--- Log opened Wed Sep 05 00:00:17 2012 00:07 -!- alusion [~alusion@pool-173-79-17-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:08 -!- Guest7065 is now known as Coornail 00:21 -!- marainein [~net@2001:388:608c:6cb5:ed1f:5a9b:cf6b:a7d1] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:22 -!- roksprok [~Zac@50-0-91-31.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: roksprok] 00:33 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:41 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:07 -!- tashoutang [~tata@pc131090206.ntunhs.edu.tw] has quit [] 02:29 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr2.inka-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:29 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr2.inka-online.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:29 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:32 -!- Mokstar [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:33 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:36 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:45 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:47 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:59 -!- amphetamine is now known as AdrianG 03:03 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:04 < archels> Of course, if you ask me, cryonics is nothing but the flabbergasting fantasy that a severed head 03:04 < archels> frozen or vitrified in a misty metal dewar will one day rise from the dead with the help of 03:05 < archels> programmable swarms of nanoscale magic machines that can make anything for nothing, including 03:05 < archels> eternally young robot bodies with comic book sooper-powers, or that "info-souls" interred within 03:05 < archels> decapitated hamburgerized remains will eventually be "uploaded" into cyberspatial heaven, either to 03:05 < archels> wallow in nanobotic sexy-slavebotic treasure caves in the asteroid belt or online until the universe 03:05 < archels> dies and all the Robot Cultists exit into adjacent universes to party on for all eternity as more or 03:05 < archels> less infinitely techno-amplified variations of their most infantile ids, all under the ministrations 03:05 < archels> of a history-ending post-biological perfectly-parental sooper-intelligent Robot God they think their 03:05 < archels> friends are coding even as I write these words. 03:06 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:09 < Mariu> archels, well the revival process might change you and your personality when the simulations wich simulate in reverse the degradation patterns, fill in the information gaps 03:21 < archels> Mariu: The above is not my opinion, it just made me laugh reading it. 03:21 < Mariu> archels: got it xD 03:26 < archels> Mariu: So what do you think on cryonic revival, bringing the frozen tissue back to life vs. uploading being the only way back to life? 03:30 < Mariu> archels: I think that every moment of our lives might be a transition of information from one state to another, uploading is just a similar transition with an unusual displacement in space-time, and with the risk of creating another you. I don't know, about cryonics....we could explore that department and find out more about it. Same with uploading, also. 03:31 < Mariu> it's just theories though :) 03:32 < Mariu> the risk of creating another you, maybe it's not a risk ... I don't know 03:33 < Mariu> we could also master how we change 03:33 < Mariu> or not change, or change to how we need 03:35 < archels> On a purely practical level though, I doubt it's worth the time, effort and money to investigate reviving frozen tissue. Best to focus on uploading technologies instead. 03:36 < archels> But I think many in the cryonics department would disagree with me on this. 03:36 < Mariu> sure, the more options, the better 03:37 < archels> But we'd be losing the option of directly reviving the frozen tissue. 03:47 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-98-66.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:49 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-98-66.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:09 -!- Mokbortolan_1 [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:11 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:25 < Urchin> the original idea behind cryonics *is* to upload the frozen/vitrified people 04:26 < Urchin> at least for current generation of cryopreserved 04:32 < archels> not so sure about this, from what I've been reading on the New_Cryonet mailing list. 04:32 < archels> But perhaps the subject of uploading is intentionally avoided, in an attempt not to sound /even more/ cookie. :) 04:37 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-197-210.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:48 < ThomasEgi> hm.. just out of curiosity.. wouldnt that require to map the entire neural system out? 04:49 < Mariu> :) 04:50 < ThomasEgi> which, to my knowledge, isn't really possible with nondestructive methods. so it would mean cutting and scanning of countless of slices. 04:50 < ThomasEgi> anyone ever tried this on a small scale? like i don't know. a fruitfly or an ant? 04:51 < ThomasEgi> using image processing to reconstruct the neuron networks and interconnections, then create a simulation based on that 04:52 < archels> Yes, it would require destructive slicing and scanning of the complete brain. 04:53 < ThomasEgi> and backbone 04:53 < archels> This has been done, and is an active field of research. Right now we can do some pretty precise mapping (single dendritic spines, cellular organelles, etc.). 04:53 < ThomasEgi> otherwise you'd have no propper feedback in your virtual body i guess 04:53 < Mariu> hmm 04:53 < ThomasEgi> archels, any complete simulation of a living creature? 04:53 < archels> The shortcoming is (1) we can do this insanely precisely for very small tissue blocks, or (2) we can do it with a rather huge inter-slice gap (due to cutting) at a not-so-good precision. 04:53 < archels> ThomasEgi: No. 04:54 < ThomasEgi> so. the problem is to remove thin layer of the materal then? 04:54 < archels> However, there's nothing stopping this in principle. The technology just needs to be improved. 04:54 < archels> yes, mostly. 04:54 < archels> The situation now is that you will get superb XY resolution, but terrible Z resolution due to the slicing. 