--- Log opened Wed Apr 10 00:00:53 2013 00:25 -!- Shehrazad is now known as ElixirVitae 00:38 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:38 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has quit [Changing host] 00:38 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:07 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@pool-96-231-37-73.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:07 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@pool-96-231-37-73.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:13 -!- makoLime [~mako@103-9-42-32.flip.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:14 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@pool-96-231-37-73.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:17 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:23 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40 < eleitl> kanzure, will you be getting google fiber? 01:41 < kanzure> i am zone-compatible but it will depend on whether or not the apartment complex pays google i think 01:42 < eleitl> I would try organizing it 01:42 < eleitl> you can always run VPN over the pipe, so fuck the data kraken 01:42 < kanzure> not sure if i will still be in austin in 2014 01:42 < eleitl> oh? where are you going? 01:42 < kanzure> probably san francisco. it is inevitable. 01:42 < eleitl> sounds expensive 01:43 < kanzure> "it's too expensive not to go!" 01:43 * brownies pours kanzure another glass of kool-aid 01:43 < eleitl> as long as you stay away from the salt mines, why not 01:47 < eleitl> any idea what that North Korea propaganda is trying to distract from? 01:47 < kanzure> they are busy digging a tunnel to china 01:47 < eleitl> I keep looking, but only see Comex gold depositories being emptied, but that one might be a canard 02:29 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:06 -!- Swordsman [~kohii@50.46.238.42] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:22 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Quit: gfx driver updates] 03:24 -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@120.88.48.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:30 -!- kmo [~kmo@unaffiliated/kmo] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:43 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:48 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:09 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:38 -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@203.105.94.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:44 -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@203.105.94.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:46 -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@120.88.48.129] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:16 -!- kmo [~kmo@unaffiliated/kmo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:28 -!- FooQuuxman [~arik@c-98-215-254-55.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:31 < eleitl> http://www.kurzweilai.net/man-will-become-like-god-say-mormons-and-transhumanists-in-salt-lake-city <-- does not sound like a good idea 05:37 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:37 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has quit [Changing host] 05:37 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:55 < Swordsman> The title brings to mind the 'original sin' from Christianity 06:56 < Swordsman> not the original human sin, but the fall of Lucifer, for wanting 'to be like God' 06:56 < chris_99> that article explains nothing to me 06:58 < Swordsman> Like, the Bible doesn't even say that Lucifer did anything, he just *wanted* to be as awesome as God 06:59 < Swordsman> so like, God was basically Lucifer's rolemodel, and God pwn'd him 07:03 < ThomasEgi> http://volldost.soup.io/post/307732632/my-own-heaven 07:09 < chris_99> lol 07:09 < Swordsman> When I was a kid, I heard that a bunch in church, that Lucifer was cast from heaven for wanting to become God's equal, and it seemed to me that God was the real asshole in that situation 07:11 < Swordsman> basically, it kinda seemed to me like Lucifer's crime was being a transhumanist (maybe though maybe a term like 'transangelist' would be more fitting or something) 07:14 < Swordsman> so, I suspect that christianity and it's derivatives are technically in opposition to transhumanism, though a lot of christians seem to base their beliefs more on the culture of the church, than on what's actually written in the bible 07:15 * strangewarp grits teeth, avoids talking about theology/cosmology unless he's writing an opera about it or something ... 07:15 < Swordsman> so they're technically incompatible, but only hardcore fundamentalists are likely to notice 07:16 < Swordsman> heh yeah, it's a bad subject... I'll try to stop now, and just go for a walk 07:17 < strangewarp> on that subject, has anyone read Max Tegmark's cosmological work? I'm considering diverting myself with it 07:19 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:50 < strangewarp> Ugh, his website sucks, and his sense of humor seems stupid 07:52 -!- ParahSailin [~Rob@50-194-178-148-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:59 < strangewarp> Hm, he spoke at a Singularity Summit at some point, apparently? Interesting 08:29 < strangewarp> Oh hm. Max Tegmark has been acquaintences with Wei Dai for at least a decade and a half. That makes sense, since Wei Dai said he isn't concerned about preserving his brain with cryonics... 08:49 -!- Charlie [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:51 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:52 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:56 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10 -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@120.88.48.129] has quit [Quit: wrldpc] 09:16 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:56 < kanzure> strangewarp: i think tegmark is worth reading once, and then never again. 09:56 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:01 < kanzure> eleitl: shame on you for reading kurzweilai.net 10:01 < kanzure> you know that amara essentially regurgitates whatever you write by email, right? 10:05 < kanzure> http://enjoythedisruption.com/post/47527556151/my-thoughts-on-mendeley-elsevier-why-i-left-to-start "For that reason then I co-founded PeerJ, an Open Access journal, with one aim of never being in the position to take shit ever again from a closed publisher." 10:06 < strangewarp> kanzure: Not to pry, but is there a reason you dislike Tegmark? He seems to be confirming some hunches I've had, and some systems I've read casual explanations of, and I want to make sure I'm not falling into a cognitive trap. 10:08 < kanzure> no, i said he's worth reading once. that does not mean i dislike him. 10:08 < kanzure> but spending any more time on his cosmology wouldn't be very fruitful. 10:09 < kanzure> same with lee smolin, unless you happen to be a loop quantum gravity researcher. which you're not. 10:10 < strangewarp> ahhh 10:10 < strangewarp> alright then. 10:12 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-134-0-170.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:13 < eudoxia> tt is the universal common ancestor of all hplus-related news on the internet 10:13 < eudoxia> everything else, from nextbigfuture to kurzweilai is a link to a link to a link to a copypaste 10:14 < kanzure> http://cryptojunky.com/blog/2013/02/17/bitcoin-asic-roundup/ 10:15 < kanzure> eudoxia: nextbigfuture used to be alright 10:16 < eudoxia> lel it just dropped from 260 to 215 10:16 < eudoxia> the bubble might be about to burst 10:17 < eudoxia> i know 10:21 < eudoxia> http://puu.sh/2xx6T 10:22 < eudoxia> prepare your doom paul pictures, gather your children, say your goodbyes, for the Great Happening of our time is upon us 10:23 < kanzure> .title 10:23 < yoleaux> kanzure: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page. 10:23 < kanzure> fuck your shortened links 10:23 < chris_99> it's too hard to tell at the mo' i think it keeps swinging about 10:24 < eudoxia> it's a picture 10:24 < eudoxia> not a url shortener 10:24 < chris_99> http://bitcoinity.org/markets?currency=GBP&exchange=mtgox is a live link 10:25 < eudoxia> the internet here is collapsing so i had to ask a friend in australia to screenshot it and upload it for me 10:28 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-134-0-170.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:42 -!- nmz787__ [d047c845@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.200.69] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:43 < nmz787__> jrayhawk: are you around? I'm locked out of my house :/ 10:48 -!- radivis [~quassel@pD9F88F6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:49 -!- nmz787__ [d047c845@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.200.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:59 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@pool-96-231-37-73.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:00 < kanzure> through the windows! 11:14 < kanzure> why the heck was mendeley doing any marketing related to "open access" in the first place? 11:16 < kanzure> open access is mentioned a lot on e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5525111 11:17 < kanzure> hm, that's not the best example. 11:18 < kanzure> "In a much-rumored deal announced on Tuesday, academic publisher Elsevier (please see disclosure below) is acquiring Mendeley — a widely-used open platform for collaboration and networking related to scientific research — for about $70 million. While the founders of the network maintain that they are committed to the “open access” movement, and argue that having Elsevier’s resources will allow them to expand their work and make it ... 