--- Log opened Thu Oct 25 00:00:05 2012
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00:40 < chido> kanzure: did you ever come across someone named Daniel Georgiev in connection with DIYbio/hplus? apparently he just came from the US and is trying to set up a synthetic biology lab near Prague
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00:41 < Mariu> neat
00:42 < chido> kanzure: afaik he's more into cybernetics than biology but I might go check him out
00:44 < skorket> I find it confusing that Japan is 5-10 years ahead of us technologically but all the DIY, maker, and a significant amount of open source seems to come from the states
00:50 < skorket> http://www.technologyreview.com/view/429749/physicists-discover-new-way-to-spot-malaria-using-light-and-magnets/
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01:48 < bkero> nmmaybe
01:48 < bkero> oh hes gone
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06:40 < Ksaturn> So, to an interested observer, what is the current state of affairs here?
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09:26 <@kanzure> ksaturn: you have to stay around at least 10min to get a response
09:27 < Mariu> lol
09:27 <@kanzure> chido: i only know a Svetlana Georgieva and Andrian Georgiev and Nikolay Georgiev (nikolay dumped some money into biocurious)
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09:54 <@kanzure> http://nanoengineer-1.net/htaccess.txt
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09:56 <@kanzure> http://nanoengineer-1.net/videos/NE1%20tutorials/DNA%20tutorials/
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09:57 <@kanzure> i guess i should dump those on youtube
10:04 <@kanzure> Sebastian Berning et al., Nanoscopy in a living mouse brain, Science, 2012, DOI: 10.1126/science.1215369
10:04 <@kanzure> Wolfgang Mittmann et al., Two-photon calcium imaging of evoked activity from L5 somatosensory neurons in vivo, Nature Neuroscience, 2011, DOI: 10.1038/nn.2879
10:05 <@kanzure> Shawn Mikula, Jonas Binding, Winfried Denk., Staining and Embedding the Whole Mouse Brain for Electron Microscopy, Nature Methods, 2012, DOI:10.1038/nmeth.2213
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11:55 < nmz787> kanzure:  nanoengineer-1.net bug/vulberability?
12:06 < jrayhawk> nmz787: My normal climbing partner has abandoned me for the weekend; are you interested in bouldering sometime in the next five days?
12:06 < nmz787> hmm, we're hoping to move into a house on saturday, my shoes are packed so we need to unpack first
12:07 < nmz787> we saw a pumpkin patch that said it had 'haunted woods', would you like to join us for that?
12:07 < nmz787> tomorrow or saturday night
12:07 < nmz787> it was not too far from you
12:07 < nmz787> near union rd
12:08 < nmz787> jrayhawk: after unpacking my shoes I'll definitely come bouldering. Chandni also has shoes
12:09 < jrayhawk> Dat's cool. I normally go on Sunday anyway, so hopefully timing on that will work out just fine.
12:10 < jrayhawk> Hmm. google maps is not coughing up a useful location for 'haunted woods'.
12:12 < nmz787> hmm
12:12 < jrayhawk> the sauvie island activity farm is usually fairly entertaining
12:12 < nmz787> i will drive by again and remember the farm name
12:13 < jrayhawk> http://www.portlandmaze.com/ http://thepumpkinpatch.com/ etc.
12:14 < nmz787> is sauvie island actually and island in middle of water?
12:14 < nmz787> ahh here is the one i saw http://www.plumperpumpkins.com/pumpkinpatch/pumpkinpatch.htm
12:15 < jrayhawk> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=sauvie+island of sorts
12:15 < nmz787> it doesnt mention haunted woods, but I'm pretty sure it was that one
12:15 < jrayhawk> insofar as you need to cross a bridge to get to it
12:16 < nmz787> The mcdonalds i'm using wifi at here in hillsboro has 3 gamecube stations for kids
12:16 < jrayhawk> huh, clever
12:16 < jrayhawk> much cheaper and lower liability than a play structure!
12:18 < nmz787> ahh yeah sauvie island definitely looks like an island
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12:35 < jrayhawk> kanzure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5T81yHkHtI pokemon yellow full memory overwrite
12:35 < jrayhawk> i am probably late to the party on that one, i guess
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15:43 < idea> future rulez!
15:44 < idea> nobody out there?
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15:47 < idea> i want to be a cyborg since I can think
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15:52 < ThomasEgi> idea, long way to go
15:52 < idea> dont think so :)
15:53 < ThomasEgi> you can't buy a cyborg kit atm. so you have to build everything yourself.
