--- Log opened Tue Sep 04 00:00:16 2012
00:00 < Mokstar> that'd be neat
00:00 < Mokstar> wouldn't the storage be a bit expensive?
00:00 < kanzure> i can pay it
00:01 < kanzure> at most it's like 50 TB of papers
00:01 < Mokstar> I've always wanted to build a distributed database that operates similar to a bitcoin blockchain, but trims itself
00:01 < kanzure> which is sorta like having an expensive fancy car hobby
00:01 < Mokstar> yeah, that's doable
00:01 < foucist> kanzure: what do you mean?  is hplusroadmap a website?!?!?!?  :P
00:02 < foucist> i've never been to it..  i don't think i shall ever! muwahaha
00:02 < kanzure> no i meant the "pay college students for access" scheme
00:03 < Mokstar> well, are the papers compressed?
00:03 < Mokstar> duh, I guess
00:03 < kanzure> Mokstar: my 50 TB calculation is assuming 50 million papers at an average of 1 MB (so, basic pdf)
00:03 < kanzure> some papers are just image scans and are multiple megabytes, but mostly they are <1 MB if they are just text and one or two pics
00:04 < Mokstar> are you gonna try to index the content?
00:04 < kanzure> yes
00:04 < kanzure> btw we already have like 80 different scraper formats
00:04 < kanzure> delinquentme went and published it on hacker news a few months ago -_- but it was the broken version :P
00:04 < Mokstar> do you have a web service?
00:04 < Mokstar> web API
00:04 < kanzure> it is a web service.
00:04 < kanzure> no it's not public right now :(
00:05 < Mokstar> I'm working on embedding X3D models into static pages, and the controls of it
00:05 < kanzure> right now the limiting factor is ezproxy accounts :P
00:05 < Mokstar> and had the thought of a rotating brain with selectable regions that you could associate, use as search terms, for relevant papers
00:05 < kanzure> i'm sure your wife would share her account/access with me if i asked nicely, but would you ask her if she would be willing to be paid to share it?
00:05 < Mokstar> hehehe, sure!
00:06 < kanzure> and if so, what does she think a fair price is?
00:06 < kanzure> i'm sure the market would determine that
00:06 < Mokstar> I dunno
00:06 < kanzure> but it might be anything from "Enough to pay my dumb student debt" to "$5/mo"
00:06 < Mokstar> hah! I think we're at $20k now :p
00:07 < kanzure> 500 people x $10/mo on one account => a reasonable dent in $20k
00:07 < Mokstar> wow
00:07 < kanzure> right?
00:07 < Mokstar> hmm
00:08 < Mokstar> think they'd notice?
00:08 < kanzure> yes
00:08 < Mokstar> hahah
00:08 < kanzure> i know they do notice
00:08 < kanzure> but.. all previous cases have been something like "it was posted publicly"
00:08 < joshcryer> how so? been caught before?
00:08 < Mokstar> do they cut people off?
00:08 < kanzure> which could mean anything.. maybe they noticed 1 person using it, or maybe they noticed 2000 people using it
00:08 < kanzure> yes they cut people off when they notice abuse
00:08 < kanzure> but the fun part is finding that limit ;)
00:08 < joshcryer> you would have to have a mechanism so that only 1 ip at a time uses the system
00:08 < kanzure> no that's not important
00:08 < kanzure> they aren't detecting simultaneous users
00:08 < joshcryer> premium accounts would be personal VPN access
00:09 < joshcryer> oh
00:09 < kanzure> joshcryer: it's not a vpn
00:09 < Mokstar> I could analyze their system
00:09 < kanzure> it's usually OCLC's ezproxy software, which is just an http thing
00:09 < kanzure> eg http://sciencedirect.ezproxy.lib.utexas.edu:2048/myarticle.pdf
00:09 < joshcryer> how do you know it's not per ip?
00:10 < kanzure> because the whole point is to allow off-campus access
00:10 < joshcryer> yeah, but one account = one user = one ip
00:10 < kanzure> ezproxy is proprietary software and doesn't have more than one or two programmers working on it
00:11 < kanzure> i've disassembled it a bit and looked through it - it's not that sophisticated
00:11 < joshcryer> fascinating
00:11 < joshcryer> the project is easier then than it seems
00:11 < kanzure> what happens is that the librarians get notified by the publishers or something, and they are like "hmmmm" and then pop the user's account gets reset
00:11 < kanzure> s/librarians/sysadmins
00:11 < kanzure> and, if the user is intentionally giving out access, that's easy to fix.. just stop paying that college student
00:12 < joshcryer> I assume then that it's based more on level of "researching" / "downloading" than IP
00:12 < kanzure> yes
00:12 < joshcryer> OK, that makes sense
00:12 < kanzure> if all of this activity is centralized through my server i could collect data to determine what these limits are
00:12 < kanzure> i bet on different campuses it's different
00:12 < joshcryer> clever
00:12 < kanzure> obviously 1M papers/day through 1 account shouldn't be allowed
00:12 < kanzure> but... probably a few thousand will be okay
00:13 < Mokstar> "I'm analyzing them for statistics!"
