--- Log opened Tue Mar 19 00:00:32 2013
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00:36 < strangewarp> hmm. watching multiple authority figures talk about how much they like TVTropes is filling me with despair
00:36 < strangewarp> I'm like "its tone is unbearable" and they're like "better than YOUR tone"
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01:43 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.cell.com/cell-reports/retrieve/pii/S2211124713000752
01:43 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Induced%20Pluripotent%20Stem%20Cell-Derived%20Neural%20Cells%20Survive%20and%20Mature%20in%20the%20Nonhuman%20Primate%20Brain.pdf
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01:45 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0967064513000489
01:45 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/The%20discovery%20of%20a%20natural%20whale%20fall%20in%20the%20Antarctic%20deep%20sea.pdf
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02:02 < archels> http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/what-happens-when-half-the-world-stops-making-babies/573/
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02:31 < archels> paperbot: http://iopscience.iop.org/0967-3334/24/2/369/pdf/0967-3334_24_2_369.pdf
02:32 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/d02af9bd10b1b23ef7a5d7c530e8eeb6.pdf
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09:05 < klafka> at talk by peter norvig now
09:05 < xmj> klafka: do you know if it's livestreamed somewhere?
09:06 < klafka> i don't think so - they will probably post it after the fact
09:06 < xmj> Damn
09:06 < klafka> it's about 'learning python'
09:06 < xmj> klafka: I read the pydata.org headlines
09:06 < klafka> cool!
09:07 < klafka> it's pretty rad so far
09:07 < klafka> i went to the workshops yesterday
09:07 < xmj> After seeing how PyCon had all the streams at timvideos.us I figured I'd ask if the PyData folks had something similar
09:08 < klafka> last time merakana hostedi t
09:09 < xmj> Ah well, I'll wait till they upload the videos. I definitely want to see Norvig, and the one about Time Series Analysis in Python :)
09:09 < klafka> yes!
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10:02 < kanzure> botnet detection on ad networks http://www.spider.io/blog/2013/03/chameleon-botnet/
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11:08 < klafka> ooooh
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11:48 < EnLilaSko> paperbot: http://www.frontiersin.org/Neuropsychiatric_Imaging_and_Stimulation/10.3389/fpsyt.2012.00110/abstract
11:48 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Neurobiological%20Effects%20of%20Transcranial%20Direct%20Current%20Stimulation%3A%20A%20Review.pdf
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11:53 < silver1> what the fuck is biohacking ?? You read minds of people ??? like there memories or something or make hardware  to control humans by remotes ??
11:54 < ThomasEgi> silver1, step 1: don't panic.
11:55  * xmj gives silver1 a towel.
11:55 < chris_99> lol
11:55 < ThomasEgi> step3: noone cares about your memories or wants to remote controll you. at least i don't.
11:56 < xmj> I wear a tinfoil hat to actively keep your memories OUT.
11:56 < silver1> @ThomasEgi thanks for towel.
11:56 < xmj> It's not there to protect me, it's all for YOUR benefit :}
11:56 < ThomasEgi> silver1, the towle was not mine
11:56 < xmj> silver1: you're welcome.
11:56 < silver1> @ThomasEgi but it was your idea
11:57 < silver1> xmj thanks buddy
11:57 < lichen> think the confusion here is the word biohacking
11:57 < lichen> because people confuse hacking and cracking
11:57 < kanzure> biohacking isn't any different from regular biology. although there tends to be less insistence on institutionalization or institutional involvement.
11:57 < lichen> cracking is the bad one ;)
11:57 < xmj> speaking of which
11:57 < lichen> hacking is good
11:57 < silver1> lichen I  dont confuse them. Just want to know what is  biohacking ??
11:58 < kanzure> it's just regular biology.
11:58 < xmj> given that you folks are into DIY and Nootropics and stuff
11:58 < xmj> do you folks have experiences with polyphasic sleeping?
11:58 < kanzure> mostly with a focused on techniques, lab protocols, lab equipment, reagents, materials, etc.
11:58 < lichen> garage biology to a degree
11:58 < kanzure> garages aren't necessary.
11:59 < silver1> you scared the living hell out of me ... just a regular biology like learning to perform operation on oneself ....lol
11:59 < kanzure> i know people who have tried polyphasic sleep, but i don't know anyone who found it useful enough to still be using it.
11:59 < lichen> polyphasic sleep tends to be difficult to work into most schedules
11:59 < lichen> unless youre self-employed or unemployed
12:00 < silver1> now what is polyphasic sleep ?
