--- Log opened Thu Aug 02 00:00:26 2012
00:01 < nmz787> if i want to chain cmds together, how can i pipe a filename to them all
00:01 < nmz787> i.e. echo 1.mdwn | sed -i 's/^= /\# /g' | sed -i 's/^== /\## /g' | sed -i 's/^=== /\### /g' | sed -i 's/^==== /\#### /g'
00:02 < nmz787> or even using && between them
00:02 < kanzure> cat 1.mdwn | sed 's/^= /\# /g' > output.mdwn
00:03 < kanzure> but these sed commands can be compressed into one regular expression
00:03 < nmz787> nah i want to give the same filename to multiple sed cmds
00:03 < nmz787> to sub the same number of # for = ?
00:04 < kanzure> yeah i'm trying to remember my regex-foo..
00:04 < kanzure> there's a way to say repeating
00:04 < kanzure> if it was just digits it would be \d+
00:05 < nmz787> + means one or more
00:05 < nmz787> but that's just to match
00:07 < nmz787> sed 's/patA/replA/g;s/patB/replB/g;s/patC/replC/g' < infile > outfile
00:08 < nmz787> apparently that works for what i'm thinking
00:08 < kanzure> well, no, you don't want in/out files in your case
00:08 < kanzure> and using multiple patterns isn't how regular expressions work :P
00:11 < kanzure> nmz787: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7337995/regex-replace-sequence-of-one-character-with-same-number-of-another-character
00:11 < kanzure> but that's cheating.. they are using perl to get around their regex incompetence
00:12 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 9f9577b changed file extensions to mdwn and = to #
00:12 < fenn> ug i've been hacking regex minutiae all day
00:13 < fenn> ==(=+)
00:13 < kanzure> damn it fenn
00:14 < kanzure> all too late.
00:15 < nmz787> yeah i used -i so in-place, except I didn't catch that there was also an = at the end, so i'm removing then manually now
00:15 < kanzure> nmz787: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/projects/
00:15 < kanzure> yes..
00:15 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 67cde24 removed junk
00:15 < kanzure> ^= should have caught that?
00:16 < kanzure> you can do s/== $//g
00:17 < fenn> there's no mediawiki to markdown converter out there already?
00:17 < fenn> sorry, "wikitext" is the keyword apparently
00:18 < kanzure> mediawiki2markdown.py sucks
00:18 < kanzure> https://github.com/mithro/media2iki/pull/1
00:18 < kanzure> i compared some of the output in this repository: git://gist.github.com/3231461.git or https://gist.github.com/3231461
00:19 < kanzure> custom.md is my hand written version, output.md is the mediawiki2markdown.py output, crap/markdownify.md is the markdownify output (given html from openwetware-mediawiki)
00:19 < kanzure> (github will render the markdown or attempt to render .mediawiki)
00:19 < fenn> that gist looks ok
00:20 < kanzure> custom.md should look ok because i manually fixed it up
00:20 < kanzure> honestly the original page was poorly formatted anyway, and that's why it turns out to look like ass in markdown
00:20 < kanzure> jcline had things like fifth-level indentation going on and blockquotes for random sections
00:21 < kanzure> mediawiki/monobook is very good at making a page not look terrible despite its formatting
00:21 < fenn> the immortal words of babbage yet ring true
00:21 < fenn> there's a warm bed waiting for me
00:21 < fenn> good luck with your wiki woes
00:22 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/laser_etcher
00:22 < fenn> i saw
00:22 < kanzure> ok good night
00:22  * kanzure sleeps too
00:23 < nmz787> this gets two but not one or three =s
00:23 < nmz787> sed 's/=+$/\ /g' equipment.mdwn |less
00:23 < kanzure> nmz787: i think the diybio faq needs a bunch of work
00:23 < kanzure> none of the questions here are what people actually ask
00:23 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/
00:24 < kanzure> like most people want to know what the most important kits are, where to buy taq, what labx/ebay vendors might be okay, etc.
00:24 < kanzure> or they want to know what sort of "glowing" experiments they want to do are (ugh)
00:25 < kanzure> i would recommend using vim or something for the time being.. escape :%s/=== $//g
00:32 < nmz787> CONFLICT (content): Merge conflict in diybio/faq/kits.mdwn
00:32 < nmz787> Automatic merge failed; fix conflicts and then commit the result.
00:36 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: c088694 removed trailing =s
00:36 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 0ba84e0 using theirs
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00:51 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 7040c80 added HTML space nbsp char in place of :: (indent in wikitext)
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08:17 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 4d59f72 remove trailing whitespace in diybio/faq/ files
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08:24 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 1eafef2 fix bullet list formatting in diybio/faq/equipment
08:26 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: a33ca36 fix some 4th-level headers in diybio/faq/equipment
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08:31 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: a1a0490 fix a few headers and spacing in diybio/faq/methods.mdwn
08:37 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: a80a5eb fix hyperlinking in diybio/faq/methods.mdwn
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09:26 < kanzure> http://stenoknight.com/plover/ploverdemo/assets/dict.json
09:40 < kanzure> lolz recruiters. "well i can't give these guys anyone charging more than $30/hour."
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10:05 < delinquentme> " click "
10:11 < archels> http://2045.com/
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10:21 < delinquentme> ^^^^^^^^^
10:28 < kanzure> 2045 was just that russian media blitz.. meh
10:28 < kanzure> "Former Executive Sues Manufacturer of Pill Meant To Rejuvenate Cells"
10:28 < kanzure> "You’re going to be hearing from my attorney,” Brian Egan told his boss on his last day of work, nearly a year ago. Last week, Egan filed a class-action lawsuit that accuses Telomerase Activation Sciences (TA Sciences) in New York of engaging in deceptive business practices in promoting a proprietary herbal extract intended to reverse the effects of aging."
10:28 < nmz787> delinquentme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6jtLAnqiiA&feature=player_embedded
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10:29 < delinquentme> LOLOL
10:29 < delinquentme> WAAAAt.
10:29 < kanzure> "But TA Sciences has taken the buzz further: it sells a pill called TA-65, which it says can lengthen short telomeres. The pill brings in an annual revenue of $6 million in the United States alone."
10:29 < kanzure> "he active ingredient of TA-65 was isolated from the herb Astragalus membranaceus and patented by Geron, a biopharmaceutical firm in Menlo Park, CA. Research sponsored by TA Sciences and other companies has shown that the compound can lengthen telomeres in mice 2 and humans 3, but Greider and others are skeptical of the assay used."
10:29 < kanzure> "In May 2011, Patton hired Egan to help to expand TA Sciences’ reach in foreign markets. Egan was required to take TA-65 twice a day, he later wrote in a discrimination complaint, so “that I could tell customers that I was also taking the product, and that it was safe and effective.”  Patton denies that it was obligatory."
10:30 < kanzure> "On September 14th, Egan says, he told Patton that he had been diagnosed with Prostate Cancer. The next day, according to Egan, Patton fired him and said that his prostate cancer could ruin the company. Egan says that when he was fired, he was offered a cash settlement "to keep quiet about his cancer," but turned it down"
10:30 < kanzure> hah.
10:30 < nmz787> geez
10:30 < kanzure> "On September 19th, Egan told a potential TA Sciences partner in SPAIN that he had developed cancer while taking TA-65. Patton and TA Sciences sued Egan for defamation in March, saying that he had lost the company $2 million in sales."