11:18 < kanzure> ... even more accessible, a number of high-profile users have said they aren’t convinced that Elsevier has changed its stripes, and they are taking their work elsewhere." 11:18 < kanzure> wtf? why would they even claim to be related to open access? 11:21 < kanzure> huh, pmr dropped a comment that says "We have to build our own Open alternative. Academia spends 10 billion/year on #scholpub – it can afford to create the metadata". $10 billion? 11:22 < kanzure> also strange that he doesn't consider zotero an alternative. 11:25 < archels> haha, from the Bullet engine: 11:25 < archels> Objects with higher mass do not fall faster, but require a larger force to be accelerated and stopped. Objects with higher mass only fall faster than lighter objects when there is air drag. 11:26 < kanzure> if you can go for something lighter than bullet, then consider box2d 11:26 < kanzure> also there's another one called openODE or something 11:26 -!- _if [~if@94-76-243-32.static.as29550.net] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 11:29 -!- Swordsman [~kohii@50.46.238.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:31 < kanzure> "At 2Ghz the speed of light in a vacuum delay is a clock cycle every 15cm. Current fiber and copper transmission is about 70% of c, so that's a clock cycle every 10.5 cm. A few clock cycle might not matter for bulk storage, but Intel is also talking about separating main memory from individual processors. There individual clock cycles do matter. Witness the rise of low latency premium RAM." 11:32 < ThomasEgi> the time where RAM was accessible wtihin a single clock cycle are over .. since quite a very long time ago actually 11:34 < ThomasEgi> pretty much since cpu speeds surpassed the system bus speed 11:36 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@82.159.59.4.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:36 < ThomasEgi> that was like.. dunno when cpu speed went above 66MHz or so. 11:39 -!- FooQuuxman [~arik@c-98-215-254-55.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:45 < jrayhawk> nmz787: ha ha 11:46 < kanzure> strange that he didn't just text you 11:46 < jrayhawk> Yeah. 11:47 < kanzure> actually, i suppose it's even stranger that i would suggest texting you 11:47 < kanzure> nevermind. 11:47 < jrayhawk> Oh I guess those underscores imply that he's not paying attention to his normal account. 11:47 < kanzure> he seems to only login to gnusha once in a blue moon 11:52 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:54 -!- AlonzoTG [~atg@pool-108-28-74-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:54 -!- AlonzoTG [~atg@pool-108-28-74-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:56 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:16 -!- FooQuuxman [~arik@c-98-215-254-55.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:32 -!- Charlie [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:37 -!- makoLime [~mako@103-9-42-32.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:42 -!- Charlie [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:43 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Quit: jmil] 12:46 -!- Charlie [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:57 < kanzure> i wonder if elsevier-mendeley is going to start deleting papers from your collection 12:59 < archels> oh, bitcoin already crashed. that was quick 13:04 -!- BioGuy [~BioGuy@209.152.45.35] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:04 < BioGuy> paperbot http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja00505a037 13:05 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Lucibufagins.%202.%20Esters%20of%2012-oxo-2.beta.%2C5.beta.%2C11.alpha.-trihydroxybufalin%2C%20the%20major%20defensive%20steroids%20of%20the%20firefly%20Photinus%20pyralis%20%28Coleoptera%3A%20Lampyridae%29.pdf 13:13 < kanzure> http://www.nature.com/news/see-through-brains-clarify-connections-1.12768 13:13 < kanzure> "A chemical treatment that turns whole organs transparent offers a big boost to the field of ‘connectomics’ — the push to map the brain’s fiendishly complicated wiring." 13:14 < kanzure> "The new method instead allows researchers to see directly into optically transparent whole brains or thick blocks of brain tissue. Called CLARITY, it was devised by Karl Deisseroth and his team at Stanford University in California. “You can get right down to the fine structure of the system while not losing the big picture,” says Deisseroth, who adds that his group is in the process of rendering an entire human brain transparent." 13:14 < kanzure> "The technique, published online in Nature on 10 April, turns the brain transparent using the detergent SDS, which strips away lipids that normally block the passage of light (K. Chung et al. Nature http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nature12107; 2013). Other groups have tried to clarify brains in the past, but many lipid-extraction techniques dissolve proteins and thus make it harder to identify different types of neurons. Deisseroth’s group ... 13:14 < kanzure> ... solved this problem by first infusing the brain with acryl­amide, which binds proteins, nucleic acids and other biomolecules. When the acrylamide is heated, it polymerizes and forms a tissue-wide mesh that secures the molecules. The resulting brain–hydrogel hybrid showed only 8% protein loss after lipid extraction, compared to 41% with existing methods." 13:14 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature12107.html 13:14 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Structural%20and%20molecular%20interrogation%20of%20intact%20biological%20systems.pdf 13:15 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/extref/nature12107-s1.pdf 13:15 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/7b0c273e70ca41c9d5e28f4efef62ada.pdf 13:16 < kanzure> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/fig_tab/nature12107_SV2.html "3D visualization of the YFP-expressing neuronal circuit elements from pial surface to the thalamus in the intact Thy-1:eYFP mouse brain (16 weeks old) shown in Fig. 2." 13:19 < kanzure> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/fig_tab/nature12107_SV14.html "Hippocampus region showing networks of YFP-expressing neurons (green), distribution of PV-positive neurons (red) and astrocytes (blue)." 13:20 < BioGuy> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A%3A1021072303515 13:20 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Firefly%20Toxicosis%20in%20Lizards.pdf 13:24 -!- Charlie [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:26 < kanzure> "Second, whereas passive diffusion of detergent micelles would take many months to completely extract lipids from the adult mouse brain, we developed an active-transport organ-electrophoresis approach, which we term electrophoretic tissue clearing (ETC), that capitalizes on the highly charged nature of ionic micelles." 13:27 < kanzure> ... organ electrophoresis. 13:28 < jrayhawk> ah, apparently he also lacks a phone 13:29 < kanzure> wtf is this madness http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/fig_tab/nature12107_SV3.html "3D visualization of YFP-expressing neuronal circuit elements in the ventral half of the intact Thy-1:eYFP mouse brain (16 weeks old)." 13:30 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:33 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:39 < kanzure> oh :( "K.C. and K.D. have disclosed these findings to the Stanford Office of Technology Licensing, which has filed a patent to ensure broad use of the methods in microscopy systems and for studying disease mechanisms and treatments. All protocols and methods remain freely available for academic and non-profit research in perpetuity, and supported by the authors, through the CLARITY website (http://CLARITYresourcecenter.org)" 13:40 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:40 < kanzure> http://clarityresourcecenter.org/ 13:40 < kanzure> http://clarityresourcecenter.org/CLARITY_Protocol.pdf 13:40 < kanzure> http://clarityresourcecenter.org/CLARITY_materials.pdf 13:45 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54 -!- Swordsman [~kohii@50.46.238.42] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:59 < kanzure> archels: is neuroml-technology@lists.sourceforge.net any good? 14:00 < kanzure> https://github.com/NeuroML/NeuroML2 14:00 < kanzure> https://github.com/NeuroML/jNeuroML 14:12 -!- ArmilusDajjal [~safitan@75-105-12-23.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:20 -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@120.88.48.129] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:22 -!- makoLime [~mako@103-9-42-32.flip.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:22 < ParahSailin> paperbot: http://www.cell.com/current-biology/retrieve/pii/S0960982213002108 14:22 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Vervet%20Monkeys%20Solve%20a%20Multiplayer%20Forbidden%20Circle%20Game%20by%20Queuing%20to%20Learn%20Restraint.pdf 14:23 < ParahSailin> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982213002108 14:23 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Vervet%20Monkeys%20Solve%20a%20Multiplayer%20Forbidden%20Circle%20Game%20by%20Queuing%20to%20Learn%20Restraint.txt 14:24 < kanzure> why is the same id in the cell.com and sciencedirect.com urls? 14:25 < ParahSailin> that "pdf" that paperbot fetched the first time linked to that sd url as the "canonical" one 14:26 < kanzure> hmm. 14:26 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=GatewayURL&_origin=CELLPRESS&_urlversion=4&_method=citationSearch&_version=1&_src=FPDF&_piikey=S0960982213002108&md5=7e2a1388af7c193792480eec36b20722 14:26 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Vervet%20Monkeys%20Solve%20a%20Multiplayer%20Forbidden%20Circle%20Game%20by%20Queuing%20to%20Learn%20Restraint.txt 14:27 < kanzure> i suppose i should not trust zotero translation-server to always return a pdf url 14:28 < kanzure> or paperbot should check the content-type on the url it gets back from asking translation-server instead of assuming it should be pdf 14:28 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28 -!