--- Log opened Sun Dec 09 00:00:35 2012
--- Day changed Sun Dec 09 2012
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00:31 < yashgaroth> nmz787: anyone doing mAb drug studies will need huge libraries of mutants, albeit mutants of a specific region in the gene
00:34 < yashgaroth> phage display panning would be the keyword(s)
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01:18 < nmz787> cool
01:18 < nmz787> fenn: http://www.rp-photonics.com/chirped_mirrors.html
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06:06 <@kanzure> neat, this http module supports rotating proxies https://github.com/icodeforlove/node-requester
06:24 <@kanzure> diybio/europe crap http://www.diybio.eu/european-meetup-sprouts-4-projects/
07:26 < curt1s> why is it crap
07:26 < curt1s> because they banned u?
07:26 <@kanzure> no
07:26 <@kanzure> it's crap because they don't type transcripts
07:26 <@kanzure> and there's only *one* blog post from 50 people that showed up? fuckers
07:27 < curt1s> haha
07:27 <@kanzure> http://blog.fsck.com/2012/12/building-a-keyboard-part-1.html
07:27 < curt1s> maybe they are doing super secret stuff
07:27 <@kanzure> rails error page repl https://github.com/charliesome/better_errors
07:27 <@kanzure> curt1s: i doubt it.
07:29 < Mariu> tell them to unban you
07:29 <@kanzure> i think it's more apt to say they removed me
07:29 < Mariu> ah
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09:03 <@fenn> key64 looks suspiciously like a flat kinesis
09:04 <@fenn> well anyway, i'm not sure why you linked to that. pretty boring project
09:06 <@fenn> why bother with a 3d printed case if it's flat?
09:10 <@fenn> http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/drug-dispensing-model-m-keyboard-t4569.html
09:11 <@fenn> "I can see how the save and emergency save buttons can come in handy in a medical environment."
09:13 <@fenn> i was thinking of making/selling stuff like this http://deskthority.net/mice-other-input-devices-f3/russian-wood-mouse-t4532.html
09:15 <@kanzure> novelty keyboards? meh
09:18 <@fenn> the wooden mouse has an LCD screen?
09:18 <@fenn> showing total distance and distance per this session
09:19 <@kanzure> ah i only glanced at the keyboard
09:20 <@fenn> it's not a novelty keyboard
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09:33 < Urchin[Emacs]> there was a cellphone that ran on punchcards
09:40 < curt1s> http://www.openculture.com/2009/12/sapolsky_breaks_down_depression.html
09:40 < curt1s> interesting 1
09:41 < Mariu> nice
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09:49 < archels> "our biochemistry levels change"
09:50 <@kanzure> sigh
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09:58 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+b audy!*@*] by kanzure
10:02 <@kanzure> is dtrace any good? https://github.com/dtrace4linux/linux
10:04 < chris_99> is it similar to ptrace?
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10:45 < Urchin[Emacs]> kanzure: it's supposed to be excellent
10:46 < Urchin[Emacs]> haven't used it though
11:00 < archels> "Subsequent studies from our
11:00 < archels> laboratory showed that subtotal decortication (involving the
11:00 < archels> prefrontal area) resulted in a significant delay in the onset of"
11:01 < archels> nice experiment that must have been...
11:03 < archels> "chemical ablation of dopaminergic terminals in the striatum"
11:04 < archels> haha the first author is called Saadé
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11:38 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-b audy!*@*] by kanzure
12:56 < jrayhawk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58OabCRCx_Q saade is a human dynamo
12:57 < jrayhawk> http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/2012/03/depression-genetic-faustian-bargain.html http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/2012/11/inflammation-and-depression-cause-or.html are also interesting
13:19 < archels> http://edgarmatias.com/papers/chi96/
13:19 <@kanzure> archels: what is it?
13:21 < archels> some interface design from 1996
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13:54 < AdrianG> jrayhawk, http://www.openculture.com/2009/12/sapolsky_breaks_down_depression.html
13:54 < jrayhawk> Yes, that's what I was responding to.
13:54 < AdrianG> oic
13:54 < jrayhawk> the sapolsky thing is rather old; we have better genetic research and can tie things into inflammation a lot more obviously, now.