10:31 < nmz787> hah there are more delinquentme http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=3P9iteczPh4
10:33 < kanzure> "I can understand that Noel Patton may not be able to say much here; though, I'll give my opinion on the facts given below.  Someone was hired in May 2011, and then on September 14, 2011, he found out he had prostate cancer. "
10:33 < kanzure> "Whether this was unfortunate timing or not (or as an unfortunate strategic move), he was fired on September 15, 2011 for meager sales as the reason cited."
10:33 < kanzure> "Would that be too short of a time-frame for a product to cause prostate cancer (my fuzzy brain is saying that prostate cells are one of slowest-growing cancer cells, something to that effect)?"
10:34 < kanzure> "About 25% of people eventually get cancer and most of them overlap the demographic that will be taking TA-65. Even if TA-65 were completely inert and there were no suspected link to cancer, a lot of people taking it would develop cancer and some of them would think the drug caused it."
10:40 < jrayhawk> Yeah, prostate cancer is common, slow, and usually fairly innocuous.
10:40 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: a0b7825 remove some 'please update me' lines from diybio/faq/ pages
10:42 < jrayhawk> though it would not surprise me in least that a product that undermines cellular senescence would cause cancer
10:44 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: fd5e2ba fix bullet formatting in diybio/faq/kits.mdwn
10:51 < kanzure> :9s/\[http\([^ ]*\) \([^\]]*\)/[\2](\1)
10:51 < kanzure> hrmm
10:52 < kanzure> :9s/\[http\([^ ]*\) \([^\]]*\)\]/[\2](http\1)
10:55 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 03b79f4 convert links in diybio/faq/news.mdwn to markdown
10:58 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 531eab1 fix three broken markdown links
10:58 < kanzure> not bad --> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/news
11:07 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 15d4b49 at least 4 articles about diybio from july 2012
11:13 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: f920f65 wiremound-pcr news item from ponoko and the journal of peer production issue 2
11:13 < chris_99> is there such a thing as a molecular filter
11:13 < chris_99> that would only allow certain molecules through
11:14 < kanzure> molecular sieve
11:14 < kanzure> or you can look up size-exclusion columns
11:14 < chris_99> ooh cool thanks :)
11:14 < nmz787> chris_99: what are you looking to filter?
11:15 < chris_99> i was just curious, i was wondering if you could filter ethanol but that's probably too complex heh
11:15 < nmz787> the particles of interest would need to have /some/ difference from the filtrate
11:15 < nmz787> filter it /from/ what though?
11:16 < chris_99> water
11:17 < nmz787> they are very close in width, so a molecular filter likely wouldn't be any use
11:18 < nmz787> HOH width vs HCH... the length of the molecule could slither through the same pore, so length doesn't really matter
11:19 < nmz787> but you can filter DNA from Protein in water :D
11:23 < chris_99> cool :)
11:25 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 583e574 news links: tz interview w/ cathal garvey, gogofuge, bioart labs, singularityu
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11:36 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 1423c44 convert diybio/faq/educational.mdwn to markdown (partly)
11:37 < nmz787> kanzure: http://www.technologyreview.com/business/39597/
11:37 < nmz787> from march
11:38 < nmz787> there's a diybio-ireland list?
11:39 < nmz787> geez
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11:43 < wzzrope> amazing link
11:44 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 67fe71d use markdown hyperlinks in diybio/faq/educational.mdwn
11:44 < kanzure> nmz787: yeah the march link was in there
11:45 < kanzure> that same day there was also this fearpiece http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/13/e-coli-vials-found-in-arkansas-apartment-used-for-aliment/
11:45 < kanzure> oh oops, wait.
11:45 < kanzure> no i am pretty sure cathal's technologyview article was from february
11:46 < jrayhawk> by the by, if you decide you don't want local.css in the various repositories, we can add an underlay for it and include that underlay in piny.setup.pl if you want
11:47 < jrayhawk> which would also have the effect of making it global
11:48 < nmz787> kanzure: yeah it was there
11:53 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 4301153 convert hyperlinks to markdown in projects.mdwn and fix whitespace
11:54 < kanzure> nmz787: i think the per-region lists are rather silly.. they rarely have any conversations on them, and when they do it's usually something that should be sent to all groups
11:57 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 236a9ec remove multiple spaces after periods (wtf?)
11:58 < nmz787> kanzure: i agree
12:00 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 76def5c convert links to markdwon in diybio/faq/equipment.mdwn
12:00 < kanzure> oh noes a typo
12:01 < kanzure> ! [remote rejected] master -> master (non-fast-forward
12:01 < kanzure> bah.. i guess i disabled that for a reason
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12:02 < kanzure> yashgaroth: hey
12:02 < yashgaroth> hello
12:05 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: cf517b1 fix mangled link markup in equipment.mdwn
12:05 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 4568f13 fix two mangled links in news.mdwn
12:05 < kanzure> yashgaroth: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/
12:05 < kanzure> imo the main faq page is pretty pathetic
12:06 < kanzure> maybe you have some ideas?
12:10 < yashgaroth> hmm
12:11 < yashgaroth> are you mirroring it or co-opting it? cuz if it's the latter you can delete about half of it
12:11 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: da12ec1 remove excess html attributes on elements in diybio/faq.mdwn
12:11 < kanzure> yashgaroth: "co-opting" is such a strong word
12:12 < kanzure> yashgaroth: it was originally my document anyway, and they co-opted it from me
12:12 < yashgaroth> yeah I haven't had enough coffee to think of the more accurate term
12:12 < kanzure> but, they didn't really "co-opt" it, since i was the one who made the most edits to theirs anyway
12:12 < yashgaroth> you know what I mean
12:12 < kanzure> but yes i agree that most of it should be baleeted
12:12 < nsh> "1650s, 'to select (someone) for a group or club by a vote of members,' from L. cooptare 'to elect, to choose as a colleague or member of one's tribe,' from com- 'together' (see com-) + optare 'choose' (see option)."
12:13 < nsh> it's not that hard, historically
12:13 < yashgaroth> why do they have a link to 'the future of food', which was some reactionary luddite bullshit
12:13 < kanzure> not sure
12:13 < kanzure> but it's a link to hulu, so it's probably spam
12:13 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 1e05ba5 remove hulu spam link
12:14 < nmz787> lol
12:15 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 37b628b remove excess directory path jitter from synbiosafe.eu link
12:15 < nsh> "<kanzure> nmz787: -i is edit in place (this is sort of dangerous in sed; but never try "not" editing in place while simultaneously redirecting the output to the input file, this breaks things)"    that's either impossible or redundant, surely...
12:16 < kanzure> my point was that doing this is sucky: sed 's/foo/bar/g' < input.txt > input.txt
12:16 < nsh> you just can't
12:16 < kanzure> er.. i mean "cat input.txt | sed 's/foo/bar/g' > input.txt"
12:17  * nsh nods
12:17 < nmz787> wouldn't cat have already done its biz tho by the time it piped?
12:17 < nsh> although if you had a fs IO that used some kind of intelligent versioning maybe...
12:17 < nsh> nmz787, it's done as a stream
12:17 < kanzure> nmz787: our linux gods will have to explain that one because i'm not exactly sure how to explain it
12:18 < nsh> cat sends a byte to sed which tries to send a byte to input.txt
12:18 < nsh> all kinda at once
12:18 < nsh> which makes the baby kernel jesus cry
12:18 < nsh> otherwise you have to have large buffers between processes in a pipe
12:18 < nsh> which is often not what you want
12:19 < kanzure> nsh: if you can whip up some queries with notmuch i'll pull out some faq-worthy emails from diybio.mbox
12:20 < nsh> queries? notmuch?