15:53 < idea> there are many ways that lead to this goal
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15:54 < ThomasEgi> yeah. there are possiblilities. but , exploiting them still is a lot of work.
15:54 < idea> and expensive, yep.. sucks. but i think if i survive 20,30 years things will be different
15:55 < idea> in fact if there would be a global revolution one could reach to technology like that easily in a decade
15:55 < ThomasEgi> hm.. yeah.. if.
15:55 < ThomasEgi> but.. there won't be any.
15:55 < idea> im not sure abput that one
15:55 < ThomasEgi> the way to go is the way of many small steps.
15:55 < ThomasEgi> and.. whatever you want, you have to do it yourself.
15:56 < ThomasEgi> leaning back and waiting for stuff to hit the stores won't really work
15:56 < idea> yea, thats not the plan.. i try both, working on a global revolution and getting into cyborg science
15:57 < ThomasEgi> i'd suggest you spend your time on science entirely
15:57 < ThomasEgi> revolution is for people with too much time. and too little knowledge about what they desire in life.
15:57 < idea> but i dont do good with both together, so yea. mostly study
15:58 < idea> i dont think so. there is the concept of a constructed revolution
15:58 < ThomasEgi> yeah and what do you gain?
15:58 < idea> a place to develop
15:58 < ThomasEgi> you can get that cheapr
15:58 < ThomasEgi> faster.
15:58 < ThomasEgi> and less illegal.
15:58 < idea> how?
15:59 < ThomasEgi> buy some plot of land and move there?
16:00 < ThomasEgi> all you need is a dry room, food and the right tools.
16:00 < ThomasEgi> why starting a revolution that might even get you killed one day?
16:00 < idea> because that is the only way things can realy change
16:00 < ThomasEgi> ... and who taught you that?
16:01 < ThomasEgi> and what exactly is it that you want to change?
16:02 < idea> its the consequence of my thoughts about society and its future development. i think humans will tend to build their own basically constructed architecture of environment. totally artificial as closed system
16:02 < idea> leave nature to let it develop and be free again of waste and destruction
16:04 < idea> besides its a solution for actual problems of overpopulation and unequal constraints of live
16:04 < ThomasEgi> and you really think that a revolution, where people have to fight for survival will increase their feelings for mother nature?
16:04 < idea> thats not my idea of revolution. there is no need to do any harm
16:04 < ThomasEgi> ok so you just want people to realize that they should back off and let nature do whatever nature does?
16:05 < ThomasEgi> i mean.. i do wish for the same. but it just wont happen as most people are flat out too lazy.
16:05 < idea> i think its an ethical consequence of human existence. besides we would be able to overcome most of todays societies problems
16:06 < ThomasEgi> i don't see that happen either
16:06 < ThomasEgi> society is constructed in a way it'll self destruct itself
16:06 < ThomasEgi> fueld by lazyness and increasing dependencies for each individual.
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16:07 < idea> i think there is a sufficient amount of people with the interest in participating in such a project
16:07 < ThomasEgi> there are
16:07 < ThomasEgi> but that wont cause a revolution
16:07 < idea> dont has to be everyone, a critical mass is sufficient
16:07 < ThomasEgi> there are a number of people who value nature and scientific progress. who are willing to evlove from society as it is today
16:08 < ThomasEgi> but you cant change those who are unwilling to do so. just leave them the way they are. focus on your work instead
16:08 < idea> i think exactly they have to gather and work in one general attempt to alter human society
16:09 < idea> i dont know. i think its disgusting how people tend to ignore the way the world is
16:09 < ThomasEgi> so.. you have a way to change it?
16:09 < idea> i got an idea, but though struggle with myself to get it started
16:10 < ThomasEgi> that's why i said. just focus on your own stuff.
16:10 < ThomasEgi> do what you can do. you can't save those who deny to be saved anyway
16:11 < idea> i would just like to get more in contact with people that think the same way
16:12 < ThomasEgi> as in, let society collapse and enjoy the event from your own little loghouse?
16:12 < idea> i think there is a solution for the problems we encouter today, and there is an optimal way to encounter this.. though we wont reach it exactly we can try to near ourselves this path. it would be civilization 2.0 everybode who wants can join or leave it
16:13 < ThomasEgi> see... sure there are sollutions. but people keep thinking about it instead of just doing it.