12:00 < kanzure> your employment status doesn't greatly impact whether or not polyphasic sleep is useful or not. unemployed individuals have not stuck with it either.
12:01 < lichen> i would think scheduling issues would be the main reason to drop it
12:01 < lichen> as having to nap every few hours can get in the way
12:02 < kanzure> nope. scheduling reasons are secondary if it doesn't work for you.
12:02 < lichen> sure
12:02 < silver1> I tool biology in first semester. Prof cut toad into 2 halves, I vomited
12:02 < kanzure> silver1: why are you here
12:03 < lichen> might be somebody from 'stop the cyborgs' :p
12:03 < xmj> Does it mean I have to give up my exocortex? :(
12:03 < silver1> I thought you were making hardware to rule the world by controlling  the whole human race :)
12:04 < lichen> wat
12:04 < lichen> think youve been reading too much conspiracy theory garbage
12:04 < kanzure> xmj: just saw your pm, sorry for the delay.
12:04 < kanzure> silver1: how did you get here?
12:05 < silver1> same  way as you did
12:05 < silver1> What if some conspiracies were true ???
12:06 < lichen> then who was phone !?
12:06 < lichen> honestly, you cant take every conspiracy theory seriously
12:06 < kanzure> silver1: please leave.
12:06 < lichen> some might have shreds of truth
12:06 < lichen> but this is not the channel for that
12:07 < silver1> kanzure: okay
12:07 < kanzure> silver1: thank you for being civil about this.
12:07 < silver1> kanzure: byeeeeeeeee
12:07 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ
12:07 < lichen> be extra careful with your mail for a while kanzure :p
12:07 < silver1> kanzure: what is command to leave the channel ??
12:08 < xmj> silver1: try /part
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12:09 < silver1> xmj: thanks buddy, it worked !!!
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12:09 < xmj> I suggest you try again
12:10 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+m] by kanzure
12:10 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-m] by kanzure
12:10 <@kanzure> let's try that again..
12:10 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+m] by kanzure
12:10 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-m] by kanzure
12:10 <@kanzure> well that sucks.
12:10 < xmj> +q, wasn't it
12:11 < silver1>  I am looking for some material to study about DNA
12:11 < silver1> keeping jokes apart, any nice books, tutorials or something else will do
12:12 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq
12:12 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/books
12:14 < silver1> kanzure: thanks, sorry for bad jokes earlier.
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12:27 < salamandyr> what are human augmenting technologies you wish were more readily available?
12:29 < ThomasEgi> salamandyr, the mute button.
12:29 < salamandyr> heh
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12:41 < nmz787> kanzure: i think joe kaufman's email is down
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12:46 < chris_99> is anyone here into rocketry out of curiousity specifically hybrids
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12:53 < chris_99> or know anything pertaining to HTPB
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13:14 < eudoxia> so the pirate bay has expanded into torrents of physical objects
13:14 < eudoxia> 'physibles'
13:15 < eudoxia> http://thepiratebay.se/blog/203
13:15 <@kanzure> is it a usable format, or just stl?
13:15 < salamandyr> http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/24/pirate-bay-physibles-category-3d-printers/
13:15 < eudoxia> just content-agnostic torrents
13:16 <@kanzure> that's sort of useless
13:16 <@kanzure> you could already put torrents up
13:16 < eudoxia> >January 24, 2012
13:16 < eudoxia> what the fug
13:16 < nmz787> ya old news
13:16 <@kanzure> this is bullshit
13:16 <@kanzure> you guys are liars
13:16 < eudoxia> i need some kind of extension
13:17 < eudoxia> that highlights anything vaguely formatted like an address
13:17 < eudoxia> if it's over one year old
13:17 < eudoxia> address, i meant date
13:17 <@kanzure> i still don't see the point
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13:17 <@kanzure> it's just a category on their site? big deal.
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13:43 <@kanzure> http://blog.freenode.net/2013/03/bye-bye-pdpc/
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13:53 <@kanzure> ah nevermind.
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14:38 < nmz787> kanzure: if i want to exit a python function early do i use break (like in an if statement)
14:39 <@kanzure> you can return whenever you want
14:39 <@kanzure> if you're in a for or while loop and want to skip past itself, you can use break.
14:39 <@kanzure> if you want to skip the remainder of the current loop (for just the current cycle) you can use continue.