12:20 < nsh> oh, it's an "email reading system"
12:20  * nsh investigates
12:36 < nsh> so
12:38 < nsh> kanzure, looking to craft a query that fishes out emails containing possible FAQworthy questions?
12:39  * nsh frowns
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12:43 < nmz787> keywords "what how why"
12:43 < nmz787> seem good to me
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12:44 < nsh> i expect there's already pretty good magic for determining questions with reasonable fidelity
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12:44 < nsh> the more interesting part is classifying them according to FAQiness
12:44 < nsh> so a question from a less-established participant to a more-established participant is more likely to be a faq-y than the converse
12:45 < nsh> faq-y questions will occur more frequently at the beginning of exchanges than in the middle
12:45 < nsh> then you want to be able to semantically cluster so you can get a handle of how "frequent" the question is
12:47 < nsh> major problem is implied context. if you've already been discussing some aspect, then throw in a simple question like "and why do we focus on this?"
12:47 < nsh> takes a lot of humint to work out the full form of the question
12:50 < nsh> kanzure, have you applied notmuch to the mbox^Wmaildir?
12:50 < nsh> wondering if the threading works okay
12:50 < nsh> probably, i'd guess
12:52 < kanzure> no i haven't actually indexed the .mbox
12:55 < nsh> what size is it?
13:00 < kanzure> 22723 emails
13:01 < kanzure> and only 10% are from me :) i am so proud of myself.
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13:01  * nsh smiles
13:01 < nsh> is it all public?
13:01 < nsh> can you send me a mbox.bz2 ?
13:01 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio
13:02 < nsh> maybe i can download it from google
13:02 < kanzure> actually my file is a bit stupid because i sometimes label private emails with this label
13:02 < nsh> ah, that's what i thought
13:02 < kanzure> so i need to sort out emails that were not sent to diybio@googlegroups.com
13:02  * nsh nods
13:02 < kanzure> i would estimate only 100 emails are non-mailing-list related
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13:03 < kanzure> there's probably some way to do this with grep? if diybio@googlegroups.com does not appear in the file, etc..
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13:06  * nsh modifying python mbox filter quickly
13:09 < kanzure> find . -type f | xargs grep -liE "diybio@googlegroups.com"
13:11 < nsh> kanzure, https://gist.github.com/bea4419816547719fa83
13:11 < nsh> python formatting might have faffed up in copypaste
13:12 < kanzure> looking
13:12 < kanzure> i see you are a strict adherent to no space after """
13:12 < nsh> fixed
13:12  * nsh didn't write it, just changed the passthrough_filter
13:13 < nsh> attribution implied by google, etc.
13:13 < kanzure> i don't think this is a valid mbox folder
13:13 < kanzure> "1336881267_2.10415.pikachu,U=22696,FMD5=52dc212dd22b9b9b85f706b7002fbfdf:2,S"
13:14 < kanzure> all of the "FMD5" values are the same for most of the files
13:14 < jrayhawk> 'sponge' from moreutils allows you do do things like cat input.txt | sed 's/foo/bar/g' | sponge input.txt
13:14 < nsh> FMD5 should be the md5 of the folder
13:14 < jrayhawk> how the hell do you md5 a "folder"
13:14 < nsh> name
13:14 < nsh> folder name
13:15 < jrayhawk> oh, i guess that vaguely makes sense
13:16 < nsh> mm *shrug*
13:17 < jrayhawk> kanzure: that's maildir format
13:17 < jrayhawk> notmuch doesn't do mbox
13:17 < kanzure> doh
13:17 < kanzure> maybe i should have noticed that the string ".mbox" doesn't appear anywhere
13:18 < jrayhawk> also PCREs are a lot more pleasant than what sed has to offer, so in general I recommend perl -e 's/foo/bar/g'
13:18  * nsh smiles
13:18 < nsh> unless you plan to run a million instances
13:18 < kanzure> so i have two files: one with a list of ./cur/blah files and another with a list of ./new/blah files
13:19 < jrayhawk> and cat is not a builtin of bash, so you should really get in the habit of using <
13:19 < kanzure> for x in `cat cur-files.txt`; do cp $x destination/; done
13:19 < kanzure> ^ does that look sane/
13:19 < ybit> "well that makes sense" i don't know that _means_!
13:19 < ybit> :)
13:19 < ybit> or something like that..
13:19 < ybit> re: 13:15 < jrayhawk> oh, i guess that vaguely makes sense
13:20  * kanzure pokes ybit
13:20 < nsh> kanzure, should probably quote "$x" to be safe
13:20 < kanzure> too late
13:21 < nsh> maildir file names probably don't have funny characters
13:25 < jrayhawk> technically you want while read x; do cp $x destination; done < cur-files.txt
13:25 < jrayhawk> plus quotes where appropriate
13:26 < nsh> that's a bit zealous imo.  cur-files is input and makes more sense that the beginning
13:26 < nsh> what's so bad about invoking cat?
13:26 < jrayhawk> Keeping an unbounded array in memory is dumb.
13:27 < nsh> is that what happens? cat reads line by line, doesn't it?
13:27 < nsh> not slurpy
13:27 < jrayhawk> Actually, I guess it is bounded by the kernel command line size limit.
13:27 < nsh> http://serverfault.com/questions/62587/processing-large-files-through-bash-pipes-does-it-buffer
13:27 < jrayhawk> Anyway, the subshell is expanded; that's how subshells work.
13:27 < nsh> oh, i see, the backtick expansion
13:28 < nsh> right
13:28 < nsh> yeah, i'd usually use cat | while read
13:28 < nsh> for large inputs
13:28 < jrayhawk> While pipes are zero-copy, there's still a lot of context switching involved there because cat is not a builtin.
13:28 < nsh> hmm
13:29 < nmz787> "i'll pipe my subshell expansion in your cat" -- that's what he said
13:29 < jrayhawk> and yes, bash syntax sucks ass, and the fact that the 'right' way to do things is also unintuitive is unfortunate
13:29  * nsh nods, reads http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2552402/cat-file-vs-file
13:30 < jrayhawk> start a campaign for the inclusion of zsh in base systems
13:30  * nsh smiles
13:31 < nsh> i'd rather chown nsh.nsh *.base
13:32 < nsh> privilege is often easier to attain than permission
13:33 < jrayhawk> ARG_MAX is 2097152 on most systems nowadays, i guess
13:36 < jrayhawk> oh, OS X is still at 262144
13:36 < jrayhawk> 10.7 specifically
13:37 < kanzure> recruiiiters
13:37 < jrayhawk> did you change your employment status on linkedin or something
13:37 < kanzure> no :(
13:37 < nsh> you can redirect them to me if you like
13:37 < kanzure> my linkedin profile is terrible enough that no recruiter would look at it
13:38 < kanzure> this was the same recruiter, except he got his boss on the line at the agency this time
13:39 -!- augur_ [~augur@129-2-129-33.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:40 < jrayhawk> did you laugh and hang up when they said "okay, we can go as high as 45/hr!"
13:40 < kanzure> they upped to $110k/year 30 hours/week
13:41 < nmz787> sounds alright
13:41 < kanzure> but then realized that i was too senior for that
13:41 < jrayhawk> hours per week is always a lie
13:41 < kanzure> so they are going to get "back to me" with "a less embarrassing position"
13:41 < kanzure> yeah i know
13:42 < kanzure> whatever.
13:42 < nmz787> ARM for $4.99 http://www.ti.com/ww/en/launchpad_site/stellaris.html?DCMP=stellaris-launchpad&HQS=stellaris-launchpad
13:43 < kanzure> jrayhawk: my one true hope is that they realized that i was taking a dump during that phone call
13:43 < jrayhawk> should've made it a video call
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13:43 < kanzure> "let me step into my office.."
