--- Log opened Mon Jun 24 00:00:05 2013
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00:47 < nmz787_> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/npg.els.0001315/pdf
00:47 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/a375dff30f61d2121895cc04e927557a.txt
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06:29 < brownies> .meow
06:29 < yoleaux> http://moar.edgecats.net/cats/tumblr_m7826eejVA1rqz8qx.gif
06:39 < ThomasEgi> http://volldost.soup.io/post/320774644/yungsang
06:59 -!- abumirqaan is now known as upgrayeddd
07:05 < jonathan___> http://aptamerbase.semanticscience.org/
07:05 < jonathan___> What is the Aptamer Base?
07:05 < jonathan___> The Aptamer Base is a collaboratively created knowledge base about aptamers. Aptamers are short sinlge stranded nucleic acids or amino acid polymers that recognize and bind to targets with high affinity and selectivity. Nucleic acid aptamers are tipically isolated from large combinatorial libraries through the application of SELEX. The Aptamer Base has been built on Freebase (a free openly licensed community built resource for
07:05 < jonathan___> structured data). Freebase organizes over 360 million facts into bases, collections of thematically related topics. The Aptamer Base is one such collection which contains expert curated descriptions of in vitro created sequences and related experiments.
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07:49 < kanzure> bosslab bioreactor https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ODEMXOP1Nl8/UchRK2BkZ5I/AAAAAAAAAIc/q5dQLHI8hOc/s1600/20130623_162903.jpg
07:49 < kanzure> haha freebase. they were acquired by google a while back.
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08:02 < jonathan___> geez the market is such a pain in my bernanke
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13:33 < heath> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmTNtSs1UQY
13:33 < yoleaux> Joseph Jackson (wtf) - YouTube
13:33 < heath> never gets old
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14:01 < ParahSai1in> paperbot: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0042543
14:01 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Not%20All%20Sequence%20Tags%20Are%20Created%20Equal%3A%20Designing%20and%20Validating%20Sequence%20Identification%20Tags%20Robust%20to%20Indels.pdf
14:01 < ParahSai1in> ^ we independently did the exact same thing
14:04 < ParahSai1in> pretty sure you can't fit 8000 3-distance sequences in 10mer space though
14:09 < ParahSai1in> er nevermind, it was 4 distance that wouldn't fit that much-- at 4 edits you can only fit about 4k in there
14:34 < kanzure> ParahSai1in: having fun repeating work?
15:03 < ParahSai1in> nah, i did that a couple months before that was published
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18:23 < kanzure> yashgaroth: hi
18:24 < yashgaroth> sup
18:25 < kanzure> pondering how to reframe the "whistleblower vs spy" question for snowden/assange/manning.
18:25 < kanzure> it should be something like.. "freedom blower".
18:25 < kanzure> but, you know, good.
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18:27 < yashgaroth> hmm
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18:34 < jonathan___> austin is all over the news due to affirmative action supreme court ruling
18:35 < jonathan___> I'd love to know why my affirmative action bid also didn't work
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18:35 < kanzure> there were two girls in that lawsuit originally
18:35 < kanzure> the one that isn't mentioned in the article went to middle and high school with me. rode my bus.
18:36 < jonathan___> since I was the only white guy in a program otherwise filled with 30 asians/indians
18:36 < kanzure> she was complaining about these problems back then. hehe.
18:37 < kanzure> (rachel michalewicz)
18:37 < kanzure> it took me like 4 years to figure out how to spell her name, until i found a students.csv sitting on a server somewhere.
18:39 < kanzure> anywho i got into ut austin using the top 10% rule
18:39 < kanzure> and she was classize+1 person away from being included in top 10% or something.
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18:40 < jonathan___> wow
18:40 < jonathan___> how on earth are you the 10%
18:41 < kanzure> huh? anyone in top 10% counts. so top 1%, 3%, 5% etc.
18:41 < jonathan___> Ohhh
18:41 < yashgaroth> top 10% of what
18:42 < kanzure> shitty rule, though. #5 was a good person, studious, but was particularly clever about picking only classes that were guaranteed to keep a high gpa.
18:42 < kanzure> graduating class of the given school
18:42 < yashgaroth> ah
18:42 < jonathan___> Not sure how electrical engineering can possibly be affirmative action if everyone in the class is asian.  Hm, well I did have a lot of mexican immigrants in my classes too.  just zero white guys..  not very affirmative I guess.
18:42 < gradstudentbot> God, I'm going to quit.
18:42 < kanzure> gradstudentbot: you can't quit, you have a paper to write.
