--- Log opened Tue Jul 17 00:00:11 2012
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00:22 < Mokbortolan_> would anybody mind teaching me how to read my multimeter?
00:23 < Mokbortolan_> it's the analog kind
00:23 < Mokbortolan_> are the numbers on the dial multipliers?
00:26 < Mokbortolan_> n/m, figured it out
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03:41 < Utopiah> https://www.coursera.org/course/drugsandbrain
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05:09 < rdb> Utopiah, cool, thanks for link
05:09 < Utopiah> np
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08:11 < kanzure> http://www.danielwillingham.com/1/post/2012/05/the-latest-on-intelligence.html
08:11 < kanzure> heh what? "Almost no genetic polymorphisms have been discovered that are consistently associated with variation of IQ in the normal range."
08:11 < kanzure> http://scottbarrykaufman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Nisbett-et-al.-2012.pdf
08:18 < kanzure> ParahSailin__: did you look at the ben wpan thing from qi hardware?
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10:08 < kanzure> http://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/theprometheancell/diybio_first_impressions
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11:03 < AdrianG_> hy guiz
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11:05 < kanzure> for x in `find . \( -name url.txt -o -name urls.txt \) -print`; do cat "$x"; done | grep http | wc -l
11:05 < kanzure> 10132
11:06 < kanzure> this is how i keep track of where i download all the things.
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11:14 < AdrianG> kanzure when do you sleep
11:14 < AdrianG> are you ever offline
11:15 < kanzure> well, i'm certainly never offline, but that is independent of my sleep
11:15 < kanzure> i usually sleep between 1am and 6am
11:16 < AdrianG> 5 hrs?
11:16 < kanzure> it varies
11:17 < Sanky|test> do you wake naturally or do you use alarms?
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11:18 < kanzure> that also varies, i wake naturally at 7 hours but i do tend to set alarms for <7 hours
11:18 < Sanqui> I see.
11:19 < kanzure> why are my sleeping habits of sudden interest?
11:19 < Sanqui> I jumped at it since it was mentioned.
11:19 < kanzure> if you are planning to rob me please rob me between the hours of 4pm and 6pm M-F and 3pm on Saturdays (Sundays aren't OK)
11:20 < Sanqui> I'll try to keep it in mind
11:21 < Lemminkainen_> Sanqui: gonna steal kanzure 's potato
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11:31 < nmz787> has anyone here actually read that Biopunk book?
11:32 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/biopunk.pdf
11:32 < kanzure> i've flipped through it, but no. my grandma has, does that count?
11:33 < nmz787> have you conversed with her about it?
11:33 < kanzure> hmm, why do you ask?
11:34 < nmz787> read that nature post you mentioned earlier
11:34 < kanzure> did marcus email you when he was writing the book?
11:34 < nmz787> nope
11:34 < kanzure> he sent out emails to pretty much everyone in the book
11:34 < kanzure> asking for permission to include certain things, or to look over certain passages, things like that..
11:35 < nmz787> hmm
11:35 < nmz787> I don't know why Meredith Patterson is mentioned and quoted so much, seems like openPCR accomplished more than she did
11:36 < nmz787> at one point as I remember she was using the wrong kind of promoters or something, which is an easy google scholar search away
11:36 < kanzure> openpcr was after the book was published
11:37 < kanzure> meredith got a lot of press attention because she was the only alternative to "DIYbio" which had some issues with too-much-connections-to-igem or something
11:38 < kanzure> the other reason is because marcus was the one who originally did the story on meredith on AP
11:39 < kanzure> which sorta started the media spiral death trap
11:39 < nmz787> alternative to DIYbio?
11:39 < nmz787> oh
11:39 < kanzure> well i mean, alternative person to focus on
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11:39 < kanzure> remember, mac used to be running some part of igem (i forget which part), and jason was always a part of some harvard lab
11:39 < kanzure> so by those standards, meredith was significantly more amateur :P
11:41 < nmz787> sure
11:42  * nsh wonders about superkuh's quitline
11:42 < kanzure> nmz787: http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ/News
11:43 < kanzure> nmz787: he was fascinated by models of neuron firing for a while
11:44 < kanzure> oops, i meant nsh
11:44 < nsh> ah, thanks
11:44 < nsh> is that an accepted statement of fact then? or conjectural?
