--- Log opened Tue May 14 00:00:26 2013 00:01 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:03 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@64-13-15-38.eug.clearwire-dns.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:03 < delinquentme> paperbot, http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nn401094s 00:03 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Large-Scale%20Roll-to-Roll%20Fabrication%20of%20Vertically%20Oriented%20Block%20Copolymer%20Thin%20Films.txt 00:15 -!- endonuclease [~Adium@ip174-67-229-244.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:22 -!- endonuclease [~Adium@ip174-67-229-244.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:23 -!- endonuclease [~Adium@ip174-67-229-244.oc.oc.cox.net] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 00:24 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@64-13-15-38.eug.clearwire-dns.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:30 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:30 -!- klafka_ 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[~k@d149-67-118-140.col.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Changing host] 09:06 -!- soylentbomb [~k@unaffiliated/soylentbomb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:16 -!- marciogm [~textual@177.106.22.106] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:25 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:42 < kanzure> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/firefox-os-simulator/ 09:47 < kanzure> weird, asimov.freenode.net is still down 09:50 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:50 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:06 -!- Charlie [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:20 -!- marciogm [~textual@177.106.22.106] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:24 -!- saurik_ is now known as saurik 10:33 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:35 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Client Quit] 10:35 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:43 -!- soylentbomb [~k@unaffiliated/soylentbomb] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:57 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:03 -!- wizrobe [~userdi@c-76-23-254-105.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:03 -!- wizrobe is now known as wibzor 11:15 < wibzor> The two Foundational Pillars of Stoner Philosophy 11:15 < wibzor> " What is true for you is not true for me" 11:15 < wibzor> and 11:15 < wibzor> "What exists for you does not exist for me." 11:18 -!- ianmathwiz7 [~chatzilla@nat-portal-160-94-47-16.uofm.wireless.umn.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:19 -!- ianmathwiz7 [~chatzilla@nat-portal-160-94-47-16.uofm.wireless.umn.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 11:22 < kanzure> wibzor: why are you here. go away. 11:23 -!- ielo [~ielo@cpc9-addl4-2-0-cust229.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:24 < wibzor> kanzure I accidently the wrong window 11:51 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:29 -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@adsl-64-169-36-85.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:49 < heath> hai guise 12:50 -!- makoLime [~mako@103-9-42-128.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:58 -!- yorick_ is now known as yorick 12:59 < kanzure> heath: yes? 13:17 < heath> just saying hi 13:17 < kanzure> heath: do you like javascript? 13:17 < kanzure> heath: want to write some for me? i have money. 13:18 < heath> i think i have the only physical copy of the ecmascript 5.1 standard 13:18 < heath> so yeah 13:18 < heath> but i'm actually writing python for a telecom out of cali 13:18 < heath> whatcha need written though? 13:19 < kanzure> all sorts of things; i hate javascript and it infuriates me, but i've written a bunch of commonjs modules and i hate them. did i mention i hate it? 13:19 < heath> i don't think you mentioned it 13:21 < heath> got the second js meetup of birmingham in just 2.5hrs: http://meetup.com/bhm-js 13:21 < kanzure> also, it's not emcascript 5.1 but rather this insanely old version of JavaScriptCore from webkit 534.34 13:21 < kanzure> so there's no arraybuffers or whatever 13:21 < heath> there are libs for compile es5.1 to es whatever 13:22 < kanzure> also you get no source maps 13:22 < kanzure> and very few npm modules work in this environment because it's not a webpage context 13:22 < kanzure> but it's not the nodejs engine either 13:23 < heath> i probably wouldn't have mind helping this past weekend, but i'm already committed on finishing this orderbook for a guy 13:24 < kanzure> no, this would be paid work, so it probably wouldn't happen on a weekend unless you work weekends 13:24 < heath> how much are we talking an hour? 13:24 < kanzure> we could negotiate that. 13:25 < heath> if you can email details, i'll get back with you shortly 13:25 < kanzure> hey everyone look, this guy likes javascript 13:25 < kanzure> brownies: ^ 13:26 < kanzure> heath: okay 13:31 -!