--- Log opened Wed Apr 24 00:00:06 2013
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01:17 < rigel> any of yall used http://robotframework.org/ ? seems like it integrates with phantomjs et al
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03:50 < superkuh> paperbot: http://prl.aps.org/pdf/PRL/v110/i17/e174301
03:50 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/83a6b2bf8e8daea69d5b92a8abb00812.txt
03:50 < superkuh> paperbot: http://prl.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v110/i17/e174301
03:50 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/64a36b49a3af772cbb9f0cd6a3d44a80.txt
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05:21 < delinquentme> paperbot, http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v4/n4/full/ncomms2745.html
05:21 < paperbot> HTTP 401 unauthorized http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v4/n4/pdf/ncomms2745.pdf
05:21 < delinquentme> phegs!
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06:32 < industromatic> Is there any biodegradable film that will serve as a strong container like paper even while wet for a few days?
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06:34 < chris_99> hmm, i'm not sure how well it comes when wet, but some people made some containers out of fungi iirc
06:35 < chris_99> http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/pure-genius/ecovative-the-new-plastic-is-made-from-mushrooms/5717
06:37 < fenn> try PLA (compostable deli containers) or compostable trash bags?
06:37 < fenn> need more info on what you're doing to help
06:38 -!- Gue______ is now known as processing
06:39 < fenn> rice hulls are an interesting substance; they're inflammable because the mineral content is so high it forms a protective ash film
06:39 < fenn> this property makes them nearly impossible to dispose of, so there are mountains of the stuff available for free
06:40 < fenn> non-flammable*
06:42 < chris_99> intriguing
06:42 < chris_99> didn't know that
06:44 < fenn> i was thinking about using it as house insulation
06:54 < ParahSail1n> load newspaper with borate and it won't burn
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07:01 < ParahSail1n> i think most rice hulls end up going to cows
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07:38 < delinquentme> what does the current state of the art look like for sequencing assembly hardware?
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09:39 < eudoxia> paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?reload=true&arnumber=6268161
09:40 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/3187ece783c7f7e64ff2605c0ff0b6a9.pdf
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10:35 < kanzure> "Why not just use gpg to encrypt all the PDFs, using the hostname of the mirror of the password?"
10:35 < kanzure> mirror of the password?
10:49 < EnLilaSko> I assume "as the password"
10:49 < EnLilaSko> idk
10:50 < EnLilaSko> Can anyone help me understand "PRL-8-53 does not produce stimulation or depression of avoidance rate in rats working on a continuous avoidance schedule."?
10:50 < EnLilaSko> Do they just mean that it doesn't cause any stimulatory effects nor depression?
10:51 < brownies> no, not exactly
10:51 < brownies> it means that it does not alter the avoidance rate in either direction in a statistically significant way
10:52 < EnLilaSko> What is avoidance rate?
10:53 < kanzure> that's topic-specific. an avoidance schedule has a specific definition. look up the protocol.
10:59 < EnLilaSko> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cmdc.201000446/abstract;jsessionid=269962F66DEBE76849053F4302D9C7C9.d03t02
10:59 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/40c73dabaefed3a7b54f113f6be8b725.txt
11:01 < EnLilaSko> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF01934822
11:01 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/b964e6067d5da990a883d76175c9697e.txt
11:01 < kanzure> hmm we're getting a lot of access denied
11:37 < kanzure> abetusk: also there's a GET conference thing in boston happening on the 25th
11:38 < kanzure> and jonathan cluck might be worth saying hi to
11:38 < kanzure> i think patrik is in boston this week?