11:44 < kanzure> http://superkuh.com/library/Neuroscience/Lipid%20Membrane/
11:45 < kanzure> he lost his files recently in an fbi raid, so it seems that some of the propagating-density-stuff is presently missing
11:45 < nsh> "This FAQ for DIYbio is actively maintained by it's editors"  no apostrophe required
11:45 < nsh> heh, fbi raid?
11:45 < kanzure> nsh: http://superkuh.com/library/Neuroscience/Lipid%20Membrane/Rapid%20mechanical%20and%20thermal%20changes%20in%20the%20garfish%20olfactory%20nerve%20associated%20with%20propagated%20impulse_%20Tasaki%20I_%20Kusano%20K_%20Byrne%20PM_%201989.pdf
11:46 < kanzure> nsh: i didn't write that line (that was jonathan cline)
11:46 < kanzure> and it's not actually 'actively' maintained :P i don't think he's edited it in a year.
11:46  * nsh nods - just wasn't sure i could be bothered to create a login to edit it 
11:46 < nsh> okay
11:46 < kanzure> http://superkuh.com/library/Neuroscience/Lipid%20Membrane/Phase%20transition%20in%20membrane%20with%20reference%20to%20nerve%20excitation_%20Kobatake%20Y_%20Tasaki%20I_%20Watanabe%20A_%20advbiophys_1971.pdf
11:46 < nsh> thanks and thanks
11:46 < kanzure> oh, yeah, creating logins on openwetware is painful and stupid
11:47 < kanzure> http://superkuh.com/library/Neuroscience/Lipid%20Membrane/Volume%20expansion%20of%20nonmyelinated%20nerve%20fibers%20during%20impulse%20conduction_%20Tasaki%20I_%20Byrne%20PM_%201990.pdf
11:47 < kanzure> well, anyway, i expect he would be better at picking out a good article
11:48  * nsh nods
11:48 < AdrianG> ok
11:48 < AdrianG> what are the most potent nootropics
11:49 < kanzure> well, there are many drugs that modulate the brain
11:49 < kanzure> some just make people feel good, which isn't a bad thing
11:50 < kanzure> if you want an unpopular answer to your question, i would say that a minimum nootropic is one that has some measurable result like, making you better at making a better nootropic, which almost none do
11:50 < nsh> tell that to shulgin
11:50 < nmz787> nsh: what is that quitline you're talking about?
11:50 < nmz787> kanzure: fbi raid?
11:50 < kanzure> that's just shulgin being shulgin
11:50 < nsh> superkuh has quit (Quit: the neuronal action potential is an electrical manipulation of reversible abrupt phase changes in the lipid bilayer)
11:51 < kanzure> nmz787: he doesn't want to talk about the raid
11:51 < nsh> understandably
11:51 < nmz787> nsh: It'd be cool to meet Shulgin, but I think he's too old these days to entertain many folks
11:51 < kanzure> too old? that's the best kind of old
11:51 < AdrianG> kanzure:  if it makes me feel good its good enough for me
11:51 < kanzure> AdrianG: then why not just use heroin
11:51 < AdrianG> unsustainable
11:51 < AdrianG> plus a messy administration path
11:52 < kanzure> ok. so it sounds like you don't actually want nootropics though?
11:52 < nsh> AdrianG, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25I-NBOMe
11:52 < nmz787> nsh: i thought you meant like a toll-free phone number, e.g. smoking quitline
11:52 < AdrianG> nah nootropics are good
11:52 < AdrianG> nsh: what is it
11:52 < AdrianG> a psychedelic?
11:52 < nsh> yes
11:52 < kanzure> like, what if the drug made you into a super-working transhumanist, but made you fucking miserable?
11:52 < nsh> like university?
11:52 < AdrianG> nsh: and whats so good about it
11:52 < AdrianG> kanzure: you mean like meth?
11:53 < kanzure> i haven't met any transhumanists on meth, or any productive transhumanists on meth
11:53  * nsh chuckles
11:53 < kanzure> so no, not like meth
11:53 < AdrianG> im pretty sure desoxyn is very popular in the Silicon Valley.