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13:46 < kanzure> nsh: any last checks i should run to confirm that i'm not sending you my password in these emails?
13:47 < kanzure> jrayhawk: also is it okay to combine new/ and cur/ into one folder?
13:47 < nsh> hmm, i'd hesitate to recommend putting your password into a grep command...
13:50 < jrayhawk> I don't remember how the maildir format works; I never touch it directly and you probably shouldn't either.
13:51 < kanzure> cat combined.txt | sort | uniq | wc -l is the same as wc -l combined.txt
13:51 < kanzure> so the filenames are unique
13:53 < kanzure> uploading..
13:54 < kanzure> gee i hope this doesn't include drafts
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13:57 < kanzure> 16%   24MB 110.8KB/s   18:04 ETA
13:58 < jrayhawk> -z might help
13:59 < jrayhawk> err, -C for scp, i guess
13:59 < kanzure> so i'd be compressing a .tar.gz ?
13:59 < jrayhawk> oh, no, sorry.
14:00 < kanzure> and yes i made sure it was .tar.gz this time :( tar -pczf
14:00 < jrayhawk> -J is your friend for tar
14:01 < jrayhawk> far too late to be worthwhile now, though
14:01 < kanzure> man tar says -J is --xz which is extract gunzip?
14:01 < jrayhawk> http://www.google.com/url?q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xz&sa=U&ei=uuoaUMDsF-OQiAKMqIDQCw&ved=0CB0QFjAC&usg=AFQjCNH3Di_0yLDFyY7Wcp00nO2M-YhHBw
14:01 < jrayhawk> aaaa
14:01 < jrayhawk> goddamn google
14:02 < jrayhawk> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xz
14:04 < kanzure> DCC aborted receiving file mbox-filter.py from nsh
14:04 < kanzure> gaah why would i agree to DCC?
14:05 < nsh> yeah, it was just because i've been getting some audiobooks that way recently
14:05 < jrayhawk> what's wrong with DCC, other than a lack of transport security
14:06 < kanzure> DCC has always been riddled with infinite vulnerabilities and exploits
14:07 < jrayhawk> what how
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14:08 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 65c95c5 2012-07-25 Bio-hacktivism in DIYbio Asia
14:08 < nsh> implementations of it on irc clients you mean
14:08 < nsh> DCC is a pretty simple protocol iirc
14:08 < jrayhawk> like how can a standard that simple be "insecure"
14:08 < kanzure> maybe i am just remembering mirc dcc
14:08 < nsh> mirc and irsii and xchat have had dcc issues
14:08 < nsh> i think
14:09 < kanzure> 71%  101MB 122.0KB/s   05:35 ETA
14:11 < kanzure> i think i missed some things:
14:11 < kanzure> http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/BOSSlab/1925x_sterilizer
14:11 < kanzure> http://openwetware.org/images/4/4e/PressureSteriliser.pdf
14:11 < kanzure> http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/BOSSlab/Notebook
14:12 < kanzure> http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio:Software
14:12 < kanzure> https://github.com/100ideas/ucam
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14:18 < kanzure> nsh: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/diybio.maildir.tar.gz
14:19 < nsh> getting
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14:27 < kanzure> nsh: the best way to find good questions is to search for 1) emails sent by authors who originated <20 previous threads, and 2) in which threads nathan or cathal replied
14:27 < kanzure> (nathan is nmz787)
14:27 < nsh> right
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14:31 < delinquentme> derp derp
14:32 < nsh> what ya derping bout?
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15:04 < nmz787> :D aww shucks
15:05 < nsh> eh?
15:06 < nmz787> just kanzure's comment about finding good questions
15:11 < kanzure> i can't find a better pattern
15:11 < kanzure> i guess people tend to put "beginner" in their message text somewhere
15:16  * nsh still working on extracting questions
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15:20 < kanzure> . Whereby with SP-PT SWR-RB are SP-RPL -PLTD
15:21 < nsh> gezundheit
15:24 < nsh> 50,000 questions after removing obvious urls and quoted text
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15:31 < nmz787> give me an example of what you pulled out
15:31 < nmz787> paste a few one-liners here
15:32 < nmz787> unless I can see them all at some URL
15:32 < kanzure> crap another recruiter ("duran hcp")
15:32 < kanzure> "well this one is only offering 120.." lolz
15:33 < kanzure> nsh: yeah upload that :P
15:34  * nsh smiles
15:35 < nsh> 120 what?
15:35 < kanzure> $120k/year
15:36 < nsh> ah
15:36 < nsh> 36k questions after better quote filtering
15:38 < nmz787> yeah those beginners sure are dumb
15:38 < nmz787> :P
15:38 < nmz787> 36,000 questions and entropy ain't one
15:38 < nmz787> (don't mind my blabbering... ref to jayz)
15:39 < kanzure> here's a question from today:
15:39 < kanzure> "I am really interested in learning about this stuff and I wanted to know if there was a good step by step log of how to do a simple first experiment and the tools necessary - to maybe make something that glows. "
15:39 < kanzure> "Also, is there a particular book, pdf, wiki, or something else that summarizes things for someone who is not native to biology without having to restart college all over again?"
15:41 < nsh> from a non-biological lifeform?
15:41 < kanzure> wtf they require a drug screen for this position?
15:41 < nsh> wow, you have good penetration
15:41 < kanzure> penetration?
15:42 < nsh> as in, your mailing list has a large demographic
15:42 < nsh> including forms of life not native to biology
15:42 < kanzure> oh from the quote
15:42 < nsh> 16k when filtering for how|is|what|who|where|when|why|will|whether|can|did
15:43 < kanzure> you should do a histogram of author stats and then use that to determine which authors are probably posting questions
15:43 < nmz787> where do you see non-biological?
15:43 < kanzure> nmz787: "not native to biology"
15:43 < nsh> strange way of saying hasn't studied biology
15:43 < nmz787> well, logy comes from logos which is knowledge
15:44  * nsh blinks
15:44 < nmz787> so 'not native to knowledge of the bio'
15:44 < kanzure> nmz787: so, obviously what he wants is a kit
15:44 < kanzure> but, having everything shipped to you for $300 seems really silly to me
15:44 < kanzure> how is that diy?
15:45 < nmz787> i dunno man, i haven't been too into the beginner questions lately
15:45 < kanzure> the faq doesn't actually answer any common questions :P
15:46 < nmz787> i can update it a bit
15:46 < nmz787> (i.e. link to carolina)
15:46 < kanzure> i think there might be a carolina link already http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/kits
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15:55 < nsh> it's almost impossible to search for "question" as a thing-in-itself
15:55 < nsh> as people are always asking bloody questions on the internet and talking about the questions that people are asking
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15:57 < nsh> "Question types and some prosodic correlates in 600 questions in the Spontal database of Swedish dialogues"
15:57 < nsh> think that's an audio database though
15:57 < nsh> as they're talking about intonation
15:58 < nsh> http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007TJSAI..22...93M
15:58 < nsh> nasa might be of some use
15:59 < nsh> well, that pdf is not readable...
