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07:04 <@kanzure> ?
07:04 < eudoxia> ??
07:08 < JayDugger> ?/?
07:08 < Mariu> =p
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13:46 <@kanzure> boop
13:46 <@kanzure> nano1: hi
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14:34 < nano1> hello?
14:35 < nano1> left my computer for a few to autoclave smthing
14:35 <@kanzure> nano1: are you also in portland?
14:35 < nano1> no, corvallis.  apparently that's where this freenode thing is set up, too!  suprising
14:36 < nano1> surprising
14:36 < nano1> what are you doing in p-town, kanzure?
14:36 <@kanzure> i'm not in p-town
14:36 < nano1> mm
14:37 < nano1> where?
14:37 <@kanzure> just lots of oregoners in here
14:37 <@kanzure> i'm in austin
14:37 < nano1> hehe
14:37 < nano1> cool
14:37 < nano1> austin is kinda like oregon in a sea of red :)
14:48 < nano1> Bryan, do you work with Nathan McCorkle?
14:49 <@kanzure> sometimes
14:49 < nano1> I saw a powerpoint about a Singularity University proposal.  Was that yours?
14:49 <@kanzure> yes.
14:49 < nano1> I've been looking for something like that.  A cheap synthesizer.
14:49 < nano1> Did you get it to work?
14:50 <@kanzure> nope not yet
14:50 < nano1> Dang.  Well, I'd like to talk to you guys about it later.  I've got an idea that I'd like to flesh out once I get some details on my project worked out.
14:50 < nano1> Can I get your email contact, or will I regularly be able to find you here?
14:51 <@kanzure> i am regularly on here. kanzure@gmail.com
14:51 < nano1> thank you
14:58 < nano1> btw, my name is Nathan Brown, please to make your acquaintance, kanzure
14:59 < nano1> pleased
14:59 < ThomasEgi> people.. introducing themselves with full name on the internet
14:59  * ThomasEgi scratches his head.
14:59 < nano1> oops. too trusting
14:59 < nano1> i don't do it much
15:01 <@kanzure> 1nathanbrown@gmail.com
15:01 <@kanzure> you and i met before via marcin jakubowski
15:01 < nano1> actually, russianconcussion@gmail.com
15:01 < nano1> sorry, we've never met
15:02 <@kanzure> well, i know another nathan brown
15:02 <@kanzure> so you can be nathan brown 2
15:02 < nano1> hehe! okay
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16:39 < AdrianG> Lilly predicted (or "prophesised", based on his ketamine-induced visions) a dramatic conflict between the two forms of intelligence.
16:39 < Lucas_> ?
16:39 < AdrianG> Solid State Intelligence or SSI is a malevolent entity described by John C. Lilly (see The Scientist). According to Lilly, the network of computation-capable solid state systems (electronics) engineered by humans will eventually develop (or has already developed) into an autonomous life-form. Since the optimal survival conditions for this life-form (low-temperature vacuum) are drastically differen
16:39 < AdrianG> t from those needed by humans (room temperature aerial atmosphere and adequate water supply), Lilly predicted (or "prophesised", based on his ketamine-induced visions) a dramatic conflict between the two forms of intelligence.[citation needed]
16:40 < yashgaroth> k
16:40 < Lucas_> I doubt it will pan out that way
16:41 < AdrianG> ketamine doesnt lie
16:42 < Lucas_> Intelligence doesn't necessarily require desire.  That being said, if a machine began making decisions for itself there would be groups of people dumb enough to try to harm it, but there would be a slew of people fighting for its personhood
16:42 < Lucas_> aren't we close to recognizing other mammals as "persons"?
16:42 < AdrianG> who gives a shit about that
16:43 < Lucas_> about what?
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16:46 < AdrianG> about recognizing mammals as persons. its retarded.
16:47 < nano1> I agree.  My cousin thinks that sugar gliders are people and it's messed her up
16:48 < Lucas_> how are we going to talk about respecting AI or extraterrestrial species if we can't do the same to other species here?
16:48 < sylph_mako> Put off respecting AI as people for as long as we can. They must remain tools.
16:49 < Lucas_> why?
