--- Log opened Wed Feb 13 00:00:59 2013 00:12 <@kanzure> "geneart does their synthesis on ordinary tecans. they dont have specialized "synthesizers" at all." 00:19 <@kanzure> nmz787: let's run a mask through stanford's mems facility 00:31 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-24-6-18-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:35 -!- indi [~indigenou@pdpc/supporter/student/indigenous] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:36 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-24-6-18-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 00:45 <@kanzure> http://www.epiloglaser.com/laser_faqs.htm#qspot 00:47 <@kanzure> nmz787: do you have a link to your laser cutter test results? 00:52 <@kanzure> "Opera to switch to WebKit rendering engine" http://www.opera.com/press/releases/2013/02/13/ 00:52 <@kanzure> whaat. 00:57 -!- indigenous [~indigenou@85.210.227.2] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:57 -!- indigenous [~indigenou@85.210.227.2] has quit [Changing host] 00:57 -!- indigenous [~indigenou@pdpc/supporter/student/indigenous] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:18 < archels> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nphoton/journal/v7/n2/pdf/nphoton.2012.329.pdf 01:18 <@paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/a29da6d6b1bab6a6545c1be705004e9e.pdf 01:19 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o paperbot] by kanzure 01:19 < archels> Marker-free phase nanoscopy 01:35 -!- ManaLord [~manalord@c-318fe455.37-0081-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:36 -!- ParahSailin [~eg@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:38 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:57 -!- ielo [~ielo@cpc9-addl4-2-0-cust229.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:00 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:03 <@kanzure> hmm they stopped supporting gtkmozembed in 2011, https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.embedding/c_NMcO-N8wo/discussion 02:05 <@kanzure> haha lkcl is ranting in that thread, hilarious 02:20 -!- Thorbinator [~Thorbinat@76-14-130-152.rk.wavecable.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:20 -!- Thorbinator [~Thorbinat@76-14-130-152.rk.wavecable.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:32 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:35 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:08 < nmz787> kanzure: laser cutter results? 03:09 <@kanzure> i think you did a few cuts and then ran it through a .. um. a mass spec maybe?? 03:09 <@kanzure> no.. it wasn't a microscope, but you ended up with microscopy images anyway. 03:09 <@kanzure> and i can't find that link. 03:10 < nmz787> ahh 03:10 < nmz787> i don't think i have those pics up anywhere 03:10 <@kanzure> then how did i see them 03:11 < nmz787> maybe they were on an old server that's not up anymore? 03:11 < nmz787> email? 03:13 <@kanzure> :( 03:14 < nmz787> i saw them last week 03:26 -!- sylph_mako_origi [~mako@103-9-42-3.flip.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:46 -!- heath [quassel@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:6e5b] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02 -!- ManaLord [~manalord@c-318fe455.37-0081-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:35 -!- ielo [~ielo@cpc9-addl4-2-0-cust229.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:39 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:43 -!- heath [quassel@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:6e5b] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:11 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:22 < chris_99> http://thepaperbay.com/ 05:25 < superkuh> http://reddit.com/r/scholar is a bit more established. 05:26 < chris_99> ooh cool 05:26 < chris_99> i think we need a P2P program though :) 05:27 < chris_99> to do this automatically 05:27 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@gateway/tor-sasl/barriers] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:32 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@gateway/tor-sasl/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:52 -!- yorick [~yorick@vredebest.xs4all.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:52 -!- yorick [~yorick@vredebest.xs4all.nl] has quit [Changing host] 05:52 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:33 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:44 -!- underscor [~quassel@199.96.82.64] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:17 -!- yorick [~yorick@vredebest.xs4all.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:17 -!- yorick [~yorick@vredebest.xs4all.nl] has quit [Changing host] 07:17 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:21 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@p54B4F0F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:21 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@p54B4F0F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:21 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:34 -!- ielo [~ielo@cpc9-addl4-2-0-cust229.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:45 -!- chido [chidori@pasky.or.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:46 -!- ephialtes480 [~Ephialtes@93.174.93.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:18 -!- phm [~anon@host-2-100-241-98.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:36 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:59 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-24-6-18-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:20 -!- klafka_ [~klafka@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:23 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-24-6-18-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:36 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:36 -!- phm [~anon@host-2-100-241-98.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:39 -!- ielo [~ielo@cpc9-addl4-2-0-cust229.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:56 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:02 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:02 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Client Quit] 10:02 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:11 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:12 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:18 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:19 -!- chido [chidori@pasky.or.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:51 -!- ParahSailin [~eg@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:55 <@kanzure> i like how incomplete this is, http://thepaperbay.com/others/ 10:55 <@kanzure> "If you are operating another service along these lines of if you are aware of one please let me know through j@ww.com , and I'll update this page." 10:55 <@kanzure> what's funny is that i have actually had extremely long email threads with him in the past, and he's well aware of the existence of other initiatives 11:05 <@kanzure> http://www.jacquesmattheij.com/introducing-thepaperbay 11:15 <@kanzure> ah, various news commentary http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5212186 11:17 < ParahSailin> there's boxes with data fields and a submit box, but what's on the other side? 11:17 < ParahSailin> a hyperintelligent paperbot hooked into a university network? 11:17 < ParahSailin> site owner manually completing requests? 11:20 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-11.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:22 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: not even that.. he's expecting other users to fulfill requests. 11:24 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://eplex.cs.ucf.edu/papers/risi_alife12.pdf 11:24 <@kanzure> "An Enhanced Hypercube-Based Encoding for Evolving the Placement, Density and Connectivity of Neurons " 11:24 <@kanzure> http://eplex.cs.ucf.edu/publications/2012/risi-alife12 11:24 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/edfdd2ce0e54e4ad7e04faac7bf69674.pdf 11:25 < ParahSailin> kanzure: i can't see outstanding requests there, how would i help fulfill them 11:25 <@kanzure> maybe they have all been satisfied 11:26 < ParahSailin> hm, probably 11:26 <@kanzure> also, i'm posting pdfparanoia to HN if anyone wants to upvote https://github.com/kanzure/pdfparanoia 11:29 <@kanzure> hmm http://wesleytansey.com/the-acm-is-violoating-the-can-spam-act/ 11:29 < ParahSailin> cool good job on watermark removal 11:30 <@kanzure> paperbot is using pdfparanoia at the moment 11:48 < ParahSailin> oh god-- guy-who-left's code is awful and its my job to salvage 11:49 <@kanzure> hire a lawyer, hit the gym, quit, etc. 11:55 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:00 -!- archbox_ [~archie@unaffiliated/archbox] has quit [Quit: bye] 12:05 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:20 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:37 -!- soylentbomb [~k@unaffiliated/soylentbomb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:43 -!- AlonzoTG [~atg@dsl092-168-049.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:47 -!- AlonzoTG [~atg@dsl092-168-049.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:49 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:52 -!