves 12:20 < kanzure> unique protein mutants and shit 12:20 <@fenn> you can just do population genetics on ashkenazi jews 12:20 < kanzure> haha 12:20 <@fenn> what 12:20 <@fenn> it's a known fact their IQ is some percentage higher 12:20 < kanzure> yeah i know, 12:21 < kanzure> but you were also implying that they somehow have a representative sample of the other stuff i could get from graverobbing 12:21 <@fenn> feynman, einstein, von neumann, etc 12:21 <@fenn> well it's easier to get samples from a population than from specific people 12:21 <@fenn> also you get more data 12:22 < kanzure> i bet parents would pay to splice in some mozart into their little tikes 12:22 <@fenn> ah crap, sigmund freud 12:22 < kanzure> was mozart burried? 12:23 < kanzure> damn it do i have to make this grave map myself? 12:23 < kanzure> "Although Mozart is buried somewhere in Vienna's St. Marx cemetery, the exact location is unknown; the current monument and 'grave' are the results of an educated guess. " 12:23 < kanzure> damn it 12:23 < Dr_Patrick> nice 12:24 < Dr_Patrick> Yeah i think we should do away with 'breeding' and have it be more of a selective 'character creation' process 12:24 <@fenn> 'much awareness of "Ashkenazi Jews" as an ethnic group or category stems from the large number of genetic studies' 12:24 < kanzure> fenn: there used to be this really good article that outlined the particular mutations and their side effects in ashkenazi populations 12:24 < kanzure> tbh bringing up ashkenazis is almost cliche now heh 12:24 <@fenn> so there you go, already done. 12:25 -!- kvltist [~Kvltist@p5B33F6DC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:25 < kanzure> 2009-06-06.log:13:43 < kanzure> ashkenazi papers that I was talking about: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/ashkenazi/ 12:25 < kanzure> 2011-05-12.log:08:01 < kanzure> ashkenazi 23andme data https://rapidshare.com/files/961006780/ASHK.tar.gz 12:26 < kanzure> ~/papers/ashkenazi is empty. hrm. 12:26 <@fenn> 23andme data? 12:26 <@fenn> so, uh, you have any studies on correlation between genetics and IQ? 12:27 <@fenn> genetics is great and all but it's useless unless there's correlated data 12:27 < kanzure> well, no. i'm really confused about this folder being empty. 12:27 < kanzure> maybe it's on my backups. 12:27 < kanzure> here is where i found ASHK.tar.gz (which, i don't have a copy of, wtf) 12:27 < kanzure> http://www.euvolution.com/futurist-transhuman-news-blog/astronomy/ashkenazi-23andme-v3-genotype-for-the-taking-gene-expression.php 12:27 < Dr_Patrick> prolly al quaida 12:27 < kanzure> also this thing: 12:27 < kanzure> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlJjaPERgZNadDh1TXowUnR4TFN3MmhEWl9EbXZQd0E&authkey=CM_q04kO&hl=en&authkey=CM_q04kO#gid=0 12:28 < kanzure> seems to be a list of a few public domain datasets 12:28 < kanzure> huh kenneth reitz is on that list (heroku/python-requests) 12:29 < kanzure> bastian greshake? isn't that gedankenstuecke 12:29 < kanzure> dan bolser (faceface).. damn, ##hplusroadmap represent 12:30 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:30 <@fenn> ok so i make 23andme data public, big deal 12:30 <@fenn> what do you do with it? 12:31 < Dr_Patrick> GATTACA 12:31 < kanzure> Dr_Patrick: you're annoying me 12:31 -!- Dr_Patrick was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by fenn [Dr_Patrick] 12:31 < chido> oooh so it really does happen 12:31 < kanzure> he's not a very coherent person 12:32 < kanzure> i'm mostly confused by him and he doesn't seem to provide any substance 12:32 <@fenn> some people feel rewarded by making noise 12:32 * chido will sit in the corner and be really quiet 12:32 -!- |87ack13| [4b690e3f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.105.14.63] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:32 < kanzure> chido: haha it's not that bad 12:32 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:33 < chido> I'm pretty insubstantial myself :) 12:33 < kanzure> chido: well for one, you seem to be able to hold a conversation 12:33 < kanzure> and this other guy doesn't seem to be able to do even that 12:33 <@fenn> |87ack13|: please, just make an intelligent contribution, 12:34 < |87ack13|> OK! 12:34 <@fenn> resist the impulse to shout out whatever comes to mind 12:35 < kanzure> fenn: so anyway, yes, the 23andme data isn't always that helpful except when you happen to have an obviously-useful protein mutant or something 12:36 <@fenn> mikolaj habryn, i know, uh, them. 12:36 < kanzure> although, i think they only sample SNPs that have been previously studied? erm, that can't be right 12:36 <@fenn> sounds right 12:36 < chido> so can their database be accessed or not? I think I missed that part 12:36 <@fenn> 23andme data is private 12:36 < chido> I just discovered a bit of news that they patented something 12:36 <@fenn> the google doc is the list of publically released 23andme data 12:37 < kanzure> they probably do internal studies on their datasets 12:37 <@fenn> probably a diagnostic predictor 12:37 <@fenn> "you are more likely to get x disease" 12:37 < kanzure> i think that google doc is old- there are larger lists floating around somewhere iirc 12:37 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:38 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:38 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:39 < kanzure> :( why don't i have ASHK.tar.gz 12:39 < kanzure> /home/bryan/public_html/irc/23andme/ASHK.tar.gz 12:39 < kanzure> go me! 12:39 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/23andme/ASHK.tar.gz 12:40 <@fenn> it took that long to run locate? 