16:49 < Lucas_> Is that not slavery?
16:49 < sylph_mako> There's nothing wrong with slavery if the slaves are designed for it.
16:49 < yashgaroth> what sort of cutoff should we have for non-humans? mammals, vertebrates, large computer programs?
16:49 < antifas> tbh most humans should only be recognized as animals
16:49 < antifas> till they can pass some sort of test
16:49 < antifas> most/all
16:50 < sylph_mako> If AIs have higher earning power than us, and they will, to consider them as anything more than a slave is to immediately damn humanity to obscurity.
16:50 < antifas> and animals should have the same rights as any other natural resource like a rock
16:50 < nano1> Besides, the AI "slaves" may one day usurp the role of the least intelligent humans in a conflict resembling the african-american/irish conflict over menial work in New York after the Civil War
16:51 < nano1> we can start talking about animal rights when we start talking about animal responsibilities
16:51 < Lucas_> rocks don't have the capacity to suffer -___-
16:51 < Lucas_> and there are humans incapable of contributing to society - do they not have rights?
16:51 < sylph_mako> More key; rocks don't have the capacity to wield a gun.
16:52 < nano1> hehe
16:52 < Lucas_> When an AI says "no", or starts doing things we didn't program it to do, I think that is a sign we should let go
16:52 < Lucas_> anything else is subjugation
16:53 < nano1> uh, what about the three laws of robotics??
16:54 < Lucas_> they are not gospel
16:54 < nano1> they seem like *pretty good* ideas to me
16:54 < antifas> if its the natural advancement of humanity, isnt it to their benifite to be mainteined by their ai
16:55 < Lucas_> The ideas are pretty good until the robots decide they want to do something else.  At that point we have to let go
16:56 < d3nd3> if it has a system similar to emotions , then we must respect it .. else it matters not since there are no consequences for our actions on it
16:57 < Lucas_> If it has desire then we'd have to assume that there is some mechanism behind that.
16:57 < Lucas_> (emotion)
16:57 < Lucas_> or something similar
16:58 < d3nd3> yes and does anyone know how to create , emulate such a system yet ?
16:58 < d3nd3> until they do, we have nothing to worry
16:58 < Lucas_> true
16:58 < d3nd3> if i knew how, i would had already done it ^^
16:59 < Lucas_> still, I find it a bit worrying that some people are ok with ignoring the will to choose of another life - transhumanists, no less
16:59 < AdrianG> it was more if all-powerful AI would respect us
17:00 < d3nd3> if the entity is complex, has capabilities to feel other pains, reflect and disassociate from its self etc ... i would care for it, befriend it even and look after it
17:01 < AdrianG> what if it wanted to kill you
17:02 < d3nd3> if its unpredictable, and its system is nothing like that of a human's .. then it is indeed a threat to me .. i don't feel safe around anything which is intelligent and unpredictable
17:02 < d3nd3> i reckon these things would be very dangerous if not understood in and out
17:02 < d3nd3> i dont even know if it can be trusted.. the creator must be very high quality and knew what he was doing
17:03 < d3nd3> for me to trust what it says and behaves etc..
17:03 < d3nd3> also i would have to spend a long amount of time talking to this creation ... forming a bond
17:03 < d3nd3> hopefully that bond would end all desires to kill me
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17:06 < d3nd3> this is a very human .. naive ... approach on the imagined situation .. and the closer this A.I gets to reality .. i think i might take another perspective
17:06 < d3nd3> one .. less ... caring .... and more worrying .. hmm its hard to talk about until its here
17:06 < AdrianG> unpredictable=smarter than you
17:06 <@kanzure> oh geeze not these two again
17:07 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o yashgaroth] by kanzure
17:07 < d3nd3> lol ...
17:07 < joshcryer> It's easy enough to designate what entities should be protected. Anything with a neural pathway. Yes, it means no more eating cows, but we can wait until we have vat meat and such before deciding to make the designation.
17:07 <@kanzure> Lucas_: why does it matter to you whether or not i feel that you should recognize me as a person? that just sounds absurd
17:08 < d3nd3> its not easy because of good and evil ... intentions ... control ...
