--- Log opened Tue Oct 02 00:00:43 2012
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03:11 < Mokstar> jrayhawk: damn you!
03:11  * Mokstar finally got around to watching the last bit of that talk, and discovered that he shouldn't be eating peanuts, which means no peanut butter.
03:14 < strangewarp> oh god, what's wrong with my beloved peanuts?
03:15 < Mokstar> just forget I said anything, improved health is not worth the loss of peanut butter
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03:16 < strangewarp> Mokstar: sgjfdjfhjkh
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03:40 < brownies> no peanuts?
03:40 < brownies> hmm... well, given the lack of response, i'll just double down on Nutella instead.
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04:20 < archels> Mokstar: URL? I start the day each day with a peanut butter sandwich... :\
04:23 < Mokstar> I was just watching a bit of a talk on the biochemistry behind the paleo diet, at least, the biochemistry behind why legumes are bad
04:23 < Mokstar> rather than prattle off a bunch of long words I just learned, lemme see if I can find a link...
04:23 < Mokstar> at least, something that doesn't reek of crackpot
04:24 < archels> legumes are bad?!
04:25 < archels> oh, I feel rather stupid now, not knowing that peanuts are legumes.
04:26 < Mokstar> it seems they'd rather us not eat them
04:26 < Mokstar> and they reinforce this by including various poisons in them
04:26 < Mokstar> true, we can in fact consume them, and survive for extended periods, but not without certain costs
04:27 < Mokstar> but, this is stuff I'm just learning, and I'd like to not sound like someone who learns something and then immediately runs around spouting it off
04:27 < archels> Would be very interested in following up on any non-crackpot links.
04:32 < Mokstar> something to do with lectin and trypsin inhibitors
04:37 < brownies> legumes are bad?!
04:40 < chris_99> Mokstar, linky?
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04:58 < brownies> this is how he rolls
04:58 < brownies> he just comes in, badmouths various legumes, and then vanishes
04:58 < Mokstar1> pretty much
04:58 < Mokstar1> you want *evidence*?
04:58 < brownies> haha. yes!
04:58 < Mokstar1> who needs evidence, we're talking about diet here!
04:58 < brownies> "science"
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05:01 < chris_99> heh, what Mokstar1?!!!
05:03 < Mokstar1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectin#Toxicity
05:05 < Mokstar1> I'm just reading about the case against legumes in general in the context of "the paleo diet"
05:05 < Mokstar1> not really trying to make a case, just grousing about what I'm reading :)
05:05 < brownies> "may be harmful if consumed in excess in uncooked or improperly cooked form."
05:05 < chris_99> i was just about to paste that heh
05:06 < chris_99> Mokstar1, you know the same is true of water
05:06 < Mokstar1> I ead it's implicated in nearly 100% of drownings
05:06 < Mokstar1> also found in every tumor sample ever tested
05:07 < Mokstar1> but, to be logical, just because water is dangerous if consumed in excess does not make peanuts "safe" when consumed in moderation
05:08 < Mokstar1> they're unrelated really, in fact I'm not sure why you brought that up
05:08 < chris_99> heh
05:09 < Mokstar1> I'm sure that's a named fallacy
05:09 < Mokstar1> misattribution?
05:09 < brownies> well, peanuts are, you know, edible
05:09 < Mokstar1> I'd never make the case that they were inedible
05:09 < Mokstar1> in fact, I'd boldly make the case that they are f*cking delicious
05:09 < brownies> so unless you have proof that peanuts are *un* safe in moderation... i'm stickin' with my sandwiches.
05:10 < brownies> well, more than that, people seem to have been munching on peanuts for thousands of years and doing just fine.
05:11 < Mokstar1> accepted, but the context of the discussion in which I'm encountering this information has more to do with "peak performance" or somesuch
05:11 < brownies> that's fair. but i still don't see any evidence that they degrade performance either.
05:11 < Mokstar1> you can feed rats GM corn, and they will survive and breed, but they will also grow tennis-ball sized tumors at a slightly higher rate than rats that eat non-GM corn
05:11 < brownies> this seems to only be concerned with the genetically inferior among us http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut#Health_concerns
05:12 < Mokstar1> don't judge me! I didn't ask for allergies!
05:13  * Mokstar1 sneezes on brownies.