12:40 <@fenn> btw have i mentioned tracker-search? it's not bad 12:40 < kanzure> well, i was only looking locally 12:40 <@fenn> we need a librarian 12:40 < kanzure> isn't that you >:| 12:41 <@fenn> no i'm too busy doing dishes 12:41 < kanzure> i'm too busy scraping the papers 12:41 < kanzure> ... or something 12:42 < kanzure> so ASHK.bim looks like this: 12:42 < kanzure> 1 rs4477212 0 72017 0 A 12:42 < kanzure> 1 rs3094315 0 742429 0 A 12:42 < kanzure> 1 rs3131972 0 742584 0 G 12:42 < kanzure> 1 rs12124819 0 766409 0 A 12:42 < kanzure> blah 12:43 < kanzure> 1 rs4477212 0 72017 0 A 12:43 < kanzure> 1 rs3094315 0 742429 0 A 12:43 < kanzure> 1 rs3131972 0 742584 0 G 12:43 < kanzure> so is this just a single person? i don't understand 12:46 < ThomasEgi> wow.. one second to the next. thunder, very heavy rainfall. storm. 12:46 < ThomasEgi> 5 minutes later.. everything is over 12:49 <@fenn> chido: your character studies are awesome 12:49 <@fenn> there's definitely a diybio comic in here somewhere 12:50 < chido> fenn: not sure what you are referring to but thank you! 12:51 <@fenn> i'm sorta randomly clicking around, right now i'm looking at http://chid0ri.deviantart.com/art/concepts-III-192138840 12:51 < chido> fenn: I thought about working on my comic before getting into the whole biology thing, but I decided to rather do something myself than to make up people who do it 12:51 < chido> if I fail, I still can go back to my concept :) 12:51 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:55 < kanzure> chido: fail what? fail to do things? 12:55 < chido> kanzure: fail to educate myself enough to do things, and do things... 12:59 <@fenn> 1) define the problem 2) solve the problem 13:00 < kanzure> 1) pokemon 2) catch them all? 13:00 < delinquentme> anyone in here know about travisci? 13:04 -!- |87ack13| is now known as mikehuntstinks 13:05 < mikehuntstinks> someone in another chan asked me to change my name 13:10 -!- splicer [~ubuntu@c83-255-190-140.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:13 -!- splicer [~ubuntu@c83-255-190-140.bredband.comhem.se] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:13 < delinquentme> Sooo IDK if anyone wants to fly to pittsburgh for the weekend 13:13 < delinquentme> but nate is here apparently and the reddit global meetup is gonna be at a bar I used to frequent 13:14 < delinquentme> and i've got a few bio chicks who need some sense talked into 13:14 < delinquentme> one w a neuro degree who doing air traffic control instead of gen AI 13:14 * AlonzoTG wants biomed degree. 13:15 < AlonzoTG> but can barely afford to replace his glasses which broke yesterday. =\ 13:15 -!- mikehuntstinks is now known as |87ack13| 13:17 <@fenn> obligatory skynet reference 13:18 -!- |87ack13| is now known as StStephen 13:18 < StStephen> skip the degrees, and go straight to the diy stuff 13:19 < StStephen> you can get tutorials and course ware online for free 13:19 < AlonzoTG> In theory, that's a marvelous idea. 13:19 < AlonzoTG> But leaves open how to get income... 13:19 < AlonzoTG> =\ 13:19 < AlonzoTG> I'm writing a paper to respond to another paper entitled "coalescing minds". 13:21 < StStephen> youll end up working at mcdonalds 13:22 < AlonzoTG> =\ 13:23 < AlonzoTG> you can't fund your rent much less research off that kind of wage. 13:38 < delinquentme> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZJLIgK26dw&feature=youtu.be 13:38 < kanzure> delinquentme: what is it? 13:38 < delinquentme> aubreys reponses to AMAs 13:38 < delinquentme> or the AMA 13:38 < delinquentme> its pretty long though 13:39 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.75.178] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:42 <@fenn> oyasumi 14:01 -!- Juul [~Juul@171.66.168.21] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:11 -!- qnm [~qnm@2001:44b8:3110:f300:208:9bff:fec0:179a] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:13 -!- qnm [~qnm@2001:44b8:3110:f300:208:9bff:fec0:179a] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:21 -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.75.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22 -!- neuro-sys [~neuro@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974] has quit [Quit: brb] 14:25 -!- qnm [~qnm@2001:44b8:3110:f300:208:9bff:fec0:179a] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:28 -!