--- Log opened Fri Apr 19 00:00:02 2013
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01:20 < eleitl> goddamnit this SEPA crap, lost another 40 EUR due to transfer lag
01:20 < eleitl> you just can't trade if the platforms are shit
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01:57 < kanzure> spam is getting even stranger " am the sales manager of Hangzhou Fenghe Bio-technology Co., Ltd. We are the manufacturer of APIs and feed additives. We specializes in manufacturing Dinitolmide,Nicarbazine,Robenidine HCl,Clopidol and Enramycin Premix for many years. Now, I am very glad to send this mail to you."
01:57 < kanzure> APIs, you say..
02:03 < eleitl> there must be a market for highly targeted spam
02:03 < eleitl> but, that's already occupied by Google and Fecesbook
02:23 < nmz787> kanzure: really that's not just some horrible-english-speaking chinese company from alibaba?
02:24 < kanzure> just because they are on alibaba doesn't mean they don't send out spam
02:24 < nmz787> http://www.acronymfinder.com/API.html
02:24 < nmz787> **APIActive Pharma Ingredient
02:24 < nmz787> Advanced Pharmaceutical Ingredients
02:25 < nmz787> heh, Advanced Pharmaceutical Ingredients
02:25 < nmz787> i mean Automated Pellet Inspection
02:25 < nmz787> definitely something that needed automated
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02:33 < eleitl> yeah, I'm dabbling in pharmaceuticals (supplements) and automation is key there
02:34 < eleitl> plus, eliminate the human as source of contamination
02:34 < kanzure> aren't the margins really shit in that business?
02:35 < eleitl> if you look at the LEF prices, I strongly suspect that it's a money printing machine
02:35 < kanzure> well sure if you attach whatever claims you want to the products
02:36 < eleitl> LEF isn't doing that, they're just science-backed
02:36 < eleitl> everybody else is selling thin gruel for low, low prices
02:36 < kanzure> also in that market there's a lot of misinformation about pricing
02:36 < kanzure> one site has some custom gel pills for $40 another is selling in bulk for $5
02:37 < kanzure> (depending on supplement of course)
02:37 < eleitl> another niche is personalized pharmaceuticals
02:37 < kanzure> i was working on a search engine that scraped nootropics pricing information
02:37 < eleitl> we need to rev up that part after we've made LEF work
02:37 < eleitl> LEF is difficult to resell, since they're trying to vaccuum up your customers
02:38 < kanzure> considered a daily deal format for a few minutes.. couldn't make the numbers work favorably for supplements.
02:38 < eleitl> many LEF member prices are below reseller prices. Think about that for a moment.
02:38 < kanzure> i think it was LEF that was paying for hplusmagazine advertising space in obscene amounts
02:40 < eleitl> hmm
02:40 < kanzure> eleitl: what is the status of the cypherpunks list? is perry's the only one running? it looks dead.
02:40 < eleitl> al-quaeda.net
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02:40 < kanzure> does al-quaeda apply those recommended procmail filters?
02:40 < eleitl>  cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net is the only node that works
02:41 < eleitl> no idea, never got any spam from there
02:41 < kanzure> i was telling fenn the other day that merkle is technically more popular for his work in public key cryptography than his work in nanotechnology (which is hard/weird to remember sometimes)
02:42 < kanzure> it also looks like there's been a drop of discussion on the cryptography list and cypherpunks list, at least in terms of working code. is this accurate?
02:43 < eleitl> yes, there's a slow decline in volume and quality
02:43 < kanzure> lovely.
02:43 < eleitl> after Perry's list went down the second list never quite got up to previous standard
02:43 < kanzure> perry seems like an ok moderator
02:43 < eleitl> re Satoshi, guy is definitely not Japanese, and there have been a lot of speculation, with no conclusive results
02:44 < eleitl> unmasking him will be likely quite difficult, unless he slipped up
02:44 < eleitl> chances are, you already know Satoshi
02:44 < kanzure> his style of writing is very familiar
02:45 < kanzure> some of the phrases he tends to use can be traced back to these mailing list archives from others
02:45 < kanzure> but i don't have complete archives
02:46 < kanzure> he also alliterates sometimes even though he is trying not to
02:49 < kanzure> and he says things like "sorry to be a wet blanket" which turns out to be uncommon
02:49 < kanzure> most people say "sorry to be a wet blanket but"
02:50 < eleitl> you can probably identify him with phrase analysis
02:50 < eleitl> it would be probably not a good idea to
02:50 < kanzure> i have an index of unique phrases that he has written
02:50 < eleitl> he has his reasons to fly under radar
02:50 < kanzure> and various histograms of his posting time
02:50 < eleitl> is he in the US time zone?
02:50 < kanzure> i was thinking i would extract the posting-time histories of people on cryptography/cypherpunks
02:50 < kanzure> could be. might also be UK something like GMT -4.
02:51 < chris_99> how do you know he's not Japanese eleitl
02:51 < kanzure> if he's japanese then he's probably kenji soita. but i doubt it.