04:55 < ThomasEgi> hm... if the material could be made very solid. one could grind off and polish, instead of slicing 04:55 < archels> Unless you do the whole thing in a vacuum chamber, where you can use ion beam milling. 04:55 < ThomasEgi> which would allow extremly fine resolution 04:55 < archels> That might be an option, yep. 04:55 < ThomasEgi> how bout femto-second laser pulses? they can blast off material without burning the layers below 04:56 < ThomasEgi> fairly commonly found in industries 04:56 < archels> I'm guessing no one has ever tried this on tissue. 04:57 < ThomasEgi> does freezing destruct the neuronal structure on bigger scale? 04:57 < archels> Not sure, but presumably it leaves much of the ultrastructure intact, or people would have given up on it long ago. 04:58 < archels> Plastination as opposed to cryogenics seems promising in this respect. 04:59 < ThomasEgi> i mean.. i know for sure that , with a solid block of material, grinding and polisishing can be done at μm precision and better 05:01 < archels> Then this might indeed be a very sensible approach. Not sure why I've never read about it before. 05:02 < Urchin> well, vitrified brain is essentially glass 05:03 < Urchin> besides, that's early theories on how it would be used back from '80s 05:04 < archels> So why is everybody doing slicing now for reconstruction? 05:05 < ThomasEgi> archels, the mirrors of the space teleskope hubble was polished in shape too. glass 05:06 < ThomasEgi> and they polished with a precision of 1/800000 inch (stupid imperial unit but thats what they say) 05:08 < ThomasEgi> bout 32nanometer 05:08 < ThomasEgi> guess that should be good enough 05:08 < ThomasEgi> at least worth to try out on something like a fruit fly where you don't spend 5 years of polishing^ 05:09 < archels> hehe 05:09 < archels> Polishing generates heat though, perhaps this is problematic with frozen tissue? 05:10 < ThomasEgi> hm.. that could be calculated, with enough cooling that should be possible? 05:11 < ThomasEgi> is a rough surface a problem when scanning the structure? 05:14 < ThomasEgi> guess in worst case you could polish inside an synthetic-oil-bath or so 05:15 < ThomasEgi> which would do a good job keeping the temperature down 05:15 < archels> nod 05:15 < archels> can't dig up anything on Google about this 05:15 < archels> might post to said mailing list to find out what's up. 05:16 < ThomasEgi> hehe. usualy polishing is not used for slicing organisms :D 05:16 < ThomasEgi> so i doubt you'd find much online 05:16 < Mariu> ^^ 05:18 < ThomasEgi> how about chemical processing? 05:18 < ThomasEgi> ecthing away the stuff. 05:18 < ThomasEgi> ah nevermind. would probably be a problem with all the frozen water diluating... 05:18 < ThomasEgi> well.. maybe. there are people with more expertise on that. 05:19 < ThomasEgi> but i'd guess it might allow for very fine layers to be etched away,too 05:20 < ThomasEgi> what z-resolution would be required anyway? 05:21 < archels> The thickness of a bilipid membrane is about 10 nm, so let's say 100 nm at the most. 05:22 < archels> One micron and you start losing spines. 05:23 < ThomasEgi> any surface requirements? 05:23 < archels> suitable for EM microscopy 05:24 < ThomasEgi> i am not an expert for those :) 05:24 < archels> me neither 05:25 < ThomasEgi> my guess would be that requiresa dry surface so the electrons wont get caught in some liquid 05:26 < ThomasEgi> i'd sorta prefer an diy,athome process 05:26 < ThomasEgi> but i don't suppose you can get far with optical instruments here 05:26 < ThomasEgi> even under oil 05:26 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:27 < ThomasEgi> or.. can you pull this off on an optical microscope? 05:32 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:33 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:35 < ThomasEgi> guess... slicing allows for a lot more samples to be prepared. while polishing would be insanely labour intense, requireing the same sample to be processed over and over again. 05:35 < ThomasEgi> would still be interesting tho. 05:46 < archels> Key to both methods is to automate the process, otherwise it would take a 4 year PhD project to scan a single brain, let alone reconstruct it. ;) 05:46 < ThomasEgi> that is why i am asking for an optical resolution 05:46 < ThomasEgi> if you can optically microscope that thing inside an oil path. you can have a rotating table. where it grinds on one side, and microscopes on the other 05:46 < ThomasEgi> so it constantly rotates and produces one image after the other 05:47 < ThomasEgi> all you have to do is to keep the things turning and the oil filtered well 05:47 < ThomasEgi> there seems to be optical microscopes that scratch into the nanometer range.. but hardly looks like off-the-shelf equipment. 05:51 < ThomasEgi> even for a fruitfly brain and 100nm polish levels. that make 7000 scans+polish cycles 05:55 < ThomasEgi> if you process everything under oil and with some luck, get one image per minute.. that'll only take a week 05:56 < Mariu> =p 05:58 -!- marainein [~net@2001:388:608c:6cb5:3d17:aba6:e63f:96da] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:04 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:18 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:28 -!- delinquentme [47ec6527@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.236.101.39] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:57 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:42 -!- audy [~audy@heyaudy.com] has quit [Changing host] 07:42 -!- audy [~audy@unaffiliated/audy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:48 -!- kendoka [60f1d48d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.241.212.141] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:49 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.185.57] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:50 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.185.57] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:50 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.185.57] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:51 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:54 < kendoka> kanzure 07:55 < kendoka> ill msg you later 08:09 -!- kendoka [60f1d48d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.241.212.141] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:14 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@213.37.172.235.