13:58 < AdrianG> what is the salopolsky thing
14:04 < AdrianG> cortisol?
14:20 <@fenn> jrayhawk: thanks for the articles.. she mentions difficulty assimilating folate but also inflammation caused by grains. but the major source of folate is grains, (well, beans) so it's a complicated message
14:24 < jrayhawk> She's referring to folic acid being basically unmetabolizable by humans.
14:25 <@fenn> oh that's what she meant by "folks with methylation issues"
14:25 < jrayhawk> (nutritionists fucked up 'folate' and 'folic acid' and they mean the opposite of what's implied by naming convention)
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14:26 <@fenn> i didnt know that. does it matter?
14:27 < jrayhawk> in the sense that the 'folic acid' reinforcement we've been sold on as 'folate' is actually a free radical with no useful pathway
14:28 < jrayhawk> Now we have to actually say 'tetrahydrofolate' in order to mean anything specific or useful. It is a bit of a mouthfull.
14:28 <@fenn> sorry, what? it's a free radical? i don't believe that
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14:29 <@fenn> are you saying that since it's not fully methylated it does more harm than good?
14:31 < jrayhawk> Yes? http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/1/189.short http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15824266 http://www.ajcn.org/content/85/1/193.abstract http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35874922/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/t/your-breakfast-giving-you-cancer/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19190501 http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/16/7/1325.abstract http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/101/6/432.full
14:34 < jrayhawk> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17697404 'golly this genetically novel chemical sure sticks around for a while'
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14:48 <@fenn> that's a lot to read through, and i'm fighting with web browser issues at the moment
14:48 <@fenn> "whereas folate deficiency in normal tissues increases the rate of neoplastic transformation, high doses of folic acid may accelerate the progression of existing neoplastic lesions to cancer" doesn't sound so bad really. reminds me of the china study boondoggle
14:49 <@fenn> (from that last link)
14:50 <@fenn> i wish scientific journals displayed responses inline, the way blog comments work
14:50 < jrayhawk> Yeah, an uncomfortable number of those are epidemiological.
14:51 <@fenn> why don't they just supplement with the fully methylated form in the first place?
14:52 < jrayhawk> I don't think the USDA/FDA has ever been particularly concerned with empirical evidence
15:00 <@fenn> if you didnt catch my meaning, in the campbell study used to justify the china study, the rats fed protein had more tumors because they were still alive
15:01 < jrayhawk> Yeah, that was pretty hilarious.
15:01 <@fenn> i wonder how much harder it is to do all-cause mortality epidemiology than from a single disease
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15:04 <@fenn> it looks like they're tracking individuals in this prostate cancer study at least
15:04 < jrayhawk> His seven countries study was also based on a positive correlation between 'animal protein' and 'total cholesterol' coupled with a positive correlation between 'total cholesterol' and 'colorectal cancer' rather than just directly using the (inconveniently) negative 'animal protein' and 'colorectal cancer' correlation
15:04 < jrayhawk> cambell is such an amazing scumbag
15:05 <@fenn> ah but it's what people want to believe
15:06 <@fenn> i wonder how long it will take for mainstream nutrition research to get straightened out
15:07 <@fenn> doctors are still repeating ancel keyes' mediterranean diet as truth
15:07 < jrayhawk> to be fair, the mediterranean diet is a hell of a lot better than what people eat now
15:08 < jrayhawk> the mediterranean diet involves *whole seafood*
15:08 < jrayhawk> CRAZINESS
15:08 <@fenn> heh
15:08 <@fenn> no, it's definitely the radon in the air
15:09 <@fenn> :P
15:09 <@fenn> http://www.island-ikaria.com/nature/springs.asp
15:09 <@fenn> of recent wired-magazine fame
15:10 <@fenn> oh, nytimes, same thing
15:11 <@fenn> another case of telling people what they want to hear, "social connectedness cures cancer!"
15:11 <@fenn> or was it napping
15:11 < jrayhawk> well, either decreases cortisol, so sounds good to me
15:11 <@fenn> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/magazine/the-island-where-people-forget-to-die.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
15:12 <@fenn> yeah but they explicitly mention the neighboring island where people also nap and drink wine etc has much lower life expectancy
15:13 <@fenn> odd that the authors completely ignore the hot springs in favor of wine and napping
15:18 <@fenn> does anyone else use light text on dark backgrounds in web browsers? if so, how did you go about doing it?
