--- Log opened Wed Mar 27 00:00:39 2013
00:13 -!- InvadersMustDie [~xx@unaffiliated/xx] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:29 < kanzure> InvadersMustDie: hello
00:31 < cerillio> Btw bryan have you worked on skdb lately?
00:31 < kanzure> no, but i had brownies review it
00:31 < kanzure> i am thinking about separating out some parts into smaller individual components
00:33 < cerillio> Sounds like a plan. Was talking to a german startup about it. They are building an instructables but more construction blue plan focused
00:33 < cerillio> So i might be able to redirect their efforts into skdb
00:34 < kanzure> okay.
00:35 < InvadersMustDie> hey hey kanzure
00:35 < InvadersMustDie> sup ya'll
00:36 < cerillio> Hi invader not much on my way to work
00:39 < InvadersMustDie> coolC:
00:39 < InvadersMustDie> watdya work
00:40 < cerillio> Webdev
00:40 < cerillio> For a financial information service
00:42 < cerillio> And you?
00:45 -!- cerillio [~androirc@tmo-107-187.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )]
00:50 < InvadersMustDie> aww they left Q_Q
00:50 < InvadersMustDie> sorry im busy a lil
00:52 -!- NilsHitze [~NilsHitze@80.190.141.50] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:52 < NilsHitze> re
00:52 < NilsHitze> <- cerillio
00:52 < NilsHitze> but from a real pc ;)
01:05 < kanzure> 00:58 <@ggreer> wow. ralph merkle is a night owl
01:05 < kanzure> 00:58 <@ggreer> still sending emails and it's 1AM
01:05 < kanzure> curious where ralph is emailing these days. cryonet?
01:10 -!- mako [~mako@103-9-42-31.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:57 < kanzure> NilsHitze: yes there are european versions of biocurious
01:58 < kanzure> NilsHitze: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/groups
02:00 < NilsHitze> thx
02:00 -!- strangewarp [~C@c-67-176-51-26.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
02:01 -!- strangewarp [~C@c-67-176-51-26.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:01 < NilsHitze> wanted to link eugen, but he isn't on G+
02:01 < kanzure> where are you located?
02:02 < kanzure> ah munich
02:03 < NilsHitze> jupp
02:03 < NilsHitze> A new one is in the making here
02:03 < NilsHitze> Eugen and friends working on it
02:03 < kanzure> if you wait a few moments he will login here
02:03 < kanzure> i have activated the bat signal
02:05 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:06 < NilsHitze> lol
02:06 < NilsHitze> nice one
02:06 < NilsHitze> bad signal
02:06 < kanzure> something like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRyD55qzDg8
02:06  * kanzure sleeps
02:07 < NilsHitze> lol
02:08 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
02:14 -!- eleitl [~eugen@beryllium.ativel.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:14 < eleitl> howdy ho
02:15 < eleitl> I was told somebody from Munich was in da house
02:15 < NilsHitze> hi eugen
02:16 < eleitl> ohai Nils
02:16 < NilsHitze> yes - i think bryan doesn't know we're already connected via Jabber ;)
02:16 < NilsHitze> i was asked on G+ about BioCurious in Europe
02:16 < eleitl> Yeah, you already know everything what is going on here.
02:16 < NilsHitze> https://plus.google.com/113734287104367465430/posts/aVa6utC9Ld6
02:16 < eleitl> We do cryo, but we'll be talking about SENS on 4th Apris
02:17 < eleitl> Mate Ravasz is doing some algae work in our lab, but he's only now starting
02:17 < NilsHitze> how far is the lab in martinsried?
02:17 < NilsHitze> and is there a website for it already?
02:17 < NilsHitze> so i can spread the word
02:18 < eleitl> moment, phone
02:19 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
02:20 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:22 < eleitl> the lab is operational, but we're still looking for further funding
02:23 < eleitl> there is no website, deliberately so.
02:23 < eleitl> we want to keep a low profile. tz already found out there's a cryo lab in Munich, and we do not want them to know where it is.
02:24 < NilsHitze> ^^
02:24 < NilsHitze> why not?
02:25 < eleitl> because they're yellow press, and will make a huge deal out of it, and our incubator will kick us out
02:25 < eleitl> the incubator only wants good press
02:26 < eleitl> do you know how to cash in US cheques with a german bank?
02:26 < eleitl> perhaps paypal would be better
02:28 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
02:29 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:34 < NilsHitze> paypal has it own interesting problems
02:34 < NilsHitze> if they know for what the funding is they might block the account
02:34 < NilsHitze> us cheques in german banks, sorry no
02:36 < eleitl> if you transfer 3 kUSD, how much % would Paypal take?
02:37 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
02:39 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:44 -!- mako [~mako@103-9-42-31.flip.co.nz] has quit [Quit: sleep's shitty terms]
02:47 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
02:47 < NilsHitze> gotta check out
02:48 < NilsHitze> 1.9% + 0.35 Cent
02:48 < eleitl> Thanks.
02:48 < NilsHitze> 2290 Euro
02:48 < NilsHitze> roughly
02:49 < NilsHitze> but you will need to account for Currency Exchange
02:49 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:49 < NilsHitze> i think they change the rate on a daily base but i am not 100% sure
02:49 < eleitl> I'll ask my two banks about cashing in US checks
02:52 < NilsHitze> do that and let me know details about the lab
02:53 < eleitl> sure. We're doing fractioning research at the moment. Cracking during vitrification.
02:54 < eleitl> it's pretty hard to get cheap Pt100 sensors which go to -200 C
02:55 < NilsHitze> how much do they cost?
02:56 < eleitl> ~40-70 EUR @ Conrad
02:56 < eleitl> the thermologger is only 190 EUR
02:56 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
02:57 < eleitl> most Pt100 only do -50, tops -100
02:59 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:59 < eleitl> I think we'll calibrate -196 C and 0 C, that way we'll get a bit more precision
02:59 < eleitl> but we're only looking at cooling rate, anyway
03:06 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
03:08 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:16 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
03:17 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:25 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
03:27 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:30 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:35 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
03:36 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:44 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
03:46 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:54 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
03:56 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:04 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
04:05 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:13 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
04:15 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:22 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
04:25 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:33 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
04:34 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:40 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:40 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has quit [Changing host]
04:40 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:43 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
04:44 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:51 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
04:53 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:01 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
05:02 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:10 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
05:10 -!- NilsHitze [~NilsHitze@80.190.141.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
05:12 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:13 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
05:19 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
05:21 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:29 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
05:31 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:39 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
05:40 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:47 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
05:49 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
05:50 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:56 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:57 <@fenn> tinkercad lasted all of a year and a half. can't say i'm surprised; this is why i use open source software
05:58 <@fenn> it is interesting that they're looking for FPGA programmers
05:58 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
06:00 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:01 < archels> htop. why wasn't I made aware of this
06:02 <@fenn> because, um, steve jobs
06:04 <@fenn> currently in screen i'm using irssi, alpine, calcurse, htop, upower, and mocp (and bash)
06:04 <@fenn> mocp and htop are pretty good, the rest are meh
06:05 <@fenn> oh, and nano apparently
06:08 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
06:10 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:16 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:17 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
06:19 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:23 -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@c-69-181-139-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:24 -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@c-69-181-139-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:26 < archels> calcurse looks kinda cute, but not very customisable
06:26 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:26 <@fenn> if you use it make sure to turn on auto save
06:27 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
06:29 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:31 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
06:32 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:37 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:42 -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@c-69-181-139-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:49 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-54-119.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:02 -!- nsh is now known as France
07:11 -!- France is now known as nsh
07:28 -!- klafka [~klafka@static-69-95-227-216.roc.choiceone.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:51 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-54-119.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left ##hplusroadmap ["leaving"]
08:26 < ParahSailin> wow htop
08:29 -!- InvadersMustDie [~xx@unaffiliated/xx] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
08:29 < ParahSailin> ok, htop is kinda ridiculous with 48 cores
08:35 < klafka> hahaha yeah
08:35 < klafka> is that 4x12 ?