00:13 < Mokstar> "I'm mapping references and analyzing word count and sentence length relationships!"
00:13 < kanzure> anywho it would be easy to collect data like, "oh hm, after 200 people logged into accounts from MIT, they get reset. let's put the limit at 200 people-ip for MIT access."
00:16 < kanzure> so uh. which ones of youse are students?
00:26 < Mokstar> I was contemplating going back to school
00:26 < kanzure> until you reailzed how awful it would be?
00:27 < Mokstar> until I realized I couldn't quit my day job :p
00:28 < kanzure> archels: would you sell?
00:28 < Mokstar> hopefully I'll be able to hang on to enough neuroplasticity by the time I don't need to work for the man anymore
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00:32 < joshcryer> Mokstar, good decision, who wants student debt ;P
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02:02 < archels> kanzure: nein, don't want to end up like Aaron Swartz.
02:03 < archels> I still have paper access through my old university because I am member of a radio amateur club; perhaps you can find some sort of student's association to sponsor and they will give you ssh access on one of their boxen?
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07:03 < nmz787> kanzure: ping
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07:16 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: you have a wireless charging circuit? How big is it?
07:16 < ThomasEgi> consists of 2 parts
07:16 < ThomasEgi> the base station
07:16 < ThomasEgi> and the receiver
07:17 < ThomasEgi> it is as small as you can get the parts for. power output will drop with decreasing size tho
07:17 < ThomasEgi> it's pretty simple. just 2 LC circuits
07:22 < nmz787> oh, so no ICs?
07:22 < nmz787> i've seen some ICs
07:22 < nmz787> but I guess they were tuned really well or something
07:22 < nmz787> vs just using LC
07:23 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: are you an EE
07:23 < nmz787> ?
07:23 < nmz787> this was it http://www.powercastco.com/
07:24 < nmz787> I would like a wireless power receiver, coupled with a wireless transmitter that is modulated by the output of a photodiode/phototransistor/photoresistor
07:25 < ThomasEgi> i am partly EE. more a mix between EE, clasicall mechanical engineering and informatics
07:26 < nmz787> cool
07:26 < ThomasEgi> of course there are ic's that do the task. some are very convenient
07:26 < nmz787> and the whole package would be autoclavable
07:26 < nmz787> so 130-150 degrees C
07:27 < nmz787> oh I guess autovlave is technically 121 C
07:27 < ThomasEgi> that chip you linked works in the MHz range. which is pretty ok, but hard to work with unless you have the lab equipment or good simulation tools at hand
07:27 < nmz787> powercast told me this when I asked about autoclaving their IC "The encapsulation lid is plastic and the components are rated to 85C.  PCB reflow can be a lot hotter, but it is only for a short time.Can you tell me more about your application"
07:28 < ThomasEgi> the LC sollution works at 128kHz. equipment for tuning those is really cheap and readily available. there are also ready to use IC's for that frequency that have selftuning capability
07:29 < ThomasEgi> like the one from Texas Instruments. it also comes with a lithium-batter management ciruit and RFID frontend.
07:30 < nmz787> hmm
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07:30 < ThomasEgi> bidirectional rfid btw.
07:31 < nmz787> i think my requirement doesn't need a battery, if operations could be sustained with just wireless power on all the time
07:31 < ThomasEgi> so that one tiny chip only requires a coil and a cap as external components. and you get power, battery management and bidirectional communication.
07:31 < nmz787> but yeah i want to make it autoclavable, which I think sets this problem into a very unique space
07:31 < ThomasEgi> wirless power has a very short range.
07:31 < nmz787> RFID as comms?
07:31 < nmz787> or just as ID?
07:33 < ThomasEgi> as communication
07:33 < ThomasEgi> it works both ways
07:35 < ThomasEgi> the texas instruments chip has a storage temperature of 125 degrees
07:35 < ThomasEgi> specified as one cycle up to 1000h
07:37 < ThomasEgi> peak temp of the solder profile is 260 degrees C
07:38 < ThomasEgi> how long would autoclaving take?
07:40 < nmz787> hmm
07:40 < nmz787> i think 20 mins,  but maybe up to 40
07:41 < nmz787> but the device would likely get autoclaved after every use, so maybe once a day
07:44 < ThomasEgi> hm... that... probably won't be too good
07:44 < ThomasEgi> what kind of device would that be?
07:44 < nmz787> wireless autoclavable photosensor
07:45 < nmz787> so it reports the light level
07:45 < nmz787> and it would something like a magnetic stir-bar
07:45 < ThomasEgi> hm..
07:46 < nmz787> with a Red LED on the side of the flask being stirred... the device would report the turbidity
07:46 < nmz787> this was actually asked for by Tom Knight, of MIT
07:46 < nmz787> years ago on DIYbio
07:47 < ThomasEgi> i would highly recommend to just use a PTFE coated platinum temperature sensor for that
07:47 < ThomasEgi> oh wait light sensor
07:47 < ThomasEgi> not photo.