- zdap [~not@69.158.79.13] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32 < brownies> hahaha... nice coincidence 13:32 -!- zdap [~not@69.158.79.13] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:44 < juri_> kanzure: FWIW, i do run a business writing free software.. if you're needing something free software improved, let me know. i don't mind javascript, but i'm not quite a ninja, just a practitioner. 13:44 < juri_> i need to talk here more. projects have been taking my time away.. 13:44 < kanzure> no, it's not free software. 13:47 < juri_> mm. such is life. :) 14:05 -!- makoLime [~mako@103-9-42-128.flip.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:32 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:33 -!- cogitokat [~cogitokat@ip70-171-26-151.ga.at.cox.net] has quit [] 14:34 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:35 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Read error: 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joined ##hplusroadmap 15:24 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:34 -!- AirmanEpic [~AirmanEpi@c-71-200-49-51.hsd1.de.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:34 -!- Juul [~Juul@c-67-170-193-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:34 < AirmanEpic> hey, what's crackin? 15:36 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:44 -!- Juul [~Juul@c-67-170-193-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:46 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:47 < kanzure> AirmanEpic: yes ? 15:55 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:57 < AirmanEpic> nothing much, just stoping by to see what's up 15:57 < AirmanEpic> Trying to get into the whole DIY bio thing 15:58 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq 16:01 < AirmanEpic> ah, I see 16:02 -!- AirmanEpic [~AirmanEpi@c-71-200-49-51.hsd1.de.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: irc2go] 16:03 < kanzure> so much for that 16:07 < kanzure> "Rob Nail, Associate Founder, Singularity University" 16:07 < kanzure> .. associate founder? 16:09 < kanzure> "The team behind the Glowing Plant project on Kickstarter will be doing a Reddit AMA. This is an interesting project, pushing the boundaries fof synthetic biology," 16:09 < kanzure> what a fucking liar 16:11 < kanzure> in fact, i bet they can outsource their entire project to a standard CRO.. 16:13 < kanzure> i don't think bitbucket is taking my security vulnerability report seriously https://bitbucket.org/site/master/issue/7355/information-disclosure-vulnerability 16:32 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-53-135-65.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:33 < ParahSai1in> goddamn, had to make a jquery-ui widget 16:33 < klafka_> kanzure: yeah i was curious what you thought about this 16:33 < klafka_> it's clearly in no way pushing the boundaries of synthetic biology 16:34 < klafka_> it seems to be the first commercially available glowing plants? maybe i'm wrong 16:34 < ParahSai1in> its pushing the limits of how much technobabble a bain consulting scumbag can spew 16:34 < klafka_> lol 16:35 < eudoxia> so from what i've gather from skimreading these logs is the plant only glows in uv? 16:35 < eudoxia> and everyone thinks it will actually glow, and when it does ship all sorts of lawsuits will be filed and hilarity will ensue? 16:36 < klafka_> LOL 16:36 < klafka_> oh right because they don't have luciferase in them ? 16:38 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39 < kanzure> does anyone know if python dictionaries take advantage of constant lookup time, or what? 16:39 < ParahSai1in> erm, you realize that kickstarter projects are not actually liable to deliver any "gifts" to sponsors 16:39 < kanzure> i'd rather not have to watch http://www.pycon.tv/video/153/ 16:39 < kanzure> .title 16:39 < yoleaux> PyCon TV 16:39 < kanzure> oh fuck that. the title is "The mighty dictionary". 16:39 < ParahSai1in> its hash tables, so yeah approximately O[1] 16:39 < kanzure> are you sure it's hash tables? what if the keys aren't consecutive integers? 