08:35 < klafka> opteron?
08:42 < ParahSailin> yeah looks like opteron
08:55 < eleitl> try Xeon Phi
09:11 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-54-119.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:13 < eudoxia> kanzure: i don't suppose you have a copy of tangiblebit.pdf (http://smari.tangiblebit.com/talks/2009/11media/tangiblebit.pdf)
09:13 -!- xx [~xx@unaffiliated/xx] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:18 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-54-119.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
09:21 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-134-40-69.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:29 < eudoxia> the links in smari's site are so broken omg
09:29 < eudoxia> i keep replacing .is with .com
09:31 < eleitl> smari sounds icelandic
09:34 < eudoxia> >Smári McCarthy is an Icelandic/Irish innovator and information activist.
09:34 < eudoxia> yep
09:35 < eudoxia> >He is also an active member of the digital fabrication movement, having operated a fab lab in Vestmannaeyjar, Iceland,[14] and worked with Fab Labs elsewhere, including Jalalabad, Afghanistan
09:35 < eleitl> the support from 1984.is is Mörður Ingólfsson
09:35 < eleitl> this is funny, because Mörður
09:36 < eudoxia> >09:35 < eleitl> the support from 1984.is is Mörður Ingólfsson
09:36 < eudoxia> kanz fix gnusha's encoding
09:37 < eudoxia> we'll never become transhuman if we can't handle fucking unicode
09:38 < eudoxia> 😸
09:38 < eleitl> latest report puts peak fossil on 2020
09:38 < eudoxia> i heard
09:38 < eleitl> chances are, we're fucked
09:39 < eleitl> the latest graph on http://cassandralegacy.blogspot.it/2013/02/the-twilight-of-petroleum.html is also scary
09:39 < eudoxia> I don't expect OSE to change anything since they can't get their shit together
09:43 < ParahSailin> can't get their shit together?
09:43 < eudoxia> literally, every single file is spread in a million separate web services
09:44 < ParahSailin> expect them to change what?
09:44 < eudoxia> the inevitable collapse of industrial civilization because we're out of oil etc etc.
09:46 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-134-40-69.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: leaving]
09:47 < eleitl> might be not inevitable, but we're certainly looking at massive suckage
09:47 < ParahSailin> ah, well i'd be worried more about OSE's actual problems rather than how they manage digital content
09:49 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-134-40-69.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:49 < eleitl> might be not inevitable, but we're certainly looking at massive suckage
09:49 < eudoxia> ParahSailin: i don't know much about their problems other than what is visible on the wiki, but i want to know, what are their actual problems?
09:49 < eudoxia> they seem pretty okay-funded
09:50 < ParahSailin> yeah, they're pretty good at spending money
09:51 < eleitl> OSE being?
09:51 < eudoxia> eleitl: i guess we'll have to deal with it for a few decades
09:51 < eudoxia> Open Source Ecology
09:51 < eleitl> oic
09:51 < ParahSailin> they're ostensibly trying to prove a profitable business model, yet they're running off donations
09:52 < eleitl> my worry is that almost nobody is getting the fact that there is a huge problem coming our way
09:52 < eudoxia> ParahSailing: on that note, what happened to that project to hire devs to write a new open source CAD program?
09:52 < ParahSailin> i think thats what kanzure is doing
09:52 < eudoxia> i know he worked on his own cad kernel but i don't think that's still going on
09:53 < eudoxia> what do you think OSE should do to prove they can be profitable? start selling LifeTracs?
09:53 < ParahSailin> i dont think the market for lifetracs is gonna be great, they should sell cheese, meat, or some other crop
09:55 < eleitl> do they make energy accounting for their designs?
09:56 < eleitl> it would be interesting to see how small sustainable industry/agriculture unit can be made
09:56 < eudoxia> the machines are designed to work with these plug-and-play PowerCube things so I guess that's a yes
09:57 < eudoxia> http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/PowerCube
09:57 < eleitl> have you seen full powercycle accounting, including embedded energy?
09:58 -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@209.237.22.146] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:58 < eudoxia> no
09:58 < eleitl> it all looks oil-powered
09:59 < eleitl> apart from biodiesel from oil crops you're still on the fossil teat
09:59 < eudoxia> they are planning to build a solar-thermal
09:59 < eudoxia> but that's not even in the proto stage
10:00 < eleitl> they should look into PV and microhydro
10:00 -!- xx is now known as InvadersMustDie
10:00 < ParahSailin> for a tractor?
10:00 < eudoxia> i think they built the latter if i understand what you mean
10:00 < eleitl> solar thermal is mostly restricted to arid zones
10:01 < ParahSailin> very high capital requirements relative to solar pv
10:01 < eleitl> solar PV is below USD/Wp
10:02 < ParahSailin> inverters at this point are greater cost than the cells
10:02 < eleitl> you can make things work on DC
10:02 < eleitl> this is a farm, they mostly need motors
10:03 < eleitl> hydrogen is another option
10:04 < ParahSailin> dc motors are super expensive to try to run farm equipment off
10:04 < eudoxia> there don't seem to be any rivers near Factor e Farm (909 SW Willow Road Maysville, Missouri)
10:04 < eudoxia> oh scratch that
10:04 < eudoxia> it's a lake but it's something
10:05 < eudoxia> the Maysville Reservoir
10:05 < eudoxia> brb lunch
10:06  * eleitl opens a beer
10:09 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:12 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:15 < ParahSailin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergius_process interesting, though the usual conspiracy theories
10:16 <@fenn> let's just make an open source thorium reactor and eb done with it
10:16 <@fenn> ffs it's not that hard
10:16 < eleitl> you can use hydrogen and CO2, latter can be from air
10:16 < eleitl> fenn, show me a working thorium cycle breeder
10:17 < ParahSailin> oak ridge had one in the 50s
10:17 < ParahSailin> sorry, 60s
10:17 < eleitl> no, they didn't. No fuel was bred with the thorium cycle. Look it up.
10:17 < eudoxia> apparently the chinese will build one in 30 years
10:17 < eleitl> MSR would be great as an industrial heat source, if they worked.
10:18 <@fenn> i'm just sick of all the whining about CO2 and peak oil when nobody has even considered the options we already have
10:18 < eleitl> CO2 is not a problem
10:18 < eleitl> in the sense that we can do anything about it
10:18 < eleitl> we can't
10:18 < ParahSailin> the main obstacle to nuclear is political
10:18 < eleitl> the main obstacle is that it doesn't work
10:18 <@fenn> nuclear power works..
10:19 <@fenn> am i missing something here?
10:19 < eleitl> economically, it doesn't
10:19 < ParahSailin> economically, compared to fossil?
10:19 <@fenn> because of the retarded cost of government oversight
10:19 < ParahSailin> which you are concerned about running out of?
10:19 < eleitl> fossil doesn't work, either. the party is over.
10:19 < ParahSailin> so, there would be some point in time when nuclear would work?