17:08 < joshcryer> I thought you were an AI kanzure... :(
17:08 <@kanzure> joshcryer: whether or not i am an ai has zero bearing on how much i care about whether or not you consider me a person or not
17:08 < joshcryer> kanzure, bah, using Kurzweil's definition of human! ;)
17:08 <@kanzure> like personhood is stupid, who the fuck cares
17:09 < joshcryer> Isn't that the whole point of friendly AI?
17:09 <@kanzure> no
17:09 <@kanzure> friendly ai is siai's power grab attempt
17:09 < d3nd3> of course there will be a time when smarter beings want to destroy less smarter beings because they are fed up with their inability to be useful
17:09 <@kanzure> what do you mean "of course"
17:10 < joshcryer> I thought the basic premise was that we wouldn't want AI's that treat us as we treat ... ants. Or termites.
17:10 <@kanzure> joshcryer: so?
17:10 <@kanzure> joshcryer: that's not the premise. the premise is to have a constant amount of ultralording to prevent other ultralords from forming or grabbing sufficient ability.
17:12 < d3nd3> it doesnt matter anymore what an individual wants lol, there going to get smart and not much singularly we can do about it
17:12 < Lucas_> Because we tend to hurt or enslave things we don't consider "persons"
17:12 < Lucas_> Sure, we should fix the fact that we are aggressive and cruel, but that is a start until we can alter the brain
17:13 < joshcryer> kanzure, the speed of light assures that for now. I'm not terribly worried about it. What would bother me is an irrational discarding of lower intelligences when resources are so absurdly abundant and ability is limited by the speed at which information can move.
17:14 < d3nd3> biological intelligince = god, the creator .. electrical synthetic machinery is the creation ... and the creation will be far above the god which created it
17:16 < d3nd3> tbh i don't care about anyone,except those capable to not be asses
17:16 < d3nd3> get me ? :D
17:16 < d3nd3> rofl
17:18 < joshcryer> Why would you prioritize asses? I ignore them.
17:19 < d3nd3> i wont lie of my views
17:19 < d3nd3> i would murder
17:19 < d3nd3> lol
17:19 < joshcryer> I kind of think you're an ass, to be honest. :D
17:19  * joshcryer wanders off
17:20 < d3nd3> given the power .,...
17:20 < d3nd3> i'm sure you would too
17:20 < d3nd3> i'm not an ass i'm one of most intelligent beings..
17:20 < d3nd3> who can understand, respect, feel etc
17:20 < d3nd3> i am no threat to you , if you are not an ass :P
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17:21 < d3nd3> yes i have emotions to tell me that i am ... very smart
17:21 < d3nd3> they keep me strong
17:21 < d3nd3> when i believe in myself so highly
17:21 < d3nd3> i am more successful
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17:22 < d3nd3> but really none of us here have any right to say we are intelligent
17:22 < d3nd3> we are really just a tiny lump .... on a scale of intelligence
17:23 < d3nd3> i'm talk on behalf of the moderators too
17:23 <@kanzure> can you go away now?
17:23 < d3nd3> doesn't make sense sorry
17:25 < d3nd3> i am better to not go away, for all your participants , they are better to read what i might type ..
17:25 < d3nd3> can you not understand that, kazure?
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17:28 <@kanzure> d3nd3: i think you should learn english and stop talking about intelligence
17:28 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+b *!*@*.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] by yashgaroth
17:28 < d3nd3> kanzure: shall i let you control me
17:28 <@yashgaroth> sorry people from croydon!
17:28 < joshcryer> I think d3nd3 should learn what signal to noise is and realize there's way too much noise at the moment.
17:29 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: you forgot the other step
17:29 <@yashgaroth> ehh we'll see what happens
17:29 <@kanzure> okay.
17:30 <@yashgaroth> idiocy cannot stay silent for long, so this shall be the true test
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17:35 <@yashgaroth> see? solved itself
17:36 <@kanzure> it's too bad that transhumanism brings out the crazy-and-useless people
17:36 <@kanzure> i'm happy with the crazy people because they tend to have mad skillz
17:36 <@kanzure> but just crazy.. is not helpful
17:37 < bkero> Haha
17:37 < bkero> kanzure: your fringe science have too much fringe in it?