11:53 < AdrianG> ive heard its the most common adhd drug in that area.
11:53 < nmz787> nsh: looks like most of the items in PIHKAL
11:54 < nsh> AdrianG, http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_2CINBOMe.shtml
11:54 < nmz787> desoxyn == meth
11:54 < nmz787> in tablet
11:54 < nmz787> :D
11:54 < AdrianG> methamphetamine is methamphetamine
11:54 < AdrianG> nsh: i dont see anything nootropical about this
11:54 < kanzure> i don't see what SV has to do with it
11:54 < nsh> it has some potential, though i suspect the main obstacles in psychedelic-based phenomenological research are intersubjective, rather than stereochemical
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11:54 < AdrianG> plus i cannot take psychedelics
11:54 < AdrianG> i have increased risks of HPPD
11:54 < kanzure> i also don't see why it has to be a euphoric drug
11:55 < AdrianG> because hyperthymia is conducive to being productive
11:55 < nsh> creativity and euphoria are correlated
11:55 < AdrianG> and difference between euphoria and hyperthymia is just that of a degree
11:55 < nmz787> http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=95977
11:55 < nmz787> one of two refs to transhumanist in the experiences
11:55 < kanzure> yes but said "euphoria" hasn't been enough to make any of the meth-heads make better nootropics (which was my original test i offered)
11:55 < AdrianG> meth is a productivity drug.
11:55 < nmz787> ibogaine is active in addiction treament centers in mexico
11:55 < nsh> kanzure, ok
11:56 < kanzure> AdrianG: i am arguing that the production output is not interesting. cleaning? shit, hire someone for <$50/hour to do that.
11:56 < AdrianG> kanzure: it'll increase productivity of anything you are doing
11:56 < AdrianG> increased energy/focus/concentration cant hurt.
11:57 < kanzure> i don't seem to be communicating with you
11:57 < kanzure> what do you think i am saying?
11:57 < AdrianG> production output is not interesting.
11:57  * nsh is dubious
11:57 < AdrianG> that's a strange thing to say. everything you do is an output.
11:57 < kanzure> i was saying, specifically, the production output of meth-heads
11:57 < AdrianG> we are not talking about addicts
11:57 < nsh> efficacy in one domain is generally at the expense of another
11:57 < kanzure> i have never heard of a meth-head making a better drug
11:58 < AdrianG> nsh: stimulants are overdrive drugs
11:58 < kanzure> and i have never heard of a heroin experience leading to a better drug
11:58 < AdrianG> you pay for it later.
11:58 < AdrianG> kanzure: let me guess, LSD led to something else?
11:58 < kanzure> what?
11:58 < nmz787> in shulgins cas
11:58 < nmz787> e
11:58 < AdrianG> what other drugs lead to better drugs?
11:58 < nmz787> I generally revere psychedelics
11:58 < nmz787> but they aren't for everyyday
11:58 < kanzure> AdrianG: my point is that so far there hasn't been anything that reliably leads to better systematic search of nootropics
11:59 < AdrianG> you can take them daily anywya, its impossible
11:59 < nsh> AdrianG, have you tried playing buckaroo after 12 cups of coffee?
11:59 < AdrianG> kanzure: that has no bearing on their effectivness
11:59 < nmz787> sure you can
11:59 < AdrianG> you expect a breakthrough in a pill
11:59 < kanzure> a LSD trip might lead to some strange concept by accidet, but that's not a nootropic effect
11:59 < kanzure> that's a psychedelic effect
11:59 < AdrianG> nsh: ofc not, i dont drink coffee
11:59 < nmz787> the dose doesn't have to be tripping-level
11:59 < AdrianG> nmz787: tolerance
12:00 < nmz787> sub-active doses improve things in a less perceptible manner, such that you aren't going crazy with colors and can't talk to people
12:00 < AdrianG> tryptamine/phenethylamines build up tolerance really quick
12:00 < kanzure> i strongly disagree with the premise that tripping and randomly disrupting the brain is the only way to design new drugs
12:00 < nmz787> so dose heroin and meth
12:00 < nmz787> does*
12:00 < AdrianG> nmz787: amphetamines maintain their concentrating/focusing effect
12:00 < nmz787> kanzure: I'm not advocating that
12:00 < nsh> kanzure, you can find bugs by analysis of source code, you can also find bugs by fuzzing
12:00 < kanzure> nmz787: AdrianG is.