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11:54 < EnLilaSko> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nm.3145.html
11:54 < paperbot> HTTP 401 unauthorized http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/vaop/ncurrent/pdf/nm.3145.pdf
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12:10 < nmz787> EnLilaSko:http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/Intestinal%20microbiota%20metabolism%20of%20l-carnitine__a%20nutrient%20in%20red%20meat__promotes%20atherosclerosis.pdf
12:10 < nmz787> EnLilaSko: http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/cmasterjohn/2013/04/10/does-carnitine-from-red-meat-contribute-to-heart-disease-through-intestinal-bacterial-metabolism-to-tmao/
12:10 < nmz787> I'd simply read the latter
12:13 < EnLilaSko> nmz787: I was guessing it was something like that, i.e. medias reporting shit about stuff they don't have a clue about
12:20 < nmz787> yeah
12:20 < nmz787> some key downfalls in the study
12:20 < nmz787> low numbers for study population for the human end
12:21 < nmz787> believing women are equivalent to men, even though there is some metabolic differences known for carnitine/assoc pathways
12:21 < nmz787> converting the amount of carnitine the mice's drinking water had (equivalent to like 1000 steaks per day for a human)
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12:29 < nmz787> delinquentme: suppp
12:29 < brownies> sounds like a moonumental amount of steak
12:32 < kanzure> i wish i was better at timezones
12:32 < delinquentme> nmz787, derping on ICvideos
12:32 < kanzure> https://mat.boum.org/ was recommended on science-liberation-front for removing metadata from .doc, .pdf, .ppt and other common file formats.
12:36 < nmz787> ICvideos?
12:36 < nmz787> klafka: so what did you learn at the psch conf?
12:36 < nmz787> psych*
12:37 < klafka> hmm i didn't actually get to attend any of the sessions :(
12:37 < klafka> I was at the dancesafe table the whole time
12:37 < nmz787> aww
12:37 < klafka> i did get to do a lot of networking and stuff
12:37 < klafka> which was cool
12:37 < brownies> you're with dancesafe?
12:38 < nmz787> i heard there is unaio de vegetal or something up in oregon
12:38 < klafka> oh UDV
12:38 < nmz787> or the other huasca church
12:38 < klafka> it's all over
12:38 < nmz787> but i can't find any good info
12:38 < klafka> brownies: yes
12:38 < nmz787> just some lady from a news article, and her facebook pages lists her as like a holistic magic person
12:38 < klafka> https://mycotopia.net/forums/botanicals/51204-ayahuasxca-now-legal-church-ashland-oregon.html
12:38 < nmz787> or something weird
12:39 < nmz787> so i don't have any legit leads to find these people
12:39 < klafka> idk if you want to get into that sort of thing you can probably find some 'shaman' in the area
12:39 < klafka> oh i see
12:39 < klafka> go to like an evolver meetup
12:39 < nmz787> i'm not sure i'd like them if they were all holistic believers
12:39 < klafka> most of them are going to be like that
12:39 < klafka> http://www.evolvernetwork.org/
12:39 < nmz787> i emailed rick strassman not too long ago, he replied :P
12:40 < nmz787> but he's not in oregon
12:40 < nmz787> i don't think
12:40 < klafka> he was in NM
12:40 < nmz787> at least he was in NM 20 years ago
12:40 < klafka> lol
12:40 < klafka> are you in pdx
12:40 < klafka> or ?
12:40 < nmz787> yea
12:40 < nmz787> well burbs
12:40 < klafka> let me just see
12:40 < klafka> https://www.facebook.com/events/491813867546480/505785062816027/?notif_t=plan_mall_activity btw delinquentme
12:41 < klafka> INTERNET CAT VIDEO FESTIVAL OF OAKLAND
12:41 < klafka> gonna be so good
12:41 < nmz787> lol
12:41 < nmz787> amazing
12:41 < delinquentme> oh jesus
12:41 < delinquentme> so good.
12:41 < brownies> what did Rick tell you?
12:41 < klafka> nmz787: we have a psychedelic society of sf here
12:42 < klafka> like if you were really interested i would go to stuff like an evolver meetup or like burner / psytrance events and talk to people
12:42 < klafka> guaranteed to find someone
12:42 < nmz787> "I'd like to see the DMT-synthesizing gene's regulation studied more.  The brain clearly needs the attention of genetic engineering, and that's going to be a wild ride."
12:43 < klafka> in general psychedelic genomics is a field that is in its super infancy
12:43 < nmz787> yeah
12:43 < brownies> klafka: thing is, those places are full of suspicious hippie nuts, not scientists
12:43 < nmz787> yeah
12:43 < nmz787> that
12:43 < klafka> i would totally switch fields if i could be a psychedelic genomicist
12:44 < nmz787> let's do it
12:44 < klafka> brownies: that's what you're going to find if you want to find a shaman for an ayahuasca journey
12:44 < nmz787> i'm a fresh biotech/bioinf B.S. (-3 classes)
12:44 < klafka> maybe you want someone that does like psychedelic therapy ?