05:13 < Mokstar1> I certainly hope you are eating organic peanut butter
05:13 < Mokstar1> preferably grown on the west coast
05:14  * Mokstar1 buys it by the 3-gal pail.
05:32 < brownies> heh
05:33 < brownies> yeah, i always buy the hippie organic free-range cage-free omega-3 peanut-butter
05:33 < brownies> the sort that always separates out a nice oily layer on top
05:33 < brownies> though i do have a nostalgic weakness for the classic American mass-produced peanut butter too
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05:34 < Mokstar1> emulsifiers FTW!
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06:22 < skorket> hey kanzure, DIY vitamin D testing?
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08:10 <@kanzure> hmm.
08:13 < jrayhawk> "may be harmful if consumed in excess in uncooked or improperly cooked form." PNA is heat-stable and permeates the gut barrier.
08:14 < jrayhawk> There is no 'moderate' amount to consume.
08:15 <@kanzure> craaap
08:15 <@kanzure> github!
08:15 <@kanzure> so i copied the node.js repository and filter-branched it to rewrite it in my name
08:16 <@kanzure> naturally, github linked up all of the commits that referenced issues to the official node.js repository
08:16 <@kanzure> https://github.com/isaacs/node-graceful-fs/issues/6#commit-ref-eae1d21
08:16 <@kanzure> so apparently i spammed the entire node.js project
08:17 < jrayhawk> Can you overwrite that branch? does github ever GC?
08:17 <@kanzure> i deleted the repository with the commits rewritten in my name
08:18 < jrayhawk> i wonder if that makes it more or less likely to GC
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08:29 <@kanzure> welp, i've sent a request to github support. may the gods have mercy on my soul.
08:29 <@kanzure> may the gods have mercy on my version controlled soul.
08:30 < jrayhawk> Obviously you should be doing this on Piny.
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08:34 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: well, the idea was to use it as a way to filter out recruiters who think i am the author of nodejs
08:34 <@kanzure> and those recruiters only use github, not piny.
08:35 < jrayhawk> i should make a repository index, but that sounds like work
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08:37 <@kanzure> i thought that's what cgit is?
08:37 <@kanzure> hey uh can you throw more space on fairlystable? i'm hitting the on button in the next few days
08:37 < jrayhawk> How much do you want
08:38 <@kanzure> how much is convenient?
08:39 < jrayhawk> Eh, I'll give you another 90 gigs and let the filesystem monitor bug me about more
08:39 <@kanzure> cool thanks
08:40 < jrayhawk> done
08:41 <@kanzure> bah last time you made it out to be some big deal?
08:42 < jrayhawk> Well, last time it was a big deal, so I asked you to give me some warning so I could install new drives.
08:42 < jrayhawk> And you did.
08:42 < jrayhawk> And I did.
08:42 <@kanzure> ah the system works
08:43 < jrayhawk> at least marginally!
08:54 < jrayhawk> http://www.omgwallhack.org/home/jrayhawk/img/hovel/100_2536.JPG also it forced me to finally find a good means of organizing and storing my harddrives
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09:18 < audy> jrayhawk wow
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10:33 < Mokstar> jrayhawk: damn you and your facts!
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10:34 < jrayhawk> If it makes you feel better, the immunological case against PNA is still fairly weak and circumstancial.
10:35 < jrayhawk> but eliminating it seems to work real well
10:37 <@kanzure> nanowrimo is so pathetic
10:38 <@kanzure> "Do you have that next GREAT novel in your head?"
10:38 <@kanzure> "Have you ever felt challenged to write 1000 words a DAY?"
10:38 < brownies> kanzure: maybe spammers will try to recruit you now
10:38 <@kanzure> 1000 words? i think i type 20000 a day. on average.
10:38 < brownies> sure, but most of them are gibberish
10:38 <@kanzure> :)
10:38 <@kanzure> brownies: well, i emailed github support, hopefully they will fix my spam problem
10:39 <@kanzure> i'm getting email notifications from all of the support tickets ever
10:39 <@kanzure> i completely regret this
10:45 < brownies> too bad you deleted the repo already
10:45 < brownies> otherwise you should've posted it as a Show HN ... "I made a realtime web framework in JS for backend code"
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12:22 < BioGuy> I was just scrolling back through the buffer and saw your discussion about github? Do you know of any books/resources on how open source communities and meritocracy works?
12:22 <@kanzure> most of the books i've seen on that tend to suck, they rarely tell you how to use the tools.