02:51 < eleitl> because others have analyzed his speech, and pegged him to a specific education cluster
02:51 < kanzure> he is very obviously someone who takes cypherpunk to heart
02:51 < eleitl> ask NSA. they know, for sure :)
02:51 < kanzure> he speaks their language very carefully
02:52 < eleitl> there are 3-4 likely candidates for who he might be
02:52 < eleitl> but, why care? he did good.
02:53 < kanzure> adjudicate. nobody uses "adjudicate".
02:53 < eleitl> Geeks use language in whatever way they li.e
02:53 < brownies> whoa, satoshi whatshisface is an alias? hm, i had no idea.
02:54 < kanzure> sopping shenanigans somehow, the problem is that, anywhere near as large as gnutella less and less frequently the longer ago it was independently analysed to be screaming hot
02:54 < kanzure> oh no now i will be identified as satoshi
02:54 < eleitl> Markov chain?
02:54 < kanzure> nah
02:54 < eleitl> if you have a mailbox full of Satoshi I would like to have a copy, please
02:55 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin-satoshi/bitcoin-satoshi.zip
02:55 < eleitl> Thanks!
02:56 < fenn> szabo identifies "the failure of the cypherpunk program" as being due to the inability to enforce decentralized/anonymous contracts
02:56 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin-satoshi/phrases.txt
02:56 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin-satoshi/datetimes.yaml
02:56 < chris_99> what makes you think it could only be 4 people out of interest eleitl
02:57 < eleitl> 3-4 most likely candidates. I have no particular interest in unmasking the guy.
02:57 < eleitl> Just reporting the gossip.
02:57 < kanzure> eugen has very specific knowledge of individuals in the cryptopunk scene
02:57 < fenn> i still don't get why we never achieved a mainstream trust network
02:58 < eleitl> most cypherpunks are useless
02:58 < kanzure> elaborate
02:58 < eleitl> but a few compensate for the rest of them
02:58 < kanzure> there's something like 2000 subscribers?
02:58 < eleitl> mostly feds, probably
02:58 < eleitl> feds and fanboys
02:59 < kanzure> he probably left identifying information in outgoing emails in 1995-1999
03:00 < kanzure> i think it's an interesting test of anonymization and pseudonymity
03:00 < kanzure> if one of these damned cypherpunks can be defeated with simple phrase analysis and timing attacks, we're doomed.
03:00 < fenn> meh just run it through google translate a couple times
03:00 < eleitl> I doubt he was trying that hard
03:00 < fenn> thesaurizer
03:00 < eleitl> it's more about plausible deniability
03:01 < kanzure> there are some annoying inconsistencies though. TOR. Tor..
03:01 < kanzure> "screaming hot" who the heck in japan says that. unlikely.
03:01 < eleitl> oh, he said TOR and Tor?
03:01 < kanzure> yeah
03:01 < eleitl> this would lend credence to the team theory
03:01 < kanzure> no
03:01 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin-satoshi/phrases.txt
03:01 < eleitl> unless he would be fucking with it deliberatey
03:02 < kanzure> i used to switch between american/british spellings of words but that was only because i was being careless
03:02 < kanzure> not because i am a team
03:02 < eleitl> which IRC channel was that?
03:02 < kanzure> these were his bitcointalk.org posts
03:02 < kanzure> and some emails and some comments in bitcoin-0.1.0.rar
03:03 < eleitl> did you try to match him with the usual suspect list yet?
03:03 < kanzure> i tried based on some googling restricted to cypherpunk/cryptology but the list didn't narrow down much
03:04 < kanzure> i also have his activity on a mailing list called p2presearch which has a public list of subscribers. so he might be one of those other subscribers.
03:04 < eleitl> was Wei Dai there?
03:04 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin-satoshi/p2p-research-members.txt
03:04 < eleitl> I don't think he's Hal Finney
03:05 < kanzure> p2presearch is not the sort of list to attract hal or wei
03:05 < eleitl> no, it was largely waffle
03:05 < kanzure> it's much more.. uh. i would call it low signal.
03:05 < kanzure> i don't know if you remember but a few years ago on open manufacturing there was a troll named marc fawzi
03:05 < kanzure> and i had to ban him
03:05 < kanzure> well it turns out marc posted a lot to p2presearch
03:05 < kanzure> and satoshi speaks favorably of marc's ideas
03:06 < kanzure> but he might have just recently subscribed and read some of the emails too, so either way..
03:06 < eleitl> so many false alleys to chase down
03:07 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin-satoshi/email-p2presearch-2009-02-13-023120.txt
03:07 < kanzure> well i think phrase analysis is the best bet
03:07 < kanzure> given an archive of old 90s email including timestamps i think it would be possible to find some interesting suspects
03:07 < kanzure> also with headers, that would be nice.
03:08 < eleitl> but you can't prove anything, and that's how it is supposed to be
03:08 < kanzure> you can't prove that i can't prove anything.