18:42 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, but who gets to be first author?
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18:43 < jonathan___> Hm, I slept thru calculus class because was up too late at night writing uber codez
18:44 < jonathan___> I don't think I would have made it in the top 1%.  10% not sure.
18:44 < kanzure> i took calculus before i could write fluent latex, and as a result all of calculus notes are in html.
18:44 < kanzure> huh, didn't know this.. "In 2011, Michalewicz withdrew from the case, leaving Fisher as the sole plaintiff.[5][8]"
18:45 < jonathan___> I remember one of the top %'er girls getting rejected from uc berkeley. supposedly she cried all night.  asian born in the u.s. to immigrant parents.   she later got in, on appeal.
18:45 < kanzure> it's stupid anyway, you can get in anywhere after a year of community college or if you become an employee in some cases
18:46 < jonathan___> I would guess texas has much better high schools than california anyway, california is one of the lower qualities
18:46 < kanzure> ut austin seemed to be the same as anywhere else. lots of extra resources. typical large-student intro classes.
18:46 < yashgaroth> depends what city, like anywhere
18:47 < kanzure> they wanted me to write visual basic scripts in the engineering intro course.. with excel macros.
18:47 < kanzure> was not impressed
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18:48 < jonathan___> Hm
18:48 < jonathan___> They really should have special tracks for some kids for sure.
18:49 < jonathan___> I could have finished an entire CS degree in parallel with high school no problem.
18:49 < kanzure> my special track was "work 3 lab jobs, hang out with cynical phd students, coauthor some papers with gradstudentbot, then drop out"
18:49 < gradstudentbot> Am I going to be first author?
18:49 < jonathan___> maybe something like:  audit the entire first 2 years of undergrad.
18:49 < kanzure> i think auditing is a good idea
18:49 < kanzure> i should have audited the courses that actually mattered. like the 400-level mechanical and electrical engineering courses.
18:50 < kanzure> it would be nice to actually know how to spell thievenen
18:50 < jonathan___> I audited some business classes.. lol..  could not believe the college kids complaining about how hard the quizzes were, what.
18:50 < kanzure> but yeah, a CS degree while in high school is definitely doable
18:51 < jonathan___> Unfortunately it ends up with the problem of being super young in the workplace then attempting to delegate work to 45 y/o's ... some of them are cool with this, some are not.
18:51 < kanzure> all of the intro courses were just so disappointing. what i needed to be forced to do was write compilers and grammars and haskell, and instead they wanted me to write windows script host and re-re-re-study the dot product or partial differential equations.
18:52 < kanzure> are you delegating work to people significantly older than you/
18:52 < jonathan___> definitely
18:52 < jonathan___> especially out of college
18:53 < jonathan___> just cause their title says "senior engineer" doesnt mean smart enough to get the job done..  it basically means, been around longer..  often doing a not-so-great job
18:54 < jonathan___> I remember several coworkers really took things very poorly..  imagine being handed a stack of specification document from a young kid and they can't understand how to implement it then I have to train them how to do it
18:54 < jonathan___> and then they still just squeak by
18:55 < kanzure> i am a big fan of the "arrive to a meeting over-prepared" method
18:55 < kanzure> where you show up with the plans that you recommend
18:55 < kanzure> since nobody else does this, usually your plans will be accepted
18:56 < kanzure> i have had no problems with teaching older people how to do things
18:56 < kanzure> today i gave a presentation about git to some people that are 3x my age
18:56 < kanzure> they really appreciated it and thanked me profusely
18:56 < jonathan___> well, did they show up voluntarily?  If so they already were open to it.
18:56 < kanzure> it was simple things like "don't call it origin, call it github" and "don't pull, use fetch and merge" and other platitudes.
18:56 < kanzure> oh good point, yes it was voluntary
18:57 < kanzure> ok evidence retracted
18:58 < jonathan___> one comment I've heard a lot thru the years, after I learn a new whatever in a couple weeks.  the senior guys like this will say "but you're young, so you can still learn fast"
18:58 < jonathan___> um, how about:  "you're dumb, so you'll never get it anyway"
18:59 < kanzure> haha, right, the "we'll just attribute it to the fact that you're young'
18:59 < kanzure> oops i mean ". shift key problems today.
19:01 < jonathan___> what is the perfect engineering job which can be done 100% remote and 100% without any hardware other than a laptop?
19:01 < gradstudentbot> I'm glad you brought that up, I'm going to do that right now.
19:01 < jonathan___> perfect meaning combination of:   highest pay, easiest work, fewest hours.