15:18 <@fenn> i'm futzing with bookmarklets and css and realizing there's a lot more to it
15:20 < archels> try the Opera browser
15:22 < jrayhawk> I think most browsers have a CSS override option.
15:24 <@fenn> i'd like to maintain the ability to switch back and forth on a per-tab basis
15:25  * superkuh seconds Opera.
15:27 < jrayhawk> dur, i didn't mean seven countries study, I meant Diet, Life-style and Mortality in China
15:27 < jrayhawk> i'm confusing my hack epidemiologists
15:27 <@fenn> heh
15:27 <@fenn> a redundant phrase
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16:52 <@fenn> "Most computer manufacturers right now (1990) are introducing products which are no different essentially than what was introduced by Xerox and Apple in 1982."
16:53 <@fenn> but now we have the iPad!
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17:39 < AdrianG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=U9eAiy0IGBI
17:57 < jrayhawk> I am, admittedly, fitted with a telephone and radio.
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18:21 <@kanzure> gee thanks python http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7583867/monkey-patching-datetime-produces-strange-results
18:21 <@kanzure> why isn't wheezy on 2.7 at least?
18:21 <@kanzure> oh wait maybe i'm using squeeze.
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18:43 < brownies> i can never keep track of the debian version names
18:44 < brownies> there's no fucking rhyme or reason, and all the names are terrible to boot
18:48 < jrayhawk> http://www.debian.org/releases/ congrats, you can now keep track of debian version names
18:56 <@kanzure> brownies: something about toy story
19:07 < juri_> sid. its the only release.
19:07 < jrayhawk> this is the correct answer.
19:08 < juri_> if it doesn't work in sid, bloody well get on fixing it.
19:15 < brownies> jrayhawk: hot damn. thanks.
19:16 < brownies> we're either on lenny or squeeze.
19:16 < brownies> i am mildly annoyed that they couldn't just use alphabetical order. -_-
19:17 < jrayhawk> I think they've run out of speaking characters to name releases after, so you have a chance to lobby for a new system.
19:18 < jrayhawk> i think the toy story thing was just a perensism anyway
19:30 < brownies> a what-ism?
19:35 < juri_> something specific to bruce perens.
19:52 < brownies> oh i see. it's so specific it doesn't exist on google =P
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20:25 < bkero> Someone is implementing transhumanism as a religion. http://www.neopax.com/praxis/index.html
20:26  * fenn cringes
20:26 <@fenn> this is just more zero state bs
20:26 <@kanzure> how do we kill this
20:28 <@kanzure> but really.
20:28 <@fenn> mostly by not repeatedly linking to it
20:28 <@kanzure> at this point the shitty parts of transhumanism are self-sustaining
20:29 < strangewarp> I think I've found a way to undermine the Turing Church's philosophy, at least, but it would be done through a superior philosophy that swaps out Omega Point (which is mostly dumb) for Big Univese (which is arguably compelling) ..
20:29 <@kanzure> i don't know how, it's not like they make any money
20:29 <@kanzure> i suppose singularityu makes money
20:29 <@kanzure> but it's not supporting all the other awful parts of transhumanism
20:29 <@kanzure> wta was supposed to be supported by membership fees, except they have like 40 members only
20:29 <@kanzure> paying $5/year.. so there's no way membership fees are feeding these terrible beasts.
20:30 <@fenn> it doesn't cost anything to host a book on a website
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20:30 <@kanzure> but there's people who are actively doing "only" shitty "transhumanism"-things.
20:31 < strangewarp> Oh, this Praxis thing looks pretty sloppy
20:32  * strangewarp skim skim skim...
20:32 <@fenn> what i don't understand is why they're actively trying to draw parallels between transhuman ideas and vague religious christian themes
20:32 <@kanzure> i blame giulio prisco and the mormon transhumanist group for that
20:32 <@fenn> it's just gross
20:33 <@kanzure> how are their christian themes going to help me make better death lasers?