03:08 < eleitl> nobody has been arrested based on a guess
03:09 < eleitl> you might well know it's him, but unless he can show his wallet.dat you can't know it's him
03:09 < kanzure> there might be other forms of evidence
03:09 < kanzure> for instance, i might have the suspect's password
03:09 < eleitl> forensic analysis of his hardware
03:10 < eleitl> I doubt he's that sloppy
03:10 < fenn> can you still be arrested for writing a computer program that generates numbers?
03:10 < kanzure> (but i would only be able to confirm that if i have that possible suspect from the old 90s emails)
03:11 < fenn> i mean what would the charges be
03:11 < kanzure> why would you charge him with anything? bah.
03:11 < fenn> because you're a vindictive asshole
03:11 < eleitl> I've lost a bit of emails from the 1990s
03:12 < eleitl> besides, these would be mixed with personal email, so I wouldn't be able to give them to you even if I would find them
03:13 < kanzure> haha i wonder if it's jim choate. that would be hilarious.
03:13 < kanzure> i was hoping it was anders so that i wouldn't have to be disappointed in him anymore.
03:13 < eleitl> Choate doesn't have the skill or the language capability
03:13 < kanzure> choate lives around here somewhere, i see him on the local mailing lists once in a while. it's cute.
03:14 < eleitl> it's funny how you could implement AP today, with existing tools
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03:14 < kanzure> AP?
03:14 < eleitl> Assassination Politics
03:14 < eleitl> but needs moar laundering
03:15 < kanzure> also wtf why do you know jim choate. he's just a local loony sorta.
03:16 < eleitl> Sorry, confused Choate with Bell.
03:16 < eleitl> I know Choate via cpunks of 1990s.
03:16 < kanzure> well you should at least search your archives for "fairly satisfactorily". that's the sort of string to stand out.
03:16 < eleitl> in case I find these, I'll grep that
03:17 < fenn> how did you generate this phrase list anyway?
03:17 < kanzure> i was bored and i read everything satoshi wrote
03:17 < kanzure> do not judge me :(
03:18 < eleitl> since you already read anything Satoshi, any interesting ideas?
03:19 < kanzure> i haven't read his paper.
03:19 < kanzure> i figured a paper would be sufficiently butchered to not be recognizable.
03:21 < kanzure> the surface area can be significantly reduced just by collecting a list of all subscribers to these mailing lists
03:22 < kanzure> his use of irc is a little alarming, i admit, because it means either he has some background in botnets (or he sat around until he genuinely thought that irc was a good idea, which i think is unlikely).
03:24 < fenn> there are "anonymous" web based irc proxies all over the place
03:25 < kanzure> eleitl: could be you.
03:26 < fenn> gentlemen, there's a currency killer in our midst
03:26 < eleitl> actually, kanzure is satoshi
03:26 < kanzure> i don't take privacy seriously enough for that to be true
03:26 < kanzure> i am insufficiently paranoid
03:27 < eleitl> ah, but that's what you want *us* to think
03:27 < fenn> " I underestimated him. I didn't even consider the possibility that he would reveal his identity to me on purpose. He could be telling all his other suspects the same thing. In fact, it doesn't even have to be him. He could have sent a double instead."
03:28 < kanzure> have you read gwern's phrase analysis fan work?
03:28 < kanzure> http://www.gwern.net/Death%20Note%20Anonymity
03:28 < eleitl> Keyser Söze <-- Satoshi
03:29 < kanzure> also this one:
03:29 < kanzure> http://www.gwern.net/Death%20Note%20script
03:30 < eleitl> gwern seems to be intent to waste his time
03:30 < kanzure> yeah none of those drugs seem to really help him stop doing that
03:30 < kanzure> he spends all day in #lesswrong pasting large sections of text from blogs
03:31 < kanzure> and then masturbating to ponies fucking each other or w/e
03:31 < eleitl> he's on meds? what for?
03:31 < kanzure> nah just random testing
03:32 < fenn> random testing?
03:32 < fenn> like quantified mind stuff?
03:32 < kanzure> taking noots writing stuff down
03:32 < kanzure> standard self-experimentation procedures
03:33 < fenn> oh, you mean "poor experimental design"
03:33 < kanzure> that too
03:33 < eleitl> why doesn't he do something useful?
03:34 < kanzure> one sec.. reviewing his answers.
03:35 < kanzure> 14:06 <@gwern> kanzure: you start a lot of stuff but you do ever finish and use them?
03:35 < kanzure> 14:06 < kanzure> gwern: yes.
03:35 < kanzure> 14:07 < kanzure> gwern: stop projecting
03:35 < kanzure> heh
03:35 < kanzure> 14:08 <@gwern> kanzure: published doesn't mean applied or useful
03:35 < kanzure> 14:09 < kanzure> gwern: i think you're talking out of your ass. would you like to help these projects?
03:36 < eleitl> how old is he by now? Should be around 20, right?
03:36 < kanzure> 14:14 <@gwern> kanzure: I also have zero hardware skills
03:37 < kanzure> 14:16 <@gwern> kanzure: maybe, but my next target is getting a serial cable for my zeo working, so I have some basic eeg capability for meditation
03:37 < kanzure> meditation :(
03:37 < kanzure> 14:16 < kanzure> gwern: what is your goal with meditation?