- qnm [~qnm@2001:44b8:3110:f300:208:9bff:fec0:179a] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:40 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:41 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:54 < gedankenstuecke> kanzure: yep, that's me 14:56 < kanzure> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4144061 14:56 < kanzure> "to attend the weekly behavioral genetics seminar ("journal club") at my alma mater university each week during the school year, and from the seminar I have learned about professional articles that dispel common misconceptions about human behavioral genetics. 14:56 < kanzure> Turkheimer, E. (2012). Genome wide association studies of behavior are social science. In K. S. Plaisance & T.A.C. Reydon (Eds.) Philosophy of Behavioral Biology (pp. 43-64). New York, NY: Springer." 14:56 < kanzure> http://people.virginia.edu/~ent3c/papers2/Turkheimer%20GWAS%20EWAS%20Final.pdf 14:56 < kanzure> hey, look! someone has my same terrible directory structure! 14:56 < kanzure> oh god what have i done 14:56 < kanzure> oh their his own papers. 14:57 < gedankenstuecke> kanzure: and 23andme tests a bunch of snps, so they are more or less evenly spaced along the whole genome 15:01 < kanzure> vi in a browser http://mit.edu/~georgiou/www/vi/ (with dropbox? what?) 15:02 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:02 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:22 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:33 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:36 < kanzure> hrm why is nanoengineer on pinterest? http://pinterest.com/source/nanoengineer-1.com/ 15:41 < brownies> kanzure: the other day on HN someone was hating on Kalman filters -_- 15:41 < brownies> "I don't like Kalman filters, because they're too complicated and require a PhD in mathematics to understand! So instead I wrote my own elegant replacement!" 15:43 < brownies> ...sorry, just needed to vent about that somewhere. 16:00 -!- neuro-sys [~neuro@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:06 < delinquentme> brownies, did you blast them back? 16:07 < delinquentme> might have helped them more there than here.... 16:07 < brownies> delinquentme: there's a threshold of ... "cleverness" ... after which i prefer to just not engage 16:08 < delinquentme> should I nod 16:08 < delinquentme> or give you my opinion? 16:08 < brownies> besides, this is crystal clear! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalman_filter 16:08 < brownies> delinquentme: opinion, sure 16:09 < delinquentme> Anyone who is slightly intelligent will have people who are less intelligent 16:09 < delinquentme> welcome to the number of scientists i blasted for their shitty excuses on " I dont have time to make it simpler " 16:09 < delinquentme> Would you like to see a world where nanotech is talked about more than kim kardashian? 16:09 < delinquentme> I would 16:09 < delinquentme> know how we make that world happen? 16:09 < delinquentme> simplify. 16:10 < brownies> delinquentme: i agree, but what i tend to disengage on is more "closed-mindedness to other ideas" rather than "this person simply doesn't know other ideas" 16:10 < brownies> hm, you make a fair point, though. 16:10 < delinquentme> but as the educated ones 16:10 < delinquentme> ( and correct me if im wrong here ) 16:10 < delinquentme> it is US 16:10 < delinquentme> who are the best equipped for simplification 16:10 < delinquentme> not only that ... but its a solid mental excercise ... especially for those interested in startups 16:11 < delinquentme> does that dude with a million dollars have any more an inclination to know the minutiae of this subject than someone not as intelligent as myself 16:11 < delinquentme> maybs. 16:12 < delinquentme> Not to mention I cant begin to number the people in here who have helped me learn 16:12 < brownies> but there has to be some sort of filter, right? 16:12 < brownies> and there it is: you came here *wanting* to learn 16:13 < delinquentme> true 16:13 < delinquentme> I mean by no means is this a grand unified theory 16:13 < delinquentme> but if I want to make an impact in the hopes that one day I can open a hot blonde at the bar with " string theory or XYZ " 16:13 < delinquentme> its a beginning 16:13 < delinquentme> but then again filters ... and someones going to say "wtf hot blonde' 16:14 < kanzure> you forgot to specify which gender 16:15 < yashgaroth> if you're getting into science to pick up women (or men)... 16:16 < yashgaroth> don't, is what I'm saying 16:16 < delinquentme> yashgaroth, im an optimist 16:16 < delinquentme> but I know what you're saying 16:16 < delinquentme> brownies, have you talked to the PCR girl a all? 16:16 < delinquentme> is she making any progress? 16:16 < kanzure> "the pcr girl" ?? 16:17 < kanzure> are you talking about stacey kuznetsov? you should just call her stacey 16:17 < brownies> sorry, no, but i should 16:17 * brownies is drowning in email 16:34 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14 -!- Juul [~Juul@171.66.168.21] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:17 -!- Juul [~Juul@171.66.168.21] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:31 * Jenda` got some recordings from the event and has absolutely no idea what to do with then 17:31 < Jenda`> http://mirror.vpsfree.cz/videohrach/video/diybio12/ 17:31 < Jenda`> It is hard to understand for me as a non-native speaker. 