--- Log opened Fri May 17 00:00:29 2013
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01:51 < nmz787_> kanzure: just bought a bluray burner to see if I can mod for exposing photoresist
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01:58 < nmz787_> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/05/human-flesh-copyright/
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02:01 < chris_99> are you planning on diffusing the laser
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02:06 < nmz787_> nah
02:07 < nmz787_> this paper said 2mm from the existing optics
02:07 < nmz787_> as is it's around .3mm
02:07 < nmz787_> so i have to figure out how to shim it or something (hopefully shim it)
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07:25 < kanzure> "Sample size of one, granted, but with respect to aerothermal effects of protuberances the Chinese are copying US research to bootstrap their own. A number of journal papers in Acta Mechanica Sinica cite NASA-specific reports in setting up and confirming their wind tunnel research. In 2007 at NASA we ran a protuberance heating test (UHR-1) which was designated as ITAR specifically in reaction to this research. ne interesting test they did was ...
07:25 < kanzure> ... fundamental and well designed w/r/t to scaling parameters, but the rest are specific protuberances on cones and cylinders (I'll leave it as an exercise to the interested student the likely application) ( I have an extensive collection of aerthermal and protuberance papers from NTRS and other US and foreign sources. If a serious project is started to host these 'misfit papers' let me know. )"
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09:38 < kanzure> .title https://plus.google.com/117663015413546257905/posts/hC5jq3vy3xM
09:38 < yoleaux> John Baez - Google+ - Check out Anselm Levskaya's program called polyHédronisme,…
09:39 < kanzure> http://levskaya.github.io/polyhedronisme/
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10:42 < kanzure> http://www.patinformatics.com/blog/the-linear-law-of-patent-analysis-revisited/ this article makes no sense. it's supposed to be about "patent analytics" but all i hear are the usual mumblings about how enterprise software sucks.
10:42 < kanzure> .title http://www.infotoday.com/searcher/oct02/trippe.htm
10:42 < yoleaux> Patinformatics: Identifying Haystacks from Space
10:42 < kanzure> "Generally, when individuals think about patent information they conjure up an image of a diligent searcher, poring over reams and reams of information, looking for the one reference out of hundreds, maybe thousands, that will satisfy their client."
10:42 < kanzure> "Patent intelligence — The use of patent information to identify the technical capabilities of an organization and the use of that intelligence to develop a strategy for strategic technical planning"
10:43 < kanzure> "Patent mapping — Sometimes described as white space mapping, which uses published patent data to create a graphical or physical representation of the relevant art pertaining to a particular subject area or novel invention"
10:43 < kanzure> "Patent citation analysis — the study of patent citations for potentially determining a patent's value or, perhaps more reliably, the identification of potential licensing partners or leads based on the citation of an organization's patents by another company in the same or a completely different market space"
10:46 < kanzure> looks pretty boring. i remember there was that one javascript demo on top of WIPO patent data but it didn't seem to do anything interesting.
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11:22 < Mokstar> anybody have this one yet? http://www.jneurosci.org/content/28/52/14147.short
11:22 < Mokstar> Increasing Human Brain Excitability by Transcranial High-Frequency Random Noise Stimulation
11:22 < kanzure> https://github.com/kliment/chemobot "Robot for automated chemistry experiments"
11:22 < kanzure> https://github.com/kliment/dozer "An automated printed part mover"
11:22 < Mokstar> hah, n/m: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/28/52/14147.full
11:22 < kanzure> https://github.com/kliment/dye "Open hardware yarn dye device"
11:23 < kanzure> https://github.com/kliment/Splotbot "Liquid pick and place robot" (in openscad)
11:23 < kanzure> fenn: that should be packaged.
11:27 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/28/52/14147.full
11:27 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Increasing%20Human%20Brain%20Excitability%20by%20Transcranial%20High-Frequency%20Random%20Noise%20Stimulation.pdf
11:33 < fenn> there's already enough high frequency random noise in your brain
11:35 < Mokstar> what are you trying to say?
11:36 < Mokstar> that it's a bad thing to add more, or that the technique is actually ineffective despite the results of the experiments?
11:37 < Mokstar> fenn,
11:37 < fenn> uh, it was a joke about kanzure's ADHD-like personality
11:37 < Mokstar> ahh, ok
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11:50 < fenn> interesting paper, if somewhat confusing
11:55 < kanzure> actually, i thought splotbot.git would be more relevant to your interests than that paper.