16:40 < ParahSai1in> its hash tables 16:41 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-53-135-65.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44 < ParahSai1in> why? 16:44 < kanzure> ParahSai1in: it seems like python's implementation makes collision lists, so it depends on the efficiency of that collision list. it looks like dictionary key lookup is bound by O(n) where n is the size of the collision list. 16:44 < ParahSai1in> https://github.com/schmir/python/blob/master/Objects/dictobject.c 16:44 < kanzure> what! you want me to use actual evidence! /me looks 16:45 -!- cogitokat [~cogitokat@209.251.152.97] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:46 -!- cogitokat [~cogitokat@209.251.152.97] has quit [Client Quit] 16:48 < kanzure> win 4 16:48 < kanzure> oops. 16:49 < ParahSai1in> a good heuristic is that if you are beginning to think about stuff like big-O notation, it's time to move to something more performative than python 16:50 < kanzure> ParahSai1in: i wrote a disassembler and added the ability to look up items in a sym file, except for some reason i wrote it as a list 16:50 < kanzure> on my system, it performs well in under 0.1s, but on someone else's system it's >3 seconds 16:50 < kanzure> so, using a sorted list or dictionary seems like a better idea 16:51 < ParahSai1in> dictionary is pretty fast because all object attribute lookups are dictionary lookups-- python would be hideously slow if dicts werent well-optimized 16:52 < kanzure> i think it should be possible to find a set of keys that would make dictionary lookups terribly slow, but i don't want to bother 16:52 < kanzure> anyway, yeah i should switch to using dicts. 16:52 < kanzure> for that label lookup thing. 16:53 < ParahSai1in> what sort of keys are you mapping to values 16:53 < kanzure> addresses between 0 and 0x100000 or something 16:53 < ParahSai1in> yeah, use dict 16:54 < ParahSai1in> well, list seems like it shouldnt be bad... 16:54 < kanzure> *shrug* i didn't use a dict originally because i didn't care, plus i noticed no negative performance characteristics. 16:54 < kanzure> i also didn't realize people were having problems. 16:55 < ParahSai1in> kanzure, neat trick is to rename module to pyx and compile it with cython 16:55 < kanzure> hahaha 16:55 < kanzure> "Hello BioCurious community," 16:55 < kanzure> "You've heard about the Glowing Plant project and the Kickstarter momentum that has built up behind it. While we are totally excited about their endeavor, we would like to reiterate where Biocurious actually stands with respect to Glowing Plant, and remind people of the media policy at the lab. " 16:55 < kanzure> "We are in the process of evaluating whether BioCurious can host the project, working with Antony Evans of the project team for the last three months to determine regulatory and safety issues that may be involved, and seeing if it's possible to do this work at BioCurious. This is still under review." 16:56 < kanzure> ParahSai1in: it's pushing the boundaries of our wallets 16:57 < ParahSai1in> ? 16:57 < kanzure> "pushing the boundaries of synthetic biology" 16:57 < ParahSai1in> ah 16:57 < kanzure> i was making a joke by saying "of our wallets". it's okay, it wasn't a very good joke anyway.. 16:59 < ParahSai1in> i really dont see why a list would be slow for such a lookup 16:59 < ParahSai1in> the frequently hit indices should get into cache 17:00 < kanzure> structure is [{"address": xyz, "line_number": z, "label": ""}, ...] 17:00 < klafka_> ParahSai1in: i really think that's not true at all re: big O notation - algorithmic speedups are typically way more important than language level speedups 17:00 < klafka_> like log n vs. quadratic or cubic 17:01 < ParahSai1in> kanzure, sounds like that should be a tuple 17:01 < kanzure> too late i'm already sold on dicts 17:01 < kanzure> i use dicts everywhere else anyway, dunno why this is an exception 17:03 < ParahSai1in> oh, wait what you have a list of those dicts and you're trying to find an object based on "address" of items? 17:03 < kanzure> yep. you should know that i didn't really think when i wrote this. 17:04 < ParahSai1in> Map Address (LineNumber, Label) 17:04 < kanzure> for each in somelist: if each["address"] == address... so O(n), hopefully sorted to reduce average case. 17:04 < ParahSai1in> lol 17:11 -!- ryankarason [~rak@cpe-76-189-227-224.