--- Log opened Sat Dec 22 00:00:07 2012
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00:56 < jrayhawk> 'module to be compiled into the kernel' these things are mutually exclusive
00:58 < jrayhawk> /proc/net/ip_tables_names is the netlink interface
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01:11 <@kanzure> nmz787: check for that
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01:19 <@fenn> "I don't understand why you would want a 100 tabs open at a time. You are like a hoarder cept its tabs instead of random junk."
01:19 <@fenn> WTF I WANNA KILL EVERYONE
01:19 <@fenn> a horrible comment on a nicely written article http://www.nerdblog.com/2010/06/flawed-browser-ui-case-of-too-many-tabs.html
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01:21 <@kanzure> 100 tabs is weak.
01:23 < joshcryer> You never need more than 10.
01:23 <@fenn> and you never need a number bigger than "many"
01:24 <@fenn> i'm sorry but when are developers going to face up to the fact that people open up a lot of tabs
01:24 < joshcryer> I don't even use tabs.
01:25 <@kanzure> tabs, windows, same thing. if you use a browser it's a tab.
01:25 <@fenn> oh, really, do you use lynx? send letters via the postman?
01:26 < joshcryer> A tab is a widnow within a window, and thus hidden from the top level context, imo.
01:26 < joshcryer> You could have a tab previwer though.
01:26 <@kanzure> i hate tab previewers
01:26 < joshcryer> Me too.
01:26 <@kanzure> i also hate alt-tab interfaces that make me look at an entire screen before letting me selecti t
01:26 <@fenn> windows, tabs, whatever
01:26 <@fenn> where's my zooming UI
01:27 < joshcryer> (this is all talking as if you have a taskbar I should say... I don't know how many Linux UIs function)
01:27 <@kanzure> taskbars are just as terrible
01:27 <@fenn> this should have been addressed in 1992 when raskin worked at apple
01:27 < joshcryer> it functions as my top context tab bar basically
01:27 < joshcryer> (though multi function)
01:27 <@kanzure> joshcryer: horizontal bars make no sense
01:28 <@kanzure> http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-05-25_KDEhacks.png
01:28 <@fenn> do you actually use your computer for work?
01:28 <@kanzure> doing that with horizontal bars would be impossible
01:28 <@fenn> how can you compare anything with less than 10 windows open at once
01:28 < joshcryer> kanzure, hmm, you must be speaking to a different level, since they can be vertical. you mean objects that are at a top level- lol, nope, you are literally saying horizontal bars... you can make the taskbar vertical ;P
01:28 <@fenn> much less look at random screenshots people paste in irc
01:29 <@kanzure> vertical tabs aren't much better. you can read them but now you have to scroll.
01:29 < joshcryer> kanzure, for what it's worth I do agree with you, that's how my irc is set up, but I simply refuse to have 20+ windows open
01:29 <@kanzure> why not just type to get to what you want? didn't we have this conversation like 5 minutes ago?
01:29 < joshcryer> I got disconnected :P
01:30 < joshcryer> sorry for druging up a converstion from before though if I did
01:30 <@fenn> i bet you closed the window because you only had space for 5 windows on your taskbar
01:30 <@kanzure> no, i just feel like a broken record player
01:30 < joshcryer> fenn, hehe
01:30 <@fenn> another thing that annoys me is limited scrollback buffers
01:31 < joshcryer> I'm not a cyborg like you guys
01:31 <@fenn> surely a computer can keep more than 100kB of text in memory?
01:31 <@kanzure> or fetch things from even bigger memory? gee i wonder what we would call that.
01:31 < joshcryer> where are your scrollback buffers limited?
01:31 <@kanzure> some sort of storage device
01:31 <@fenn> "virtual memory"
01:32 <@kanzure> joshcryer: everywhere
01:32 <@fenn> it's just like real memory, but it's not real!
01:32 < joshcryer> hmm, I wonder if I could write a plugin for my irc client that discovered when I got disconnected, fetched the logs from the main logging site, diff'd it with the log I have, and append it back to the chat when I rejoined
01:32 <@fenn> yet somehow when i set scrollback to over 9000 everything bogs down disproportionately
01:32 <@kanzure> vim is sometimes smart enough to not load an entire multi-megabyte file all at once. and then it loads it when it needs it.