12:44 < klafka> where they are an actual therapist
12:44 < nmz787> hmm
12:44 < klafka> idk what do you want
12:45 < nmz787> outsource the work to them, just handle the genomics
12:45 < klafka> you can just take ayahuasca with someone you trust as a trip sitter
12:45 < klafka> that is experienced
12:45 < nmz787> guidance is the point of a shaman though
12:45 < nmz787> or therapist
12:45 < klafka> yes
12:45 < klafka> that's why i said it depends what you want out of it
12:45 < klafka> that's how you choose your guide
12:46 < klafka> if you don't want 'hippie nonsense' or perhaps a bit nicer 'spiritual discovery'
12:46 < klafka> then you don't need a shaman
12:46 < nmz787> i read like 10 years ago on some weird web site that you could learn to edit your own DNA
12:46 < nmz787> that was pretty interesting
12:46 < nmz787> way before i knew much about DNA
12:46 < nmz787> so that would be cool to look into, since I talk about DNA synthesis alot
12:47 < nmz787> but i feel like there would be a LOT of searching through 'noise' when asking people about this
12:47 < klafka> lol yes
12:47 < klafka> nmz787: idk i am immediately intensely sceptical anytime someone talks about DNA in the psychedelic community
12:47 < nmz787> 'hmm, you hide you GM appendage well, I can't see it at all'
12:47 < klafka> that is not an actual mol/cel biologist
12:47 < nmz787> 'oh you encoded insivibility for it too'
12:47 < nmz787> 'makes sense'
12:48 < klafka> like terrence mckenna's theory of harmaline resonance with DNA
12:48 < nmz787> I can barely remember that one
12:48 < nmz787> recently i've really started to question the 'innate knowledge in the molecule' concepts
12:49 < klafka> why?
12:49 < nmz787> well, it's only got so many degrees of difference from other molecules
12:49 < nmz787> so not that much more info inherent
12:49 < klafka> i guess the knowledge is in the system
12:50 < klafka> it's like going from a neuro transmitter/receptor view of the brain to a neural firing pattern view of the brain
12:50 < kanzure> .... what.
12:50 < nmz787> I'm not convinced we can't do telepathy, so maybe these molecules could actually change brain circuits to resonate and communicate with 'greater consciousness' or the hive or whatever
12:50 < nmz787> hive mind
12:51 < klafka> idk i have yet to see a convincing argument for telepathy
12:51 < klafka> or a good example of telepathy existing
12:51 < kanzure> electronic telepathy has already been demonstrated.
12:51 < nmz787> i did a bunch of research last year
12:51 < nmz787> not much out there
12:51 < delinquentme> klafka, did I tell you <#
12:51 < nmz787> not a good test system developed
12:51 < kanzure> i'm pretty sure warwick was the first one to demonstrate electronic telepathy with his wife's wrist implant.
12:51 < klafka> what does electronic telepathy mean?
12:52 < nmz787> like, put person in a faraday cage and blast them with scanner freq EM from low to really high freq
12:52 < nmz787> and see if they feel anything other than heat
12:52 < klafka> aah
12:52 < kanzure> klafka: wireless communication over radio.
12:52 < kanzure> but why are you guys bothering with "innate knowledge inside a molecule" nonsense. wtf?
12:53 < nmz787> or have some scanning transmitter helmet that you wear, and the message encoded on the carrier freq is always the same... some color or sound data... so when you see or hear that, you'll know there's resonance
12:53 < nmz787> kanzure: it's what a lot of hippy/shaman types say
12:53 < superkuh> It isn't uncommon for people who identify as transhumanists to believe that extremely weak magnetic fields can somehow effect the brain. Usually Russians. This often leads to even worse talk of shared effects from geomagnetic events.
12:54 < nmz787> the best biophysical systems I found that looked a lot like electronics were the electric eel shock systems
12:54 < nmz787> basically like a voltage pump
12:55 < delinquentme> isnt there some open source / rentable IC fabrication lab?