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:28 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@ool-45792f2b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:30 < kanzure> kendoka: yes i got your pms 08:39 < nmz787> who was taking citicoline in here 08:40 < nmz787> aren't they worried about getting Cushings Syndrome? 08:44 < archels> ThomasEgi: interesting idea, the continuously revolving table. 08:46 < nmz787> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/04/science/earth/study-questions-advantages-of-organic-meat-and-produce.html?_r=1 08:46 < ThomasEgi> mate of me just mentioned that even a very accurate scan won't really reveal the interaction between cells, like which ones are really connected 08:46 < nmz787> "They concluded that fruits and vegetables labeled organic were, on average, no more nutritious than their conventional counterparts, which tend to be far less expensive" 08:46 < nmz787> "Conventional fruits and vegetables did have more pesticide residue, but the levels were almost always under the allowed safety limits" 08:46 < nmz787> soo, I still don't know if the safety levels are really OK levels or not though 08:47 < delinquentme> nmz787: I've seen a list of particular veggies that you're supposed to buy organic 08:47 < ThomasEgi> yeah.. but it is less about the nutritions. for me , that bio-stuff is mostly about taste and often, the actual process of growing and farming is less damaging to nature (or what remained of it) 08:47 < archels> ThomasEgi: Electron microscopy can, insofar as it can show the location of the postsynaptic receptor density. 08:47 < nmz787> "Organic chicken and pork were less likely to be contaminated by antibiotic-resistant bacteria." 08:47 < delinquentme> but " allowed safety limits " == " safe / good for you " ? 08:47 < delinquentme> IDK. 08:48 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: I've actually heard some debate over whether organic farming is actually better for the environment, because its in general less efficient 08:48 < nmz787> but I didn't look into that debate too much 08:48 < nmz787> it makes sense though, either we use less efficient, maybe non-petrol methods... or we use petrol products 08:49 < ThomasEgi> efficient or not. i'd rather see stuff growing on a flied that is not poisoned, but instead features a rich biodiversity 08:49 < nmz787> so less efficiency means better taste, but also more hungry people 08:49 < kanzure> huh? an e-scope can show receptor density? 08:49 < kanzure> well i guess that makes sense 08:49 < ThomasEgi> ... hungry people is not about efficciency. we throw away most of the food anyway.. 08:49 < nmz787> in /this/ country, yes 08:49 < archels> kanzure: the postsynaptic density, in technical terms. Not sure about symmetric (inhibitory) synapses. 08:49 < ThomasEgi> but an e-scope cant operate under oil right? 08:50 < nmz787> a few places in asia i've been, at least, they dont throw much food away there 08:50 < nmz787> an e-scope operates in a vacuum 08:50 < nmz787> so if the oil is OK there, it should be OK 08:50 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 08:50 < nmz787> but I'm not sure if you'll see the oil or what's below it 08:50 < archels> kanzure: okay, the latter too. http://synapses.clm.utexas.edu/anatomy/chemical/symh.htm 08:50 < kanzure> archels: oh, density, not actual receptor resolution? 08:50 < kanzure> hrm. alright then. 08:51 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:51 < archels> It can't image the single receptor proteins, no. 08:51 < kanzure> ah. 08:52 < archels> asymmetric for comparison--much easier to detect: http://synapses.clm.utexas.edu/anatomy/chemical/asymh.htm 08:52 < archels> Looks like we'll need to pretty good image processing algorithms for this. :) 08:53 < nmz787> that synapse looks horrible 08:53 < nmz787> it definitely doesn't look empty 08:54 -!- roksprok [~Zac@50-0-91-31.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:55 < nmz787> did you ask marce about this weekend? 08:55 < nmz787> whoops, wrong IM 09:05 -!- roksprok [~Zac@50-0-91-31.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: roksprok] 09:13 < nmz787> "The study also found that organic milk contained more omega-3 fatty acids, which are considered beneficial for the heart." 09:14 < nmz787> "One finding of the study was that organic produce, over all, contained higher levels of phosphorus than conventional produce." 09:15 < nmz787> so, uh, I guess we need to add more phosphorous to conventional foods 09:15 < nmz787> maybe they don't have enough to produce auxiliary tasty molecules! 09:17 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:23 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:25 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-167-136.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:26 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:27 < eudoxia> < ThomasEgi> does freezing destruct the neuronal structure on bigger scale? 09:28 < eudoxia> apparently cooling beyond the vitrification point causes fracturing between tissues with different contractions, ie the vascular tree snaps off from the neurons 09:32 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:33 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:38 < jrayhawk> uh, adding phosphorous is what makes things not organic 09:38 < jrayhawk> it's also why there's no more magnesium in the soil 09:39 < jrayhawk> also also almost all milk in this country is pasteurized and stored in transparent bottles, so expect most of that omega-3 to be oxidized 09:39 < nmz787> jrayhawk: it says phosphorous was low in non-organic 09:40 < nmz787> so no worry of making them less-organic 09:40 < jrayhawk> yes, that is the comical irony 09:42 < jrayhawk> "considered beneficial to the heart" is a stupid summary of omega 3 and "organic" is not the same as "grass fed" as i bet that author is trying to imply 09:43 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:48 < jrayhawk> ah, new york times 09:49 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: why do some adjustable bench DC power supplies have just + and -, but some have 3 terminals with a gtound too 09:50 < jrayhawk> anyway, the lipid profile of "organic" grains is just as omega-3-lacking as the lipid profile for fossil-fuel-grown grains 09:50 < jrayhawk> if some cows have more ALA, it's because they were eating more grass 09:50 < nmz787> jrayhawk: yeah I haven't been eating any beef not grassfed since i saw you 09:51 < jrayhawk> fish is really more important 09:51 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, depends on the protection class of the device.. 