10:20 <@fenn> what do you mean "works"
10:20 < eudoxia> uranium isn't a liquid that can be handled at room temperature and pressure and utilized in an inexpensive, DIY machine
10:20 < eleitl> look at the last graph on http://cassandralegacy.blogspot.it/2013/02/the-twilight-of-petroleum.html
10:20 < eleitl> if nuclear is to work it needs to breed
10:21 < eleitl> working thorium breeders have not been demonstrated
10:21 < ParahSailin> i think there will always be a need for hydrocarbon heat engines, at least using hydrocarbons as intermediate transmission and storage
10:21 < eleitl> you can make hydrocarbons fine if you have energy
10:21 < eudoxia> oil fractionation columns are much cheaper and simpler than uranium gas centrifuges
10:21 < eudoxia> there will never be something quite like oil
10:21 < eleitl> yeah, we burned through most of it in only a century
10:21 <@fenn> what about ... synthetic oil
10:21 < ParahSailin> you get nuclear working, and you can make your oil out of coal
10:22 < eleitl> of course synthetic oil, but you need a source of energy for that
10:22 < eudoxia> ^
10:22 < ParahSailin> or co2
10:22 < eleitl> peak fossil 2020, coal included.
10:22 <@fenn> i mean i don't think we should be burning oil in cars or water heaters, but it's good for some things like airplanes and plastics
10:22 < eudoxia> oil is the only thing that literally flows from the ground and can be exploited economically
10:22 < eleitl> do not assume cheap coal will be available
10:22 < ParahSailin> coal will be available until fusion is invented
10:23 < eleitl> not as a source of energy
10:23 < eleitl> if you have energy, you can make organics. you don't need coal.
10:23 < eudoxia> but what if the mining machinery needs oil to run?
10:23 < eleitl> then, we're fucked!
10:23 < ParahSailin> fischer tropsch
10:23 <@fenn> you guys seem far too ready to jump to the "we're fucked" conclusion
10:24 < superkuh> I don't think the breeding part of the MSR is the hard bit. Thorium for the MSRE *was* bread  in other fission reactors.
10:24 < eleitl> it only took me a few decades
10:24 < eleitl> the numbers were just getting worse and worse
10:24 < eleitl> this is going to hurt, unfortunately. can't be avoided, at this point.
10:24 < superkuh> Online breeding may be very hard.
10:25 < eleitl> they primed the MSR from the uranium cycle
10:25 < eleitl> they never bred fuel, nor processed fuel. all toy scale.
10:25 < superkuh> Right. But the U-233 was bred from Thorium in other reactors.
10:25 < ParahSailin> so breed it in other reactors
10:25 < eleitl> using uranium cycle neutrons
10:25 <@fenn> eleitl: also your link seems to imply that oil production will be increasing until at least 2035
10:26 < eleitl> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-L_lp0BzWamM/UQ4eCC_r6RI/AAAAAAAAHdg/bGYr9h_cUfw/s1600/sunset+of+petroleum_html_781e6bbe.png <-- net energy
10:26 < ParahSailin> the physics works out, there just needs to be investment in the engineering
10:26 < eleitl> there are some assumptions there, but I think these are quite sound
10:27 < eleitl> peak coal might not decay as quickly, though
10:27 < eleitl> no idea, haven't seen the data
10:27 < ParahSailin> you vastly underestimate the amount of coal the states and china have
10:27 < eleitl> the amount doesn't matter, the net energy of it does
10:28 < eudoxia> all mechanized agriculture stops, hundreds of millions die, etc.
10:28 < jrayhawk> uhhh, no, agriculture will be fine
10:28 < eleitl> http://www.bmwi.de/BMWi/Redaktion/PDF/E/energiestatistiken-energiegewinnung-energieverbrauch,property=pdf,bereich=bmwi2012,sprache=de,rwb=true.pdf
10:28 <@fenn> iirc that was supposed to happen in 1990
10:28 < eleitl> look at the imported anthracite
10:28 < eleitl> "Anteil der Nettoimporte"
10:28 < jrayhawk> cuba already stepped off an oil cliff with the downfall of the soviet union and there was no mass starvation
10:29 < jrayhawk> organic gardens are actually very high-yield
10:29 < eleitl> yes, but US has no clue how to do biodynamic agriculture
10:29 <@fenn> i'm pretty impressed with cuba's agricultural science
10:29 < jrayhawk> the science is improving and we have one hell of a lot more time to adapt.
10:29 < eleitl> a lot of small farmers are in debt
10:29  * eudoxia mildly convinced sigh of relief
10:29 <@fenn> they do all kinds of stuff with inoculation and creative fermentation media that nobody in the US would ever even consider
10:30 < ParahSailin> heh, powder river basin sub-butuminous coal is <$10/ton
10:30 < eleitl> germans looked into algae for food production during the war
10:31 < eleitl> apropos germans, did you look at the 11.7% renewable?
10:31 < ParahSailin> cuba had relatively high arable capacity, it just meant switching sugar cane to domestic food
10:31 < eleitl> it's a fucking joke, since 7.1 is biomass, and half of that is not even domestic
10:31 < ParahSailin> i wouldnt expect the us to weather an oil cliff so easily
10:31 < eleitl> sugar cane is c1 crop, so high efficiency
10:32 < eleitl> c4, sorry
10:32 < eudoxia> i wonder if the end of oil imports contributed to the arduous march
10:32 < jrayhawk> Allan Savory and Joel Salatin and whatnot are becoming cult heros in the burgeoning real food movement
10:32 < eleitl> one of the reasons bioethanol works with sugar cane
10:33 < eleitl> I did consider learning algaeculture actually
10:33 < eleitl> it takes a couple years to get a green thumb
10:34 <@fenn> are you talking about growing algae as stuff to burn?
10:34 <@fenn> talk about bad thermodynamics
10:34 < eleitl> no, stuff to eat
10:34 < eudoxia> heh
10:34 < ParahSailin> paging hartmut michel
10:35 <@fenn> okay. yeah people could do with more algae in their diet
10:35 < nmz787> i've got a back and front yard not doing much
10:35 < nmz787> i'd like a way to suck up carbon from the air
10:35 < eleitl> stuff to burn is iffy, since you need controlled eutrophication, and strains which can persists against wild type
10:35 < eleitl> I heat with wood, so I can get flue gas for CO2 enrichment
10:36 < eleitl> or methane, cleaner actually
10:36 < nmz787> CO2 enrichment?
10:36 < eleitl> problem is temperature control, because damn cyanobacteria overheat so easily
10:36 < nmz787> I want to sequester that shit
10:36 < nmz787> ahh
10:36 < nmz787> you mean to pump into the tank
10:36 < eleitl> higher CO2 concentration increases photosynthesis efficiency
10:36 < eleitl> yes
10:36 < eleitl> NOx scrubbing, too
10:36 < eleitl> you can use urine for nitrate and phosphate
10:37 < nmz787> what about feces?
10:37 <@fenn> just dont tell your customers
10:37 < eudoxia> hahaha
10:37 < ParahSailin> NOx is nitrate
10:37 < eleitl> there are many nitrogen oxides, and you can scrub these with algae
10:37 < chris_99> NOx isn't really nitrous oxide is it
10:37 < nmz787> the right way to do it is have the algae release liquid fuel right?
10:38 < ParahSailin> N2O isnt usually considered NOx
10:38 < eleitl> there's N2O NO NO2, N2O4, N2O3 etc.
10:38 < eleitl> NO2 is an anion, so it's NO2-
10:38 < ParahSailin> x is usually 1 or 2, and including dimers thereof
10:38 < chris_99> mm, N2O is nitrous oxide
10:38 < chris_99> er NO2
10:38 < chris_99> isn't it
10:38 < eleitl> N2O is nitrous
10:38 < eleitl> NO2 will kill you
10:38 < chris_99> oh yeah, NO2 would be nitrous dioxide?
