--- Log opened Thu Apr 11 00:00:54 2013
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00:51 <@archels> kanzure: re neuroml-tech, it's not super-interesting if you're not actively involved with NeuroML
00:52 <@archels> oh hey, ops. thanks
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01:19 <@kanzure> ah that sucks
01:25 < eleitl> neuroml design?
01:25 < eleitl> where does an uploader go for the meat?
01:31 <@kanzure> i've considered staking out anders' house and just taking copies of his hard drives.
01:31 <@kanzure> "considered".. for a second or two. not much longer.
01:38 < eleitl> Anders will be probably happy to share his paper stash.
01:38 <@kanzure> but he turned to the dark side
01:38 < eleitl> why, ivory tower?
01:39 <@kanzure> philosophy
01:39 <@kanzure> bostrom
01:40 < eleitl> he thinks he can get more traction there, plus, this gives him a meal ticket
01:45 <@archels> nice pun, eleitl :)
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02:15 <@kanzure> so... here's a weird idea. all of those scammy scam publishers that accept any articles.
02:15 <@kanzure> http://scholarlyoa.com/publishers/
02:15 <@kanzure> what about just submitting other papers?
02:15 <@kanzure> and then making them host the content.
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02:26 <@archels> "CONFAB JOURNALS" haha
02:28 <@archels> they probably won't have much of a spine when IOP comes knocking on *their* door
02:49 < eleitl> distibuted p2p cryptosystems can take care of the location problem
02:49 < eleitl> unless they themselves are declared illegal
02:49 < eleitl> at which point you build a botnet, and live happily ever after
02:50 <@archels> declared illegal by whom, the United Nations?
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02:51 < eleitl> goverments can collude well enough, if greased sufficiently
02:52 < eleitl> and they will be greased sufficiently
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02:52 < eleitl> disrupting known traffic only gives you that much leverage
02:52 < eleitl> you have to deter as well, orelse you're fucked
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02:53 < eleitl> but, being a victim of a botnet won't get you beheaded. in most countries.
02:55 < eleitl> let us praise the crappy programmers, who made this possible
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06:05 < strangewarp> Hmm
06:05 < strangewarp> http://robrhinehart.com/?p=474 - Another update on Soylent, this time detailing bioavailability and CR
06:07 < strangewarp> Also: Skeptics' Guide To The Universe has declared that Soylent is inferior to Ensure, because Ensure was approved by the FDA and Soylent wasn't. Reddit Skepticism as its finest, IMO
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06:56 < strages_work> how do I use the bot for retrieving papers?
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06:59 < eleitl> paperbot: http://blah.net
06:59 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/867c36c22fd0c844bf00113fe405f204.txt
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07:12 < strages_work> it pulls papers from behind paywalls or I have to provide a direct link to the paper and it's just for archiving papers in one place?
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10:44 <@kanzure> strages_work: it will figure it out
10:44 <@kanzure> hashedAI: hi
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10:46 <@kanzure> http://digitheadslabnotebook.blogspot.com/2013/04/hivebio-diy-biology-lab-for-seattle.html
10:47 <@kanzure> https://www.microryza.com/projects/seattle-biohacker-space/updates
10:48 <@kanzure> "I am the Communications Manager for the Washington Biotechnology and Biomedical Association (WBBA). We are very interested in working with you to promote BioHive and your story to the Pacific Northwest life sciences community."
10:48 <@kanzure> http://washbio.org/
10:56 < strages_work> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ett.2632/
10:56 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/a34d03931f76a63e025177baee7c3f40.txt
10:57 < strages_work> hmm that's not what I needed
11:05 <@kanzure> strages_work: sometimes paperbot can't get a paper. sorry.