12:23 <@kanzure> if you want a "cultural" look, maybe read 'two bits' maybe.
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12:24 < Urchin> Eric Raymond's articles are good for the cultural view
12:24 < brownies> *a cultural view
12:25 <@kanzure> http://twobits.net/pub/Kelty-TwoBits.pdf
12:26 <@kanzure> BioGuy: you might also enjoy http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/biopunk.pdf
12:28 < BioGuy> Ya I'm more interested in how the communities actually function in a way that anyone can contribute, yet some how everything is kept clean and the best ideas flourish. I figure I can teach myself how to use the tools, but what I'm more interested in is how you can allow anyone to contribute to a project without it devolving into somekind of anarchy
12:28 < BioGuy> Thanks for the links!
12:29 <@kanzure> oh that's easy, i just reject all the crap that sucks
12:30 <@kanzure> or, there are requirements that have to be followed
12:30 <@kanzure> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/SubmittingPatches
12:31 < BioGuy> Is that the entire biopunk book?
12:31 <@kanzure> yes
12:32 < BioGuy> Wow! Thanks. I've been wanting to get it but a lot of other things have been eating up the small amount of money I have :-)
12:37 < jrayhawk> Benjamin Mako Hill and Biella Coleman wrote a thing http://mako.cc/writing/coleman_hill-social_production.pdf
12:38 < jrayhawk> Benjamin Mako Hill is pretty good in general at connecting philosophy and practicality
12:39 <@kanzure> "The philosophy of submitting diff output as email attachments"
12:39 <@kanzure> don't think it works like that
12:39 < jrayhawk> http://blog.iese.edu/ferraro/files/2012/01/091215-Chapter-18-Ferraro-OMahony.pdf http://blog.iese.edu/ferraro/files/2011/05/The-emergence-of-governance-in-an-open-source-community.pdf
12:41 <@kanzure> also other things here
12:41 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/open-source/
12:42 < jrayhawk> oh right
12:42 <@kanzure> hrm?
12:43 < jrayhawk> i should've expected you to have hoarded a collection of those
12:44 <@kanzure> "including 45 audiotaped developer life histories" hah
12:47 < BioGuy> Bookmarked! Thanks you guys
12:48 < BioGuy> Kanzure I forgot now, who did you say the people were in the portland area?
12:48 <@kanzure> jrayhawk, Mokstar, nmz787 (soon), lichen
12:48 <@kanzure> possibly bkero. i don't know where he is these days.
12:48 < BioGuy> jrayhawk: Have you met up with anyone from Portland?
12:49 <@kanzure> didn't you two plan to go climbing today?
12:50 < jrayhawk> I received interest but not confirmation.
12:50 < BioGuy> Nah, I'm pretty busy this week. Maybe next week
12:50 < BioGuy> Though I should warn you I'm pretty out of shape :-)
12:50 < jrayhawk> I briefly met up with Mokstar to propagandize him, but I don't think more than fifty words were exchanged.
12:51 < Mokstar> hah! we were busy watching a beefy research scientist
12:51 < Mokstar> isn't there a rule about scientist bodyfat percentages?
12:52 < jrayhawk> His name is non-alliterative, so he can't possibly be a superhero in disguise.
12:52 < jrayhawk> Bryan Bishop on the other hand...
12:53 < jrayhawk> he's a pokemon master trainer
12:53 < Mokstar> (aka, dogfight enthusiast)
12:53 < jrayhawk> I met nmz787.
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12:57 < jrayhawk> http://www.meetup.com/Portland-Paleo-Project/ Speaking of propaganda, Mokstar, if you're interested in hearing 20-40 people say "I lost fifty pounds and a pile of autoimmune diseases" there's a meetup tomorrow.
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12:57 < jrayhawk> "pile of metabolic and autoimmune diseases"
12:58 < Mokstar> I'd rather go somewhere to hear, "Here's 50 pounds of bacon, free!"
12:58 < Mokstar> I'm sorely tempted to give that guy his $99
12:58 < jrayhawk> mark sisson and chris kresser do contests like that
12:59 < jrayhawk> i think chris kresser has one going on right now, but it's for beef
12:59 < jrayhawk> last month mark sisson did a contest for a whole cow
13:00 < BioGuy> What were you seeking to 'propogandize' Mokstar about?
13:00 < jrayhawk> It was a nutrition biochemistry seminar. You might like it.