11:56 < fenn> meh. what is it, a reprap with a syringe? why can't he bother to fill out the README file
11:57 < klafka_> readme's are for suckers fenn come on read all the source code !
11:58 < Mokstar> So, is tRNS the same thing as tDCS, but with a wildly varying current level?
11:58 < Mokstar> or the same thing as tACS with a wildly varying frequency
11:58 < fenn> Mokstar: i'm still trying to figure that out.. whether the signal is completely DC or only partially biased
11:59 < Mokstar> Because of the statistical characteristics, the signal has no DC offset, provided that the offset is set to zero.
11:59 < fenn> then it's tACS
12:00 < kanzure> fenn: ok i filed bug reports for splotbot.git, dozer.git, chemobot.git.
12:00 < Mokstar> but varying from 1-640hz
12:00 < fenn> Mokstar: note the plot in figure 1 is centered around 0 uA
12:01 < Mokstar> ahh, ok
12:01 < Mokstar> so, how do I make an arduino do that...
12:04 < fenn> i guess you'd use an audio amp like TL071 or something along those lines
12:08 < fenn> wah i suck at reading analog datasheets
12:11 < fenn> not TL071, that's an op-amp, not an audio amp :P
12:14 < fenn> anyway, to get rid of DC bias you can put a small capacitor in series. to generate random waveform just make a big lookup table with a script and compile it into the code
12:14 < fenn> i was thinking lm386, not tl071
12:15 < fenn> this is such a low frequency you can use pretty much anything, just make sure that it's a current source
12:15 < kanzure> hah CVE-2013-3335 is another adobe flash vulnerability from 2013-05-16, and says "allow attackers to execute arbitrary code or cause a denial of service (memory corruption) via unspecified vectors, a different vulnerability than CVE-2013-2728, CVE-2013-3324, CVE-2013-3325, CVE-2013-3326, CVE-2013-3327, CVE-2013-3328, CVE-2013-3329, CVE-2013-3330, CVE-2013-3331, CVE-2013-3332, CVE-2013-3333, and CVE-2013-3334." you know, just to be clear that ...
12:15 < kanzure> ... the past few months of vulnerabilities are different vulns.
12:17 < Mokstar> hmm
12:17 < Mokstar> I  like arduinos, because they're $5
12:18 < chris_99> are they? i thought they where like £20
12:18 < Mokstar> naa, I got a few Mini Pro's on ebay for ~$5/ea from China
12:18 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_source#Op-amp_current_sources except you will be using the arduino output instead of the zener diode
12:19 < Mokstar> a little wider than a postage stamp
12:19 < chris_99> aha cool
12:19 < fenn> what chip is a "mini pro"?
12:20 < Mokstar> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Pro-Mini-atmega328-5V-16M-Replace-ATmega128-Arduino-Compatible-Nano-/130839929399?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e76aae237
12:20 < Mokstar> sorry, pro mini
12:20 < Mokstar> atmega328
12:20 < Mokstar> also you can run it on 12v
12:20 < fenn> why not just use the atmega128 in DIP
12:20 < Mokstar> because that's $5 and ready to go
12:20 < fenn> 328*
12:21 < fenn> but.. but..
12:22 < Mokstar> if I got a bare atmega328 I'd have to put it on a board, add some more electronics, etc
12:22 < chris_99> ah no usbs
12:22 < Mokstar> yeah, but I just got a usb/ttl adapter for $2
12:24 < fenn> hm. well i've carefully weighed all the arguments and it has the advantage of having an LED
12:24 < fenn> and that's probably worth a dollar
12:25 < fenn> i can't tell if i'm joking or not
12:25 < Mokstar> and a reset button
12:25 < fenn> yes, because unplugging it is so hard
12:25 < Mokstar> and it's smaller and thinner, and has solder points
12:27 < fenn> it's sort of ironic because the whole reason they used atmega328 in the first place was that it was one of the few that came in DIP
12:29 < fenn> anyway do make sure you test it with an oscilloscope first, and always run from battery when it's attached to your head
12:30 < kanzure> and test it on something else first. maybe there's a good way to test a block of meat.
12:30 < fenn> you can't electrocute yourself with AA batteries
12:31 < ParahSailin> is that a challenge?
12:31 < fenn> but i suspect he's trying to get an AC waveform, which is hard to confirm without a scope
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12:32 < chris_99> is there any evidence tDCS is beneficial
12:32 < kanzure> finer have never, etc. he's dead now.