- He||eshin [~talinck@69-61-156-24.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:53 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:54 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@69-61-156-24.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:57 <@kanzure> scholar.google.com seems to be broken 12:59 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.physics.rutgers.edu/ugrad/387/388s06/film_deposition/Musgraves05.pdf 12:59 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/5d621e5501b976c228062d92946b3cde.pdf 13:09 < nmz787> kanzure: this paper from 2004 is saying oligos were $0.11 per base... WHAT? http://arep.med.harvard.edu/pdf/Tian04.pdf 13:10 <@kanzure> not surprised 13:11 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:12 < nmz787> paperbot: http://arep.med.harvard.edu/pdf/Tian04.pdf 13:12 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/d7780918d5a9afbc18cf1b255ef035ce.pdf 13:18 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:19 -!- ielo [~ielo@cpc9-addl4-2-0-cust229.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:20 < nmz787> ttyl 13:23 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:28 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:39 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:07 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09 <@kanzure> http://computerhistory.org/atchm/adobe-photoshop-source-code/ 14:09 <@kanzure> http://torrentfreak.com/anti-piracy-group-rips-off-pirate-bay-website-faces-lawsuit-130213/ 14:20 <@kanzure> sciquest integration guide http://supplier.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/SuppliercXMLIntegrationSpecification_V3-1.pdf 14:20 <@kanzure> transcriptic/max hodak stuff, pre-transcriptic http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/18/tune-in-start-up-drop-out/ 14:26 -!- zunderkopf [~chatzilla@62-46-201-131.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:27 -!- zunderkopf [~chatzilla@62-46-201-131.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 18.0.2/20130201065344]] 14:31 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 14:33 -!- Juul [~Juul@50-0-146-110.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:35 <@kanzure> wow, heroku crippled itself http://rapgenius.com/James-somers-herokus-ugly-secret-lyrics 14:38 -!- Juul [~Juul@50-0-146-110.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:50 -!- Juul [~Juul@50-0-146-110.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:51 < klafka_> remember 14:51 < Juul> hm, not sure my last messages got through 14:51 < klafka_> OWNED BY SALESFORCE 14:51 < Juul> anyone know anything about this Jacques Mattheij? 14:51 < Juul> if he is a dutch citizen living in somewhere that's not the U.S. then it's kinda foolish to use a .com domain 14:51 < Juul> that makes extradition to the u.s. much more likely 14:51 < klafka_> why? 14:52 <@kanzure> Juul: yeah i've talked with jacques often 14:52 <@kanzure> Juul: he's very responsive by email, j@ww.com 14:53 < Juul> ok 14:54 <@kanzure> are you back in the US? 14:55 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.cell.com/retrieve/pii/S0092867412015000 14:55 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/System-wide%20Rewiring%20Underlies%20Behavioral%20Differences%20in%20Predatory%20and%20Bacterial-Feeding%20Nematodes.pdf 14:55 < Juul> kanzure, yep! 14:55 < Juul> only questioned for half an hour at the border :-S 14:55 <@kanzure> https://github.com/openworm/CElegansNeuroML 14:55 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:56 <@kanzure> https://optimal-neuron.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ 14:56 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:57 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0050276 14:57 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Robust%20Short-Term%20Memory%20without%20Synaptic%20Learning.pdf 14:58 < chris_99> re. pdf paranoia kanzure someone had a good idea on HN, you could grab the paper from multiple users and do a diff, and remove user specific id's 14:58 <@kanzure> most users do not have access to multiple sources of the same paper 14:59 <@kanzure> however, i have done that diffing process manually for nature and sciencedirect and found that the hashes are exactly the same. 14:59 <@kanzure> obviously, this needs to be performed for all of the other publishers. but so far i don't think it's happening. 14:59 <@kanzure> i mean, so far i don't think any publisher is watermarking images or including hidden tracking data. 14:59 < chris_99> aha 14:59 <@kanzure> based on my testing. 15:03 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:04 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:24 <@kanzure> valve is dumping jeri ellsworth? that seems like a crazy thing to do. 15:29 < streety> if anyone was you would assume it would be one of those two 15:30 < streety> ^ in ref to the tracking of pdf files 15:31 <@kanzure> hmm well, nature seems to not include visible watermarks either. i assume they put some thought into this and they chose not to. 15:33 < streety> cool, I have something of a love/hate relationship with nature - I love that they send me free print editions of nature methods but hate I, at least personally, don't have electronic access. Seems strange 15:34 <@kanzure> how do you get print editions of nature methods for free? 15:34 < Juul> yeah how? 15:34 < Juul> i'm like a third author or some such on a couple of articles in the next edition 15:34 < Juul> would be fun to have a print 15:35 < streety> Seems to be a thing they do, nothing special about me. I just fill out a 5 min survey maybe once a year 15:35 <@kanzure> s/third author/third wheel/ (the guy who wrote most of it, probably) 15:35 <@kanzure> can you give us a link to that survey..? 15:35 < Juul> haha, actually the first author did most of the work 15:35 <@kanzure> ah good 15:35 < streety> I'll try and find it 15:35 < streety> Juul: what are the articles on? 15:37 -!- ielo [~ielo@cpc9-addl4-2-0-cust229.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:44 < streety> I can't find the link I initially used to subscribe, only the renewal links but they ask for an account number 15:45 <@kanzure> can you show the renewal link, possibly with a modified id? 15:47 < streety> http://www.sunbeltfs.com/forms/nh/lookup.asp?eid=R99999 15:48 <@kanzure> fbi replied to my foia, i have a request id <3 15:48 < streety> what did you request? 15:48 <@kanzure> anything related to me. 15:50 < streety> would they release anything interesting/currently active? 15:51 <@kanzure> unfortunately their letter is just telling me the request id number 15:57 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:03 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:10 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987710002045 16:11 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/The%20unreasonable%20effectiveness%20of%20my%20self-experimentation.pdf 16:12 -!- barriers [~barriers@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:13 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@gateway/tor-sasl/barriers] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:16 < streety> what is paperbot? 16:16 < Juul> streety, predictable composable promoters and ribosome binding sites 16:17 < streety> I shall look out for it 16:19 <@kanzure> paperbot is just a bot that downloads papers given links to academic publishers 16:22 -!- barriers [~barriers@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:24 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@gateway/tor-sasl/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:24 < streety> cool, what does the bit about the translator mean? 16:25 <@kanzure> paperbot uses zotero to download papers and metadata, but sometimes that doesn't work and i wrote a backup. 16:25 <@kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot#readme 16:26 <@kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/translation-server 16:26 <@kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/translators 16:27 -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:27 -!- barriers [~barriers@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30 -!- barriers [~barriers@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:35 -!- nmz787_ [~androirc@static-50-43-81-14.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:35 < nmz787_> Sup 16:38 <@kanzure> trying to score a copy of nature methods for everyone, so far no luck 16:39 < nmz787_> I've downloaded their paparrs 16:39 < nmz787_> Via if 16:39 < streety> kanzure, I think last time I renewed they gave an option to forward the offer to interested colleagues 16:39 < nmz787_> Via UC berkeley 16:39 < nmz787_> I think 16:40 < mutagen> if i went to berkly 16:40 < mutagen> i wouldnt tell anyone 16:40 < mutagen> id be afraid theyd think i was some communist hippie drug addict 16:41 < nmz787_> I don't go there, so I guess I'm OK 16:41 < nmz787_> BUT I'VE 16:41 < nmz787_> considered it 16:42 < nmz787_> Android touchtyping sucks compared to apple 16:42 < nmz787_> I was so much better on my old flip phone 16:42 < nmz787_> With T9 16:43 < nmz787_> Kanzure you mentioned running a mask at Stanford... Just to have a relative comparison? 