13:01 < Mokstar> he's trying to get me to join VLF ("Vegetable Liberation Front")
13:01 < BioGuy> Sounds interesting
13:01 < Mokstar> yeah, basically we liberate produce from factory farms
13:01 < BioGuy> Like PETA for veggies ;-P
13:02 < jrayhawk> i like my tubers free-range and grass-fed
13:02 < jrayhawk> rBST-free
13:02 < Mokstar> and we leave them in nature, so they can live fulfilling lives
13:03 < Mokstar> and be devoured by woodland creatures, like God intended
13:05 < jrayhawk> anyway, Mokstar, Lalonde says he's making a new one in the next six months, so you may want to hold off
13:09 < BioGuy> I might be intersted in doing a paleo diet. I practically was already on one for a while when I had to cut out all mostly all added sugars for a few months and limit starches + I have gluten allergies.
13:10 < BioGuy> Though I would think you would want your meat consumption to be only about 1/3 of your meal
13:11 < BioGuy> gotta run
13:12 < jrayhawk> depends on the goals, depends on the meat. The human body is typically limited to somewhere around 35-45 percent of calories from protein; after that you get rabbit starvation.
13:12 < jrayhawk> And usually before that you get diarrhea
13:12 < jrayhawk> But it's actually pretty hard to get up that high with real food; chicken is one of the few meats that lean.
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13:14 < jrayhawk> And, of course, there are other reasons to limit protein. If you're combatting renal failure or cancer or adipose tissue or severe neurological problems or some autoimmune diseases, you want to maintain as hardcore a ketogenic state as possible and gluconeogenesis from protein will undermine that.
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13:19 < jrayhawk> I personally haphazardly add tallow and/or coconut oil to everything I eat.
13:19 <@kanzure> one of the nyc biohackers is named "Gabriel Hammarquist"
13:19 <@kanzure> i think that's a reasonable option for jenna's band
13:19 < jrayhawk> hmm. can't decide if i like that name better than mine.
13:20 < jrayhawk> chicken's a kinda crap meat anyway
13:20 < jrayhawk> rather high linoleic acid content
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13:25 < BioGuy> Ok still have several minutes... you ever have cow heart?
13:26 < jrayhawk> I had some this morning.
13:26 < jrayhawk> That is, admittedly, rather lean, too.
13:27 < BioGuy> I got some a while back at the Hillsdale farmers market. It was the only pasteur raised beef I could afford. It was pretty good. Don't know if I made it right though. I should get some more and maybe crock pot it.
13:27 < jrayhawk> The New Seasons on Interstate had a giant pile of pastured beef heart in the freezer for, like, $1.49/lb or something last week
13:28 < jrayhawk> might still be there
13:29 < jrayhawk> it's reasonably soft after a day of crocking
13:31 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: why is cpan asking me to configure it? it was working last year. if i just use all the defaults, it eventually asks me for a manual cpan mirror url, which i don't know off the top of my head.
13:32 < jrayhawk> Your $HOME/.cpan directory may have gotten wiped out, or you may be using a different one due to use of sudo -i or sudo -H
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13:32 < jrayhawk> I also thought it offered a list of mirrors or otherwise automated the selection part somehow
13:32 < BioGuy> Ok gotta run for real, talk to you all later
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13:35 < jrayhawk> You can typically call stores and ask their meet departments about special orders to get cheap perfectly good offal.
13:38 <@kanzure> well this is infuriating.
13:38 <@kanzure> isn't CPAN supposed to be the one thing reliably working on debian?
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13:40 <@kanzure> "New CPAN.pm version (v1.9800) available. Currently running version is v1.9402" ah.
13:46 <@kanzure> oh well. i'll just use http://www.perl.org/CPAN/.
13:49 <@kanzure> oh. http://www.perl.org/CPAN/MIRRORED.BY
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14:02 < jrayhawk> you should be using dh-make-perl anyway
14:02 < jrayhawk> "cpan working" is not a good thing
14:03 < jrayhawk> it's possible some of cpan's mirror indexing infrastructure is broken somewhere
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14:17 <@kanzure> neat, hod lipson's email password is in today's ultra dump
14:18 < bkero> kanzure: I'm in Portland.
14:18 < bkero> jrayhawk: I hear you're in Portland as well.
14:19 < bkero> kanzure: why are you not in Portland?