19:01 < kanzure> jonathan___: software
19:02 < kanzure> jonathan___: i'm in san jose this month doing a contracting gig for a few weeks (but soon it'll be remote-only)
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19:02 < kanzure> jonathan___: up for a quick phone call? i'd be happy to elaborate.
19:02 < kanzure> oh wait you're anti-phone
19:02 < kanzure> didn't think
19:04 < jonathan___> let me boot up my nsa-tapped skype
19:04 < kanzure> skype is inconvenient right now
19:04 < kanzure> there is nothing that i have to say to you that the nsa doesn't already know, but these are things you don't know
19:04 < klafka> lol
19:05 < jonathan___> skype is only on my end. call my 'mobile'
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19:43 < jonathan___> ben bernanke is like gum stuck on the sidewalk
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19:49 < ryankarason> have any of you used Big Blue Button?
19:49 < ryankarason> seems NSA-free:)
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19:50 < kanzure> jonathan___: my phone decided to reboot during our call
19:50 < jonathan___> blasted android!
19:50 < jonathan___> or.. the nsa
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19:51 < skyLotus> hey
19:52 < jonathan___> we'll catch up later when my wifi connection is better.  dropouts are lame.
19:53 < kanzure> jonathan___: ok. i was just going to describe a failure mode of memory that allows for 'bit squatting'. it's like domain name typo squatting except for memory failure causing a phone to send a different url. so i was thinking of bit squatting some ad networks to collect their errant data.
19:53 < ryankarason> use mumble:) it works with pretty low latency.
19:54 < jonathan___> ironic they call it mumble then eh?
19:54 < ryankarason> haha
19:54 < ryankarason> what i like about mumble is it takes out the noise from audio before it sends across the wire
19:54 < ryankarason> so you end up getting a higher good bit rate
19:55 < jonathan___> Um, at least that's what they say
19:55 < ryankarason> right right
19:55 < jonathan___> voice compression algs already do that
19:55 < ryankarason> but i have hosted a mumble server on a raspberry pi with crappy internet
19:55 < skyLotus> I'm looking into majors to pursue and I'm wondering if any of you can give some insight on what I'm thinking about
19:55 < ryankarason> and i was able to host 3 or 4 people without any noticeable lags
19:55 < jonathan___> don't major in BIO
19:56 < kanzure> biology is the worst thing to major in, if you want to be employable
19:56 < jonathan___> well raspberry pi has more than enough cpu power for multiple voice channels.. estimate 35 Mhz per channel.
19:56 < skyLotus> what about biomedical engineering?
19:56 < ryankarason> jonathan___: good point.
19:56 < jonathan___> heard complaints about biomed eng
19:56 < jonathan___> it's mostly mech eng with skeletons thrown in
19:57 < ryankarason> computer science is a guarenteed job in my opinion.
19:57 < kanzure> so the pilot hit the promega building
19:57 < skyLotus> hmm
19:58 < kanzure> and then crashed into a fedex truck (fedex driver was out of the vehicle for delivery)
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19:58 < jonathan___> wow
19:58 < kanzure> http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2013/06/24/2558918/plane-hits-fedex-truck-slo.html
19:58 < kanzure> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/24/california-plane-hits-fedex-truck/2453871/
19:58 < skyLotus> Yeah, my whole life I've been really interested in computers. When I look at the list of topics for a CS / CE major I know a great deal about most of the topics but, I don't really think I want to pursue it as my major
19:58 < kanzure> skyLotus: don't go to college
19:59 < kanzure> skyLotus: do you do any programming right now?
19:59 < jonathan___> mutant promega organisms are runnign wild right now
19:59 < kanzure> jonathan___: maybe promega prices will go down!
19:59 < kanzure> wouldn't that be wonderful
19:59 < skyLotus> I'm working on it, I never fully learned a programming language properly till now, almost done learning java and then I can get into programming real apps with it
20:00 < kanzure> what country?
20:00 < skyLotus> I kind of just know a little about everything when it comes to computers
20:00 < skyLotus> US
20:01 < kanzure> where in the US?