01:32 < joshcryer> I probably could but I'm not active here and it wouldn't be useful ;P
01:33 <@fenn> skype does something like that
01:33 < joshcryer> which is why being invisible on skype is pointless
01:33 <@fenn> you'd expect it to be a standard feature of irc clients huh
01:33 < joshcryer> you can tell when someone signs in when the little sending icon stops
01:35 < joshcryer> dircproxy and other irc proxy things do that for you
01:35 < joshcryer> I used it for the longest time here
01:36 <@fenn> this is what i want my desktop to look like http://fennetic.net/irc/conformal_mapping.png
01:36 < joshcryer> right click > set background ?
01:36 <@fenn> the more crap i add to the top, the further the other stuff gets pushed down
01:37 < joshcryer> what do the grids indicate?
01:37 <@fenn> until it's a teensy little square that's actually just an icon of the page/document/session/whatever
01:37 < joshcryer> I like that idea
01:37 < joshcryer> I recently stopped behaving poorly and cluttering my desktop with icons
01:37 < JayDugger> What's the source for that image, fenn?
01:37 < joshcryer> now everything goes into a junk folder and it's literally organized before I shut down
01:38 < joshcryer> (all because I recently had to reinstall windows and just felt that going back to the way I was was stupid)
01:38 <@fenn> JayDugger: no idea, i saw some photography technique years ago and tried to find the image again but couldnt and had to settle for that one instead
01:38 <@fenn> JayDugger: google "conformal mapping" for all sorts of hilarity
01:39 < JayDugger> i'll take that dare.
01:39 < joshcryer> fenn, do the top grids have context, like, say one grid is for bio, one grid is for electronics, etc, then as you drop stuff into them they sort of flow downward?
01:39 <@fenn> it's related to hyperbolic geometry
01:39 < JayDugger> Ah...wikipedia, wolfram mathworld, and umn.edu...
01:39 <@fenn> joshcryer: they're just windows, tabs, whatever
01:39 < joshcryer> (obviously hypotehtically speaking)
01:39 < JayDugger> I had expected bizarre porn.
01:40 < joshcryer> fenn, ahh, aaahh, yeah, that's nice.
01:41 <@fenn> JayDugger: i meant the images like this http://spacecollective.org/userdata/bN7OUn0R/1202188718/2236606971_624675da77_o.jpg and http://speckycdn.sdm.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/conformal1.png
01:41 < JayDugger> Ah...
01:41 <@fenn> although you could probably do some bizarre porn with that idea
01:49 < JayDugger> I'll ask then--why not a tiling window manager with a spiral layout? http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Image:SpiralGoldenRatio.jpg
01:50 <@fenn> sure seems inside out though
01:50 < JayDugger> The screen shot doesn't do it justice, but the idea is that windows outside the master pane get a decreasing screen area.
01:50 < joshcryer> you guys must have good memories
01:50 < JayDugger> Huh?
01:51 < joshcryer> as context dwindles I'd forget what the lower level or less significant things are
01:51 < JayDugger> Oh.
01:51 < joshcryer> and then wind up refreshing my memory
01:51 < joshcryer> since they lose data as they shrink or go away
01:51 < JayDugger> You don't need a good memory, really, to use that layout.
01:51 < JayDugger> Just the ability to touch-type.
01:51 <@fenn> yeah you're offloading your memory onto the computer, that's the whole point
01:51 < JayDugger> That window manager let's you cycle windows about the screen with hot-keys.
01:52 < joshcryer> it certainly does take advantage of pattern recognition I admit
01:52 <@fenn> is that opengl texture based? what controls the font size?
01:52 < JayDugger> If you forget what a small window holds, you just cycle it into a position with more screen area.
01:52 < joshcryer> JayDugger, gotcha
01:53 < JayDugger> I've no idea, come to think of it.
01:53 <@fenn> i like the idea but i think it would fail miserably on this tiny netbook
01:53 < JayDugger> I've used xmonad, the WM shown, for some time with Gnome.
01:53 <@fenn> because there just aren't enough pixels for more than one or two windows at once
01:53 < JayDugger> I assume Gnome controls fonts.
01:53 < JayDugger> http://joeyh.name/blog/entry/xmonad_layouts_for_netbooks/
01:53 <@kanzure> behold! my command line webkit debugging tool: https://gist.github.com/4358293
01:54 < lichen> non-euclidean desktop geometries?