20:33 <@fenn> and on top of that, selling it for $3, why? just fucking publish it already
20:33 <@kanzure> erm i mean wellness lasers
20:34 <@fenn> and i liked the word "praxis", now it's been ruined
20:34 <@fenn> bastard
20:34 < strangewarp> Okay, he seems to be gathering the accoutrements of a religion, because he considers that to be important, but ergh
20:35 <@kanzure> "Bryan, if your point was that technical skill(s) are required to be active in philosophy aiming at positive change through technology, I agree."
20:35 <@kanzure> man i must not be clearly communicating my points
20:35 < strangewarp> Like, why not just modernize cosmism with Big Universe, instead of going through the song-and-dance of sloppy gnostic techno-pantheism like this fellow seems to be doing
20:36 <@kanzure> that was one of the guys replying to my "rant" against zero state..
20:36 <@fenn> "By dismissing out of hand spirituality (no matter how vaguely defined) it alienates a large percentage of the population. I hope this work goes some way towards rectifying that situation, and also some way towards blunting its naive materialist message" he lost me with the very last bit
20:36 <@kanzure> why does alienation matter
20:36 <@kanzure> and where is it written that transhumanism dismisses spirituality?
20:36 <@fenn> well, it does matter, but you can't fix it by "blunting the message"
20:37 <@kanzure> kurzweil's whole awful book was about spirituality and i hated it
20:37 <@kanzure> (because of how careless ray was, not because spirituality)
20:38 <@fenn> strangewarp: agreed, we need a new carl sagan, not another mckenna
20:38 <@kanzure> carl sagan was terrible
20:38 <@fenn> carl sagan was at least based in reality
20:38 <@kanzure> while he was busy masturbating about the beauty of a flower, actual scientists were studying chromophores
20:38 < strangewarp> fenn: Carl Sagan was not a cosmist
20:38 <@kanzure> erm, sorry, chlorophyll
20:38 <@fenn> he was a ... cosmologist
20:39 <@fenn> am i missing something here?
20:39 <@fenn> what you mean by "big universe"?
20:39 < strangewarp> I dislike conventional cosmists and I think their entire philosophical system needs an overhaul actually
20:39 < strangewarp> cosmist =/= cosmologist
20:39 <@fenn> oh i never read anything by hugo de garis
20:39 <@kanzure> don't bother
20:40 <@fenn> artilect war blah
20:40 <@kanzure> hugo is up there with all the other humanityplus crapheads
20:40 <@fenn> i like the idea of evolving three dimensional fpga's
20:41 <@fenn> but i doubt that has anything to do with "cosmism"
20:41 <@kanzure> have you ready any of his hplusmagazine posts? i want my money back.
20:41 <@fenn> no, should i?
20:41 <@kanzure> no of course not
20:42 <@fenn> what's up with xiamen university
20:42 <@kanzure> isn't that where hugo and goertzel went to get professorships
20:42 < strangewarp> fenn: Big Universe is effectively modal realism for every rational causal topology, provided that one of three things is true: 1) Modal realist literalism; 2) Many-Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics; 3) multiple Big Bangs occurring over massive distances.
20:43 <@kanzure> ....
20:43 < strangewarp> Of course it's unprovable conjecture so I only consider it a mental plaything currently.
20:43 <@fenn> modal realism?
20:43 <@fenn> you can't define something i dont know by using other phrases i don't know
20:44 < strangewarp> one second.
20:44 <@fenn> "all possible worlds are as real as the actual world"?
20:44 <@fenn> whatever that means
20:44 < strangewarp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_realism - So far as this being literally true, I think that's the most unlikely of the three.
20:44 <@kanzure> any philosophy that relies on mwi being true or false isn't exactly a strong candidate to rely on
20:45 <@fenn> if something is "real" but has no possible bearing on any outcome of any experiment, who cares
20:46 <@fenn> people need to fix their stupid semantics
20:46 < strangewarp> fenn: acausal trade; resimulation if cognitive materialism is true; etc
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20:47 < strangewarp> still, I think the difference between my approach, and these Praxis / Turing Church people is, I fully recognize and admit that mine is a mental plathing that relies on like six different what-ifs
20:47 < strangewarp> plaything*
20:48 < strangewarp> anyway brb
20:48 <@fenn> somehow we got derailed from bashing zero state, but i'm not convinced this was a bad outcome
20:48 <@kanzure> i'm not convinced that "more philosophy" (even if it's better or more careful philosophy) is the right medicine against all of the terrible transhumanism philosophy that people get absorbed into
20:50 <@fenn> at the very least, if you want to alienate people, start using specialist jargon
20:50 <@kanzure> i really liked http://www.maxmore.com/extprn3.htm but apparently most of the people who read it didn't go on to actually improve their technology
20:52 <@kanzure> one half of its readership consisted of giulio prisco who went off to try that "order of cosmoneers".. which was a wiki and second life thing. :(
20:53 <@fenn> "Extropians strive to maintain the pace of progress by encouraging support for crucial research, and pioneering the implementation of its results."