- ArmilusDajjal [~safitan@75-105-12-23.cust.wildblue.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:30 < kanzure> i wonder if i could convince elsevier to run a program that checks pdfs for watermarks and then revoke access rights to unlicensed elsevier papers. just to see how evil they are willing to be. 14:31 < kanzure> uh, i mean, based on their new giant mendeley collection. 14:35 < brownies> can you really trust servers to return correct content-types? 14:35 < kanzure> in general i have found that most pdf serving servers will return the correct content-types 14:39 < kanzure> i can't recall an example where the pdf server was wrong 14:43 -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@120.88.48.129] has quit [Quit: wrldpc] 14:56 -!- plur [~nonentity@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:00 -!- strangewarp [~C@c-67-176-51-26.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00 -!- radivis [~quassel@pD9F88F6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04 -!- strangewarp [~C@c-67-176-51-26.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:05 -!- strangewarp [~C@c-67-176-51-26.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05 -!- strangewarp [~C@c-67-176-51-26.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:06 -!- strangewarp [~C@c-67-176-51-26.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:06 -!- strangewarp [~C@c-67-176-51-26.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:09 -!- plur [~nonentity@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:10 -!- strangewarp [~C@c-67-176-51-26.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@82.159.59.4.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:15 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:16 -!- Swordsman [~kohii@50.46.238.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:21 -!- strangewarp [~C@c-67-176-51-26.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:23 -!- strangewarp [~C@c-67-176-51-26.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:26 -!- strangewarp [~C@c-67-176-51-26.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:32 -!- lichen_ [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:33 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:39 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41 < kanzure> http://blog.blackwinghq.com/2013/04/08/2/ "Dissecting PostgreSQL CVE-2013-1899" 15:41 < kanzure> "Let’s take a look at this thing. Basically, the essence of the vuln is that when a client connects and specifies a database name that begins in “-” (hyphen), the postgres server misinterprets the database name as a command line flag for the server instance handling that connection (Even before any authentication is performed). In other words, an unauthenticated attacker can specify arbitrary command line flags to the target postgres ... 15:42 < kanzure> ... server that will handle their session." 15:43 -!- augur [~augur@ip-64-134-41-137.public.wayport.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:43 -!- augur [~augur@ip-64-134-41-137.public.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44 -!- augur [~augur@ip-64-134-41-137.public.wayport.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:51 -!- strangewarp [~C@c-67-176-51-26.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:51 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:51 -!- strangewarp [~C@c-67-176-51-26.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:54 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55 < kanzure> deleting mendeley accounts http://duncan.hull.name/2013/01/18/mendelete/ 15:57 < kanzure> http://www.glasscollective.com/ "Google Ventures, Andreessen Horowitz, and Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers have teamed up to form the Glass Collective. We’re excited by the promise of the Glass platform. Developers are already dreaming up new experiences for Glass, and we want to help bring those ideas to life. The Glass Collective investment syndicate will provide financing and support to entrepreneurs shaping the future through Glass." 15:57 < kanzure> "Glass is still in the early stages. Take a sneak peek at the Google Mirror API, which will allow you to build services for Glass." 15:57 < kanzure> gah it's a link to a fucking video :( 15:57 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpWmGX55a40 16:07 < brownies> am i the only one who hates that you have to communicate with Glass through audio? 16:07 < brownies> is it too much to ask that they just stuff a brain wave sensor in the frame, by the ear? 16:08 < kanzure> "brain waves" ugh 16:08 < kanzure> i fear that we will forever be talking about "brain waves" 16:08 < kanzure> yes yes i know that potentials are real... but :( 16:08 < brownies> brain particles? whatever 16:08 < brownies> you know, just throw some magnets in there and then... stuff will happen. 16:08 < kanzure> i would rather communicate with it by keyboard 16:09 < brownies> where would you put the keyboard though? 16:09 < kanzure> i wonder if i should attempt to pitch the zencoder/face-recognition idea. 16:09 < kanzure> on a shoulder strap 16:09 < brownies> zencoder? 16:09 < kanzure> or a belt hoist 16:09 < brownies> yes, a "utility belt" 16:09 < kanzure> the thing about provisioning servers for real-time video face processing stuff 16:09 < kanzure> we talked about this 16:10 < brownies> i vaguely recall this. you want to stream the Glass video to somewhere and then do something? 16:10 < kanzure> i remember it was you on the other side of the conversation 16:10 < kanzure> yeah because most people wont want to bother with the server problems of video encoding and other crap 16:10 < brownies> i remember that much too 16:11 < kanzure> everyone and their mom is going to be doing face recognition or facial expression detection 16:11 < kanzure> but they will want to focus on that instead of the other server stuff 16:11 < brownies> why does there need to be video encoding in the cloud? wouldn't it be most useful for client-side encoding before sending it to the clouds? 16:12 < kanzure> also: i just got the most amazing recruiter email ever. the subject line reads "Rails opportunity NYC (full telecommute okay)". ha ha ha. 16:12 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:12 < kanzure> brownies: well, you need to re-encode if you want it to be shown on other types of devices because not all devices play the same formats. 16:12 < brownies> i suppose so. 16:13 < kanzure> these are some battle-won bits of knowledge i picked up when i made that ridiculous mobile social network video thing.. 16:13 < kanzure> mobile devices are not going to be encoding your video into 10 different versions of x264 or w/e 16:13 < brownies> sure. just need one efficient one to get it up to the cloud 16:14 < kanzure> there are probably better ideas to be had 16:15 < brownies> brain waves, man. it's all about the brain waves. 16:15 < brownies> until they figure that one out the market will be confined to nerdboys who are ok with wandering around saying "ok glass" all the time 16:15 < kanzure> have you ever useed an eeg? 16:15 < brownies> hm... no, i don't think so. 16:16 < kanzure> i had an emotiv epoc for a while 16:16 < brownies> i'm aware it is... non-trivial. 16:16 < kanzure> and then i began reverse engineering it 16:16 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/emokit 16:16 < kanzure> it's not that it's non-trivial.. gaussian distributions to detect changes in the data are relatively easy. 16:16 < kanzure> the problem is that it sucks. 16:16 < kanzure> an ability to solve non-trivial problems will not make it suck less 16:16 < brownies> well, detecting a change is obviously easy enough 16:16 < brownies> the problem is making it a viable input/output mechanism that can be used reliably 16:17 < kanzure> a keyboard. 16:17 < brownies> so that, for example, glass doesn't call my dentist when i need it to take a photo 16:17 < kanzure> i think the output mechanism is the display, though. 16:17 < brownies> yeah, and audio. 16:18 < kanzure> you should go find a friend with an emotiv or neurosky or mindsky headset 16:18 < brownies> so really it's just a matter of "learning" how to input commands by pointing your brain in a certain direction 16:18 < kanzure> and go try it out 16:18 < kanzure> maybe i just had a particularly bad experience with them, but they could hardly be trained to distinguish between 2 different commands. 16:18 < brownies> i've seen the studies, as well as anecodtal usage by other people 16:19 < brownies> well... case studies, anyway 16:19 < kanzure> some people claim that there are up to 16 different trainable signals but i think that was like one guy that achieved that in a youtube demo once 16:20 < brownies> i do agree it's still years away from being viable for real use 16:20 < kanzure> i think the most successful eeg product so far has been the ears 16:20 < brownies> ears? 16:20 < kanzure> http://en.necomimi.com/ 16:22 < brownies> hahah 16:22 < brownies> i love how they productized it actually 16:22 < kanzure> they really know their market heh 16:24 < kanzure> ugh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnofwhV6fw0 16:25 <@fenn> they're just a bit too big 16:26 < chris_99> and theres a tail too i believe! 