03:37 < kanzure> 14:17 <@gwern> kanzure: I'd like to correlate with sleep: there are widespread reports that meditation can reduce sleep needs. with a zeo eeg, I could hope to correlate any reduction with something more specific: total time spent in meditation? time in a specific band? etc
03:37 < kanzure> 14:18 <@gwern> kanzure: a zeo eeg would also establish a higher quality null: if I saw no change in sleep, I could still say 'but on these objective metrics (time in gamma etc) I saw subtantial quality improvements in my meditation! so this is a real null and not me being crappy at meditation'
03:38 < eleitl> what an awful waste of human life
03:38 < kanzure> 14:19 < kanzure> "quality improvements in meditation"?
03:38 < kanzure> 14:20 <@gwern> yes
03:38 < kanzure> 14:20 < kanzure> i should stop asking actually. i'll either end up trying to convince you that you can get better gains by working on other technologies, or just annoyed about you.
03:38 < kanzure> eleitl: agreed.
03:38 < fenn> trading sleep time for meditation time doesn't seem like much of a gain
03:39 < eleitl> sleep seems too basic to try to hack it out of your system without severe side effects
03:39 < eleitl> e.g. I think my memory improvements are almost solely due to improved sleep
03:40 < fenn> some people seem to get by fine on 4-5 hours of sleep.. it's a major handicap if you sleep 12 hours a day
03:40 < fenn> trying to bridge that gap would (theoretically) make an overall 50% productivity boost, nothing to scoff at
03:41 < eleitl> the assumption is that you can modify individual variations without side effects
03:41 < eleitl> there seems to be little evidence that's possible
03:42 < fenn> the more i read about biochemistry the more it seems that most life parameters are nearly completely arbitrary, but since they've remained beyond our control for so long we accept them as absolute
03:42 < eleitl> sleep is very many layers removed from biochemistry
03:43 < eleitl> diurnal cycles are with us for gigayears
03:43 < fenn> eleitl: what's your opinion on "programmed aging" vs the sens style "accumulated damage" hypothesis?
03:43 < eleitl> I'm agnostic. None of fixes will come in within the rest of my lifetime.
03:44 < kanzure> eugen plans to die young at 84
03:44 < fenn> that's a baseless assertion, you can't predict the future
03:44 < eleitl> I have no interest to debate you on that, fenn.
03:44 < eleitl> you pays your money, and you takes you chances.
03:45 < fenn> there's so much hype about antioxidants, but if the accumulated damage theory is incorrect there's no reason to spend money on them
03:45 < kanzure> http://pub5.di.fm/di_vocaltrance_aac?type=.flv
03:46 < fenn> whereas hormonal therapies barely get a passing mention even in publications like LEF magazine
03:46 < eleitl> I'm taking a number of supplments, but I have no reason to assume they're going to make a difference
03:47 < fenn> then why take them? i'm confused
03:47 < eleitl> in the escape velocity difference
03:47 < eleitl> there's value in a decade or more with good QoL
03:47 < fenn> right
03:47 < eleitl> but, I'm rather focusing in cryonics, and active shutdown
03:48 < eleitl> there is still time for that, though not a lot of time
03:49 < kanzure> speaking of not a lot of time, does hal have an eeg device?
03:51 < eleitl> not sure
03:51 < eleitl> I suspect he's using speech input at the moment
03:52 < kanzure> his forum post claims he is using an eye tracking device
03:52 < eleitl> oh, is it that bad already?
03:52 < eleitl> that sucks
03:52 < kanzure> can't produce sounds
03:52 < kanzure> feeding tubes + breathing tubes
03:52 < eleitl> fuckit
03:52 < eleitl> poor bastard
03:52 < kanzure> i sent him some eeg links with some reverse engineered protocol stuff
03:52 < kanzure> he claims he wrote some arduino software to control his chair
03:53 < kanzure> so maybe he will write some eeg things because eye tracking/dasher sucks
03:53 < eleitl> he has hair, so he would have to shave
03:53 < kanzure> actually no
03:53 < fenn> for eye tracking a two-dimensional version of dasher could be useful
03:53 < kanzure> emotiv epoc claims you do not need hair
03:54 < kanzure> i've used emotiv epoc and i hate it but others claim it works
03:54 < fenn> with active electrodes, dry contacts work fine
03:54 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/emokit
03:54 < fenn> the problem is that EEG sucks
03:54 < kanzure> sucks less than ALS
03:54 < eleitl> it's a signal problem, you have to eliminate everything in between
03:54 < eleitl> so shaving and wet electrodes would do better
03:54 < eleitl> but, they suck as well
03:55 < fenn> i'm not clear enough on what signals you have to work with to come up with any useful ideas
03:55 < eleitl> ECoG would be the best, but no way to get that via elective surgery
03:55 < kanzure> with emotiv epoc you need to do lots of training to get like 3 or 4 distinct signals
03:55 < fenn> apparently hawking twitches his cheek muscle? why did that one survive? will hal have use of his eyes, or just a cheek muscle, or nothing, or something else? who knows
03:55 < kanzure> and i could never do better than a ~2 second switching time
03:55 < kanzure> iirc hawking lost his cheeks
03:56 < fenn> so hawking is totally mute now?