16:44 < nmz787_> That paper I found earlier simply reversed the last projectorle 16:44 < nmz787_> Lens before mounting it in front of the microscope ocular 16:44 < nmz787_> So I'm pretty close to doing a DLP mask exposure 16:45 < nmz787_> The lab even has some old Su-8 16:45 < nmz787_> Really old though, so its a toss up if it works 16:45 <@kanzure> no i mentioned running the mask and chip production just to have a working chip 16:46 <@kanzure> for android typing i suggest https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.volosyukivan 16:46 < streety> kanzure - I'm just going through the renewal process now (so will probably be getting two copies again next month) and have the option to supply names for three colleagues who would like to receive copies 16:47 <@kanzure> streety: when that happens, can you show me the renewal form so i can see if it is vulnerable to an exploit? i definitely know >3 people who want this.. 16:47 <@kanzure> oh wait 16:47 < nmz787_> Man 16:47 <@kanzure> you gave the link earlier 16:47 < nmz787_> Kanzurr 16:48 < nmz787_> Kanzure that link doesn't improve phone input 16:48 <@kanzure> it does if you have a laptop 16:48 < nmz787_> I am on my phone though 16:48 < nmz787_> No laptop 16:50 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:51 -!- Urchin[Emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:52 < streety> kanzure it may be possible to just add additional fields to the form but I think the simplest approach will be to daisy chain requests - I invite 3 people who, because you don't seem to need to wait until the end of your subscription, immediately invite 3 others, etc 16:53 -!- Juul [~Juul@50-0-146-110.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] 16:54 <@kanzure> streety: could you try this for me? 16:54 <@kanzure> streety: http://www.sunbeltfs.com/forms/nh/lookup.asp?eid=R99999%22%3E%3Cscript%20type=%22text/javascript%22%3Ealert('hi');%3C/script%3E%3C%22 16:55 <@kanzure> chrome seems to block it because it sees the javascript in the request url. damn. 16:55 < streety> :/ that actually works for me 16:55 <@kanzure> ha ha ha 16:55 <@kanzure> so you get the alert? 16:55 < streety> yeah 16:55 <@kanzure> fantastic.. now we can start our evil scheme to read science and learn things. :( 16:58 -!- safitan [~safitan@75-105-12-23.cust.wildblue.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:00 -!- mutagen [~safitan@75-105-12-23.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:01 < nmz787_> Kanzure what 3 ppls should I list? 17:01 < nmz787_> Anyone? 17:01 <@kanzure> i don't get it. anyone can list themselves? then why is there a for-pay version at all? 17:05 < nmz787_> Thank you for applying for a free subscription to Nature Methods. 17:05 < nmz787_> Thank you for applying for a free subscription to Nature Methods. We will inform you shortly if your application has been successful. 17:06 < nmz787_> Well then, ok! 17:06 < streety> excellent, what did you need to do? 17:06 < nmz787_> Just name address and survey 17:07 < nmz787_> I clicked that link that said somethin about 'if youbdont have an account' 17:07 -!- augur_ [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:07 < nmz787_> Using the 'hi( 17:07 < nmz787_> 'Hi' popup link 17:08 < nmz787_> You will be notified by way of e-mail as to the status of your application. 17:09 < streety> it says that every time I renew 17:09 < nmz787_> You will be notified by way of e-mail as to the status of your application. A limited number of subscriptions to Nature Methods are available to qualifying life scientists and chemists in North America and Europe. Due to the limited availability, not all applicants will qualify. We ask for your patience in this process as we receive a large number of applicants. 17:09 <@kanzure> "limited availability"... of digital content -_-. 17:09 < nmz787_> What is sunbeltfs? 17:09 < nmz787_> Is it digital or paper 17:10 <@kanzure> "Authentification, (which can include username and password) allowing subscriber access to publishers web site or denying access. Sending messages to subscribers on their current subscription status." 17:10 <@kanzure> "Allowing subscribers to renew, make a payment, change address or reverify their subscription online real time and sending an instant email acknowledging." 17:10 <@kanzure> maybe this is how nature manages subscriptions.. 17:11 < nmz787_> That's what sunbelt does? Auth? 17:11 <@kanzure> yes that is from sunbeltfs.com 17:11 <@kanzure> this has a list of related pages: https://www.google.com/search?q=sunbeltfs+nature 17:12 <@kanzure> nature climate change: https://www.sunbeltfs.com/forms/nq/subscribe.asp 17:12 < streety> my understanding is this is only paper subscriptions 17:12 <@kanzure> nature biotechnology: http://www.sunbeltfs.com/forms/bi/lookup.asp?eid=z61099 17:12 <@kanzure> old nature methods link (their page looks broken) https://www.sunbeltfs.com/forms/nh/subscribe.asp?eid=E710XZ 17:13 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:13 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: free print subscription to nature methods, http://www.sunbeltfs.com/forms/nh/lookup.asp?eid=R99999%22%3E%3Cscript%20type=%22text/javascript%22%3Ealert('hi');%3C/script%3E%3C%22 17:14 -!- safitan is now known as mutagen 17:14 < yashgaroth> looks a little sketch 17:15 <@kanzure> the whole science publishing industry is sketch skeet. 17:16 < yashgaroth> well whatever I can just have it sent to the carlsbad lab 17:17 < yashgaroth> does the one for nature biotechnology work too? 17:18 <@kanzure> "Publisher reserves the right to limit complimentary subscriptions to qualified individuals." 17:18 <@kanzure> it looks the same 17:18 < yashgaroth> hmm what's a good title and company to make up 17:19 <@kanzure> Blackhat Molecular 17:20 < yashgaroth> let me know how your foia pull looks when you get it 17:20 <@kanzure> sure 17:21 < mutagen> lol 17:21 < jrayhawk> Requests for your FBI file go into your FBI file 17:21 < mutagen> im white hat 17:21 < mutagen> i work for the nsa 17:21 <@kanzure> mutagen: stop lying dude. i'm tired of your crap. 17:21 < mutagen> lol 17:22 * mutagen punches kanzure 17:22 <@kanzure> /kick mutagen 17:22 * mutagen punches kanzure in the cocksucker 17:22 < mutagen> lol 17:22 < yashgaroth> preeeetty sure he's that dixiebassline schizo 17:22 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+q mutagen!*@*] by kanzure 17:22 <@kanzure> yes, it's all in the logs. 17:22 < streety> the company name an address don't need to make sense - I've listed an residential address 200 miles from the company name/institution 17:23 < streety> *and 17:23 -!- mutagen [~safitan@75-105-12-23.cust.wildblue.net] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 17:23 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-q mutagen!*@*] by kanzure 17:24 -!- dixiebassline [~safitan@75-105-12-23.cust.wildblue.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:25 <@kanzure> aha 17:25 <@kanzure> https://www.sunbeltfs.com/forms/na/digital.asp 17:25 <@kanzure> " 17:26 <@kanzure> "Complimentary subscriptions to Nature Digital Edition are available to qualified applicants. Nature Digital Edition is a weekly digital reproduction of the print edition plus all the benefits of electronic navigation for your convenience." 17:27 -!- nmz787_ [~androirc@static-50-43-81-14.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:30 * dixiebassline fucks yashgaroth with a chainsaw 17:30 < dixiebassline> mind your own business 17:30 < yashgaroth> uh huh 17:31 < dixiebassline> Blackhat Molecular 17:31 < dixiebassline> let me know how your foia pull looks when you get it 17:31 < dixiebassline> blackhat and whitehat are just subjective 17:32 < dixiebassline> im afk 17:32 < yashgaroth> that's nice, dear 17:33 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/protocolexchange/protocols/153 17:33 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/ed47ec5170f7d965b71ed031089e8442.txt 17:34 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nprot/journal/v7/n12/abs/nprot.2012.115.html 17:34 < paperbot> HTTP 401 unauthorized http://www.nature.com/nprot/journal/v7/n12/pdf/nprot.2012.115.pdf 17:34 <@kanzure> it's supposed to be "Generation of human induced pluripotent stem cells from urine samples" 17:35 <@kanzure> google still sucks at pdf->html, geeze http://scholar.googleusercontent.com/scholar?q=cache:e7xWwRhdVhUJ:scholar.google.com/&hl=en&as_sdt=0,44 17:35 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://jasn.asnjournals.org/content/22/7/1221.short 17:35 < paperbot> error: HTTP 300 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Generation%20of%20Induced%20Pluripotent%20Stem%20Cells%20from%20Urine.pdf 17:35 <@kanzure> there we go 17:39 <@kanzure> "The human kidney contains an extensive network of tubules whose total surface is bigger than the skin. As part of normal physiology approximately 2000 to 7000 cells from this tubular system and downstream parts of the urinary tract (ureters, bladder, and urethra) detach and are excreted in urine daily." 17:41 <@kanzure> oh hm. retroviruses. 17:41 < yashgaroth> yup 17:46 < dixiebassline> www.reddit.com/user/yashgaroth/ 17:47 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+q dixiebassline!