07:47 < nmz787> hmm?
07:47 < nmz787> light != photo ???
07:48 < ThomasEgi> for a split of a second i got it mixed up with temperatures
07:48 < ThomasEgi> nah. i'd recommend something different
07:49 < ThomasEgi> like 2 fibre-optics,
07:49 < ThomasEgi> with a gap for the liquid to go in
07:49 < nmz787> yeah, i think that opens up contamination a bit more
07:49 < nmz787> just having the wires stick through a cap or stopper
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07:50 < ThomasEgi> at least it wouldn't have any semiconductors in a part that requires autoclaving
07:51 < ThomasEgi> if it really has to be something like a stirring bar. i'd rather recommend to avoid all semiconductors if possible.
07:51 < ThomasEgi> maybe working a reflecting mirror or so.
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07:51 < ThomasEgi> maybe a prism-like mirror or so.
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07:52 < ThomasEgi> with multiple light sensors around your flask you could also calculate the ammount of light scattered and reflected more precisely
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07:53 < nmz787> hmm
07:53 < ThomasEgi> or.. not using any kind of whatever inside the containment vessel
07:53 < nmz787> stirbar + mirror does sound easy
07:53 < ThomasEgi> and just work with transmitting and reflected light
07:53 < nmz787> the path length for the light would just effectively be doubled
07:54 < ThomasEgi> if you use AC modulated light, you can easily avoid DC errors from daylight/environmental light
07:54 < chris_99> stirbar + mirror, whatcha making?
07:54 < ThomasEgi> with multiple sensors yu should be able to get a number of data points which you could match against a physical model
07:54 < nmz787> growth sensor... aka turbidostat
07:54 < nmz787> aka optical density sensor
07:55 < ThomasEgi> with no requirement for autoclaving, probably higher accuracy. and a whole lot easier and cheaper to build
07:55 < chris_99> oh interesting
07:55 < nmz787> yeah the old fashioned method is to use a side-arm flask, and every so often take the flask off the stirrer and tip some liquid into the sidearm, then stick the side-arm (about the size of a test tube) into a spectrometer
07:55 < ThomasEgi> not only could you get the ammount of light that travels through  but also the one that gets scattered sideways. and the overall tranmsittance of light
07:56 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: well the stirbar-mirror would still need autoclaved
07:56 < ThomasEgi> if you don't use one.
07:56 < ThomasEgi> i mean i don't know your flasks
07:56 < ThomasEgi> you could aswell use a static mirror.
07:56 < ThomasEgi> but hey. that's a mechanical thing
07:56 < ThomasEgi> you can heat it until it melts
07:56 < ThomasEgi> should be no big deal
07:56 < nmz787> yeah
07:57 < ThomasEgi> doesnt even need to be rotating. just a small mirror or so. maybe a polished metal plate molded in glass or so
07:59 < ThomasEgi> you know how blood oxymeters work?
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08:00 < ThomasEgi> that could be adapted to work in a simmilar way. to messure the ratio between reflected ,transmitted and otherwise scattered  light i guess
08:01 < nmz787> hmm
08:01 < nmz787> sortof, but that's a chromatic shift i though
08:01 < nmz787> coupled with the ratio
08:02 < ThomasEgi> well it wouldnt work exactly like blood oxymeters
08:02 < ThomasEgi> but simmilar
08:05 < ThomasEgi> ah. short check on how it usualy gets messured. with 2 messurements. once tre transmitting part. once the light that scatters off 90°
08:06 < ThomasEgi> usualy with infrared light
08:06 < ThomasEgi> doesnt sound very hard to build
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08:42 < kanzure> nmz787: pong
08:44 < nmz787> hey
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09:38 < chris_99> nmz787, seen this 'While most turbidostats use a spectrophotometer/turbidometer to measure the optical density for control purpose'
09:39 < nmz787> hmm?
09:39 < chris_99> so you need a spectrophotometer don't you
09:39 < nmz787> no
09:40 < nmz787> you can use one
09:40 < nmz787> most optical density for common lab bugs is 600nm
09:40 < nmz787> or thereabouts
09:41 < nmz787> "A word of warning though, since the OD of a sample is dependent on the size and shape of the particles in it, different cell lines can have completely different relationships between OD and cells/mL. This means that a separate calibration will be needed for each cell type you use, which is tedious, but better than recording meaningless and arbitrary numbers in your lab book."
09:42 < nmz787> "Nick founded Bitesize Bio in 2007 to create a central community and knowledge resource for bioscience researchers. After a batchelor's, PhD and 10 years working in biotech, Bitesize Bio inspired him to turn his hand to publishing. He now spends his...
09:42 < nmz787> "
09:42 < nmz787> he misspelled bachelors
09:42 < chris_99> does OD relate to specific gravity?