01:54 <@fenn> oh, no i mean you cycle the window and it gets smaller, does the window continue to show the same content? or does it refresh/resize to fit the content to the smaller window?
01:54 < JayDugger> Ph.
01:54 < JayDugger> Oh, I get it.
01:54 < JayDugger> Um...let me test it.
01:54 <@fenn> lichen: i hope to have a fully immersive 3d "desktop"
01:54 <@fenn> what's a couple more dimensions
01:54 < lichen> nice, ive been wanting to see a _good_ one of those
01:55 < lichen> i may have spammed my desktop here before, but ive made mine quite pretty
01:55 <@kanzure> 3d sounds like one of those terrible ideas that ted nelson had
01:55 < joshcryer> what say ya'll about leap motion?
01:55 <@kanzure> xanadu 3.0.. or did he already skip that version number.
01:55 <@fenn> after playing around with "curved spaces" (geometrygames.org) i realized you can get the hang of arbitrary manifolds pretty quickly
01:55 < joshcryer> I'm on the fence, I think it could be useful if I had like 10 monitors or something and a large info-space to work in
01:55 < lichen> neat
01:55 < lichen> as long as the actual viewed pane isnt distorted
01:55 < lichen> need to have 1:1 representation on the active pane
01:55 <@kanzure> joshcryer: sorry, the minimum number of monitors for you to be in here is 15.
01:56 < joshcryer> but for a one monitor setup with my face 3 feet from the screen, it's pointles
01:56 < JayDugger> On my machine, xmonad just rescales windows as they change position or size. The window contents react just as if you resized a window in a non-tiling window manager.
01:56 < lichen> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/84828979/Screenshot%20-%2012132012.jpg
01:56 < joshcryer> kanzure, heh
01:56 < JayDugger> E.g., a web browser gives you scroll bars once the window's screen area stops showing the whole page.
01:56 <@kanzure> JayDugger: i've been falling in love with xmonad's label-all-windows-and-just-search-as-you-type
01:57 < joshcryer> 27 inch monitor 3 feet away :) it's sitting on a board, sitting on my desk, held up by a stack of books
01:57 <@kanzure> who needs visualization when you can just remember what you want
01:57 < joshcryer> (the board is hanging off the desk holding it up)
01:57 < lichen> i still need to fix that 30" monitor i found on the sidewalk...
01:58 < lichen> half deconstructed in the corner of my room
01:58 < lichen> dont know enough electronics to find anything wrong with it
01:58 < lichen> fuse tests out, nothing looks fucked
01:58 < joshcryer> this makes my monitor take up a good chunk of my field of view, the ideal setup would be monitors floating all around me with a sophisticated armature system
01:58 < lichen> motorized armatures, oh yes
01:58 < JayDugger> Time for a smoke test on that monitor. Apply power and see what catches fire.
01:59 <@fenn> i tend to agree with you kanzure, repetition and training beats looking for stuff in terms of sheer speed
01:59 < lichen> JayDugger: nothing happens with power
01:59 * joshcryer kind of agrees with JayDugger here
01:59 < JayDugger> Does any part of the monitor get warm with power on?
02:00 < lichen> it just doesnt power on
02:00 < lichen> but ill take a look at it again sometime
02:00 < lichen> would have been easy if the fuse test failed
02:00 < lichen> or if i saw a blown cap
02:00 < JayDugger> Fair enough. I meant, with it plugged in and the switch on.
02:00 < lichen> yeah
02:00 <@fenn> probably a shorted cap in the power supply
02:00 < lichen> i didnt really try probing it much with the power on
02:01 < lichen> not fond of being shocked
02:01 <@fenn> if it makes an awful squealing noise, that's the current limiter
02:01 < lichen> hmm
02:01 < lichen> last i tested it, nothing happened
02:01 < lichen> at all
02:01 < lichen> ill try reassembling it soon i guess and try testing it again
02:02 < lichen> took a bunch of deconstruction photos so i wouldnt forget
02:02 < JayDugger> Good choice with the photos.
02:03 < lichen> doesnt mean ill be able to find all the screws
02:03 < lichen> but i think itll be fine
02:03 < lichen> i could use another monitor
02:03 < JayDugger> Oh, tape them near their socket, put them in a paper cup, or replace them in the socket if you can.