12:00 < rdb> AdrianG, they also build off tolerance really quick
12:00 < AdrianG> euphoria/mood boost will go away
12:00 < nsh> if people are willing to do that to themselves, i won't try to talk them out of it
12:00 < AdrianG> rdb: concentration stays, only mood elevation goes away
12:01 < kanzure> nsh: there are millions of people "fuzzing" their brain, and the results aren't that interesting to me so far
12:01 < kanzure> nsh: so, that argument doesn't make sense to me.
12:01  * nsh shrugs
12:01 < rdb> AdrianG, I mean tryptamines and serotoninergic psychedelics build off tolerance quickly
12:01 < kanzure> nsh: specifically we are talking about nootropics
12:01 < AdrianG> rdb: yes i am well aware thx cpt obvious
12:01 < nsh> right
12:01 < nmz787> AdrianG: I took amphetamines prescribed for many years and the concetration isn't maintained
12:01 < AdrianG> nmz787: adhd?
12:01 < kanzure> nsh: randomly fuzzing your brain and breaking things has various benefits for personal development blah blah blah, but that's not the conversation
12:01 < nsh> kanzure, sure
12:02 < nmz787> there's no rule book that says you need to take nootropics daily
12:02 < AdrianG> ITS LAW
12:02 < nmz787> you can definitely sustain a weekly trip
12:02 < AdrianG> lol a weekly trip
12:03 < nmz787> I think psychedelics are more about paradigm transcending or shifting
12:03 < AdrianG> they just demolish your ego
12:03 < AdrianG> so that you are not constrained by your monkey/reptile brain
12:03 < nmz787> not in all dose levels though
12:03 < AdrianG> its a matter of degree
12:03 < AdrianG> ego death vs ego weakening
12:03 < rdb> not really
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12:03 < kanzure> man, everyone talks about that
12:04 < AdrianG> what else is useful about psychedelics?
12:04 < kanzure> and they all think they are being insightful because they have had trips
12:04 < AdrianG> except unchaining you?
12:04 < nmz787> like I said, in sub-active doses they merely do things to subconscious rather than modify your whole personality... i.e. make patterns more recognizable
12:04 < AdrianG> nmz787: so ok your brains are loosened up slightly
12:04 < nmz787> a good book is http://www.amazon.com/Food-Gods-Original-Knowledge-Evolution/dp/0553371304
12:04 < rdb> in low doses psychedelics are very productive with barely any of the distracting effects
12:04 < AdrianG> whats the difference between a total unravelling
12:04 < AdrianG> and a slight loosening up?
12:05 < nmz787> AdrianG: worlds of difference
12:05 < rdb> how much experience do you have with psychedelics and different dosages?
12:05 < AdrianG> i dont like psychedelics
12:05 < kanzure> nsh: well so much for the noots conversation.
12:05 < nmz787> laying on the floor slobbering and making random noises vs in your business office and interacting with society
12:05 < AdrianG> yes it quickly degenerated
12:05 < AdrianG> nmz787: how quickly your amps lost the focus effect
12:06 < rdb> AdrianG, how often have you used psychedelics?
12:06 < AdrianG> rdb: i plead the 5th
12:06 < kanzure> nsh: maybe i am impossible to understand
12:06 < nmz787> they lost their efficacy after I started high school
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12:07 < AdrianG> nmz787: since grade 1 until high school?