03:56 < eleitl> hal seems to have deteriorated quickly
03:56 < eleitl> not sure how his prospects are
03:56 < kanzure> i think hawking might also be doing eye contact
03:56 < kanzure> eleitl: hal seems to think he has 10+ years
03:57 < kanzure> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155054.0
03:57 < kanzure> "For those who don't know me, I'm Hal Finney. I got my start in crypto working on an early version of PGP, working closely with Phil Zimmermann. When Phil decided to start PGP Corporation, I was one of the first hires. I would work on PGP until my retirement. At the same time, I got involved with the Cypherpunks. I ran the first cryptographically based anonymous remailer, among other activities."
03:57 < eleitl> I've read that one, yes.
03:58 < kanzure> ah well there was another one on lesswrong,
03:58 < kanzure> (2009) http://lesswrong.com/lw/1ab/dying_outside/
03:58 < fenn> choose life. choose being an open source programmer and pishing it all in a last ditch attempt to spawn a replacement for yourself
03:58 < kanzure> "I hope to be able to read, browse the net, and even participate in conversations by email and messaging. Voice synthesizers allow local communications, and I am making use of a free service for ALS patients which will create a synthetic model of my own natural voice, for future use. I may even still be able to write code, and my dream is to contribute to open source software projects even from within an immobile body. That will be a life ...
03:59 < kanzure> ... very much worth living"
04:00 < eleitl> if all else fails, there's http://eleitl.imgur.com/all/
04:00 < kanzure> have you scanned your brain and encoded the data in cat photos?
04:00 < eleitl> tested the ice bath yesterday, no leaks
04:00 < kanzure> oh good they are not cat photos.
04:01 < fenn> i have scanned cat photos and encoded the data in my brain, does that count?
04:01 < kanzure> wrong way fenn
04:01 < kanzure> recalibrate.
04:01 < fenn> scanned cat brains and encoded the data in photos?
04:01 < kanzure> i give up
04:02 < eleitl> CAT scan has insufficient resolution
04:03 < fenn> i'm pretty impressed by the CLARITY microscopy technique; with receptor-specific stains i think we have a decent chance to do high throughput synaptic junction reconstruction
04:03 < fenn> there's only so many optical wavelengths though..
04:03 < kanzure> you can wash the stains/antibodies off
04:04 < eleitl> BTC is on a sucker rally
04:04 < eleitl> let's see how far up this one will go
04:04 < fenn> the dead cat bounce
04:05 < eleitl> I missed the window to buy at 60 EUR
04:05 < eleitl> now, I will have to wait
04:05 < fenn> i missed the window to buy at $0.0038..
04:06 < eleitl> tell me about it, I read Satoshi's original announcement
04:06 < kanzure> in 2009 i was experiencing e-currency fatigue
04:06 < kanzure> so i was really annoyed and didn't realize there was an implementation and not just a manifesto.
04:06 < eleitl> moral: don't wait for debian packages, roll your own
04:07 < eleitl> oh, I ran the first version, I was just snobbish to not have Windows 24/7
04:07 < kanzure> all those damn "peer-to-peer" "social currencies"
04:09 < kanzure> fenn: did you read those gwern.net pages?
04:09 < fenn> er.. i read the first part of the hollywood one and decided i didnt need to finish
04:10 < eleitl> here's a great project: help people stop wasting time
04:10 < eleitl> giant ROI
04:11 < fenn> you dont need to do time analysis to determine that Kira is living in japan; all of the deaths were japanese criminals
04:11 < kanzure> fenn: yeah, the basic idea is easy to understand. "use our brains to analyze things."
04:12 < kanzure> i think it was unspoken that he also murdered others at some point
04:12 < fenn> but Kira was already a social phenomenon before he got smart about it
04:12 < eleitl> if you murder the right people, it's definitely going to help
04:12 < eleitl> but you have to keep doing it, though
04:13 < eleitl> sounds like a full-time job
04:13 < fenn> i think it was after like the first 20 deaths people were txting madly Kira this Kira that, who will be next
04:13 < kanzure> eleitl: death note is a story about a kid who finds a magic way to cheat and kill people from a distance. but there are various rules and he ends up being an idiot that gets caught because he doesn't know enough about anonymity.
04:16 < fenn> anyway we already have "assassination politics" it's just that it's accomplished using military drones equipped with missiles
04:17 < fenn> why the hell does a google search for "site:deviantart.com obama drone manhattan" bring up pictures of aaron swartz
04:17 < superkuh> Google knows what your heart truly desires.
04:18 < superkuh> Search queries are just suggestions.
04:18 < kanzure> i wish google would take my queries seriously again.