09:51 < jrayhawk> humans can't usefully convert ALA to EPA and DHA 09:51 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: I'm looking at linear supplies 09:51 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, matter of design of the device, in combination with safety regulations. 09:51 < chris_99> nmz787, you'd well it means you'd have say 12V and 0V or 12V, 0V and -12V 09:52 < chris_99> i would have thought 09:52 < ThomasEgi> or.. you mean 3 at the output? 09:52 < nmz787> here's what i'm seeing http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=mastech+linear+supply 09:52 < chris_99> what are you powering btw, because i found an ATX powersupply works great for most stuff 09:53 < chris_99> and just use a LDO voltage reg 09:53 < chris_99> if i need to vary the output 09:53 < nmz787> chris_99: i need a bench supply anyway, just to have for convenience 09:53 < chris_99> ah ok 09:53 < delinquentme> kanzure: nmz787 chris_99 jmil opinions on peter Diamandis ? 09:53 < ThomasEgi> ah.. well that's pretty much allows you to ground to the device you . which might be not the same ground potential as the one in your poweroutlet 09:53 < nmz787> but i'm going to power this laser diode 09:53 < nmz787> so a linear supply should be low enough ripple 09:53 < chris_99> not heard of him delinquentme 09:53 < ThomasEgi> but.. most lab supplies usualy have that connected to the grid gnd 09:53 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:54 < nmz787> delinquentme: dunno the name 10:06 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-167-136.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:14 < kanzure> i have negative opinions about pete diamandis 10:14 < kanzure> because of some things he did with xprize/singularityu that weren't very ethical i guess 10:24 < delinquentme> such as? 10:25 < delinquentme> examples ( as I just dont know about this ) 10:26 < kanzure> hmm i don't know if there's a public thing that explains it 10:26 < kanzure> go ask jojack 10:28 -!- soylentbomb [~k@d149-67-118-140.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:28 -!- soylentbomb [~k@d149-67-118-140.col.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Changing host] 10:28 -!- soylentbomb [~k@unaffiliated/soylentbomb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:34 < jrayhawk> nmz787: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1721584909067928384 is a documentary exploring the worst case scenario of a fossil-fuel-to-organic-farming transition 10:34 < jrayhawk> even the worst case scenario is not particularly bad 10:35 < jrayhawk> unfortunately the first part of it is irritating malthusian scaremongering 10:45 -!- delinquentme [47ec6527@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.236.101.39] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:53 -!- Validatorian [Validatori@unaffiliated/phazm] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 10:58 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.185.57] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58 -!- augur_ [~augur@206.196.185.57] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:11 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:22 < Urchin> afaik, we can't support present population with organic farming 11:24 -!- Mokbortolan_1 is now known as Mokstar 11:25 < Mokstar> yeah, we're gonna have to have a sort of global kumite 11:28 -!- augur_ [~augur@206.196.185.57] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:29 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.185.57] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:29 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.185.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30 < jrayhawk> the last analysis i saw of polyface farms' methods was 1.1 acres per person 11:34 < Urchin> ok, what's the surface that can be used? 11:35 < jrayhawk> he's mostly reliant on grassland 11:37 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.185.57] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:45 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.185.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46 < kanzure> "There is some suspicion that the Horde has constructed a secret base near the mainland, so it is imperative that you begin building your defense with haste." 11:46 < kanzure> man, where did they find this guy? 11:49 < jrayhawk> i have not seen an analysis of polyculture farming with buffalo instead of cows, but i suspect there are some gains to be had, there 11:51 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:52 < chris_99> aliexpress.com is pretty interesting to find components if you guys haven't seen it before 11:54 < nmz787> its the baby brother of alibaba.com 11:55 < chris_99> indeed 11:55 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.185.57] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:55 < chris_99> i've just sent a message to a company on alibaba to try and find some IR image sensors 11:57 < chris_99> what do you guys use for CAD btw? 12:07 < delinquentme> sawlidwarkz 12:08 < chris_99> that does look impressive, is it complex to use though? 12:10 < delinquentme> nope 12:10 < delinquentme> hella easy actually 12:10 < delinquentme> learned in like 2 days 12:11 < delinquentme> perhaps not everything ... but enough to become productive 12:11 < chris_99> sweet, may give that a shot, if i get a 3d printer/cutter 12:14 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:19 < kanzure> http://www.ponoko.com/make-and-sell/show-material/30-petg-clear 12:27 -!- Juul [~Juul@slim.dhcp.lbl.gov] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:31 < kanzure> Juul: hi 12:31 < Juul> kanzure, hi 12:32 < kanzure> did you get my email about openwetware? 12:32 < Juul> probably. i'm working my way through a backlog after getting home from burning man 12:32 < kanzure> how was it? 12:32 < Juul> very interesting, definitely an experience i'm glad to have had 12:33 < Juul> have you heard about this tent.io decentralized social networking protocol? 12:37 < kanzure> no 12:37 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@213.37.172.235.