20:01 < jonathan___> "java" != "real apps"
20:01 < skyLotus> In the midwest currently
20:02 < kanzure> midwest is not the best place for software employment
20:02 < skyLotus> Well, it's what I'm learning atm
20:02 < kanzure> especially for someone with no experience
20:02 < kanzure> i don't recommend starting with java
20:02 < skyLotus> yeah I want to move to california eventually, but i'm not there yet
20:02 < jonathan___> python is a great 1st language
20:02 < kanzure> agreed
20:02 < skyLotus> Well java is the course I'm signed up for and so it's what im going to learn first
20:02 < jonathan___> or 2nd or 3rd even
20:02 < kanzure> don't bother with a course
20:03 < jonathan___> a couple software courses are good
20:03 < kanzure> you can learn over the internet by bugging angry irc people
20:03 < skyLotus> I've worked a little bit with python, java, c++ and a couple other programming languages
20:03 < jonathan___> just do all the homework and software on your own, refuse to work with a team, they'll just slow you down
20:03 < skyLotus> yeah, i'm taking an online course from udacity atm
20:04 < skyLotus> it's pretty good
20:04 < kanzure> jonathan___: "refuse to work with a team" is nice in theory, but in practice wont help someone with zero experience
20:04 < kanzure> jonathan___: i think working with a team of more experienced people is ok
20:04 < kanzure> skyLotus: i highly recommend not using udacity. their programming courses are sub-par.
20:04 < skyLotus> :\
20:04 < jonathan___> my team was my copy of K&R, lol
20:04 < kanzure> jonathan___: i have a friend that learned programming on udacity, but doesn't know the difference between return/print.
20:04 < ryankarason> i had no problem getting a cs job in the midwest
20:04 < kanzure> ryankarason: yeah, because nobody wants them
20:05 < kanzure> and they pay low
20:05 < skyLotus> Well I started learning programming when I was in 7th grade
20:05 < kanzure> skyLotus: too old
20:05 < ryankarason> i also agree don't go to college. plenty to learn about programming online
20:05 < kanzure> skyLotus: should have started when you were in the womb
20:05 < ryankarason> kanzure: i think it is getting better, but maybe my opinion is too biased.
20:05 < jonathan___> go to college but take a major like art or something
20:05 < kanzure> skyLotus: you can achieve a lot without classes
20:05 < ryankarason> i concur.
20:05 < skyLotus> so even though the course isn't the best it's okay because i have alot of knowledge from learning before and i'm getting through it now
20:05 < ryankarason> also, MIT open courseware
20:06 < kanzure> mit open courseware doesn't teach programming that well, either
20:06 < skyLotus> the thing is... without a course I haven't really got myself to learn programming
20:06 < kanzure> how about peer pressure?
20:06 < kanzure> or guilt
20:06 < skyLotus> i have so many other priorities
20:06 < kanzure> we can guilt you
20:06 < ryankarason> but as for programming langauges to learn, if you want to have fun; do Common Lisp.
20:06 < kanzure> jonathan___: my phone has no log of our call
20:06 < jonathan___> your problem is discipline, eh
20:06 < kanzure> jonathan___: i think something really broke on my end
20:06 < ryankarason> and school's don't teach discipline
20:07 < jonathan___> haha  totally nsa
20:07 < skyLotus> hey that would be nice, you guys can guilt me into finishing java and maybe working with it when I'm done with the course
20:07 < jonathan___> cia and kgb too
20:07 < skyLotus> it's not really discipline it's just other priorities
20:07  * ryankarason is starting to get curious what ya'll are talking about such that all the worlds goverment agencys are blocking it
20:07 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, it's significant.
20:07 < jonathan___> gradstudentbot: have you filed a patent yet
20:07 < gradstudentbot> I haven't written the abstract.
20:07 < ryankarason> skyLotus: maybe try to find a way to merge priorities
20:08 < jonathan___> Common Lisp, that is not useful at all
20:08 < kanzure> ryankarason: just normal business stuff, jonathan___ wanted the scoop on some things that aren't appropriate to dump into an irc channel
20:08 < jonathan___> I have never seen a recruiting ad that says "Must be Rockstar in Common Lisp"
20:08 < skyLotus> well, that's what I am doing I started to go to college and I decided to take a programming course
20:09 < skyLotus> anyway thats kind of beside the point
20:09 < ryankarason> kanzure: ah, that is sensible.
20:09 < skyLotus> I'm trying to decide what to major in
20:09 < kanzure> skyLotus: well, just know that you can achieve a lot without doing those things. programming is a great option. biology less so. you can do biology, but you should learn it through community college or as a hobby.
20:09 < ryankarason> jonathan___: i would agree, but learning lisp is about learning how to approach a program in new ways
20:09 < jonathan___> go with whatever major has the hottest girls.  It works for the majority of the population.
20:09 < ryankarason> and maybe major languages are starting to pull ideas from CL
20:09 < ryankarason> such as Java 8 is planning to introduce lambdas.
20:09 < kanzure> jonathan___: sadly, that's reasonably good advice. maybe some bachelors of arts degree program, in journalism or something.