16:01 < nsh> kanzure, can you read this: https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/tjsai/22/1/22_1_93/_pdf
16:01 < nsh> i might be missing some fonts
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16:04 < nsh> kanzure, http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hbase-user/201103.mbox/<AANLkTinukbvb5r269OruXbVhk8dT2V5uyvEjRBwpMMjb@mail.gmail.com>
16:05 < nsh> http://faqcluster.com/
16:06 < nsh> expect they might be a bit proprietary about their methods
16:07 < kanzure> nsh: they might be scraping pre-existing faqs
16:09 < nsh> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/mahout-user/201102.mbox/thread?1
16:10 < nsh> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/mahout-user/201102.mbox/<4D64872D.8030606@gmail.com>
16:10 < nsh> oh, maybe someone will give me a BSc for this
16:11 < nsh> oh, it's the same guy
16:11 < nsh> (from faqcluster)
16:11 < nsh> maybe just email him
16:11 < kanzure> http://www.core77.com/blog/digital_fabrication/emmanuel_gilloz_foldarap_a_foldable_3d_printer_23061.asp
16:12 < kanzure> http://reprap.org/wiki/FoldaRap
16:14 < kanzure> damn look at all the spam accounts being created: http://reprap.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&limit=500&days=30
16:17 < AdrianG_> kanzure: are there any legit human mods
16:17 < AdrianG_> like diy plastic surgery
16:17 < AdrianG_> or nanobot-facilitated plastic surgery
16:18 < kanzure> do you consider steroids legit?
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16:19 < AdrianG_> kanzure: sure, steroids are old school
16:19 < AdrianG_> they've been around since like 1940s
16:21 < nsh> definite human modification...
16:21 < nsh> i assume you wouldn't class reading or training as such
16:21 < kanzure> or exoskeletons or prosthetics
16:21 < jrayhawk> magnetic implants seem pretty cool to me
16:22 < nsh> jrayhawk, yeah, saw a nice write-up about them
16:23 < kanzure> oh right he wants body modification
16:23 < kanzure> well, you can always split your penis
16:27 < jrayhawk> a more literal hack than most people want to envision
16:29 < kanzure> i think epitron is the most "modded" out of all of us
16:29 < kanzure> iirc he has a brain shunt
16:30 < kanzure> brownies: other question: any ideas on extracting questions from 20,000 emails? i don't want to pick questions manually for a FAQ
16:30 < brownies> ...search for question marks?
16:30 < kanzure> pfft you know it's not that simple
16:31 < kanzure> especially when most questions don't have question marks
16:33 < AdrianG_> kanzure: plastic surgery is a billion dollar industry
16:33 < AdrianG_> nanobots for plastic surgery mods would be an insane money maker
16:34 < kanzure> nanobots don't really exist yet
16:34 < nsh> kanzure, i emailed the guy who did this already
16:34 < nsh> will inform upon reply
16:34 < kanzure> and, if you did have nanobots, a billion dollar industry is not worth your attention
16:35 < kanzure> you would be looking at the hundred billion or trillion dollar industries
16:36 < brownies> well, that's nontrivial
16:36 < brownies> you could look for noun-verb constructions that indicate a question
16:36 < brownies> start by searching for who/where/why/when/what/how
16:36 < brownies> then look for stuff like "who verb noun" in that order... might get you close?
16:37 < kanzure> "Is there a thing to do x."
16:37 < brownies> ah, but, shit, you'll run into places where e.g. who is used as a pronoun
16:37 < kanzure> your search just missed that
16:37 < brownies> kanzure: well, it's better than your search, you lazy fuck, which was "ask in IRC" -_-
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16:38 < brownies> heh, sorry... but i'll go out on a limb and claim that 100% accuracy is likely not a reasonable goal for any sort of quick search
16:38 < kanzure> i seem to recall some genius telling me about fibonacci search
16:38 < kanzure> true
16:38 < brownies> true, i did nail fibonacci search =D
16:40 < brownies> kanzure: btw what's the deal with the UAV market?
16:40 < brownies> i have this nagging feeling i can make UAVs for way cheaper than current market price, is that just me?
16:40 < kanzure> i haven't been keeping track of how much the military pays
16:41 < brownies> i looked up prices for retail/hobbyist UAVs a little while ago, i assume it's similar order of magnitude
16:41 < kanzure> what was the hobbyist pricing?
16:42 < brownies> $10K each, give or take
16:42 < kanzure> hmmm. interesting.
16:45 < nsh> the military pays about 200% of what it costs, on point of principle
16:46 < brownies> "costs" = "costs to build" or "costs" = "costs at retail" ?
16:47 < nsh> most things the military uses aren't available on retail
16:47 < nsh> "Despite the focus and effort dedicated towards reform in the past fifty years, important systemic issues remain unchanged, implying strongly that the acquisition process has a number of built-in, even cultural, aspects that resist change," Fox writes. "These include an irregular and erratic flow of weapons systems appropriations; the very nature of cutting-edge, highly risky research and development; an ill-informed requirements process that virtually
16:47 < nsh>  mandates changes to contracts as requirements are added or changed; and financial incentives that reward lowball contractor bids and provide negative sanctions for failing to spend all the allocated funds."
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17:40 < Steel2> Hmm
17:40 < Steel2> I like this diet
17:48 < kanzure> https://github.com/kurttomlinson/oProject
17:50 < kanzure> https://github.com/kurttomlinson/oProject
17:50 < kanzure> oops
17:50 < kanzure> so it seems this guy insists that xml is the way to go
17:50 < kanzure> for open source hardware packages
17:51 < kanzure> https://github.com/partkeepr/PartKeepr
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17:59 < nsh> Steel2, what diet?
17:59 < Steel2> intermittent fasting
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18:00 < jrayhawk> fwiw cyclic ketosis and protein fasting works out better for me than full fasting
18:00 < kanzure> note that jrayhawk is a horse
18:01 < kanzure> wait, no, i got this mixed up
18:02 < jrayhawk> and i suppose it's all secondary to the inflammatory side
18:02 < jrayhawk> beh
18:02 < nsh> jrayhawk, how do you define "works"?
18:03 < nsh> what are the objectives?
18:03 < jrayhawk> I am more functional. Full fasting done on a regular basis downregulates the thyroid, and there's a host of problems associated with that.
18:04 < nsh> by why fast in the first place?
18:04 < nsh> other than lifespan extension and general health
18:04 < jrayhawk> Restoring insulin sensitivity, forcing autophagy, increasing WAT mobilization and ketone adaptation.
18:05 < jrayhawk> The only evidence that any life extension occurs is in rodent models, which strike me as fairly useless.
18:05 < nsh> there's anecdotal evidence
18:07 < nsh> what's WAT mobilisation/
18:07 < nsh> ?
18:07 < jrayhawk> white adipose tissue
18:09 < strangewarp> hmm. What sort of fasting schedule are you following? I've been considering ketosis-fasting, myself..
18:09 < Steel2> jrayhawk: I don't do full fasting
18:09 < Steel2> I do 16/8
18:09 < nsh> 16 what to 8 what?
18:09 < nsh> days not eating?
18:09 < Steel2> 16 hours fasting, 8 hours eating
18:09 < nsh> oh right
18:09 < nsh> was gonna say..
18:10 < Steel2> no, I actively weightlift a lot
18:10 < Steel2> haha
18:10  * nsh smiles
18:11 < jrayhawk> FWIW I have heard multiple reports that it's possible to eat a basically unlimited amount of calories from raw beef in a sitting, in case you're having trouble packing a bodybuilder's diet into a compressed eating window
18:11 < jrayhawk> i have not actually tried this myself
18:11 < Steel2> I'm not having trouble :V
18:11 < Steel2> also my 'hueg meal' on lifting days is only 2k calories
18:11 < Steel2> because I'm a short dude
18:11 < nsh> lol
18:12 < jrayhawk> that's a worrying number
18:12 < nsh> i eat 2k calories between meals
18:12 < nsh> probably, i don't actually know what the calorie content of food is because i'm not american and healthy
18:12 < Steel2> jrayhawk: in what way?