10:39 < eleitl> NOx are also great as rocket fuel
10:39 <@fenn> nmz787: algae for fuel is a big joke and will never be economically feasible, even with fancy genetic engineering tricks
10:39 < eleitl> better than nitric acid
10:39 < chris_99> mm i'm making a hybrid rocket using it at the mo' eleitl
10:39 < eleitl> genetic engineering tricks work against you, if wild type kicks your ass
10:39 < eleitl> be very careful, chris_99
10:39 < ParahSailin> the fastest growing type will always win
10:39 < eleitl> asymmetric dimethylhydrazine?
10:40 < chris_99> mm, it's only a small one though eleitl
10:40 < eleitl> hypergolic fuels FTW!
10:40 < chris_99> i was trying to source HTPB for a fuel, but it's kind of difficult to get here, so i may order from China
10:41 < eleitl> asphalt + N2O?
10:41 < eudoxia> be carefully you don't get arrested for conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction
10:41 < eudoxia> careful*
10:41 < chris_99> heh
10:41 -!- klafka [~klafka@static-69-95-227-216.roc.choiceone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:41 < chris_99> it's only really a type of resin though, it's not actually explosive or anything
10:42 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:43 < nmz787> fenn: why would you say that? a thing that takes air and turns it into fuel isn't without value
10:44 < nmz787> fenn: ease of use and maintenance and setting up is a factor in long term utility
10:45 < ParahSailin> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201200218/pdf
10:45 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/b14f88282a48bbe4ff893b30820633a0.txt
10:45 < eleitl> you can make methane from water electrolysis hydrogen and CO2
10:46 < eleitl> Sabatier reaction
10:46 < eleitl> you can make higher hydrocarbons, too
10:46 < eleitl> C1 feedstock for industrial chemistry
10:46 < ParahSailin> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/anie.201200218/asset/2516_ftp.pdf?v=1&t=hessai5t&s=49ea29387096e9f14e2d7a785f4742814a95e265
10:46 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/f4ddf8f1941ef88ddc59a5fc305f3e2b.pdf
10:46 < ParahSailin> ^why not biofuels
10:46 < eleitl> http://pac.iupac.org/publications/pac/pdf/1986/pdf/5806x0825.pdf
10:47 < eleitl> biofuels are tapped out, see HANPP
10:47 < ParahSailin> no, read that as "this is why not biofuels"
10:47 < eleitl> PV has much higher efficiency, anyway
10:47 -!- radivis [~quassel@p5B2E699C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:47 < eleitl> besides, people need to eat
10:47 < eleitl> you're competing for crps
10:47 < eleitl> crops
10:48 < ParahSailin> yes, that's pretty much it
10:48 < nmz787> eleitl: you've mentioned HANPP before, but didn't mention taking adavantage of lands not considered in it currently
10:48 < ParahSailin> do they have electrochemical reduction of CO2 yet?
10:48 < nmz787> there are plenty of non-crop lands with sunlight
10:49 < eleitl> if you can eutrophicate saline lakes etc, and can survive against wild type, why not
10:49 < eleitl> Salton Sea would be a good test bed
10:49 < nmz787> actually
10:49 < eleitl> highly alcaline lakes are also good, since only few algae can survive there
10:49 < nmz787> not much chance of screwing it up more than it already is
10:50 < jrayhawk> thankfully fossil fuel decline will demolish grain agriculture, which will do wonders for healthcare costs
10:50 < eleitl> spirulina takes pH 9..11
10:50 < eudoxia> yay no more mcdonalds
10:50 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:50 < eleitl> foodlots will probably disappear
10:51 < eleitl> or, you feed them with Soylent Green(tm)
10:51 < jrayhawk> mcdonalds will probably switch to soy buns or something equally tragic
10:51 < ParahSailin> don't be too gleeful about mass starvation
10:51 < jrayhawk> we already went over that
10:51 <@fenn> what do you mean switch
10:52 < eleitl> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorella#History
10:52 < jrayhawk> haha i guess i haven't checked
10:52 < ParahSailin> grain agriculture demolished?
10:52 <@fenn> it's a gradual transition already halfway completed
10:52 < eudoxia> today i had one of those soy burgers for lunch
10:52 < eudoxia> i already hate peak oil :<
10:52 < eudoxia> it didn't even come with fries
10:53 < eleitl> unfermented soy is really not good for people
10:54 < jrayhawk> xenoestrogens build character
10:54 < eleitl> manboobs FTW
10:54 < eleitl> but so does beer
10:55 < nmz787> jrayhawk: i'm still waiting on that gliadin or legume knockout paper
10:55 < ParahSailin> tofu's probably pretty low in those
10:55 < eleitl> try miso or soy sauce
10:55 < jrayhawk> i was unable to find it and now i am sad
10:55 < eleitl> tofu is not good
10:55 <@fenn> tempeh is the only reasonable soy product
10:55 < nmz787> jrayhawk: i'm not convinced cutting down rain forest to eat paleo is a good meme, but it came to mind
10:55 < jrayhawk> did you watch that allan savory thing
10:55 <@fenn> (aside from miso/soy sauce but that's not really food)
10:56 < eleitl> never tried tempeh
10:56 < nmz787> jrayhawk: hmm, no
10:56 < eudoxia> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Tempe_Burger.jpg
10:56 < eudoxia> 9/10 would eat
10:56 < ParahSailin> how much phytoestrogen is left when you dissolve all the proteins, then congeal them with divalent salts?
10:56 < jrayhawk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI
10:57 < ParahSailin> phytoestrogen preferentially partitions to the solution phase
10:57 < kanzure> .title
10:57 < yoleaux> Allan Savory: How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change - YouTube
10:57 < jrayhawk> and pretty much anything from joel salatin
10:58 < eleitl> somebody give me 22:20 min of quality time
10:58 < ParahSailin> joel salatin runs off a lot of grain
10:58 <@fenn> jrayhawk: i watched that and still have no idea how it's supposed to work, what makes the grass grow when there's zero topsoil?
10:58 < kanzure> "Licenses for the top-end ESXi run $1000 - $3500 list per socket."
10:58 < kanzure> the virtualization market is weird
10:59 <@fenn> does he add material to the ground, or just run a bunch of cows on it over and over
10:59 < eleitl> oVirt
10:59 < eleitl> the only ESXi we use is free, or Essentials
10:59 < jrayhawk> Ruminants are distributive bacterial reservoirs and distributors, and compact the soil enough to retain water.
11:00 < jrayhawk> ParahSailin: Yeah, the pasture croppers are more purists about sustainability, but joel is a far more skilled at advocacy
11:00 < jrayhawk> they're doing the same basic things, though
11:01 < jrayhawk> specifically cyclic mob stocking
11:02 < ParahSailin> i've never seen hard numbers on the yields of that
11:02 < eleitl> yields of what?
11:02 < jrayhawk> calories per acre per year
11:02 < eleitl> algae are the big winners for that, no contest
11:03 < eleitl> nothing even comes close
11:03 < jrayhawk> and presumably other nutrition
11:03 < eleitl> for animals, rabbits and chickens are rather efficient
11:04 < ParahSailin> sheep are probably the most efficient
11:05 < eleitl> sheep are also very good at dying
11:05 < eleitl> try goats
11:05 < ParahSailin> goats are too picky
11:06 < jrayhawk> chickens are good at dying, too. i just lost one the other day to a reproductive disaster.