16:27 <@fenn> now it would be cool if they had built in parabolic microphones and earbuds 16:27 < chris_99> i'm sure i remember speaking to the guys in ##neuroscience and someone saying that it's not technically EEG but something else, but can't remember what they mentioned 16:28 < kanzure> probably EMG 16:28 < chris_99> yeah could be that 16:29 < kanzure> and their tail is ECG or something.. 16:29 < kanzure> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/tailly-the-tail-that-wags-when-you-get-excited 16:29 < kanzure> ugh :\ 16:29 < chris_99> lol 16:31 < kanzure> maybe one day i will get over my EEG bias. 16:31 < kanzure> anti-EEG bias i mean. 16:32 < brownies> it's based on heartrate? that's pretty lame 16:33 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:33 <@fenn> parietal lobe would make more sense for the ears, and then you wouldn't have a nerdstigma on your forehead 16:33 -!- augur [~augur@ip-64-134-41-137.public.wayport.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33 < strangewarp> these things will not be good enough until they connect to the nervous system. everything before then just feeds off otaku overenthusiasm 16:34 < kanzure> strangewarp: i think it's perfectly fine to feed off of otaku overenthusiasm. they found a really good market fit. 16:34 < kanzure> i just happen to hate it. heh. 16:34 < brownies> i don't think it's necessary to connect directly. there's enough data available from external sensors; it's just a UI matter 16:34 <@fenn> i guess they didnt want to mess with electrodes going through hair 16:34 < kanzure> brownies: you really need to experiment with these devices before you claim there's enough data.. 16:34 < kanzure> the data is there but it's not necessarily something that you can control as a user.. 16:35 < brownies> kanzure: that's why i said it's a UI matter 16:35 < kanzure> by that logic everything is user interface 16:35 < kanzure> what? 16:35 < brownies> kanzure: http://www.nature.com/news/scientists-read-dreams-1.11625 16:35 <@fenn> that's fMRI; huge difference 16:35 < brownies> kanzure: it is a matter of making the "interface" usable without loads of training, and making it error-free 16:36 < brownies> fenn: i said "external sensors" 16:36 < brownies> you people. 16:38 <@fenn> let's make an effort not to conflate EEG and fMRI 16:38 < kanzure> i would be happy to lug around an fmri 16:38 < kanzure> at least it would be more useful than eeg 16:38 < brownies> besides, that is one example of how much data is available 16:38 < brownies> fenn: let's make an effort not to read "external sensors" as "one type of sensor" then. 16:38 < kanzure> wtf... 16:38 <@fenn> the whole conversation was about EEG up to this point 16:38 -!- BioGuy [~BioGuy@209.152.45.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38 <@fenn> unless you meant something else by "brainwaves" 16:38 < brownies> well, y'know. if they just make MRI 1000x smaller, that works too. 16:38 -!- smeaaagle_ [~smeaaagle@2002:6ca6:4fb1::6ca6:4fb1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:38 < chris_99> what's the thing called where you shine a laser through the skull and pickup the reflection iirc 16:38 < brownies> fenn: fair, i did say "waves." i'm open to all brainy things though. 16:38 <@fenn> chris_99: infrared spectroscopy? 16:38 -!- jrayhawk_ [~jrayhawk@nursie.omgwallhack.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:38 < kanzure> infrared reflectrometry or something 16:38 < kanzure> reflectometry 16:38 -!- jrayhawk [~jrayhawk@nursie.omgwallhack.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:38 -!- smeaaagle [~smeaaagle@2002:6ca6:4fb1::6ca6:4fb1] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:38 -!- smeaaagle_ is now known as smeaaagle 16:39 < kanzure> brownies: i still insist that you should go steal one of these devices (emotiv epoc, neurosky, mindsky, etc.) from a friend and try it out for a few days. 16:39 < ParahSail1n> those are eegs? 16:39 < kanzure> also if you know someone who has an openeeg helmet, that would also be acceptable 16:39 <@fenn> better to get something like openEEG so you can see what the raw data looks like 16:39 < kanzure> ParahSail1n: to be honest i've lost track. 16:40 <@fenn> it's a NOORAL IMPALS AKTUATOR 16:41 < kanzure> i guess i should write this down on the wiki 16:42 < kanzure> i thought someone was claiming that emotiv epoc wasn't eeg either 16:42 < brownies> kanzure: looking over summaries, there is obviously enough available data from EEGs 16:42 < brownies> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain%E2%80%93computer_interface#EEG 16:42 < brownies> it's just a matter of reducing training time and requiring fewer electrodes 16:43 < kanzure> number of electrodes seriously doesn't matter to me. couldn't care less if it was 100 or 1000. 16:43 < brownies> experiments from the '90s proved there was enough data available 16:43 < brownies> so i don't know where you people get off 16:43 -!- FooQuuxman [~arik@c-98-215-254-55.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:44 < brownies> kanzure: yeah, i would wear any sort of fancy hat if it would save me the trouble of having to physically type things 16:44 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:44 < ParahSail1n> someone had a silly eeg game at sens 2011 16:44 < kanzure> i see nothing in this wikipedia article about data bandwidth through an eeg helmet 16:44 < kanzure> i mean, controlled data, not raw data. 16:46 < brownies> kanzure: there's enough data available to move around a mouse cursor. that's about the right order of magnitude to work with glass, i think. 16:46 < kanzure> just use a gyroscope for that? 16:46 < kanzure> that's what emotiv does for mouse movement. 16:46 < brownies> would be kind of clunky to move around a mouse cursor over my field of view, but it's still better than saying "ok glass" all the time like a jackass 16:46 < kanzure> it turns out that daeken got the protocol wrong when he was looking into emotiv epoc 16:47 < brownies> kanzure: well, the point here is to do it without requiring any movement or... "external output" from the body, if you will 16:47 < kanzure> and as a result the mouse would bounce around like crazy 16:47 < kanzure> he later admitted to me that he totally guessed 16:47 < brownies> haha 16:47 < kanzure> until i fixed it https://github.com/kanzure/emokit/commit/b023a3c195410147dae44a3ce3a6d72f7c16e441 16:48 < kanzure> dunno where he even came up with the idea of -106 and -105 there... 16:49 < ParahSail1n> lol 16:49 < brownies> heh 16:49 < ParahSail1n> those were the lowest values he observed, so just used them as offset 16:50 < kanzure> hmm i wonder why qdoteledildonics hasn't merged in my branch yet 16:50 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:50 * strangewarp sidles up to a stranger wearing Google Glass on the subway 16:50 < strangewarp> "ok glass, search for tubgirl" 16:50 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51 -!- abetusk [~abetusk@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:52 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Quit: My hard drives are thrumming. They need more screws.] 16:52 < kanzure> superkuh is not solid state yet 16:56 < brownies> hopefully glass does voice recognition so not anyone can command your own glass? 16:56 < brownies> otherwise it would be a really shitty MVP 16:57 < kanzure> but that would mean you can't hand your device to someone else to play with 16:57 < kanzure> it's probably doing the jawbone sound thing? 16:58 < brownies> i don't want other people getting their grubby face on it 17:02 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:15 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:15 < strangewarp> Eventually I will run my entire live music setup off a Glass-like device (for HUD) and a RasPi-like device (for MIDI software and USB devices). Until then.. glancing diagonally at a laptop 17:19 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:22 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:25 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:33 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:40 < kanzure> huh, i didn't know that eidetic memory was considered unproven 17:41 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Quit: jmil] 17:43 <@fenn> the CLARITY technique makes for some great brain porn, if you haven't seen the mouse hippocampus video yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-NMfp13Uug 17:45 <@fenn> i wonder what keeps membrane-bound proteins from washing out along with the lipids 17:45 < kanzure> i think the proteins get attached to the hydrogel 17:46 -!- FooQuuxman [~arik@c-98-215-254-55.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:55 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:58 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:00 -!- ParahSail1n [~pwang@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:07 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:19 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002839320400301X 18:19 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Recollection%20of%20vivid%20memories%20after%20perirhinal%20region%20stimulations%3A%20synchronization%20in%20the%20theta%20range%20of%20spatially%20distributed%20brain%20areas.pdf 18:26 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2889679/pdf/fnhum-04-00046.pdf 18:26 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/664a7fef7c56221148ab75759d29f431.pdf 18:31 < kanzure> that's a really neat article. it's a review of 100 years of electrical brain stimulation literature. 18:34 < superkuh> Yoink. 18:52 -!- Guest28932 [~quassel@192.210.211.75] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:57 -!