12:32 < fenn> mokstar has quit [brain overloaded]
12:33 < fenn> chris_99: yes it's been shown to increase learning rate, and some other stuff i havent paid much attention to
12:34 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/tdcs/
12:34 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/tdcs/Time-dependent%20effect%20of%20transcranial%20direct%20current%20stimulation%20on%20the%20enhancement%20of%20working%20memory.pdf
12:34 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/tdcs/Consensus%20-%20can%20transcranial%20direct%20current%20stimulation%20and%20transcranial%20magnetic%20stimulation%20enhance%20motor%20learning%20and%20memory%20formation.pdf
12:36 < kanzure> the main advantage of tdcs compared to other brain stimulation techniques is that it's dramatically easier to build.
12:36 < chris_99> yeah
12:36 < kanzure> so even if it sucks at targeted stimulation, or even if it only has one or two novel ways of stimulating certain brain regions, it's still worth considering.
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12:48 < Kliment> Oh crap
12:48 < kanzure> Kliment: hi there, could you tell us things about chemobot.git and splotbot.git?
12:48 < Kliment> kanzure: Yes, what do you want to know?
12:49 < kanzure> an overview would be nice. what's included in the cad models, is there working firmware somewhere, is there a prototype, what have you done?
12:49 < Kliment> The only thing I can think of that would generate more negative media hype than an open source automatedly replicable gun are open source automatedly replicable drugs.
12:49 < kanzure> we already replicate drugs with bacteria, let's move on to the next catastrophe.
12:49 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq
12:49 < fenn> a small photo or screenshot would be nice too
12:49 < Kliment> Okay. Splotbot was a liquid handling robot that I built for a university in Denmark to replace a grad student and a pipette
12:50 < Kliment> Said grad student posted many videos of its operation, stand by and I'll link one
12:50 < kanzure> what form factor?
12:50 < kanzure> i mean, form factor of the robot, not the grad student.
12:50 < kanzure> there's https://github.com/delinquentme/lh001
12:50 < kanzure> .title
12:50 < Kliment> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crzPESP-tyA
12:50 < yoleaux> delinquentme/LH001 · GitHub
12:50 < kanzure> .title http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY5IY5CZ1es
12:50 < yoleaux> LH001 - YouTube
12:50 < kanzure> .title http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crzPESP-tyA
12:50 < yoleaux> Splotbot - YouTube
12:51 < Kliment> That form factor
12:51 < kanzure> ok so it is based on reprap. is it based on timschmidt's parametric reprap .scad files?
12:51 < Kliment> No and no
12:51 < Kliment> Electronics and firmware are from reprap
12:51 < kanzure> it says "built with reprap". i guess they mean the parts were printed on reprap things.
12:51 < Kliment> And yes, it was printed
12:52 < Kliment> But if you see it as a reprap, it's a severely gutted one
12:52 < Kliment> Much less precision, no z axis, not level at all
12:52 < kanzure> did you ever see adrian bowyer's automated syringe pump thing? i could never find schematics.
12:52 < Kliment> Didn't need it in this application
12:53 < Kliment> I have a syringe pump design or three
12:53 < Kliment> I'll get to that in a bit
12:53 < kanzure> Kliment: one of the things we do is package up open hardware into standard .git files with some approachable metadata
12:53 < fenn> what sort of application uses only 3 syringes with no disposable tips?
12:53 < Kliment> fenn: There are 6 syringe holders and one gripper on that carriage
12:53 < Kliment> fenn: And all the tips are disposable
12:54 < fenn> okay but typically things are using 96 or more tips per experiment
12:54 < Kliment> fenn: Depends what things
12:54 < Kliment> fenn: This one was for studying fluid droplet behavior
12:54 < kanzure> oh, not biology things
12:54 < Kliment> kanzure: No, chemistry things
12:55 < kanzure> in biology projects, things go wrong all the time unless you replace tips after every use (or something)
12:55 < Kliment> I know
12:55 < Kliment> I've worked with enough biologists and seen many lovely robotic bio labs
12:55 < kanzure> are you aware of http://search.cpan.org/~jcline/Robotics-0.23/lib/Robotics/Tecan.pm
12:56 < Kliment> No. Is that for jointed arms?
12:56 < fenn> it's for a standard biology pipetting robot
12:56 < kanzure> the "tecan" branded robots.
12:57 < fenn> cartesian, sometimes with plate stackers
12:57 < kanzure> they do plate stackers?