12:07 < nsh> kanzure, sorry, i'm distracted
12:07 < nmz787> so time-wise it was years, but I agree that it detracted from the rest of my brains development in social/out-of-box thinking
12:07 < nmz787> grade 4 - 9
12:07 < nmz787> but i didn't need them
12:07 < nmz787> i was misdiagnosed
12:07 < nmz787> and hated them
12:08 < nmz787> i hated the high
12:08 < AdrianG> how were u misdiagnosed
12:09 < nmz787> Nootropics ( /noʊ.əˈtrɒpɨks/ noh-ə-trop-iks), also referred to as smart drugs, memory enhancers, neuro enhancers, cognitive enhancers, and intelligence enhancers, are drugs,supplements, nutraceuticals, and functional foods that improve mental functions such as cognition, memory, intelligence, motivation, attention, and concentration.[1][2] The word nootropic was coined in 1972[3][4] by the 
12:09 < nmz787> from wikipedia
12:09 < kanzure> i think the biggest problem is that all of those things are hard to measure
12:09 < kanzure> so some people conflate concentration with euphoria
12:10 < nmz787> for instance methadone helps my motivation way more than amphetamine
12:10 < kanzure> there are psychometric tests for each of those topics
12:10 < nmz787> which is weird, and I haven't used it in years... but amphetamine stopped motivating me when I finally said fuck this drug, because while on it I couldn't be social
12:10 < AdrianG> yeah
12:10 < kanzure> but i'm not 100% convined that the existing psychometric tests measure anything meaningful in the brain
12:11 < AdrianG> its not like amphetamines increase performance in any tests
12:11 < AdrianG> like CPT II, trails AB, etc
12:11 < kanzure> i think it would be more useful if we knew one exact microcircuit that we know can have two types of performance (terrible, and obviously better), and then develop a psychometric test for that
12:11 < AdrianG> supraphysiological doses of thyroxine are probably also nootropic to some extent
12:11 < kanzure> "stroop test" verges on almost pathetic to me :(
12:12 < AdrianG> design something better
12:12 < kanzure> that's what we're talking about, i thought
12:12 < AdrianG> increasing intelligence is hard
12:13 < AdrianG> it'd help to know what makes us intelligent in the first place
12:13 < rdb> intelligence is kind of an abstract concept in itself
12:13 < kanzure> "intelligence" is a load of poop
12:13 < rdb> an umbrella term for an array of cognitive abilities
12:13 < nmz787> i think biology may be too complex and we don't know enough to pinpoint answers today
12:14 < kanzure> nmz787: "too complex" is hand waving
12:14 < nmz787> random dosing works for some, and makes lazy bums in others
12:14 < kanzure> "intelligence" and "consciousness" is also handwaving
12:14 < nmz787> monte carlo is a bitch, but its evolution i guess
12:14 < kanzure> it's not intelligence, it's improved performance of your hippocampal-thalamocortical tract
12:14 < kanzure> (well, no)
12:15 < kanzure> (also, that white matter tract doesn't exist)
12:15 < kanzure> but none of you called me out on that :(
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12:17  * nsh delves back momentarily
12:17  * nmz787 doesn't know about them cellulars
12:17 < AdrianG> is hyperthymia a nootropic
12:18 < kanzure> AdrianG: i don't think any of the tests you proposed are nootropically-relevant, but maybe i've missed something you can point to?
12:18  * nsh blinks
12:18 < AdrianG> kanzure: how arent they nootropically relevant
12:18 < AdrianG> they attempt to measure executive function.
12:19 < kanzure> because "executive function" was defined by psychologists who didn't know about the brain
12:19 < kanzure> i want something based on neuroscience
12:21 < AdrianG> thats an arbitrary whim.
12:22 < nmz787> so if no good metric exists, I fall back to that we're left to chance
12:22 < AdrianG> so if u do insist on neuroscience
12:22 < kanzure> nmz787: or you make up metrics
12:22 < nsh> there's a law for that
12:22 < AdrianG> look into frontal dementia and executive function tests
12:22 < AdrianG> i doubt anyone will argue frontal lobes are kind of important
12:23 < kanzure> ok sure, if you remove parts of the brain things will happen
12:23 < kanzure> but that's not useful to a nootropic designer
12:23 < kanzure> if you deactive parts of the brain through remote stimulation, that might be somewhat helpful, although that's not a drug and outside the current discussion
12:23 < AdrianG> is ability to direct and deploy the focal point of your attention important to nootropic designers?
12:23 < kanzure> "attention" means what though?