17:32 < yashgaroth> are those from chido's audio recorder? 17:32 < Jenda`> Yes. You just uncovered a great conspiracy. 17:32 < Jenda`> The quality is really bad :( 17:33 < yashgaroth> bryan was looking into getting all the powerpoint slides from the presenters, and he does have the text transcriptions, so... 17:35 < Jenda`> Yes, I haven't assumed that someone would be so crazy to write down everything :) 17:35 < yashgaroth> haha, well she does have the recording of his talk, which is good since he naturally doesn't have that transcript 17:38 -!- azonenberg [~azonenber@2001:470:888b:2:206:70ff:fe01:46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40 -!- azonenberg [~azonenber@2001:470:888b:2:206:70ff:fe01:46] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:46 < JayDugger> For those with money, a second-hand 3d printer (Prusa, working, I think) sells on eBay right now. (http://r.ebay.com/MUJJES) 17:49 < kanzure> yeah i had a very hard time transcribing my own speech 17:50 < kanzure> too busy saying things i guess 17:50 < kanzure> Jenda`: git clone git://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki.git 17:50 < yashgaroth> any news on getting people's slides? 17:50 < kanzure> if you make any corrections in transcripts/fbi-diybio-2012/ i'd appreciate the changes.. i know i got things wrong in a few places ("is not" => "is") 17:50 < kanzure> yashgaroth: it's the federal government.. these things take quite a while 17:51 < yashgaroth> well you at least filed the paperwork right? 17:51 < kanzure> yes? 17:51 < yashgaroth> okay good, we should have the slides in 12-18 months then 17:53 < kanzure> i regret this ps3 thing i bought 17:53 < kanzure> i see 10 transactions from "PLAYSTATION NETWORK" on my debit card all for $1.00 17:54 -!- Juul [~Juul@171.66.168.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:54 < yashgaroth> it's probing...testing for weaknesses 17:55 -!- Moktart [~Mokalypso@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:23 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:32 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:57 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:27 -!- Tukotih [~Tukotih@81-231-85-111-no39.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:35 -!- Burninate [~ass@pool-173-66-18-189.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:35 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-14-176-179.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:35 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-14-176-179.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:54 -!- StStephen is now known as illuminism 19:58 -!- Jora [~Jora@24-240-41-105.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:58 -!- Jora [~Jora@24-240-41-105.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:58 -!- Jora [~Jora@unaffiliated/jora] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:25 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31 -!- illuminism is now known as umbrella 20:31 -!- umbrella is now known as |um87311a| 20:32 -!- |um87311a| is now known as uma31178 20:35 -!- uma31178 is now known as |VIPPER| 20:39 -!- chevbird [~chevbird@209-6-62-26.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:45 -!- Jora [~Jora@unaffiliated/jora] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:14 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-24-63-135-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:40 < kanzure> when i use gephi it's never like this 21:40 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-14-176-179.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40 < kanzure> http://vimeo.com/9726202 21:40 < kanzure> maybe playing the weird music will help 21:40 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-14-176-179.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:44 < kanzure> it's more like "lots of wonderful java errors and ui issues, with only a lame 'export to static image' feature" 21:45 < kanzure> and the video shows some 3d environment for selecting nodes and manipulating graphs 21:50 < |VIPPER|> kanzure: i missed if you said you'd used maltego or not 21:50 < |VIPPER|> node related infografic data mining 21:51 -!- qnm [~qnm@2001:44b8:3110:f300:208:9bff:fec0:179a] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:54 -!- qnm [~qnm@2001:44b8:3110:f300:208:9bff:fec0:179a] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:55 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:59 -!- Mokbortolan_1 [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:01 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:01 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:02 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:15 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:41 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@26.55.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:58 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@26.55.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] --- Log closed Fri Jun 22 00:00:47 2012