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20 < ParahSai1in> something to show for spending entire day on some javascript ui garbage https://github.com/rcallahan/jquery-seqspinner 17:21 < kanzure> ParahSai1in: is nitpicking ok? 17:21 < ParahSai1in> yeah 17:21 < kanzure> i highly recommend turning this into a bower or npm module 17:21 < kanzure> example: https://github.com/trendalytics/bower-jquery-autocomplete 17:22 < ParahSai1in> oh 17:22 < ParahSai1in> didnt know there was package manager for js 17:22 < kanzure> npm is a package manager *primarily* for nodejs, but it also has loads of browser things 17:22 < kanzure> and the browserify module for node converts node-only modules to browser-compatible modules 17:23 < kanzure> bower is mostly front-end only javascript package management, except i'm not completely convinced yet. it seems like a thing worth trying. 17:23 < ParahSai1in> the most interesting thing in there is probably inosineTM(), which gives mostly passable estimation of annealing temp of probe containing inosines to a template 17:23 < kanzure> http://browserify.org/ 17:24 < ParahSai1in> the wetlab people didnt want to have to hit backspace and stuff when coming up with basically pcr primers for a template 17:24 < kanzure> http://npmjs.org/ is a large node/npm-compatible module repository 17:24 < kanzure> ah, i see 17:26 < ParahSai1in> can github display html? 17:26 < kanzure> only through a branch called gh-pages 17:26 < kanzure> and then they create a username.github.io/reponame/ site 17:32 < ParahSai1in> why is it telling me to type an unrecognized option "git checkout --orphan gh-pages" 17:32 < ParahSai1in> git doesnt have --orphan 17:40 < kanzure> git --version 17:43 < ParahSai1in> 1.7.1 17:47 < kanzure> they are up to 1.8.x 17:47 < kanzure> --orphan is sorta worth upgrading anyway 17:50 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Quit: the neuronal action potential is an electrical manipulation of reversible abrupt phase changes in the lipid bilayer] 17:54 -!- FooQuuxman [~test@c-98-215-254-55.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:59 < ParahSai1in> build error for git 18:02 -!- mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:04 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-138-251-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:08 -!- mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:13 < ParahSai1in> fuck its all broken 18:14 < ParahSai1in> how do i make a commit go away 18:15 < kanzure> what sorta go away? 18:21 < ParahSai1in> css broken but you get the idea http://rcallahan.github.io/jquery-seqspinner/ 18:22 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:25 -!- ryankarason [~rak@cpe-76-189-227-224.neo.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:28 -!- FooQuuxman [~test@c-98-215-254-55.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:11 < kanzure> yashgaroth: hey. 19:11 < yashgaroth> yo 19:12 -!- cogitokat [~cogitokat@ip70-171-26-151.ga.at.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:15 < kanzure> .title http://www.wired.co.uk/magazine/archive/2013/05/start/trust-me-im-a-friendly-biohacker 19:15 < yoleaux> Ellen Jorgensen is dragging genetic engineering away from the scare stories (Wired UK) 19:16 < kanzure> that's not exactly how you pipette 19:16 < kanzure> http://cdni.wired.co.uk/462x693/s_v/StartProfileEllen.jpg 19:16 < kanzure> that posture never happens 19:22 < yashgaroth> how can you pipette correctly without a severe hunch 19:38 < kanzure> ah yes, pipettor's scoliosis 19:43 -!- ryankarason [~rak@cpe-76-189-227-224.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:44 -!- Juul [~Juul@c-67-170-193-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:49 -!- Juul [~Juul@c-67-170-193-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:57 -!- FooQuuxman [~test@c-98-215-254-55.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:57 -!- ryankara1on [~rak@cpe-76-189-227-224.neo.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:07 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:10 < nmz787_> nah you can pipette like that 20:12 < ryankara1on> hello all. 20:14 < kanzure> nmz787_: sorry, i'll have to see evidence 20:16 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-138-251-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33 < nmz787_> you've never stood during lab work? 20:33 < kanzure> yes, but never with that posture 20:34 < kanzure> oh hm 20:34 < kanzure> i guess anything eye level maybe 20:34 < nmz787_> i'd probably have the desired volume line level with my eye 20:35 < nmz787_> but yeah i think it was more a photo demonstration pic 20:36 < nmz787_> unless maybe you were checking to make sure all the fluid left the pipette tip 20:44 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:46 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:50 -!