11:06 < ParahSailin> sheep and cows are the ones you can put out on grass and do very little
11:06 < jrayhawk> it was a heritage breed, though, so it was probably more stressed by the coop life than the others.
11:06 < jrayhawk> beh
11:06 < ParahSailin> well, sheep are completely retarded, but it's just a matter of not designing the fencing so that they'll easily kill themselves
11:07 -!- cerillio [~androirc@tmo-107-187.customers.d1-online.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:07 -!- cerillio [~androirc@tmo-107-187.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:07 -!- cerillio [~androirc@tmo-107-187.customers.d1-online.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:07 < ParahSailin> cattle reproduce too slowly to recover quickly from droughts
11:08 -!- cerillio [~androirc@tmo-107-187.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:10 < kanzure> who is mitch at diybio pdx?
11:10 < kanzure> also, here's thomas landrain doing a talk about a biohacking lab or something http://vimeo.com/61800446
11:10 < kanzure> .title
11:10 < yoleaux> LabEasy DIYBio Salon - Thomas Landrain on Vimeo
11:11 < eleitl> the meeting in France?
11:12 < kanzure> dunno. the europeans really enjoy keeping me out of the loop.
11:12  * eleitl is innocent
11:12 < kanzure> nah, i mean they create new private groups all the time and invite nobody
11:12 < nmz787> goats will eat some pretty gnarly stuff
11:12 < eleitl> that is very retarded, agreed
11:12 < kanzure> i had to fake a swedish name
11:12 < eudoxia> hahahahahha
11:13 < eudoxia> "Anders Sandberg"
11:13 < ParahSailin> goats will eat the weird stuff, but never what you want them to eat, like the fast growing grass
11:13 < eleitl> goats are unproblematic
11:13 < nmz787> kanzure: really?
11:13 < nmz787> kanzure: they didn't let you in with bryan?
11:14 < kanzure> it's not that they don't "let me in".. it's that they don't proactively include me when they send out secret emails/groups/etc.
11:14 < eleitl> these are young people, some of them French
11:14 < ParahSailin> citation: https://plus.google.com/photos/108592484668460515128/albums/5838517469299267185?authkey=CITGk5Cfu5DdrQE
11:14 < eleitl> don't be too harsh on them, I doubt they do it on purpose
11:14 < eudoxia> maybe they think you are too busy to be bothered kanz
11:14 < nmz787> eleitl: are you saying something about french people in general?
11:15 < nmz787> eudoxia: they clearly don't know him
11:15 < eleitl> the French people don't travel widely in english-speaking communities
11:15 < eudoxia> clearly
11:15 < eleitl> they tend to keep to the Frankosphere
11:15 < nmz787> Frankenstein
11:15 < eleitl> Frank-N-Furter
11:16 < eleitl> Oups, time to vacate le premises.
11:16 < eleitl> See you l8rs.
11:16 < nmz787> peas
11:17 < ParahSailin> goats, simply, will fail to thrive if you expect them to only eat grass
11:17 < nmz787> ah
11:18 < ParahSailin> they are complementary to sheep
11:23 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1003389
11:23 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Molecular%20Networks%20of%20Human%20Muscle%20Adaptation%20to%20Exercise%20and%20Age.pdf
11:23 < ParahSailin> solve two problems at once http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/03/15/an-odd-thought-thorium-reactors-would-make-tantalum-and-rare-earths-cheaper/
11:27 -!- nsh is now known as nsh__
11:27 -!- nsh__ is now known as nsh_
11:27 -!- nsh_ is now known as nsh__
11:28 -!- nsh__ is now known as nsh
11:28 -!- nsh is now known as skdjfsdkjafhlskd
11:29 -!- skdjfsdkjafhlskd is now known as nsh___
11:29 -!- nsh___ is now known as nsh
11:30 -!- nsh is now known as nsh___
11:30 -!- nsh___ is now known as nsh
11:30 < kanzure> "A few bucks in equipment can produce perfectly smooth parts through vapor deposition."
11:30 < kanzure> http://blog.reprap.org/2013/02/vapor-treating-abs-rp-parts.html
11:32 < ParahSailin> does anyone have experience with shapeoko?
11:33 < kanzure> yes, randallagordon does
11:33 < kanzure> or skorket if he ever shows up again
11:34 < randallagordon> indeed, what do you need to know, ParahSailin?
11:34 < ParahSailin> could you make nylon gears with one?
11:34 < randallagordon> although, not as much as I'd like despite having had it for nearly a year at this point...apartment living hasn't allowed me to use it much
11:36 < randallagordon> dig around in the 'oko forums and there are a few people toying around with making gears
11:36 < randallagordon> let me see if I can pin down the username of the person I'm thinking of in particular
11:44 < ParahSailin> interesting http://theenergycollective.com/barrybrook/66539/nuclear-ammonia-sustainable-nuclear-renaissance-s-killer-app
11:45 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Quit: the neuronal action potential is an electrical manipulation of reversible abrupt phase changes in the lipid bilayer]
11:46 < ParahSailin> doesnt seem likely that ammonia would be easier to make than a hydrocarbon
11:49 < ParahSailin> otoh, conversion of ammonia to fixed carbon can be done by nitrifiers
11:54 < randallagordon> ParahSailin: jhllt67 is the person I'm thinking of...doesn't look like he's posted much beyond this project though: http://www.shapeoko.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=566
11:56 < randallagordon> Also, not nylon...
11:58 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:00 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:08 -!- klafka [~klafka@rrcs-184-74-103-28.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:08 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-134-40-69.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:09 < ParahSailin> paperbot: http://eprints.qut.edu.au/54702/3/54702.pdf
12:09 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/c983410f7dd648a984dbf3e58e19bc94.pdf
12:15 < ParahSailin> paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es803531g
12:15 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Direct%20Biological%20Conversion%20of%20Electrical%20Current%20into%20Methane%20by%20Electromethanogenesis.pdf
12:17 -!- lichen_ [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:20 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
12:27 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:47 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
12:49 -!- klafka [~klafka@rrcs-184-74-103-28.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:24 < nmz787> Omission gluten free beer is not that tasty
13:27 -!- lichen_ is now known as lichen
14:05 -!- abumirqaan [uid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zunsmrssyhzvgumt] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe]
14:19 < kanzure> i wonder who has the most surgical metal in their body.
14:20 -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@209.237.22.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:24 -!- _sol_ [~Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:32 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:36 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:38 -!- abumirqaan [uid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-suqdscgsfnusxkqv] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:47 -!- radivis [~quassel@p5B2E699C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:00 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:01 -!- _Sol_ [~Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:21 < kanzure> ISO 10303 is an impenetrable darkness of acronyms http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/msg/54a5e335082f933b
15:21 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:23 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-128-112.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:23 < eudoxia> sacred mother of god what the christ
15:30 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-128-112.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: quit]
15:33 < kanzure> eudoxia: it's because storing source code and schematics to a fighter jet is not easy.
15:43 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:56 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:04 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:25 -!- abumirqaan [uid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-suqdscgsfnusxkqv] has quit []
16:36 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:47 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:55 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
16:57 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:58 < kanzure> http://shapesmith.net/2013/03/06/ProgressUpdate.html
16:59 < kanzure> this is that guy that did some opencascade-on-a-server-in-erlang and then some webgl things in client browsers
16:59 < kanzure> "The second goal can only be achieved by running the solid modelling in the browser. Independant of goal 1, this could potentially be done by porting a C/C++ library to JS using EMScripten. But this conflicts with the first goal. Is there a Javascript solid modelling library? The closest that might fits the bill I'm aware of is Plasm.js, a JS port of Plasm. This doesn't appear support boolean operations at present."