18:12 < Steel2> nsh: I enjoy food, so I track everything I eat
18:13 < Steel2> plus I'm trying to pin down my BMR
18:13 < nmz787> jrayhawk: what's your method ?
18:13 < Steel2> also breakfast has issues if you're already a lean dude
18:13 < nmz787> i'm pretty sure i take in under 3k cal/day
18:13 < jrayhawk> Method for which?
18:13 < nmz787> Steel2: breakfast issue for lean men?
18:13 < nmz787> jrayhawk: fasting
18:14 < Steel2> nmz: for lean people in general
18:14 < Steel2> nmz: how much do you lift?
18:14 < kanzure> this just looks like a disaster: http://www.oshwa.org/2012/08/02/an-important-question-on-the-open-source-hardware-mark/
18:14 < nmz787> like 2/7 days you don't eat carbs, and a diff 2 days you don't eat aminos? and the other 3 days are normal?
18:14 < kanzure> osi sent them a letter, and then they failed to reply in time
18:15 < Steel2> http://www.leangains.com/2012/06/why-does-breakfast-make-me-hungry.html citations at bottom
18:15 < nmz787> Steel2: I don't lift much these days, but I could be up to 1/2 my body weight in a week or two easily
18:15 < nmz787> I adapt quickly
18:15 < Steel2> for which lift
18:15 < Steel2> O_o
18:15 < nmz787> which also means i lose it fast
18:15 < nmz787> oh just benching
18:16 < jrayhawk> Well, I'll say first of all that the benefits of meal timing are marginal compared to anti-inflammatory eating and that you should really be experimenting with the latter before the former, but I typically do something like two weeks of ketosis four times a year, and >18 hour protein fasts maybe once or twice a month, mostly by circumstance.
18:16 < nmz787> but even for biceps i don't think i've ever gone over 30lbs free weight in a single arm
18:16 < Steel2> err, there are huge benefits to eating most of your meal right after lifting
18:16 < Steel2> nmz: Ah, yeah, I'm just outside the competitive range
18:16 < strangewarp> jrayhawk: Hmm.. interesting
18:17 < nmz787> Steel2: I'm just outside the totally lazy slob range :P
18:17 < Steel2> basically, if I'm going to go spend an hour doing olympic lifts, I had better provide some fucking carbs afterward haha
18:17 < nmz787> not really, I've never been one to gain weight much
18:18 < nmz787> i like working with my body more than i like working out in a gym
18:18 < nmz787> but yeah thinking of DNA and shit isn't too muscle-dependent
18:19 < Steel2> eh, I do it all
18:19 < Steel2> dance, lift, etc.
18:20 < jrayhawk> oh yeah, nmz787, did you guys ever hear back from intel
18:20 < nmz787> there's a planet fitness a few mins walk from where i'm living in NYC, but i heard it's super crowded
18:20 < nmz787> but $10/month... haven't been, mainly just been a hermit here so far
18:20 < Steel2> lol planet fitness
18:20 < Steel2> I follow the great musclegod Brodin
18:21 < nmz787> jrayhawk: she heard today that 'they're very interested' but that HR is really slow and they'll let her know next week
18:21 < jrayhawk> huh, that's cool
18:21 < kanzure> hr will never let you know
18:21 < nmz787> bought my gf climbing shoes last weekend, so planning to go to the climbing gym in the next day or two
18:21 < strangewarp> I just ate half a pint of ice cream... suppose I'll count that as a meal, and hold off on eating for a while ;)
18:21  * strangewarp must.. stay under.. 1800 cals/day
18:22 < nmz787> kanzure: nah the hiring manager talks to them :P
18:22 < jrayhawk> i do not think caloric restriction is a good idea unless you're a figure competitor
18:22 < nmz787> jrayhawk: i disagree, it also really depends on the type of 'calories'
18:22 < strangewarp> jrayhawk: Trying to stay musician-skinny, yeah
18:22 < Steel2> jray: 16/8 is fine
18:23 < nmz787> in the case of ice cream, 'only' about 1/2 of those are hitting you right away
18:23 < kanzure> nmz787: he said "not"
18:23 < nmz787> kanzure: yeah i think it's a good idea sometimes
18:24 < jrayhawk> or a weight-based competition, which i suppose most martial arts are, these days
18:24 < nmz787> like if all you have available is white bread and candy... better to starve til you get something more real
18:24 < nmz787> er substantial
18:24 < jrayhawk> i am all for bad calorie restriction, but not calorie restriction
18:24 < nsh> kanzure, why is the OSI being a dick about a stupid logo?
18:25 < kanzure> nsh: trademark law requires them to maintain their trademark
18:25 < nmz787> if you're trying to lose weight, i think calorie restriction is a good idea
18:25 < kanzure> nsh: i don't think they're being a dick
18:25 < nsh> kanzure, can they not license it?
18:25 < nmz787> as long as you keep up with minerals and vitamins and some aminos
18:25 < kanzure> honestly the dickish party here seems to be oshwa
18:25 < kanzure> yes they can license it
18:25 < kanzure> they sent a license to oshwa
18:25 < Steel2> leangains is actually about leangains, haha
18:25 < nsh> oh
18:25 < kanzure> and oshwa ignored it
18:25 < Steel2> ie getting bigger, but staying lean
18:25 < nsh> okay, oshwa are dicks then
18:25 < nsh> it's still a storm in a meh-cup
18:25 < kanzure> nsh: oshwa has a history of being like this
18:26 < nsh> ok
18:26 < jrayhawk> if you eat under your hunger level, your body sees this as a stress. the body determines optimal fat homeostasis based upon stresses. people who diet with caloric restriction typically bounce back to a place worse than they started.
18:26 < jrayhawk> you should be working with your body to reduce fat, not against it
18:27 < strangewarp> Yeah, luckily if I eat lightly-CR meals, my body is satisfied with them; I just get the occasional extreme sweets craving, which throws a wrench in things once in a while
18:27 < nmz787> so if you calorie restrict but think you're at your hunger level, no stress?
18:27 < jrayhawk> It's not really caloric restriction if you eat to satiety.
18:27 < nsh> kanzure, dave vandenbout's solution seems fine
18:27 < strangewarp> So this is about the definition of CR, and not the number of calories, then?
18:28 < nmz787> i thought CR was based on kj/kg/day vs 'feeling satiated'
18:28 < nsh> body is bit more complex than a ratio
18:28 < Steel2> jrayhawk, I'm not eating under my hunger level
18:28 < Steel2> I'm simply getting all my nutrition in a window
18:28 < jrayhawk> Yeah, I'm not that concerned about the compressed eating window.
18:29 < jrayhawk> 2000 is pretty low unless you're, like, a hundred pounds, though.
18:29 < Steel2> not really
18:29 < Steel2> I'm 165
18:29 < nmz787> so are bulemics and anorexics NOT calorie restricting? B/C they are at their level of satiety?
18:29 < jrayhawk> But hey, I guess not every calorie is equal. If most of it comes from MCTs, you're probably fine.
18:29 < Steel2> eating too much over 2000 (if I"m not lifting) makes me gain weight
18:29 < Steel2> if I AM lifting more like 2400, tops
18:29 < jrayhawk> Haha bulemics and anorexics do NOT eat to satiety.