12:24  * AdrianG sighs
12:24 < kanzure> please tell me which particular brain system you're talking about hacking, and don't resort to folk psychology
12:25 < AdrianG> the brain is not a lego set.
12:25 < kanzure> nobody says it was
12:25 < AdrianG> and plasma ligands are not a precise enough method
12:25 < AdrianG> to tweak specific systems
12:26 < kanzure> there are many ways to target regions, worst case scenario you get intersecting magnetic fields in the location that you want, where the accumulative field strength blah blah blah
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12:28 < AdrianG> TMG is garbage.
12:28 < kanzure> g?
12:28 < AdrianG> kanzure: u should talk to salamandyr about
12:29 < kanzure> what is psychophysics, again?
12:29 < kanzure> oh, sensor research
12:29 < AdrianG> sry TMS
12:29 < AdrianG> type.
12:29 < AdrianG> typo*
12:29 < kanzure> magnetic stimulation isn't the best example i could have used, that's true
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12:33 < nmz787> I think life productivity is relative
12:33 < AdrianG> no shit
12:34 < kanzure> i think the "design a better nootropic" test is somewhat relevant
12:34 < nmz787> some people love making art, and its way productive to them... others love making nanostructures, and making a fuckton of chips is productive to them
12:34 < AdrianG> yeah, good luck integrating a super-computer into your brain
12:34 < kanzure> besides, what's the point of the transhumanist takeoff if it isn't a takeoff
12:34 < nmz787> either of the two could say the other is missing out on life
12:34 < kanzure> AdrianG: supercomputers-in-a-human-skull aren't step one or necessarily anywhere in your future
12:34 < AdrianG> nmz787: thats the stupidest thing ive heard today
12:35 < AdrianG> obv productivity would be measured on a standard test
12:35 < AdrianG> i.e. your performance.
12:35 < nmz787> AdrianG: A lot of people think I say stupid things, but its relavant to me
12:35 < kanzure> nmz787: it's not whether or not other people think you are happy
12:35 < AdrianG> anything that boosts cerebral metabolism is going to be nootropical
12:35 < AdrianG> or enhances energy utilization
12:35 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
12:35 < kanzure> AdrianG: not true; just because you consume energy doesn't mean you're doing anything
12:35 < AdrianG> kanzure: the brain has a limited supply of glucose.
12:35 < AdrianG> understand? limited.
12:35 < kanzure> nmz787: "making art" is cool and all, but can you scale that up a million times? a billion times?
12:35 < nmz787> right but Richard Feynamn sucked at drawing compared to Jirary Zorthian, and ZOrthian sucked at physics/science (like, totally, he always changed the subject)
12:36 < nmz787> but they were both great in their own fields
12:36  * nmz787 lived at the Zorthian ranch years ago
12:36 < AdrianG> lol wow nmz
12:36 < kanzure> nmz787: most artists seem content to limitations on their artistic creation, so i don't think that's a relevant argument against performance enhancement
12:36 < nmz787> kanzure: I imagine there are millions or billions of artists living now
12:37 < kanzure> AdrianG: if you look at the studies you will see a decrease in metabolism for increased performance (at least in some scenarios)
12:37 < AdrianG> wat
12:37 < kanzure> nmz787: i don't think you should be concerned with what other people think about you
12:38 < kanzure> nmz787: if you're not interested in personal technological enhancement, it's not a crime
12:38 < nmz787> kanzure: yeah I'm not really, but I'm trying to get my point across and it seems that AdrianG doesn't see eye to eye
12:38 < kanzure> well, i should say s/enhancement/ability-to-create-more-technology
12:38 < nmz787> kanzure: i'm interested in personal tech enhancment
12:38 < nmz787> !
12:39 < nmz787> kanzure: that's why I want a DNA synthesizer! to create enzymes to make drugs!
12:39 < nmz787> to test on some prototype organism to see if they work
12:39 < nmz787> rather than myself
12:39 < AdrianG> you could implant a meth enzyme in yo brainz :o
12:40 < nmz787> because as I said, testing on yourself can lead to addiction/toxic problems
12:40 < kanzure> nmz787: i was making comments related to your "live and let live" "performance measurement" comment, sorry if that wasn't clear.