*@*] by kanzure 17:47 < yashgaroth> my terrible secret revealed 17:50 < ThomasEgi> a terrible secret ?.. so... how much would you pay me for not clicking this link? :p 17:51 < yashgaroth> I don't know how his elite haxxing skills uncovered that I have a reddit account, but I will pay you all the bitcoins you require 17:51 < yashgaroth> now he's PMing me about shit 17:52 <@kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veTxerywR9c 17:52 <@kanzure> .title 17:52 < yoleaux> A cleared spinal cord tissue of a GFP-M mouse imaged with 2-photon microscopy. - YouTube 17:52 < ThomasEgi> bitcoins sound fun. too bad i'm not an asshole squeezing out money of people. so i'll not click it for free 17:52 < yashgaroth> now he's just repeatedly posting that link in PMs 17:53 <@kanzure> yeah now he's harrassing me in another channel 17:53 < yashgaroth> he seems to be mad that I dislike reddit, what a fucking surprise 17:53 <@kanzure> for someone who dislikes reddit, you sure do use it a lot 17:53 < ThomasEgi> yashgaroth, mental image of "fucking surprise" ... caused me a giggle 17:54 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nprot/journal/v7/n12/abs/nprot.2012.140.html 17:54 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Monitoring%20local%20synaptic%20activity%20with%20astrocytic%20patch%20pipettes.pdf 17:54 < yashgaroth> you consider that 'a lot'? 17:54 < jrayhawk> 2012-06-12 20:32 < atum> tomorrow is my last day of highschool, and i dont have any real direction. currently im looking into becoming a rapper 17:55 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Quit: Quit] 17:58 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: ? 17:58 < yashgaroth> same guy 17:59 < ThomasEgi> a rapper?.. that Is a real direction.. 17:59 < ThomasEgi> really straight down 18:00 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: yes, this is gl00m/safitan/ArmilusDajjal/TheBeast666/dixiebassline 18:02 -!- SphericalMouse [62cfd610@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.207.214.16] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:03 <@kanzure> SphericalMouse: hello 18:03 < SphericalMouse> Yo Kanzure 18:03 < SphericalMouse> You asked me to drop by? 18:03 <@kanzure> which one are you? 18:03 < SphericalMouse> indeed, who? 18:03 < SphericalMouse> bioautomation at biocurious 18:03 <@kanzure> you are either the biocurious person or the desktop person or the-- ah okay. 18:04 <@kanzure> SphericalMouse: i was hoping you could talk about your project a bit 18:04 < SphericalMouse> well, to be fair, the kickoff meeting is on sunday, so project is a bit generous 18:05 <@kanzure> have you built any lab equipment before? 18:07 < SphericalMouse> of sorts. I've done lots of microfluiducs and lab automation in labview. cell culture, image capture, experimental system design, fabrication, and control of PDMS microfluidics system, blah blah. 18:07 < SphericalMouse> made a reprap too, if that counts 18:07 <@kanzure> yes that definitely counts 18:07 <@kanzure> we were working on a laser cutter to improve the prototyping times for microfluidic devices, 18:08 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/laser_etcher 18:08 < SphericalMouse> yeah, I saw 18:08 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/nucleic/fbi-diybio-dna-v1.pdf 18:08 <@kanzure> ah okay, cool 18:08 < SphericalMouse> that can make channels, but I'm not sur if it would work for valved PDMS devices 18:08 <@kanzure> quake valves? 18:08 < SphericalMouse> yes 18:09 <@kanzure> how many iterations before a microfluidic chip would start working for you? 18:09 < SphericalMouse> depends on what features you're adding. a simple chip you can make the first time. you need cleanroom access though 18:10 < SphericalMouse> those systems are very sensitive to microscale features 18:10 < yashgaroth> how clean of a cleanroom? 18:10 <@kanzure> well, i was estimating 100 iterations to knock out bugs from a potential design, but someone yesterday was telling me i was off by a factor of 10. 18:11 <@kanzure> (he was saying only 10 prototypes) 18:11 < SphericalMouse> it really depends on how agressive your features are 18:11 <@kanzure> basic channels, valves, a few world-to-chip ports. 18:11 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:11 < SphericalMouse> for example, usually the channels are something lke 15 microns tall, but I spent a few months trying to make 0.5 micron channels work 18:12 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:12 < SphericalMouse> ports are easy, valves take a few practice runs to learn the alignment technique, but then you're trained, basica channel are easy, if you make the molds right 18:13 < nmz787> hi 18:13 <@kanzure> how long per chip did it take to bake? 18:13 < SphericalMouse> the cleanroom doesn't really have to be clean, there are magic tricks for pulling off dust 18:13 < nmz787> like plasma etch? 18:13 < SphericalMouse> about hours total 18:13 < SphericalMouse> no, scotch tape 18:13 < SphericalMouse> 8 hours 18:14 < yashgaroth> I mean, a tissue culture hood makes a pretty good cleanroom 18:14 <@kanzure> holy hell i would cry if it took 8 hours to test a new version of my software 18:15 < SphericalMouse> you can finish a chip in a day if you start early and do it like a machine. you need to make the mold previously 18:15 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: doesn't spin-coating get the thickness right? 18:15 < SphericalMouse> for what? 18:15 < nmz787> are you saying you played with spin-coater settings to get from 15 to 0.5? 18:16 < nmz787> 18:11 < SphericalMouse> for example, usually the channels are something lke 15 18:16 < nmz787> microns tall, but I spent a few months trying to make 18:16 < SphericalMouse> the mold determines the channel height 18:16 < nmz787> 0.5 micron channels work 18:16 < SphericalMouse> you just use a thinner photoresist 18:16 <@kanzure> we've been thinking of just skipping the mold step and using laz0rs or dlp 18:16 < nmz787> what 18:16 < nmz787> ? 18:16 < nmz787> you didn't make your own molds SphericalMouse ? 18:17 < SphericalMouse> of course I did 18:17 < nmz787> so why did it take you months to figure out the thickness? 18:17 < SphericalMouse> but you may have a different idea of processing than I use 18:17 < SphericalMouse> because the channels would collapse 18:17 < nmz787> seems like you just do 10 runs, develop a curve of thickness vs RPM or time 18:18 < nmz787> you mean aspect ratio? 18:18 < nmz787> of height to width? 18:18 < SphericalMouse> the mold is easy to make, you can vary the spin speed, as you said, and measure it on a profilometer 18:18 < nmz787> of the channel? 18:18 < SphericalMouse> partially, yes. 18:18 < nmz787> kanzure: link to that test pattern? 18:18 < SphericalMouse> also, the mask quality made a big difference 18:18 <@kanzure> huh? that was your test pattern, shouldn't you have the link? 18:18 * kanzure digs 18:18 < nmz787> yeah but you mirrored it 18:19 < SphericalMouse> usually we would use transparancy masks, but those have low quality at small feature sizes 18:19 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/mccorkle_tomkins-tinch_microchannels.svg 18:19 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: that's what I would start with on any system 18:20 < nmz787> then you can test all the different aspect ratios at once 18:20 < nmz787> to see which dont work 18:20 < nmz787> cool 18:21 < nmz787> so what are you going to start working with for mold production? 18:21 < SphericalMouse> I just don't now if laser cutting PDMS would create the channels you need 18:21 < nmz787> i just got DLP projector ripped apart the other day, and got it focused to about 1 cm so i can feed it into my microscope 18:22 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: yeah it can, but I've abandonded it due to the positioning system being PITA 18:22 < SphericalMouse> I mean, have you actually gotten valves to work using it? 18:22 -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:22 < nmz787> I can oversample position information optically with a camera and re-position by oversampling pixels on the projector to correct for alignment issues 18:23 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: nope, but valves are easy according to their prevalence in the literature 18:24 < nmz787> I've actually just learned about a microfluidic device for touchscreens that might work as a valve controller 18:24 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: what was your trouble with valves? 18:24 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: it sounds like you had to figure out aspect ratio to prevent channel collapse, what else? 18:24 < SphericalMouse> the fluid channel needs a pretty recise cross-sectional geometry to get good sealing 18:24 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: were you not replicating a previously published protocol? 