17:37 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+b *!*@*cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245*] by yashgaroth
17:37 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-b *!*@*.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] by yashgaroth
17:39 <@kanzure> bkero: huh? no i mean all this fringe talk about intelligence and god and things. i just could care less.
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17:39 < bkero> heh
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18:12 < wizrobe> lol
18:16 < ThomasEgi> god? that virtual-bro-concept?.. except that it aint a bro and more like a scary stepmother..
18:16 < ThomasEgi> yeah.. could totaly live with less of that
18:18 <@kanzure> i think my home-grown system might be more thorough http://www.contactually.com/tour
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18:25 < brownies> kanzure: what's your homegrown solution
18:26 <@kanzure> brownies: http://quantifiedself.com/2011/08/bryan-bishop-on-meetlog/
18:28 < brownies> kanzure: no transcript? for shame.
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18:31 <@kanzure> brownies: i can't both give the presentation and type at the same time, I'M SORRY
18:31  * brownies shakes head in disappointment
18:31 <@kanzure> :/
18:31 < curt1s> good evening fellas
18:34 < curt1s> kanzure: i watched one of your talks on youtube with the auto-transcription
18:34 < curt1s> youtube CC feature
18:34 < curt1s> pretty bad actually
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18:36 < curt1s> try speaking more clearly so the bots can understand
18:36 <@kanzure> well most of the time i just type things instead
18:36 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/
18:37 < curt1s> well to be honest it was mostly correct
18:37 < wizrobe> so we should talk a little bit about Jason Silva here
18:38 < curt1s> mainly the more obscure science-related terms were mistaken for more colloquial stuff
18:38 <@kanzure> ""I ended up with 20+ business cards from people who I talked to in between sessions. During the afternoon, I took a photo of each of them with my iPhone, emailed the photo to cards@fullcontact.com, and then tossed the card in the trash."
18:38 <@kanzure> " I now have a photo of my card on my iPhone and due to the magic of the FullContact CardShark API the data was automagically turned into a vCard and a Google contact."
18:38 <@kanzure> "I got emails back with each card, clicked one button on the email, and voila the contact data was in my Gmail Contacts data."
18:38 <@kanzure> i am in support of this black magic technology
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19:21 < AdrianG> so umm
19:21 < AdrianG> how do you make money to afford expensive human upgrades
19:22 < curt1s> simple
19:22 < curt1s> sell upgrades to rich folks
19:22 < curt1s> then do them for yourself at cost
19:25 < curt1s> (charge a lot)
19:26 < AdrianG> are you selling any upgrades yet
19:28 <@yashgaroth> I'm selling cybernetic interfaces for $53k a pop
19:28 <@yashgaroth> it's good they're selling well so I can buy all these new expensive human upgrades on the market today
19:29 < curt1s> a bargain at any price
19:34 <@kanzure> AdrianG: what expensive upgrades are you talking about
19:34 < AdrianG> kanzure, hypothetical
19:34 < AdrianG> hgh is kind of expensive.
19:35 <@kanzure> you can manufacture hgh pretty cheaply on your own
19:35 < AdrianG> pharma grade purity...diy ..?
19:35 < AdrianG> whats cheaply.
19:35 <@yashgaroth> sufficient purity
19:35 <@kanzure> :)
19:36 < AdrianG> how
19:36 < curt1s> i dont want hgh
19:37 < curt1s> i heard sylvester stallone has one of those pumps to artificlaly inflate his erection
19:37 < AdrianG> yes hgh caused it
19:37 < AdrianG> ffs
19:37 < curt1s> thats not exactly what i think of when i think of human enhancement
19:37 < curt1s> to be fair he probably did an incredible amount of steroids as well
19:38 < curt1s> but also hgh
19:38 < AdrianG> right, medications are not human enhancement.