12:41 < nmz787> kanzure: well retrospect is what I was getting at there
12:42 < nmz787> kanzure: i.e. if we don't have a good metric /now/, we can only look at a dead person's life history to see if they were productive
12:42 < kanzure> huh?
12:43 < nmz787> well Shulgin says he started with mescaline... whether that got him interested as a chemist to pursue making more psychedelics I'm not sure
12:43 < kanzure> i don't want to argue for some universal entropic work measurement
12:43 < nmz787> so what metric could we have used on the day before he took mescaline to see if mescaline would have benefitted him positively or negatively
12:44 < nmz787> if he wouldn't have taken that, would he have never delved into making more psychedlics, or would he made even better more kickass nootropic-like chems
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12:44 < nmz787> entropic?
12:45 < kanzure> yes, entropy is one way of measuring work production
12:45 < kanzure> i specifically don't want to argue for some universal work metric
12:45 < nmz787> i was mentioning him because of your "design a better nootropic" test
12:46 < nmz787> I would argue he did "design a better nootropic", in fact two books full of them
12:46 < nmz787> or at least some of them are good
12:46 < kanzure> he seems to be the type of person that would have done that anyway, and not because of any particular drug
12:46 < kanzure> there are many people who write many volumes of books about drugs they have synthesized
12:47 < nmz787> he's the only one I know of
12:48 < kanzure> what about whitesides, karplus, corey, heeger, gratzel, huber, langer, schleyer, wutrich, bax, bard, lehn, schreiber, ...
12:48 < nmz787> but you saying he seems to be the type of person to do that anyway doesn't help us ge to a metric
12:48 < kanzure> these are all individuals who have written mountains of literature about synthesis (some percent of which they have synthesized)
12:48 < nmz787> whitesides made drugs?
12:48 < kanzure> no, i'm just talking about people who write lots of books about chemicals
12:48 < nmz787> i don't recognize the other names
12:48 < kanzure> independent of drug ingestion
12:49 < kanzure> i'm saying that writing volumes of books about chemicals is not a trait bestowed by some nootropic effect
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12:50 < nmz787> right, but I'm saying shulgin did attempt and may have succeeded to "design a better nootropic"
12:50 < nmz787> that was practically his mission statement
12:50 < kanzure> i just remember it getting him high
12:50 < kanzure> i haven't read his books in a long time
12:50 < kanzure> a very long time
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13:38 < kanzure> damn, someone should do cclive/youtube-dl for mediafire and all those other terrible sites
13:38 < kanzure> i guess that has to be me
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13:56 < kanzure> huh, mediafire takes surprisingly little precautions from multiple ip addresses using the same exact authentication tokens
13:56 < kanzure> so what's the point of these "wait to download the file" things if i can just bypass that completely by distributing wget scripts
13:57 < nmz787> how long is the token good for though
13:58 < kanzure> nmz787: let's try it.. one sec
14:00 < kanzure> nmz787: curl http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/download-android-malware-from-mediafire.sh | bash
14:01 < kanzure> oh uh,
14:01 < kanzure> well, you should probably redirect the output to some file like malware.dat
14:01 < kanzure> so .. curl http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/download-android-malware-from-mediafire.sh | bash > malware.dat
14:06 < nmz787> http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/07/16/hacker-opens-high-security-handcuffs-with-3d-printed-and-laser-cut-keys/
14:06 < nmz787> he says he wont release CAD for two of the keys, but the article has an image of the key... so combined with that software for using images to reproduce keys... he kind of released it
14:07 < nmz787> downloading here
14:07 < kanzure> congratulations you are now the proud owner of 1.5 GB of android malware, trojans and viruses
14:09 < kanzure> there's also this (165 MB, but included in that): wget --user-agent="blah" "http://www.mediafire.com/file/1ch8uzgd9evcawb/Android-Malware_SortedTYPE-MD5.zip"
14:09  * nmz787 cancelled that download :P
14:09 < kanzure> ooh CarrierIQ-android-blackberry.zip
14:11 < kanzure> http://www.malgenomeproject.org/
14:11 < kanzure> "In this project, we focus on the Android platform and aim to systematize or characterize existing Android malware. Particularly, with more than one year effort, we have managed to collect more than 1,200 malware samples that cover the majority of existing Android malware families, ranging from their debut in August 2010 to recent ones in October 2011."