09:42 < chris_99> i'm guessing not
09:42 < nmz787> no, i dont think so
09:42 < nmz787> the yeast generally flock (settle)
09:42 < chris_99> what are you using it for, yeast?
09:42 < nmz787> but you could probably determine % alcohol with a spectrometer
09:42 < nmz787> no
09:43 < nmz787> just something that needs built
09:43 < chris_99> ah
09:43 < chris_99> yeah you need IR spectrometry for alcohol
09:44 < chris_99> you man measure specific gravity though with a refractometer
09:45 < nmz787> a refractometer can be messed with by sugar type tho too
09:46 < chris_99> yeah i guess, apparently it's reasonably accurate for beer
09:46 < nmz787> http://sciencebrewer.com/experiments/
09:46 < nmz787> "Refractometer Experiment: demonstrates that hop oils can throw off refractometer readings."
09:46 < nmz787> sorry oil not sugar
09:46 < chris_99> interesting
09:46 < chris_99> hadn't heard of that
09:48 < chris_99> i ordered a fibre optic refractometer recently for beer, to measure the SG without having to take out samples
09:48 < nmz787> "However, I now intend to use my hydrometer in addition to my refractometer post boil."
09:48 < chris_99> yeah i normally use a hydrometer though
09:49 < nmz787> was it you who posted about a $200 spectrophotometer?
09:49 < chris_99> yes
09:49 < nmz787> http://www.science-surplus.com/products/spectrometers
09:50 < nmz787> there's the non-ebay likn
09:50 < nmz787> link
09:50 < nmz787> are you in UK though?
09:50 < chris_99> yeah i've seen that, yeah i am
09:50 < nmz787> ahh
09:50 < nmz787> so maybe ebay is better
09:50 < chris_99> yeah
09:50 < chris_99> they also sell calibrated ones
09:50 < chris_99> on the website
09:51 < chris_99> the ones on ebay are uncalibrated
09:58 < nmz787> http://www.meetup.com/Biohackers-NYC/events/77944522/?a=md1_grp&rv=md1
09:58 < nmz787> "Practical Approaches to Transhumanism"
09:58 < nmz787> i.e. grindhouse wetware is talking to a bunch of ppl
09:58 < nmz787> "19 attending"
10:02 < nmz787> here are the alignment instructions
10:02 < nmz787> https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=c2NpZW5jZS1zdXJwbHVzLmNvbXx3d3d8Z3g6NGJlYTc2ZGNmZDg0NGFlNA&pli=1
10:02 < nmz787> i should buy one of these to play around with, and finish the openspectrometer
10:04 < chris_99> they use a Hg-Ar lamp
10:04 < chris_99> apparently
10:17 < nmz787> dick head fish http://phys.org/news/2012-08-penis-head-fish-vietnam.html
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10:26 < skorket> nmz787, what state is the open spectrometer project?
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10:32 < nmz787> unfinished
10:33 < nmz787> i got the CCD control working on the parallax propeller using only 1 core
10:33 < chris_99> what CCD did you use?
10:33 < nmz787> started working on getting the ADC setup correctly with the USB 2.0 chip to pipe data out
10:33 < nmz787> TCD1304AP
10:34 < nmz787> there are 2 videos here http://www.youtube.com/user/ntm787/videos
10:35 < chris_99> cool :)
10:35 < nmz787> I have been figuring out a lot of optics stuff though lately, so I think I'm ready to give openspectrometer some more development push
10:44 < skorket> nmz787, where did you purchase the ccd?
10:44 < nmz787> found an ebay seller and PMed him
10:44 < nmz787> he was in HK or china
10:44 < nmz787> about $10
10:45 < nmz787> I don't have the propeller code on github
10:45 < skorket> this?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-TCD1304AP-CCD-LINEAR-IMAGE-SENSOR-/221068542987?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3378b6440b#ht_1455wt_908
10:45 < nmz787> er, hrmm, I will get it on there today
10:45 < nmz787> not sure if that's the same seller
10:45 < skorket> and why'd you choose propeller?
10:46 < nmz787> I wanted lots of power, ease of use
10:47 < nmz787> 1 of 8 cores is for the CCD, then I can download a library from http://obex.parallax.com/ for SD card stuff
10:47 < nmz787> that would take 1 core
10:47 < nmz787> then another core for the USB controller
10:48 < nmz787> and maybe another core for doing compression or real-time analysis... 'plugins'
10:48 < nmz787> uh, another core to listen to control comms from the computer
10:49 < nmz787> (as I envisioned hooking the ADC output directly to the USB to parallel I/O controller
10:49 < nmz787> rather than bringing the bits into the CPU
10:49 < nmz787> for high-speed streaming
10:50 < nmz787> but bringing them into the CPU may also work, if I use the registers
10:50 < skorket> interesting.  How much is an 8 core propeller?
10:50 < skorket> roughly?
10:51 < skorket> and do you have any experience with the linux tool chain for it?