19:40 < curt1s> oh im not saying that at all
19:40 < curt1s> just that the side effects of hgh and anabolic steroids can be too much to bear
19:42 < curt1s> maybe you think impotence is an acceptable trade-off for the alleged benefits of growth hormone and steroids; i find it's a steep price to pay
19:43 < curt1s> (and just one example among many)
19:44 < AdrianG> do you really think hgh/roids cause it lol
19:44 < curt1s> yes i do
19:44 < AdrianG> cause impotence?
19:45 < curt1s> heavy steroid use? sure
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19:45 < AdrianG> pfft.
19:52 < joshcryer> I wonder if FullContact CardShark uses mturk to do its card contact extraction.
19:52 < joshcryer> I know that there are people on mturk who do 'hits' that require you to write in the contact information on a card.
19:52 < curt1s> haha
19:53 < curt1s> its possible but wouldnt that have to be done almost instantly
19:54 < joshcryer> https://www.mturk.com/mturk/preview?groupId=2HGWQIHPCGJ2UXCY1JWXN0JPXYN71Q
19:54 < joshcryer> (example)
19:54 < curt1s> otherwise some decent otr/xslt
19:55 < curt1s> $0.02?
19:56 < joshcryer> Yep. Far below wage slavery.
19:56 < curt1s> yeah too bad the rates are so bad
19:57 < curt1s> sorting by reward amount,
19:57 < joshcryer> From what I gather foreigners do a lot of it, but some westerners will use mturk for other stuff. Transcription is a big thing but you'd still make half what you would flipping burgers (even if you were a god-typist like kanzure).
19:57 < curt1s> heh
19:57 < curt1s> well the highest paying one at the moment is some video transcription
19:57 < curt1s> i have done that for actual tv shows
19:58 < curt1s> making $150-200 per 90 mins of footage
19:58 < joshcryer> I did some transcription stuff for fun so I could get my typing ability up, at 100wpm I averaged about $4 an hour. :O
19:58 < curt1s> theyre paying under $50 for 2 hours of audio :(
19:59 < joshcryer> curt1s, those video transcription jobs you're seeing are from a company that is doling out those jobs to individuals and using Amazon's API to give them the job.
19:59 < joshcryer> curt1s, ie, they're employees and not "self-employeed."
20:00 < curt1s> not sure what you mean exactly
20:00 < joshcryer> If you click on the title of the job it'll expand and show that the job is tied to one particular mturk ID.
20:00 < joshcryer> So they're not available for everyone, just one particular person.
20:01 < joshcryer> (or a few people I should say, the ID's do differ but you can see multiple hits going to the same ID)
20:01 < curt1s> ah okay
20:01 <@kanzure> curt1s: impotence is completely irrelevant because of sperm banks and surrogate pregnancies and embryo storage.
20:02 <@kanzure> curt1s: anyone who doesn't stock some sperm in a bank is an idiot
20:02 < joshcryer> Wait, you've sperm banked?
20:02 <@kanzure> wait, do i mean that? hm. yes. yes i do.
20:02 <@kanzure> oops, wait, let me correct myself
20:02 < curt1s> kanzure: maybe impotence is too broad. i meant a broken dick, specifically. i dont care so much about sperm. theres plenty to go around
20:03 <@kanzure> i mean steroid-induced impotence of the sort that you control.
20:03 <@kanzure> erm. directly cause.
20:07 < curt1s> you can freeze sperm but boner problems are trickier
20:07 < curt1s> (or so ive heard)
20:07 <@kanzure> i've got 99 problems but, son, boner problems ain't one
20:07  * kanzure looks for food
20:08 < curt1s> yeah me neither but id like to keep it this way
20:09 < curt1s> not go messing around with hgh and steroids in some vain attempt to preserve youth, while inadvertently destroying my dong
20:09 < curt1s> no thank you AdrianG :)
20:12 < curt1s> er...again i said 'otr' but meant ocr^
20:12 < curt1s> mental problems
20:13 < joshcryer> OCR can't provide context for stuff so I expect that humans are doing it.
20:14 < curt1s> software can identify what's a name/email address/phone number
20:14 < curt1s> it's not that much information to put in context of an address book
20:14 < joshcryer> This is true, but, I mean, I expect whatever automation they have there there's a human confirming each result (and fixing it when it breaks).
20:14 < joshcryer> This is kind of important data.
