--- Log opened Thu Dec 20 00:00:04 2012
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00:58 < juri_> as far as auto-routing goes, i do study the topic a bit.
00:59 < juri_> is there a specific need for better autorouting here?
01:01 <@kanzure> no not really, autorouting is the least of the problems
01:04 <@fenn> i wouldnt mind learning how to actually use what's in gEDA
01:04 <@fenn> ideally with the kicad schematic editor
01:05 < juri_> there's a recent thread on the geda mailing list about a topological router.
01:07 <@fenn> um, is there an online archive that goes to 2012?
01:09 <@fenn> god what a terrible interface: http://www.delorie.com/archives/browse.cgi?p=geda-user/2012/12
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01:10 <@fenn> really there's no thread view spanning longer than 1 day?
01:10 < juri_> the thread you're looking for is 'Router fun with rubberbands'.
01:11 <@fenn> and i can only search 4 days back?
01:11 <@fenn> jesus christ why does anyone put up with this
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01:15 <@fenn> too bad nobody knows C anymore :\
01:15  * juri_ does. sad, sad world.
01:20 <@fenn> so have you actually used anthony's router?
01:21 < juri_> Nope. i'm the one who commented about mucs pcb, which i have used, abused, and even played with the source to. i'm a dinosaur. ;)
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01:27 <@fenn> i remember looking at mucs and deciding it was more work than i felt like doing
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01:29 <@fenn> also it's sort of a pain for DIY boards because it relies so heavily on vias
01:32 <@fenn> hrm. google brought back the cache
01:42 < archels> fenn: That's not really an excuse any more these days, when places like seeedstudio allow you to order multilayer PCBs for only a few dozen bucks.
01:42 < archels> I've etched quite a bunch in the past, but can't really be arsed any longer with these kinds of prices.
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01:47 <@fenn> yeah but how long does it take to get your board?
01:47 <@fenn> also "a few dozen bucks" doesn't sound that cheap to me
01:47 <@fenn> ($36)
01:48 <@fenn> also also, what about flex circuits and other situations where vias are impractical
01:50 <@fenn> "zonulin" what kind of name is that
01:51 < archels> afaik flex PCBs can handle vias perfectly well
01:52 <@fenn> only the non flexing portions
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02:34 <@fenn> seems like zonulin is a prime target for desperate celiac/gluten-sensitive diy biologists to synthesize. an 8-mer oral peptide with no possibility for side effects, hard to beat that
02:34 <@fenn> er, larazotide, not zonulin
02:35 <@kanzure> heh i thought that sounded familiar
02:36 <@kanzure> hooray for email archives
02:36 <@kanzure> in 2008 i was helping some girl i liked to synthesize zonulin because fuck celiac
02:36 <@kanzure> at the time it was in phase 3 clinical trials.. what's the current status?
02:38 <@kanzure> sorry i mean 'zonulin receptor antagonist'
02:39 <@fenn> i'm not sure how to find this information
02:39 <@fenn> does this mean it's in phase 2? http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01396213?term=larazotide&rank=1
02:39 <@kanzure> google is really bad at blasting "Xaa Xaa AUA GGC CGA UUG"
02:40 <@kanzure> weird, a larazotide patent was filed in 2011
02:41 <@kanzure> i recall getting the sequence out of a patent
02:41 <@fenn> yeah it's been aroung much longer than 2011
02:42  * kanzure pats himself on the back
02:43 <@fenn> hell you could even make/find a bug that expresses zonulin receptor antagonists on its surface
02:43 <@fenn> then you never have to take a drug again
02:43 <@fenn> well, for celiac at least
02:43 <@kanzure> my attempt involved yeast/yogurt
02:44 <@fenn> you were transforming cells in 2008?