11:05 <@kanzure> firefox is getting a network inspector http://bits.potch.me/netpanel.png
11:05 < strages_work> thanks anyways, off to /r/scholar I go
11:06 <@kanzure> haha script kiddies are still alive http://www.hackforums.net/ (click the "hacking" tab)
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11:20 <@ParahSailin> paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es3038824
11:20 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Energy%20Balance%20of%20the%20Global%20Photovoltaic%20%28PV%29%20Industry%20-%20Is%20the%20PV%20Industry%20a%20Net%20Electricity%20Producer%3F.pdf
11:32 <@kanzure> when i grow up i want to be a script kiddie
11:36 < venturecommunism> kanzure: http://collabcad.venturecommunism.com:8000 ever seen shapesmith?
11:37 <@kanzure> yes i've seen shapesmith
11:37 <@kanzure> i wish he would release his opencascade bindings
11:37 < venturecommunism> what do you think?
11:37 < venturecommunism> he's moving from OCC
11:37 < venturecommunism> to all javascript
11:37 <@kanzure> has he written nurbs intersection things then?
11:38 < venturecommunism> i don't know how far along he is
11:38 < venturecommunism> it won't be able to do full CAD but it'll do STL
11:38 <@kanzure> not interested
11:38 < venturecommunism> (or something)
11:38 <@kanzure> he is dumb for choosing STL-only
11:38 <@kanzure> his current work is better than that
11:38 < venturecommunism> i think the major advantage is the realtime collaborative, the human component here
11:38 <@kanzure> he already had that in the first place
11:39 <@kanzure> you are very bad at lying
11:39 < venturecommunism> no he has never had collaborative in realtime
11:39 < venturecommunism> and you are very stupid and obstinate
11:39 <@kanzure> what?
11:39 <@kanzure> he had a client that communicated with the server
11:39 <@kanzure> that's collaboration
11:39 < venturecommunism> realtime collaboration means i see in realtime what you're doing
11:39 <@kanzure> that's really not a problem
11:40 < venturecommunism> ok
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11:45 < venturecommunism> well for people who actually think people should collaborate on open source hardware documentation, the open hardware documentation gathering is happening soon http://opensourcewarehouse.org
11:46 <@kanzure> have you read their emails about that?
11:47 <@kanzure> http://lists.oshwa.org/pipermail/discuss/2013-March/thread.html
11:47 <@kanzure> this is also where OSE revealed their gross incompetence
11:47 < venturecommunism> i think everyone who doesn't have an event like this is grossly incompetent
11:48 < venturecommunism> but thanks for the link
11:48 <@kanzure> haha because technical work can only happen in person? that's bullshit.
11:48 <@kanzure> they also demonstrated- in those emails- a surprising lack of knowledge about existing and theoretical tools for packaging, documenting and developing open source hardware
11:49 <@kanzure> although the electronics people seemed to have some alright knowledge, like nate from sparkfun
11:49 < venturecommunism> i see you pointing and laughing at ignorance more than i see you stepping in to remedy it
11:49 <@kanzure> fuck you, i pointed you to my emails where i was more than thorough
11:50 <@kanzure> maybe you just suck at reading?
11:51 <@kanzure> i think it's more likely that you don't like the answers i give you
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11:52 < venturecommunism> grepping the logs here. i assume you mean http://gnusha.org/skdb ?
11:52 <@kanzure> huh? no i mean the links i just gave you
11:52 < venturecommunism> either that or biopapers, i don't see a lot of other candidates
11:52 <@kanzure> http://lists.oshwa.org/pipermail/discuss/2013-March/thread.html
11:52 <@kanzure> it was like four minutes ago wtf
11:52 < venturecommunism> oh i didn't realize that was where the solution was kept. just the gross ignorance
11:53 <@kanzure> it's pretty obvious my name is listed on that page. but i would recommend reading all of the emails in context.
11:53 <@kanzure> actually that might be hard to do from that thread.html view
11:54 <@kanzure> because emails are in thread/reply order, rather than chronological order
11:54 < eudoxia> hello venturecommunism
11:54 < eudoxia> so kanz, it's pretty clear you don't like OSE
11:54 <@kanzure> i think marcin is great but i think he could do better
11:54 < eudoxia> but what about defdist?
11:54 <@kanzure> i think their zip file is silly?