- yash [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:59 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:11 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:13 -!- lichen_ [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:23 -!- FooQuuxman [~arik@c-98-215-254-55.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:35 < kanzure> "We are located in Seattle, WA. The project is headed by Bergen McMurray (Co-Director) and Katriona Guthrie-Honea (Co-Director). Bergen is a student of neuroscience and has worked with the Allen Institute for Brain Science and Jigsaw Renaissance. Katriona is a student at Ingraham High School and an intern at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center." 19:35 < kanzure> hooray maybe we will get a mole at allen brain institute 19:42 < kanzure> http://www.synbio.org.uk/component/content/article/46-instrumentation-news/2725-microincubator-for-long-term-live-cell-microscopy-and-hypoxic-culture.html 19:42 < brownies> why do you need a mole? 19:43 < kanzure> because it's a brain probing organization funded by a billionaire? 19:45 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@69-61-156-24.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47 < kanzure> "Along with his sister Jo Lynn, Allen pledged $100 million in 2003 to found the Allen Institute for Brain Science, a nonprofit corporation (501(c) (3)) and medical research organization. Utilizing the mouse model system (given its great similarity to human DNA), 20,000 genes in the adult mouse brain were mapped to a cellular level for the Allen Brain Atlas. The data generated from this effort is contained in the free and publicly available ... 19:48 < kanzure> ... Allen Brain Atlas application." 19:48 < kanzure> "On July 16, 2008, Allen launched a $41 million online "Allen Spinal Cord Atlas" mouse gene map." 19:48 < kanzure> "In March 2012 he continued the funding of the Allen Institute for Brain Science with a contribution of $300 million to look at how we see." 19:55 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:58 -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@120.88.48.129] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:09 < abetusk> When searching for 'open hardware' from the list of channels, this channel is only one of two that show up 20:10 < kanzure> there used to be #openhardware but nothing happens in there 20:10 < kanzure> #reprap is probably the largest open hardware channel 20:11 < kanzure> #qi-hardware is the one with the most money or income 20:11 < kanzure> and #hackerspaces has the most global reach 20:12 < abetusk> interesting 20:12 < abetusk> thanks 20:13 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@69-61-156-24.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:13 < kanzure> there's also #makerbot #lemoncurry and a number of other project-specific channels 20:13 < abetusk> sure, but open hardware specifically 20:13 < kanzure> reprap. 447 users. 20:14 < abetusk> oshwa, for example, doesn't have a channel 20:14 < abetusk> at least, not on freenode 20:14 < kanzure> the oshwa people are not the types to use irc :( 20:15 < Viper168> haters 20:20 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:23 -!- wizrobe [~userdi@c-76-23-254-105.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 20:29 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:31 -!- Charlie [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:54 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:57 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:07 -!- ArmilusDajjal [~safitan@75-105-12-23.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:15 -!- ArmilusDajjal [~safitan@75-105-12-23.cust.wildblue.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:15 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:25 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:27 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:28 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Quit: the neuronal action potential is an electrical manipulation of reversible abrupt phase changes in the lipid bilayer] 21:32 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:33 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:34 -!- yash [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:37 < AshleyWaffle> does anyone know how practical appearance modifying (nano? perhaps slightly bigger than nano) bots are? 21:38 < AshleyWaffle> at this point, anyway 21:38 < brownies> i can put a Sony Aibo on my head 21:38 < kanzure> have you considered surgery 21:39 < AshleyWaffle> Lol 21:39 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: it doesn't work for some things though (or at least not as well), like height 21:39 < AshleyWaffle> or {foot,hand,shoulder,everything} size 21:39 < kanzure> have you considered hormones? 21:40 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: yeah, that can help with SOME stuff 21:40 < AshleyWaffle> less than you might think 21:40 < AshleyWaffle> not nearly a "magic pill" 21:40 < AshleyWaffle> there's apparently FFS for every facial feature, but I don't know what quality 21:40 < AshleyWaffle> (face feminzation surgery == FFS) 21:40 < kanzure> i didn't say it was magic 21:42 < AshleyWaffle> well 21:42 < AshleyWaffle> I assume nano bots are relative magic 21:43 < AshleyWaffle> "Any sufficient technology seems like magic" - Whoever 21:43 < AshleyWaffle> I mean at this level, changing such relatively basic appearance features should (and PARTIALLY is already) fairly trivial 21:43 < AshleyWaffle> not turning into an octupus or anything lol 21:44 <@fenn> how about a face transplant 21:45 <@fenn> hundreds of faces going into the dumpster every day 21:45 < kanzure> thanks to face off 21:45 < kanzure> here, read some nanotech science http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/nanotech/ 21:46 < AshleyWaffle> fenn: can't do a "height" transplant though :( 21:46 <@fenn> AshleyWaffle: maybe in 5 years we'll have usable "3d printed" tissue, but until then it's the same old meat cleaver routine 21:47 < AshleyWaffle> I can wait 5 years 21:47 <@fenn> you can modify height, it's just expensive and extremely painful 21:47 < AshleyWaffle> fenn: yeah... by the time I'd recover (if), they'd be able to 3d print a new body for me 21:49 <@fenn> as much as i love that scene in the fifth element, it's not going to happen any time soon 21:49 <@fenn> also there's the whole problem of identity 21:50 < kanzure> identity? 21:50 <@fenn> you know, the forking problem 21:50 <@fenn> if you make a perfect copy, which one's "the real you" 21:50 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:50 <@fenn> if you delete the original is it murder (or suicide) or whatever 21:51 <@fenn> things for your sister to argue about with her college buddies 21:52 < kanzure> why phantomjs doesn't have Function.prototype.bind https://groups.google.com/d/msg/phantomjs/r0hPOmnCUpc/uxusqsl2LNoJ 21:56 < AshleyWaffle> I think bitcoin's fall is good timing 21:56 < AshleyWaffle> cause now the people looking into it after the hype 21:56 < kanzure> please keep bitcoin talk to #bitcoin-price 21:56 < AshleyWaffle> can get a good price 21:56 < AshleyWaffle> er... 21:56 < AshleyWaffle> is that a rule? 0_o 21:56 < kanzure> sort of. sure. why not. 21:56 < kanzure> everyone in agreement about banning bitcoin? 21:56 < AshleyWaffle> lol 21:56 < yashgaroth> aye 21:56 < kanzure> also banning lol while we're at it 21:57 < AshleyWaffle> and silence? 21:57 < kanzure> been meaning to do that one for a while 21:57 < kanzure> no silence is fine 21:57 < AshleyWaffle> o_o 21:57 < kanzure> i think that word is useful 21:57 < kanzure> do you disagree? 21:57 < AshleyWaffle> yes 21:57 < kanzure> you are against silence? 22:01 < AshleyWaffle> mmhmm 22:01 < AshleyWaffle> LOUDNESS IS PATRICIAN! :D 22:01 < AshleyWaffle> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OATPtXONrt4 22:03 < kanzure> .title 22:03 < yoleaux> NOVAkILL - DEADinside (live) - YouTube 22:03 < kanzure> what? 22:03 < AshleyWaffle> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XibCSxvwT9s 22:03 < AshleyWaffle> .title 22:03 < yoleaux> GRENDEL: Guilt By Association - YouTube 22:04 < AshleyWaffle> electro-industrial 22:04 < AshleyWaffle> come to think of it, the genre was recommended to me by another agorist transhumanist friend 22:05 -!- Aldenious [~DragonKin@203-97-254-41.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:05 < AshleyWaffle> Aldenious: nibble :D 22:05 < AshleyWaffle> alden's mah friend 22:06 < AshleyWaffle> he's a monarchist 22:06 < Aldenious> AshleyWaffle, Rawr! 22:06 < Aldenious> lol 22:06 < AshleyWaffle> lol 22:06 < kanzure> please no lol 22:06 < Aldenious> not really 22:06 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ 22:06 < AshleyWaffle> :( 22:06 < Aldenious> i'm a objectivist. 22:06 < AshleyWaffle> Aldenious: well you called ME a monarchist 22:06 <@fenn> -_- 22:06 < Aldenious> AshleyWaffle, i was jokinh, calm down :P 22:07 * AshleyWaffle was never de-calmed 22:07 < Aldenious> the royal we! 22:07 <@kanzure> fenn: what do i do 22:07 < AshleyWaffle> all the royals 22:07 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: replicating like rabits lol 22:07 -!- AshleyWaffle was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [AshleyWaffle] 22:07 -!- AshleyWaffle [~qibble@unaffiliated/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:07 < AshleyWaffle> hey :( 22:07 < AshleyWaffle> what did I do? 22:07 <@kanzure> i was very clear about it 22:08 < AshleyWaffle> about...? 22:08 <@kanzure> i don't know how i can possibly be more clear than that 22:08 < Aldenious> i think he's geting anoyed. 22:08 * Aldenious shrugs. 