12:57 < ParahSailin> yeah the biology robots never replace tips
12:57 < Kliment> I've seen them but never used them
12:57 < ParahSailin> the "tips" are more of flat needles
12:58 < Kliment> So chemobot is a firmware hack to allow multiple servos to coexist with a grbl motion planner
12:59 < Kliment> It's obsolete now I think, Triffid_Hunter has a better solution
12:59 < Kliment> Or am I thinking of the wrong repo, stand by
13:00 < Kliment> I am, never mind
13:00 < fenn> this pictures shows both kinds of tips https://embl.fr/htxlab/images/stories/Tecan.jpg
13:00 < Kliment> chemobot is like splotbot but using standard 20mm tslot
13:01 < Kliment> fenn: Holy fuck that is really dangerously close to the operator
13:01 < Kliment> fenn: And not enclosed at all
13:01 < fenn> the magenta box in the middle is a set of disposable tips
13:01 < Kliment> fenn: I guess it's not being used for anything important
13:02 < Kliment> fenn: If it was, it would be a huge contamination risk
13:02 < Kliment> And yeah, I have seen that machine before
13:02 < fenn> most bio isn't dangerous at all
13:02 < fenn> or did you mean contaminating the experiment
13:02 < kanzure> biggest danger is you contaminating your sample by breathing on it
13:02 < Kliment> fenn: Not to the operator, to the experiment
13:02 < Kliment> kanzure: Exactly
13:03 < kanzure> it's like a game of operation except nobody wins..
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13:03 < Kliment> Who cares about the operator. :P
13:04 < Kliment> The grad student managed to program the machine to stab him with nitrobenzene
13:04 < fenn> in all the experiments i did, the main issue was cross contamination
13:04 < Kliment> Which, if you are familiar with nitrobenzene, is a very very bad idea
13:06 < Kliment> Still, I'd at least stick a couple sheets of acrylic around the operator seat on that machine
13:07 < fenn> i think the fear of robots/safety culture is a little misguided
13:08 < fenn> yeah a kuka assembly robot is nothing to mess with, but a little desktop pipettor won't kill you
13:09 < kanzure> with ads like these how can you say no to kuka? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgA396HOr4Q&list=PL0EB93E6E02E5CF17&index=60
13:09 < kanzure> (kidding)
13:11 < fenn> i'm amazed they continue to do the legoland "robocoaster" without incident
13:12 < Kliment> fenn: Had the needle not just been coated with dilute nitrobenzene but actually injected the stuff it would have killed him
13:12 < fenn> who needs a roll cage when you've got software to protect you
13:12 < Kliment> fenn: So not misguided when dealing with highly toxic chemicals
13:12 < kanzure> time for a dose of hard labor, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LCaRqQ8Qf8&list=PL0EB93E6E02E5CF17
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13:16 < kanzure> oh wow, a lot of videos deleted on that playlist. i guess people don't want automation ideas to escape or something.
13:17 < nmz787> this is like some cut-scene of the village people dancing in a factory
13:17 < nmz787> except more nerdy
13:17 < kanzure> whole playlist is nerdtastic.
13:17 < nmz787> vry appropriate
13:18 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEV6GnVWdYI&list=PL0EB93E6E02E5CF17#t=50s
13:18 < nmz787> D-I-Y you know I'm talking about D-I-Y
13:18 < nmz787> D_I_Y D_I_Y D I Y!
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13:24 < kanzure> 'haas factory tour' this one looks new.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScnzJJRFsGI
13:25 < fenn> "The first set (of crash test dummies) were given a ride on the ROBO Coaster with Speed and accel set to max. When the the ride finished the G forces had ripped off all the limbs from the torso. They have slowed it down. I still want to ride it though."
13:26 < kanzure> haas has 1 million sq ft?
13:26 < kanzure> why can't i have a machine shop that big?
13:28 < kanzure> oh good they dogfood their own machines.
13:29 < kanzure> "5 cells, 1652 tools, 16 palettes"... i want?
13:33 < kanzure> huh so they just store the haas cnc center palettes outside before shipping them. i wonder if you can just drive up and load one up on a truck at night.
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18:35 < ParahSai1in> this is a dump of something, though im not sure what ftp://s208.math.msu.su/
18:36 < ParahSai1in> ah well crap its all in cyrillic
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23:50 < Kliment> ParahSai1in: I can read cyrillic
--- Log closed Sat May 18 00:00:30 2013