10:51 < nmz787> $8
10:51 < nmz787> no, but I think I looked about a month ago, and there was development since the last time I'd looked
10:51 < nmz787> but in windows it was as easy as using Arduino
10:52 < nmz787> i.e. 1 file download, unzip, plug in the propeller to a USB 2 Serial, and bam
10:52 < nmz787> I was playing with the idea of using an ARM
10:52 < nmz787> but they're really a PITA to get setup if you don't NEED an ARM
10:52 < kanzure> blaah windows
10:53 < nmz787> rather, if you haven't set on up before
10:57 < nmz787> skorket: also 80MHz (mine is running fine at 96MHz)
10:58 < skorket> I'm like working with the AVR but I think that's mostly because of familiarity.  Maybe I should invest in a propeller...
10:58 < skorket> *I
10:58 < nmz787> there's a great dev board for it
11:00 < nmz787> any of these http://www.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/PropellerDevelopmentBoards/tabid/514/List/0/CategoryID/73/Level/a/SortField/0/Default.aspx
11:00 < skorket> What would you recommend to get started?
11:01 < nmz787> depends what you want to do, this is cheap and has some buttons and big pin headers
11:01 < nmz787> http://www.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/PropellerDevelopmentBoards/tabid/514/CategoryID/73/List/0/SortField/0/Level/a/ProductID/748/Default.aspx
11:02 < nmz787> "Pads for sigma-delta A/D circuitry (two resistors and two capacitors, both 0603) for using the Sigma-Delta A/D AppNote"
11:02 < nmz787> delta-sigma ADC is a pretty cool technique
11:03 < nmz787> its used a lot in ADC ICs, but the speed of the propeller lets you do some lower res/slower ADC too
11:03 < nmz787> i think it only uses 1 or 2 digital IO pins
11:03 < nmz787> and there
11:03 < nmz787> there's a library for it
11:04 < skorket> thanks, I'll look into it
11:05 < nmz787> there's this too
11:05 < nmz787> more expensive http://www.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/PropellerKits/tabid/144/CategoryID/20/List/0/SortField/0/Level/a/ProductID/467/Default.aspx
11:08 < skorket> yeah, I saw that one.  I have to look at it more but that looks promising.  My main concern is the linux toolchain.  I remember we talked about it before, didn't we?  I did a quick search then and it looked like there was some success ranging from a native toolchain to some toolchain involving wine
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11:09 < nmz787> bbl
11:09 < nmz787> i think there is a non-wine way
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11:39 < kendoka> 你好
11:39 < Mariu> 你好
11:39 < Mariu> blast
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12:58 < kanzure> back
12:59 < kanzure> i don't think wine is a good thing to depend on
13:03 < kendoka> whiskey is pretty reliable
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13:06 < kanzure> kendoka: indeed
13:06 < kanzure> wait, is whiskey the name of a windows api emulator too?
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13:11 < chris_99> does anyone know if that sensor was b&w only
13:11 < chris_99> reading the specs it doesn't mention colour
13:11 < chris_99> (TCD1304AP)
13:12 < Mariu> Johnny Walker
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13:51 < chris_99> http://nanohub.org/resources/180
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13:52 < chris_99> nmz787, was that sensor b&w only
13:53 < nmz787> oh, yeah
13:54 < nmz787> no bayer filter
13:54 < nmz787> if that's what you mean
13:54 < chris_99> yeah
13:54 < chris_99> so you'd need 3
13:54 < nmz787> : yeah its 1D
13:54 < nmz787> a line of pixels only
13:54 < chris_99> yeah
13:55 < chris_99> for a spectrometer you'd need colour though
13:55 < chris_99> wouldn't you
13:55 < nmz787> no
13:55 < nmz787> that's what the grating does
13:56 < chris_99> i thought it split them into lines of different colours
14:00 < chris_99> for instance this, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Simple_spectroscope.jpg how would you process that in b&w
14:00 < chris_99> as theres two blue lines isn't there
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14:02 < nmz787> because the grating/prism does a fourier transform on the slit light
14:02 < nmz787> it sorts the freq for you
14:03 < nmz787> rather than the bayer pattern 'sorting' the light into 3 color 'bins'
14:03 < chris_99> oh so you're saying on the far left, is X Hz and on the right is X+n Hz?
14:05 < nmz787> yes
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14:08 < chris_99> cool that makes sense
14:08 < nmz787> so you just need to do a baseline, then place your sample in the light path
14:09 < nmz787> and correct the experimental with the base line
14:09 < nmz787> because even if the light is equal in terms of Watts across the spectrum, the sensor has a sensitivity curve that differs from 300-1000nm, etc
14:12 < chris_99> what do you mean by baseline?
14:13 < nmz787> light source with no sample in the light path
14:14 < nmz787> then you place the sample in the light path, and some of it will get absorbed, some might fluoresce, etc
14:14 < chris_99> ah ok, using a pure white light right?