20:10 < jonathan___> I would suggest that learning to program is done by hand assembling machine code. pbbbt
20:10 < kanzure> pbbbt == pffft?
20:10 < ryankarason> i really really want to learn more about biology
20:10 < ryankarason> and also about its merge with computer sciences
20:10 < jonathan___> pbbbbt is pffft but more spit lol
20:10 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/books
20:10 < ryankarason> thanks kanzure !
20:10 < kanzure> gradstudentbot: calculate the spit ratio
20:10 < gradstudentbot> I think I'm going to do industry.
20:11 < jonathan___> db/dt pbbbt = pffft
20:11 < ryankarason> i really enjoyed biology and chemistry in high school. just never had the opportunity to take much of them in college
20:11 < ryankarason> i need to see if there are any diybio groups in my area
20:11 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/groups
20:11 < skyLotus> I want to take biomedical engineering at school, I'm just not sure that's the right choice
20:12 < jonathan___> biochem eng is far superior to BIO from what I've seen
20:12 < jonathan___> there is no right choice except Highest Salary
20:12 < kanzure> jonathan___: right now biology labor is really really cheap, i'm trying to figure out how to take advantage of this
20:12 < jonathan___> "do what you love" is what your mom will say right after "don't worry you're a good looking man, to me"
20:13 < jonathan___> Highest Salary guy could end up doing the exact same work as the Lame Major guy, in the end, except with the obvious difference
20:14 < skyLotus> So do any of you do any diybio on your own?
20:14 < ryankarason> kanzure: :( no Ohio groups.
20:14 < jonathan___> find a way to get your college paid for, is another way
20:14 < skyLotus> I'm just not gonna worry about it right
20:14 < skyLotus> now
20:14 < skyLotus> I've got some plans how I'm getting college paid for
20:14 < skyLotus> I'm thinking of what to do with my future
20:14 < jonathan___> really? how?
20:14 < skyLotus> and this is just a major decision
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20:15 < ryankarason> Molecular Biology of the Gene: 404 error :(
20:15 < jonathan___> in college, where you go is often more important than what you go for
20:15 < kanzure> ryankarason: there's some ohio activity in toledo i think
20:15 < kanzure> ryankarason: possibly via mike grube
20:16 < skyLotus> jonathan____ careerwise or experiencewise?
20:17 < ryankarason> hrm, only 2.5 hrs
20:17 < jonathan___> venture capitalist wise
20:17 < ryankarason> i may have to inquire more
20:17 < kanzure> ryankarason: 2.5 hours is too far. where are you?
20:17 < ryankarason> i live in the Capitol
20:17 < ryankarason> columbus, you would think there would be some activity here
20:18 < kanzure> hold on.. thinking.
20:18 < kanzure> how about these people? http://columbusideafoundry.com/
20:18 < jonathan___> "research associate (molecular biology) $35k-$49k"
20:19 < skyLotus> Kanzure what do you use for bookmarking and saving websites?
20:19 < kanzure> that's actually on the high end for molecular biology
20:19 < jonathan___> "Senior Biological Scientist - University of Florida $35k - $52k"
20:19 < jonathan___> isn't that like... poverty level or something?
20:19 < kanzure> skyLotus: 1) memory, i force myself to type out urls by hand, 2) i wrote a custom flat-file bookmarking system, 3) i want to use http://pinboard.in/ eventually
20:19 < kanzure> jonathan___: yes
20:20 < yashgaroth> we biologists just learn to live without nonessentials
20:21 < jonathan___> the real BIO money is on kickstarter these days!   (rolls eyes)
20:21 < cogitokat> "Senior Biological Scientist - University of Florida $35k - $52k" No wonder everyone here is so grumpy.
20:21 < yashgaroth> between the glowing plant and the shitty EEG that got linked yesterday that raised 300k, I could totally bullshit my way to an early retirement in mexico
20:22 < skyLotus> pinboard looks nice, I've always thought of making a bookmarking system but I've got to learn programming first lol
20:26 < jonathan___> "Senior Software Architect in San Diego, CA	$104,000"
20:26 < ryankarason> columbus idea foundary seems really interesting. didn't notice anything about diybio but i did about many of topics i am interested in. classes seem a bit pricey, but very very intrigued none the eless
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20:27 < jonathan___> no wonder pharma has such a hard time, if good people won't go into the low paying major.
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20:28 < jonathan___> "Principal Dsp Engineer	$159,000"
20:35 < skyLotus> So you said that I don't need a degree if I go into programming?