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14:21 < kanzure> "Medre.A  is a an AutoCAD worm, written in AutoLISP and is a very unusual piece of malware. It was
14:21 < kanzure> ACAD/Medre.A – 10000′s of AutoCAD files leaked in suspected industrial espionage and the corresponding whitepaper ACAD/Medre.A and ESET technical analysis is here ACAD/Medre.A Technical Analysis"
14:21 < kanzure> http://blog.eset.com/2012/06/21/acadmedre-10000s-of-autocad-files-leaked-in-suspected-industrial-espionage
14:21 < kanzure> http://blog.eset.com/2012/06/21/acadmedre-a-technical-analysis-2
14:21 < kanzure> "ESET reported Peru and neighboring countries as the target but I noticed that one of the samples' (MD5 25c7e10bb537b4265f6144f2cd7f6d95) original name is 未命名1 ( Unnamed 1), so I wonder if some targets/sources were Chinese speaking."
14:22 < kanzure> http://contagiodump.blogspot.com/2012/06/medrea-autocad-worm-samples.html#more
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14:35 < nmz787> David House Grand Jury Notes http://pastebin.com/q0hTkwFh
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14:38 < nmz787> "I notice you are taking notes. Attempting to create your own transcript is a violation of rule 6(e) of this grand jury."
14:38 < kanzure> oh noes
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15:42 < kanzure> cpopell: have you considered using an actual irc client for once
15:42 < kanzure> like, i'd expect you'd be the type of person who would like mibbit
15:42 < cpopell> But I like virc and it doesn't work on win7 >_>
15:43 < kanzure> you keep logging in from the freenode thing
15:43 < cpopell> yeah
15:43 < cpopell> shrug
16:05 < kanzure> "You chose to format sda1 to ext3. All data in that partition will LOSE."
16:06 < kanzure> cfdisk has weird grammar
16:10 < Sanqui> it's to make you read it twice
16:12 < kanzure> wow, android-x86 runs much more smoothly than the other emulated junk
16:12 < AdrianG> any android x86 devices
16:14 < AdrianG> ?
16:15 < kanzure> yes they've been out for a few years
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17:12 < AdrianG> are there any virtualbox VMs you can download with android x86 on it?
17:12 < kanzure> i'm playing with qemu and android-x86-4.0-RC2-eeepc.iso
17:25 < AdrianG> ic
17:57 < kanzure> hrm the "Behavior Genetics Association" site is supposed to have a mailman installation, anyone have the link?
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18:04 < kanzure> hmmm i am getting recruiting emails out the gazoo today
18:04 < kanzure> box.net, airbnb, rockmelt (uughhh) all within 30 minutes
18:10 < kanzure> "The 1,000 Genomes Project now at 130 TB and growing"
18:11 < kanzure> "The Human Microbiome Project now at 10 TB and growing"
18:11 < kanzure> "NASA's Solar Observatory:           1.6 TB per day"
18:11 < kanzure> "CERN's LHD:                                 60 TB per day"
18:11 < kanzure> "Large Synoptic Survey Telescope: 140 TB per day"
18:11 < kanzure> "Square Kilometer Array:                 480 PB per day"
18:36 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: 2237b68 add chroot instructions to README.md
18:39 < kanzure> gnusha: poke
18:39 < kanzure> i guess nanoengineer.git is missing the postreceive hook
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18:39 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/commit/2237b682db2b0c55be81eee747a588b2e073bf0b
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18:40 < kanzure> ah he's just slow.
18:40 < kanzure> i guess that might be ikiwiki's fault or something
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18:44 < kanzure> oh look it's perry https://github.com/pmetzger
18:45 < kanzure> he wants to start a facebook group, but so far his only content is me -_-
18:45 < kanzure> https://www.facebook.com/groups/359005944168966/
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--- Log closed Wed Jul 18 00:00:12 2012