12:55 < nmz787> 1-way membranes aka diodes
12:55 < kanzure> delinquentme: no, but there's two major companies that offer space on their wafers for ASICs and die packaging. also there's homecmos if you want to do it yourself.
12:55 < delinquentme> or like a fab lab which does something less than holy-crap-intel-scale-utilization?
12:55 < nmz787> most brain freqs are damn low, but i wonder if that's not because we simply aren't checking the right freqs
12:56 < nmz787> there was a lot of russian data on the eyes emitting photons
12:56 < delinquentme> kanzure, do you know of any processes in IC design for making micro / nano manipulators?
12:56 < nmz787> so more line-of-sight than broadcasting
12:56 < nmz787> delinquentme: micromanipulators are made by pulling glass capillary
12:56 < nmz787> delinquentme: IC wafer fabs pull crystals, so similar but not same
12:57 < delinquentme> but I mean a process to etch manipulators through a chip-fab process
12:58 < nmz787> depends what manipulator you want
12:58 < nmz787> if it's for cells, then need to be hollow
12:58 < nmz787> so easier to pull and snap
12:58 < nmz787> maybe you could make layers
12:59 < nmz787> and have a boxy manipulator
13:00 < delinquentme> and the design software? probs just something like cad?
13:01 < kanzure> for wafer masks people tend to use things like autocad dxf :(
13:01 < kanzure> also sometimes the masks are autogenerated from vlsi verilog/vhdl things.
13:02 < kanzure> "Organovo Holdings, Inc., a company that designs and creates functional human tissue has announced at this year's Experimental Biology Conference that it has developed a 3D printing technique that is able to produce small samples of human liver tissue. They claim their new process allows for printing 500 micron thick liver tissue, amounting to 20 cell layers, which is able to produce cholesterol and some of the enzymes produced by the natural ...
13:02 < kanzure> ... liver. The liver samples produced, the company said, can be used by researchers looking to test the efficacy of new drugs designed to treat liver diseases or to test side effects on the liver of drugs created for other purposes."
13:02 < kanzure> hmm i'm not sure what the point is for testing purposes. how exactly similar are their tissues to actual human tissue?
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15:21 < nmz787> so this isn't that funny or witty http://memegenerator.net/instance/37253023
15:21 < nmz787> i'm not sure how to do better
15:28 < kanzure> http://www.joachim-breitner.de/blog/archives/593-The-carbondioxide-footprint-of-Debians-Haskell-packages.html
15:29 < kanzure> "By now, Debian ships quite a lot of Haskell packages (~600). Because of GHC's ABI volatility, whenever we upload a new version of a library, we have to rebuild all libraries that depend on that. In particular, if we upload a new version of the compiler itself, we have to rebuild all Haskell library packages. So we have to rebuild stuff a lot. Luckily, Debian has a decent autobuilding setup so that I just need to tell it what to rebuild, and ...
15:29 < kanzure> ... the rest happens automatically (including figuring out the actual order to build things)."
15:29 < kanzure> "During the last four days a complete rebuild was happening, due to the upload of GHC 7.6.3. During these 2 days and 18 hours building 537 packages took 48 hours of build time and produced 15kg of CO2. That is 94% of all uploads and 91% the total build time. The numbers are lower for the whole of last year: 52% of uploads, 31% of build time and 57kg of CO2."
15:31 < ParahSailin> lol
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16:07 < ThomasEgi> and that is why i install precompiled packages. and not running on a source-and-self-compile distro
16:07 < ThomasEgi> environmental reasons.. and lazyness. mainly lazyness.
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16:57 < kanzure> someone posted some helpful things about the solidworks file format https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/openmanufacturing/Fv2Ovmxnfyw
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17:21 < nmz787> paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=5588008&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D5588008
17:21 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/d569853ecbe85c4c1d3e702510051ca3.pdf
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19:35 < nmz787> fenn: are you around?
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19:36 < kanzure> don't ask to ask etc..
19:37 < kanzure> also see the corollary ("just ask")
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20:11 < nmz787> wasn't that a question?
20:11 < nmz787> i mean, i /did/ ask something
20:11 < kanzure> yes but what about just saying what you need?
20:13 < nmz787> fenn: where are you these days?