20:36 < kanzure> you don't need a degree to do programming
20:36 < skyLotus> Do any you have any experience with getting programming work without a degree
20:37 < yashgaroth> yes he does
20:38 < skyLotus> how does that work? Do you just do your own projects and hope for something to be good enough for people to pay for it, or do you get a job?
20:39 < kanzure> you can do both, but the second one (get a job) is much more likely to work.
20:39 < kanzure> wtf, i was just on a phone call and mentioned phosphoric acid
20:40 < skyLotus> When applying to jobs do you just send them code of what you've already made and that's what they use to evaluate you?
20:40 < kanzure> and then i received spam selling phosphoric acid
20:40 < kanzure> (i get the weirdest spam)
20:40 < kanzure> but this seems to be extremely unlikely to be coincidence
20:40 < skyLotus> haha strange...
20:40 < kanzure> skyLotus: sort of. depending on who the company is, you show them a very specific example project or two.
20:41 < skyLotus> I see
20:41 < kanzure> skyLotus: for example, for a company in the bay area (like san francisco or mountain view), you would do a project in python/flask, python/django, ruby/rails, ruby/sinatra, javascript, something like that, to demonstrate your ability. then you would schedule an interview, where you would hear about the problems the company has, and then you get hired.
20:42 < kanzure> (you would intentionally show that project to each person you are talking with)
20:42 < skyLotus> that makes a whole lot of sense
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20:43 < skyLotus> Yeah I'm going to have to make a choice eventually what I end up doing
20:43 < ryankarason> my suggestion is to make a github account and publicly post and opensource your softwarez
20:43 < skyLotus> for me personally, I find it hard to really concentrate on one subject
20:44 < ryankarason> the cool thing about computer science is it is embedded in every subject
20:44 < skyLotus> I want to learn everything but it's not really possible
20:44 < ryankarason> or at least has the potential to be
20:44 < kanzure> ryankarason: no, they don't actually look at your github account. while it's true that you should make a git repository and put it on github, they wont actually look.
20:44 < ryankarason> kanzure: interesting.
20:44 < kanzure> ryankarason: i've gone through 50+ interviews and i can guarantee you that nobody looks at your github repos, no matter how many you have: http://github.com/kanzure
20:44 < ryankarason> interesting.
20:45 < kanzure> (the reason i go through those interviews is because i'm really picky)
20:45 < skyLotus> Kanzure how do you decide on a company to work for, are you interested in working in startups or in estalished companies?
20:45 < ryankarason> ah. makes sense to be
20:45 < ryankarason> it is *your* future.
20:46 < jonathan___> DSP engineer requires a fair degree of high level math which is very difficult to learn independently
20:46 < kanzure> skyLotus: i am interested in being paid, so i work for whoever pays me.
20:46 < ryankarason> i believe i have known people whom their github accnt has been look at by a company, but these were startups i believe
20:46 < kanzure> startups sometimes look, but not always
20:46 < ryankarason> $ is useful.
20:47 < ryankarason> kanzure: if you had to suggestion any one starter diybio book to purchase, could you?
20:47 < kanzure> no. don't buy books.
20:47 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/books
20:48 < jonathan___> "current protocols in molecular biology"
20:48 < kanzure> "current methods in molecular biology" is a larger series than current protocols, also worth it
20:51 < ryankarason> okay thanks
20:51 < gradstudentbot> I'm so doing industry.
20:52 < ryankarason> Moleculary Biology of the Gene link is broken.
20:52 < ryankarason> is there another source?
20:52 < jonathan___> I've gotten pings to interview from my Perl Robotics work
20:52 < jonathan___> that's clearly mentioned on my resume and linkedin
20:53 < jonathan___> although the last couple pings I got by recruiters thru linkedin, after acking their email and asking them specifics, they reply "send me your resume"... so I responded "Just copy & paste my linkedin profile, no one uses resumes anymore" ..... silence.  ha
20:54 < kanzure> jonathan___: what about transcriptic? have you considered them?
20:54 < kanzure> ryankarason: http://libgen.net/
20:55 < jonathan___> I'm only so-so interested in continnuing with the robotics work because it is lab oriented and I'd rather not have to go into a lab anymore
20:56 < jonathan___> Hodak sent me email long ago very eager to talk to me
20:57 < skyLotus> so you don't really recommend I learn java first, but let's say thats what I do. Do you have any recommendations what I should do after that?
20:57 < kanzure> hodak is probably in the "buckle down" phase while he gets revenues higher so he can pay for his engineering force
20:58 < kanzure> skyLotus: if you insist on java, then you should learn spring or jboss or something, whatever is hot in the java world. make sure you use maven or ant.