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14:25 <@kanzure> bkero: i am bad at being places
14:26 < bkero> kanzure: That's something that can be improved upon.
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14:30 <@kanzure> "Director, National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC)" only gets paid $11k/mo according to thsi dump
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15:03 <@kanzure> well that was a waste of time.
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15:48 < bkero> 132k/year
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16:50 < skorket> kanzure, so no literature on DIY vitamin D testing?
16:51 <@kanzure> correct. i lack a lot of stuff for blood tests.
16:52 < skorket> oh well
16:52 < skorket> thanks anyway
17:03 < skorket> hows the laser cutter coming?
17:04 <@kanzure> i forget
17:04 <@kanzure> you wouldn't happen to know why i'm getting "TypeError: argument of type 'property' is not iterable" from python2.7/site-packages/celery/backends/__init__.pyc in get_backend_by_url(backend, loader), would you?
17:05 < skorket> make sure you're passing it something it wants to be passed?
17:06 <@kanzure> i'm not calling it.
17:06 < skorket> __init__'s the constructor, no?
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17:34 <@kanzure> so copenhagen suborbitals has a custom video mixer they've released:
17:34 <@kanzure> http://sourceforge.net/projects/snowmix/
17:34 <@kanzure> http://raketvenner.dk/?p=689
17:35 <@kanzure> "s part of this effort, the CSS StreamTeam has released two of its projects as Open Source with more likely to follow. The two projects going Open Source are a High Definition IP Camera using a BeagleBone Computer and a web camera and a video mixer named Snowmix for mixing and producing live video."
17:35 <@kanzure> http://www.oz9aec.net/index.php/beaglebone/476-turning-the-beaglebone-into-a-high-definition-ip-camera
17:35 <@kanzure> "Besides help with testing the mixer, we are searching for someone that can help us develop a perhaps PHP/HTML based web interface for controlling the mixer to ease and support us when we produce the live streams. Should you be interested, drop us a note on the website at Sourceforge."
17:36 <@kanzure> haha so they seem to be making some weird decisions.. like sourceforge, and php. but otherwise looks good.
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17:37 < brownies> shall you be sending them a note via carrier pigeon?
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17:41 <@kanzure> brownies: well we have men on the ground in copenhagen, so i can just send some guys to go rough them up.
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17:43 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: hi
17:43 < yashgaroth> sup
17:43 < brownies> heh
17:46 < yashgaroth> careful, they booby-trap that place...one wrong step and boom! you're in the middle of a shock diamond
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20:58 <@kanzure> brownies: check this one out..
20:58 <@kanzure> http://www.columbia.edu/~pi17/mixer.pdf
20:58 <@kanzure> these guys monitored whether or not people actually met new people at conferences
20:58 <@kanzure> e.g. one of the stated goals of people who value in-person conferences so much is that they get to mingle with new people
20:58 <@kanzure> but apparently, they only say that, and don't actually do it.
21:05 < brownies> kind of a wandering, rambling paper
21:05 < brownies> "At the same time, guests did mix in the sense of
21:05 < brownies> encountering others who were different from themselves
21:05 < brownies> in terms of sex, race, education, and job."
21:05 < brownies> "Do people mix at mixers? The answer is no… and yes."
21:05 <@kanzure> "This suggests that guests may benefit from a commitment device that forces them to interact with strangers." haha
21:05 < brownies> clearly the sort of brilliant science that would come out of a business school.
21:05 <@kanzure> "the answer is... give us more funding"
21:06 < brownies> i skimmed over pieces of it, as they seem to have a rather boring writing style, but i get the impression they were unable to pick a model and stick to it
21:07 < brownies> my understanding is that the answer is "yes, people mix, but not as much as the maximum possible limit of mixing"
21:07 < brownies> which is not exactly a shocking revelation.
21:08 <@kanzure> you know what, i think this is a paper about their frat party
21:08 < brownies> it does appear to be about the eMBA program
21:08 < brownies> "we called our friends and asked if they would like to have free drinks out of our research budget"
21:09 < brownies> "a surprisingly high number said yes"
21:09 <@kanzure> look at the conclusions section, it's like "So Fred told us that he saw Tim again a few weeks ago, so that's at least something."
21:09 < brownies> hahah
21:09 < brownies> i mean, conferences are always hit-or-miss, and that's *okay*
21:09 <@kanzure> they use the word "encounters" as if someone in the equation is getting laid
21:09 < brownies> you go, you talk to 100 people, you follow up with 10 who are worthwhile, you end up with 1 biz-dev relationship.