14:40 < nmz787> return nothing
14:40 < nmz787> or return 0
14:40 <@kanzure> up to you
14:40 < nmz787> cool
14:44 < salamandyr> is there any ist of existing/startup companies doing stuff in the augmented human / h+ space?
14:44 <@kanzure> depends on what you're willing to count. why do you ask?
14:44 < salamandyr> looking for a job :D
14:46 <@kanzure> what are you skilled in?
14:46 < salamandyr> i'm an EEG oriented cognitive neuroscientist, with tons of experience in neurofeedback (clinical and research) and skills in assessing attention, etc.
14:47 < ParahSailin> always tough as a "wet" labber
14:47 <@kanzure> well, eeg has limited utility too
14:47 < salamandyr> depends
14:47 < ParahSailin> always dependent on a patron
14:47 <@kanzure> i suppose there's always emotiv and whoever is selling to clinics.
14:47 < salamandyr> you can do inverse solution stuff and get real-time sources now
14:48 < salamandyr> as accurate as fMRI for localization
14:48 < salamandyr> and much faster time resolution, of course
14:48 <@kanzure> how many bytes of throughput can someone control with eeg these days?
14:48 < salamandyr> ah BCI ?
14:48 < salamandyr> i'm oriented in the opposite direction
14:48 <@kanzure> all the commercial and research devices i've seen can only do something like 2 bits
14:48 < salamandyr> changing the brain
14:48 < salamandyr> not changing the environment
14:48 < klafka> there are people using eegs as device interfaces for drones and stuff
14:48 < klafka> too
14:48 < salamandyr> PocketN has 14 bit
14:49 < salamandyr> in 2 channels
14:49 < salamandyr> iirc
14:49 <@kanzure> eeg is for measuring the brain, not changing the brain. if you wanted change you would use sound, current, or something else.
14:49 < salamandyr> no.. neurofeedback changes the brain
14:49 <@kanzure> to some extent
14:49 < salamandyr> yes
14:49 <@kanzure> anyway, 14 bits of input, or 14 bits of human controlled input
14:49 < salamandyr> again.. i'm not that BCI orietned
14:49 < salamandyr> i think it's a limited field
14:49 < salamandyr> for now
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14:50 < salamandyr> but measuring / monitoring and changing using EEG feedback are all more powerful/active/proimsing
14:50 <@kanzure> neurofeedback isn't going to isolate specific microcircuits, really
14:50 < salamandyr> no it wont
14:50 <@kanzure> except in very special cases
14:50 < klafka> just not familiar really w/ any startups that are doing neurofeedback
14:50 < klafka> except for scams
14:50 <@kanzure> very very special cases. like maybe you have neurons in a petri dish and you are looking at them. maybe.
14:50 < salamandyr> there arent many as far as i can tell
14:50 <@kanzure> there are some that claim to be doing neurofeedback, but they are all pre-revenue.
14:50 < salamandyr> i've been in the neurofeedback field for about 15 years
14:50 < klafka> ah
14:50 < salamandyr> i know the 5 or so companies doing nfb
14:51 < salamandyr> at a decent level
14:51 < salamandyr> but gaming companies are now getting brain focused
14:51 < salamandyr> so i'm guessing there are neurogaming/neurofeedback hybrids about to emergy
14:51 < salamandyr> emerge
14:51 < klafka> aah
14:51 < salamandyr> (and destroy the nfb market)
14:51 <@kanzure> emotiv claims to be game focused, but i developed for their hardware and i can tell you it was shit
14:51 < salamandyr> yeah emoitiv is rather shite
14:51 < klafka> emotiv is apparently crap
14:51 < salamandyr> and mindwave/neurscky is much much worse
14:51 < salamandyr> the best simple EEG is PocketNeurbics
14:51 <@kanzure> maybe you should focus on doing other things
14:51 < salamandyr> 2 chanenl
14:52 < klafka> ah i see
14:52 <@kanzure> like not eeg
14:52 < salamandyr> heh
14:52 <@kanzure> maybe something that is making money, even.
14:52 < salamandyr> i've spent the past few years getting a PhD working on attetnion/EEG :)
14:52 <@kanzure> or something that works.
14:52 <@kanzure> ah i see.
14:52 < salamandyr> yeah. i think it works :)
14:52 <@kanzure> is there a paper i can read?
14:52 < salamandyr> and i'm one of the few global experts in attention/nfb from both clinical and research side
14:53 < salamandyr> http://www.isnr.org/resources/comprehensive-bibliography.cfm
14:53 < salamandyr> plus
14:53 < salamandyr> http://www.sharpbrains.com/blog/2012/10/05/biofeedback-now-a-level-1-best-support-intervention-for-attention-hyperactivity-behaviors/
14:53 <@kanzure> the first item here is from 2002. is this the most recent?