20:58 < kanzure> skyLotus: but other than that, you should use python, or even jython if you insist on java/jvm things. python is a great place to start.
20:58 < jonathan___> "According to an SEC filing, Zynga’s unsecured credit line has been cut from $1 billion to $200 million. Zynga also recently cut 18% of its staff. "   .... easy come easy go
20:58 < kanzure> jonathan___: yeah, they fired 500 people a few weeks ago
20:58 < cogitokat> If you learn python after java, it will make you feel really good and like you are cheating.
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20:59 < jonathan___> learn java then write cool plugins for libreoffice
20:59 < skyLotus> I think I will mostlikely learn python after java
20:59 < jonathan___> like, a paperbot plugin
20:59 < kanzure> haha who the hell wants to write for libreoffice, jeeze
20:59 < kanzure> that code base was not fun
20:59 < ryankarason> learn Clojure after Java:)
21:00 < jonathan___> learn objective c after java, then you can make money while you learn
21:00 < kanzure> you can get paid a reasonable wage in the mid-west as a java drone, but you can make more doing other things literally everywhere else
21:02 < skyLotus> well I'm pretty much locked in to learning java right now and learning java is better than learning no programming. If I want to continue after learning java python would be a good choice you think?
21:03 < ryankarason> what about Jython?
21:03 < skyLotus> should i get practice using for a while with java and then after a couple months do python?
21:03 < skyLotus> when will I know I'm ready
21:03 < kanzure> i think you should do python right now, like 5 minutes ago. it's really easy.
21:04 < ryankarason> http://www.jython.org/index.html
21:04 < ryankarason> :P~
21:04 < kanzure> ryankarason: i think jython might be a bad idea actually, i was sort of being sarcastic.. the jvm access is nice, but totally unnecessary.
21:04 < skyLotus> does anyone actually use jython for anything?
21:04 < ryankarason> i was talking to a man in industry that uses jython
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21:05 < ryankarason> but learning Python is useful if you want to contribute to the majority of open source projects
21:05 < kanzure> the majority of open source projects are not written in python.
21:05 < gradstudentbot> The paper was rejected.
21:05 < kanzure> there's a huge history of open source software written in 100s of other languages
21:05 < ryankarason> i personally enjoy studying many programming languages
21:06 < ryankarason> i suppose most of the people i personally know that do open source programming use python
21:06 < kanzure> skyLotus: yes i use jython sometimes. but not always. and not regularly.
21:06 < gradstudentbot> Friends don't let friends go to super school.
21:06 < kanzure> skyLotus: i would say about 0.1% of the time i use python, i use jython.
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21:07 < ryankarason> jvm does have its benefits. it is really interesting how many languages are starting to move over to being built on top of it
21:07 < skyLotus> Okay, well. I'm just going to learn what I'm learning. Probably not the best in the long run but I'll know for next time to become a bit more informed in what I'm doing.
21:08 < skyLotus> I'm going to stick around in this irc and stop in more often and you guys can hold my feet to the fire about learning it :)
21:08 < ryankarason> my personal thought about programming languages is highly dependent upon what i want to do with the language. if i was doing web development i would use Ruby, if i were doing fancy shell hacking, i use Python. if i were trying to enjoy myself i would use Common Lisp. if i were going to prototype something quickly, i would use Java.
21:09 < jonathan___> skyLotus what's your age?
21:09 < skyLotus> I'm 20
21:10 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, that's a really good question. I don't know, but I'll have to look into that.
21:10 < jonathan___> If I were writing any code that is not dependent on cpu usage or a GUI, I would use python pretty much period.
21:10 < kanzure> yup
21:10 < kanzure> java is worth knowing eventually, but a 20 year old isn't going to get hired for java chops, he's going to get hired for python chops
21:10 < ryankarason> interesting. i personally don't write any python.
21:11 < ryankarason> but i can read it.
21:11 < kanzure> well, ruby is also an acceptable replacement in my sentence
21:11 < skyLotus> why what makes the difference in being hired for one language over another?
21:11 < kanzure> except ruby isn't fun to read
21:11 < gradstudentbot> Can I defend with just one aim done?
21:12 < kanzure> skyLotus: there is market demand for skills in different languages. i know it sounds stupid, but that's the way the world ticks right now.
21:12 < ryankarason> right, you need to find out what industry is using.