02:03 < lichen> though i did recently pick up a nice 24-inch IPS display
02:04 < lichen> yeah i should have done that
02:04 < lichen> but it was a while back
02:04 < lichen> good advice tho
02:04 <@fenn> lichen: your background reminds me of http://deborahyoon.com/
02:04 < lichen> very pretty, ill have to bookmark it
02:04 < lichen> i dont know where many of my backgrounds are from
02:05 < lichen> mostly harvested from imageboards
02:05 < lichen> but yeah, i got a new 24-inch
02:05 < lichen> with professional quality color calibration
02:05 < lichen> its amazingly pretty
02:06 < JayDugger> kanzure, what will you do with your webkit-inspector-shell?
02:09 <@kanzure> make web development less fucking awful?
02:10 < JayDugger> Fair enough. And how do you do incremental switching by window title in xmonad?
02:10 <@kanzure> i just want to use things like stdin and stdout to get information about the state of a page
02:11 <@kanzure> XMonad.Prompt.Window and XMonad.Actions.TagWindows
02:11 < JayDugger> Thank you.
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02:11 <@kanzure> auto-labeling is a little wrong at the moment i think
02:11 <@kanzure> and i'm not sure if labels are preserved between sessions
02:12 <@kanzure> XMonad.Prompt.Window only searches by exact match to the window title, which is close to useless
02:12 <@kanzure> XMonad.Actions.TagWindows requires you to manually tag windows each time
02:12 <@fenn> what's a session? like when you crash or reboot?
02:12 < joshcryer> If you wanted to make web development less awful you'd invent a new web model. >:P
02:12 <@kanzure> in between xmonad --restart
02:15 <@fenn> man, the "remote debugging port" thing should be standard
02:15 <@kanzure> all of the major browsers use a different standard sadly
02:16 <@kanzure> safari, chrome, phantomjs and the android browser are all based on webkit, so they share that protocol
02:16 < joshcryer> My mind basically cannot grasp how we achieve anything with how convoluted standard implementation is.
02:16 < joshcryer> Nevermind how convoluted standards themselves are (css comes to mind).
02:18 <@kanzure> firefox has its own debugging protocol that doesn't seem to be implemented yet
02:18 <@fenn> sure it does
02:19 <@kanzure> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Remote_Debugging_Protocol
02:19 <@kanzure> https://developers.google.com/chrome-developer-tools/docs/protocol/1.0/
02:19 <@kanzure> http://code.google.com/p/chromedevtools/wiki/WebKitProtocol
02:20 <@fenn> i'm so not clicking on any of those
02:21 <@fenn> "too many tabs" is pretty wonky, but it works, and i can save my sets of tabs as json and shuffle tab sets between browsers at least
02:21 <@fenn> "sets" being very loosely defined as "everything you don't want open right now"
02:22 <@fenn> as there is no way to sort or group anything
02:22 <@kanzure> this is an ok overview http://thecssninja.com/talks/remote_debugging
02:23 <@fenn> i bet i could make a better version of toomanytabs
02:24 <@kanzure> oh god this looks evil http://thecssninja.com/talks/remote_debugging/#aardwolf3-1
02:24 <@kanzure> yeah toomanytabs is pretty easy to implement i think
02:24 <@kanzure> you should call it notenoughtabs
02:25 <@fenn> lol
02:25 <@fenn> why did you link to this awful powerpoint presentation
02:26 <@kanzure> because he had this in a wiki page somewhere and i remembered the wrong link
02:26 <@kanzure> this is the one where the content is inexplicably strangled into 1,000 slides
02:30 < joshcryer> fenn, do it, I might start using tabs man.
02:30 <@kanzure> sets of tabs as json is pretty nice btw
02:33 <@fenn> hrm
02:33 <@kanzure> xulrunner troubles?
02:33 <@fenn> this is what it looks like when pretty-printed http://fennetic.net/irc/2012_12_22.chrome.yaml
02:34 <@kanzure> gee what a wonderful lack of information
02:34 <@kanzure> what about timestamps or keywords
02:34 <@kanzure> and where are all of the stored tabs?
02:34 < JayDugger> Don't you get all of those with bookmarks?
02:34 <@fenn> that's the first list, "suspended"
02:35 <@kanzure> "suspended" doesn't include cached copies?
02:35 <@fenn> yes JayDugger in a sense what i'm after is a better way to bookmark stuff
02:35 < JayDugger> Okay, that makes sense.