18:25 < nmz787> i have some 3D scans of some laser cut microchannels in PDMS 18:25 <@kanzure> ah that's the thing i wanted earlier 18:25 < SphericalMouse> ok, toss em up 18:26 < nmz787> it was on silicon so cut-through didn't occur, and the channel bottoms were swiis-cheese-like 18:26 < nmz787> lemme fire up this external drive 18:27 < klafka_> http://life.nationalpost.com/2013/02/12/totally-drug-resistant-tuberculosis-spreading-in-south-africa-as-researchers-warn-outbreak-of-bacteria-would-be-untreatable/ 18:27 < klafka_> eep 18:28 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: http://nathanmccorkle.com/pdf/jmm9_3_037002.pdf 18:28 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://nathanmccorkle.com/pdf/jmm9_3_037002.pdf 18:28 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/65ebbce757594db82c8d27cc43c72fd1.pdf 18:30 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: so the main thing with laser cutting is you want CW laser, not pulsed, and you'd ideally use servos not steppers to smooth it all out 18:31 < nmz787> SphericalMouse kanzure here are the veeco interferometer pics of PDMS cut with a Universal Laser Systems desktop laser 18:31 < SphericalMouse> I don't think valves would work with those channels as shown 18:31 < nmz787> https://picasaweb.google.com/109403794341975968814/DIY02?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCMvrhpPZ9MWIAg&feat=directlink 18:32 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: why not? 18:33 < SphericalMouse> they would probably form a poor seal, you need your fluid chamber to have curved edges or you get leaks 18:33 < SphericalMouse> depends how critical that is 18:33 < nmz787> huh? why wouldn't bonding the layers seal it? 18:33 < SphericalMouse> no, leaks around the valves 18:34 < nmz787> add more PSI? 18:34 < nmz787> I've always seen people in MEMS going for as straight as possible 18:34 < nmz787> it's easier to model, for instance 18:34 < SphericalMouse> it depends on the device 18:35 < nmz787> mmm 18:35 < nmz787> yeah but anyway I've abandoned that because of the aforementioned reasons 18:35 < nmz787> the laser cutting part 18:36 < SphericalMouse> the quake valve style channels have a parabolic cross-section, something like a 100 um across and ~15 high in the center, with very little roughness 18:36 <@kanzure> fenn: what was that absurdly cheap, really awesome, 32-channel oscilloscope? 18:36 < SphericalMouse> the channels you linked are fine for a flow through device 18:39 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: have you seen other valve styles? 18:39 < SphericalMouse> there is the stuff out of rich mathies lab 18:40 < SphericalMouse> they have a suck up rather than push down style 18:40 < SphericalMouse> there you would have un patterned pdms, and then you could cut out channels from some substrate 18:40 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: i've seen this style, and others like it http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0925400511008537-gr1.jpg 18:41 < SphericalMouse> thats something like what i'm talking about 18:42 < nmz787> luckily there's so much research on aspect ratio in photoresist, getting channels to be more parabolic probably means using a cheaper photoresist 18:42 < SphericalMouse> you just put down an appropriate PR, pattern it, then melt it 18:43 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: ahh here's what you're describing as the problem http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0924424706000914-gr3.gif 18:43 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: before you develop it? 18:43 < SphericalMouse> no, afterwards 18:43 < nmz787> i thought the developer just washed away unpolymerized reagent 18:44 < SphericalMouse> yah, that link is basically the problem 18:44 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924424706000914 18:44 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Buckled-type%20valves%20integrated%20by%20parylene%20micro-tubes%20.pdf 18:45 < SphericalMouse> different scale, same problem 18:46 < SphericalMouse> you can have rectangular channels for the valve lines (and you usually do), but the fluid lines need structure if the thing is monolithic pdms 18:46 < SphericalMouse> or pushdown vlaves 18:47 < nmz787> so do you work with microfluidics a lot? 18:48 < SphericalMouse> not as much, now its more instrument design 18:49 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: why not do everything on-chip 18:49 < SphericalMouse> it depends 18:50 < nmz787> on? 18:50 < SphericalMouse> integrated chips are expensive, fluidigm sells theirs for a couple of hundred each. if you add stuff to the chip, you toss that away each experiment 18:50 < nmz787> i mean why not make your own 18:50 < nmz787> with everything integrated 18:51 < nmz787> then add the I/O instrument (data, fluids) 18:51 < SphericalMouse> same reason, integrating things takes work. if you can have a bunch of reusable things off chip, then you save having to re-add them to each new one 18:51 < nmz787> if the chips aren't glass, they're pretty cheap in production 18:52 < nmz787> so are you hoping to make some of the micro versions with biocurious? so people in the future can reuse those modules? 18:52 <@kanzure> nmz787: show him your spectrometer 18:52 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: openspectrometer.com 18:53 < SphericalMouse> probably not. making those things is a black art, and most people wouldn't have access to the equipment 18:53 < nmz787> i guess i'm heading to that hackathon next weekend in SF 18:53 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: what do you mean? there are a few DIY mems and photoresist printing projects 18:53 < SphericalMouse> making the molds is the easy part 18:54 < SphericalMouse> mostly 18:54 < SphericalMouse> it would be nice tyo have an automatic mold maker, for sure 18:54 < nmz787> so what's the black art part? 18:55 < SphericalMouse> the timing of the bake, mixtures of the layers, the alignment of the layers, setting the damn things up, getting them running properly 18:55 < nmz787> definitely there's no @home microfluidics cookbook, but from my research it seems totally achievable at home, or in a community lab 18:55 < SphericalMouse> it is 18:56 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:56 < SphericalMouse> but its not trivial to expect someone to make a quality microfluidics device straight off 18:57 < SphericalMouse> my term is "artisan microfluidics" 18:58 < nmz787> right buy why even waste any time on macro equipment anymore? 18:58 < nmz787> there's plenty of room down at the bottom 18:58 < nmz787> i guess it's just preference 18:58 < SphericalMouse> because the equipment required to access the bottom is often more then the equipment required to access the middle 18:59 <@kanzure> how is it a waste? 18:59 < SphericalMouse> the old joke in the microfluidics community is that people will show around a chip, and neglect to mention the gian machine that surrounds it 19:00 <@kanzure> the giant syringe pump? 19:00 < nmz787> this is pretty cool, heating the solution causes it to become ultra viscous http://www.google.com/patents?hl=en&lr=&vid=USPAT6382254 19:00 < SphericalMouse> the pump, the automated microscope, the 60 control lines, the fluid input ports 19:01 -!- balrog [~balrog@discferret/developer/balrog] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:01 < SphericalMouse> it would often take a couple of hours to set up and load a device. mind you, i probably made the most absurd system of all time 19:02 < nmz787> lol 19:02 < nmz787> i'm specifically interested in DNA synthesis, so keeping reagent cost low got me interested in microfluidics in the first place 19:03 < nmz787> but now i have access to nanoscale milling, so I'm looking at nanofluidics too 19:03 < SphericalMouse> i saw, thats definitely an application where you can't have leakage 19:03 < nmz787> and the error correction wouldn't work well at all in macro scale 19:03 < SphericalMouse> ? 19:04 < nmz787> too much loss and reduced signal to noise 19:04 < nmz787> product loss* 19:05 < nmz787> i've been thinking more about electrowetting recently 19:05 < nmz787> i'm not sure if that cuases electrolysis though 19:05 < SphericalMouse> it doesn't 19:05 < nmz787> because no current flow? 19:05 < nmz787> or what? 19:06 < nmz787> i guess current might flow in the moment that a droplet is between electrodes 19:06 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:06 < SphericalMouse> and because you have dielectric materials between the electrode and liquid 19:06 -!- ThomasEgi_ [~thomas@p5B13BBD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:06 < nmz787> ah 19:06 < nmz787> so the electrode is coated in a few nm or microns? 19:06 -!- ThomasEgi_ [~thomas@p5B13BBD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07 < SphericalMouse> probably sub micron, but that isn't my field 19:07 < nmz787> hmm, kanzure if electrowetting doesn't cause electrolysis, maybe we should look into that instead of quake--like vavles 19:07 <@kanzure> jonathan cline did an electrowetting prototype 19:07 < nmz787> there's a few DIY electrowetting videos on youtube 19:07 < nmz787> just using a razon on copper clad 19:08 < SphericalMouse> look into thermocapillary movement 19:08 <@kanzure> http://88proof.com/synthetic_biology/blog/archives/tag/microfluidics 19:08 < nmz787> kanzure: i'm sure there's a nice grid to parallel wire breakout for sale commodity 19:08 -!- balrog [~balrog@discferret/developer/balrog] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:08 < nmz787> kanzure: if not it would probably be within my reach to fab one, for testing 19:09 <@kanzure> what's wrong with macro-machine dna synthesis? 19:09 < nmz787> reagent cost, i thought 19:09 < SphericalMouse> i know some of quakes ex students of have tried it 19:10 < nmz787> i was planning on testing some nano crevice chemistry hiding ideas 19:10 <@kanzure> nmz787: reagent costs are important, but that will go down eventually anyway. the machines still cost a fuckton and they shouldn't. 19:10 < nmz787> kanzure: were you in virginia in 2011? 