- BlueberryPhi [IceChat7@adsl-068-209-178-163.sip.ilm.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:53 < BlueberryPhi> hello 20:57 < kanzure> BlueberryPhi: hi 20:57 < BlueberryPhi> Not very active at this time of day, huh? 20:57 < BlueberryPhi> anyway, hello, new here. 20:58 < kanzure> we're pretty active, you're just not looking hard enough 20:58 < nmz787_> what's up 20:58 < BlueberryPhi> ah, hi 20:58 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@node75.18.251.72.1dial.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:58 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@node75.18.251.72.1dial.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:58 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:59 < BlueberryPhi> I'm assuming people here are reasonably knowledgeable regarding synthetic biology and the means of creating/performing such? 20:59 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:00 < nmz787_> sure 21:00 < nmz787_> some of us 21:00 < BlueberryPhi> awesome. 21:01 < nmz787_> interested or already participating? 21:01 < BlueberryPhi> I'm trying to educate myself to the point where I can actually put together projects I come up with. 21:01 < BlueberryPhi> VERY interested, would love to participate but don't think I have the knowledge to do so just yet. 21:02 < nmz787_> open courseware, khan academy, "molecular biology of the gene" (book) 21:02 < juri_> read papers. a lot of them. ;) 21:02 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq 21:02 < BlueberryPhi> I have a general knowledge of genetics and biology, just not technical enough for actually doing anything with synthetic biology short of maybe inserting a single gene into a plasmid and using the electrical method whose name I cannot recall to transform a few bacteria. 21:03 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/books 21:03 < kanzure> electroporation 21:03 < BlueberryPhi> Thank you, that was it 21:03 < nmz787_> you gotta either be good at reading loads and loads on your own with no foreseeable goal, or you need to find some easy projects to use as stepping stones 21:03 < nmz787_> carolina bio sells some nice kits 21:03 < kanzure> also you need to either hijack a lab, buy equipment, or build equipment 21:03 < BlueberryPhi> I've been trying the "reading loads and loads" thing. It's having trouble sticking. 21:03 < BlueberryPhi> Think I might need to try the stepping stones method. 21:04 -!- Charlie [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:04 < kanzure> read everything here until it sticks: 21:04 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/ 21:04 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/ 21:04 < nmz787_> well nothing will stick if it doesn't fit into some framework 21:04 < BlueberryPhi> loading... 21:05 < nmz787_> so you need to help the framework along somehow too 21:05 < BlueberryPhi> got the page open, thanks. 21:05 < BlueberryPhi> nmz: you mean with the stepping stone projects? 21:05 < nmz787_> that could be it 21:05 < kanzure> this sounds very philosophical and wrong 21:06 < nmz787_> get some kombucha scoby and just keep it alive 21:06 < kanzure> nmz787_: did you look at my changes i made to your gist? 21:06 < nmz787_> hrm, no 21:06 < BlueberryPhi> ...yeah, I can tell I'm still new, I have no idea what kombucha scoby is. :P 21:06 < nmz787_> i have been doing not-computer things 21:06 < nmz787_> it's a hippy/yuppie drink 21:06 < kanzure> BlueberryPhi: learn to use google 21:07 < BlueberryPhi> looking it up, I know, I know 21:07 < nmz787_> SCOBY == symbiotic colony of bacteria and yeast 21:07 < BlueberryPhi> ah, thanks 21:07 < nmz787_> or something like that 21:08 < nmz787_> for getting into lab work quickly, community college classes are the best bang for your dollar 21:10 < kanzure> also if the class sucks you can skip without feeling bad about yourself 21:10 -!- mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:10 < nmz787_> kanzure: oh actually I had looked at the diff 21:11 < nmz787_> but honestly finding a niche is a long process 21:11 < nmz787_> so don't expect to become a magician overnight 21:11 < BlueberryPhi> mostly I want to know how to do my own projects rather than repeat the specific projects of a lab class. I don't know what it is, lab classes don't stick with me like most people. I think it's the combination of the deadline and the already-set list of instructions. 