18:29 < nsh> nmz787, psychological satiety is not somatic satiety
18:30 < nsh> bulemics do, they just lose a lot of it afterward
18:30 < nmz787> i think people def process molecules differently to call all energy input being used equally amongst everyone
18:31 < nmz787> do diabetics who don't convert glucose to fat expel glucose?
18:32 < jrayhawk> No, typically they die.
18:32 < jrayhawk> unless they carefully avoid glucose.
18:32 < jrayhawk> Glucose is toxic; fat is the biggest glucose capacitor the body has.
18:33 < jrayhawk> If the fat gets insulin resistant and you're still intaking glucose, you better exercise like a motherfucker or else you're dead.
18:33 < jrayhawk> Specifically glycogen-demanding exercise.
18:33 < nmz787> well obv people don't die immediately of glucose overage... they get poisoned sure, if it's really acute they may go into shock and die
18:33 < nmz787> but i'm saying toxic level, not coma
18:35 < jrayhawk> It's stored in the liver or in the muscle, or used metabolicly in various tissues, but it isn't expelled until after it's used.
18:36 < nmz787> hmm
18:36 < nsh> it's like alcohol that you can't piss out
18:36 < nsh> and doesn't get you so fun-drunk
18:36 < jrayhawk> Haha, that's a good analogy.
18:37 < nsh> there was some talk that made it
18:37 < nsh> i think the thesis was "fructose is killing you"
18:37 < jrayhawk> ugh, lustig
18:37 < nsh> ah, you know of it
18:38 < nsh> he seemed a bit evangelical
18:38 < jrayhawk> I like the overall message for lots of other reasons, but his justifications are mostly wrong.
18:38  * nsh nods
18:38 < nsh> i don't know much biochemistry
18:38 < nsh> or physiology
18:38  * kanzure shoes away the philosopher
18:39 < jrayhawk> fructose being a "dangerously efficient" substrate for denovolipogenesis is based on rodent models that have long been disproven for humans
18:39 < jrayhawk> and claiming that alcohol is a carbohydrate is just embarassing
18:39 < jrayhawk> alkyl groups are not carboxyl groups
18:40 < nsh> can you not derive energy from alcohol?
18:40 < jrayhawk> you can, but the energy pathway is different
18:40 < jrayhawk> ketone bodies aren't carbohydrates either!
18:40 < nsh> ok
18:42 < jrayhawk> but yes, fructose throws off a lot of inflammatory cytokines and takes a lot of chemical machinery and undermines satiety signalling and is generally a bad idea to eat a lot of
18:42 < Steel2> @jray: there is quite a bit of science behind IF tho, yeh.
18:42 < jrayhawk> do not chug agave nectar
18:45 < jrayhawk> that said, if you really like ketosis, fructose has the interesting quality in that it's unmetabolizable by anything but the liver and will go straight to liver glycogen stores without metabolic side effect up until those stores are full
18:46 < jrayhawk> so your brain and liver can take it easy while the rest of your body remains fully keto-adapted
18:50 < kanzure> this model really confuses me: http://goodwillion.com/dashboard
18:50 < kanzure> so now i have to pay $50 to speak with christine peterson?
18:50 < kanzure> why wont she talk to me for free anymore?
18:51 < nmz787> Steel2: IF?
18:51 < Steel2> intermittent fasting
18:52 < nmz787> kanzure: christina ?
18:52 < nmz787> er christine?
18:52 < kanzure> nmz787: chris peterson runs foresight institute
18:53 < kanzure> (but has been degenerating into lousy dating advice/life extension advice topics)
18:53 < nmz787> whats foresight? can't you just email her
18:53 < nmz787> ?
18:53 < kanzure> yeah i can email her
18:53 < kanzure> but i don't get why i would pay for a conversation
18:53 < jrayhawk> Steel2: Yeah, and, like I said, I like the benefits of IF, I can just get them with less inconvenience elsewhere.
18:54 < Steel2> ah, it's very convenient for me
18:54 < Steel2> don't eat until after I work out
18:54 < Steel2> I work out at lunchtime
18:54 < jrayhawk> Though, out of curiousity, why are you doing weightlifting if you don't want to gain muscle mass?
18:54 < kanzure> nmz787: foresight institute is a nanotech non-profit.. they funded things like the nanofactory animation video
18:54 < kanzure> nmz787: http://foresight.org/
18:54 < Steel2> I do want to gain muscle mass, but I want lean gains
18:54 < Steel2> I want to lose weight
18:54 < Steel2> I'm already at ~12-13% bf
18:55 < jrayhawk> Okay, well, it's a lot easier to *either* gain muscle mass *or* reduce fat.
18:55 < nmz787> yeah that goodwillion is weird
18:55 < Steel2> that's the entire point of leangains, jray
18:55 < Steel2> lol
18:56 < jrayhawk> Yes, well, taking a year to accomplish what could be done in three months just seems stupid.
18:56 < kanzure> Steel2: jr<tab>
18:56 < Steel2> this is not my first time round the block of lifting, man.
18:57 < nmz787> Steel2: what is leangains?
18:57 < jrayhawk> Well, have fun I guess. It's an interesting experiment that I've seen lots of other people try to do.
18:57 < nmz787> sounds like a trademark
18:57 < Steel2> www.leangains.com
18:57 < Steel2> it backs up all its science, etc.
18:57 < Steel2> another good site (mod of /r/supplements and /r/fitness) is www.silverhydra.com
19:02 < nmz787> " Below is the EPA component, Eicosapentaenoic Acid.Its about as straight as Gay Pride"
19:02 < nmz787> lol
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19:05 < kanzure> random diet advice websites are the worst
19:06 < Steel2> this isn't really random, if you have issues with his science he'd love to hear from you
19:07 < jrayhawk> leangains is actually pretty high up there in terms of reputability
19:07 < kanzure> just give me a list of papers to read
19:07 < Steel2> he has a list at the bottom of every article
19:07 < nmz787> one points to this http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/15/4/1377.abstract
19:08 < nmz787> from the hydra site
19:08 < kanzure> no download link on all those?
19:08  * kanzure grumbles
19:08 < Steel2> also, kanz have you seen examine's page for supplements?
19:08 < kanzure> no
19:08 < Steel2> run by sh, who (while he slightly dumbs it down for public consumption), knows his shit
19:08 < nsh> moving things about your muscles isn't that interesting really
19:08 < nmz787> but I don't get how he easily makes the statement that links to that paper "The fatty acids you eat are the fatty acids stored in your fat tissue. If you eat fish oil, you store fish oils. If you eat CLA, you store CLA. You are what you eat in this regard."
19:09 < nsh> if people put as much thought and effort into coordination and finesse as they do into strength, we'd see some improvements to the human condition
19:09 < jrayhawk> "moving things about your muscles" ?
19:09 < Steel2> http://examine.com/supplements/Piracetam/ etc.
19:09 < nsh> jrayhawk, i mean lifting
19:09 < Steel2> nsh: define coordination and finesse
19:09 < nsh> Steel2, playing table-tennis
19:09 < jrayhawk> muscle mass determines health outcomes in hospitalizations
19:09 < jrayhawk> more than basically any other variable
19:09 < Steel2> I dance on top of weightlifting, does that count?
19:09 < nmz787> nsh: table tennis is boring
19:09 < nsh> Steel2, sure
19:09 < nsh> nmz787, ymmv
19:10 < Steel2> powerlifting takes TONS of finesse
19:10 < jrayhawk> weightlifting *is* an improvement in the human condition.