20:53 <@kanzure> "encouraging support"
20:53 <@kanzure> bleh
20:53 <@fenn> that's kind of wimpy isn't it
20:53 <@kanzure> yes
20:54 <@fenn> i was going to say "it doesn't actually say to improve technology" but i found that quote
20:54 <@fenn> sorry to burst your bubble
20:54 <@kanzure> well, it seems you and i live in a bubble where we both feel that this document is 1000x too weak
20:55 <@fenn> maybe the earlier versions were better
20:55 <@kanzure> the books listed under "READING" aren't going to get you anywhere.. where the hell is "Molecular Biology of the Cell" ?
20:55 <@kanzure> or horowitz's thing?
20:56 <@fenn> i've been comparing the new THX-1138 to the old THX-1138 and wondering what happened. it's almost as bad as the new star wars
20:56 <@kanzure> shit, "the selfish gene" is on the reading list. that's a terrible suggestion.
20:56 <@fenn> not if your business is spreading philosophy
20:57 <@kanzure> and "Ayn Rand: Atlas Shrugged"... hah.
20:57 <@fenn> meh
20:57 <@kanzure> you asked about earlier versions.. here's v2.5: http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Cultural/Philosophy/princip.html
20:58 < strangewarp> [21:48] <@kanzure> i'm not convinced that "more philosophy" (even if it's better or more careful philosophy) is the right medicine against all of the terrible transhumanism philosophy that people get absorbed into
20:58 <@fenn> i would hope that for the majority of people who find this document interesting, the principles are self-evident and need no elaboration
20:58 < strangewarp> Alas, I've got to provisionally agree with that :/
20:58 <@kanzure> fenn: well, maybe they do need elaboration.
20:58 <@fenn> it's the people who don't find them self-evident that we need better persuasive arguments
20:58 <@kanzure> no not even persuasion.. it just needs to be explicitly written down in the first place
20:59 <@kanzure> "yo dawgs, go sign up for a community college class on something you don't know but need to know to do these things"
20:59 <@fenn> or slip it in as subliminal suggestion somehow
20:59 <@fenn> i don't even know
20:59 <@kanzure> the "what next?" shouldn't be "here's some fucking awful philosophy books"
21:00 <@fenn> i haven't read about 80% of those books
21:00 <@kanzure> why didn't davidad end up gushing philosophical rhetoric anyway?
21:01 <@kanzure> did mit beat some sense into him? i mean he was surrounded by kurzweil and others for years.
21:01 <@fenn> he was never into philosophy as far as i can tell
21:02 <@fenn> i did read "prometheus rising" and was quite underwhelmed
21:03 <@fenn> it's sort of like reading "hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy" and expecting to get an actual map of the galaxy
21:03 <@kanzure> here's v2.01 from 1992-08-07 http://artofhacking.com/IET/OCCULT/live/aoh_extropia.htm
21:05 <@fenn> heh /IET/OCCULT/
21:06 < juri_> wow. that's a lot of crazy. for referene, i'm both a taoist and a singularist. i have the 'simplicity' edict all fouled up.
21:06 <@kanzure> so i see 10 paragraphs on self-determinism and other obvious philosophy things and nothing like "yo dudes, go learn how to weld"
21:06 < juri_> learning to contribute constructively to the commons is not something that's taught.
21:06 <@fenn> extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu hehe
21:06 <@kanzure> (while you might not ever weld again, knowing about possible welds and why that wont work is fairly important)
21:06 <@kanzure> fenn: yeah, it was hosted on the same server
21:10 <@kanzure> it's a shame that the GNU philosophy didn't leak over much.