21:11 < nmz787> I like seeing body language, mannerisms
21:11 <@kanzure> you're a freak
21:11 < nmz787> :(
21:11 < nmz787> ;(
21:12 <@kanzure> i suppose i sound much more evil when i'm not in person
21:12 < nmz787> hah hah yeah probably
21:12 < brownies> heh, a bit random, nmz787 but i agree... body language helps a lot
21:13 < nmz787> this is pretty much what I thought of kanzure http://www.comedycentral.com/video-clips/go8cre/chappelle-s-show-home-stenographer
21:14 < nmz787> hmm, there's some weird ad
21:15 < nmz787> ahh there's an X
21:15 < nmz787> in top right
21:16 < nmz787> (I thought of him as the mobile version)
21:16 < nmz787> "travel stenographer, backpack sold separately"
21:19 < brownies> haha
21:19 < brownies> that's not quite right. i'm sure kanzure types faster than that.
21:28 < nmz787> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v473/n7345/full/nature09913.html
21:28 < nmz787> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v489/n7417/full/nature11499.html
21:29 < nmz787> uploading fulltext now
21:29 < yashgaroth> please tell me you plan to combine those two somehow
21:29 < nmz787> http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/Crystal%20structure%20of%20oxygen-evolving%20photosystem%20II%20at%20a%20resolution%20of%201.9%20A.pdf
21:29 < nmz787> http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/Skin%20shedding%20and%20tissue%20regeneration%20in%20African%20spiny%20mice%20(Acomys).pdf
21:30 < nmz787> hulk skin?
21:30 < yashgaroth> photosynthetic skin flakes
21:31 < nmz787> mmm mmm good
21:32 < yashgaroth> you will be the first recipient of the yashgaroth fellowship's prestigious '1 Under 100' program...also the only recipient
21:33 < yashgaroth> also there's no money because I have none, but you get this certificate
21:34 < nmz787> whoo hoo!
21:34 < yashgaroth> certificate will arrive in 2-8 years
21:52 < nmz787> this is pretty cool too http://phys.org/news/2012-10-device-internet-download.html
21:52 < nmz787> "The device uses the force generated by light to flop a mechanical switch of light on and off at a very high speed. This development could lead to advances in computation and signal processing using light instead of electrical current with higher performance and lower power consumption."
21:52  * nmz787 thinks microfluidics
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22:39 <@kanzure> sparkfun guy keeps emailing me. hrm.
22:44 <@kanzure> "Bryan, real-world sourcing isn't supplier neutral."
22:45 <@kanzure> then what's the point of using common parts
22:45 <@kanzure> i think this guy is lying.
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23:04  * BioGuy waves to everyone.
23:04 <@kanzure> nmz787: BioGuy is a molecular biology person in portland
23:04 < nmz787> BioGuy: I'm moving to portland this month
23:05 < nmz787> i'm a biotech guy
23:08 < BioGuy> We should meet up when you get to Portland. I've been intersted in meeting people interested in DIYbio/biohacking/whatever you want to call it
23:09 < BioGuy> nmz787 Whats your background?
23:10 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Quit: the neuronal action potential is an electrical manipulation of reversible abrupt phase changes in the lipid bilayer]
23:12 < nmz787> BioGuy: nathanmccorkle.com/resume_09_2012.pdf
23:13 < nmz787> how about your background?
23:13 < nmz787> oh actually I'm no longer with berkeley, guess I need to break out the latex
23:13 <@kanzure> xelatex for life?
23:14 < nmz787> nah i'm not that into to remember the diff between xe and non-xr
23:14 < nmz787> xe
23:15 <@kanzure> oops i mean xetex
23:16 <@kanzure> eh, it's just an implementation of latex that works with unicode input
23:16 < BioGuy> nmz787 I definitely want to meet you, I should warn you though that you will definitely be able to run circles around me
23:16 <@kanzure> " It natively supports Unicode and the input file is assumed to be in UTF-8 encoding by default. XeTeX can use any fonts installed in the operating system without configuring TeX font metrics, and can make direct use of advanced typographic features of OpenType, AAT and Graphite technologies such as alternative glyphs and swashes, optional or historic ligatures, and variable font weights."