14:14 < nmz787> well, the calibration curve will tell you what the white light is made up of
14:19 < chris_99> wouldn't it make sense to use something like a laser to align it
14:22 < nmz787> that would work yep
14:24 < chris_99> can you get IR diffraction gratings easily
14:24 < chris_99> i've just looked on fleabay but can't see any
14:27 < chris_99> hmm found one for £45.00 not esp. cheap
14:30 < nmz787> yeah
14:31 < nmz787> IR starts to get tricky though at a certain point, around the 1000nm mark
14:31 < nmz787> when it starts to make sense to use mirrors instead of lenses
14:31 < nmz787> which are all expensive
14:32 < chris_99> oh yeah i was gonna ask you, you need a lens for the CCD right?
14:32 < chris_99> to focus the light
14:33 < chris_99> i guess if the ccd has microlenses, maybe you could get away with placing the grating right on the snesor
14:35 < kanzure> someone named "Data Pathway" has emailed me.. "You have me on your google analytics account with access to the stats to gnusha.org and openmanufacturing.org"
14:35 < kanzure> "would you mind removing me from the account? I am turning some admin tasks over to an assistant, and those dead sites are a little extra clutter I don't want to answer questions about ;-)"
14:35 < kanzure> why does james have access in the first place?
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14:45 < kanzure> why is andrew hessel doing marketing for autodesk?
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14:47 < kanzure> what an awful biotech startup landing page: http://emeraldtherapeutics.com/
14:47 < kanzure> don't do that, kids.
14:47 < chris_99> if only they'd made the double helix spin too
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14:54 < nmz787> this is pretty sweet for $52 http://www.elexp.com/kit_v962.htm#3in1allterrain
14:54 < nmz787> 3-in-1 All Terrain Robot
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15:02 < chris_99> haha it's got a forklift mode
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15:29 < chris_99> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EWWt93Fxls&feature=g-vrec i like this use of a 3D printer @ ~3 minutes
15:35 < kendoka> bryan print me a new liver
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15:38 < kanzure> kendoka: ask jmil, he might be able to pull that off with his machine
15:38 < kanzure> jmil: hi
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15:50 < kanzure> god i hate wired http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-09/04/diy-biohacking
15:50 < kanzure> "Magnet-implanting DIY biohackers pave the way for mainstream adoption"
15:50 < kanzure> that's a pretty big lie.
15:51 < Mokbortolan_1> so this "biohacking", why don't they just call it, "putting magnets into fingers"
15:51 < Mokbortolan_1> because that's all I see going on
15:51 < kanzure> i don't know :(
15:51 < Mokbortolan_1> has anybody got a practical application for fingermagnets?
15:51 < kanzure> "mainstream".. um. first, who the fuck cares about mainstream, and two, who cares about magnets?
15:52 < Mariu> lol
15:52 < kanzure> ughh ""The magnet is attractive because it's this small thing that's so simple, but gives you a new sense of the world," says Grindhouse member Lucas Dimoveo."
15:52 < kanzure> that's Lukas_ when he's in here
15:55 < kanzure> "One transhumanist who is most definitely considered mainstream is not particularly impressed with Cannon's dream mod, nor Grindhouse's particular brand of biohacking. "The first heart replacement was in the 60s -- this is normal!" Natasha Vita-More tells Wired.co.uk."
15:55 < kanzure> natasha is not mainstream :(
15:56 < kanzure> liar "Cannon says the general consensus from the transhumanist community is that the team is "stupid for dreaming". "
15:56 < kanzure> these guys are assholes.
15:56 < jrayhawk> Mokbortolan_1: sensing electric fields is useful for power technicians, electrical engineers, etc.
15:56 < kanzure> jrayhawk: when quantified.. yes.
15:56 < chris_99> haha jrayhawk
15:56 < kanzure> if you're exploring places without blueprints, i could see that really useful
15:57 < jrayhawk> I've seen claims of people identifying faulty equipment.
15:57 < ThomasEgi> jrayhawk, it is magnetic fields. not electric ones. it really is just a toy. fun toy for most it seems
15:57 < jrayhawk> Either grounding out where it's not supposed to or utilizing waaay more power than it's supposed to.
15:57 < kanzure> i think the "us vs them" mentality that grindhouse is suggesting is just really useless
15:57 < chris_99> it seems like a crap way to identify faulty equipment
15:57 < jrayhawk> ThomasEgi: it's called 'electromagnetism' for a reason.
15:58 < kanzure> if when they say "mainstream transhumanists" they are talking about natasha, then they are wasting their time
15:58 < kanzure> if they mean me, then they are just being unnecessarily hostile
15:58 < ThomasEgi> jrayhawk, still magnetic fields, not electric ones^;)
15:58 < jrayhawk> electric currents generate magnetic fields.
15:58 < jrayhawk> that is how electric motors work.
15:58 < ThomasEgi> yeah but electric fields don't generate magnetic ones
15:58 < chris_99> electric fields?
15:58 < ThomasEgi> at least not static
15:59 < jrayhawk> electric fields...?
15:59 < ThomasEgi> what about electric fields?
15:59 < superkuh> A gradient in charge.