21:11 <@kanzure> or any comprehension of the free software movement
21:11 <@fenn> well at least these are actionable: " We practice and plan for biological and neurological
21:11 <@fenn> augmentation through means such as effective cognitive enhancers or
21:11 <@fenn> psychology"
21:12 <@fenn> "smart drugs", computers and electronic networks, General Semantics
21:12 <@fenn> and other guides to effective thinking, meditation and visualization
21:12 <@fenn> techniques, accelerated learning strategies, and applied cognitive
21:12 <@kanzure> oh how convenient.. things that don't require doing anything.
21:12 <@kanzure> except buying drugs
21:13 <@fenn> using computers and electronic networks was a big deal in 1992
21:13 < juri_> as an old BBS sysop, i'm here to tell you it wasn't.
21:13 <@fenn> :(
21:14 <@fenn> come on, drugs + internetz + meditation + philosophy = teh infinite super powerz
21:15 <@kanzure> what bothers me is that nobody questioned that equation
21:15 <@kanzure> the only people who questioned it were people who were wanting to inject their own religion/anti-religion crusades..
21:16 <@kanzure> and somehow zero state sees humanityplus as *too* extreme on the technology side. there isn't even a tech side in the first place!
21:17 <@fenn> anything at all seems extreme when the goal is zero :(
21:18 <@kanzure> what was that private transhumanist web group that claimed to be working on satellite software?
21:19 <@fenn> ICEGODS?
21:20 <@fenn> http://www.icegods.com/
21:21 <@fenn> i love that site for its extreme impedance mismatch with the rest of the world
21:21 <@fenn> "Do not contact us, except as specified below. We do not reply otherwise. no part of this website may be copied for any purpose whatsoever"
21:22 <@fenn> okay, that seems somewhat normal in the butt-headed business world
21:24 <@fenn> it's just so optimistic, and so short on detail.. i wish there were more substance
21:25 <@fenn> oh well
21:26 <@fenn> so i've been thinking about head up displays and worrying about how to outfit an army of borgs with pico projector VRD's when they cost $400 each
21:26 <@fenn> i found a thread written by some turkish EE professor that shows how to make a raster scanning laser projection TV for $10 in parts
21:27 <@fenn> he's done a red/green version http://youtube.com/watch?v=NTpwygS8baY
21:28 <@fenn> and there's some live video but it's somewhat boring
21:28 <@fenn> well anyway it looks reasonably miniaturizable without requiring any access to lithography equipment
21:29 <@fenn> basically a torsion rod with a mirror made of hard disk platter attached to the end, driven by a coil and ferrite bead
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21:32 < juri_> its amazing the computer technology people are discarding every day, and what it can be repurposed for.
21:33 <@fenn> it's more amazing the worthless ends the amazing technology is put towards
21:33 <@fenn> watching football?
21:34 < strangewarp> fenn: Wow, that is a major source of angst for me actually
21:35 <@fenn> it's easy to forget about when you live in a warehouse/lab in SF
21:35 <@fenn> but not so here in boringland
21:36 <@fenn> juri_: what brings you to this wretched city?
21:36 <@kanzure> really? what about boringland, austin branch? i don't think i've ever spoken the words foot or ball to you.
21:36 < strangewarp> I have a vague affection for the Broncos, solely because I have good childhood memories of that time they won the superbowl with John Elway...
21:37 < strangewarp> but I always opt out of watching sports, because bleh
21:37 <@kanzure> probably because you were fed lots of food and your people peopled you
21:37 < strangewarp> yes exactly :p
21:38  * fenn mumbles something about finland
21:38 < strangewarp> Finland has the most metal bands per capita out of any country
21:38 < strangewarp> trivia, but amusing
21:39 <@kanzure> that's because snow turns your heart metal
21:40 < strangewarp> also, because a strong welfare state encourages grassroots arts projects
21:40 < juri_> fenn: i'm on the other coast. ;)
21:40 <@fenn> juri_: i'm in DC now, just too lame to make it over to the hackerspace
21:40 < juri_> oh!
21:41 < juri_> I actually came to DC to create a freegeek.
21:41 <@kanzure> jigsaw?