04:18 < eleitl> kanzure, I know what Death Note is.
04:18 < eleitl> Just never had time to watch it.
04:19 < kanzure> not sure if it's your type
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04:19 < fenn> i tried to watch it but i wasn't intelligent enough to understand what was going on
04:20  * eleitl has been trying to watch Simoun lately
04:20 < kanzure> you might enjoy blame?
04:21 < kanzure> oh wait i've seen simoun..
04:21 < kanzure> maybe once.
04:21 < eleitl> my point precisely
04:21 < eleitl> Blame! looks interesting
04:22 < fenn> i'll second blame!
04:22 < fenn> it doesn't really get going until chapter 7
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04:23 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/blame.tar.gz
04:23 < kanzure> have fun
04:23 < eleitl> great, was scoring for amazon.com DVDs
04:23 < kanzure> no animation version
04:24 < fenn> actually chapter 8 is the best starting place
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04:25 < kanzure> "Killy .. wanders a vast technological world known as "The City". He is searching for Net Terminal Genes, a (possibly) extinct genetic marker that allows humans to access the "Netsphere", a sort of computerized control network for The City. The City is an endless vertical space of artificially-constructed walls, stairways and caverns, separated into massive "floors" by nearly-impenetrable barriers known as "Megastructure". The City is ...
04:25 < kanzure> ... inhabited by scattered human and transhuman tribes as well as hostile cyborgs known as Silicon Creatures. The Net Terminal Genes appear to be the key to halting the unhindered, chaotic expansion of the Megastructure, as well as a way of stopping the murderous horde known as the Safeguard from destroying all humanity."
04:25 < kanzure> seems a good enough summary
04:25 < fenn> it was weird to read Feersum Endjinn and see where nihei got various ideas
04:26 < fenn> blame is about a million times more epic
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04:27 < eleitl> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0008FPIMW/ <-- ordered as well
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04:27 < fenn> i wonder if we could manage to preserve iain banks' brain
04:27 < kanzure> cancel it. the dvd is terrible.
04:27 < eleitl> got that tarball kanzure, thanks.
04:28 < kanzure> they spent all of their production budget on the credits. the rest is like 1 or 2 pictures with voiceover.
04:28 < kanzure> and the voiceover isn't even meaningful.
04:28 < eleitl> so there's no decent anime?
04:28 < kanzure> there is no decent anime of blame
04:28 < eleitl> just manga?
04:28 < kanzure> just manga.
04:28 < kanzure> i should have warned you sooner. i am sorry.
04:28 < fenn> the dvd is just 5 minutes of confusing cut scenes and weird sound effects
04:30 < kanzure> also it's on youtube anyway.
04:30 < eleitl> ok, one-star review agrees. canceled.
04:30 < kanzure> this guy made a way better attempt at a video of blame:
04:30 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl9GGiwtD98
04:32 < superkuh> What reader do you use, kanzure?
04:32 < kanzure> i have been lucky enough to just use mangafox.com and other sites :(
04:33 < kanzure> http://mangafox.me/manga/blame/v01/c007/1.html
04:34 < kanzure> i do not recommend this
04:34 < kanzure> yeah this is broken
04:40 < eleitl> apparently, nexus 10 only sold ~650 k units
04:41 < kanzure> i think it is better to say that they only made 650k units
04:41 < kanzure> nobody was able to buy them
04:41 < kanzure> they were perpetually out of stock
04:41 < eleitl> if only there was a 3G version
04:46 < kanzure> so.. eleitl is otaku. the plot thickens.
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04:50 <@archels> eleitl: Have you ever considered using impedance spectroscopy as a means of determining the viability of tissue?
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04:51 < eleitl> archels, no.
04:51 < eleitl> Fahy uses Na/K ratio, which is quite easy
04:52 <@archels> intracellularly?
04:52 < eleitl> I'm interested in electric function, which will need multiple pickups anyway
04:52 < eleitl> no, they assume if the ion pumps are down and tissue equilibrates it's down
04:52 < eleitl> don't ask me how they validated that proxy
04:55 < eleitl> brb, meeting
04:57 < fenn> gwern assumes that killing criminals is the only goal, whereas it would seem light's law school background would lead him to believe that deterrence is a benefit of punishing criminals
04:57 < eleitl> would work well in politics
04:58 < fenn> if famous people you agreed with just died, and nobody noticed a pattern?
04:58 < fenn> er, s/agreed/disagreed/
04:59 < fenn> it doesn't seem like politics to me
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05:02 < kanzure> for the record i liked the anime. but i also like metalocalypse so take that as you might.
05:03 < kanzure> fenn did you get a whiff of the google glass mirror api documentation?
05:03 < fenn> meh
05:04 < fenn> i saw that it was only open to developers and decided i didn't care
05:04 < fenn> they'll fuck it all up anyway
05:04 < kanzure> it's pretty limited.