11:55 <@kanzure> better than no zip file i guess
11:55 < eudoxia> apparently they are working on 'git backed' stuff
11:56 <@kanzure> i'm not really sure how defense distributed works. there does seem to be some cad models laying around and some active participants. but who is maintaining each of these projects? is it just model-and-dump? i haven't really investigated.
11:56 < eudoxia> i think it's model and dump
11:56 <@kanzure> seems that thingiverse follows that strategy too
11:57 <@kanzure> and possibly also upverter
11:57 < eudoxia> the 'notes' i think mirrors a readme.txt file in each repo (no markup)
11:57 < eudoxia> right now it's just as bad but wilson seems to want to improve it
11:57 <@kanzure> show?
11:57 < eudoxia> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO54gzfite4
11:57 <@kanzure> .title
11:58 < yoleaux> DEFCAD.com - YouTube
11:58 <@kanzure> sigh
11:58 < eudoxia> i'm sorry there's no transcript
11:58 < eudoxia> it's also pretty silly at times
11:58 <@kanzure> why oh why is video
11:59 <@kanzure> back in my day we wrote down what we wanted to say
11:59 <@kanzure> and then people would read those things
12:00 < eudoxia> i know you don't want to tell me
12:00 <@kanzure> huh?
12:00 < eudoxia> anyways some of the screenshots show a 'fork' button
12:00 < eudoxia> i guess that's moving in the right direction
12:00 <@kanzure> what is it that i don't want to tell you?
12:01 < eudoxia> maybe you should convince him to use skdb as the backend
12:01 < eudoxia> you don't need to tell me you'd rather hate text than video
12:01 <@kanzure> i don't think so. i think skdb should be broken up into smaller tools. also it needs more people reviewing the spec and proposing better ways to go about doing this.
12:01 < eudoxia> i mean, you don't need* to tell me
12:01 < eudoxia> derp
12:01 <@kanzure> people keep saying "put the BOM in a list in a text file called bom.txt" but they never bother to try to formalize that or make tools around it or something
12:02 <@kanzure> i wonder if octopart has changed their position on how much involvement they would prefer
12:02 <@kanzure> there used to be some random skdb-octopart integration
12:03 <@kanzure> something about using their schema/names for some parts because they seemed to have naming down alright? i might be wrong.
12:03 < eudoxia> https://github.com/kanzure/skdb/blob/master/octopart.py ?
12:04 <@kanzure> this was back when octopart wasn't making any money hehe
12:04 <@kanzure> s/hehe/heh
12:05 <@kanzure> hm they have released a v3 api
12:05 <@kanzure> http://octopart.com/api/docs/v3/overview
12:05 <@kanzure> "The Octopart API is the easiest way for developers to access up-to-date pricing and availability information for electronic components from distributors around the world. Using the Octopart API, you can access stocking information, price breaks, lead times, minimum order quantities and much more information from over 100 distributors including Digi-Key, Mouser, Newark, Premier Farnell, Avnet, Arrow, RS Components, Allied Electronics, Future ...
12:05 <@kanzure> ... Electronics, Grainger and many others."
12:06 <@kanzure> wtf "The Octopart API v3 will be free to use until June 30, 2013. The pricing information below will be effective starting July 1, 2013."
12:06 <@kanzure> "The Octopart API uses simple pay-as-you-go pricing so that you can control your costs and pay only for the resources you consume. You can track usage from your Dashboard. Your credit card will be charged monthly based on your usage according to the following pricing chart:"
12:06 <@kanzure> well that's really disappointing
12:06 < eudoxia> aw fuck it
12:06 <@kanzure> "To maintain performance of the API there is a rate limit of 3 HTTP requests/second per IP address. If your application requires a higher rate limit please email us to inquire about volume pricing and service level agreements (api@octopart.com)."