22:08 < AshleyWaffle> Aldenious: by? 22:08 < Aldenious> not sure. 22:08 <@kanzure> you two are really bad at reading 22:09 < AshleyWaffle> ohhh 22:09 < AshleyWaffle> you were saying "ell oh ell" is against the rules... 22:09 < AshleyWaffle> which I don't get at all 22:09 <@fenn> also the SNR dropped by about 20 dB 22:09 < Aldenious> kanzure> please no lol: no political discusion? 22:09 <@kanzure> it means no "lol" 22:09 < AshleyWaffle> ... 22:09 < AshleyWaffle> statist oppressor 22:09 <@kanzure> why are you here? can you leave? 22:09 < AshleyWaffle> monarchist! 22:10 < AshleyWaffle> I'm just idling, ParahSailin invited me 22:10 <@kanzure> this is not how you idle 22:10 < AshleyWaffle> yeah, I occasionally (gasp) speak, and then I get quiet again 22:10 < Aldenious> he's asking us to keep politcis out of here, thats oki by me. 22:10 < AshleyWaffle> from my observations, that's... normal by irc standards 22:10 < jrayhawk_> HI EVERYONE <<>> A/S/L 22:10 <@kanzure> no, filling a channel with gibberish is not normal. get out. 22:10 -!- jrayhawk_ is now known as jrayhawk 22:11 < yashgaroth> lol 22:11 < yashgaroth> OH GOD IT'S SPREADING 22:11 <@fenn> squee! 22:11 < yashgaroth> help 22:11 <@kanzure> XD XD XD 16f cali 22:11 < AshleyWaffle> jrayhawk: I'm 237, I live in DC, and I'm all the sexes 22:11 < Aldenious> o.O. 19m NZ? o.O 22:11 <@kanzure> we were being sarcastic. what we really meant was shut up. 22:12 < AshleyWaffle> ohhh 22:12 * Aldenious shuted up >>. 22:12 < AshleyWaffle> why have a channel if people can't talk 22:12 < AshleyWaffle> not only that but the topic seems to suit "silly" populations... 22:12 < jrayhawk> kanz ur so mean :pout: 22:12 < Aldenious> i'd disagree sorta AshleyWaffle 22:12 <@kanzure> you are not being silly, you're being low signal 22:12 < AshleyWaffle> :pout: 22:12 < Aldenious> i think the topic's quiet serious. 22:12 < AshleyWaffle> Aldenious: nice pun 22:13 < Aldenious> i didn't intend a pun? o.O 22:13 -!- Swordsman [~kohii@173-160-235-41-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:13 -!- Swordsman [~kohii@173-160-235-41-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:13 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: suggestions please 22:13 < yashgaroth> kill them, kill them all 22:13 < AshleyWaffle> yashgaroth: you said lol 22:13 < AshleyWaffle> banhammer 22:13 < yashgaroth> but then that's my solution to everything 22:13 < AshleyWaffle> oh god I just said it too! 22:13 * Aldenious sighs, curls up, and hmms 22:14 < AshleyWaffle> Aldenious: Silence! Humming is not allowed! 22:14 * Aldenious eyerolls. 22:14 <@kanzure> if you two have any projects you'd like to share, we're listening. otherwise get out. 22:14 <@fenn> so. 3d printed bodies. your tax dollars at work, the only useful results from the visible human project: http://www.criticalcommons.org/Members/JLipshin/clips/the-fifth-element-and-the-cyborg 22:14 < Aldenious> well, actuly, i was just talking about artifical intelience on another channel. 22:14 <@kanzure> artificial intelligence is also banned. 22:15 < Aldenious> i'm a compsci? >>. 22:15 <@kanzure> you don't sound comp sci 22:15 < Aldenious> i am very much a computer science student. 22:15 <@kanzure> if you were really comp sci then you would say machine learning 22:15 <@fenn> there is in fact a difference 22:15 <@kanzure> which is categorically different from "artificial intelligence" 22:15 < Aldenious> no, i mean artificial intelligence. 22:15 < Aldenious> i understand the difference 22:15 <@kanzure> right, artificial intelligence is the one that nobody knows anything about 22:15 < Aldenious> but i mean artifical inteigence 22:16 <@kanzure> and that is the one that goes nowhere 22:16 <@kanzure> and that nobody can appropriately talk about 22:16 <@fenn> if you want to be really nerdy you talk about game theory 22:16 < Aldenious> usually, yes. 22:16 < jrayhawk> hey guys want to talk about the singularity man that ray kurzweil guy is so amazing 22:16 < Aldenious> except i may have recently pinned it to something faitly specific. 22:16 <@fenn> jrayhawk: omg did u see the movie 22:17 < yashgaroth> guys I am so totally getting nanobots to make me like 10 feet tall 22:19 < AshleyWaffle> meanwhile, /me is forming a mutiny... 22:19 < AshleyWaffle> jrayhawk: he's so patrician 22:19 < AshleyWaffle> yashgaroth: or to have ten feet! (teen feet?) 22:23 -!- venturecommunism [~ventureco@unaffiliated/venturecommunist] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:23 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: your friends suck dude 22:23 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: why did you bring them in here 22:23 < venturecommunism> hey bryan 22:24 <@kanzure> yes? 22:24 < venturecommunism> how's the dependency management system for OSHW coming 22:24 <@kanzure> needs more developers. 22:24 < venturecommunism> i remember you were working on that at some point 22:24 < Aldenious> OSHW? 22:25 < venturecommunism> i'm working on dependency management for tasks, but it's not in python 22:25 < venturecommunism> http://meteor.com 22:25 <@kanzure> you raised $12M? 22:25 < venturecommunism> the idea is to be interoperable with http://taskwarrior.org 22:26 < AshleyWaffle> venturecommunism: rule 1, no "lol", rule 2, no artificial intelligence, rule 3 no bitcoin, rule 4, this is not an irc channel, this is a place for peace and tranquility 22:26 <@kanzure> i highly doubt that you are behind meteor 22:26 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: I think you're a troll 22:26 < venturecommunism> i'm not trying to imply i'm behind meteor 22:26 < venturecommunism> i'm saying that instead of writing the thing i'm writing in python i'm writing it in meteor 22:27 <@kanzure> i don't think a todo list is the right format for expressing hardware dependencies 22:27 < venturecommunism> well you're focused on the interfaces right? 22:27 <@kanzure> s/expressing/representing/ 22:27 <@kanzure> not at the moment no 22:27 < venturecommunism> conceptually though? 22:27 < venturecommunism> what's your focus now anyway 22:28 <@kanzure> right now skdb could use some honest architecture review from other developers 22:28 <@kanzure> also it could use smaller tools that work really well on specific problems instead of one monolithic tool that is supposed to do everything 22:28 <@kanzure> furthermore it would be really cool if more people tried to package all the open source hardware out there 22:28 <@kanzure> that would be very helpful 22:28 < venturecommunism> definitely 22:28 * fenn puts in a request for a decent open source cad program while we're at it 22:29 < venturecommunism> i was thinking of mass producing http://shapeoko.com routers as an open participation mass collaborative enterprise 22:29 < venturecommunism> in nyc 22:29 <@kanzure> why does it have to be in nyc wtf 22:29 < venturecommunism> so that would involve curating and versioning that better, video i'd hope, etc. 22:29 <@kanzure> and why shapeoko in particular.. that also strikes me as odd. 22:29 < venturecommunism> i'm very open to that shapeoko is not right 22:30 < venturecommunism> in fact the biggest piece i'd say i'm missing at the moment is to fit my particular logistical situation of nyc, occupy sandy warehouses, etc. 22:30 <@kanzure> what? 22:30 < venturecommunism> to a specific product 22:30 < venturecommunism> i have a link to the concept, one sec 22:30 < venturecommunism> http://venturecommunism.com/document/plan-local-manufacturing-using-example-product-shapeoko 22:31 <@kanzure> what is the point of this 22:31 < venturecommunism> massive onboarding of open source hardware people would be nice 22:32 < venturecommunism> popularizing the concept not just of OSHW but open source business models 22:32 < venturecommunism> for worker cooperatives 22:32 <@kanzure> "p2p flash manufacturing"... no thanks. not interested. 22:32 < venturecommunism> little buzzwordy, ok 22:32 <@kanzure> sigh 22:32 <@fenn> i think you should reorganize your draft with an outline at the top that explains 1) goal/problem definition 2) method/solution 22:33 -!- balrog [~balrog@discferret/developer/balrog] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:33 < venturecommunism> problem definition, people need skills, money and step by step instructions for how to arrive at the open source hardware solution through first hand experience, some mass movement, some visibility 22:33 <@kanzure> there are already business models that work with open source software/hardware 22:33 <@kanzure> it doesn't really "need popularizing" in the first place.. who cares. 22:36 < venturecommunism> anyway right now i'm in the early stages of planning how to gamify an online technical school for OS hardware 22:36 <@kanzure> ugh you're a redditor aren't you 22:37 < venturecommunism> not until a few months ago 22:37 < venturecommunism> ~3 22:38 -!- balrog [~balrog@discferret/developer/balrog] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:39 <@kanzure> fenn: huh one of the langton labs guys did meteor 22:39 <@kanzure> glasser i think 22:41 <@kanzure> hmm "Geoff is the proprietor of Monument, a 24-unit live/work community for scientists and artists, currently being built in a converted warehouse in San Francisco" 22:41 <@kanzure> phage should infect that and take it over 22:42 < venturecommunism> i think geoff is the one who has comments in the code that say "Stand back, I'm going to try SCIENCE" 22:42 < venturecommunism> meteor's getting better documented over here: http://www.eventedmind.com/ 22:43 < venturecommunism> anyway i'm a beginner to javascript 22:43 <@kanzure> how about instead of all this social stuff you write some code or review the package format or something 22:43 <@kanzure> bleh 22:43 < venturecommunism> been up 40 hours tonight writing code 22:44 < venturecommunism> to gamify open source hardware incubation 22:44 <@kanzure> that makes me sad. 22:44 < venturecommunism> you know i have looked at skdb before? 