02:35 <@fenn> bookmarking is very one-at-a-time. i want to be able to open and close entire windows full of tabs
02:36 <@kanzure> 'bookmark all' is an option in chrome under the context menu
02:36 < JayDugger> What he said.
02:36 <@fenn> also there's some kind of inertia behind the idea that bookmarking is for saving especially interesting things long term
02:36 < JayDugger> Okay, a slightly different affordance.
02:37 <@kanzure> - http://wiki.transhumani.com/index.php?title=Cryonics
02:37 <@kanzure> traitor
02:37 <@fenn> no comment
02:38 <@fenn> chrome was supposed to be mostly empty for testing
02:38 <@fenn> most of my open tabs are in midori or firefox :\
02:39 <@fenn> JayDugger: i tend to use open tabs as a todo list, or at least a "to look at" list
02:39 <@fenn> if i have to save something to a bookmark and then close it before even looking at it.. how does that work exactly?
02:40 < JayDugger> I haven't got a good solution for that. I've date-stamped bookmarks sets from years ago that form that sort of "to look at" list.
02:41 < JayDugger> I've dumped those into Evernote, which tends to let me search, sort, and delete with more ease than a browser's bookmark tools.
02:41 <@kanzure> evernote is the wrong direction.. you'd have to do lots of reverse engineering it to get it back to friendly formats i think
02:42 <@fenn> that's why they call it evernote :)
02:42 <@fenn> information goes in and stays there forever
02:43 < JayDugger> Evernote has got problems. That's the main one. Another data oubliette, but at least I can do full-text search and outsource the back-ups.
02:43 < JayDugger> And yes, pay for the privilege too. :(
02:43 <@kanzure> why weren't bookmarks ever sent over in bulk on usenet?
02:44 <@kanzure> everything else has been.. photos, binaries, movies, but not bookmarks.
02:44 <@fenn> der, what? please elaborate on the utility of that
02:44 <@kanzure> they always had some crappy formatting in a text file
02:44 <@kanzure> the utiltiy is sharing a subset of currated links?
02:44 <@kanzure> you know, before delicious
02:45 <@fenn> was delicious for sharing? i thought it was just to sync bookmarks across computers/browsers
02:45 <@kanzure> your links and tags were public
02:45 <@fenn> so?
02:45 <@kanzure> isn't that sharing?
02:45 <@kanzure> i guess not
02:45 <@fenn> it helped promote delicious as a business at least
02:45 <@fenn> i dont really get why they shut it down
02:46 <@fenn> "look at this awesome thing, let's buy it! ok now what? well, we're incompetent, so let's shut it down" yay!
02:46 <@kanzure> is pinboard.in still around? that was the hipster alternative that everyone was liking.
02:47 <@fenn> pinterest?
02:47 <@kanzure> no definitely no
02:47 < JayDugger> https://pinboard.in/, yes.
02:48 < JayDugger> "One dude in his underpants somewhere who has five windows open to terminal servers."
02:48 <@kanzure> ah so he has upgraded
02:49 <@fenn> is that supposed to be a lot of windows?
02:49 <@fenn> i don't get it
02:50 < JayDugger> Yeah, for the readers of the Economist, that probably counts as a lot.
02:50 <@fenn> are they saying he's succeeded because he managed to close almost all his windows?
02:50 < JayDugger> Heh.
02:50 <@fenn> the champion of "done", reigning in his underpants with victory cheetos
02:52 <@kanzure> it's sort of dumb that we don't have a communal squid proxy thing caching all of the pages we view
02:52 <@kanzure> or bookmarkbot
02:54 <@fenn> i've been meaning to set up squid myself
02:54 <@fenn> instead of fighting with user-css bookmarklets
02:57 * kanzure sleeps
02:57 < juri_> rest well.
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03:28 <@fenn> is there a standard export format for tagged bookmarks?
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04:07 <@fenn> kewl http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/vocabulary/
04:13 <@fenn> i guess i dont get the difference between tags and hard links
04:16 < joshcryer> There's not a difference?
04:18 <@fenn> well a tagged bookmark is like a bookmark in multiple folders at once
04:18 <@fenn> so i'm wondering what the "tagcoll" package does exactly, and why not just represent tagged collections as directories with hard linked files
04:19 < joshcryer> Fair enough.
04:22 < JayDugger> How'd you get from exported bookmarks collections to debtags?