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:39 < Juul> ok, replied to your email 12:39 < kanzure> cool thanks 12:39 < kanzure> Juul: no i don't think that's a good way to get people to use OWW ;) but it's still worth investigating i guess. 12:40 < Juul> ok 12:40 < kanzure> i think OWW's problem is that there's no community around it 12:40 < Juul> i agree 12:41 < delinquentme> kanzure, Juul its an awesome resource .. but why am I not using it? 12:43 < Juul> well, for one thing it looks like it's not being actively used, which is a big turnoff to new users 12:43 < Juul> there is a lot of outdated info on there, even on the front page 12:44 < kanzure> if you check the recent changes, people definitely use it - it's a requirement for igem 12:44 < Juul> yeah, but it looks like it's not being actively used 12:44 < kanzure> true that 12:44 < kanzure> and it isn't 12:47 < Mariu> OWW is Open WetWare ? 12:47 < kanzure> yes 12:55 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:24 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:25 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:31 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:33 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:48 -!- skorket [~skorket@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:48 < Urchin> open wetware? 13:49 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.185.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55 < delinquentme> Oh speaking of iGem and biobricks 13:55 < delinquentme> the genome compiler now has full biobricks integration 13:56 < delinquentme> I HELLLA wish that dude made the project into a damn API 13:56 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Quit: jmil] 13:56 < delinquentme> but he wants to build an interface 13:56 < delinquentme> *shrug* 14:03 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@ool-45792f2b.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:09 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.185.57] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:12 < kanzure> huh? why not just use the actual biobricks api instead 14:14 < delinquentme> Shibboleth 14:14 < delinquentme> kanzure, I think that the algo they use to offer up suggestions as to what metabolic modifications to do is highly valuable 14:15 < kanzure> i'm pretty sure they didn't create that 14:15 < delinquentme> but they want you to use the UI to do that 14:15 < delinquentme> nah KEGG 14:15 < delinquentme> they've got the metabolic representations 14:15 < kanzure> why the hell would i use adobe air, ever? 14:16 < delinquentme> because some guy has a half decent idea but hasn't grokked the capacity for machine-based-troublehshooting 14:16 < delinquentme> and instead wants humans to painstakingly go in and select out individual permutations for a possible modification to an organism 14:16 < delinquentme> instead of just selecting inputs and outputs and telling the machines to try 1000 different combinations 14:17 < delinquentme> I KNOW! lets slow it down by putting humans in the mix! 14:17 < kanzure> i just don't see why you like him so much 14:17 < kanzure> he makes poor technology choices, he promotes his crappy product, and uses adobe air 14:22 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.185.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25 < delinquentme> kanzure, I like the idea 14:26 < delinquentme> of taking a metabolic map .. and saying if we're trying to get from water to potassium ( or some other chemical modification ) 14:26 < delinquentme> excuse my chemistry 14:27 < delinquentme> but add this gene which will make a novel modification which will then be picked up by THIS pathway ... modified and the plop ... novel output 14:41 < jrayhawk> shibboleth what now? 14:42 -!- Guest87504 [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:43 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-197-210.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:05 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:06 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:09 < kanzure> shibboleth is the name of a uk academic/online paper thing 15:09 < kanzure> delinquentme: i fail to see what that has to do with /that/ person.. he's certainly not the first person to have that idea 15:10 < kanzure> and his implementation is sucky 15:10 < delinquentme> no? 15:10 < delinquentme> I thought thats why he got google moneh 15:10 < delinquentme> Like KEGG is certainly established 15:10 < delinquentme> as well as their API ... which is supposed to be brand spanking new 15:10 < delinquentme> so maybe you're right 15:10 < kanzure> he got google money because he can sell better than you can 15:11 < delinquentme> I mean maybe Im missing something ... but the video presentation on genome additions to code for intermediate protein modifications was cool 15:23 -!- ParahSailin_ [~parah@69.151.157.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:43 -!- ParahSailin_ [~parah@adsl-69-151-147-224.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:43 -!- ParahSailin_ [~parah@adsl-69-151-147-224.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43 -!- ParahSailin_ [~parah@adsl-69-151-147-224.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:55 -!- Charlie [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:55 -!- Charlie is now known as Guest22963 16:06 < jrayhawk> uh, shibboleth is a SAML implementation commonly used for federated authentication and authorization 16:08 * Mokstar uses ADFS 2.0. 16:08 < jrayhawk> 'openid is a livejournal comment posting thing' 16:09 < jrayhawk> i am just wondering why it's coming up in discussion here; i don't understand the context 16:11 < jrayhawk> 'AD FS can interact with SAML 2.0 compliant federation services as federation partners.' 