23:17 < nmz787> BioGuy: sure thing, I'd like to get to know some folks
23:19 < BioGuy> I just finished an associates degree program in bioscience technology. The program was more practical than theory. Though we foucussed quite a bit on cell culture, immunochemical methods (ELISA, western blots, etc), PCR, genetic engineering (plasmids, bacteria), protein purification methods
23:19 < nmz787> BioGuy: just in case you can help, I'm looking for a house/apt to rent, and some type of job (either bio/chem science or digging dirt/outdoors/forestry-related work)
23:19 < nmz787> oh cool, that would have been the route i took if I knew my local college had a biotech assoc
23:19 < BioGuy> What age group/type of people are you looking to live with?
23:20 < nmz787> but by the time I realized I was already away at a university
23:20 < nmz787> well it's my girlfriend and me
23:20 < nmz787> so preferably on our own, but if we roomed up we'd want to hang out with non-normal people
23:21 < BioGuy> I definitely wouldn't live downtown on the west side. There's usually good prices on the east side and west just west of downtown towards Beaverton
23:21 < nmz787> she's gonna be out at Intel in Hillsboro, so we were looking in Washington county
23:22 < nmz787> trying to keep the commute to 20 mins or so
23:22 < BioGuy> non-normal people? You might like the South East area
23:22 < nmz787> lol
23:22 < nmz787> i mean people that talk about science instead of watching TV
23:23 < brownies> nmz787: oh you're in berkeley? wild
23:23 < nmz787> brownies: for all but last summer I was remote
23:23 < BioGuy> I have a 2 bedroom right now just off of hwy 26 and not far from Hillsboro and only about a 5 minute drive back into downtown PDX. Only pay about $930
23:23 < brownies> nmz787: oh ok
23:23 < brownies> i like the little icons you put in your latex resume. it's a very nice touch.
23:24 < nmz787> the phone?
23:24 < nmz787> and email?
23:24 < brownies> yeah
23:24 < nmz787> BioGuy: yeah that price sounds about right
23:24 < nmz787> brownies: :)
23:24 < brownies> i award you the award of "first latex resume i've seen that's better-looking than mine"
23:24 < nmz787> there are plenty of apartments but a few nice houses too
23:25 < bkero> I could be the second :P
23:25 < bkero> BioGuy: Just moved from Beaverton to Northeast.
23:26 < bkero> Have a nice 3br 3 story townhouse
23:26 < nmz787> if we can't arrange something online, we'll either camp out in someone in this IRCs yard/field... or if my gf doesn't want to rough it before heading to Intel I guess we can get a motel
23:28 < nmz787> when we stayed in berkeley last summer we arranged the apartment totally online, for the price and location it was pretty decent, but the fridge was about to fall through the floor... we made sure not to jump in the kitchen
23:30 < nmz787> BioGuy: I think there is a meetup.com for diybio or biohacking in portland that has a waiting list but no organizer or history of actually meeting
23:30 < nmz787> so we can change that
23:30 < BioGuy> bkero we should meet up to
23:31 < BioGuy> nmz787: I saw that the other day. A bunch of us on here should meetup and make it active.
23:31 <@kanzure> meetup.com has a maintenance fee that they charge the organizer. i don't think it's worth it.
23:31 < nmz787> ooo
23:31 < nmz787> I didn't know that
23:31 < BioGuy> I need more Bio people to talk... those that are actually interested in the science and technology
23:32 <@kanzure> well, you're in the right place
23:32 < nmz787> http://www.freemeeting.com/ isn't what I thought it would/should be
23:32 < BioGuy> I didn't realized meetup.com had a fee either. How much is it to organize a meetup
23:33 <@kanzure> $20/month or year or something. either way, it's pretty silly.
23:33 < nmz787>  what's a pdx zip code?
23:33 <@kanzure> it's cheaper to slap up your own website than use meetup.com, hah
23:33 < BioGuy> $20/year would be fine...not per month though.
23:33 < nmz787> there's this list http://www.groupomatic.com/?search=1&zip_code=97218&country=US&type=-1&distance=50
23:34 < BioGuy> nmz787 theres several zips
23:34 < nmz787> we could get a spot right next to the christian activity group
23:34 < nmz787> hmm, is this somehow better than google groups?
23:35 < bkero> BioGuy: Yeah, sure.  I've got some time later this week.