02:45 <@kanzure> i was doing many things in 2008, you have to realize that my competence generally points backwards in time
02:46 <@fenn> oh you're benjamin button
02:46 <@fenn> or was it merlin
02:46 <@fenn> "Characters with Merlin Sickness live or age backwards in time"
02:47 <@fenn> gosh it is indeed a trope http://io9.com/5117495/living-in-rewind-doesnt-erase-these-characters-problems
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02:59 <@kanzure> let me know if you can't find sequences, i seem to have some emails with notes
02:59  * kanzure sleeps
02:59 < juri_> rest well.
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07:50 < jrayhawk> Zonulin appears to be a well-adapted response; it's probably modulating feedback between the gut flora and the immune system. It seems like a CXCR3 antagonist would be far more desirable.
07:50 < jrayhawk> the well-adapted response being using the contents of the lymphatic system to flush dangerous contents from the intestine.
07:54 < chris_99> anyone got any ideas for ultra low power solenoid type devices, that are commercially available
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08:11 < ThomasEgi> chris_99, as in electromagnet?
08:11 < chris_99> or any other device that can 'push' something :)
08:11 < ThomasEgi> what do you want to push? and how low power is low power?
08:11 < ThomasEgi> what forces and travel distances do you need?
08:12 < chris_99> skin, it's for an actuator to give a 'sixth' sense type thing
08:12 < chris_99> so low force & travel distance
08:12 < ThomasEgi> and what size do you target?
08:13 < chris_99> can you get ~10mA or less?
08:13 < chris_99> oh very small diameter size, e.g. 1.5mm
08:14 < ThomasEgi> hm. first thing that comes to my mind would be a piezo actor.
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08:14 < ThomasEgi> not a massive crystal. but a small flat surface that can swing. simmilar to those piezo-disk speakers.
08:15 < chris_99> hmm we did think about a piezo transducer, but we weren't sure if that'd give enough 'movement' as it where
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08:16 < ThomasEgi> a bulky cristal will only get you micrometers. but if you use it to bend a flat object you can get enough travel distance.
08:16 < chris_99> hmm interesting
08:17 < ThomasEgi> there's another way to trigger your skin's sensory inputs. i read about it in a rather experimental tectile touchscreen brochure that can simulate texture of objets when touching
08:17 < chris_99> check this http://www.piezo.com/prodbm0nav.html#4layer
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08:17 < chris_99> look good?
08:18 < ThomasEgi> looks pretty good
08:19 < chris_99> we also thought about muscle wire
08:19 < ThomasEgi> forget bout it. too slow. eats too much current
08:19 < ThomasEgi> those piezos look pretty neat.
08:20 < ThomasEgi> .25mm displacement is certainly noticeable on fingertips.
08:20 < chris_99> aha, yeah piezos look cool
08:21 < ThomasEgi> and the force applied looks pretty decent to.
08:21 < ThomasEgi> they are a bit pricy tho
08:22 < chris_99> oh i haven't looked at the price
08:22 < chris_99> eeek
08:22 < chris_99> $200 for one of them
08:23 < ThomasEgi> for single quantity
08:24 < chris_99> yeah
08:24 < chris_99> we only really need one
08:24 < ThomasEgi> some of the smaller stripes go for bout 80
08:24 < chris_99> oh cool
08:24 < chris_99> i might check on alibaba see if they have something similar
08:25 < ThomasEgi> you coud try to rip out a pizo speaker from some toy or smoke-detector
08:25 < ThomasEgi> or anything that makes loud beeping noise
08:25 < ThomasEgi> and carcfully cut that disk in shape
08:27 < ThomasEgi> those piezo beepers sell for pennies.
08:28 < ThomasEgi> piezo buzzer or piezo transducer . that's what they are called
08:29 < ThomasEgi> ...you may even have some in old pc's that annoying beeping sound on startup.
08:31 < chris_99> i think i've got some disc transducers kicking about somewhere
08:32 < ThomasEgi> worth some experimentation befor spending 100bucks
08:35 < chris_99> yup definitely
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10:15 < nmz787> anything better than odesk for getting paid for work online?