19:10 <@kanzure> i can't remember. 19:10 < nmz787> i think it was after the NYC meeting 19:10 <@kanzure> maybe not. 19:11 < SphericalMouse> kanzure, did you read the spew I put int he biocurious posting? 19:11 <@kanzure> SphericalMouse: i read your google docs document, and added some things. 19:11 < nmz787> kanzure: i would have to look at the reagent costs 19:11 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: you wrote the whole email? 19:11 < nmz787> the original ? 19:12 < SphericalMouse> patrik wrote a section in the middle 19:12 < nmz787> are you dietrich? 19:12 < SphericalMouse> yes 19:12 < nmz787> ahh nice to 'meet' 19:12 <@kanzure> i think nmz787 used to work for patrik 19:12 < nmz787> i did 19:12 < SphericalMouse> where? 19:12 < nmz787> jbei 19:12 <@kanzure> institute of asskicking 19:13 <@kanzure> oh 19:13 < SphericalMouse> ah indeed. I worked around him a couple of years 19:13 < nmz787> cool 19:13 < nmz787> i was his summer intern 19:13 < SphericalMouse> are you in the sf area? 19:13 < nmz787> portland or now 19:13 < SphericalMouse> ? 19:14 < nmz787> but i'm coming down next weekend to some hardware hackathon 19:14 < nmz787> portland Oregon* 19:14 < SphericalMouse> doing what? 19:14 < nmz787> developing a means to DNA synthesis, currently aiming for micro/nanoscale 19:15 < nmz787> i also seem to just got a job building a combined 3d scanner/printer 19:15 < nmz787> i generally like programming, light, nano/micro stuff, DNA, and metabolic engineering 19:16 < nmz787> but the whole metabolic engineering has been but on hold due to not having a rapid gene compiler 19:17 < SphericalMouse> the biocrious guys are excited about goldenbraid recently 19:18 < nmz787> wazzat? 19:18 < nmz787> (looking now) 19:18 < SphericalMouse> kanzure, what is your take on the lab robot? 19:19 < SphericalMouse> do you have any experience in building lab equipment? 19:20 < SphericalMouse> I think patrik has a point that we should have a need in mind as its made 19:20 < nmz787> how does goldenbraid prevent reverse directional inserts? 19:20 < SphericalMouse> i haven't looked into it 19:21 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=b176f978 Bryan Bishop: las vegas diybio group 19:21 <@kanzure> SphericalMouse: i think we need more open source hardware 19:21 <@kanzure> SphericalMouse: i think it's a shame that reprap is the only major open source hardware project that has a version control system 19:22 <@kanzure> instructables is not how you solicit updates to a project.. 19:22 < SphericalMouse> does it? reprap looks split all over. 19:22 <@kanzure> yes it's very split; they have an upstream svn repo. we were converting them over to git almost, but it exploded in 2010. 19:23 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/reprap 19:24 < SphericalMouse> whats the opinion on makerslide? 19:24 <@kanzure> is that makerbeam? 19:24 < SphericalMouse> aluminum extrusion with rails for sliding platform 19:24 <@kanzure> ah no, this is the makerbeam knock-off 19:24 <@kanzure> i like extruded construction sets in general 19:25 <@kanzure> have you seen cubespawn? 19:25 <@kanzure> http://cubespawn.com/ 19:25 <@kanzure> i think it was all 80/20 19:26 < SphericalMouse> makerslide isn't just an extrusion though, but i've never used it 19:27 <@kanzure> me either 19:27 < SphericalMouse> something akin to the cube is what i'm thinking of as the general frame 19:28 <@kanzure> james wanted to make cubespawn so that he could have stackable, repeatable-reliable frames for moving things around and to build off of. 19:29 < SphericalMouse> the raw extrusions might be easier to work with 19:29 < nmz787> what is cubespawn exactly? 19:30 < nmz787> nothing purchasable 19:30 <@kanzure> nmz787: i think it is supposed to be a set of standards, but there also seems to be some software or something.. 19:30 <@kanzure> he had a campaign on kickstarter at one point, but i don't remember why. 19:30 -!- docl [~docl@50-201-161-43-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:30 < SphericalMouse> what is your take on Bioc? 19:33 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: i liked the place a lot 19:34 < SphericalMouse> any issues I should be aware of? 19:35 <@kanzure> yes, it's run by a cabal 19:35 < nmz787> i think ray may have got rid of some equipment a while ago against the wishes of others 19:35 < nmz787> cabal? 19:35 <@kanzure> a secret group of backstabbers that all secretly hate each other 19:35 < nmz787> ahh 19:35 < nmz787> seems fair 19:35 < SphericalMouse> ? 19:35 < nmz787> i dunno really tho 19:36 < nmz787> just people being weird i think is the general picture 19:36 < nmz787> but it seems to work 19:36 <@kanzure> if you ignore that aspect, otherwise, biocurious seems pretty good... i've been a little disappointed with a few web choices though 19:36 <@kanzure> for instance, publishing the bioprinter to instructables.. yuck. 19:36 <@kanzure> and using pbwiki? who chooses pbwiki these days, geeze. 19:37 < SphericalMouse> whats wrong with instructables? (i haven't really looked at it) 19:37 <@kanzure> instructables is fine for show-and-tell 19:37 <@kanzure> but it's not a version control system for open source projects.. 19:37 < nmz787> patrik is a good guy though, and I know he seems to really enjoy helping out there 19:37 < SphericalMouse> all flash, no depth? 19:37 < SphericalMouse> i see 19:38 <@kanzure> like if i want to update some source code, i can't do that because instructables is for a totally different purpose. 19:38 <@kanzure> if i want to revise some of the cad parts, can't do that either through instructables. 19:38 < curtiss> instructables makes me think of about.com 19:38 <@kanzure> "owned by AOL" ? 19:38 < nmz787> curtiss: how do you mean? 19:39 <@kanzure> about.com has lasted an amazingly long time considering how crappy their pages are. they figured out the longtail stuff pretty fast. 19:39 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: so did you do any of the microfluidics for work? 19:39 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: or was it all hobby? 19:39 < nmz787> kanzure: longtail? 19:39 < SphericalMouse> yechnically, I am a microfluidics engineer, but I haven't done much recently 19:40 < curtiss> nmz787: mostly spammy looking site. possibly some useful stuff in there but who would know due to horrible design 19:40 < SphericalMouse> the microfluidics was during my postdoc 19:40 < docl> I've been considering use of the chick eye model for cryonics research. Chicks are inexpensive, and they have large eyes per unit bodyweight. 19:40 <@kanzure> nmz787: longtail content is the idea of using obscure niche keywords on the web to attract eyeballs. so you might have 1,000 articles about niche topics, but they each get 2-10 views over their lifetime, rather than trying to hit for 1-10 articles that get 20 million views. 19:40 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: so what advice would you give me if i am to continuing pursuing micro/nano DNA synthesis? 19:41 < SphericalMouse> depends on the mode you're operating in. if you are just going to reuse the same parts over and over, you may want to just make a library and then pcr up the parts 19:42 <@kanzure> nmz787: it's called longtail for a number of reasons, but the most obvious reason is because if you look at the distribution of incoming referrals to any website, the vast majority of users tend to come in from one or two search terms, whereas all the other traffic trickles in. of course, in certain markets/niche, the traffic might be more haphazard. 19:42 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: no, denovo is my goal 19:43 < SphericalMouse> beware of materials incompatibilities. sometimes pdms (or other materials) have the tendency to absorb and release solutions that flow through 19:43 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: what about using SU-8, seems pretty compatible 19:43 -!- u-metacognition [~metacogni@99-7-58-96.lightspeed.davlca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:44 < SphericalMouse> I ostensibly work in a company that does a form of DNA synthesis, and the incomplete chemistry is what gets you at each cycle 19:44 < nmz787> cool, that's where i was targeting to tackle 19:44 < SphericalMouse> you basically have zero tolerance for incomplete washing or mixed reagents 19:45 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: ever seen free solution DNA synthesis? 19:45 < SphericalMouse> or low quality reagents 19:45 < SphericalMouse> isn't free solution still done with bead support? 19:46 < nmz787> well i'd consider that solid support 19:46 < SphericalMouse> all synthesis I know of uses solid support or template DNA, but i'm not an expert 19:47 < nmz787> hmm 19:47 < nmz787> do you know how to do CFD? 19:47 < SphericalMouse> yeah, you open up comsol and hit go 19:48 < nmz787> can you tell me what to do to learn? i.e. books, papers, tutorials 19:48 < nmz787> what software should i learn, what should i avoid? 