05:05 < kanzure> if you could possibly convince your langton lab homies to give you one then at least someone could start reverse engineering it and writing actually ok software
05:06 < fenn> david left google to work on meteor
05:07 < fenn> i know other people who work there but i doubt it would be any advantage
05:07 < kanzure> oh that's the same david?
05:07 < fenn> yep
05:07 < kanzure> meteor raised quite a large sum of venture funding..
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05:20 < fenn> jeez.. gwern's article about "how terrorism doesn't work" has a connotation that one could make huge stock market gains by assassinating a CEO to influence the company's share price
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06:19 <@archels> paperbot: Ectopic eyes outside the head in Xenopus tadpoles provide sensory data for light-mediated learning
06:19 <@archels> shit
06:20 <@archels> paperbot: http://jeb.biologists.org/content/216/6/1031.full.pdf+html
06:20 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Ectopic%20eyes%20outside%20the%20head%20in%20Xenopus%20tadpoles%20provide%20sensory%20data%20for%20light-mediated%20learning.pdf
06:29 <@archels> yep, figured it was being misrepresented on popular science sites
06:29 <@archels> of the tadpoles with ectopic eyes, only those that showed innervation of the spine/gut allowed the tadpole to learn shock avoidance based on a light cue
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06:40 < eleitl> what is a good RSS reader for Android?
06:42 < eleitl> gReader Pro?
06:43 < eleitl> second question, does OwnCloud do full text PDF search?
06:43 < eleitl> everybody seems to be using Evernote
06:44 < eleitl> http://forum.owncloud.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10464 looks recent, not working yet
06:45 < eleitl> http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/24/meet-owncloud-5-the-open-source-dropbox/
06:45 < eleitl> Another big new addition is a full-text search mechanism, powered by Lucene. This is something that ownCloud offers that the proprietary solutions don’t. The full-text search will work in the mobile clients, as well as the web interface, allowing you to find files based on their contents, not just their file names.
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08:56 < eudoxia> i think satoshi is just one guy
08:56 < eudoxia> mixing TOR and Tor and tor are probably the first things i would think of to obscure my text
08:58 < eudoxia> there's also http://www.yodaspeak.co.uk/
08:58 < eudoxia> 'Think of to obscure my text I mixing tor and tor and tor are probably the first things would.' oh what a failure
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09:07 < chris_99> maybe he ran his text through some kind of randomisation algorithm to stop people attempting to identify him ;)
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09:39 < kanzure> chris_99: there's no randomization algorithm that produces writing that strong.
09:41 < chris_99> just give it a very low probability of flipping words for alternatives
09:44 < chris_99> hmm bitcoin seems to be slowly creeping back up too
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11:43 < chris_99> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5I9OwaLRv8
11:43 < chris_99> .title
11:43 < yoleaux> Science research shows how bees are attracted to flowers - YouTube
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12:52 < ParahSailin> http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3040
12:53 < kanzure> .title
12:53 < yoleaux> The $12 Gongkai Phone « bunnie's blog
12:55 < chris_99> impressive
13:08 < ParahSailin> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/open-tech-forever-r-d-factory-for-open-source-industrial-hardware
13:08 < ParahSailin> how do i get into the "sponging off of donations for open source projects" class
13:09 < kanzure> .title
13:09 < yoleaux> Open Tech Forever - R&D Factory for Open Source Industrial Hardware | Indiegogo
13:09 < kanzure> oops my bad
13:09 < kanzure> that should have been obvious
13:09 < kanzure> i got spam from them earlier today. i deeted it.
13:10 < kanzure> *deleted
13:11 < ParahSailin> kanzure: have you pulled off an indiegogo money collection?
13:11 < kanzure> nope, don't want to either.
13:12 < ParahSailin> too proud to collect money from suckers?
13:13 < ParahSailin> er, scrupulous is probably the better word
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13:38 < kanzure> this guy is a spammer and i hate him: Yoonseo Kang <ykang404@gmail.com>
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13:48 < ParahSailin> lol
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16:37 < kanzure> openworm wiki is migrating to https://github.com/openworm/OpenWorm/wiki
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17:34 < kanzure> god damn it
17:34 < kanzure> http://www.museion.ku.dk/biohack-lab/
17:34 < kanzure> fuck these fuckers and their forced oaths
17:35 < kanzure> can't they at least say "we also realize that we don't represent everyone in the community" if they are so self-proclaimedly focused on being "ethical".
17:37 < kanzure> i like how their ethics isn't about actually being independent.
17:46 < clock> " and will apply it for the benefit of humankind"
17:46 < clock> means he has to do at least one thing for the benefit of humankind? or all the things he does have to be for the benefit of humankind?
17:47 < clock> I also think the term "benefit of humankind" is too vague term to be used in such a context
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17:49 < kanzure> clock: i don't think people are thinking carefully about these things.
17:50 < clock> kajetan, so do I understand right, u dont like the oath?
17:51 < kanzure> do you mean to ask me?