10:15 < nmz787> odesk takes 10% plus a withdrawl fee
10:25 < jrayhawk> google wallet, stripe, chargify, recurly, braintree
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11:09 <@kanzure> odesk is for poor people
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12:59 <@kanzure> "Looking over the past few years, the amount of people using GitHub is growing at an incredible rate; there are now 2.8MM GitHub users, which represents 133% growth in 2012 alone."
12:59 <@kanzure> https://github.com/blog/1359-the-octoverse-in-2012
13:01 <@kanzure> emoji seems like a terrible idea what are they thinking
13:07 < eudoxia> i didn't know github had emoticons
13:07 < eudoxia> eughhgh
13:08 <@kanzure> also, why haven't i been using this? https://github.com/jkbr/httpie
13:17 < ThomasEgi> i don't see why using github is so much of a bad idea. i mean. it's still using git. it is not like it'll stop you from doing any work when github should ever fail.
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13:42 < tylergillies> bkero: hello :)
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14:30 < srangewarp> Github is user-friendly, and has a lot of sort-of-searchable code, which is useful for beginner to intermediate coders who are trying to figure out how to do something
14:30 < srangewarp> It's not perfect, of course ... centralized, online services make me antsy
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14:54 < eudoxia> well at least git itself is decentralized
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15:01 <@kanzure> neat, mozilla is building firefox for android-x86 now
15:01 <@kanzure> http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/nightly/2012-12-20-12-15-07-mozilla-central-android-x86/
15:04 < chris_99> intriguing
15:04 < ThomasEgi> hm. x86 android builds have been around for quite long already. not by mozilla tho
15:05 <@kanzure> there have been firefox/android-x86 builds floating around?
15:05 < ThomasEgi> ah wait
15:05 < ThomasEgi> i misread
15:05 < ThomasEgi> i thought it was bout android x86
15:05 < ThomasEgi> not firefox on it
15:05 < ThomasEgi> pretend my text never appeared
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15:14 <@kanzure> someone should make a brlcad/openscad script to convert an mp3 to a 3d image of a vinyl record
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15:19 <@fenn> why would that be any better or worse than processing
15:21 <@fenn> also, who cares? records are for hipsters
15:22 <@kanzure> because people are making these vinyl stl files by hand (apparently?)
15:22 <@fenn> uhm no
15:24 <@fenn> "Once I create a text file, I can import the data into Processing and convert it into an STL.  I would like to streamline my code so that audio files (wav/mp3) can be loaded directly into Processing, but I have not found a solution yet, any suggestions would be appreciated!"
15:26 <@fenn> the text file is created from a wav by a script
15:26 <@kanzure> oh good. yes there's nothing wrong with processing.
15:28 <@fenn> great now all we need to do is run this 3d printed record player in a modelica simulation and pipe the output to /dev/dsp0
15:28 <@fenn> and skip the actual printing part
15:29  * fenn stomps off
15:30 <@kanzure> i was only concerned that people seemed to have not automated the stl file generation, not because records are actually interesting
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16:27 < wrldpc> What's the response to Jason Silva's stuff?
16:28 <@kanzure> boredom?
16:29 < tylergillies> holy crap its officially sunset right now
16:29 < tylergillies> wrong chan
16:32 < AdrianG> too late. we read it.
16:33 < Mariu> lol
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17:02 < bkero> tylergillies: sup
17:02 < tylergillies> wrldpc: im a big jason silva fan
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17:03 < tylergillies> i mean he doesn't really do anything
17:03 < tylergillies> but hes inspiring
17:03 < tylergillies> which is good enough for me
17:03 < tylergillies> my thoughts are the same for aubrey de gray
17:04 < tylergillies> i think sens is kinda weird
17:04 < tylergillies> but hes inspiring
17:04 <@kanzure> what makes it weird
17:04 <@kanzure> or who cares
17:04 < tylergillies> heh
17:04  * tylergillies immediately regrets starting that conversation
17:05 < tylergillies> its my opinion
17:05 < tylergillies> i don't have to rationalize it
17:05 <@kanzure> you're weird.
17:05 < tylergillies> in your opinion ;)
17:09 < ThomasEgi> where's that doomsday everyone was talking bout? i thought i could skip doing the dishes but the world still shows no sign of ending? i'm dissappointed.