19:48 <@kanzure> comsol haha 19:48 < SphericalMouse> i like comsol 19:48 <@kanzure> yeah comsol is pretty plug and play 19:48 <@kanzure> costs a bunch, grab a copy on thepiratebay 19:48 < nmz787> is it as easy as making the 3d CAD model and literally hitting go? 19:48 <@kanzure> yes if you're using solidworks 19:48 <@kanzure> if you want an open source solution, go pick up a copy of openfoam 19:49 < SphericalMouse> setting boundary conditions 19:49 <@kanzure> it's nothing like comsol but it works 19:49 <@kanzure> comsol is vastly easier to use 19:49 < SphericalMouse> the comsol internal cad is ok 19:49 <@kanzure> or ansys' stuff.. i forget what ansys calls their thing. 19:49 < nmz787> does it have a lib of viscosities n params for common fluids or industrially available chmes? 19:49 < nmz787> chems? 19:49 < SphericalMouse> you can easily paramatrize the geometries 19:49 < SphericalMouse> some 19:50 < nmz787> see that's where my understanding stops 19:50 < SphericalMouse> you should also have a few dozen gigs of ram 19:50 < nmz787> i can think of geometry, surface chemistry, liquid composition (solutes, suspended solids) 19:50 <@kanzure> nmz787: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkmtC0iManM#t=30 19:50 <@kanzure> .title 19:50 < yoleaux> COMSOL Tutorial: Simulating a Closing Gate Valve Part 1 - YouTube 19:51 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: i am a student so there are research computers with those 19:52 < SphericalMouse> you will probably want to avoid putting pirated software on research machines 19:52 < nmz787> no they probably already have it 19:52 < SphericalMouse> but dont worry, a base license of comsol is a mere 12k 19:53 < SphericalMouse> might as well learn it 19:53 < nmz787> kanzure: this vid is pretty good 19:54 < SphericalMouse> you probably dont want the cfd module, the microfluidics is what you're looking for 19:55 < SphericalMouse> and diffusion 19:55 < nmz787> they have a microfluidics module? 19:56 < SphericalMouse> many many modules 19:57 <@kanzure> i get spam from comsol in my inbox :( 19:57 <@kanzure> "Reminder: COMSOL Multiphysics Version 4 Workshop in Austin Tomorrow" 19:57 <@kanzure> shit like that 19:57 <@kanzure> SphericalMouse: have you ever used git? 19:58 < SphericalMouse> no, but johann sundqvist is your best friend 19:58 < nmz787> just pinged the director of Research Computing re COMSOL 19:58 <@kanzure> if you have comsol, then you probably have it through citrix or some other shitty file storage system assigned to you 19:59 <@kanzure> actually, jules will know 19:59 < SphericalMouse> i have not ussed git 19:59 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: what about him? 19:59 <@kanzure> 19:59 <@jblake> dunno 19:59 < SphericalMouse> he is the king of comsol spam 19:59 <@kanzure> so much for that 20:00 <@kanzure> ah really? 20:00 < SphericalMouse> never really needed something like that 20:00 -!- lord_hackr [~lord_hack@85.159.236.219] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:01 <@kanzure> lord_hackr: welcome 20:02 -!- docl [~docl@50-201-161-43-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:03 <@kanzure> lord_hackr: what brings you here? 20:03 < SphericalMouse> so kanzure, i don't really want to reinvent the wheel here, am I retreading over well tread ground with this stuff? fluid robots seem really obvious so I was suprised not to see one available 20:04 <@kanzure> SphericalMouse: carl crott was working on a design for one, but i think he gave up for some reason. he had a working prototype and a rails server for some reason. 20:04 <@kanzure> https://github.com/delinquentme/lh001 20:05 < SphericalMouse> rails server? 20:05 <@kanzure> rails is a framework for the ruby programming language to respond to http requests 20:05 <@kanzure> so he was aiming to control it over http 20:05 <@kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY5IY5CZ1es 20:05 <@kanzure> .title 20:05 < yoleaux> LH001 - YouTube 20:05 <@kanzure> well that's a dumb title.. carl should fix that. 20:06 < nmz787> i pinged him about it 20:07 <@kanzure> SphericalMouse: i think there's a lot more work to do to get everytihng to a usable stage, the concept is important and needs to happen.. it's not incredibly difficult, which is a good thing. 20:07 <@kanzure> *everything 20:08 < SphericalMouse> yeah, thats my thinking. its only really going to be useful if there is a way to add lots of modules. move fluid around 1 96 well plate will be a bit underwhelming 20:09 <@kanzure> did you ever see POGO? 20:09 <@kanzure> it was this $20k open source arrayer 20:09 <@kanzure> http://bioinformatics.org/pogo/ 20:09 <@kanzure> the big downside was how much they spent on it (wtf) and the gas environment 20:10 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: my take on it is, if there's so much to be done, why not invest it in a machine that can do that all, but on the micro level 20:10 <@kanzure> because micro is much more work 20:10 < SphericalMouse> indeed 20:10 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: the point of curved channels is a good and important one, one I hadn't completely thought about 20:11 < nmz787> but micro is ultimately cheaper and more powerful 20:11 < SphericalMouse> the bonding techniques is important too 20:11 < nmz787> more parallelizable 20:11 < SphericalMouse> thats an assertion, its not clearly true. 20:11 < SphericalMouse> you have to look at the total system 20:12 <@kanzure> nmz787: max hodak was telling me hte other day that geneart doesn't even use dna synthesizers for their dna production.. they just use a fleet of tecans. 20:12 <@kanzure> SphericalMouse: btw, jonathan cline also put out a perl/CPAN module for controlling tecan liquid handlers. 20:12 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: have you seen these videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-R0_nXpc7I&list=UUGCzKZ2WM4eyrPCnLO9UnFw&index=7 20:12 <@kanzure> http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/JCLINE/Robotics-0.23/lib/Robotics/Tecan/Genesis.pm 20:13 <@kanzure> http://search.cpan.org/~jcline/Robotics-0.23/lib/Robotics/Tecan.pm 20:13 < SphericalMouse> o2 plasma bond sucks, its really flaky and sensitive to process conditions 20:14 < SphericalMouse> pdms to pdms bond is way stronger 20:14 < abetusk> evening 20:14 < nmz787> most of the engineering reports show plasma to be pretty strong 20:14 < nmz787> at least that's how i remember it 20:15 < nmz787> kanzure: what was the pdf manager you told me could take a dir of pdfs and organize it? 20:15 <@kanzure> zotero 20:15 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: what about su-8? 20:15 < SphericalMouse> what about it? 20:16 <@kanzure> http://zotero.org/ 20:16 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: you keep mentioning pdms 20:17 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: i was just reading that su-8 is more resistant to wider range of solvents than PDMS 20:17 < nmz787> have you ever used it directly 20:17 < SphericalMouse> su-8 isn't going to allow you make valves 20:17 < SphericalMouse> i've used it to make molds for PDMS 20:18 < nmz787> if you're using electrowetting 20:19 < nmz787> ? 20:19 < SphericalMouse> needs to be hydrophobic for electrowetting 20:20 < SphericalMouse> but just because it has a wide range to solvents, doesn't mean it has a wide range to your solvents 20:23 < nmz787> so what are your plans for biocurious? 20:23 < nmz787> is there anything you specifically have in mind? 20:23 < nmz787> macro/micro etc 20:24 < SphericalMouse> theoretically, build a liquid handling robot with a series of modules allowing for different functions, more macro 20:24 < SphericalMouse> make it so other people can build it and share protocols 20:24 < SphericalMouse> we'll see how it goes. realistically it will be a lot of work, and I'll see what resources we have 20:25 <@kanzure> SphericalMouse: do you know about transcriptic.com? 20:25 < SphericalMouse> there is a good reason these things go for 100k+ 20:25 <@kanzure> their goal is to let customers write small scripts that they upload to their machines, and through a common programming language control each piece of equipment. 20:26 <@kanzure> it would be really great if there is an open source alternative to that which happens to be compatible.. like "you could run it on transcriptic's machines.. or this open source machine." 20:26 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@gateway/tor-sasl/barriers] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27 <@kanzure> i guess that's sort of a "down the road" issue :) 20:27 < SphericalMouse> sure. at some level we'd just make a machine that accepts move and action commands. if it works, then we can work on a nice control system 20:28 < SphericalMouse> yeah, I don't want to claim we're going to have some mega system tomorrow. 20:29 <@kanzure> for whatever reason, carl spent >$3k on his prototype. iirc. 20:30 <@kanzure> i think it should be cheaper than that to get some steppers to move liquids around though. 20:30 < SphericalMouse> probably, depends on tooling costs and false starts 20:31 <@kanzure> what, biocurious doesn't have a machine shop yet? 20:31 <@kanzure> i guess it didn't the last time i visited 20:31 < SphericalMouse> we have a meeting on sunday, i'm a bit worried that I might toss this idea out and shut down other directions 20:31 < SphericalMouse> biocurious is a bit sparse 20:31 <@kanzure> were you a part of the bioprinter group? 