04:24 < JayDugger> Not that debtags isn't interesting from an epistemological perspective, but do most people browse by tag?
04:25 <@fenn> i was searching for tools to handle tagged collections
04:25 <@fenn> oddly enough "tagcoll" showed up
04:25 < JayDugger> Oh. Makes sense.
04:25 <@fenn> i've used debtags before when browsing around with synaptic
04:26 < JayDugger> There's my existence proof.
04:26 < JayDugger> or disproof, rather.
04:26 <@fenn> apparently firefox 3 (and other versions?) natively saves tagged bookmarks as .json
04:29 <@fenn> i dont remember ever tagging anything in firefox though
04:34 < JayDugger> I think the old delicious extension would sync FF bookmarks with delicious bookmarks and make the tags match too. I don't know if that still works.
04:34 < JayDugger> The Chrome version's garbage.
04:35 <@fenn> chrome doesnt have tags
04:35 <@fenn> oh but there's "Google Bookmarks" whatever that is
04:36 <@fenn> how is it that www.google.com/boomarks doesn't talk to chrome
04:36 <@fenn> shameful
04:36 < JayDugger> Internal rivalries?
04:36 <@fenn> but it's the same company!
04:36 < JayDugger> I'll spare you tales of co-workers I'd like to see dead.
04:36 <@fenn> oh. i need to sleep
04:37 <@fenn> i guess it's like chrome OS vs android
04:37 <@fenn> but nobody gives a shit about bookmarks
04:38 <@fenn> the only standard is XBEL
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09:51 < jrayhawk> fenn: you probably want polipo for personal disk caching
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10:53 < yash-phone> so xff is a little bizarre
11:13 <@kanzure> elaborate
11:13 < yash-phone> not sure what I can say in public
11:14 < yash-phone> it's fun though, lukas says hi and will stop by more often
11:14 < yash-phone> unless he's here now, I can't really check
11:16 < yash-phone> grinders are a friendly bunch, can't really speak for any other attendees because fuck 'em
11:17 <@kanzure> oh xff the conference. whatever.
11:19 < yash-phone> oh is it probably also a programming
11:20 < yash-phone> also would not use the term 'conference'
11:20 <@kanzure> how did you pick out lukas?
11:20 < yash-phone> pretty easily
11:20 <@kanzure> hahah no i mean.. well alright
11:22 <@kanzure> yash-phone: you might benefit greatly from installing https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.volosyukivan
11:22 <@kanzure> i forgot about your predicament
11:24 < yash-phone> I have a keyboard it's just this | | big
11:24 <@kanzure> this lets you type with a normal keyboard from a computer
11:25 < yash-phone> where would I get one of those
11:25 <@kanzure> a computer?
11:26 < yash-phone> why do you think I'm on my phone
11:27 <@kanzure> because you said so the other day
11:27 < yash-phone> I am, but computers don't grow on trees I mean
11:29 < yash-phone> anyway I must thai
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11:32 <@kanzure> ... yep.
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12:04 < curtiss> hello
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12:33 < juri_> hio!
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13:31 <@kanzure> huh, the "android atom x86 system image:10" is much faster than the android-x86 tablet image.. boots in three seconds.
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14:34 < eudoxia> so apparently anders sandberg is 40 years old
14:34 < eudoxia> how does he look so young
14:34 < eudoxia> guys i think he figured out all that life extension stuff
14:35 <@kanzure> he uses the same profile picture from 20 years ago
14:35 <@kanzure> look it up.
14:36 < eudoxia> his flickr has a shitload of pretty picturee
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15:07 <@kanzure> cp: not found
15:07 <@kanzure> android :(
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17:54 <@kanzure> http://todotxt.com/ not sure yet.
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17:56 <@kanzure> doesn't seem to do task dependencies, path planning, assignment, or timestamps.
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17:57 <@kanzure> w
17:57 <@kanzure> fdjadklfja
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18:52 <@fenn> jrayhawk: the idea was to use squid to insert an image processing step for converting black on white pages to white on black pages, where appropriate
18:52 < jrayhawk> oh okay
18:52 < jrayhawk> i thought you were solving your complaints about browsers having dumb caching behavior
18:52 < jrayhawk> You can define your own CSS overrides
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18:54 <@fenn> yeah but css doesn't invert "only images with white backgrounds"
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19:02 <@kanzure> you could copy an image to a