15:59 < Mokbortolan_1> http://www.diffen.com/difference/Electric_Field_vs_Magnetic_Field
15:59 < ThomasEgi> those magnets won't allow you to feel if you hold a life wire in your hand.. only if there are 10 A going through it or not.
16:00 < Mokbortolan_1> A moving charge always has both a magnetic and an electric field,
16:00 < ThomasEgi> yeah. but with those magnets you are not able to feel the electric component
16:00 < superkuh> Yeah, well, it's not going to tell you if you're picking up a charged capacitor or anything.
16:00 < chris_99> yup all it'll tell you is if something is magnetic or not ThomasEgi obviously
16:00 < Mokbortolan_1> I thought you could pick up on AC
16:00 < ThomasEgi> hm.. not even that
16:00 < chris_99> *attracted to a magnet
16:00 < kanzure> they should stop wasting their time picking on natasha. it's not like she has any followers.
16:01 < jrayhawk> Yeah, high-current AC is what I usually see mention of.
16:01 < ThomasEgi> it's mostly alternating magnetic fields that you pick up
16:01 < chris_99> what people really should be doing, is attaching a hall effect sensor
16:01 < chris_99> to their neurons ;)
16:01 < ThomasEgi> high ac current, motors, fans. tranforrmers.. stuff like that
16:01 < ThomasEgi> chris_99, work in progress^
16:01 < chris_99> or just make it output vibrations
16:01 < jrayhawk> anyway, this "not *real* biohacking" attitude is not particularly useful
16:02 < jrayhawk> it's a no true scotsman paradox
16:02 < kanzure> sure
16:02 < ThomasEgi> jrayhawk, let the kids have some fun. they do a great job crowdfunding projects
16:02 < kanzure> to be fair, natasha doesn't work with hardware either
16:02 < jrayhawk> you can claim it's not *good* biohacking, but then you have to qualify your position.
16:02 < kanzure> natasha did some documentaries
16:02 < kanzure> and submitted them to film festivals
16:02 < kanzure> and had her 1980s talk show in los angeles
16:03 < kanzure> so uh.. i mean. it's really silly to pick on her.
16:04 < kanzure> except in the sense that nobody thinks that making a more beautiful film will cause hardware to come into existence
16:05 < kanzure> jrayhawk: so is that still a no true scotsman argument?
16:07 < kendoka> Next Topic at H+ "Magnets: How Do They Work?"
16:08 < chris_99> hehe
16:14 < chris_99> nmz787, http://myspectral.com
16:15 < chris_99> unless i'm being very dumb, the schematics aren't there though
16:15 < kanzure> "spectruino" hah
16:15 < kanzure> "As Creative Scientist of the team, he is working on bringing hands on education and experiments to the masses.
16:15 < kanzure> i wish people would stop saying "masses"
16:16 < kendoka> "all the little people"
16:16 < jrayhawk> they found controversy and played it up, which isn't particularly hard in a community of idealists
16:16 < kanzure> also: assay depot (+ DARPA) is repeating the biocurious competition thing at genspace
16:16 < jrayhawk> if you don't want to look like an asshole, don't claim that everyone who has a vision different than yours is also an asshole
16:17 < kanzure> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/EnablingTechnologies_SyntheticBiology
16:17 < kanzure> jrayhawk: so did i do something wrong that made them want to do that, or what?
16:17 < kanzure> jrayhawk: how do i handle them
16:19 < jrayhawk> your desire to force them to conform to your value system is what makes you an asshole. you should find productive overlap where you can and fucking let go of the rest, already.
16:20 < jrayhawk> neither quantifiedself nor big-time bioresearch invalidate eachother, nor do they particularly interfere with eachother.
16:20 < kanzure> i don't think i ever claimed they do
16:21 < jrayhawk> they are an allegory
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16:46 < jrayhawk> the key difference is that i don't think each of quantifiedself and big-time bioresearch spend much time claiming how stupid and useless the other is
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17:47 < kanzure> https://github.com/jywarren/spectral-workbench
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17:54 < nmz787> yea
17:54 < nmz787> blah
17:54 < nmz787> it doesn't have any identification/fingerprinting functionality
17:55 < kanzure> mac posted a link to their work again, but i never remember him posting a link to your stuff :(
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17:55 < nmz787> nope
17:55 < nmz787> they're MIT guys
17:55 < nmz787> maybe that's why?
17:55 < nmz787> or maybe because I never finished
17:55 < nmz787> ...
17:56 < kanzure> dunno. mac went to mit i think, so he might be biased, but i doubt it.
17:57 < nmz787> I dont think he went to MIT, i think he worked there
18:06 < kanzure> good point
18:06 < kanzure> i think before igem, mac was doing drupal work
18:07 < kanzure> http://openwetware.org/nerdbook/
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18:37 < nmz787> kanzure: http://cis-action.com/about
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18:46 < kanzure> hah i see, he uses jason morrison.. that makes sense.
18:46 < kanzure> jason works at thoughtbot
18:47 < kanzure> "I work in a splendid coworking space with a bunch of other web entreprenuers and I like my direction right now even though I don’t have a job."