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20:37 < brownies> kanzure: hang on, i have a question about asking to ask. can i ask that here?
20:41 < Juul> any good DNA day offers today?
20:42 < kanzure> brownies: you forgot /quit to make it look realistic
20:42 < yashgaroth> "offering a 50% discount on gBlocks™ Gene Fragments* for one day only. gBlocks Gene Fragments are double-stranded, sequence-verified genomic blocks up to 500 bp"
20:44 < brownies> heh
20:46 < kanzure> cambrian genomics recently raised a few million
20:46 < kanzure> i think this is not the SBIR money from DARPA.
20:48 < kanzure> "The novel aspect of the Cambrian Genomics approach comes from the fact that they make many thousands of copies of their sequence, ensuring that at least some proportion will have been made with the proper sequence."
20:48 < kanzure> that's not novel.. that's a lie.
20:49 < kanzure> "Cambrian Genomics brings in lasers only once the plate is covered with many thousands of DNA-carrying beads, and once each of the beads has been sequenced. With so many copies made, some predictable portion will have been made error-free, and an automated laser flits about over the plate and blasts any beads with a desired sequence off of the plate and into a collector. "
20:49 < kanzure> so uh i don't remember that part
20:49 < kanzure> i think fenn didn't know about that
20:49 < kanzure> yashgaroth: verdict?
20:50 < yashgaroth> man until I get a full tech brief on their process I'm gonna continue being skeptical
20:51 < kanzure> it's just normal dna synthesis
20:51 < kanzure> except they sequence each bead
20:51 < yashgaroth> but how
20:51 < kanzure> i'm sure plate sequencing is already a thing
20:51 < kanzure> ... right?
20:51 < yashgaroth> not as much for single molecules
20:51 < kanzure> no they are beads
20:51 < yashgaroth> with single molecules on them
20:51 < yashgaroth> presumably you're running the same synthesis process on all the beads, but each single strand may have errors
20:51 < kanzure> right
20:52 < yashgaroth> so you have to find single molecules that have the correct sequence, which is hard
20:52 < yashgaroth> since single-molecule sequencing is terribly error prone, and/or impossible when it's stuck to a huge bead
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20:53 < kanzure> it's possible that they wash the beads and then sequence. dunno.
20:53 < yashgaroth> well sure they can wash it
20:53 < kanzure> anyway the laser part is the important detail. i didn't know they were using lasers to push beads around.
20:54 < yashgaroth> when you're as cutting edge as cambrian, you gotta have a laser or two in there somewhere
20:55 < kanzure> well, if you use magnets you end up with possible contamination
20:55 < kanzure> unless you can time it right so that you levitate an object briefly, turn off the electromagnet, then have the bead fall into place somewhere.
20:55 < nmz787> they're using some sequence by template matching or something
20:55 < nmz787> template or ligtaion
20:55 < nmz787> 10mers though
20:56 < nmz787> the laser induced forward transfer is well known tech actually
20:56 < kanzure> yes i'm aware it's well known tech
20:56 < kanzure> but i didn't know they were using that idea in particular
20:57 < nmz787> and helicos does single molecule sequencing by synthesis on a plate with a microscope reading the seq
20:57 < nmz787> it's still not making things cheaper though, as far as I can tell
20:57 < kanzure> yeah, but yashgaroth is claiming the method is impossible (or something)
20:57 < nmz787> they're just automating the existing pruning process
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20:58 < kanzure> i don't remember the specific binding chemistry though
20:58 < kanzure> antibody? biotin? who knows.
20:58 < nmz787> which binding?
20:58 < nmz787> i'm pretty sure it's just stuck in the think liquid layer
20:59 < nmz787> thin
20:59 < nmz787> emulsion
20:59 < nmz787> polonator tech
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20:59 < nmz787> (joe kaufman mentioned it was prob polonator tech, the night after i visited cambrian)
21:00 < kanzure> prob?
21:00 < yash> just sayin', single molecule reading by CCD or whatever is fine if you have many copies of a sample so you can figure out errors from individual molecules' sequences
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21:01 < kanzure> nmz787: i think you should revisit the pacbio paper. they were specifically binding the enzyme to the bottom of the well with some linker chemistry.