21:12 < BlueberryPhi> oh I'm not 21:12 < BlueberryPhi> I just want something that can help my understanding and ability, like the cell cultures, grow. :P 21:14 < BlueberryPhi> I'd be mind-bendingly happy if I could successfully write a gene to make a petri dish glow when I turn the lights out. 21:15 < kanzure> most of biology is following previous instructions, because otherwise nothing would ever work. ever. 21:15 < juri_> start by reproducing the open work. :) 21:15 < nmz787_> well the nice thing about community college is you can treat it like summer camp, or a hobby art class or something 21:15 < BlueberryPhi> Hm, might try that, Juri. Thanks. :) 21:15 < nmz787_> whatever you like doing for relaxation 21:15 < juri_> one step further than whats documented is a success, and each step after that is a new win. :) 21:16 < nmz787_> forget the deadlines and papers 21:16 < nmz787_> just make your experiment work 21:16 < nmz787_> unless you want a degree/credits/certification 21:16 < nmz787_> then you need to either settle for bad grades and good experience, or drop everything else and focus hard to keep it together and remembered 21:16 < nmz787_> but it sounds like you're here because that option sounds horrible 21:17 < nmz787_> ;) 21:17 < BlueberryPhi> heh 21:17 < nmz787_> i agree, reproduction is key 21:17 < BlueberryPhi> mostly because it's not entirely an option. ;) 21:17 < nmz787_> you can discuss with others on a common level when it doesn't work 21:17 < BlueberryPhi> alright. 21:17 < nmz787_> if you're doing novel stuff, you might not be able to talk to anyone abou tit 21:18 < nmz787_> there are often parts of a protocol (instructions, recipe) that can be modified without screwing the results 21:18 < BlueberryPhi> well, I do have some ideas that are sound in theory... But for instance, that glowing-tree project. I'd LOVE to be able to help with that in some way where I knew what I was doing. 21:18 < BlueberryPhi> but yeah 21:18 < nmz787_> during my school lab work, i try to identify those key critical points before starting an experiment 21:18 < BlueberryPhi> I'll look into just reproducing results for a while, and work my way up. 21:19 < BlueberryPhi> thanks. :) 21:19 < kanzure> BlueberryPhi: that glowing tree project is full of shit, just fyi 21:19 < nmz787_> and sometimes do multiple experiments in parallel (if there are enough reagents and time) to try and uphold/disprove my intuitions of the key points 21:20 < kanzure> it was also funny to see biocurious sending out an email today saying that the glowtree guys haven't actually been approved to work at biocurious 21:20 < BlueberryPhi> mostly I'm here because my eyes glaze over against my will when I encounter too much technical text at once. :P 21:20 < kanzure> maybe you should fix that 21:20 < kanzure> you might have an ocular problem 21:20 < BlueberryPhi> heh 21:20 < kanzure> i am serious 21:20 < BlueberryPhi> nah, it's not that. 21:21 < nmz787_> you need to get in the habit of getting completely through a complex paper 21:21 < nmz787_> google every word you don't know 21:21 < BlueberryPhi> I know. 21:21 < nmz787_> and keep branching out when you don't know words 21:21 < kanzure> this should be 200-300 queries per paper at least 21:22 -!- rigel_ is now known as rigel 21:22 < BlueberryPhi> I can get through it. Just a pain to get it both mentally translated AND having it stick. 21:22 < BlueberryPhi> but anyway 21:22 < BlueberryPhi> I'll work at it. 21:23 < BlueberryPhi> And thanks for the suggestions. 21:23 < nmz787_> yeah, it helps to troll professors at colleges 21:23 < nmz787_> sometimes they're way too busy and will not respond to your email or personal visits 21:23 < nmz787_> but other profs are starved for interested people to talk to 21:24 < BlueberryPhi> I'll keep that in mind. 21:24 < nmz787_> or maybe a journal reading club 21:25 < nmz787_> body language can help, and meeting people in public, but chatting here is darn effective 21:25 < BlueberryPhi> I live in the sticks, unfortunately for this sake. 21:25 < nmz787_> as long as you can effectively communicate or at least want to! 21:25 < kanzure> my problem with journal clubs is that often the papers are boring (i don't mind when the presenter is boring, but the paper has to be worthwhile) 21:25 < kanzure> there's one at ut austin that's been around forever, but they only read very esoteric ion channel papers 21:25 < nmz787_> i haven't actually looked for journal clubs around here 21:26 < BlueberryPhi> I'll try to make an effort to come around to this channel more often, though 21:26 < kanzure> and it's not even useful ion channel things, more like "here's a paper where people document what happened when they investigated the 2000th ion channel from a random cell in some random spider" 21:26 < kanzure> gee my summary made it sound more interesting than it actually is 21:26 < BlueberryPhi> heh 21:31 < nmz787_> do you have any idea of what you'd like to play with? 21:31 < kanzure> he said glowing trees :( 21:31 < nmz787_> like, bacteria, yeast, mold, horses, seals, manatees, peanuts, ferns 21:32 < BlueberryPhi> well 21:32 < BlueberryPhi> in all honesty? 