16:59 < kanzure> "s a result I've been working on a Javascript discrete solid modeller (not continuous BRep). Discrete as in mesh-based, similar to a bitmap versus a vector image. This doesn't mean the definition of models will be mesh-based, but the result will be. This fits the goal of being a tool for 3D printing - which mainly requires STL export."
17:00 < kanzure> hmm. maybe implicitcad.hs can be llvmed->emscriptened->js. that might be worthwhile.
17:25 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
17:27 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:33 < juri_> neat.
17:45 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:52 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:54 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:01 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
18:15 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:38 < kanzure> 18:37 < brucem> I think we have evolved a fast flying breed of mosquito here by killing all of the slow ones.
18:38 < kanzure> i wonder about laser-immune/avoidant mosquitos.
18:41 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:42 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:01 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:03 < kanzure> yashgaroth: sup
19:03 < yashgaroth> yo
19:14 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Quit: leaving]
19:25 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:00 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20:25 -!- Juul [~Juul@50-0-83-116.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:36 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
20:42 < Swordsman> working on STM stuff right now
20:42 < Swordsman> also looking into lipid bilayers and cell membranes and things like that
20:42 < Swordsman> and graphene sheets
20:45 < Swordsman> I have some ideas in mind, but for each one, there're some details I'm wondering about
20:49 < Swordsman> for I'm not sure if I want to mess with bacteria or any other sorts of microbes, since I wouldn't want to accidentally create some environment potentially leading to bizarre genetic mutations
20:50 < kanzure> the bacteria in your gut are already mutating
20:50 < kanzure> get over it
20:50 < Swordsman> so I'm thinking, if I just put together some liposomes, is there a way that I might be able to embed structures in it's membrane that would allow it to anchor itself to another liposome?
20:51 < Swordsman> well, yeah, I get that
20:52 < Swordsman> I kinda figure that they're pretty good at doing it on their own, I just don't want to get in over my head while I'm dealing with unfamiliar territory
20:52 < yashgaroth> sure you can use transmembrane proteins for that
20:52 < Swordsman> yeah I was looking at those, I'm not sure what type would be good though
20:52 < Swordsman> I was looking through various proteins earlier this morning, and anthrax came up
20:52 < Juul>  Swordsman, maybe look at the mechanism S. Cerevisiae uses for flocculation
20:53 < yashgaroth> depends how complex-ly you want to arrange the liposomes
20:53 < Swordsman> and I thought, "...eh, maybe I should be careful about creating artificial linkage structures in cell membranes"
20:53 < yashgaroth> oh wait complexly is a real word
20:53 < yashgaroth> believe me you will not accidentally create a supervirus
20:54 < kanzure> especially not out of a bacteria
20:54 < yashgaroth> or superbacteria, whatevs
20:54 < Swordsman> well, I kinda wanna go with an entirely synthetic route anyway
20:55 < yashgaroth> well good luck with that, cuz proteins are super hard to synthesize, and transmembrane ones are practically impossible
20:56 < Swordsman> that is, I don't want to have to rely on anything too specialized
20:56 < Swordsman> if it's something common, that anybody could find, anywhere on the planet, that's fine
20:56 < Swordsman> I'm trying to come up with a formula that anyone can use, basically
20:57 < Swordsman> if it's cells from the human body, that works too
20:57 < Swordsman> I dunno
20:57 < kanzure> i have a feeling you know little about human cell cultures
20:57 < kanzure> sorry.
20:57 < yashgaroth> well I've no idea what you're trying to do so I can't go ahead and recommend a protein or anything
20:57 < Swordsman> I just figure it's pretty easy to make a monolayer and then form it into liposomes
20:57 < Swordsman> kanzure, you're correct
20:57 < Swordsman> I'm just using it as an example
20:57 < yashgaroth> not liposomes of a reliable size
20:58 < Swordsman> yeah, you could filter them though
20:58 < yashgaroth> not reeeeally
20:58 < kanzure> btw biology is all about specializing.
20:58 < Swordsman> why not?
20:59 < yashgaroth> well you're gonna shear them apart during filtration, or squish them together
20:59 < yashgaroth> you could use an ultracentrifuge but that's not exactly 'anyone on the planet' or whatever
20:59 < Swordsman> well, I'm not trying to look too deep into biology, I'm just thinking that I might be able to make use of the same methods it uses for a few steps in my process
21:00 < yashgaroth> the road to disappointment is paved with people who don't want to look too deep into biology
21:00 < Swordsman> specifically, I just need to be able to pack a payload into a bubble of a specific size, and then anchor a bunch of said bubbles together into a grid / mesh sort of structure
21:01 < Swordsman> well, I'm not saying I never will, I'm just saying that's not what I'm looking at right at this moment
21:01 < yashgaroth> well if you want an organized structure you won't have much luck; maybe a monolayer
21:01 < Swordsman> I am interested, but I already have enough difficulty not getting distracted by al the amazing things I could be learning about
21:03 < Swordsman> monolayers are where I started
21:03 < Swordsman> well, on this
21:04 < kanzure> < yashgaroth> the road to disappointment is paved with people who don't want to look too deep into biology
21:04 < kanzure> what an excitingly gruesome road
21:07 < yashgaroth> heh
21:08 < yashgaroth> so yeah you can get a monolayer, but then the liposomes might just decide to fuse together because liposomes
21:08 < Swordsman> right now i want to learn more about chemistry, so I can better anticipate mechanisms in biology later on
21:09 < Swordsman> yeahhhhh
21:09 < yashgaroth> chem's always good
21:09 < Swordsman> but cells, like those in the human body, don't do that, right?
21:10 < yashgaroth> no, because they have structural proteins inside and outside to prevent it
21:10 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:11 < Swordsman> I'm aware of... dynamin, clathrin...
21:11 < Swordsman> I just started looking into this though
21:12 < yashgaroth> well those have the opposite function, but you get the idea
21:12 < Swordsman> I've only seen things so far that induce bending and breakage of membranes rather than keeping them together
21:12 < Swordsman> is it more like the cytoskeleton, or what
21:12 < yashgaroth> pretty much
21:12 < Swordsman> so, the cytoskeleton then?
21:13 < yashgaroth> not entirely, but that's a big part of it
21:13 < Swordsman> I was kinda thinking I might have to work on that
21:13 < kanzure> 21 TB for $200/mo http://www.hetzner.de/hosting/produkte_rootserver/xs13
21:14 < Swordsman> could I just like, maybe, take some common organism, hollow out it's inside, and stuff things in there?
21:14 < yashgaroth> gonna go with 'not really' again
21:15 < Swordsman> for transport? it should be a rather quick reaction
21:15 < Swordsman> :/
21:16 < kanzure> biology works a lot better if you base your understanding on actual biology
21:16 < yashgaroth> wait how do you mean quick? if you just need them to form a monolayer and then do something, you might be okay, unless you need anything above 90% monomeric liposomes
21:16 < Swordsman> what if I just made a fullerene shell and suspended it in a noble gas or a vacuum and forgot about the liposomes
21:17 < Swordsman> I'm guessingthe whole reaction should be less than an hour, maybe less than 10 minutes
21:17 < kanzure> also be prepared for how tedious and failure-prone biology is.
21:17 < Swordsman> if I can just pack my stuff into these little bubbles and then twist them around in an intelligent way, that's all that needs to be done
21:17 < yashgaroth> don't forget expensive
21:18 < yashgaroth> well if you're making a circuit, it had better be super-redundant or you're just die of frustration
21:18 < kanzure> yashgaroth: my sis was asking me the other day about her "career options" in biology. i just laughed.