20:15 < curt1s> yeah
20:16 < curt1s> i havent seen the results so i dont know how good it is
20:16 < curt1s> but if its as accurate as youre suggesting...maybe
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20:19 < joshcryer> Granted most cards have a standard format, but there's always the odd one out. I haven't seen the results either but it was said that it automatically filled in the contacts list, so I imagine it'd have to be pretty accurate.
20:22 < curt1s> well its not so much about the format or layout as the few pieces of data and standard format they come in
20:23 < curt1s> name/email/website/phone # can be arranged in any order but they can all be identified pretty easily
20:24 <@kanzure> nmz787: yo
20:24 < curt1s> to me it seems perfectly feasible using software alone
20:24 < AdrianG> hgh does not enduce impotence
20:24 < AdrianG> neither does TRT
20:24 < joshcryer> curt1s, yeah, you're right, except for the person name / company name there isn't too much room for confusion.
20:25 < AdrianG> testosterone levels and sperm counts have been declining for decades
20:25 < AdrianG> i presume hgh age-related decline isnt uncommon either.
20:26 < curt1s> people put all kinds of weird stuff on their buiness cards these days too
20:27 < curt1s> locations (including fictional places)
20:27 < curt1s> lofty titles
20:27 < AdrianG> one day, your DNA will be on your biz card
20:27 <@kanzure> your dna is already on your business card because of your skin flakes and poor hygiene
20:28  * curt1s smears some DNA on a card; passes it to AdrianG 
20:28 < AdrianG> that method of transmission is suboptimal
20:28 <@kanzure> i still want to get blackhatbio.com
20:28 <@kanzure> not sure what i would do with it
20:28 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: ideas?
20:28 <@kanzure> maybe a bitcoin organ exchange?
20:29 <@yashgaroth> hmm
20:29 < AdrianG> sell anthrax spores
20:29 < curt1s> :|
20:29 < AdrianG> "dont like your boss? we've got a solution!"
20:29 <@yashgaroth> do blackhats normally have websites?
20:29 <@kanzure> indeed!
20:31 < AdrianG> yes, liek phrack
20:32 <@yashgaroth> just put up a "this domain has been seized by the department of homeland security" banner
20:32 < AdrianG> lol
20:33 <@kanzure> i will have to ask the fbi or dhs for one of those
20:33 <@kanzure> i'm afraid i'm fresh out
20:33  * curt1s waiting for this hurricane to show up
20:34 <@yashgaroth> I wonder what they'd do if you set up a storefront...pages of ziplocced white powder with "not anthrax" sharpied onto them
20:35 <@kanzure> and petri dishes
20:35 <@kanzure> yes i like this plan
20:36 <@yashgaroth> "totally not ricin, 5 grams"
20:36 <@kanzure> for $100
20:36 <@kanzure> "please contact us for bulk orders"
20:36 <@yashgaroth> ricin' ain't easy
20:37 < curt1s> you would be fine
20:37 < curt1s> just frame it as some kind of art
20:38 <@yashgaroth> "all orders are shipped within 24 hours from our business location in north korea"
20:38 < curt1s> (the real twist would be that it all turns out to be real)
20:38 <@kanzure> "our highly secure north korea location"
20:38 <@kanzure> YEP i like it
20:40 <@yashgaroth> at the very least your list of FBI contacts will grow
20:41 < nmz787> lol
20:41 <@kanzure> can someone find me the seizure page/image?
20:41 <@kanzure> oh i guess one is still up on megaupload.com
20:42 <@kanzure> now we need to pick out some better charges
20:42 <@kanzure> "Conspiracy to commit copyright infringement" is just not interesting enough
20:42 <@kanzure> wtf is up with the background there?
20:44 <@yashgaroth> very tasteful drop shadow
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23:40 < nmz787> anyone here?
23:47 < brownies> occasionally.
23:48 < nmz787> what is your expertise brownies?
23:48 < brownies> desserts
23:48 < brownies> and math.
23:48 < nmz787> do you know cheesecake well?
23:49 < brownies> we are acquainted.
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--- Log closed Mon Oct 29 00:00:09 2012