19:10 < Steel2> olympic lifting takes tons of speed
19:10 < nmz787> reworking an engine requires finesse and strength
19:10 < nsh> ok, i retract
19:10 < nmz787> rebulding/etc
19:10 < nmz787> or hang gliding, that probably takes finesse
19:10 < nsh> not sure about the transferability of the attained skillsets though
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19:11 < nsh> may have no leg to stand on here though
19:11 < nsh> brb, sammich
19:12 < jrayhawk> Basal strength is freakin' important to almost any physical activity. There are limits, of course; absolute strength will undermine relative strength, but very few people get to that side of the bell curve.
19:14 < nmz787> Clin Invest. 2011 Jun;121(6):2094-101. doi: 10.1172/JCI45887. Epub 2011 Jun 1.Adipose tissue remodeling and obesity.Sun K, Kusminski CM, Scherer PE.
19:14 < nmz787> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21633177
19:16 < jrayhawk> nmz787: fun fact about obesity: linoleic acid-stuffed WAT throws off cytokines that cause leptin resistance
19:17 < jrayhawk> which is to say, being obese undermines satiety and insulin sensitivity
19:17 < jrayhawk> which in turn causes obesity
19:17 < nsh> not surprising
19:17 < nsh> i wonder if we've ever had the opportunity, evolutionarily, to consume so much
19:17 < nsh> it may be a novel situation
19:18 < Steel2> that's also part of what IF is based off of
19:18 < Steel2> though this is a bit of broscience, just like paleo
19:18 < Steel2> the concept that we weren't able to eat all day long for most of human history. you gathered, then ate (more or less)
19:18 < jrayhawk> We've never had to work so little for it, certainly, but fruit trees are a good example of prehistoric caloric bonanzas
19:19 < nsh> true
19:19 < foucist> good morning folks
19:19 < nsh> moin
19:20 < nmz787> this is the first time in human history that poor people have been obese
19:20 < nmz787> i.e. the last 50 years of people
19:20 < foucist> nah, people didn't really start getting fat till the 90s
19:20 < nsh> solyent green will fix everything
19:20 < foucist> maybe mid-80s
19:20 < foucist> 25 years at the most
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19:23 < nmz787> well they're past age 50 now
19:23 < nsh> don't follow
19:31 < nmz787> nsh:http://pdfpirate.org/storage/remove_restrictions/82701825-f638-413f-a38e-cb761d768579/pdfpirate.org_unlocked.pdf
19:32 < nmz787> that's the extracting questions PDF unlocked
19:33 < nsh> still no text, can you read it?
19:34 < nmz787> yeah, via copy-paste into google translate
19:34 < nmz787> lemme put it online
19:34 < nsh> ah, it's not in english
19:34 < nsh> ok
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19:35 < nmz787> kanzure how do i add a new page to ikiwiki?
19:35 < kanzure> i am unhappy that i don't own pdfpirate.org
19:35 < kanzure> nmz787: from the command line, just make a new file and then do "git add blah.txt"
19:35 < nsh> oh, the new mars rover has a sky-crane
19:36 < nsh> i wonder what dennett thinks
19:36 < kanzure> on the wiki, you can make a link with [[blah]] and then click it, or you can click 'edit' on an existing page, and then change the url to what you want..
19:36 < jrayhawk> From the web, you can either link to it and then click that link to edit, or you can edit anything and edit the URL bar to change what you're editing
19:36 < jrayhawk> oh sure beat me
19:36 < jrayhawk> see if i care
19:36 < jrayhawk> mister fancypants and his 150 wpm
19:36 < kanzure> 190 wpm >:(
19:36 < kanzure> i didn't go to evil typing school for nothing
19:37 < jrayhawk> http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=kanzure
19:37 < jrayhawk> 150 :mad:
19:37 < nsh> what do you type in these races?
19:37 < nsh> hopefully it's some OCR or something else useful
19:37 < kanzure> haha nope
19:37 < nsh> pft
19:37 < nsh> how indulgent
19:37 < kanzure> the paragraphs are listed on that page
19:38 < kanzure> and yes it's incredibly self-indulgent
19:38  * nsh steganographises them and wins lots
19:38 < kanzure> nsh: they make you do a captcha when you have typed 40% faster than your previous races
19:38 < kanzure> and the captcha is some poorly scanned image
19:38 < nsh> ah
19:39 < nsh> man, all this talk of body stuff has made me really hungry
19:39 < nsh> that or it's just the time elapsed since i last ate
19:39 < nsh> hard to tell sometimes
19:39 < jrayhawk> chug coconut oil
19:39 < jrayhawk> coconuts solve everything
19:39 < jrayhawk> EVERYTHING
19:39 < Steel2> heh
19:39 < Steel2> I last ate at
19:39 < Steel2> uh
19:39 < Steel2> 7:36
19:39 < Steel2> I track all this >_>
19:40 < kanzure> Steel2: your tracking is weak! http://fennetic.net/sleep/
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19:40 < Steel2> tracking diff data at the moment
19:41 < kanzure> it's not sleep data
19:41 < nmz787> hmm this is a PITA
19:42 < nmz787> numbers in the table are coming out in reverse order
19:42 < Steel2> date, workout, morning weigh on scale #1, morning weigh on scale #2, evening weigh on scale #1, evening weigh on scale #2, calories eaten, protein in g/%, fat in g/%, carbs in g/%, supplementation, tracking methods (Fitocracy, myfitnesspal), end of previous day's fast, start of this day's fast, window period length, amount of time fasted
19:42 < kanzure> i suggest an html table
19:43 < kanzure> oh geeze you use fitocracy
19:43 < kanzure> i didn't know people actually used that
19:43 < Steel2> a lot of people do in the heavier lifting community
19:43 < kanzure> do you also use fitfu..zoo..fitfoo..blah
19:43 < kanzure> they are all terrible apps
19:43 < Steel2> fitocracy has a lot of pre-listed exercises which is why it's nice
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19:50 < Steel2> any baltimore types in here?
19:51 < nmz787> what type are they?
19:51 < Steel2> living in that area I meant :P
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19:52 < nmz787> ic
19:58 < nsh> there's a song about baltimore i've had in my head recently
19:59 < nsh> oh john waters
20:01 < nsh> i mean randy newman
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20:24 < skorket> what's your beef with the air quality egg?
20:25 < yashgaroth> who, me?
20:25 < skorket> anyone
20:28 < nsh> there's an egg that makes quality air?
20:28 < yashgaroth> no no the air quality makes the egg
20:28 < nsh> ahhh, so that's how it began
20:29 < nsh> on a cryptotangentially related note
20:30 < nsh> how do you make minibreadsticks taste like
20:30 < nsh> something
20:30 < nsh> i tried olive oil and balsamic, but it's hard to incorporate
20:30 < nsh> no capillary action
20:31 < yashgaroth> was gonna say salt but that's be even harder
20:31 < nsh> could mash them up a bit
20:31 < nsh> but at that level of effort i could probably just utilise some actual food ingredients to make tasty
20:31 < nsh> difficult one
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20:48 < delinquentme_> nsh, garlic basil butter salt
20:48 < delinquentme_> ?
20:50 < nsh> mmm, don't know that we have the first two
20:50 < nsh> probably though
20:50 < nsh> i haven't cooked here yet
20:50 < nsh> or, since some other year
20:51 < delinquentme_> i mean if you've got any spices you might just toss them on :D
20:51 < delinquentme_> "italian seasonsing" :P
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20:55 < nsh> it's moot now because i ate them all
20:55 < nsh> and i didn't even have to stand up
20:59 < delinquentme_> haha
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 03 00:00:27 2012