20:31 < SphericalMouse> no 20:31 <@kanzure> from what i recall, the bioprinter group was really hard to get going 20:31 <@kanzure> you should go ask someone about how that happened 20:31 <@kanzure> i'm just an outside observer; i wasn't able to be involved because they hate the internet (or they hate me, but that's impossible right) 20:32 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: well it sounds like you've got the expertise :) 20:32 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: i wonder if space will be a constraint at bioc 20:32 <@kanzure> what, no 19 foot microarrayer?? 20:32 <@kanzure> so disappointing 20:33 < SphericalMouse> makeslide extrusions are only 1.8 meters max anyways 20:33 <@kanzure> how much stock do they have? 20:33 <@kanzure> makerbeam sorta died out once the kickstarter-funded stock vanished 20:34 <@kanzure> guess it doesn't matter, people who care can just make more. 20:34 < SphericalMouse> inventables has it perpetually in stock 20:34 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: i saw the same V profile on a machine at harbor freight yesterday 20:35 <@kanzure> it was probably t-slot or 80/20 or something 20:35 -!- curtiss [~curtis@sol.whatbox.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:36 < nmz787> hah, curtiss was on a seedbox 20:36 <@kanzure> SphericalMouse: btw i hope you will consider idling in here regularly. many of us just leave this open throughout the day. 20:36 < nmz787> so makerslide doesn't have stuff to buy? 20:36 <@kanzure> and we complain at each other when things break 20:36 -!- curtiss [~curtis@sol.whatbox.ca] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:36 < SphericalMouse> no, its sold through inventables 20:37 < SphericalMouse> possibly, i can drop by in the evening, but unlikely at work 20:37 < nmz787> what is inventables? 20:37 < SphericalMouse> https://www.inventables.com/technologies/makerslide 20:37 < nmz787> ofund it 20:37 < nmz787> i mean, can anyone negotiate them adding their stuff to their manufacturing line? 20:37 < nmz787> or do they just fulfill orders like amazon 20:38 < SphericalMouse> i think they have a stock and will make more stuff as it gets low 20:38 <@kanzure> sounds like they might operate like shapeways 20:38 <@kanzure> oh 20:38 <@kanzure> then no not like shapeways 20:38 < SphericalMouse> as I understand you have to make extrusion in large batches to keep costs down 20:39 < SphericalMouse> if you needed to buy a kilometer of extrusion, I'm sure you could arrange something 20:40 < SphericalMouse> do you think you have time or expertise to contribute to the robot? 20:42 <@kanzure> i'm reasonably good at software, so yes. 20:42 < nmz787> fenn do you think the laser cutter could be fabbed with the makerslide stuff? 20:43 < SphericalMouse> at some point I guess we'll need to come up with a framework to control separate pieces of equipment and keep track of commands 20:43 < nmz787> if so then we've already got some parts listed as far as motors and such 20:44 < SphericalMouse> especially if we do cell culture we'd need a way to pause and extract samples without restarting 20:44 < nmz787> we could definitely help figure out a good protocol to use/settle on 20:44 < nmz787> by pause do you mean give up control to other experiments? 20:44 < nmz787> like processes running on one machine 20:45 < SphericalMouse> yes 20:45 < SphericalMouse> something like that 20:46 < nmz787> you might take advantage of celery 20:46 < nmz787> i dunno though 20:47 < SphericalMouse> but lets not get ahead of ourselves. just think of what you'd like to see happen, or have it do. 20:48 < nmz787> well i need to look at DNA synth reagent costs for macro synthesis 20:48 < nmz787> but i guess that's exotic chem-wise 20:48 < nmz787> so maybe not biocurious approved 20:49 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@gateway/tor-sasl/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:49 < SphericalMouse> you may want to see if there are alternate paths rather than straight up fresh synthesis 20:49 <@kanzure> sure, libraries 20:49 < nmz787> there are some pdms friendly recipes 20:50 <@kanzure> but it's sorta hard to store 8000 tubes 20:50 < SphericalMouse> there is no point in going cheap if it increases error beyond what you can tolerate 20:50 < nmz787> but they still need dry ingredients and environment 20:50 < SphericalMouse> anyways, time for bed, gotta go 20:50 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: ask patrik about why error but cheap synhtesis could be good 20:50 < nmz787> basically it is the entropy for metabolic engineering 20:50 < nmz787> *could be* 20:51 < SphericalMouse> you can always add in error 20:51 < nmz787> as long as you have a rapid/in-vitro protein expression and functional analysis as well 20:51 < nmz787> SphericalMouse: right but you were complaining about the error, instead of taking advantage of it 20:52 < SphericalMouse> anyways, later guys 20:54 <@kanzure> SphericalMouse: thanks for dropping in, give us an update about the meeting too... 20:56 -!- SphericalMouse [62cfd610@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.207.214.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:17 <@kanzure> a traffic jam is eliminated by lowering the speed limit? 21:23 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@gateway/tor-sasl/barriers] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@gateway/tor-sasl/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:25 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@gateway/tor-sasl/barriers] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32 <@kanzure> https://github.com/kliment/Splotbot 21:32 <@kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crzPESP-tyA 21:32 <@kanzure> .title 21:32 < yoleaux> Splotbot - YouTube 21:37 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-11.flip.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:42 -!- Guest14461 [~archie@ip72-201-163-66.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:43 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@gateway/tor-sasl/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:45 -!- Guest14461 is now known as archbox_ 21:45 -!- archbox_ [~archie@ip72-201-163-66.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:45 -!- archbox_ [~archie@unaffiliated/archbox] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:51 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:51 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@gateway/tor-sasl/barriers] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52 < abetusk> gotta say, the level of discussion has really improved the last couple of months 21:55 < archbox_> thanks 21:55 < archbox_> that's when i joined 21:58 <@kanzure> when did this happen? 21:58 <@kanzure> http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/17/elsevier-mendeley-education/ 21:58 <@kanzure> elsevier is buying mendeley? 21:58 < archbox_> rip 21:59 -!- indigenous [~indigenou@pdpc/supporter/student/indigenous] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:00 < abetusk> hey, kanzure, are you working on the pdfparanoia to continue where swartz left off? 22:01 <@kanzure> pdfparanoia didn't exist until late january 2013, so it was impossible for aaronsw to have ever worked on it. 22:02 < abetusk> I didn't say he did 22:03 <@kanzure> then no.. i'm doing it for myself. 22:04 <@kanzure> abetusk: you might find these things useful, https://groups.google.com/group/science-liberation-front 22:11 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@gateway/tor-sasl/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:15 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:21 -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@c-69-181-140-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:24 < abetusk> the whole thing makes me sick 22:25 <@kanzure> fine, don't read papers then.. 22:26 < abetusk> what? 22:26 <@kanzure> "the whole thing makes me sick" i assume this was in reply to my message about science liberation front.. 22:26 < abetusk> of course now. It was how Aaron Swartz was treated 22:26 < abetusk> *not 22:27 <@kanzure> ah. 22:27 <@kanzure> yes that was wrong. 22:33 -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@c-69-181-140-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:40 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:01 -!- u-metacognition [~metacogni@99-7-58-96.lightspeed.davlca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 23:19 -!- ManaLord [~manalord@c-318fe455.37-0081-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:32 < nmz787> what opensource 3d printer projects exist? 23:33 < bkero> Many 23:34 < nmz787> do you know about what's good out there? 23:35 < nmz787> i've only used a makerbot 23:35 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@gateway/tor-sasl/barriers] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@gateway/tor-sasl/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:43 <@kanzure> nmz787: reprap. 23:44 <@kanzure> by far, reprap has the most documentation. 23:44 <@kanzure> also there's #reprap 23:47 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:53 -!- klafka_ [~klafka@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:58 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] --- Log closed Thu Feb 14 00:00:00 2013