14:53 < klafka> no
14:53 < salamandyr> no there are cent
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14:53 < salamandyr> Martin Arns' meta data paper is among the recent
14:54 < salamandyr> meta review rather
14:54 < salamandyr> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19715181
14:54 <@kanzure> why are these separate pages, why not just put the whole list on one page
14:54 < salamandyr> there are a few since then too - but this is a good wide view
14:54 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://eeg.sagepub.com/content/40/3/180.short
14:54 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/ac03b9acab835f37708c415c43a8ba51.txt
14:54 <@kanzure> fucking sage
14:55 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.sydney-neurofeedback.com.au/downloads/2009%20Arns%20-%20Is%20Neurofeedback%20efficacious%20in%20ADHD.pdf
14:55 < klafka> :(
14:55 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/3bdb7aab10c90ff193445bc6e6a420bc.pdf
14:55 < salamandyr> arns has full tex on his site
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14:56 < salamandyr> iirc - varoius papers on brainclinics.nl that he has written
14:57 < salamandyr> decent overview here http://www.brainclinics.com/eeg-biofeedback
14:57 <@kanzure> i only see inattention and hyperactivity here. that doesn't smell like the full definition of adhd to me?
14:57 < salamandyr> that's pretty close :)
14:57 < salamandyr> hyperactivity is 2ndary to the core response inhibition issues
14:58 <@kanzure> but this doesn't explain things like the hyperfocusing subtrait
14:59 <@kanzure> i suppose it doesn't matter; within the context of impulsivity, yes i'm sure neurofeedback and affect that.
14:59 < salamandyr> that is just PFC engagement, often in response to high stimulus
14:59 < salamandyr> e.g why adhd ppl are conflict-oriented and risk-taking orietned - lights up the PFC
14:59 < salamandyr> why adhd kids train their parents to yell at them :)
15:00 <@kanzure> man i hate cognitive psycholog
15:00 <@kanzure> +y
15:00 < salamandyr> why?
15:02 <@kanzure> while there's a lot of evidence of the prefrontal cortex playing a role in adhd and other spectrum disorders, there are also other impacted systems other than just the prefrontal cortex that are involved when people yell at those brains. there's much more neuroanatomy going on than that.
15:02 < salamandyr> sure
15:02 < salamandyr> in fact neurofeedback mostly focuses on sensorimotor strip based training
15:03 < salamandyr> anyway.. seems like you dont like anythig i do :)
15:03 < salamandyr> guess i'll spend time elswhere
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15:04 <@kanzure> because obviously i mean that much to you?
15:04 <@kanzure> wow, what an asshole. just because i don't like cognitive psychology doesn't mean you should ignore everyone else in here.
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15:05 <@kanzure> .. or leave, etc.
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15:45 < ParahSailin> lol kanzure
15:46 < ParahSailin> i dont even see what you said that was so offensive to his field
15:46 < klafka> lol
15:46 < klafka> 'do something that works'
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15:49 < ParahSailin> oh "man i hate cognitive psycholog"
15:49 < kanzure> well it's true. it always seems broken. i was reading the paper, but i guess i didn't tell him that and maybe he was upset.
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15:58 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i am getting a lot of 404s on your .git fetcher. is this bad?
15:58 < kanzure> not all of the requests for git objects are 404ing, however.
15:58 < jrayhawk> They might be using object packs, in which case you're screwed without the manifest.
15:59 < kanzure> where would the manifest be located?
15:59 < kanzure> also, what sort of other signs would there be that they are using object packs?
16:01 < kanzure> git fsck is telling me that a lot of objects are "corrupted" (they seem to be blank).
16:01 < kanzure> oh i see. the 404s are being turned into blank files for whatever reason. that's probably my fault.
16:01 < jrayhawk> man git-update-server-info
16:02 < jrayhawk> the lack of pack manifests is why git-fetch refuses to work in the first place
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16:03 < jrayhawk> (though it should really be willing to do the naive traversal attempt anyway)
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18:17 < kanzure> jrayhawk: huh, so i want the .git/objects/pack/pack-whatever.pack files?
18:19 < jrayhawk> And the idx files.
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18:54 < kanzure> rmcl: welcome back?
18:55 < rmcl> kanzure: hello. thanks! it's been awhile
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