--- Log opened Mon Jul 30 00:00:23 2012
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06:04 < nmz787> NY state sucks for medical tests
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08:19 < kanzure> hmm
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10:04 < kanzure> "Company withdrawing from Facebook as analytics show 80% of ad clicks from bots"
10:04 < kanzure> so, i thought all advertisers made ad links proxy through one of their servers that does click fraud detection
10:04 < kanzure> or at least, that's what they claim
10:04 < kanzure> i'm sure google adwords has something like that implemented, but what about everything else?
10:17 < chris_99> companies might pay people $0 dollars on MTurk to click their opponents ads
10:19 < kanzure> that's silly; that can be automated.
10:21 < chris_99> it depends it'll require fake FB accounts
10:21 < chris_99> which probably require captchas
10:22 < kanzure> chris_99: captchas don't stop people
10:22 < kanzure> http://deathbycaptcha.com/
10:23 < kanzure> also, facebook accounts are cheap. $5 for 500 or something.
10:30 < chris_99> yeah, i know some can be broken
10:32 < kanzure> hmm no i mean it's cheap enough to just hire humans to type captchas
10:33 < kanzure> sometimes this is even cheaper than hiring a programmer to break a captcha
10:55 < chris_99> that's what i meant about mturk
10:56 < kanzure> ah. mturk is sorta costly for captcha breaking.
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11:07 < kanzure> haha what? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_fraud#Michael_Anthony_Bradley
11:34 < Burninate>  This is dumb
11:34 < Burninate> Facebook is one of the most ubiquitous brands to arise in decades, on the same level as Google
11:36 < Burninate> Just because the IPO circlejerk can't inflate their notional capacity for growth to 20 billion people, doesn't mean it's without value
11:38 < Burninate> The VC & tech press has made it into some kind of pariah, and so every day a few dozen editors go searching for stories to link on Facebook's downfall
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12:04 < kanzure> http://www.quora.com/Biology-1/What-is-the-best-approach-to-building-a-home-DIYBio-Synthetic-Biology-lab-for-a-newbie
12:05 < archels> kanzure: What does the average home-based biohacker want to accomplish?
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12:05 < kanzure> archels: no clue
12:05 < kanzure> i don't know why they would ask on quora anyway..
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12:33 < jrayhawk> seems most cost effective to MITM captchas these days
12:40 < jrayhawk> Burninate: while the "facebook ipo wasn't underpriced therefore facebook is awful" and "facebook only grew 30% in the second quarter therefore facebook is awful" narratives are dumb, there are still very good reasons to advocate for avoiding that stock like the plague
12:41 < kanzure> haha "picking stocks"
12:41 < jrayhawk> the most significant of which is that when employees finally get an opportunity to exercise, that stock is going to crash pretty hard
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12:50 < kanzure> hi yashgaroth.
12:50 < yashgaroth> yo
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15:07 < kanzure> hmm so what's this about malcolm gladwell pushing ritalin?
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16:24 < AdrianG> why is he pushing ritalin
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17:09 < kanzure> "Just a brief note: bot sophistication is off the hook. I worked at an ad network where one of the clients demanded we prove that the mouse had moved prior to "clicking" on one of their ads. No problem, we said, and most of the traffic passed the test. The traffic had referrers, legit user agents, javascript, and they were triggering the mousemove and click events."
17:09 < kanzure> "Out of curiosity, we sent a fraction of traffic to a test page, wherein the actual page was displayed in a full window iframe, then blocked access until the user clicked, and tracked their mouse movements. Easy enough; annoying for a user, but not a deal breaker for most."
17:09 < kanzure> "The user movement maps we ended up with were straight lines of randomly spaced dots with sudden acute corners. A human could not replicate the pattern with a ruler and a pen pad, and we certainly didn't expect 90% of our human users going for that client's sites to be sitting around with rulers and pen pads drawing lines of randomly spaced dots."
17:09 < kanzure> "We checked the testing code and ran a dozen tests, and we couldn't figure out how a human could replicate it on any browsing device. Our conclusion is that somebody bothered to program a bot that would replicate mouse movement and we accidentally broke it by blocking programmatic access to the page, so it couldn't find a link to click and went crazy."
17:13 < Urchin> I think I could easily program my wm to do something like that
17:13 < kanzure> sure
17:13 < kanzure> so, if i was that ad network, i would use something like an image map, which does not have html elements to indicate which section is the actual button
17:13 < kanzure> if i was the bot author, i would check the html elements to determine where to move the mouse to
17:14 < kanzure> (and do headless rendering to get the coordinates of various html elements on screen)
17:15 < kanzure> fingerprinting mouse movements seems a bit tricky to do; what if the mouse is moving around for 5min before clicking? that's a bunch of data.
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17:32 < kanzure> "The sophisticate click fault I've seen involved a distributed botnet clicking from hundreds of IP all over the world doing slow clicks during the day. We found out because it's targeting a product category of a merchant and causing unusual click stats compared to historic pattern."
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20:17 < kanzure> looks like hodak's thing is about to close a $1M round
20:20 < kanzure> https://www.transcriptic.com/about/protocols
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20:25 < nmz7871> :P
20:25 < kanzure> oh he has already raised half.. neat.
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23:46 < kanzure> "hat's in the headers being sent by the browser? Any foreign language support, or oddities when it comes to not accepting compressed content? Is the referer header always the same? Does it always vary?"
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--- Log closed Tue Jul 31 00:00:24 2012