21:32 < nmz787_> yeah 21:32 < BlueberryPhi> a little bit of everything. :P 21:32 < BlueberryPhi> I know, I know, not practical. 21:32 < nmz787_> live near any zoos? 21:32 < BlueberryPhi> or likely possible 21:32 < BlueberryPhi> heh 21:33 < nmz787_> most of them have internships 21:33 < BlueberryPhi> Live near a vet's office. They're not hiring anyone, I asked. 21:33 < BlueberryPhi> But at the moment I just want to understand the programmable nature of synthetic biology to where I can program my own custom genes. 21:34 < BlueberryPhi> probably start out with bacteria. 21:34 < nmz787_> i haven't figured out a good way to say 'i'll work for cheap if you teach me stuff a little' 21:34 < kanzure> that's called "internship" 21:34 < nmz787_> hah 21:34 < nmz787_> i guess 21:34 < BlueberryPhi> heh 21:35 < nmz787_> you need to learn organic and some physical chemistry 21:36 < BlueberryPhi> yeah, I know a little, but not enough 21:36 < nmz787_> BlueberryPhi: read anselms responses, at least, from here https://groups.google.com/d/msg/diybio/GxRTESzUWUI/zd5MpKNzBzgJ 21:37 < BlueberryPhi> thanks. :) 21:38 < BlueberryPhi> anyway, this has given me some to think about and read on and look up. :) 21:40 < kanzure> paperbot: http://arxiv.org/abs/1205.5252 21:40 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Minor%20arcs%20for%20Goldbach%27s%20problem.pdf 21:40 < kanzure> .title https://plus.google.com/114134834346472219368/posts/8qpSYNZFbzC 21:40 < yoleaux> Terence Tao - Google+ - Busy day in analytic number theory; Harald Helfgott has… 21:41 < kanzure> .title http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2012/05/20/heuristic-limitations-of-the-circle-method/ 21:41 < yoleaux> Heuristic limitations of the circle method | What's new 21:41 < kanzure> .title http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2012/02/01/every-odd-integer-larger-than-1-is-the-sum-of-at-most-five-primes/ 21:41 < yoleaux> Every odd integer larger than 1 is the sum of at most five primes | What's new 21:43 < BlueberryPhi> I'm gonna log out. I'll try to check back in more often. :) Thanks again, guys 21:43 < kanzure> nasa ntrs collections (all partial): 21:43 < kanzure> http://www.aric.or.kr/ 21:44 < kanzure> http://digital.library.unt.edu/explore/collections/NACA/ 21:44 -!- BlueberryPhi [IceChat7@adsl-068-209-178-163.sip.ilm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: On the other hand, you have different fingers.] 21:44 < kanzure> http://archive.org/details/nasa_techdocs (which is already fairly well publicized) 21:44 < kanzure> http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/ 21:44 < kanzure> http://ws-dl.blogspot.com/2013/03/2013-03-22-ntrs-web-archives-and-why-we.html 21:48 -!- Zarakii [~devillll@ppp-46-244-168-65.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:48 -!- jrayhawk_ is now known as jrayhawk 21:51 -!- Suwap [~devillll@ppp-46-244-168-65.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:56 -!- wibzor [~userdi@c-76-23-254-105.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:00 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: zubaz, yashgaroth, ivan`, abumirqaan, hehehelleshin, ParahSai1in, DonnchaC 22:03 -!- Netsplit over, joins: yashgaroth, zubaz, hehehelleshin, abumirqaan, ivan`, ParahSai1in, DonnchaC 22:04 -!- mako [~mako@103-9-42-128.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:05 -!- wizrobe [~userdi@c-76-23-254-105.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:41 -!- Zarakii [~devillll@ppp-46-244-168-65.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:42 -!- Suwap [~devillll@ppp-46-244-168-65.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:07 -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@adsl-64-169-36-85.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10 -!- ielo [~ielo@cpc9-addl4-2-0-cust229.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:45 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:59 -!- mako is now known as makoLime --- Log closed Wed May 15 00:00:27 2013