16:13 < ThomasEgi> because they keep thinking how to get everyone to do the same.
16:13 < ThomasEgi> just do it. forget about the rest. they don't even want to.
16:14 < ThomasEgi> most people just want to get their tvshow. and wallmart etc.
16:15 < idea> i would like to get something productive out of my disacceptance with modern society
16:15 < ThomasEgi> that's why i keep telling you to just don't bother with society.
16:16 < ThomasEgi> just do what you feel you need to do.
16:16 < ThomasEgi> don't let society keep you restrained
16:17 < idea> i think i feel the need to save the world..
16:18 < ThomasEgi> yeah.. so did i. u know what. the world refuses to be saved.
16:18 < idea> at least it bothers me too much what sick shit is going on
16:18 < ThomasEgi> for profit, and lazyness.
16:18 < ThomasEgi> yeah.
16:22 < idea> im jsut too impatient.. so i tend to wait and look instead of act. that f'cks me up
16:23 < ThomasEgi> i'd repeat myself again if i tell you to just do what you want to do, instead of bothering with such stuff.
16:25 < idea> ye.. still got no idea what that may be except being able to control my own thoughts in the way i want to
16:28 < ThomasEgi> i thought you wanted to become a cyborg?
16:29 < idea> yea, its the requirement to be able to change the neurochemical and genetic behavior of my body
16:32 < ThomasEgi> what does cyborg has to do with genetic and neurochemistry?
16:32 < ThomasEgi> i mean.. for neurochemical changes i'd rather recommend various psychoactives.
16:33 < ThomasEgi> and genetics... you better don't mess with them unless you really know what you are doing
16:33 < idea> cyborg is a uncertain concept, i mean that kind that has enhanced cognitive abilites and enhanced possibilites to take influence on his own nervous system
16:33 < idea> i tried meds, lucid dreaming, drugs, nootropics. its all not sufficient
16:34 < ThomasEgi> guess lsd is pretty close to what you describe
16:35 < ThomasEgi> but then you havent really despribed what exactly it is that you are trying to do in particular
16:36 < idea> yea but i tend to show no response on it, at least i was overdosing nearly everything massivley.. i just want to be free inside my brain
16:36 < idea> conciously define what to feel and think n so
16:37 < ThomasEgi> practice makes perfect. you don't need drugs for that.
16:38 < idea> thats what i came up with too
16:39 < ThomasEgi> cutting down on dependencies, especially dependencies towards society can help.
16:39 < ThomasEgi> but that's mostly an individual process.
16:41 < idea> everytime i sleep all my concepts and aims are resetted. and i need a whole day to get back to that stuff, always hated sleep
16:41 <@kanzure> does someone need to be banned
16:41 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, no?
16:41 <@kanzure> and/or any other emergencies
16:41 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o yashgaroth] by kanzure
16:41 < idea> just some ultimate nootropics needed
16:41 < ThomasEgi> we are just ranting bout society
16:42 <@kanzure> why?
16:42 <@kanzure> bleh
16:42 < ThomasEgi> many reasons
16:42 < idea> e.g. beeing embedded in one ^^
16:42 <@kanzure> your concepts about society suck and your society sucks
16:42 < ThomasEgi> mostly because big parts of it are ignorant and lazy and one is beeing almost forced to be part of it.
16:43 < idea> got a better idea kanzure?
16:43 <@kanzure> how about instead of ranting, you work on something productive
16:44 < idea> i lack of motivation without discussion
16:44 <@kanzure> that must be very debilitating
16:44 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, that's what i keep telling him
16:44 < idea> yes, sucks
16:45 <@kanzure> so basically you need someone to tell you what to be interested in?
16:45 < idea> someone telling me to do the stuff i want to do
16:45 < ThomasEgi> idea, i did about 8 times or so.. that's not enough?
16:46 < idea> it is! for now, but it will least again just until next day :/ at least until today it was so
16:46 <@kanzure> ThomasEgi: this doesn't sound like it's going anywhere
16:46 < ThomasEgi> true.
16:46 < ThomasEgi> but i'll be going somewhere
16:46 < ThomasEgi> the bed that is.
16:46 < idea> have fun there
16:47 < idea> thanks for communication
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17:54 < joshcryer> dumbass militant atheists likening cryonics to pascals wager = lulz
17:54 < joshcryer> good thing they'll be worm food and I don't have to worry about debating them
17:57 < jrayhawk> cryonics always struck me as naive TL2 thinking in a TL4 future
17:58 < nmz787> jrayhawk: what's TL2 or TL4?