16:11 < jrayhawk> huh, cool 16:12 < jrayhawk> and kerberos, too 16:13 < jrayhawk> weird to see a microsoft standard that is both sane and interoperable with other sane standards 16:16 < delinquentme> jrayhawk, its just something I started working with 16:16 < delinquentme> these guys want system-to-system authentication 16:16 < jrayhawk> oh, cool 16:17 < jrayhawk> I've been meaning to use it for piny. 16:19 < jrayhawk> I've previously played with implementing the web sso profile in ruby and I was impressed with the general purposeness, design, and modularity of the standard 16:20 < jrayhawk> i seriously have to wonder why openid and oauth exist when the saml standard was better in every way 16:20 < kanzure> http://blog.ginkgobioworks.com/2012/01/14/commercial-gene-synthesis/ 16:23 < jrayhawk> a bunch of the free IdPs even do x509 authentication, so you don't need any actual interaction to authenticate 16:23 < jrayhawk> it drives me insane what a ghetto of bad standards the web is driven by 16:35 < strangewarp> Citicoline and alpha-GPC arrived in the mail :3 16:35 < strangewarp> tomorrow, I'm starting a regimen of noopept, citicoline, and alpha-GPC. We'll see how it goes 16:36 < strangewarp> Just realized I'd forgotten to look for vegetarian capsules, so they've got gelatin.. blurgh. Will take them anyway, since I've already bought them 16:55 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:12 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:15 -!- tashoutang [~tata@pc131090206.ntunhs.edu.tw] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:28 < jmil> delinquentme: dunno peter diamandis 17:41 -!- skorket [~skorket@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:46 -!- Mokstar [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:48 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:51 < brownies> plain old noopept isn't enough, eh? 17:52 -!- alusion_ [~alusion@pool-173-79-17-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:57 < strangewarp> brownies: I got the noopept on a whim, honestly, since I've wanted to try it out 17:58 < brownies> well, hurry up, so you can tell us how it is =P 17:59 < kanzure> brownies: he's going for dramatic suspense i guess 18:00 < brownies> is noopept scheduled in the US? 18:02 < brownies> doesn't seem to be 18:02 < brownies> strangewarp: where'd you get it from btw? 18:02 < strangewarp> Brainpower Nutriceuticals 18:03 < strangewarp> Much more cost-effective than any of the expensive-ass noopept on Amazon 18:03 < strangewarp> I'm waiting until tomorrow to take any because I already had a Nawgan today, and if I take a noopept without taking a citicoline, I will have an uneven number of pills of each, and that sort of thing /bothers me/ 18:05 < brownies> ooh, they prepackage it with choline inside the capsule... how nice of them. 18:05 < strangewarp> indeed 18:05 < brownies> 30mg seems high though, no? 18:05 < strangewarp> It's the maximum dose, I think? 18:07 < brownies> yea i would rather have it in 10-15mg doses personally 18:07 * strangewarp shrugs 18:09 < brownies> strangewarp: why'd you pick this supplier? are they reputable? 18:09 < strangewarp> brownies: Someone here recommended them - Morkbotolan, I think - and they're decent 18:10 < strangewarp> er, Mokbortolan, rather 18:11 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:14 < brownies> hm, alright. 18:32 -!- tashoutang [~tata@pc131090206.ntunhs.edu.tw] has quit [] 18:33 -!- kendoka [60f1d48d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.241.212.141] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:37 < kendoka> http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a558314.pdf 18:37 < kendoka> http://neurotrek.com/ 18:49 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@ool-45792f2b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:59 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:59 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59 -!- Mokbortolan_1 [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:00 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:10 < kanzure> kendoka: so i see you are interested in tyler's stuff 19:11 < kanzure> kendoka: http://mybraincloud.net http://synsonix.com 19:11 < kanzure> kendoka: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ultrasound/url.txt 19:12 -!- Juul [~Juul@slim.dhcp.lbl.gov] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14 -!- roksprok [~Zac@50-0-91-31.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:20 < kendoka> Will the netflix movies streamed to my visual cortex be in HD? 19:23 < kanzure> no, only the torrents 19:24 < kendoka> ok then 19:25 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:26 < nmz787> so i went to a grindhouse wetware biohack-NYC meetup.com thing tonight 19:26 < nmz787> i got there late tho 19:26 < nmz787> i didnt talk much 19:26 -!- joshcryer [g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:27 < nmz787> the crowd seemed pretty 'normal', not my kind of ppl 19:27 < yashgaroth> fuckin' normos 19:27 < yashgaroth> ...anyone interesting there? 19:28 < nmz787> when they were talking about implanting RFID and then that getting hacked... all i could think of was that tagging with DNA already exists, and has for years (RFLP) 19:28 < roksprok> nmz787: did they talk about any projects they were working on? 19:28 < nmz787> dolphin-inspired bottlenose thing, electric field for magnet finger implants 19:28 < nmz787> as well as a haptic version of that for non implatees 19:29 < nmz787> yashgaroth: right on 19:29 < roksprok> huh...did they talk about resolution? or why that would be perferable to just looking where you were going? 19:29 < nmz787> i had mailed the group with the invite for the DNA synthesis meeting i talked at... and confronted the group leader, but she said she was innundated with email and didnt see it or something 19:29 < nmz787> but was interested 19:30 < nmz787> what should i tell the normos? 19:30 < yashgaroth> "BioHackersNYC takes a broader view of biohacking compared to the original biopunk movement or DIYBio where experimentation with DNA and other aspects of molecular biology was/is a core element." bah! 19:31 < yashgaroth> can't they just call it bodyhacking or something? bio is our word :( 19:31 < yashgaroth> and they got no right using it 19:32 < nmz787> tonight was called "Practical Approaches to Transhumanism" 19:32 < nmz787> but I got there at slide 12 of 16 19:32 < nmz787> so I missed a lot 19:32 < nmz787> and it kind of promptly ended at 8 when the room was taken over by dancers 19:32 < nmz787> (it was held in a dance studio) 19:33 < nmz787> the haptic bottlenose tihng sounds cool 19:33 < nmz787> oh they also talked about open-source and wanting to be connected to everything all the time 19:33 < nmz787> like brain-4G 19:37 < kanzure> wow they really wrote that? it has a "broader view"? that's complete bullshit. why don't they like us? 19:38 < yashgaroth> "biohacking sounds cool so we're gonna do brain training apps, crossfit and paleo diets and call it that" 19:38 < kanzure> that sounds ok to me.. just don't say "And everyone else who's not with us tonight is a loser" 19:39 < kanzure> or "the other stuff that's going on is less biohacking" 19:41 < yashgaroth> ah well it's still better than lepht I guess 19:41 < yashgaroth> so nmz787 are you permanently in nyc now? 19:51 < delinquentme> is this new? http://diybio.org/2012/06/12/gaudilabalgaepicker/ 20:02 < nmz787> yashgaroth: no, hopefully getting out to portland in a month or so 20:02 < nmz787> but I am settling in a bit I guess 20:03 < roksprok> nmz787: why portland? 