21:18 < yashgaroth> pffft
21:18 < brownies> isn't the career option... "biologist"
21:19 < yashgaroth> oh there's a hundred names that mean the same thing
21:19 < Swordsman> you over here, hold hands with this guy, now just keep hanging on while everything gets shifted around, and now grab on here, now let go of your first connection and now hold on while everything shifts again
21:19 < Swordsman> that needs to be done twice, maybe even just once
21:20 < yashgaroth> in 10-20 years when synthetic biology becomes more than 1% science and 99% speculation, maybe
21:20 < kanzure> yashgaroth: what would you say the standard failure rate is of, say, basic pcr for, uh, primer amplification?
21:21 < kanzure> my experience has been at least 10%
21:21 < yashgaroth> oh man well if you've got a highly-purified sample and top of the line reagents, maybe 90%
21:21 < kanzure> but i was doing some really weird things
21:21 < kanzure> 90% failure ?
21:21 < Swordsman> yashgaroth, it is super redundant
21:21 < yashgaroth> but since that never happens, like yeah about 10%
21:21 < Swordsman> I already thought about that
21:21 < yashgaroth> oh no, success, in absolutely ideal conditions
21:21 < kanzure> that was the opposite of what i ... what?
21:21 < Swordsman> I've been doing software design for like, almost 20 years now
21:22 < kanzure> anyway, alright
21:22 < kanzure> Swordsman: read these books http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/books
21:22 < Swordsman> I have the conceptual structure down, I just don't know chemistry well enough yet
21:22 < Swordsman> or bio
21:22 < yashgaroth> nah but when you've got a tissue sample or something, or a complex environmental sample...a few % success at best
21:22 < kanzure> Swordsman: biology is not like software at all. don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
21:22 < Swordsman> heh, yeah, I realize that :)
21:23 < Swordsman> software is nice and discrete
21:23 < kanzure> yashgaroth: maybe biologists hate computers because they assume computers are like biology.
21:23 < Swordsman> well defined
21:23 < yashgaroth> I think it's because they feel deep regret about going into biology instead of CS...but maybe that's just me
21:23 < kanzure> no, you are not a normal biologist
21:24 < Swordsman> whereas chem and bio are like... "herding cats" comes to mind, but it's seeming more to me now almost like, trying to convince bubbles to dance rather than just slamming around
21:24 < yashgaroth> there's also my old point about 'well I spent 15 years in grad school learning bio, why me a biologist learn computer'
21:25 < kanzure> Swordsman: stop with the analogies, you are hurting my brain feelers.
21:25 < Juul> analogies are like pan galactic gargle blasters, in that they hurt people's brain feelers
21:25 < kanzure> also, if you are adverse to reading the books available on http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/books then i suggest taking a class at your nearest community college, preferably one on laboratory techniques in biology.
21:26 < kanzure> since it's a lab class, you can just skip the labs you hate and not care about your score
21:27 < Swordsman> hmm, alright. thanks
21:27 < brownies> alternately, perhaps you could buy a bunch of cats and herd them around town for a while, let us know how that goes
21:28 < Swordsman> I said the metaphor came to mind, I also said that the bubble thing seemed more accurate
21:28 < Swordsman> I'm thinking more about chem at this stage of learning though
21:29 < kanzure> that's called biochemistry
21:29 < Swordsman> I spent a lot of time writing particle systems, so it's not too hard for me to picture
21:29 < kanzure> let me guess, particle fountains
21:30 < kanzure> and you sleep with the red book under your pillow
21:30 < Swordsman> a lot of the things I read about make me think "oh yeah, there was that one bug that one time that made that happen"
21:30 < Swordsman> I haven't read it, really
21:30 < Swordsman> I just grab the pieces I need for whatever I'm doing
21:31 < Swordsman> I've gotten pretty good at it over the years
21:32 < Swordsman> it works better with software though, since the feedback is both immediate and complete
21:32 < Swordsman> which is why I've avoided chem/bio until now
21:32 < kanzure> did you at least read the opengl spec
21:32 < Swordsman> I've read some of it, yeah
21:33 < kanzure> otherwise i was gnona kickban you as unhelpable
21:33 < Swordsman> like, 30% to 50%
21:33 < kanzure> or incurable
21:33 < Swordsman> I did read 100% of the original tcp/ip rfc though
21:33 < kanzure> 20 years without reading the full opengl spec. and just "grabbing the pieces". ugh. so, in biology, you really do need to read. you should be reading your specs anyway..
21:34 < Swordsman> I'm 26, I started when I was 7
21:34 < kanzure> so what. i'm 23.
21:34 < Swordsman> so
21:34 < brownies> amateurs
21:34 < brownies> i started in a past life
21:35 < Swordsman> yeah, I dunno. heh. I guess i just figure older people might have had more free time on their hands? I guess it's a dumb argument
21:35 < kanzure> yes, it's very dumb, because soon you get old and then the age thing stops being impressive
21:35 < kanzure> i'm lucky that everyone i know still thinks i'm <20
21:35 < kanzure> maybe one day they will figure out that i also age
21:36 < Swordsman> most of the guys I talk to are in their 30s and 40s, I just figure they know stuff because they've been around, is what I mean
21:36 < kanzure> ah. well in here we know things because that's our job.
21:36 < Swordsman> the guys I talk to and learn from in regards to code and learning etc.
21:36 < Swordsman> I mean
21:37 < Swordsman> anyway
21:37 < Swordsman> I work on a lot of stuff
21:38 < Swordsman> I try not to read any more than I need to on any one subject beyond what i what have to read in order to fully understand it because it cuts into the time I would be spending doing the same with some other topic
21:38 < Swordsman> but *anyway*
21:40 < Swordsman> so I was messing around with graphene sheets today, just to see if I'd get any results with scothc tape and pencil lead
21:41 < Swordsman> so I guess a chunk of pyrolytic graphite will levitate over a strong magnet, and you can direct it's movement with lasers and whatnot
21:42 -!- Lemminkainen [uid2346@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vormqrlagclgsawi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:42 < Lemminkainen> da
21:42 < kanzure> welcome
21:43 < Lemminkainen> how's nanoengineer.py coming along?
21:44 < Swordsman> I decided to find a really big pencil, cut off all the wood encasing it, polish it up, and then toss it on top of a magnet, since I figured that it might have enough inconsistences that it might still show a bit of diamagnetism
21:44 < kanzure> Lemminkainen: needs to be split up into separate packages
21:44 < kanzure> Lemminkainen: also more unit tests need to be written
21:45 < Swordsman> Er, inconsistencies. Anyway, it did seem to hover just a bit, just enough to be able to blow on it and have it spin around as if it were floating on a fluid surface
21:46 < kanzure> Lemminkainen: in the mean time you can be amused by https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer#readme i guess, unless you want to submit patches
21:47 < Swordsman> I only had 3 magnets that were fairly strong though, and they were attached to eachother on a surface
21:48 -!- baslisks [~baslisks@75-132-153-45.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:49 < Swordsman> what I found weird was that if I laid the graphite out in the middle magnet, and blew on it, it would be attracted to an alignment with the other two magnets on the side
21:50 < Swordsman> I'm guessing there's some obvious explanation I haven't realized yet
21:50 < Lemminkainen> Swordsman did you coat the graphite in pigs' blood first?