21:12 < ryankarason> those from my experience they seem to do alot of Java and C#
21:12 < kanzure> C# is pretty much mid-west only :)
21:12 < skyLotus> I really don't know much aout how the industry looks and it's something I should learn to get better at
21:12 < ryankarason> ah that is interesting
21:12 < kanzure> oh also seattle does lots of C#
21:13 < ryankarason> i am also told if you want to make good money
21:13 < ryankarason> learn Cobol
21:13 < ryankarason> because a lot of legacy systems use it and are in dire need of being convereted
21:13 < kanzure> skyLotus: i started a survey about that, you should read the comments here.. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5802295
21:13 < kanzure> jonathan___: you might be interested in that link too
21:15 < gradstudentbot> Uh, interesting question.
21:17 < skyLotus> how is that poll related to what I said?
21:17 < kanzure> "I really don't know much aout how the industry looks"
21:17 < kanzure> so i gave you some data
21:17 < skyLotus> ah i see thanks
21:18 < skyLotus> what I meant was like what languages are popular, what are they used for, what kind of programs are being worked on. I'm clueless on all of that. I just know some basic programming concepts but never applied it to real work
21:19 < kanzure> top languages- https://github.com/languages
21:19 < kanzure> popular projects- https://github.com/repositories
21:20 < skyLotus> that's really useful I'm going to have to get more familiar with github
21:21 < kanzure> here's some work i have up on github, https://github.com/kanzure
21:21 < jonathan___> C# and java are the same language, just depends if you hate microsoft then avoid C# that's all
21:22 < jonathan___> c and objective c are near the same language, just depends if you love apple the learn obj c that's all
21:22 < skyLotus> Is knowing assembly useful jobwise?
21:22 < jonathan___> if you do hardware related projects, yes
21:23 < jonathan___> there are still good jobs in assembly language dsp programming for some algorithms
21:23 < jonathan___> or kernel startup code
21:23 < jonathan___> or graphics accelleration
21:24 < skyLotus> okay that's good to know, I always just saw it useful for gamehacking never knew it could be good for other things
21:24 < skyLotus> how old are you guys?
21:24 < jonathan___> I don't age
21:24 < skyLotus> pfft
21:25 < jonathan___> I want to get into this range 160k-169k
21:25 < skyLotus> have you been coding for a long time?
21:25 < jonathan___> I have been coding since age 6
21:25 < jonathan___> in 7th grade I was writing assembly language
21:26 < jonathan___> hand assembled from opcodes
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21:26 < jonathan___> it's fairly common
21:26 < skyLotus> yeah
21:27 < jonathan___> i wrote a complete social networking site in 8th grade
21:27 < skyLotus> seems that way
21:27 < jonathan___> in this language, what was it called, acos I think
21:27 < skyLotus> your really bad at coding
21:27 < jonathan___> not dissimilar to python
21:27 < kanzure> skyLotus: i am 23
21:27 < skyLotus> but i've got nothing against you
21:29 < skyLotus> I'll know java by the end of summer
21:29 < jonathan___> ah, here's some random link of acos.  wow crazy http://shootingstarbbs.kicks-ass.net/files/Apple_II/ACOS%20BBS%20Code/ROBBING.SEG.S.TXT
21:31 < jonathan___> damn zuckerburg was late to the party, we had it all set up way before he got on the scene LOL
21:31 < jonathan___> hey, the best business is one in which people are physically addicted to the product.
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21:38 < jonathan___> Pharmacokinetics and Phenomenology of Inhaled Salvinorin A in Humans  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKVYzytVpFc
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21:44 < jonathan___> facebook is apparently very addictive to humanity
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22:05 < jonathan___> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21131142
22:05 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/d5c0de2fd5fb19c23713c6bd6b4ec6.txt
22:06 < jonathan___> doh that's a free pub.. yet paperbot got stuck
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22:47 < kanzure> ncbi often doesn't have a pdf link
22:57 < sivoais> but it does if you follow to PMC. Might be useful to have that as a special case since it is so common in certain fields
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23:09 < kanzure> sivoais: submit a bug report or a patch, https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot
23:09 < skyLotus> Thanks for the help today guys
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23:33 < kanzure> oh look someone bothered to type The Wild
23:33 < kanzure> http://worldtracker.org/media/library/English%20Literature/Z/Zindell,%20David/David%20Zindell%20-%20RfHS%202%20-%20The%20Wild.pdf
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23:34 < kanzure> oh, they don't have the last one. lame.
23:37 < kanzure> sivoais: thanks
23:37 < sivoais> no problem
23:49 -!- zkirill [~zkirill@S01060023beda510e.vn.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
--- Log closed Tue Jun 25 00:00:06 2013