18:47 < kanzure> i see i see
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19:15 < kanzure> yashgaroth: yo
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19:17 < yashgaroth> sup
19:17 < nmz787> yo
19:18 < nmz787> see you updated linkedin
19:18 < nmz787> Senior
19:18 < yashgaroth> uh huh
19:18 < yashgaroth> fuck yeah
19:18 < yashgaroth> makes up for 'assistant'
19:18 < nmz787> lol
19:18 < kanzure> yashgaroth: you should say you're a 'senior growth hacker'
19:19 < kanzure> growth hacker is the new ninja
19:19 < yashgaroth> I thought gothninjas were the new ninjas
19:19 < nmz787> bbl, watching some old TV show
19:23 < brownies> kanzure: o.O
19:23 < brownies> kanzure: that sentence is really expert-level doublethink
19:23 < brownies> "i work... in a cowrking space... with other "entrepreneurs"... i don't have a job."
19:24 < kanzure> :)
19:25 < yashgaroth> "I work ... even though I don't have a job." indeed
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19:25 < kanzure> i think that page is old
19:25 < kanzure> he tried to do snparty, where he sold snp testing kits to like 10 teachers
19:25 < kanzure> and then he moved to sf to do cofactor bio, except he had like 2 customers
19:33 < brownies> is that enough customers?
19:41 < kanzure> no i assume this is why he's not doing either of those things now
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19:57 < kanzure> blah why hasn't the FBI sent my my records yet? isn't FOIA supposed to work?
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20:07 < delinquentme> jmil: on the choice of stepping for your shaker ... why 16th steps?  Doesnt that generate more heat and less torque?
20:08 < delinquentme> Im sure it would be smoother ... but I was thinking you could almost use another section of tubing to act as some sort of elastomer ... and run it at full stepping ... allowing for smaller motor / cheaper / less heat from active coils
20:08 < delinquentme> passively active coils
20:08 < jmil> delinquentme: less heat. less torque, but overpowered motors for the application so they still run cool. incubators unfortunately DON'T have cooling function, only heating function. so if the motors overheat they will kill all your cells
20:09 < delinquentme> I thought that microstepping generates more heat ... as more coils are energized at a given time?
20:10 < nmz787> delinquentme: no
20:10 < nmz787> microstepping just applies a limited current
20:10 < nmz787> instead of full on off
20:10 < nmz787> following a Nth (microstepped) quantized sine wave
20:10 < jmil> kanzure: wow finger magnets is so freaking stupid. kendoka we are working on your liver. give it 30 more years. should be by then.
20:11 < kanzure> nmz787: did you run into carl? i forget what your plans are
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20:11 < jmil> 'course i been wrong before
20:11 < nmz787> no
20:11 < jmil> :D
20:11 < nmz787> i had to come back to nyc
20:11 < kanzure> jmil: i think he could probably find a donor before 30 years :)
20:11 < delinquentme> yeahh i was up in PGH all weekend :D
20:12 < delinquentme> kk looks like i needs more stepper research
20:12 < delinquentme> afk!
20:14 < kanzure> brownies: this one has a pretty image maybe that means it works http://code.google.com/p/starloot/
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20:16 < brownies> kanzure: GPL! eww
20:23 < kanzure> an interesting ld48 entry: http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/post-mortem-work-on-immune-system-game/
20:23 < kanzure> based on immune system stuff
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20:47 < nmz787> this doesnt necessarily sound like a bad thing http://www.in-pharmatechnologist.com/Ingredients/Chinese-drugmaker-accused-of-using-cooking-oil-in-antibiotic-production/?utm_source=newsletter_daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter%2BDaily&c=fTyEGch4gwMa8y%2FPG5ntqQ%3D%3D&utm_source=BNT+September+4%2C+2012&utm_campaign=BNT090412&utm_medium=email
20:49 < nmz787> "The clampdown was prompted by the discovery of chromium-tainted gelatin derived from the leather industry rather than pharmaceutical grade gelatin had been used to produce gel capsules"
20:50 < nmz787> that that sounds worse
20:50 < tashoutang> kanzure can you tell me about the 益智藥 where can I get it?
20:53 < kanzure> hmm
20:53 < kanzure> tashoutang: http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/36691-ten-months-of-research-condensed-a-total-newbies-guide-to-nootropics/
20:54 < kanzure> haha now that i'm re-reading that, it is funny: "When I take practice tests most days I have nearly perfect recall and my only mistakes are analysis." uhhhh
20:54 < kanzure> that's the most important part! hah.
20:55 < yashgaroth> at least he can remember the excuse easily
20:56 < foucist> what he means is that the only source of errors on his exam is gonna be the part that doesn't depend on his perfect memroy
20:56 < foucist> memory*
20:56 < kanzure> yes i know
20:56 < kanzure> i think the idea is to make no mistakes :)
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--- Log closed Wed Sep 05 00:00:17 2012