12:06 <@kanzure> "The Octopart API makes it incredibly easy to do partnumber lookups. Using the "parts/match" method you can search for parts by manufacturer part number (mpn) or distributor part number (sku) and even limit your results to a particular manufacturer or distributor. You can also make up to 20 queries simultaneously which makes it very easy to do BOM matching:"
12:07 <@kanzure> wtf they do click tracking? http://octopart-clicks.com/click/vptrack?ak=EXAMPLE_KEY&sig=0a9f49b&vpid=44181590
12:07 <@kanzure> whcih redirects to http://rcfreelance.com/searchresults.php?email=websales@rcfreelance.com&partnumber=206062-1
12:07 <@kanzure> *which
12:07 <@kanzure> ok octopart has gotten weird
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12:10 <@kanzure> their api seems to respond with PriceOffer objects for electronic components, but i don't see a way to purchase items automatically? lame.
12:13 <@kanzure> also, someone bothered to reverse an attack on someone's bitcoin wallet (vector was java applet then exe) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5531245
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12:56 < venturecommunism> instead of octopart what about octopost http://octopost.me
12:57 < eudoxia> >the most radically disruptive project in the history of telecommunications!
12:57 < eudoxia> >€9,999,999,999
12:57 < venturecommunism> thats true
12:58 < eudoxia> wait a second... is this an elaborate joke?
12:58 < venturecommunism> if it's a joke then why is it so elaborate?
12:59 < eudoxia> to make it more believable duh
13:00 < venturecommunism> they offer a way to physically output sans serif fonts onto pictures of cats and then transport them using a global network of pneumatic tubes that is compliant with all national and internation trade and security agreements and whose centralized topograpy and Deep Capsule Inspection (tm) ensures optimum efficiency. i don't see whats funny about that
13:00 < eudoxia> yeah it's a joke
13:01 < chris_99> indeed
13:02 <@kanzure> i hate reddit
13:02 <@kanzure> i blame reddit for venturecommunism believing that
13:03 < eudoxia> oh kanz he was just joking
13:03 <@kanzure> according to the text on his site he is not joking
13:04 <@kanzure> he genuinely believes in radical social flash mob javascripting
13:04 < eudoxia> re flash mobs
13:04 < venturecommunism> kanzure: javascript not involved in that btw
13:04 < eudoxia> have those worked for OSE?
13:05 <@kanzure> no amount of flash mobness is going to undo the damage their wiki has caused them
13:05 < venturecommunism> the idea has nothing to do with javascript, it has to do with getting product pre-orders using an open source kickstarter clone, buying parts, and then setting up a mutual credit system for supply chain management
13:07 < venturecommunism> the question is whether there's some open source hardware product out there for which this is a good idea, whether it's shapeoko or not
13:11 < nmz787> kanzure: re cells as computers, when i stopped by cambrian I mentioned that discussion to Anselm and he said that eventually with complex enough computers (like definitely quantum computers) we should get much closer to the programming cells ideal
13:12 < nmz787> or rather get closer to understanding cells like programmtic things
13:14 < venturecommunism> cells, like automata, wolfram NKOS?
13:15 < eudoxia> i think they're talking about actual cells
13:17 < venturecommunism> biological bootstrap nanotech?
13:23 <@kanzure> nmz787: i don't think quantum computing would mean programmable cells. maybe he is going for a simulation angle? "if we can simulate it a bunch, then maybe we can figure out something that is close to programming." seems like hand waving to me though.
13:23 <@kanzure> additional simulation could help, though
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13:51 < nmz787> no it was simply a conversation about elucuidating the logic of the cell
13:51 < nmz787> not actually manipulating it
13:52 < nmz787> simulation i guess would come right after discovering/understanding the logic
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14:47 < jrayhawk> nmz787: http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/cmasterjohn/2013/04/10/does-carnitine-from-red-meat-contribute-to-heart-disease-through-intestinal-bacterial-metabolism-to-tmao/
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14:53 < nmz787> jrayhawk: link isn't working for me
14:53 < nmz787> the date alone worked
14:53 < nmz787> oh, weird, i must have copied it wrong
14:56 < nmz787> jrayhawk: illuminati trying to control lifespan by misdirecting dietary info?