23:35 < bkero> nmz787: 97212
23:37 < BioGuy> Looks like $12/month to start a group on meetup.com - might be worth it
23:39 < BioGuy> Google groups might be a good idea to start a PDX DIYBio group
23:39 < BioGuy> bkero: Are you near BrainSilo?
23:39 < nmz787> have you heard this quote: http://www.hhmi.org/bulletin/summer2004/janelia/
23:40 < nmz787> "Day science calls into play arguments that mesh like gears, results that have the force of certainty. ... Conscious of its progress, proud of its past, sure of its future, day science advances in light and glory. By contrast, night science wanders blind. It hesitates, stumbles, recoils, sweats, wakes with a start. Doubting everything, it is forever trying to find itself, question itself, pull itself back together. Night 
23:40 < nmz787> possible where what will become the building material of science is worked out."
23:40 < nmz787> —François Jacob
23:40 < nmz787> Of Flies, Mice, and Men
23:41 < nmz787> kanzure: know anyone here http://www.nightscience.org/#!workshop-2012/vstc3=guests
23:45 < BioGuy> Reminds me as if 'night science' are all the natural phenomena that are perceived in peoples minds, which percolate and eventually give rise to a new field of science - which I suppose would be 'day science'
23:48 < bkero> BioGuy: Northeast, forget where brain silo is
23:49 < BioGuy> bkero: Its just off of Tillamook and Interstate
23:50 < bkero> BioGuy: yeah, I'm very near there
23:50 < bkero> when I last checked, BrainSilo didn't have any equipment though
23:50 < nmz787> http://www.groupomatic.com/pzac0huz
23:50 < nmz787> ok there's that
23:50 < BioGuy> I've been working on trying to make a bit of a lab space there. We could meet there
23:51 < bkero> That would work
23:51 < bkero> I'm free on thursday.
23:51 < bkero> Tomorrow is hecklevision at the Hollywood Theatre, Friday is a Wax Tailor concert.
23:52 < bkero> This weekend I'm heading out to SakeOne in Forest Grove.
23:52 < nmz787> bkero and BioGuy, do you like to hike?
23:52 < bkero> I do, but I never get the opportunity.
23:53 < nmz787> is time different from opportunity?
23:53 < nmz787> maybe we could all meet in forest park when I get there
23:53 < BioGuy> Not too much to look at but I figure its a start: http://www.flickr.com/logout_ok.gne?y=1
23:54 < bkero> Yes
23:54 < bkero> I often have the time, but don't know of much hiking around here.
23:54 < nmz787> BioGuy: bad link
23:54 < bkero> and nobody to go with
23:54 < bkero> I last did a 4 day hike alone
23:54 < BioGuy> Oh! I love to hike!
23:54 < bkero> apparently multi-day hikes alone are not recommended
23:54 < nmz787> ahh, ok well we definitely want to get out, its a big part of why we're moving out there!
23:55 < BioGuy> Now finding people to do it with and sharing gas $ is a different story
23:55 < nmz787> i've got a nice big backpack and tent and sleeping bag, camp stove, etc
23:55  * bkero has a nice townhouse with garage, so I get to keep my car.
23:56 < bkero> I've got everything but some good hiking shoes.
23:56 < BioGuy> hrmm does this one work? http://www.flickr.com/photos/85157430@N07/sets/72157631108569316/
23:56 < nmz787> yes
23:56 < nmz787> what do they charge you for that?
23:57 < BioGuy> Should warn you though. I like hiking, but don't get to do it that often and am pretty out of shape at the moment
23:57 < nmz787> is that a UV transilluminator?
23:57  * bkero can hike a distance, but doesn't do great in heat+sunlight
23:57 < BioGuy> At brainsilo? They ask about $40/month and you can pretty much do whatever you want. $20 if your a student
23:58 < nmz787> not too bad
23:58 < nmz787> 30 mins from hillsboro, if we end up there rather than closer to portland
23:58 < BioGuy> blue light box
23:58 < nmz787> I really liked the area where jrayhawk lives
23:58 < BioGuy> works with sybr-safe
23:58  * bkero would love if brainsilo had some equipment.  I've got a garage for some space.
23:59 < nmz787> near that germantown rd
23:59 < bkero> That gizmos shop is out there on Cornelius Pass/Germantown
23:59 < bkero> Surplus Gizmos
23:59 < BioGuy> what part of town does jrayhawk live in?
--- Log closed Wed Oct 03 00:00:11 2012