22:44 < venturecommunism> it was a year or two ago 22:45 <@kanzure> gamification isn't going to make a thousand packages spring up 22:45 <@kanzure> nor will "in app payments" 22:45 < venturecommunism> it's little work for me to do in app payments since i'm just piggybacking off http://payswarm.com 22:46 < venturecommunism> which already has a node.js client, it works fine 22:46 <@kanzure> just because it's easy doesn't mean it makes sense 22:46 <@kanzure> wtf dude 22:46 < venturecommunism> what's the harm 22:46 -!- Charlie [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:46 <@kanzure> wasting time on bullshit when you could be working on more important things 22:47 <@kanzure> that's the harm. 22:47 < venturecommunism> i'm open to what you think i should be doing 22:47 < venturecommunism> i asked what's happened lately on skdb since i saw it a year ago 22:47 <@kanzure> i gave you some very explicit answers 22:47 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: how hard is biohacking? 22:47 < AshleyWaffle> sorry for being silly earlier 22:47 < venturecommunism> make packages, well i was going to "package" shapeoko but maybe not in the skdb sense of a package since the two don't relate 22:48 < venturecommunism> and now i find out shapeoko is awful and i'm glad to hear that because i've wanted input on that for a while 22:48 <@kanzure> what is this second sense of package that you are talking about? 22:48 <@kanzure> AshleyWaffle: have you worked in a biology lab ever? 22:49 < AshleyWaffle> Not really 22:49 < AshleyWaffle> so no 22:49 < venturecommunism> my goal is to document well enough to bootstrap a flurry of activity that would be grounds for getting the high hanging CAD fruit, the circuitry, the 10 or 12 different kinds of open hardware data 22:50 <@kanzure> AshleyWaffle: have you studied any biology ever? 22:50 <@kanzure> venturecommunism: that doesn't answer my question 22:50 < AshleyWaffle> Yeah, I'm in a biology class now in fact 22:50 < AshleyWaffle> But not much 22:50 <@kanzure> high school biology? 22:50 < AshleyWaffle> yeah, I'm in high school biology now 22:51 < AshleyWaffle> it's fairly interesting stuff 22:51 <@kanzure> okay. i recommend throwing away your text book and reading these: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/books 22:51 < venturecommunism> i mean basics like bill of materials, URLs for parts suppliers for off the shelf parts, CAD files for the parts that are currently susceptible economically and logistically for large numbers of people to local manufacturing 22:51 <@kanzure> *textbook 22:51 < AshleyWaffle> hehe thanks 22:51 <@kanzure> venturecommunism: i think a good first step would be to make tools that work with that file format 22:51 <@kanzure> venturecommunism: thingdoc is very lonely all by itself 22:51 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: 404 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/books/Molecular%20Biology%20of%20the%20Gene%20-%202006.pdf 22:51 <@kanzure> AshleyWaffle: also you should read http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq or edit it when you see something wrong 22:52 <@kanzure> AshleyWaffle: use the other ones 22:52 < AshleyWaffle> yeah, there's a 404 for that one 22:52 < AshleyWaffle> okay 22:52 < venturecommunism> i'll look at the specs again, see what i can do 22:52 <@kanzure> venturecommunism: i don't think you should skip straight to in-app payments when all the other tools are undefined 22:52 < venturecommunism> i'm not spending time on in-app payment, i'm getting everything else started 22:52 <@kanzure> venturecommunism: just because you can string certain words together doesn't mean they are communicating anything.. same goes with code. 22:52 < venturecommunism> the gamified environment could be coursera.org as much as some kind of package manager 22:53 <@kanzure> i don't think that makes any sense. 22:53 < venturecommunism> where's the online technical school for OSHW? 22:53 <@kanzure> why would there have to be a school? unschool. 22:53 < venturecommunism> coursera is unschool to me 22:53 <@kanzure> coursera is a pile of horseshit 22:53 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: unschooling. I'm with you 22:53 <@kanzure> have you ever tried their offerings? it's just hours of bullshit video. 22:54 < venturecommunism> yeah i like their course on gamification 22:54 < venturecommunism> i agree that it's crap compared to what's needed 22:54 <@kanzure> video is nothing like package management 22:54 <@kanzure> i think you are on drugs and crazy 22:54 < venturecommunism> where's the electrical box set, where's the plumbing box set 22:54 <@kanzure> what? 22:54 < AshleyWaffle> venturecommunism: seriously, what are you talking about 22:55 < venturecommunism> i didn't say video was like package management. i said that a gamified meteor.js realtime collaborative portal for open source hardware workers' coops could be a technical school, a package manager 22:55 <@kanzure> i am not convinced that you know what a package manager is 22:55 < venturecommunism> i don't know of any good electrical or plumbing courses online in video 22:55 < venturecommunism> a package manager for open source hardware? other than skdb i don't know of any 22:56 < venturecommunism> other than that i like conary 22:56 <@kanzure> if you want to make videos for learning plumbing that's cool but you should use different words to say that 22:56 < venturecommunism> i'm willing to adapt how i speak for the sake of clarity, sure 22:56 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: what do you mean by package manager in this context? like apt? 22:56 <@kanzure> AshleyWaffle: http://gnusha.org/skdb 22:56 < venturecommunism> so feel free to let me know what would make it more clear 22:57 <@kanzure> i don't see how watching videos has anything to do with computers figuring out dependencies 22:57 <@kanzure> or why i would want your "realtime collaborative portal". 22:57 < venturecommunism> need visibility to attract experts 22:57 < venturecommunism> a purpose, a war effort, motivation 22:57 <@kanzure> visibility does not attract experts. 22:58 < venturecommunism> i don't know how you can disconfirm that it does, but i've been operating under the assumption that it might 22:58 <@kanzure> instead of hoping for experts to show up how about you gain smoe damn expertise yourself. geeze. 22:58 <@kanzure> *some 22:59 < venturecommunism> do you think there's value in product selection metrics a la OSE? 22:59 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: what book should I be reading first? 22:59 < venturecommunism> as a communication device? 22:59 <@kanzure> AshleyWaffle: all of them. they are difficult to read one at a time. 22:59 <@kanzure> venturecommunism: i think OSE is terrible at open source hardware. 23:00 < AshleyWaffle> I don't understand... How else would I read them? 23:00 <@kanzure> i don't know what you mean by "product selection metrics" 23:00 < venturecommunism> http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Product_Selection_Metric 23:00 <@kanzure> AshleyWaffle: it's possible to read multiple books at the same time.. you don't have to "finish" one.. 23:00 < venturecommunism> kanzure: could you elaborate on OSE being terrible at that? 23:01 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: I guess I've never tried that... 23:01 <@kanzure> venturecommunism: OSE has publicly admitted recently that they don't even believe in schematics 23:01 -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:01 <@kanzure> venturecommunism: OSE is probably the absolute worst role model you can pick for open source hardware 23:02 <@kanzure> now excuse me while i watch my dbz movie trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MlmbmNZP9s 23:02 < venturecommunism> well they've done SOME things 23:02 < venturecommunism> kanzure: and they're seeking collaboration in effective ways 23:02 <@kanzure> hahah effective 23:02 <@kanzure> dude wtf 23:03 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: all I can say is their site looks cool. 23:03 < AshleyWaffle> but that doesn't say much 23:03 <@kanzure> AshleyWaffle: who's site? 23:03 < venturecommunism> kanzure: can you link me to something you think i should read then? 23:03 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: OSE's 23:04 < AshleyWaffle> I mean, it's well marketed in that sense I guess 23:04 <@kanzure> AshleyWaffle: they are trying to do hardware projects without schematics and just by dumping in lots of text into wikis. that's not how you do real hardware projects. 23:04 < venturecommunism> but it's how you put more eyes on the problem 23:04 <@kanzure> venturecommunism: i think prusa's reprap git repos are really good examples 23:04 < AshleyWaffle> Yeah, I noticed that when I looked deeper into the wiki 23:04 <@kanzure> venturecommunism: no. eyes on their problem haven't solved it. 23:04 < venturecommunism> it's how you put real skills BODILY into people 23:05 <@kanzure> venturecommunism: nope. they are still just as bad as they were when they ignored our advice years ago. and fenn's even earlier. 23:05 <@kanzure> fuck 'em 23:05 <@kanzure> they will die in their own miserable non-version controlled non-computerized hell 23:06 < venturecommunism> kanzure: what do you think the role of JSON-LD or OWL etc. might play here? 23:06 < venturecommunism> iow what about working on the linked data problem per se 23:06 < venturecommunism> maybe payments is the killer app 23:06 <@kanzure> owl? the format? 