21:41 < juri_> the one i was running was getting 'too successful'. i was tired of the big-fish-small-town problem.
21:41 <@fenn> "too successful" how?
21:42 < juri_> until i stepped out, I was teaching classes that were packed 35 hours a week, was opening a branch office..
21:43 < juri_> the place was run more like a freegeek + hackerspace.
21:43 <@fenn> and this is a bad thing?
21:43 < juri_> it was a great thing. i decided to pack up ad move to DC, and start one here.
21:44 < juri_> at the point mayoral cantidates are trying to curry favor, its time to move.
21:46 < juri_> I thought it would be ironic to take an idea from portland, optimize it in arkansas, the go to DC to show the east coast how it's done. ;)
21:46 <@fenn> well, good luck
21:47 < juri_> I'll need it.
21:48 < juri_> going from serving a population of ~100K to DC is a major scale change.
21:49 <@fenn> you have to remember DC's more like a third world country, lots of petty corruption, massive wealth stratification and segregation
21:49 < juri_> um. you do know what arkansas is like, right? ;)
21:50 <@fenn> everyone in arkansas is poor
21:50 < juri_> not everyone. there's the tysons, the waltons...
21:50 <@fenn> do they actually live there?
21:50 < juri_> yes.
21:51 < juri_> I still have equipment with 'walton college of business' stamped on it.
21:51 <@fenn> (lived, past tense) http://voices.yahoo.com/walton-hunt-tyson-gone-corporate-titans-7591806.html
21:51 < juri_> at university auction, i used to check for that 'quality sticker'. as it meant the gear was tossed away long before being useless.
21:52 < juri_> oh, yes, not the origionals, but their descendants.
21:52 < juri_> AKA, the brats who get to blow the money.
21:53 <@fenn> i find it interesting that walton-backed First Solar has been so successful. they must know something, or else have enough clout to make any business successful
21:53 <@kanzure> "stark industries terminal hijack system" hrm
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21:56 <@fenn> i wonder why nobody has mass produced these vibrating mirror laser televisions yet
21:56 <@fenn> it's such a simple and straightforward idea
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21:57 <@fenn> there were vibrating mirror head up displays in the 80's that used LEDs
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21:57 <@fenn> (before solid state lasers were invented)
21:58 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+b augur!*@*] by kanzure
21:59 <@fenn> kanzure: i hope you're /msg'ing them to explain why the ban
22:00 <@kanzure> nope. but i'm removing the bans whenever.
22:01 <@kanzure> actually augur seems sort of stable for the moment
22:01 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-b augur!*@*] by kanzure
22:01 < augur> yeah my computer wasnt waking from sleep properly
22:01 < augur> sorry about that
22:07 <@fenn> i wish steve mann provided more info on his fiber optic glasses http://wearcam.org/presenceconnect/cement348351356368decon.jpg
22:07 <@kanzure> isn't he a professor and obligatted by law/the gods to publish in obscure journals? maybe it's published.
22:08 <@fenn> it might be in his image processing textbook somewhere, but i doubt it
22:08 <@fenn> i haven't seen any concrete plans of any of his HMD gear anywhere
22:09 <@fenn> i actually got to see one close up at singularity summit; it was just a myvu crystal and beagleboard, exactly what i had come up with independently
22:09 <@kanzure> where did myvu.com go anyway?
22:10 <@fenn> they were sleazeball IP whores from the start
22:10 <@fenn> more importantly, "who has the microoptical technology license now?"
22:12 <@fenn> is it really that hard to make a grid of microscopic OLED
22:12 <@fenn> the rest is just lenses and mirrors
22:13 <@fenn> i've never used a fiber optic light pipe.. i wonder how much "image" you can pack into one
22:13 <@fenn> it would really simplify the whole system
22:14 <@fenn> maybe light pipe is the wrong phrase
22:19 <@fenn> i get the impression they're in the kilopixel range at max
22:20 <@fenn> "the higher resolution bundles feature 20,000 leeched fiber pixels."
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23:02 < abetusk> anyone up?  Anyone feel like letting me brag?
23:02 <@kanzure> no
23:02 < abetusk> always so grumpy
23:05 <@kanzure> liar
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--- Log closed Mon Dec 10 00:00:49 2012