18:00 < idea> tech lvl
18:00 < jrayhawk> err, SL2 and SL4
18:01 < jrayhawk> http://sl4.org/shocklevels.html
18:03 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: shame on you for getting the abbreviation wrong
18:03 < jrayhawk> intelligence advancement happens on a curve; the point at which arbitrary biological reconstruction for things like resurrection and immortality become practical is a point long past when an individual can catch up or, in fact, when individuality is going to retain much in the way of meaning.
18:04 < jrayhawk> human beings have mechanical utility, intellectual utility, and utility in the form of experiential and circumstantial diversity
18:04 < jrayhawk> all of these things are engineerable
18:05 < jrayhawk> at some point humans stop mattering; their entire utility-space will be encompassed
18:06 < idea> still i definitly gonna cryo myself if technology cant keep me alive sometime
18:07 < jrayhawk> i hope to live long enough to see an AI harvest humanity's atoms for paperclips
18:07 < jrayhawk> but i ain't gonna be too broken up about missing it
18:08 < idea> so nothing of the shock levels would have shocked me with 10, such subjective scales seem not so plausible to me
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18:11 < eudoxia> my main problem with cryo is not waking up in an incomprehensible h+ future, mostly just the fact that the organizations are horrible
18:11 < eudoxia> Ben Best experiments on "patients" and Alcor treats its "patients" as if they were corpses
18:11 < eudoxia> burr holes without irrigation, etc.
18:12 <@kanzure> we need a crazy cryonicist to go dig up skeletons and freeze them
18:12 <@kanzure> just for kicks
18:12 < eudoxia> already happened
18:12 < eudoxia> I think the guy's (skeleton's) name was Orville Richardson
18:13 < idea> so eventually someone will use his skeletton
18:13 < idea> also funny
18:13 < eudoxia> he was buried for a year idea
18:14 < idea> some ductape and enough biotech makes it fit
18:14 < idea> some postgothic maybe
18:14 < eudoxia> all those failed cryopreservations make me feel kinda sad
18:15 < idea> yea.. but who wanted to be waken up in this century anyway
18:16 < eudoxia> this century has been meh so far
18:16 < idea> indeed so. i want a 'what if' machine
18:17 < idea> would lay all day in bed and watch alternative realities
18:17 < eudoxia> that too would be pretty sad to watch
18:18 < idea> mh maybe
18:19 < joshcryer> jrayhawk, cryonics isn't to escape death, it's to retain information beyond death
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18:19 < jrayhawk> that information has a utility, and that utility is low by future standards
18:20 < joshcryer> sure, but the cost to retain it would be near zero by future standards
18:21 <@kanzure> retain isn't the problem
18:21 <@kanzure> it's recovery
18:21 <@kanzure> wait what am i saying
18:21 <@kanzure> don't listen to me
18:24 < joshcryer> eudoxia, but yeah, I'm going with CI (my mom, too). Never did like Alcor much though to Alcor's credit they do fight for their patients.
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18:26 <@yashgaroth> they do plenty of other stuff to their patients too
18:28 < joshcryer> The wackiest thing is that they put them in liquid nitrogen and propose that they'll be reanimated some day. :D
18:28 <@yashgaroth> "Johnson describes watching as another Alcor employee removed Williams' head from the freezer with a stick and tried to dislodge the tuna can by swinging at it with a monkey wrench.
18:28 <@yashgaroth> The technician, no .406 hitter like the baseball legend, missed the can with several swings of the wrench and smacked Williams' head directly, spraying "tiny pieces of frozen head" around the room." :D
18:29 < joshcryer> Heh!
18:29 < eudoxia> The wackiest thing was when Ben Best thought polyethylene glycol would inhibit edema and pumped Curtis Henderson full of a gel that halted perfusion and absolutely destroyed his brain
18:29 < joshcryer> 'tis but a scratch.
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18:43 < joshcryer> yashgaroth, for what it's worth Johnson disclaimed those observations, but who knows if that's just because he went bankrupt and was being sued or what.
18:44 <@yashgaroth> I've no idea if it's true; it just becomes more hilarious if it is
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20:48 < ParahSailin> oh fuck yashgaroth that made me cringe
20:48 <@yashgaroth> glad to help
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22:06 <@kanzure> beeep
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--- Log closed Fri Oct 26 00:00:06 2012