23:07 < venturecommunism> the concept that maybe even though it's been however many decades in the making we're near some useful applications of linked data 23:07 < venturecommunism> i dunno your stance on it 23:07 <@kanzure> i think it's overkill. 23:07 <@kanzure> do you have any experience making any packages for any system ever? 23:07 < venturecommunism> software? 23:08 <@kanzure> sure 23:08 < venturecommunism> some 23:08 <@kanzure> like what? 23:08 < venturecommunism> i was a drupal developer for a bunch of years 23:08 <@kanzure> i'm sorry. 23:08 < venturecommunism> i've moved on as you can see 23:08 <@kanzure> i don't think drupal has a sane packaging system, but i haven't looked in a few years. 23:08 < venturecommunism> meteor has a great one 23:09 < venturecommunism> in the making 23:09 <@kanzure> i recommend looking into nodejs modules since you seem to like those. 23:09 <@kanzure> then move on to looking at how debian packages work. 23:09 <@kanzure> including their maintainers and the maintainers' motivations. 23:10 < venturecommunism> utter specificity to induce laborless onboarding of small contributions? 23:10 < venturecommunism> DAGs 23:12 < venturecommunism> clear divisions between versions so people don't plan half the parts from version .8 and half the parts from 1.2 23:15 < venturecommunism> i mean i could probably get shapeoko into yaml 23:15 < venturecommunism> if you think it's worth it 23:15 <@kanzure> there might be a simpler solution than yaml 23:15 <@kanzure> i think it would be more useful to review the current tools and figure out simpler, smaller solutions for specific problems. 23:16 <@kanzure> but if you hate that then yes a package of shapeoko would be nice 23:16 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16 < venturecommunism> well yaml's pretty easy, i don't know what would be simpler 23:16 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:16 <@kanzure> just because it's easy doesn't mean it's a good idea 23:16 <@kanzure> there were these terrible objects that we sprinkled into the yaml files 23:16 <@kanzure> and nobody called me out on it 23:16 <@kanzure> you people are all awful 23:17 < venturecommunism> i'm not even sure we should be doing shapeoko, i'm open to suggestions 23:17 < venturecommunism> very 23:18 < venturecommunism> the purpose is to create paid work for people hit by sandy, basically 23:18 <@kanzure> .. what? 23:18 < venturecommunism> all kinds of intermediate purposes to other goals here but we have some occupy sandy resources, physical spaces, money 23:19 < venturecommunism> masses of people who would be motivated by a collaborative open hardware production run 23:19 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: I've been reading some of "Molecular Biology of a Cell" 23:20 < AshleyWaffle> are the complicated terms at the beginning explained later? 23:20 < AshleyWaffle> or is there something else I should read first that better explains some of that 23:21 < yashgaroth> can you give an example of a term 23:21 <@kanzure> you should ask better questions like including the words that you hate 23:21 <@kanzure> biology is basically science barf and it takes a while to learn how to read it 23:22 < AshleyWaffle> yashgaroth: "amino acids, sugars, and the purines and pyrimidines required to make nucleotides." 23:22 < AshleyWaffle> I'm aware that amino acids are the building blocks of proteins 23:22 < AshleyWaffle> and I know sugars are used in DNA (right?) 23:22 < AshleyWaffle> I'm missing the rest 23:23 < yashgaroth> well try reading up on the relevant wikipedia articles when you get stuck 23:23 < AshleyWaffle> okay 23:23 < AshleyWaffle> thanks 23:23 < yashgaroth> I'd recommend a chemistry textbook, but that shit's even worse than bio 23:23 <@kanzure> no way. it tends to be better organized. 23:24 <@kanzure> purines and pyramidines are just the two classes of complementary base pair nucleotide 23:26 <@kanzure> btw there are also thousands of youtube videos about these 23:26 < AshleyWaffle> I think I'm getting the "basic idea" so far though: on the violent/chaotic early Earth, so many crazy chemical reactions were able to occur that inevitably SOMEWHERE and in all that time, some autocatylitic molecules had to do better than their competitors. it seems to refer to these as sort of semi-alive. 23:26 < AshleyWaffle> ah 23:26 < AshleyWaffle> off to youtube with me 23:27 < venturecommunism> kanzure: is there an equivalent concept to a URI in skdb? 23:28 < venturecommunism> does the file name "costco_tote_dimensions" encode machine readable information itself? 23:28 <@kanzure> i think that is a bad file name 23:28 < venturecommunism> wouldn't that be an i18n problem? 23:28 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: did that summary sound about right so far? 23:28 <@kanzure> here's the formal skdb spec http://gnusha.org/skdb/package_spec.html 23:28 <@kanzure> if you have a better idea for a minimal packaging tool then speak up 23:29 < venturecommunism> JSON-LD? 23:29 <@kanzure> AshleyWaffle: sort of. i would read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_world_hypothesis if you cared about that. 23:29 < venturecommunism> have an OWL ontology sitting there in theory but really use JSON-LD for most applications 23:29 <@kanzure> i don't think an ontology should be necessary. 23:30 < venturecommunism> without URIs i could imagine coming across problems 23:30 < venturecommunism> anyway reading the spec 23:30 <@kanzure> why 23:31 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: it does intrigue me 23:31 < venturecommunism> the universality of the resource indicator. that if the canonical link goes down it can be mirrored in a convenient way, consumed by web apps, etc. 23:31 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: how much into unschooling are you? 23:31 < venturecommunism> makes the data more useful to interoperate with the rest of linked data potentially 23:32 < AshleyWaffle> not only that, how much else have I been doing wrong (eg. instinct to read books in order) 23:34 <@kanzure> AshleyWaffle: i don't really know much about unschooling. i just don't like schools. they tend to be broken. 23:34 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:34 <@kanzure> venturecommunism: debian packages seem to work just fine without requiring explicit uris. 23:35 < venturecommunism> conary is better, and it's made better by rpath although it's proprietary, because they do this kind of thing 23:35 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: what's the alternative, specifically? 23:35 <@kanzure> AshleyWaffle: learning whatever you want whenever you want to ? 23:35 < AshleyWaffle> sounds about right 23:36 < AshleyWaffle> but, if you just bounce around from thing to thing, how can you produce any productive results? 23:36 -!- kmo [~kmo@77-254-68-224.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:36 -!- kmo [~kmo@77-254-68-224.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Changing host] 23:36 -!- kmo [~kmo@unaffiliated/kmo] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:36 < venturecommunism> AshleyWaffle: it's better to bounce around as required than to sit for hours needlessly 23:36 < AshleyWaffle> That I agree with 23:36 <@kanzure> the same can be asked about schools. those curriculums are the weakest shit i've ever had the displeasure of being subjected to. 23:37 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: Agreed 23:37 < AshleyWaffle> So if schools are bad 23:37 < AshleyWaffle> And "bouncing around" can also be disorganized 23:37 < AshleyWaffle> What remains? 23:37 <@kanzure> i don't care about bouncing around. 23:38 < AshleyWaffle> What do you mean? 23:38 <@kanzure> is it really so bad that you had to use a dictionary to lookup nucleotide? 23:39 < AshleyWaffle> no 23:40 <@kanzure> also the synthetic biology book on that list might be more interesting to you since the author has a more programming perspective 23:40 <@kanzure> but don't be confused: any synthetic biology person that tells you cells are like computers are liars and should be hanged 23:40 < AshleyWaffle> I'm also guessing that since we're looking at non-life, but fairly complex, molecules gaining complexity 23:40 <@kanzure> then move on to http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/ 23:40 < AshleyWaffle> okay 23:41 < venturecommunism> kanzure: what about building a so-called serious game to mimick a hardware package management system 23:41 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:42 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:42 < venturecommunism> or model or utilize or consume, whatever word you want to use 23:42 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: Um, it's formatted weirdly on my pdf reader... let me try with evince instead 23:42 -!- Charlie [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:43 -!- kmo [~kmo@unaffiliated/kmo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:44 < AshleyWaffle> there we go, it works in evince 23:44 < venturecommunism> woot, evince 23:45 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+ri] by kanzure 23:45 <@kanzure> oh god what 23:46 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-r] by kanzure 23:46 < AshleyWaffle> what are those modes? 23:46 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-i] by kanzure 23:46 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o archels] by kanzure 23:46 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o ParahSailin] by kanzure 23:46 * kanzure sleeps 23:48 <@kanzure> http://googleblog.blogspot.in/2013/04/fighting-human-trafficking.html 23:49 <@kanzure> ok now sleep 23:50 < AshleyWaffle> kanzure: night 23:55 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:57 -!- makoLime [~mako@103-9-42-32.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Thu Apr 11 00:00:54 2013