17:51 < kanzure> anyway, yes, i am strongly opposed to top-down mandates in this community
17:51 < clock> kanzure, yes you kanzure sorry
17:51 < kanzure> i am also opposed to the "self-imposed moratorium" that was floated around a while ago
17:52 < clock> I dislike it when I read it too
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17:52 < clock> These make impression on me they are irrelevant anywaya
17:52 < kanzure> i also think it is strongly misleading to write an oath because you are misleading others to think that all non-institutional members are following the same oauth, which isn't true.
17:52 < clock> what are they going to achieve in DIY biology or whatever by making museums of dried mummies or whatever is on the pages?
17:53 < kanzure> better than wet mummies, i imagine?
17:53 < clock> kanzure, a guz who takes strawberries and blender is in my opinion much more relevant for this kind of science
17:53 < kanzure> i have never been mummified before i dunno
17:53 < clock> this web makes impression on me that  #1 goal is impressive graphics
17:54 < kanzure> i think i prefer meredith's biopunk manifesto if anything..
17:54 < kanzure> why is hackteria and biologigaragen agreeing to this. i would expect better of them.
17:54 < kanzure> openbioprojects.net is just trojak, so he can agree to whatever he wants.
17:55 < clock> anyone needs any kind of DIY ddevices tools for biopunk?
17:55 < clock> I want to do living by open source hardware development
17:56 < clock> I need some useful simple projects to develop
17:56 < clock> I have Twibright Labs
17:56 < kanzure> what do you mean you "have twibright"
17:57 < kanzure> what does "do living" mean
17:57 < clock> like at the moment I am working on the technology for cutting arbitratry shapes (also complicated inner holes) into up to 2mm steel plates at home
17:57 < clock> without any noise, effort or dangerous chemicals
17:57 < clock> kanzure, I am kinda founder of Twibright Labs
17:57 < clock> kanzure, do for living
17:57 < clock> and I needed a device for separation by sedimentation
17:57 < clock> I made a nice one from PET bottles
17:58 < clock> it even has screw-based stopcock which can be adjusted! I am amazed what can be done from trash when the need is here
17:58 < kanzure> are you kkulhavy
17:58 < clock> yes
17:59 < kanzure> here is a list of things that would be helpful to work on:
17:59 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/diytranshuman_projects.v4.html
18:00 < kanzure> other relevant equipment:
18:00 < kanzure> http://gnusha.org/skdb/BOMs/diybio-equipment.yaml
18:00 < clock> I used BRL-CAD extensively
18:01 < clock> BRL-CAD actually even used some of my project screenshots on their conference presentations
18:01 < kanzure> brlcad has recently implemented partial nurbs surface-surface intersection:
18:01 < kanzure> http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Phoenix/GSoc2012/Reports
18:02 < clock> "For this reason, job candidates must already have a machine shop and lab to work in" - DIY bio only for machine shop and lab owners?
18:02 < kanzure> that idea was for funding a specific open source hardware developer to work through the backlog of needed equipment
18:03 < kanzure> at the time, i wasn't able to fund a full hackerspace on my own (at least, not to the level i wanted)
18:03 < clock> I like to work in a different way
18:03 < kanzure> so it was more efficient to find someone who already had the desire and capability but perhaps not the income
18:03 < clock> I do free physical products for manufacture by the consumer
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18:03 < clock> If you buy a Ferrari, you don't need to own a car workshop
18:03 < clock> If you buy a bread, you don't need a bakery
18:04 < kanzure> i will build a car workshop if i want to, screw you
18:04 < clock> If you buy a TV, you don't need to have an oscilloscope, a multimeter and a soldering iron to be able to bring it to turning on
18:04 < clock> Similarly, I think requirements of labs workshops etc. are restrictive and undermine the idea
18:04 < kanzure> i think having an oscilloscope, multimeter, voltmeter, soldering iron, smt pick-and-placer are all very useful
18:05 < clock> kanzure, I feel insulted and discrespected when you say screw you
18:05 < kanzure> you are trying to tell me that i can't have lab equipment :(
18:05 < kanzure> or that i shouldn't need it
18:05 < kanzure> that's totally false and i know you're lying
18:05 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M30-oInTKs4
18:05 < kanzure> .title
18:05 < yoleaux> Chicken embryo heart cells beating in culture - YouTube
18:06 < kanzure> clock: perhaps this will help put things in perspective, having the ability to build tools is not a bad thing. in fact, it can be considered critical. http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration
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22:07 < superkuh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8CRdRc8CcGY#t=594s - galvanic vestibular stimulation mentioned at the Oculus VR session at the game developer conference.
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22:20 -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by george church and the NRA | http://gnusha.org/logs http://diyhpl.us/wiki http://groups.google.com/group/diybio | banned by the Federal Death Administration | official paperbot fan club
22:20 -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] [Sat Mar 23 20:40:45 2013]
22:20 [Users ##hplusroadmap]
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22:20 -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010
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23:08 < fenn> i liked his comment at the end about using eye tracking to dynamically adjust the display's focus
23:10 < fenn> oh he left
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23:15 < kanzure> fenn: pm.
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--- Log closed Sat Apr 20 00:00:03 2013