21:02 < nmz787> probably*
21:02 < nmz787> kanzure: that's not helicos tech though
21:02 < kanzure> yash: if your complaint is that individual beads will have millions of possibly-wrong sequences, then i could understand where you're coming from. maybe they get better-enough yields from this method than not doing it at all, so they view it as a net gain.
21:02 < nmz787> helicos just uses damn good fluorophores
21:02 < nmz787> i wish i could buy their reagent refill kit
21:03 < nmz787> or get a price on it
21:04 < nmz787> i have a simple way to fix the error much closer to the source, simply by gel filtering between synthesis steps
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21:04 < yashgaroth> god damnit
21:04 < kanzure> yash: if two beads have different error rates, just select the one with the better error rate. also you could do pcr and whichever sequence ends up winning could be sequenced, and then you can be sure about whether or not it's errored.
21:05 < yashgaroth> why would different beads have different error rates
21:05 < kanzure> "actual" error rate
21:05 < kanzure> "observed" error rate i mean.
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21:06 < yashgaroth> if you have to do pcr and amplify the sequence and then sequence it, you're not doing much better than traditional methods
21:06 < kanzure> yeah nevermind. doesn't matter. when you do 40 cycles of PCR, your population is going to end up dominated by a winning sequence, and that's the one you sequence. and that one might have an error or not.
21:06 < yashgaroth> I guess they could reduce the proportion of bad sequences but it's not groundbreaking
21:06 < kanzure> well reducing the proportion of bad sequences might be grounbreaking if it actually reduces the cost of synthesis
21:07 < kanzure> *groundbreaking
21:07 < kanzure> of course, i wouldn't call it groundbreaking in that scenario anyway :)
21:08 < ParahSail1n> you guys are talking about the laser printing of genes?
21:08 < yashgaroth> I don't see why they have to be so damn secretive if they've got a patent, unless china or something
21:08 < kanzure> it's not laser printing.
21:09 < ParahSail1n> i should have put the quotation marks
21:10 < ParahSail1n> what is their supposed technology anyway\
21:11 < kanzure> synthesis on a plate, then sequencing on a plate (i guess?), then using a laser to bump the beads off the plate for conjugation.
21:11 < yashgaroth> it seems to be something about 'run traditional synthesis on beads, where there's a single strand on each bead somehow, then sequencing those individual strands'
21:11 < kanzure> + ignore the beads that probably have a bad sequence
21:11 < kanzure> yashgaroth: i don't think there's a single strand on each bead.
21:11 < yashgaroth> well there better be because unless you're reading a single strand the result is useless
21:15 < kanzure> nmz787: i'm not going to watch an entire video just to hear the three seconds of detail. could you just summarize what the actual method is?
21:20 < ParahSail1n> is singularity university siai?
21:21 < kanzure> no
21:21 < kanzure> however, siai sold their branding to singularity university recently
21:21 < kanzure> so the answer is "yes" in that sense..
21:21 < ParahSail1n> who is behind cambrian
21:22 < kanzure> http://anselmlevskaya.com/ and george church
21:22 < yashgaroth> george church is behind as in 'previously involved'
21:22 < kanzure> i think the full list is sagar indurkhya, austen heinz, reese jones, john mulligan, anselm levskaya, and george church
21:22 < kanzure> yeah who knows what george is actually up to
21:22 < nmz787> kanzure: actually they're using the oligomaker from azcobiotech
21:22 < yashgaroth> not cambrian, that much we know
21:23 < nmz787> kanzure: the video was linked to the second
21:23 < kanzure> what?
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21:24 < nmz787> the method is use this to make 150mer oligos http://www.azcobiotech.com/instruments/OligoArray.php
21:24 < kanzure> no what does "linked to the second" mean?
21:24 < nmz787> attach to beads, do emulsion PCR to amp each oligo
21:24 < nmz787> do some template matching/ligation sequencing
21:25 < nmz787> for good matches, use laser to induce forward transfer to a plate below
21:25 < kanzure> they are willing to do emulsion pcr in batch? alright..