17:11 < tylergillies> ThomasEgi: its tomorrow, we still have the rest of today ;)
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17:12 < tylergillies> ThomasEgi: http://www.terriblefate.com/
17:13 < ThomasEgi> that page requires flash plugin just to show a date?
17:13 < ThomasEgi> srsly?
17:13 < ThomasEgi> i mean i could take that as an indication on how close we are to the end but that aint going to clean my dishes at all *sigh*
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17:16 < emancipate> would be funny if 'the end' started after you dry the last dish
17:18 < ThomasEgi> in that case.. i'd find the world's manager and kick him in the nuts. a passionate kick.
17:19 < ThomasEgi> makes me wonder if i might make a good writer for song lyrics.
17:24 <@kanzure> fenn: what's that beagleboard alternative that is the same form factor with better specs?
17:24 <@kanzure> beaglebone? i keep forgetting.
17:24 <@kanzure> pandaboard?
17:24 < ThomasEgi> pandaboard
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17:27 < brownies> why is pandaboard better?
17:28 < ThomasEgi> twice the cpu speed. 4 times as much ram
17:29 < ThomasEgi> the pandaboard is a lot bigger than the beagleboard.
17:29 < ThomasEgi> so.. not 100% sure if that's what he's looking for
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18:09 <@fenn> there are various new android tv sticks such as the mk802+ which also may be of interest
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18:10 <@fenn> $40 and 1GB of ram, opengl ES, HDMI out and USB host, runs android or debian
18:12 < ThomasEgi> hm. any of those with line-in?
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18:16 < superkuh> Is the USB host 1.1 or 2?
18:17 <@fenn> 2
18:17 < superkuh> Sounds like it'd be a good data pump for running the rtlsdr dongles at the end of a long ethernet cord instead of coax.
18:18 <@fenn> fo sho
18:19 <@fenn> been a long day workin in the data mines, had a data flood and our pump broke down
18:22 < AdrianG> hmm
18:23 < AdrianG> superkuh: r u aspergian
18:24 <@fenn> oh it has wifi too, if that matters
18:25 <@kanzure> AdrianG: can't you just leave
18:25 < AdrianG> no :<
18:25 < AdrianG> im addicted to this chat.
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18:25 < AdrianG> why do you hate me.
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20:00 < yashgaroth> hnnnnngh
20:03 <@kanzure> sup
20:03 < yashgaroth> fucking roommate accidentally cancels internet and leaves for ohio 3 days ago
20:07 <@kanzure> 's okay, roadrunner isn't that great anyway.
20:07 <@kanzure> it can hardly be called internet connectivity
20:09 < yashgaroth> quite so
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20:19 <@kanzure> Juul: sup?
20:19 < Juul> kanzure, hey. i'm at the noisebridge 5 minutes of fame
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20:36 < Juul> jake appelbaum is speaking about burhma
20:47 < Juul> kanzure, what's up with you?
20:47 <@kanzure> fighting with android emulators
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20:48 < Juul> do you have a mirror of library genesis?
20:49 <@kanzure> no :( it's my greatest shame.
20:49 <@kanzure> i'd like to though.
20:49 < Juul> :P we're setting one up in oakland
20:49 <@kanzure> oh good. let me know how i can help and get access.
20:49 < Juul> will do
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21:07 < delinquentme> So when doing liquid handling on cells ... pressure is a huge thing
21:08 < delinquentme> what other kinds of issues do you run into when pipetting them around?
21:09 <@kanzure> cells sticking to things
21:09 < yashgaroth> shearing
21:09 <@kanzure> cells not sticking to things
21:10 < yashgaroth> liquid interaction with air, eg bubbles
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21:19 < delinquentme> so in that case you'd need like a really subtle pump to kind of vaccum suck the cell and pull it from its spot?