14:58 < jrayhawk> if by "illuminati" you mean "entrenched political and economic interests" and by "lifespan" you mean "their own income"
15:00 < jrayhawk> though there's some correlation there
15:00 < jrayhawk> sick people are excellent economic opportunities
15:00 < jrayhawk> as demonstrated by a ten billion dollar statin industry
15:03 < nmz787> kanzure: i just got an issue of Nature Methods in print from my mailbox!
15:03 < nmz787> and one addressed too you too!
15:03 < nmz787> and another addressed to a friend I sent that signup link to
15:04 < nmz787> mine says my name twice, yours says your name once and my name once, the other sayd my friends name and my name both once
15:04 < nmz787> and all my address
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15:11 < nmz787> this is interesting too https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5529202
15:11 < nmz787> 'US rice imports 'contain harmful levels of lead' (bbc.co.uk)'
15:11 < nmz787> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22099990
15:11 < nmz787> i havent looked for the original article yet though
15:15 <@ParahSailin> i thought it was arsenic
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15:22 <@ParahSailin> oh, rice imports
15:23 <@kanzure> nmz787: haha why is it all going to you though?
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15:56 < nmz787> kanzure: beats me
15:59 < nmz787> "Besides this, this same group has previously shown that the enzyme responsible for converting trimethylamine to TMAO is suppressed by androgens, and its activity is low in males compared to females. Thus, comparing a female omnivore to a male vegan is misleading."
16:02 < nmz787> "While this may indicate that meat-eaters as a group generate more TMAO from supplemental carnitine than vegetarians, it is somewhat unclear whether this experiment was confounded by antibiotic treatment, and the authors do not explain whether the result is driven by a single outlier or a fundamental gender difference, neither do they show any results indicating that the total amount of TMAO in the blood (instead of just isotopically labeled TMAO) in
16:02 < nmz787> wait doesn't he mean sex instead of gender?
16:03 < nmz787> isn't gender supposed to be the societal/chosen trait that's /influenced/ by sex?
16:04 < nmz787> "Suppose each mouse drinks about 5 milliliters of water per day. This would provide 65 milligrams of carnitine per day, more than a third of what could be obtained from eating an eight-ounce steak. Adjusting for body weight, this is like a human eating a thousand steaks per day. This is beyond the capacity of even the most die-hard meat-lovers."
16:05 < jrayhawk> i can take it
16:05 < jrayhawk> bring it on
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16:08 < jrayhawk> gender, sex, and karyotype are all messy categories and fighting about their definitions and interrelations is at this point something i would only expect a trans activist to do
16:09 < jrayhawk> and masterjohn already has lots of other fights to put his weight behind
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16:36 < eudoxia> americans, why are you at defcon 3
16:36 < eudoxia> has SIAI been nuked yet?
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16:45 < jrayhawk> SIAI sold out its branding and changed to MIRI.
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17:06 <@fenn> nmz787: you had lead poisoning?
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17:21 <@kanzure> nmz787: still receiving hilarious things in the mail ?
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17:35 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: actually i've been sort of happy about how we don't seem to be getting any of the SIAI brand refugees. hopefully lesswrong will continue to absorb them?
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17:36 < brownies> what's SIAI?
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18:11 <@kanzure> brownies: siai is singularity institute for artificial intelligence
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18:30 < nmz787> lol, I thought it was an anagram for ASIA
18:30 < nmz787> the continent
18:30 < nmz787> but then that doesn't work
18:30 < nmz787> i'm bad at anagramming
18:31 < nmz787> fenn: yes, blood filtering when i was a kid using chelators
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19:02 < n_bentha> herp derp
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19:18 < nmz787> kanzure: which day were we playing with that publishers free signup thing
19:20 <@kanzure> nmz787: 2013-02-13
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22:13 < juri_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04/12/dvd_player_hiv_blood_test/
22:13 < Adifex> juri: hacking at it's finest :D
22:33 <@kanzure> its.
22:36 < Adifex> Oh god. Right.
22:36 < Adifex> I hate people like me :D
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22:43 < brownies> whoa. that is impressive.
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--- Log closed Fri Apr 12 00:00:55 2013