21:50 < Swordsman> like if I were to picture the magnetic field lines entirely, or something
21:50 < Lemminkainen> you need to add some iron to it
21:51 < Lemminkainen> kanzure I'll look into open issues with nanoengineer in about a month; I'm currently building some APIs and game engines that I want to finish first
21:51 < Swordsman> but if it's diamagnetic, and all them magnets have the same polarity, then I would've expected the graphite to be repelled from the outer two magnets rather than being attraced to them
21:51 < kanzure> carbon is not magnetic, unless you have ferrocarbon
21:51 < Swordsman> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphene#Electronic_properties
21:52 < Swordsman> it's actually a superconductor, in the right arrangment
21:52 < Lemminkainen> graphite != graphene
21:52 < Swordsman> I said I had a big chunk of graphite
21:53 < Swordsman> I also said it probably had impurities due to manufacturing and whatnot
21:53 < Lemminkainen> so you're hoping for those impurities to be graphene?
21:54 < Swordsman> which is what gives pyrolytic graphite it's properties
21:54 < Swordsman> yes. in fact, graphite in itself wouldn't have any magnetic properties
21:54 -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@c-69-181-138-228.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:55 < Swordsman> pyrolytic graphite is graphite which goes through a sries of heating and coling procsses which produces a small amount of graphene within the larger graphite structure
21:55 < Swordsman> and the pencil graphite I used earlier did in fact hover, if only slightly
21:55 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@50-0-206-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
21:55 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:56 < Swordsman> consider how many carbon atoms are in a block of graphite
21:58 < Swordsman> now, do you really think that there aren't going to be a few graphene sections in there, if it's just some graphite that just got lumped together in some pencil factory?
21:59 < Swordsman> assuming that it's almost entirely carbon, and the nobody cared to check that all of the carbon was linked up in a fully tetrahedral structure, you're going to have some graphene in there
21:59 < Swordsman> and sure enough, there is
22:00 < Swordsman> the way it behaved was really weird though, which is what I was asking about
22:01 < Lemminkainen> aight well if you're relying on unmeasurable and unpredictable impurities in a substance to give rise to a predictable motion, you silly
22:01 < Lemminkainen> best you can do is test with more samples and find the pattern
22:03 < Swordsman> yeah
22:03 < Swordsman> I spent about 5 hours eariler today messing with it in different ways
22:03 < Swordsman> I was really surprised that I got any response out of it at all
22:04 < Swordsman> like, even that tiny bit of graphene, is just enough to create a tiny gap between it and the surfrace beneath it
22:05 < Swordsman> I think the problem is that I have 3 magnets locked together (I'm just working with stuff I have lying around right now)
22:07 < Swordsman> I was just wondering if you guys might have an idea of why this was happening
22:07 < Lemminkainen> draw me a picture of your set up and I'll take a better whack at an explanation
22:09 < Swordsman> I was also thinking that maybe the individual sections of graphene were cancelling eachother out diamagnetically, and... somehow becoming ferromagnetic, in response to prolonged exposure to a steady magnetic field that it couldn't escape due to gravity, though the idea seems ridiculous to me
22:10 < Swordsman> [ .  '  . ]  <--- the arrangement of the magnets
22:10 < Swordsman> and then, the graphite stick is the same length, pretty much
22:12 < Swordsman> I place it over the middle magnet, and blow on it, and it spins around, eventually bouncing around and into an alignment where it covers all three magnets
22:13 < Swordsman> I also found that if I took shavings and put them on thin pieces of papers, and then passed them over the magnets, the shavings would react in this weird way
22:14 < Swordsman> only some of them would react, and it was kinda hard to see
22:15 < Swordsman> like, the fragments jumped together and then stopped reacted
22:15 < Swordsman> er, reacting
22:16 < Swordsman> like, if you passed a magnetic current through, they tried to find a way to not be magnetic
22:16 < Swordsman> I could just run the magnet underneath, and I'd get these lines, bbut then they just stopped after a while
22:18 < Swordsman> I suppose I'd have to record it in action to really see what's happening, my eyes aren't fast enough
22:20 < kanzure> http://pdf.multics.org/Propaganda/_werc/smak/prev//Plan_9_Movie_Poster.png
22:31 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@69-61-156-24.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
22:33 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@69-61-156-24.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:34 < kanzure> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5449328 "It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Technology management has given up on the idea that code can actually be read, so it's write-once. Reading Code is that ghetto where you put untalented people you want to fire, or young/new people you don't know what to do with yet. Otherwise, the idea that people can actually read code has been given up on. That, of course, generates a class of programmers who ...
22:34 < kanzure> ... never improve and write terrible (illegible) code. If your attitude is that reading code is a lost cause, you'll create a bunch of shitty, illegible code. People forget that outside of the corporate world, there actually is code that people (a) enjoy reading, and (b) write with the intention of making it comprehensible."
22:34 < kanzure> hah https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5451035 "All those "business people" should work for the companies talent, not the other way around."
22:34 < kanzure> i think github might work like that
22:36 < Lemminkainen> github has a nice structure, but I hate their engineers
22:36 < Lemminkainen> you meet them and all they ever fucking talk about is how flat their corporate structure is
22:37 < kanzure> i keep sending them bug reports, but i don't think they believe me
22:37 < kanzure> once they were like "OK, but send us a youtube video."
22:37 < kanzure> fuck that
22:37 < kanzure> was considering sending them a rickroll instead
22:43 < Swordsman> just send them a whole rick astley
22:44 < Swordsman> ...I wonder if anyone has actually done that, now that I think about it
22:45 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:19 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:20 < kanzure> haproxy has a very strange default config file packaged in the .deb
23:29 -!- BioGuy [~BioGuy@184-76-124-69.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:30 < kanzure> "agent aborted loading ilwifi" appears in my "waiting for /dev" bootup sequence. any ideas?
23:32 < kanzure> damn https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=827164
23:34 < BioGuy> Bah! gedit is horrible for loading logs
23:35 < kanzure> don't use gedit.
23:36 < kanzure> you can use head -n or tail -n if you want to read only a particular part of a log
23:37 < brownies> i think the packaged version of haproxy is rather old
23:40 < kanzure> debian has 1.4.8-1 in squeeze and wheezy i think
23:40 < kanzure> which seems to be from 2012-08-14
23:40 < BioGuy> kanzure thanks for showing me this log for irc logs https://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=irc+log&submit=search
23:41 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@pool-96-231-37-73.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:42 < BioGuy> The other day I thought paperbot was really cool, and want to tell other people about it - but wasn't sure if your concerned about word getting out about it and potentially having to deal with copyright problems.
23:42 < kanzure> how many people?
23:42 < kanzure> 100k, i can't deal with that sort of load on paperbot
23:43 < kanzure> or, rather, i wouldn't want to
23:44 < BioGuy> right now theres about 28 people in our DIYBio meetup and figured people would love it for getting stuff out from behind paywalls - but I don't want to tell too many people and then potentially screwing you over by accident.
23:45 < kanzure> paperbot is primarily for hplusroadmap/diybio/irc activity. you can tell them about it. it's here to help us.
23:45 < BioGuy> I would feel really bad if I got you into any copyright legal issues.
23:46 < kanzure> you can pay a small fee to pdx.edu since you're in the area and get access
23:47 < kanzure> also, if you're really paranoid, you can help improve https://github.com/kanzure/pdfparanoia which is used by paperbot to remove homing beacons inside pdfs
23:48 < BioGuy> Is it hosted at PSU?
23:49 < BioGuy> ...or just suggesting that for library access?
23:49 < kanzure> hey could you call me? 512-203-0507
23:54 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
--- Log closed Thu Mar 28 00:00:40 2013