20:03 < yashgaroth> nyc is appealing, if I were in an industry that existed there I'd move in a heartbeat 20:04 < nmz787> roksprok: gf is discussing a job offer there 20:04 < nmz787> yashgaroth: nyc is OK, but I am learning that I'm really a country boy at heart 20:05 < nmz787> I learned that I grew up in a rural microcosm in my home city 20:05 < nmz787> like its really quiet and peaceful there, and there are deer and stuff 20:05 < nmz787> but its surrounded by urbanism 20:05 < yashgaroth> you could live in central park, but yeah otherwise the nearest forest is way the fuck out there 20:06 < nmz787> so most cities are too big, and portland has good urban border control 20:06 < kanzure> portland - where young people go to retire 20:08 < yashgaroth> ♪ where the 90s never died ♪ 20:08 < strangewarp> portlandia <3 20:09 < nmz787> what is this??? oOo https://angel.co/benchling https://benchling.com/beta/ 20:11 < nmz787> kanzure: what is angel.co? 20:11 < nmz787> they have this on there too https://angel.co/genome-compiler 20:12 < kanzure> angel.co is a very popular angel-round-raising site 20:12 < kanzure> yep.. anselm is on there too, and everyone else in SV 20:12 < nmz787> do they give money 20:12 < kanzure> yes angels give you money 20:12 < nmz787> i.e. if you're on there they gave u $ 20:13 < kanzure> no 20:13 < kanzure> it's just a social networking site 20:13 < nmz787> so angel.co is not funding 2 gene softwares 20:13 < kanzure> no. it will show you their investors. 20:13 < kanzure> (if they have any on angel.co) 20:13 < kanzure> it's like the social version of crunchbase.. except more popular 20:13 < nmz787> ahh 20:13 < nmz787> ok 20:13 < kanzure> brownies: how would you explain angel.co? 20:14 < nmz787> dunno what crunchbsae is 20:14 < kanzure> behold: http://www.crunchbase.com/company/admob 20:14 < kanzure> compare to: https://angel.co/admob 20:16 < nmz787> why is this better than wikipedia? 20:17 < kanzure> because wikipedia isn't going to raise your $500k seed round 20:17 < roksprok> angel.co is limited sign-ups right? like you have to be refered by someone or go though some process to have a page there? 20:18 < kanzure> http://angel.co/kanzure 20:18 < kanzure> oh oops 20:18 < nmz787> no i mean crunchbase 20:19 < nmz787> the company info felt like a wikipedia article 20:20 < kanzure> oh weird. https://angel.co/bryan-bishop 20:20 < kanzure> well whatever. that one. 20:20 < kanzure> haha sung 20:20 < nmz787> Sung? 20:21 < kanzure> sung's a "follower" 20:23 < nmz787> ttyl 20:23 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@ool-45792f2b.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:34 < brownies> kanzure: eh? 20:35 < brownies> angel.co is... bringing some parts of the angel investment process online 20:38 < kanzure> oh i guess it might make more sense to explain how it started 20:38 < kanzure> it was originally 'angel list' and they would bring a few startups in front of some angels 20:39 < kanzure> and the angels would then be like "aww yeah bro, this is the shit, here's some money" 20:39 < kanzure> not sure if that still happens 20:41 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Quit: jmil] 21:05 -!- kendoka [60f1d48d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.241.212.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:11 -!- roksprok_ [~Zac@c-50-136-156-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:11 -!- roksprok__ [~Zac@50-0-91-31.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:12 < brownies> it supposedly h appens 21:12 -!- roksprok [~Zac@50-0-91-31.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12 -!- roksprok__ is now known as roksprok 21:15 -!- roksprok_ [~Zac@c-50-136-156-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:19 -!- roksprok [~Zac@50-0-91-31.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:35 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:37 -!- Mokbortolan_1 [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:43 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:48 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:52 < jmil> kanzure delinquentme: iGEM is a mess. biobricks don't work that great. there's no validation of what gets submitted. 90% of what our team requested from iGEM didn't work at all. we have a VERY capable team too. the design spec for biobricks is an outdated mess now weighing everything down. 21:53 < delinquentme> jmil, thats a bummer 21:53 < delinquentme> also I got a definitive answer on the power / heat output on a stepper 21:53 < jmil> it's amazing to me that published papers and peer review are so successful 21:53 < jmil> compared to iGEM 21:53 < delinquentme> I was incorrect in thinking that coils are running at full power 21:53 < delinquentme> depending on the stepping all the coils are running at reduced power 21:54 < jmil> iGEM had the promise of somethign really great for DIY Bio. but with one arbiter of quality, if that arbiter fails, the whole damn house of cards falls 21:54 < delinquentme> TLDR: power output all the way down to 1/X microstepping is the same 21:54 < delinquentme> as its divided among all coils 21:54 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-101-208-182.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:55 < delinquentme> also v1 of the shaker doesnt have a timer ... simply on/ off and frequency selection 21:55 < jmil> oh. all i know is that 75 oz-in NEMA 17 motors have plenty of torque to turn these plates and simply don't put out any heat. that's why i chose them. and they can barely be turned by a pololu 21:55 < delinquentme> ... allows for me to control the whole machine off of a single encoder ( which is really really clean ) 21:55 < jmil> delinquentme: i had a scheme where i wanted to use a slider with a 7-seg LED display to set the speed. I was gonna base it on the Danger Shield. 