21:25 < nmz787> collect an aliquot from each well on output plate, do gibson, etc
21:25 < ParahSail1n> i wonder if you could do bridge amplification on solid support ala illumina
21:25 < nmz787> the emulsion keeps the chemistry localized according to j kaufman
21:25 < nmz787> so each bead is clonal
21:25 < kanzure> yeah i'm familiar with emulsion pcr but it was always a huge pain in the butt
21:25 < ParahSail1n> and do the sequencing of clusters ala illumina
21:26 < kanzure> how are they extracting beads from an emulsion? i don't get it.
21:26 < ParahSail1n> and then pick out your beads with a laser
21:26 < nmz787> they also had an myseq or hiseq there
21:26 < kanzure> i guess it wouldn't require too much more force if it was suspended in emulsion
21:27 < ParahSail1n> emulsion pcr seems dubious when illumina's bridge amplification is established to work well
21:28 < nmz787> it doesn't seem to matter
21:28 < ParahSail1n> i wonder if cambrian has any interesting ligation ideas
21:28 < nmz787> as long as it's clonal amp
21:28 < kanzure> nah i'm sure they just use gibson assembly
21:29 < ParahSail1n> that azco thing is pretty cool
21:30 < ParahSail1n> the promise of .03 cents that is, couldnt say if there are deliverables yet
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21:37 < kanzure> this is neat:
21:37 < kanzure> http://www.seomoz.org/blog/machine-learning-and-link-spam-my-brush-with-insanity
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22:12 < Mokstar> Howdy folks
22:12 < Mokstar> Who was that fellow who was building NIR EEG systems?
22:18 < ParahSail1n> kanzure is a huge fan of EEG
22:18 < Mokstar> kanzure, do you know anything about NIR HEG?
22:18 < kanzure> aaaaaah
22:18 < kanzure> ParahSail1n: stop it people will believe you
22:19 < kanzure> http://openoptogeneticsblog.org/?p=383
22:19 < kanzure> .title
22:19 < yoleaux> 3D waveguide array for optogenetic neuronal stimulation | OpenOptogenetics
22:20 < kanzure> iirc ed boyden had an infrared-related apparatus but i dunno if it was near-infrared or if it was HEG or EEG... i doubt it was EEG.
22:20 < kanzure> btw don't listen to ParahSail1n, because i really don't like EEG.
22:20 < Mokstar> yeah, you like scrambling people's eggs with ultrasound! :p
22:21 < Mokstar> eeg = electrical, heg = hemoglobin
22:22 < kanzure> oh maybe you are thinking of "functional near infrared optical brain imaging"
22:23 < Mokstar> damn
22:23 < Mokstar> did I say NIR EEG?
22:23  * Mokstar slaps himself.
22:23 < Mokstar> I blame... someone else.
22:24 < Mokstar> I was gonna ask about what wavelength would work best, but then I just looked up the absorption spectrum of hemoglobin
22:25 < kanzure> i don't know anyone doing fNIR things..
22:26 < kanzure> do i? i'm really confused. why have i not seen this?
22:26 < kanzure> what sort of depth does it provide? this does not tell me many things: http://www.andrewpatrick.ca/wp-content/uploads/t004map.jpg
22:27 < Mokstar> afaik it's pretty broad, I was interested in using it to suss regional frequencies
22:27 < Mokstar> in combo with tDCS
22:27 < kanzure> what does broad mean?
22:28 < kanzure> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1469-8986.00053/abstract
22:28 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/7b3e93b22179038ecf06b073c42a1c6b.txt
22:28 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bpl/psyp/2003/00000040/00000004/art00004
22:28 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/7ed2f4f47eae18a301ac0a6c73944675.txt
22:28 < Mokstar> whatever I think it means!
22:30 < kanzure> man what's the point of paperbot if everything is blocked
22:30 < Mokstar> scattering limits the precision
22:30 < Mokstar> in terms of surface area
22:31 < kanzure> paperbot is just a reminder of how much crap i can't read.
22:39 < Mokstar> looking like 660nm
22:40 < Mokstar> ... is that a twist tie?
22:40 < Mokstar> http://bio-medical.com/products/heg-nir-headband.html
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22:52 < Mokstar> Mechanistic claims are unsupported as no reverse causal relationship between blood flow increase and neuronal activity has been found yet [7]
22:52 < Mokstar> :(
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