21:19 < yashgaroth> most sucking is done by vacuum, yes
21:19 < delinquentme> or .... what are really good applications for automation in liquid handling ... for more macro volumes
21:20 < delinquentme> 10 uL or above say
21:20 < yashgaroth> 80% of stuff in biotech
21:27 < delinquentme> yashgaroth, you know this for shuar
21:27 < yashgaroth> I may be off by as much as 10%
21:27 < delinquentme> I was playing around w the idea of using some material as a type of sling in order to get really small volumes
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21:29 < delinquentme> a "cock it" kind of operation ... build up kenetic energy in the clip .. release it and hope to get some consistent  volume spat out
21:30 < yashgaroth> that sounds inherently inconsistent
21:33 < delinquentme> yeah material fatigue would be an issue
21:34 < delinquentme> but I think thats just a specific deformation equation
21:35 < delinquentme> IE keep it within the range before permanent damage
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21:46 < juri_> so... what is everyone doing to progress h+ here? :)
21:56 <@kanzure> ...
21:56 < juri_> btw, thanks kanzure, for the link to that VM image.
21:57 < juri_> it allowed me to effictively rule out android default browser support for the webapp i'm working on.
21:57 <@kanzure> is that question facetious
21:57 < juri_> (OpenEMR)
21:57 < juri_> no, more like 'highly pointed'.
21:57 <@kanzure> what's wrong with the android webkit browser?
21:57 < yashgaroth> bro do you even biohack
21:57 <@kanzure> mabye you just suck at css?
21:57 < juri_> no ability to scroll inside of frames, no passing the graphical part of the acid3 test, eating my gritter windows.
21:57 <@kanzure> stop using frames
21:58 < juri_> agreed. not my call.
21:58 <@kanzure> then stop getting yourself into situations where you can't take responsibility for your work.
21:58 <@kanzure> bleh..
21:58 < juri_> oh, i'm responsible... for removing popups from this code.
21:59 <@kanzure> and you're testing that the removed popups are android compatible?
21:59 < juri_> i was.. and they're working.
21:59 < juri_> gritter doesn't work, but fancybox does.
21:59 <@kanzure> juri_: after spending weeks in here, if it's not obvious what projects are going on, i don't know how to help you understand.
22:00 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: hush
22:00 < yashgaroth> biohack: eat a lot of beets
22:00 < juri_> kanzure: maybe i should have asked adrianG directly. ;)
22:00 <@kanzure> for some reason we're experiencing an influx of redditors/trolls and i'm trying to figure out how to plug the leak
22:01 < juri_> re: really small pumps: I've been thinking of taking the tubing on my 3d printer, and using thermal expansion of a closed tube.
22:01 < yashgaroth> #reddit-nootropics' topic still links here, no?
22:01 <@kanzure> oh really
22:01 <@kanzure> can we, say.. not do that
22:01 < yashgaroth> I assume, anyway
22:01 < juri_> sure. want to tell me why?
22:03 <@kanzure> you want me to explain why i don't want trolls?
22:04 < juri_> no, i want you to explain why doing temperature control in order to expand/contract the liquid in the tubing for my cell printer is a bad idea.
22:04 <@kanzure> didn't we already go over why your cell printer idea was terrible and why you should work on another design
22:04 <@kanzure> or maybe i dreampt this
22:04 < juri_> i think you dreampt it. i've made some progress, refining the ideas.
22:05 <@kanzure> well, last time you were explaining it was still a pick and place thing
22:05 < juri_> using a blu-ray head with its coils hooled up to PWM microcontrol for positioning, an optical microscope series (three of them, different angles) to do 3d vision from below..
22:06 < juri_> (3d gabor filtering)
22:21 <@kanzure> http://evilbrainjono.net/pages/startup-or-pokemon.py
22:21 < juri_> right now my big questions are how to focus the three cameras to the same depth (vary their distance directly?), and how to provide small enough suctions to the glass capilary to avoid damaging cells.
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22:33 < juri_> if it helps, i'm not from redit. just another geek. :)
22:36 <@kanzure> i didn't insinuate you were.
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--- Log closed Fri Dec 21 00:00:05 2012