21:56 < jmil> another of Zach Hoeken's amazing designs 21:56 < jmil> delinquentme: are u gonna make it into a product? would be awesome 21:56 < delinquentme> jmil, http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/2128 21:57 < delinquentme> the "black" edition Hahah .. im such a sucker for marketing 21:57 < delinquentme> and totally right now I'm trying to come up with a good way to mold the concrete ballast ... 21:57 < delinquentme> after that I just need to code up the encoder controls and its ready to cut some acrylic 21:58 < jmil> nice 21:58 < jmil> dont use pololus tho 21:58 < delinquentme> yeah man when I've got the schematics finished up ill shoot you an image 21:58 < delinquentme> no? 21:58 < delinquentme> I've got one now thats worked phenomenally 21:58 < jmil> get the chips on the new rambo board and the firmware that lets you do everything digitally (microstepping AND current setting) 21:58 < jmil> THEN and only then will it be hands free for the user 21:59 < delinquentme> I saw you were using some special board 21:59 < jmil> no tuning a shitty trimpot you can break off, etc etc 21:59 < jmil> johnnyr is a genius 21:59 < jmil> rambo? 21:59 < jmil> awww kthx is not in here? 21:59 < delinquentme> is that this driver you're talking about 21:59 < jmil> no ask "rambo?" in @reprap 21:59 < jmil> #reprap 22:00 < delinquentme> not there 22:00 < delinquentme> you've got the link in the documentation right? 22:00 < delinquentme> I'll take a look at it ... 22:00 < delinquentme> also Id like to be able to mount it on an arduino shield 22:00 < jmil> basically i've built or overseen the build of a couple dozen repraps. the pololus are one of the WEAKEST links. 22:00 < jmil> SOOOO many headaches due to pololus 22:01 < jmil> rambo fixes absoutely every problem with pololu. 22:01 < delinquentme> ( I'm gonna build out the arduino Uno ... and its kind of "favorably displayed" 22:01 < jmil> no potentiometer to fuck with, no jumpers to jimmy back and forth 22:01 < delinquentme> so I'm kinda hoping it would get some exposure 22:01 < delinquentme> now editing the firmware ... 22:01 < jmil> uno would be really nice 22:01 < delinquentme> that requires additional hardware does it not? 22:01 < jmil> http://reprap.org/wiki/Rambo 22:01 < delinquentme> like aren't you talking about a serial programmer to edit stuff? 22:02 < jmil> delinquentme: i mean look at the chips johnnyr is using for the stepper controller. get those 22:03 < jmil> and see in marlin how the deal with microstepping via software 22:03 < jmil> all of this is firmware you can flash onto arduino 22:03 < jmil> no serial programmer 22:03 < jmil> you just need to graft it onto arduino uno 22:03 < jmil> THEN when you have a new motor config you ship a new firmware and done and done the user is up and running 22:04 < delinquentme> heere we go: they may be willing to sell the controller that I am using (from JohnYang.com). 22:04 < delinquentme> that is *not* the rambo driver you're talking about? 22:04 < jmil> no shitty pololu overheating or they stripped the potentiometer (seen WAAY too many times) 22:04 < jmil> johnyang board is good for pololus 22:04 < jmil> but i'm saying don't use pololus 22:05 < delinquentme> I mean if I can set shit like the trim pots in software via the arduino 22:05 < delinquentme> thats awesome 22:05 < jmil> YES. 22:05 < delinquentme> yeah so I should just go find "rambo?" 22:05 < delinquentme> in #reprap 22:05 < delinquentme> and hell have the details? 22:05 < jmil> i just put the link above 22:05 < delinquentme> http://reprap.org/wiki/Rambo 22:05 < jmil> scroll up 22:05 < delinquentme> that sucker?! 22:05 < jmil> yes 22:05 < delinquentme> thats like a motherboard! 22:05 < jmil> yes but don't get confused 22:06 < jmil> it is an arduino chip wired to think it is a MEGA with 5 stepper drivers on it 22:06 < jmil> find the stepper chips on there 22:06 < jmil> t 22:06 < jmil> he 22:06 < jmil> n 22:06 < jmil> then look for the marlin config that has that 22:06 < jmil> i have one in my branch 22:06 < jmil> then graft that onto an arduino uno 22:06 < jmil> then you will be WIN 22:07 < jmil> the chips he found can put out more current and NEVER overheat even at full tilt 22:07 < delinquentme> haha Ok so .. figure out which stepper driver CHIP.. is used here: 22:07 < jmil> amazing 22:07 < jmil> ness 22:07 < jmil> yes 22:07 < delinquentme> and then make some kind of breakout board for it 22:07 < kanzure> brownies: did you see this "convertible notes in a box" thing? https://www.clerky.com/ hah. 22:07 < delinquentme> hook it up w the arduino and im golden 22:07 < jmil> yes 22:07 < jmil> it would be a VERY small shield 22:08 < delinquentme> yeah 22:08 < jmil> just a plate of those chips, a power connector, and prolly some nice display 22:08 < delinquentme> I'll see if anyone makes one already 22:09 < delinquentme> yeah I've got the controls down to be mad clean 22:09 < delinquentme> OK 22:09 < delinquentme> i gotta get back to this VM 22:09 < delinquentme> thanks jmil 22:09 < jmil> delinquentme: here is a version of marlin where you can see how johnnyr did the software based microstepping and current settings: https://github.com/jmil/Marlin/tree/komodo_dev 22:10 < jmil> cool. good night and good luck! lemme know if i can help. i'd love to see your design or even early sketches 22:10 < brownies> kanzure: yeah, some people on HN were saying they used it 22:12 < delinquentme> tanks! 22:15 -!- Mokbortolan_1 [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:15 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:19 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-101-208-182.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:32 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-101-208-182.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:35 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:43 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-98-66.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:48 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Quit: jmil] 23:37 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@213.37.172.235.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:55 -!- soylentbomb [~k@unaffiliated/soylentbomb] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] --- Log closed Thu Sep 06 00:00:18 2012